To me personally, the NPC to player strength ratio is the issue with retail. I don’t want to press one button and kill 40 mobs around me. That’s what Diablo is for.
It’s not complicated, people just don’t like being lied too and don’t like lazy devs. Sod was sold as a completed seasonal server with them even saying at their announcement of it that they had “nearly finished” their lvl 60 content. Only after it became blatantly obvious it was a WiP did they sing a totally different tune and say “oh lawl guys this is a beta test didn’t you know?” So I’m paying them to test an unfinished product? That’s a scam. They also haven’t done anything new. They stole the work of WotLK devs, called 15 year old abilities “new” and then proceeded to not release any new content minus 1 terrible dungeon and an even worse raid boss. No one cares about BWL, ZG, AQ or Naxx. We came to sod to play new content and after paying them for a year now and not having any new content it’s pretty hard to trust anything they say in the future. Just like destiny 2, when the lies come to light the player base plummets. You can see it in the phase 3 week they said “this is a test” nearly a 60% drop in raiders. It’s 100% bullshit and the classic devs should 100% get new jobs where they do t feel the need to lie to their paying customers
I to went back to playing retail after playing SoD for a few phases. What SoD showed me is that the "classic" dev team has no idea what makes people enjoy classic at all. They way they treated TBC, Wrath, and now Cata by pumping cash shop bullshit into it showed they don't care and just wanted to bleed your bank account. Then SoD was supposed to be a fun twist on classic but just ended up being a shittier version of retail. I have zero faith that anyone on that team will be able to make a truly classic+ server. The only thing they did that was good was hardcore servers and that was to piggy back off the addon. The only people who seem to understand what classic+ should be is the team behind Turtle.
I'm sorry but a lot of the class changes in SoD are just objectively good for the game. If you genuinely like pressing frostbolt over and over again, you're insane. Turtle WoW added lots of cool zones and dungeons which is awesome, but they have done practically zero class changes and everything remains the same. Vanilla is NOT a perfect game. SoD gameplay is infinitely more engaging with these changes for every single class. The only problem is runes not being tied to talents, and also runes that completely go against class fantasy like mage healing mechanics.
Hit the nail on the head -- I'm glad some people enjoy SOD, but I agree it's more like retail than classic with a twist, and that's just not what many of us are looking for. It doesn't feel like classic to me with demon form tanking warlocks, mages healing, and the myriad of other changes that are antithetical to classic.
i just started playing SOD for the first time, it took me about 1.5 days play time to hit 60 and get all my runes with the XP buff and guides, wasn't bad at all and having a lot of fun. Also there are a ton of people leveling in the world now, especially with the mega servers. My friends and I are are specifically coming to try SOD because of BWL phase.
@markblaze4909 leveling is the absolute most boring thing to do in all versions of wow. I don't want to grind for a month just to get to max lvl just because some no life thinks it should take forever. Most adults can't play 10 hours a day or more
The fact that leveling to 60 and getting all runes took you 1.5 days and you present that as a positive really shows what a huge devide there is between the average vanilla enjoyer and the SoD Playerbase. Completely different Players with completely different expectations
I agree. Classic+ needs to be much more closer to era than sod/retail. Minor tweaks and more content is really all it needs. Vanilla is near perfect the way it is
No, it's not, not even close. And minor tweaks won't fix all the specs that aren't viable at all. Forcing Druids, Shamans, All priests and paladins to go healer if they want to raid is not near perfect game design.
@@adjacent-smith 25 fury warriors in 1 raid.... Classic is not perfect at ALL and so many changes in sod were very good for the game, objectively. Hybrid dps specs being playable is a very good thing for the game. A lot of the runes and changes added in sod NEED to be added to classic+. They just need to be tuned properly, tied to talents, and still go with the class fantasy of each class.
All Warriors is a player problem. Also, the tier sets are catchup gear for people that don't have bis dungeon sets and gear that are otherwise unavailable to hybrid dps specs (and resto since shaman has access to tons of other gear)
I respectfully disagree. This theoretical wow experience with the classic leveling experience exists in wow classic, and per your report it has 10% of the population of SOD. SOD's key attractions are new spells, class balances, new content and a non decaying pvp system. SOD is only in a bad place because of the period between phases 3 and 4 where there was no content because the dev team prioritized retail. A lot of the population issues are tied to SOD not being as alt friendly in the later phases, so fewer characters are raiding. I am sure if the numbers were analyzed by the account in lieu of by the character the drop off wouldn't seem as drastic.
I personally loved the complexity of being able to have multiple pieces of gear with different runes giving me the option to just do a quick gear swap when combat drops to have a different rune. Like on my Mage for example being able to gear swap to a pair of boots I think it was to Chrono heal up after combat (in a BG or pvp environment). And then swapping back to my other piece of gear after I healed up.
I think it says a lot when in the phase 3 developer presentation they said they didn't want 40 man raids because it would be popcorn and beer content..or something along those lines. Isn't that why we're playing classic? To invite friends no matter their skill level.. relax and just have fun killing bosses & getting loot? That's why I play classic at least! I agree with a lot of your points! It being seasonal turned a lot of my friends off in addition to all the "bis" specs changing every phase for a few classes! My gang just got tired of it & is now playing retail.
I decided to try new alts on SoD, but the leveling experience has been completely ruined by the crazy xp rate boosts. You can't finish a quest chain without it going gray, which means you're missing a lot of gear upgrades in between dungeons.
I have found this outside of SoD too. Anytime they add things like "double XP weekend" I actively avoid playing, because I want to play the game properly.
I feel like once the novelty wore off (roughly the tail end of ph2), having to discover runes wasn't fun and very much felt like pointless content. As well, I agree it's a MAJOR barrier to entry for alts. Almost as annoying as re-obtaining your TBC attunements. I feel like the 3 best possible answers are: 1, once you hit each bracket (25/40/50/60), you unlock all the runes in that bracket for every character on your account. 2, once you hit 60, you unlock all runes for all characters on your account. 3, all runes are just unlocked from the start even as a fresh account. No particular order. Each has positives/negatives. But at least it would increase the value of repeating content so that the main focus can just be leveling. I do think they really didn't add much "new quests" like they originally stated was going to be a goal. Sure it's nice to have more exp boosts so you don't have to sit in a zone for too long, but why not just add more quests too? It feels like much of the 1-59 content is still not fully fleshed out, and there wasn't much new content in that regard. I just hope they don't can SoD because numbers aren't looking good due to issues that are fixable as long as people would contribute and Blizzard will listen. Those two stars have to align, or else we can scream from the mountaintops and Blizzard won't listen, or vice versa Blizzard will just give up if they keep trying and just get shit on each time.
I quit during phase two. I had a blast during season one. Season two went from being pug friendly to requiring a guild. I switched over to live and am much happier. The raids are harder but you can pug heroics at your own pace. The lock outs are awesome, only being locked to a boss is great.
everyone has their own opinion i enjoy the crazy changes, who wants to spam 2 buttons again for 2 years straight, that's exactly the reason SOM was going down aswell. Less changes won't fix the issue
@9:37 The biggest point about SOD. I've described SOD to classic friends as "Retail in classic clothing". SOD isn't for classic players. Runes at least are keeping players in the world, shouldn't change that.
I stopped playing SoD mainly because I felt there wasn't enough changes. Maybe I've been spoiled with Retail, but I was hoping for multi targetting mobs you know.. Less competition to get quests done?
Agreed, I enjoyed the level capping and everyone all being in the same ballpark. The changes were nice change of pace things, a few weird but interesting things like mage healer and warlock tank. I think it out paced me, I like enjoying the world and questing and next thing I knew I was a part behind people
Have to heavily disagree with the take that SoD is closer to retail, its closer to Wrath or Cata Classic - retails major issue and almost complete focus is Seasonal resets. Having to do the same mythics all over again for the same gear just do it again in a few months for a better ilvl is not my jam, and while theyve mitigated it somewhat by rotating the mythics, its still content ive done endlessly before. It completely falls apart when I can leave the game for a year, come back, do a patch quest line and be more geared than probably if I stayed around. I enjoy the game and some of that, but not enough to do it at the level where I'd keep enjoying it. Classic and SoD doesnt have that, and while catchup and mechanisms to ease back in are fine, things like above are the main reason I'll never do retail to the same scale or content level I'd do in classic. My main put offs for SoD is A) its "progressed" (its never too late, but its a perspective, and i bit the bullet and came back, world was quite busy before the merge, even more now.) and b) having to do content no-one is doing very often for rune acquirement, somewhat fixed for things like wild gods, but not for others. The real truth will come and in what they do with the data and feedback they get from SoD moving forward. I hope they do a spin on it for Classic+, just as I hope we get another series of progression from classic onwards. As an aside: enjoy your content and its been going strong recently, keep it up!
You talked about retail and i just honestly think retail will never really convince classic players to hop over and fully start spending their precious time in that version of the game. I've played classic since 2019 on release day, and just looking at retail "gives me the ick". Just the basic things like graphics, artwork, animations and how everything has just been modernized to cater towards a younger audience is a big turnoff for me. The "dragon" mounts implemented with dragonflight, what even are those? Look at them, they look like something straight outta cartoon network. Group finders, making the game a lobby simulator. I literally logged on 2 days before TWW launch and stormwind city was empty. Wheres all the people? There is no feeling of MMO and it really turns alot of people off including myself.
I think you are absolutely correct about all that you say, and I really hope that when they do classic plus they do small changes with the talents and spells so maybe your not just spamming one spell. And keep the leveling speed true to vanilla I feel is the most important thing or it will not have the feeling and you miss so much of the content.
You are spot on. SoD is miles away from vanilla and therefor mostly draws people that dont care for the vanilla experience. These people in turn are not used to a strong social fabric necessary to do 40 man raids, thats why SoD raiding falls apart beyond 10 players. They are used to the single player experience retail provides. Blizzard should try to split the playerbase. they should do wow classic on one side with vanilla, tbc, wrath and somethin like wow a new beginning where they take vanilla as a starting point and do all the changes they and the SoD/classic+ community desires.
4:00 I do agree but I also know there's a lot of players that like the endgame. In classic 2019 the endgame was ok and I really didn't want to do it again because it's the most tedious version of raiding to have ever existed. SoD fixed this and now I'm looking forward to raiding and gearing. To me the slow leveling puts me off. I like the world but I've done it so many times now that I just want a bit more smooth sailing to cap.
On one hand i like the phase concept becuase it slowed down the progression. On the other hand, the phases is like mini expansions every few months. All the time i put in raiding with my guild to gear up becomes pointless as there was the rush to the next end mini end game. They did the same with retail with the seasons. It just never bothered me with retail because I haven't raided there since Wrath.
I missed most of phase 3 and 4, and I'm totally confused. I just hit 60, and I'm kind of lost. A lot of research had to be done, and I'm nowhere near buying my epic mount. That's probably my fault for leveling just with classic vanilla quests all the way to 60 but still. Game is in a weird spot
That's why phase one was so hype. I had 6 alts all leveled and geared in less than a week. No one wants to level 1-60 for the millionth time no matter how many new spells you add.
I mostly agree besides the fact that the majority of the player base just wants to raidlog. The reason the world remained active during classic vanilla was because you couldnt boon your world buffs so people made alts to enjoy the day to day stuff while their mains were just stuffed away with all possible world buffs. The real content at the time as an alliance player was finding ways to get horde world buffs, summons, world boss preparation and degen the hell out of the game. I feel if classic plus has too much focus on the journey it will die out as fast as every hardcore hype. High peaks, deep lows. Blizzard currently is just plugging holes in 4 different versions of the game to keep us subscribed. Imo leave era as it is, kill cata/mop classic once classic plus releases and just focus on classic plus and retail
I’ve played off and on for years including original release.. had quit most recently 7months ago as wotlk ended. The earlier sod stages didn’t entice me till I saw MC again and got the itch. So not long ago I made a pally for the first time and it took 5 long ingame days to hit max level. Not knowing about runes I routinely skipped important ones doing less dmg for levels until rectifying. I’m still catching up on runes to be more viable to raid. That being said.. I’ll have basically full t1 waiting once I get in guild run. It’s a loooota shit to catch up on. It’s the old classic rep grind + rune shit that really makes the barrier to enter substantial.
I don't like the focus on end game, I like taking my time to level and quest in the world. Stopped playing SOD after the stupid incursion garbage, finished the incursion rep grind, logged out and never logged back in.
Agreed my dude. Seasons and classic don’t mix. I personally dislike seasonal content - wow wasn’t meant to be seasonal - but I play it anyway because I love classic and the prospect of a solid classic+ perm
Give me your hot take on what a perfect Classic+ looks like. Talents, zones, questlines finished or added, keeping the main character the world alive and more so than prior versions of wow, etc.
I’ll give me take. I think classic + should be vanilla wow with minor class tweaks to certain underperforming skills and specs. For example: give enchantment shaman dual wield and give hunters steady shot. Provide horizontal progression rather than vertical progression. Upgrade underused world zones and add quests. Maybe tweak some blues and epics that suck. Improve professions. Add a profession and add 1 race per faction.
No gold buying. Not gold selling. No boosting. Slower xp gains. Remove dungeon spam to level. Add diminish returns on types of leveling. No complete throttles but dr is really needed. Problem are the players. Get the bad ones to quit
I remember in the beginning agrand saying he didn’t want to make retail minus and that’s exactly what they did . I actually really like sod and will ride it out to the end it was a great experience. But am I disappointed in the result . Absolutely
give all runes from the start but cut the 300% xp gain at this point and it will make lvling better, but this alone won`t solve all the problems, raids should be 10 man everybody liked that including me and it`s clear that going in p3 with st 20 man killed many guilds and a lot of players quit sod and wow entirely, from all my friends i`m the only one still hanging around
For me the thing the led me to quit was the runes and how you couldnt get some of them on your own, and NOONE is helpful. And the runes for priest was the most frustrating thing ever, having to have all those buffs to learn the runes, like wtf?!
I played sod until p2, could not deal with 20man raids as a guild officer. we disbanded and almost everyone stopped playing. We prefer classic to retail mainly because of the slower and heavier pace gameplay in every aspect of the game questing, dundeons, raids, pvp. We did enjoy the new spells and class reworks of course but we hated the rune system (they could use that for class quests!) , the copy pasta content and this phase leveling that killed the hype for a lot of people, raid logging at 40 and even 25 is not fun at all and stops and kills the hype train. Many members after raid logging at 25 did not come back for anything. Its like taking your plate away while youre eating and giving it back 2 hours later... now you eat it My hope for Classic+ is still the same as it was before sod, same game with improvements like guild bank, ui edit mode, lfg board, some spec reworks, completed zoned, new raids after naxx, even adding archeology, jewelcrafting and sockets to gear and lowering 40/20 man to 10/15. The classic player base is older and can not maintain playing schedules like we used to. The only thing about retail I prefer is the lower player number raids and its replayable content. If they can add that to classic+... That said, I have absolutely zero faith in these devs. All events they added, either were bugged or sucked balls
Like the videos generally. But this one, i'm not sure what to take from it. Play retail? Sounds a little like complaining to complain. Do you have any other suggestion that Blizz could do with SoD other than be more like classic? ❤
i want some spells for classes that need help but i want like a lot more mini dungeons and mini raids while we level as well as have level cap so we can more of a slow journey exp so 3 patches at 25 but add more raids and dungeons so we can be more into playing the game also add better faster flightpaths or train like travel systems.
The 40 man idea seems like an epic journey but it is so dog water in reality. Organizing all of it and keeping 40 people happy is an absolute chore and full time job, if you are doing it well. The change to 20 mans killed so many 10 man groups due to the need of organized labor.
I agree with your takes in the video. Season of discovery is too far removed from how vanilla feels and plays. The classes are too powerful with too many/wrong abilities. It’s too end game/raiding focused rather than focusing on the 1-60 journey that sets vanilla apart from other versions of the game. Sod doesn’t cater to the core classic fan base which is why classic as a whole feels dead right now
I actually somewhat disagree. Leveling is fun, but end game is what’s truly important. Getting to max level and fighting the hardest content and gearing up and feeling good/powerful is what’s important to me. Having the open world feel alive is very important; I agree. But that’s lower on the totem pole, for me. SoD is actually the most fun I’ve had in WoW since at LEAST Legion. Maybe more, to be honest. However; I actually agreed with the phases. It forced players to experience other content before slamming into end game. Yes, end game is the most important in my opinion. But experiencing the entirety of the game is also important too.
I love SOD! I just think SOD opened up my mind to retail and now I'm stuck on retail and I'm not sure I want to go back. I'm having a blast doing M+ and grinding up keys for the very first time. I just don't think I want to go back to any kind of classic anymore and that's okay. I'll still have my memories of SOD and classic to look fondly on.
I agree about leveling. I dont agree about that 20 man raids is problem of SOD. There is small guilds also. As countent creator you always will get raid full easy, but some people it is hard to get 40man full. I would like as aption 40/25/10 whatever but as option that you can choose. About spells I dont agree. I want every class spec usable in game in pve and pvp also. Paladins as tanks, shadow priest as dps(not only 1 in raid), feral druids as dps and more. I dont want to see mage healer, warlock tank, rogue tank. Thats too much. I dont want to classic plus be classic. Thats my opinion. And ofc this is seasonal after 1 year there will not be so much people leveling I think its just understable. I agree that Classic plus need to be progresive and lasting server where is new raids, dungeouns, new bgs, new zones and more...
they are not even capable to copy well private server turtle wow XD , ppl ask classic + they give us retail and not every player is pve leveling andy theres many pvpers in classic, they abandoned PvP in SoD.
The wow population is stagnant no new wow players, and blizz keeps splitting the playerbase with different versions. Fresh severs of anything old will fall of a cliff a month after launch.
everyone keeps saying "because it's seasonal no one wants to invest time" yet everyone when playing on P servers couldn't wait when it was time to have a reset or a new server was going to launch. I think it was shobek that hit the nail on the head. The entire world needs to feel alive at almost every level. Leveling needs to be the single biggest time sink to do that. You need to allow people to take a break for a week/month etc. come back and be able to pick up where they left off and still feel like people are doing the same things.
I stopped in phase 2 because I hated leveling and everyone was in rush mode with dungeon grinds. Also the fact it wouldn't be around forever and since I half expect Classic+ to come, I thought catch up time along everything going away eventually kept me from coming back.
It’s a seasonal service. If you didn’t join from the beginning, you’ve lost out on 80% of the content, and I think that’s ok. It’s the same with any other seasonal server in other games. I don’t think blizzard is going to do more to get new players into SOD, besides the buffs to exp gains. And I think that’s ok
No, I just chill during raid. I don’t meta, I don’t log, don’t care about parses. I enjoy the alts. I’ve tried retail twice since WW launched, it’s just messy. The screen is a mess, the pace and rotations are like a spazzing seizure. Wont be coming to retail.
So I’ll be honest started to top my Fishing up and I do see lots of 30-40 lvl characters in the world I don’t think there is even issue with getting people to do sunken or any other low lvl raid. Sods skills and specs make sense so I want them to be tuned down a bit yes do I want every spec to perform yes!! Absolutely love that there is more then Paladin healer and warrior tank. Playing sod and will play till it dies. Remember TWW took a lot of players a lot in both guild that I play took list 20 people so Iam not sure if it’s SODs issue at the end of the story for blizzard it’s win and for us for having all that content to explore it’s a win!! I like SOD that I know what I will do for next week or so retail it’s absolute Chaos there is so many way to do stuff that Iam overwhelmed. Not including 10000000 toys that effects your gameplay. I do love Retail and what they doing with it but its not made for players like me.
blizzard showed their lack of understanding when they made phase 3, until then i wouldnt say it was too complicated. not worth playing after phase 3 anyways. runes werent a problem in phase 1 or 2 when there were only so many, and looking back at it, it was a dumb cheesy way to add new spells and abilities in the game, it wasnt at all what a classic plus test should have been.
What did you mean by p4 being lower than p3? I wanted to ask first before I came with the numbers just for you to tell me thats just your opinion that its worse than the lowest state of p3 or something lol
they base this off of a site that only counts the players logging their parses. I came back to sod recently and expected based on what is being said online to see empty citys and zones. this was not the case at all.
My takes on SoD 1) Classic andies expect and compare SoD to Classic. It isnt classic, yes the content is in classic raids/content, It should be fast as possible to get 60. Its new thing with runes/specs. people should be able to test as much as possible multiple alts. 2) Bind of Account attunements/Items are super good. Im fine if u have to do it once on your main. 3) What I really hate is SoD is we have to do Molten Core - Naxxramas. nobody wants it. It keeps dieing out phase after phase until they give us actually custom content like Karazhan etc. NGL the leveling up raids were fun, because they had custom tactics and everything. 4) Im not against or support GDKPs, but i sadly feel GDKP killed atleast 40%+ player base in SoD aswell if we watch charts. P1 was 400K active players now its like 50K 5) Also Server transfer was totally useless for PvE servers. Example they closed char creation Wild Growth-EU and made PvE to PvE and EU has only 1 PvE server. Ratio is 3:1 Ally to Horde in this server. We are bleeding out on recruiting. Really hope they open PvP to PvE. 6) Level 60 content raids they just copy-paste pretty much SoM tactics. Molten Core H1-H3 was pretty much 90% same you just needed Fire resistance and now BWL to do hardest content you need Black + 2 random colour affixes to get more loot, woulda been more intersting if u need to activate actually ALL affixes. Pretty sure AQ/Naxx wont be that much diffrence just hope to get into Karazhan asap. 7) Hopefully they make Hyjal open zone and some kind of raid/dungeons into it, Azshara open world pvp event etc. 8) World buffs should be gonne, sure its easy to get them u spend 30min to get all of them, but it feels so punishing if u lose them in raid and you lose 40% of your DPS nothing to do with skillwise. + Melees having chicken buffs. Either make scrolls like PTR u can apply world buffs or delete them completly and give mages mini version of Bloodlust 15% haste for 20 seconds or sth.
I think they should make the game more casual, with higher XP/honor, 10-man raid max, etc... Casual players are always the majority of players... I'm playing all 3 versions, Sod, Cata, and retail, and Sod is the one I play less because it is not very friendly to casual players...
The classic community fought tooth and nail for a WoW product tailored to their needs, and now all the casuals come and try to make it theirs like all the other versions. It's not meant for you, and I think Blizzard is sorely letting the target audience down with SoD. It's way too casual and borrows too much from retail.
@@Forty2de There are normal vanilla servers and 1 life serves; both version are cleary not for casual players, if they want casual players playing vanilla they need to make a casual version is that simple... Not making a casual version of vanilla push away all casual players they may like vanilla to private servers of vanilla... I love playing on retro wow, best gear selling for gold+5man raid=amazing, imagine something like that on a bliz server...
@@Forty2de I think vanilla is the most ''magic'' version of Wow, but the biggest fail is that it's not casual friendly; if they make stuff more ''puggable'' and easy for casual players, that would massively increase the number of players playing it. I always thought Wow should have two versions, one for casual players and one for try-hard players; no reason for only one type of server making the other type of player quit. That's why I always love for-fun private servers.
@@jacque3427 You can keep the same felling of gameplay of vanilla but just make easy to find a group/get gear, i'm not saying to break the game to put lfg tools, fly mounts or any of that crap.... The change of how honor/pvp rank is amazing, now anyone have a chance to rank up, before that only premades would make enough honor. They could make raid easy, less player is one thing that would help a lot, maybe remove the need to all extra stuff, etc, make pug hard stuff possible. Personal loot would be another thing that would help the casual player a lot and so on. You want try-hard gameplay play normal server, everyone else can have fun on a second version of classic.
P4 was a blast but I’ve dropped off to play retail. They are just re-hashing the same old content with minor changes Doesn’t feel like there’s a fraction of the hype for the P5 if they aren’t going to make new content.
Nope, me and a lot of people I knew that played it stopped once the jump through hoops to get runes was fun which I think was early season two the whole turbo shredder crap. Never went back. The only reason to play SoD is the new runes. If it’s a massive pain in the ass I’m not playing it. This isn’t a piece of gear, this is base character class skills that they made a royal pain in the ass to get. Dumb ass system. Moronic out of touch devs.
True. But they can fix it. Remove boosting. Remove dungeon apam. Crack down on gold selling and buying. Make content harder with high penalties for death to slow down game play. And get douches to quit
My biggest thing preventing me from coming back to SoD is the uncertainty of how much longer it will last and then not knowing exactly what is going to happen with our characters. It seems like it’s not worth putting time into it anymore because Classic+ will just replace it some day
Sweet I get sod ,classic and classic+ because i was there and jumped in and lived it I quit durring wrath moving upwards and came back for sod until classic+ I hope
You have to view something that's seasonal almost like a really long campaign mode. Once it's over it's over but that doesn't mean it was a waste of time. You (hopefully) had fun while playing, and that's not a waste of time
It's really about knowing what your goals are. SoD gives another opportunity for people to do things they never did before in classic and want to do, like hitting a certain rank in pvp, going to raids they missed before, trying different classes in raids, etc. You of course also have classic era being a great place to hit these goals as well, although SoD makes things a little easier in my opinion. Like, if you ever wanted to raid as a balance druid, shadow priest, shaman tank, etc., SoD is perfect for you. Both SoD and classic era are not going to last forever though, life continues on. Just take a moment to find out truly what you want to achieve from this game so you don't regret it in the future as who knows what truly comes next. I went back to classic era last year because I never got to raid AQ20, AQ40 and naxx and loved achieving those goals. I now have some new goals in SoD, some that I achieved, others still ongoing. One of the fun things for me was doing the 0.5 questline (I know some don't like it, but it was fun to experience for me!)
To be fair WoW has always been in a constant state of change. We’ve always had fun with what was fun at that time, then hopped to the fun new thing when it came. Which is exactly how SoD will end one day. And by that time you’ll be enjoying the new thing too much to care that SoD is over
GIVE WARRIORS A TITAN GRIP RUNE. Also, there's seems to be cognitive dissonance with the classic community. You said at the start that people enjoy leveling and all that in era. But also stated that people are still doing raids in era as well. Aren't those raiding guilds keeping era alive and not the people who just level? As you said casuals don't reach max for like 8 months. So the hardcore raiding guilds are keeping the servers alive? Or is it the leveling? (I play all iterations of WoW BTW except Cata)
Great points Hammer 🔒It's something I mentioned as well, seasonal in my opinion doesn't work cause players don't know exactly were there character will go, and even if there's direction they feel the grind is pointless since the hype after it's all done is not worth the long haul investments, we had similar issues happen in SOM. Now you can say it's just to enjoy the journey while it lasts and I don't disagree with that, but nowadays people want things to last rather than phase out, thus leading to the topic at hand which a lot of people I see now are discussing. Once again just my take, I'm not always correct but I am passionate on how I feel for the future of WoW & I still will be rocking with Season of Discovery regardless.
It's not a different type of player. The 20 person raid content in SOD was much harder than the 40 person raid content in classic (MC, even BWL). That's why guilds fell apart. This is no different from era. Population in classic drops like a rock for AQ because it's hard. Most classic players want a "beer and pretzel" experience, which is why SOD is not going to satisfy that crowd. There is simply too much going on to appeal to those players. Phase 1 was already pushing things. Everything that came ofter was simply overkill.
The problem with sod is that very few people are leveling now because everyone doing the level 60 stuff. So if you just come to it now the leveling is pretty dull. There's no one doing the leveling dungeons except for DM and SM. I never see people posting in LFG for Ulda, RFD, ZF, or Mara. Also, SoD pvp has always been completely broken and at this point it's unsalvagable. Too many overpowered rune abilities in the game.
No what happened with SoD is, world pvp is worthless and nothing but a gank fest. You cannot attack cities as you are punished for it still since you lose honor from Civs kills (which happens), and the leveling boost was needed due to players falling off due to nothing really to do. It's not fun to have your higher level friend carry you around to all your "required" runes to play the spec you want and spend hours on end to see there is nothing at end game. Raids, dungeons that don't matter and overplayed BGs since the start of time.
The seasonal model is antithetical to classics design. That being said what has truly ruined classic wow is the community’s approach to the game. Meta gaming & min/maxing has warped peoples outlook on the game for the worse. Unless they can reverse this, it will never be even remotely as good as it once was.
I don't believe SOD is retail in that regards. I believe the community more at play here then you think. Not trying to hate or anything but I've played every xpac up to current and don't believe SOD is a retail Minus like everyone says. if you played during warlords up to Dragon lands you would have a massive different view of the game compared to where classic and retail is at currently. I think the classic community mindset has shifted so much and that they don't realize this honestly. yes we may get a fresh Hardcore or fresh wow but the same effect is going to happen again where it starts off strong and dies off.
Most people left SoD due to the gatekeeping by overly invested playerbase.. like braindead easy dungeons requiring group comps and specific specs and parsing for BFD..
@markblaze4909 it does though because it creates a perception bleeds into the entire game. The idea that you need the add-ons, buffs, consumables, pre-bis and all above all the concept that you can never fail. It ends up intimidating people into never trying raids or even _dungeons_
SoD has been popping off since the server merger. I have been finding lots of players in the world while leveling alts now. I hope we see classic+ realms soon after sod ends because i will not return to classic era with how good sod has been for me.
yes sod is annoying and my girlfriend cannot play it because its made for millenial kids with ahds and not classic. "discovering" runes is a fcn joke when there is no "bounty board" with hints and instead you have to go through malicious websites and addons. disgusting. even more disgusting to have mechanics that require addons. disgusting. disable all macro and addon support. thank you. plus as you say, they destroyed all classic content - professions are useless, and doing open world or do herbs, and everything, is useless. pretty sure they never wanted sod to be successful but good enough in a very short timespan to up their subscriptions on retail trash. and again, my girlfriend is not strong enough to kill green mobs in open world because the game doesn't event tell her to go to malicious websites to find out what runes are. edit since i wrote the comment before watching your video: exactly, it's more like retail than classic and that's the reason why it is f dog s and why we never play retail aswell. i wish they went to 40 player straight and remove that retail scum immediately. btw those "guilds" you speaking of which run when they need to organize more than 3 people at the same time and rather play singleplayer - are fk stpd because blizz +- promised us 40 raids and to dig in wirh your 3 homies and cry very loud on social media to prevent everyone who is 20yr+ age ro enjoy the game is so sad. ps: i really really hate the raids. it'a sweaty trash and my class plays awful and the loot is horrible compared to classic
Addons are what make the game good. I would never touch wow without addons. Custom interface is so important to most players The addons should just be built into the game easier for nooba to use, not disabled.
Its trash because 1. Boosting. 2. Power leveling buffs 3. Gold buying and selling. Instead of slowing leveling which would make way more sense since it was broke into phases, they sped it up. Dumb.
Sod wanted to make a game where it felt like vanilla but had more to discover to continue the adventure. They needed to do what runescape did and release and build on the tail end of the end game of classic. More quests more engagement having you go to the other faction and risk some sh##. Engaging story quests and features that could be voted on possibly. Lvl cap still 60 but the items and adventure keep going on. All i know is runescape did it right and wow copies everything, why not copy that?
seasons in wow suck! A seasonal server?....even worse! Just do all this stuff for nothing and if you dont have infinite play time to devote to it you always feel behind (whether you are or not).
I came back to WoW a week and a half ago after quitting SoD in the beginning of Phase 2. I am currently on retail, not because I enjoy it more, but because catching up and getting all the runes again is a pain and I have no idea whats going on. With limited play time, I dont want to run around spending all of my time essentially "Catching up".
I swear classic player are the most boring people in existence. You guys never want anything new or want any changes you just want the exact same game that came out 20 years ago. Go play the private servers that are just that and level 100 alts slow as could be and do the exact same things in the game for another 20 year's
Respectfully, you are way out of touch with Classic Era if you think the majority of the player base plays for leveling. WoW has always been endgame focus since OG Vanilla. Only recently that has changed but that is essentially in Retail with the introduction of M+ and inclusion of story/side story quests not Classic. In Classic Era, a vastly small population loves taking years (exaggerating but you get my point) to get to 60. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to log into a cluster right now and see how many players are leveling (not including boosts)...its hardly anyone. And IF they are leveling is mostly due to needing WB drops because they are running out. There are social events like the Deviate Delight Leveling event that took place in summer but thats now dead after 3 months. Plus when you analyze information, you need to be as thorough as possible. P1 was successful because SoD has zero competition, leveling to 25 is significantly time efficient, and it was over holidays. By P2, people got burnt out from SM grinding because it was the fastest way to get to 40. Everyone had complete capability to go quest and do outdoor content but hardly anyone cared about that. Then by the time they helped push the leveling buff, it was to late because people were burnt out. In P3, you had the released of MoP Remix, Classic Cata, Elden Ring Console, Final Fantasy 14 and other games that may have been released that attracted player attention. By P4, you have the player base most likely to stay and play it through to the end and thats why a new competitor (TWW) Retail expansion being released. In Classic Era, the raiders have kept Classic alive. Some of them have been raiding for 5 years. SoD is following the same path and is finally more casual than Classic era where you don't have the speed clearing meta engraving on all the player base believing you need it to succeed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with raid logging. This isn't retail. Players can raid log and still be relative to the game. SoD devs took a page from FF14 Yoshi Lead and realized that you dont have to slave yourself to a video game. You can play others and still come back to enjoy the game to have fun. SoD has made the game more time efficient, all classes are viable, raids have difficulties that can be achieved by everyone and its casual friendly. This is why it has an average of 4-5x more players than Classic Era.
@@lucasmorgan4379 First off, If you want to take a year to level then go back to Classic Era. Don't screw the majority of the player base because you are in the minority. Its that very mentality that is screwing the world up right now lmao. Second, Raiding is what made the game. WoW literally set the benchmark on how all the MMO's create endgame content and till this day is stands as the best MMO endgame content out there. Guess what, people still go back to Classic to do CLASSIC raids which are stupid easy. The only problem is that player base isn't nearly as skilled as the retail which is why they rely on speed clearing meta to win (aka 15+ warrior stacking, full WB/dps consumes, etc). SoD isn't even close to retail gameplay wise. Outside of new abilities, the mechanics are still stupid easy in the raids but have a nice updated challenging approach to bring skill/competency into a factor when you go to logs rather than speed. Not sure what game you have been play but WoW has been like this for 20 years since 08.
@@andrew2616 screwing the world? Kinda melodramatic don’t you think😂 the game came out in 04 wow has been the same since wrath and it started go down hill since wrath the numbers don’t lie…and in the war within and dragonflight they have been making changes for the majority of casual players instead of the top 2 percent of sweats who live in there moms basement. Classic wow when it launched was bigger than retail was for months for retaining players….i don’t understand your logic btw bc sod is suppose to be a different take on classic but it ended up being to much like retail that’s a fact many players who have quit myself included have said that same thing…it kinda sounds like your coping hard right now…your the kind of toxic player that keeps new people and casual players from enjoying wow. I think it’s sad that people like you exist just to gatekeep and be a loser there is more to wow than just raiding that’s what makes it special
@@lucasmorgan4379 Im confused, you are literally agreeing with what I said. WoW was casual in Vanilla 08 and in TBC. Hell, it was even Casual in 2019-2020. However, you are truly stupid if you think WoW Classic Era (the version now) is casual or you don't raid Naxx at all. The Speed Clearing Meta has infected the raiding community and casual community for that matter. People are literally sending a 60 alt with an epic mount and herbalism to a dead server (aka Bloodsail) to pick flowers and then send a mule (level 10 alt with stacked bank and bags of herbs) back to the cluster so they can have herbs to raid because you can't herb in Classic Era due to bots. You represent that player base that levels to 60, doesn't raid because you aren't capable of doing so, and represents the minority of the community but barks the loudest lol. You are probably that same individual that signed the petition to remove Stormrend so you could force players to pay for a second account, go to barrens MC their alliance characters and get the very buff that you didn't want drop in Stormwind.
@@lucasmorgan4379 Thats completely incorrect. WoW didn't have a legitimate competitor in the MMO market until FF14 in 2014 but even this failed and had to be re-released at a later time. Guild Wars did decent but SWTOR, Aion, Wildstar, Tera, and Rift all failed. None of them could hold a candle to WoW. It was in a league of its own. Finally, FF 14 is a valid competitor but that took nearly a decade to achieve consider WoW came out in 08. What you are saying is the equivalent of "Netflix was the best streaming service in 07" when no other company streamed at that time. I guess logically that makes sense but your justification was casual friendly rather than competition. Its easy to be the best when you have nothing to go against. But its clear as day you aren't a raider, you are part of that group that is #nochanges. Go to Turtle WoW or stay in Classic Era. Its always going to be there. SoD is for the other player base that wants a better version of the game.
@@lucasmorgan4379 ah so you are getting off from trolling. This is literally the dumbest thing I have seen yet. You are the Perfect example of the decline in society lol. Speaking on a subject you have hardly any knowledge about makes you a fool not smart.
Tbh season of discovery is the best version. It’s a little different from vanilla so you have something fun and new, new content with the PvP events and eruptions, the dailies make it better to level alts. It’s not complicated, it’s just different and all the classic andies try so hard to compare it to vanilla
NAAAAAAAAAAH. SOD IS A JOKE WASTE OF TIME. GIVE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE FOR FREE AND NO EFFORT IT IS NOT A CLASSIC MMO F THIS GAME UNTIL IT DIES. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME
To me personally, the NPC to player strength ratio is the issue with retail. I don’t want to press one button and kill 40 mobs around me. That’s what Diablo is for.
It’s not complicated, people just don’t like being lied too and don’t like lazy devs. Sod was sold as a completed seasonal server with them even saying at their announcement of it that they had “nearly finished” their lvl 60 content. Only after it became blatantly obvious it was a WiP did they sing a totally different tune and say “oh lawl guys this is a beta test didn’t you know?”
So I’m paying them to test an unfinished product? That’s a scam.
They also haven’t done anything new. They stole the work of WotLK devs, called 15 year old abilities “new” and then proceeded to not release any new content minus 1 terrible dungeon and an even worse raid boss.
No one cares about BWL, ZG, AQ or Naxx. We came to sod to play new content and after paying them for a year now and not having any new content it’s pretty hard to trust anything they say in the future.
Just like destiny 2, when the lies come to light the player base plummets. You can see it in the phase 3 week they said “this is a test” nearly a 60% drop in raiders.
It’s 100% bullshit and the classic devs should 100% get new jobs where they do t feel the need to lie to their paying customers
I to went back to playing retail after playing SoD for a few phases. What SoD showed me is that the "classic" dev team has no idea what makes people enjoy classic at all. They way they treated TBC, Wrath, and now Cata by pumping cash shop bullshit into it showed they don't care and just wanted to bleed your bank account. Then SoD was supposed to be a fun twist on classic but just ended up being a shittier version of retail. I have zero faith that anyone on that team will be able to make a truly classic+ server. The only thing they did that was good was hardcore servers and that was to piggy back off the addon. The only people who seem to understand what classic+ should be is the team behind Turtle.
I'm sorry but a lot of the class changes in SoD are just objectively good for the game. If you genuinely like pressing frostbolt over and over again, you're insane. Turtle WoW added lots of cool zones and dungeons which is awesome, but they have done practically zero class changes and everything remains the same. Vanilla is NOT a perfect game. SoD gameplay is infinitely more engaging with these changes for every single class. The only problem is runes not being tied to talents, and also runes that completely go against class fantasy like mage healing mechanics.
Hit the nail on the head -- I'm glad some people enjoy SOD, but I agree it's more like retail than classic with a twist, and that's just not what many of us are looking for. It doesn't feel like classic to me with demon form tanking warlocks, mages healing, and the myriad of other changes that are antithetical to classic.
i just started playing SOD for the first time, it took me about 1.5 days play time to hit 60 and get all my runes with the XP buff and guides, wasn't bad at all and having a lot of fun. Also there are a ton of people leveling in the world now, especially with the mega servers. My friends and I are are specifically coming to try SOD because of BWL phase.
Thats the problem. A 6 days play time to 60 is fast in classic
This boosting of leveling ruined the game made it a joke.
@@markblaze4909 coming to try sod for end game, not leveling. If you don’t like the xp boost you can literally turn it off.
I would disagree personally
@markblaze4909 leveling is the absolute most boring thing to do in all versions of wow. I don't want to grind for a month just to get to max lvl just because some no life thinks it should take forever. Most adults can't play 10 hours a day or more
The fact that leveling to 60 and getting all runes took you 1.5 days and you present that as a positive really shows what a huge devide there is between the average vanilla enjoyer and the SoD Playerbase. Completely different Players with completely different expectations
I agree. Classic+ needs to be much more closer to era than sod/retail. Minor tweaks and more content is really all it needs. Vanilla is near perfect the way it is
No, it's not, not even close. And minor tweaks won't fix all the specs that aren't viable at all. Forcing Druids, Shamans, All priests and paladins to go healer if they want to raid is not near perfect game design.
@@philiptomczyk655that's more of a player problem than design (other than debuff cap)
@@adjacent-smith The way the Tier pieces are designed begs to differ. It's definietly a design problem aswell as a player problem
@@adjacent-smith 25 fury warriors in 1 raid.... Classic is not perfect at ALL and so many changes in sod were very good for the game, objectively. Hybrid dps specs being playable is a very good thing for the game. A lot of the runes and changes added in sod NEED to be added to classic+. They just need to be tuned properly, tied to talents, and still go with the class fantasy of each class.
All Warriors is a player problem.
Also, the tier sets are catchup gear for people that don't have bis dungeon sets and gear that are otherwise unavailable to hybrid dps specs (and resto since shaman has access to tons of other gear)
I respectfully disagree. This theoretical wow experience with the classic leveling experience exists in wow classic, and per your report it has 10% of the population of SOD. SOD's key attractions are new spells, class balances, new content and a non decaying pvp system. SOD is only in a bad place because of the period between phases 3 and 4 where there was no content because the dev team prioritized retail. A lot of the population issues are tied to SOD not being as alt friendly in the later phases, so fewer characters are raiding. I am sure if the numbers were analyzed by the account in lieu of by the character the drop off wouldn't seem as drastic.
I personally loved the complexity of being able to have multiple pieces of gear with different runes giving me the option to just do a quick gear swap when combat drops to have a different rune.
Like on my Mage for example being able to gear swap to a pair of boots I think it was to Chrono heal up after combat (in a BG or pvp environment). And then swapping back to my other piece of gear after I healed up.
I think it says a lot when in the phase 3 developer presentation they said they didn't want 40 man raids because it would be popcorn and beer content..or something along those lines. Isn't that why we're playing classic? To invite friends no matter their skill level.. relax and just have fun killing bosses & getting loot?
That's why I play classic at least!
I agree with a lot of your points! It being seasonal turned a lot of my friends off in addition to all the "bis" specs changing every phase for a few classes! My gang just got tired of it & is now playing retail.
I decided to try new alts on SoD, but the leveling experience has been completely ruined by the crazy xp rate boosts. You can't finish a quest chain without it going gray, which means you're missing a lot of gear upgrades in between dungeons.
I have found this outside of SoD too. Anytime they add things like "double XP weekend" I actively avoid playing, because I want to play the game properly.
You know you can turn the xp boost of?f
I do gray quests anyway because I want to do the stuff... it is a choice.
you can turn off the xp boost which is nice :D if you feel its giving to much and it stops at 50 so
play classic wtf... this is SEASONAL
I feel like once the novelty wore off (roughly the tail end of ph2), having to discover runes wasn't fun and very much felt like pointless content. As well, I agree it's a MAJOR barrier to entry for alts. Almost as annoying as re-obtaining your TBC attunements. I feel like the 3 best possible answers are: 1, once you hit each bracket (25/40/50/60), you unlock all the runes in that bracket for every character on your account. 2, once you hit 60, you unlock all runes for all characters on your account. 3, all runes are just unlocked from the start even as a fresh account. No particular order. Each has positives/negatives. But at least it would increase the value of repeating content so that the main focus can just be leveling.
I do think they really didn't add much "new quests" like they originally stated was going to be a goal. Sure it's nice to have more exp boosts so you don't have to sit in a zone for too long, but why not just add more quests too? It feels like much of the 1-59 content is still not fully fleshed out, and there wasn't much new content in that regard.
I just hope they don't can SoD because numbers aren't looking good due to issues that are fixable as long as people would contribute and Blizzard will listen. Those two stars have to align, or else we can scream from the mountaintops and Blizzard won't listen, or vice versa Blizzard will just give up if they keep trying and just get shit on each time.
I quit during phase two. I had a blast during season one. Season two went from being pug friendly to requiring a guild. I switched over to live and am much happier. The raids are harder but you can pug heroics at your own pace. The lock outs are awesome, only being locked to a boss is great.
everyone has their own opinion i enjoy the crazy changes, who wants to spam 2 buttons again for 2 years straight, that's exactly the reason SOM was going down aswell. Less changes won't fix the issue
@9:37 The biggest point about SOD. I've described SOD to classic friends as "Retail in classic clothing". SOD isn't for classic players. Runes at least are keeping players in the world, shouldn't change that.
They should have made questing for Better gear part of the Game. Do epic quest chains and obtain gear would have been alot of fun.
I stopped playing SoD mainly because I felt there wasn't enough changes. Maybe I've been spoiled with Retail, but I was hoping for multi targetting mobs you know.. Less competition to get quests done?
SoD is too much change. Phase 1 was great. Then shit got crazy
Yeah P1 and even P2 were peak SoD imo
Agreed, I enjoyed the level capping and everyone all being in the same ballpark. The changes were nice change of pace things, a few weird but interesting things like mage healer and warlock tank. I think it out paced me, I like enjoying the world and questing and next thing I knew I was a part behind people
Have to heavily disagree with the take that SoD is closer to retail, its closer to Wrath or Cata Classic - retails major issue and almost complete focus is Seasonal resets. Having to do the same mythics all over again for the same gear just do it again in a few months for a better ilvl is not my jam, and while theyve mitigated it somewhat by rotating the mythics, its still content ive done endlessly before. It completely falls apart when I can leave the game for a year, come back, do a patch quest line and be more geared than probably if I stayed around. I enjoy the game and some of that, but not enough to do it at the level where I'd keep enjoying it.
Classic and SoD doesnt have that, and while catchup and mechanisms to ease back in are fine, things like above are the main reason I'll never do retail to the same scale or content level I'd do in classic.
My main put offs for SoD is A) its "progressed" (its never too late, but its a perspective, and i bit the bullet and came back, world was quite busy before the merge, even more now.) and b) having to do content no-one is doing very often for rune acquirement, somewhat fixed for things like wild gods, but not for others.
The real truth will come and in what they do with the data and feedback they get from SoD moving forward. I hope they do a spin on it for Classic+, just as I hope we get another series of progression from classic onwards.
As an aside: enjoy your content and its been going strong recently, keep it up!
You talked about retail and i just honestly think retail will never really convince classic players to hop over and fully start spending their precious time in that version of the game.
I've played classic since 2019 on release day, and just looking at retail "gives me the ick". Just the basic things like graphics, artwork, animations and how everything has just been modernized to cater towards a younger audience is a big turnoff for me. The "dragon" mounts implemented with dragonflight, what even are those? Look at them, they look like something straight outta cartoon network. Group finders, making the game a lobby simulator. I literally logged on 2 days before TWW launch and stormwind city was empty. Wheres all the people? There is no feeling of MMO and it really turns alot of people off including myself.
I think you are absolutely correct about all that you say, and I really hope that when they do classic plus they do small changes with the talents and spells so maybe your not just spamming one spell. And keep the leveling speed true to vanilla I feel is the most important thing or it will not have the feeling and you miss so much of the content.
You are spot on.
SoD is miles away from vanilla and therefor mostly draws people that dont care for the vanilla experience. These people in turn are not used to a strong social fabric necessary to do 40 man raids, thats why SoD raiding falls apart beyond 10 players. They are used to the single player experience retail provides.
Blizzard should try to split the playerbase. they should do wow classic on one side with vanilla, tbc, wrath and somethin like wow a new beginning where they take vanilla as a starting point and do all the changes they and the SoD/classic+ community desires.
4:00 I do agree but I also know there's a lot of players that like the endgame. In classic 2019 the endgame was ok and I really didn't want to do it again because it's the most tedious version of raiding to have ever existed. SoD fixed this and now I'm looking forward to raiding and gearing.
To me the slow leveling puts me off. I like the world but I've done it so many times now that I just want a bit more smooth sailing to cap.
On one hand i like the phase concept becuase it slowed down the progression. On the other hand, the phases is like mini expansions every few months. All the time i put in raiding with my guild to gear up becomes pointless as there was the rush to the next end mini end game. They did the same with retail with the seasons. It just never bothered me with retail because I haven't raided there since Wrath.
I literally play a lot and not ONCE heard this
yes, because you are void of the opinions of the majority that have ceased to play. proving the point
@@Pmoney8496ignorance is bliss
I missed most of phase 3 and 4, and I'm totally confused. I just hit 60, and I'm kind of lost. A lot of research had to be done, and I'm nowhere near buying my epic mount. That's probably my fault for leveling just with classic vanilla quests all the way to 60 but still. Game is in a weird spot
I think you wrong , most people in SOD dont like leveling . Today SOD classic player want to do almost the same like in retail but in classic world .
That's why phase one was so hype. I had 6 alts all leveled and geared in less than a week.
No one wants to level 1-60 for the millionth time no matter how many new spells you add.
I mostly agree besides the fact that the majority of the player base just wants to raidlog. The reason the world remained active during classic vanilla was because you couldnt boon your world buffs so people made alts to enjoy the day to day stuff while their mains were just stuffed away with all possible world buffs. The real content at the time as an alliance player was finding ways to get horde world buffs, summons, world boss preparation and degen the hell out of the game. I feel if classic plus has too much focus on the journey it will die out as fast as every hardcore hype. High peaks, deep lows. Blizzard currently is just plugging holes in 4 different versions of the game to keep us subscribed. Imo leave era as it is, kill cata/mop classic once classic plus releases and just focus on classic plus and retail
I’ve played off and on for years including original release.. had quit most recently 7months ago as wotlk ended. The earlier sod stages didn’t entice me till I saw MC again and got the itch. So not long ago I made a pally for the first time and it took 5 long ingame days to hit max level. Not knowing about runes I routinely skipped important ones doing less dmg for levels until rectifying. I’m still catching up on runes to be more viable to raid. That being said.. I’ll have basically full t1 waiting once I get in guild run. It’s a loooota shit to catch up on. It’s the old classic rep grind + rune shit that really makes the barrier to enter substantial.
Season of Finding Runes. Character can't function properly without the Runes. So basically you are playing a broken class until you found the runes.
I don't like the focus on end game, I like taking my time to level and quest in the world. Stopped playing SOD after the stupid incursion garbage, finished the incursion rep grind, logged out and never logged back in.
Agreed my dude. Seasons and classic don’t mix. I personally dislike seasonal content - wow wasn’t meant to be seasonal - but I play it anyway because I love classic and the prospect of a solid classic+ perm
Give me your hot take on what a perfect Classic+ looks like. Talents, zones, questlines finished or added, keeping the main character the world alive and more so than prior versions of wow, etc.
@@VonoMoon incoming
I’ll give me take. I think classic + should be vanilla wow with minor class tweaks to certain underperforming skills and specs. For example: give enchantment shaman dual wield and give hunters steady shot. Provide horizontal progression rather than vertical progression. Upgrade underused world zones and add quests. Maybe tweak some blues and epics that suck. Improve professions. Add a profession and add 1 race per faction.
No gold buying. Not gold selling. No boosting. Slower xp gains. Remove dungeon spam to level. Add diminish returns on types of leveling. No complete throttles but dr is really needed. Problem are the players. Get the bad ones to quit
Add more penalties for death. Make content all harder. This will slow down game play.
I remember in the beginning agrand saying he didn’t want to make retail minus and that’s exactly what they did . I actually really like sod and will ride it out to the end it was a great experience. But am I disappointed in the result . Absolutely
How about a video about how they destroyed AU servers overnight and now we have to come and play on 2-300ms on Crusader Strike
give all runes from the start but cut the 300% xp gain at this point and it will make lvling better, but this alone won`t solve all the problems, raids should be 10 man everybody liked that including me and it`s clear that going in p3 with st 20 man killed many guilds and a lot of players quit sod and wow entirely, from all my friends i`m the only one still hanging around
For me the thing the led me to quit was the runes and how you couldnt get some of them on your own, and NOONE is helpful. And the runes for priest was the most frustrating thing ever, having to have all those buffs to learn the runes, like wtf?!
I played sod until p2, could not deal with 20man raids as a guild officer. we disbanded and almost everyone stopped playing. We prefer classic to retail mainly because of the slower and heavier pace gameplay in every aspect of the game questing, dundeons, raids, pvp.
We did enjoy the new spells and class reworks of course but we hated the rune system (they could use that for class quests!) , the copy pasta content and this phase leveling that killed the hype for a lot of people, raid logging at 40 and even 25 is not fun at all and stops and kills the hype train. Many members after raid logging at 25 did not come back for anything. Its like taking your plate away while youre eating and giving it back 2 hours later... now you eat it
My hope for Classic+ is still the same as it was before sod, same game with improvements like guild bank, ui edit mode, lfg board, some spec reworks, completed zoned, new raids after naxx, even adding archeology, jewelcrafting and sockets to gear and lowering 40/20 man to 10/15.
The classic player base is older and can not maintain playing schedules like we used to. The only thing about retail I prefer is the lower player number raids and its replayable content. If they can add that to classic+...
That said, I have absolutely zero faith in these devs. All events they added, either were bugged or sucked balls
Like the videos generally. But this one, i'm not sure what to take from it. Play retail? Sounds a little like complaining to complain. Do you have any other suggestion that Blizz could do with SoD other than be more like classic? ❤
i want some spells for classes that need help but i want like a lot more mini dungeons and mini raids while we level as well as have level cap so we can more of a slow journey exp so 3 patches at 25 but add more raids and dungeons so we can be more into playing the game also add better faster flightpaths or train like travel systems.
The 40 man idea seems like an epic journey but it is so dog water in reality. Organizing all of it and keeping 40 people happy is an absolute chore and full time job, if you are doing it well. The change to 20 mans killed so many 10 man groups due to the need of organized labor.
I skipped p4 and most of 5. no one is dungeoning so it's very hard to gear up for mc etc
I agree with your takes in the video. Season of discovery is too far removed from how vanilla feels and plays. The classes are too powerful with too many/wrong abilities. It’s too end game/raiding focused rather than focusing on the 1-60 journey that sets vanilla apart from other versions of the game. Sod doesn’t cater to the core classic fan base which is why classic as a whole feels dead right now
I actually somewhat disagree. Leveling is fun, but end game is what’s truly important. Getting to max level and fighting the hardest content and gearing up and feeling good/powerful is what’s important to me.
Having the open world feel alive is very important; I agree. But that’s lower on the totem pole, for me. SoD is actually the most fun I’ve had in WoW since at LEAST Legion. Maybe more, to be honest.
However; I actually agreed with the phases. It forced players to experience other content before slamming into end game. Yes, end game is the most important in my opinion. But experiencing the entirety of the game is also important too.
I love SOD! I just think SOD opened up my mind to retail and now I'm stuck on retail and I'm not sure I want to go back. I'm having a blast doing M+ and grinding up keys for the very first time. I just don't think I want to go back to any kind of classic anymore and that's okay. I'll still have my memories of SOD and classic to look fondly on.
I agree about leveling. I dont agree about that 20 man raids is problem of SOD. There is small guilds also. As countent creator you always will get raid full easy, but some people it is hard to get 40man full. I would like as aption 40/25/10 whatever but as option that you can choose.
About spells I dont agree. I want every class spec usable in game in pve and pvp also.
Paladins as tanks, shadow priest as dps(not only 1 in raid), feral druids as dps and more.
I dont want to see mage healer, warlock tank, rogue tank. Thats too much.
I dont want to classic plus be classic. Thats my opinion.
And ofc this is seasonal after 1 year there will not be so much people leveling I think its just understable. I agree that Classic plus need to be progresive and lasting server where is new raids, dungeouns, new bgs, new zones and more...
they are not even capable to copy well private server turtle wow XD , ppl ask classic + they give us retail and not every player is pve leveling andy theres many pvpers in classic, they abandoned PvP in SoD.
The wow population is stagnant no new wow players, and blizz keeps splitting the playerbase with different versions. Fresh severs of anything old will fall of a cliff a month after launch.
cap. they had lightning in a bottle phase 1, so many new players
First SOD video I've seen since I quit on launch of MC. So happy I quit, seems like it just got worse.
everyone keeps saying "because it's seasonal no one wants to invest time" yet everyone when playing on P servers couldn't wait when it was time to have a reset or a new server was going to launch.
I think it was shobek that hit the nail on the head. The entire world needs to feel alive at almost every level. Leveling needs to be the single biggest time sink to do that. You need to allow people to take a break for a week/month etc. come back and be able to pick up where they left off and still feel like people are doing the same things.
I stopped in phase 2 because I hated leveling and everyone was in rush mode with dungeon grinds. Also the fact it wouldn't be around forever and since I half expect Classic+ to come, I thought catch up time along everything going away eventually kept me from coming back.
If you dont like to level get out of this game.
It’s a seasonal service. If you didn’t join from the beginning, you’ve lost out on 80% of the content, and I think that’s ok. It’s the same with any other seasonal server in other games. I don’t think blizzard is going to do more to get new players into SOD, besides the buffs to exp gains. And I think that’s ok
No, I just chill during raid. I don’t meta, I don’t log, don’t care about parses. I enjoy the alts. I’ve tried retail twice since WW launched, it’s just messy. The screen is a mess, the pace and rotations are like a spazzing seizure. Wont be coming to retail.
So I’ll be honest started to top my Fishing up and I do see lots of 30-40 lvl characters in the world I don’t think there is even issue with getting people to do sunken or any other low lvl raid. Sods skills and specs make sense so I want them to be tuned down a bit yes do I want every spec to perform yes!! Absolutely love that there is more then Paladin healer and warrior tank. Playing sod and will play till it dies. Remember TWW took a lot of players a lot in both guild that I play took list 20 people so Iam not sure if it’s SODs issue at the end of the story for blizzard it’s win and for us for having all that content to explore it’s a win!! I like SOD that I know what I will do for next week or so retail it’s absolute Chaos there is so many way to do stuff that Iam overwhelmed. Not including 10000000 toys that effects your gameplay. I do love Retail and what they doing with it but its not made for players like me.
blizzard showed their lack of understanding when they made phase 3, until then i wouldnt say it was too complicated. not worth playing after phase 3 anyways. runes werent a problem in phase 1 or 2 when there were only so many, and looking back at it, it was a dumb cheesy way to add new spells and abilities in the game, it wasnt at all what a classic plus test should have been.
What did you mean by p4 being lower than p3? I wanted to ask first before I came with the numbers just for you to tell me thats just your opinion that its worse than the lowest state of p3 or something lol
they base this off of a site that only counts the players logging their parses. I came back to sod recently and expected based on what is being said online to see empty citys and zones. this was not the case at all.
My takes on SoD
1) Classic andies expect and compare SoD to Classic. It isnt classic, yes the content is in classic raids/content, It should be fast as possible to get 60. Its new thing with runes/specs. people should be able to test as much as possible multiple alts.
2) Bind of Account attunements/Items are super good. Im fine if u have to do it once on your main.
3) What I really hate is SoD is we have to do Molten Core - Naxxramas. nobody wants it. It keeps dieing out phase after phase until they give us actually custom content like Karazhan etc. NGL the leveling up raids were fun, because they had custom tactics and everything.
4) Im not against or support GDKPs, but i sadly feel GDKP killed atleast 40%+ player base in SoD aswell if we watch charts. P1 was 400K active players now its like 50K
5) Also Server transfer was totally useless for PvE servers. Example they closed char creation Wild Growth-EU and made PvE to PvE and EU has only 1 PvE server. Ratio is 3:1 Ally to Horde in this server. We are bleeding out on recruiting. Really hope they open PvP to PvE.
6) Level 60 content raids they just copy-paste pretty much SoM tactics. Molten Core H1-H3 was pretty much 90% same you just needed Fire resistance and now BWL to do hardest content you need Black + 2 random colour affixes to get more loot, woulda been more intersting if u need to activate actually ALL affixes. Pretty sure AQ/Naxx wont be that much diffrence just hope to get into Karazhan asap.
7) Hopefully they make Hyjal open zone and some kind of raid/dungeons into it, Azshara open world pvp event etc.
8) World buffs should be gonne, sure its easy to get them u spend 30min to get all of them, but it feels so punishing if u lose them in raid and you lose 40% of your DPS nothing to do with skillwise. + Melees having chicken buffs. Either make scrolls like PTR u can apply world buffs or delete them completly and give mages mini version of Bloodlust 15% haste for 20 seconds or sth.
I think they should make the game more casual, with higher XP/honor, 10-man raid max, etc... Casual players are always the majority of players... I'm playing all 3 versions, Sod, Cata, and retail, and Sod is the one I play less because it is not very friendly to casual players...
The classic community fought tooth and nail for a WoW product tailored to their needs, and now all the casuals come and try to make it theirs like all the other versions. It's not meant for you, and I think Blizzard is sorely letting the target audience down with SoD. It's way too casual and borrows too much from retail.
@@Forty2de There are normal vanilla servers and 1 life serves; both version are cleary not for casual players, if they want casual players playing vanilla they need to make a casual version is that simple...
Not making a casual version of vanilla push away all casual players they may like vanilla to private servers of vanilla...
I love playing on retro wow, best gear selling for gold+5man raid=amazing, imagine something like that on a bliz server...
@@Forty2de I think vanilla is the most ''magic'' version of Wow, but the biggest fail is that it's not casual friendly; if they make stuff more ''puggable'' and easy for casual players, that would massively increase the number of players playing it.
I always thought Wow should have two versions, one for casual players and one for try-hard players; no reason for only one type of server making the other type of player quit.
That's why I always love for-fun private servers.
This is literally the exact same design philosophy that lead to retail.
@@jacque3427 You can keep the same felling of gameplay of vanilla but just make easy to find a group/get gear, i'm not saying to break the game to put lfg tools, fly mounts or any of that crap....
The change of how honor/pvp rank is amazing, now anyone have a chance to rank up, before that only premades would make enough honor.
They could make raid easy, less player is one thing that would help a lot, maybe remove the need to all extra stuff, etc, make pug hard stuff possible. Personal loot would be another thing that would help the casual player a lot and so on.
You want try-hard gameplay play normal server, everyone else can have fun on a second version of classic.
Just give p1 and p2 runes to all characters from level 1 at this point. Maybe even p3 now that p5 is out.
SOD is their failed classic+, they're literally milking people subs for years in hopes for a real classic+.
Thanks for your thoughts on retail, SoD and classic. You make me think about retail and giving it another try...
Im a casual player and Cata is just wayy better suited for us
P4 was a blast but I’ve dropped off to play retail. They are just re-hashing the same old content with minor changes
Doesn’t feel like there’s a fraction of the hype for the P5 if they aren’t going to make new content.
Nope, me and a lot of people I knew that played it stopped once the jump through hoops to get runes was fun which I think was early season two the whole turbo shredder crap. Never went back.
The only reason to play SoD is the new runes. If it’s a massive pain in the ass I’m not playing it. This isn’t a piece of gear, this is base character class skills that they made a royal pain in the ass to get. Dumb ass system. Moronic out of touch devs.
The biggest problem with SoD , and any other version of wow for that matter is the community. Blizz can't fix that.
True. But they can fix it.
Remove boosting. Remove dungeon apam. Crack down on gold selling and buying. Make content harder with high penalties for death to slow down game play. And get douches to quit
Not at all. Nowhere near as complicated as retail which has become a dumpster fire.
My biggest thing preventing me from coming back to SoD is the uncertainty of how much longer it will last and then not knowing exactly what is going to happen with our characters. It seems like it’s not worth putting time into it anymore because Classic+ will just replace it some day
Sweet I get sod ,classic and classic+ because i was there and jumped in and lived it I quit durring wrath moving upwards and came back for sod until classic+ I hope
You have to view something that's seasonal almost like a really long campaign mode. Once it's over it's over but that doesn't mean it was a waste of time. You (hopefully) had fun while playing, and that's not a waste of time
tbf we never log into most of our characters after a while anyways
It's really about knowing what your goals are. SoD gives another opportunity for people to do things they never did before in classic and want to do, like hitting a certain rank in pvp, going to raids they missed before, trying different classes in raids, etc. You of course also have classic era being a great place to hit these goals as well, although SoD makes things a little easier in my opinion. Like, if you ever wanted to raid as a balance druid, shadow priest, shaman tank, etc., SoD is perfect for you. Both SoD and classic era are not going to last forever though, life continues on. Just take a moment to find out truly what you want to achieve from this game so you don't regret it in the future as who knows what truly comes next. I went back to classic era last year because I never got to raid AQ20, AQ40 and naxx and loved achieving those goals. I now have some new goals in SoD, some that I achieved, others still ongoing. One of the fun things for me was doing the 0.5 questline (I know some don't like it, but it was fun to experience for me!)
To be fair WoW has always been in a constant state of change. We’ve always had fun with what was fun at that time, then hopped to the fun new thing when it came. Which is exactly how SoD will end one day. And by that time you’ll be enjoying the new thing too much to care that SoD is over
If you like to collect 60 runes per char that's fun ?
GIVE WARRIORS A TITAN GRIP RUNE. Also, there's seems to be cognitive dissonance with the classic community. You said at the start that people enjoy leveling and all that in era. But also stated that people are still doing raids in era as well. Aren't those raiding guilds keeping era alive and not the people who just level? As you said casuals don't reach max for like 8 months. So the hardcore raiding guilds are keeping the servers alive? Or is it the leveling? (I play all iterations of WoW BTW except Cata)
Great points Hammer 🔒It's something I mentioned as well, seasonal in my opinion doesn't work cause players don't know exactly were there character will go, and even if there's direction they feel the grind is pointless since the hype after it's all done is not worth the long haul investments, we had similar issues happen in SOM. Now you can say it's just to enjoy the journey while it lasts and I don't disagree with that, but nowadays people want things to last rather than phase out, thus leading to the topic at hand which a lot of people I see now are discussing. Once again just my take, I'm not always correct but I am passionate on how I feel for the future of WoW & I still will be rocking with Season of Discovery regardless.
It's not a different type of player.
The 20 person raid content in SOD was much harder than the 40 person raid content in classic (MC, even BWL). That's why guilds fell apart. This is no different from era. Population in classic drops like a rock for AQ because it's hard. Most classic players want a "beer and pretzel" experience, which is why SOD is not going to satisfy that crowd. There is simply too much going on to appeal to those players. Phase 1 was already pushing things. Everything that came ofter was simply overkill.
Anything with more than one button is too complicated for the classic boomers
The problem with sod is that very few people are leveling now because everyone doing the level 60 stuff. So if you just come to it now the leveling is pretty dull. There's no one doing the leveling dungeons except for DM and SM. I never see people posting in LFG for Ulda, RFD, ZF, or Mara. Also, SoD pvp has always been completely broken and at this point it's unsalvagable. Too many overpowered rune abilities in the game.
There was never any leveling. Juat dungeon spam. And boosting from gold buying. Game is a joke
Told you a long time ago that SOD is dead and will die even more because of its seasonal nature....
The runes were over powered. Mobs didnt get a good enough boost to make it fun
No what happened with SoD is, world pvp is worthless and nothing but a gank fest. You cannot attack cities as you are punished for it still since you lose honor from Civs kills (which happens), and the leveling boost was needed due to players falling off due to nothing really to do. It's not fun to have your higher level friend carry you around to all your "required" runes to play the spec you want and spend hours on end to see there is nothing at end game. Raids, dungeons that don't matter and overplayed BGs since the start of time.
The seasonal model is antithetical to classics design. That being said what has truly ruined classic wow is the community’s approach to the game. Meta gaming & min/maxing has warped peoples outlook on the game for the worse. Unless they can reverse this, it will never be even remotely as good as it once was.
I don't believe SOD is retail in that regards. I believe the community more at play here then you think. Not trying to hate or anything but I've played every xpac up to current and don't believe SOD is a retail Minus like everyone says. if you played during warlords up to Dragon lands you would have a massive different view of the game compared to where classic and retail is at currently.
I think the classic community mindset has shifted so much and that they don't realize this honestly. yes we may get a fresh Hardcore or fresh wow but the same effect is going to happen again where it starts off strong and dies off.
Most people left SoD due to the gatekeeping by overly invested playerbase.. like braindead easy dungeons requiring group comps and specific specs and parsing for BFD..
Makes no sense. Other people doing this doesnt stop you from going in with a pug and wiping all night.
@markblaze4909 it does though because it creates a perception bleeds into the entire game. The idea that you need the add-ons, buffs, consumables, pre-bis and all above all the concept that you can never fail.
It ends up intimidating people into never trying raids or even _dungeons_
SoD has been popping off since the server merger. I have been finding lots of players in the world while leveling alts now. I hope we see classic+ realms soon after sod ends because i will not return to classic era with how good sod has been for me.
its not popping off. they just took the crums left on each server and merged them.
100% ok with that
yes sod is annoying and my girlfriend cannot play it because its made for millenial kids with ahds and not classic. "discovering" runes is a fcn joke when there is no "bounty board" with hints and instead you have to go through malicious websites and addons. disgusting. even more disgusting to have mechanics that require addons. disgusting. disable all macro and addon support. thank you. plus as you say, they destroyed all classic content - professions are useless, and doing open world or do herbs, and everything, is useless. pretty sure they never wanted sod to be successful but good enough in a very short timespan to up their subscriptions on retail trash. and again, my girlfriend is not strong enough to kill green mobs in open world because the game doesn't event tell her to go to malicious websites to find out what runes are. edit since i wrote the comment before watching your video: exactly, it's more like retail than classic and that's the reason why it is f dog s and why we never play retail aswell. i wish they went to 40 player straight and remove that retail scum immediately. btw those "guilds" you speaking of which run when they need to organize more than 3 people at the same time and rather play singleplayer - are fk stpd because blizz +- promised us 40 raids and to dig in wirh your 3 homies and cry very loud on social media to prevent everyone who is 20yr+ age ro enjoy the game is so sad. ps: i really really hate the raids. it'a sweaty trash and my class plays awful and the loot is horrible compared to classic
Addons are what make the game good. I would never touch wow without addons. Custom interface is so important to most players
The addons should just be built into the game easier for nooba to use, not disabled.
At the core it’s still vanilla
Harder lvling + solo dungeon (not raid) is what wow Season of Discovery need
Its trash because 1. Boosting. 2. Power leveling buffs 3. Gold buying and selling.
Instead of slowing leveling which would make way more sense since it was broke into phases, they sped it up. Dumb.
Sod wanted to make a game where it felt like vanilla but had more to discover to continue the adventure.
They needed to do what runescape did and release and build on the tail end of the end game of classic. More quests more engagement having you go to the other faction and risk some sh##. Engaging story quests and features that could be voted on possibly. Lvl cap still 60 but the items and adventure keep going on.
All i know is runescape did it right and wow copies everything, why not copy that?
SOD > mini retail
SoD too complicated?
Retail? Hello?
Rune system is weird tbh
I think its be better if they gave the abilities base. But the runes modified the abilities, its ripped off of Diablo 4, so make it nore like D4 lol.
seasons in wow suck! A seasonal server?....even worse! Just do all this stuff for nothing and if you dont have infinite play time to devote to it you always feel behind (whether you are or not).
I came back to WoW a week and a half ago after quitting SoD in the beginning of Phase 2. I am currently on retail, not because I enjoy it more, but because catching up and getting all the runes again is a pain and I have no idea whats going on. With limited play time, I dont want to run around spending all of my time essentially "Catching up".
God the wow community is so insufferable.
I swear classic player are the most boring people in existence. You guys never want anything new or want any changes you just want the exact same game that came out 20 years ago. Go play the private servers that are just that and level 100 alts slow as could be and do the exact same things in the game for another 20 year's
SoD just sucks. Seasonal WoW is mid at best anyways but when you give us Retail Minus instead of Classic Plus nobody gives a shit.
it was pretty popular goofbag lol
@@suckmesally-f9g Was - because it was new. And when the newness wore off it became clear it was shit.
👍🏼👍🏼👏👏👏👏👏💥💥💥
Nope, it's just bad.
Respectfully, you are way out of touch with Classic Era if you think the majority of the player base plays for leveling. WoW has always been endgame focus since OG Vanilla. Only recently that has changed but that is essentially in Retail with the introduction of M+ and inclusion of story/side story quests not Classic. In Classic Era, a vastly small population loves taking years (exaggerating but you get my point) to get to 60. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to log into a cluster right now and see how many players are leveling (not including boosts)...its hardly anyone. And IF they are leveling is mostly due to needing WB drops because they are running out. There are social events like the Deviate Delight Leveling event that took place in summer but thats now dead after 3 months.
Plus when you analyze information, you need to be as thorough as possible. P1 was successful because SoD has zero competition, leveling to 25 is significantly time efficient, and it was over holidays. By P2, people got burnt out from SM grinding because it was the fastest way to get to 40. Everyone had complete capability to go quest and do outdoor content but hardly anyone cared about that. Then by the time they helped push the leveling buff, it was to late because people were burnt out. In P3, you had the released of MoP Remix, Classic Cata, Elden Ring Console, Final Fantasy 14 and other games that may have been released that attracted player attention. By P4, you have the player base most likely to stay and play it through to the end and thats why a new competitor (TWW) Retail expansion being released.
In Classic Era, the raiders have kept Classic alive. Some of them have been raiding for 5 years. SoD is following the same path and is finally more casual than Classic era where you don't have the speed clearing meta engraving on all the player base believing you need it to succeed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with raid logging. This isn't retail. Players can raid log and still be relative to the game. SoD devs took a page from FF14 Yoshi Lead and realized that you dont have to slave yourself to a video game. You can play others and still come back to enjoy the game to have fun.
SoD has made the game more time efficient, all classes are viable, raids have difficulties that can be achieved by everyone and its casual friendly. This is why it has an average of 4-5x more players than Classic Era.
@@lucasmorgan4379
First off, If you want to take a year to level then go back to Classic Era. Don't screw the majority of the player base because you are in the minority. Its that very mentality that is screwing the world up right now lmao.
Second, Raiding is what made the game. WoW literally set the benchmark on how all the MMO's create endgame content and till this day is stands as the best MMO endgame content out there. Guess what, people still go back to Classic to do CLASSIC raids which are stupid easy. The only problem is that player base isn't nearly as skilled as the retail which is why they rely on speed clearing meta to win (aka 15+ warrior stacking, full WB/dps consumes, etc).
SoD isn't even close to retail gameplay wise. Outside of new abilities, the mechanics are still stupid easy in the raids but have a nice updated challenging approach to bring skill/competency into a factor when you go to logs rather than speed.
Not sure what game you have been play but WoW has been like this for 20 years since 08.
@@andrew2616 screwing the world? Kinda melodramatic don’t you think😂 the game came out in 04 wow has been the same since wrath and it started go down hill since wrath the numbers don’t lie…and in the war within and dragonflight they have been making changes for the majority of casual players instead of the top 2 percent of sweats who live in there moms basement. Classic wow when it launched was bigger than retail was for months for retaining players….i don’t understand your logic btw bc sod is suppose to be a different take on classic but it ended up being to much like retail that’s a fact many players who have quit myself included have said that same thing…it kinda sounds like your coping hard right now…your the kind of toxic player that keeps new people and casual players from enjoying wow. I think it’s sad that people like you exist just to gatekeep and be a loser there is more to wow than just raiding that’s what makes it special
@@lucasmorgan4379 Im confused, you are literally agreeing with what I said. WoW was casual in Vanilla 08 and in TBC. Hell, it was even Casual in 2019-2020. However, you are truly stupid if you think WoW Classic Era (the version now) is casual or you don't raid Naxx at all. The Speed Clearing Meta has infected the raiding community and casual community for that matter. People are literally sending a 60 alt with an epic mount and herbalism to a dead server (aka Bloodsail) to pick flowers and then send a mule (level 10 alt with stacked bank and bags of herbs) back to the cluster so they can have herbs to raid because you can't herb in Classic Era due to bots.
You represent that player base that levels to 60, doesn't raid because you aren't capable of doing so, and represents the minority of the community but barks the loudest lol. You are probably that same individual that signed the petition to remove Stormrend so you could force players to pay for a second account, go to barrens MC their alliance characters and get the very buff that you didn't want drop in Stormwind.
@@lucasmorgan4379 Thats completely incorrect. WoW didn't have a legitimate competitor in the MMO market until FF14 in 2014 but even this failed and had to be re-released at a later time. Guild Wars did decent but SWTOR, Aion, Wildstar, Tera, and Rift all failed. None of them could hold a candle to WoW. It was in a league of its own. Finally, FF 14 is a valid competitor but that took nearly a decade to achieve consider WoW came out in 08.
What you are saying is the equivalent of "Netflix was the best streaming service in 07" when no other company streamed at that time. I guess logically that makes sense but your justification was casual friendly rather than competition. Its easy to be the best when you have nothing to go against.
But its clear as day you aren't a raider, you are part of that group that is #nochanges. Go to Turtle WoW or stay in Classic Era. Its always going to be there. SoD is for the other player base that wants a better version of the game.
@@lucasmorgan4379 ah so you are getting off from trolling. This is literally the dumbest thing I have seen yet. You are the Perfect example of the decline in society lol.
Speaking on a subject you have hardly any knowledge about makes you a fool not smart.
Tbh season of discovery is the best version. It’s a little different from vanilla so you have something fun and new, new content with the PvP events and eruptions, the dailies make it better to level alts. It’s not complicated, it’s just different and all the classic andies try so hard to compare it to vanilla
NAAAAAAAAAAH. SOD IS A JOKE WASTE OF TIME. GIVE EVERYTHING TO EVERYONE FOR FREE AND NO EFFORT IT IS NOT A CLASSIC MMO F THIS GAME UNTIL IT DIES. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME
Yep. This is right. Super easy leveling. Gold everywhere ceol farmera and gold cheating. Boosting all over. Runes make everyone super op
Its a joke