I live next to Olympic National Park. When a hiker goes missing, it is the parks policy to deny professional search and rescue teams with their dogs to search for the missing hiker. Drones are not permitted to search for the hiker. Washed out roads are never repaired, just closed for decades. Washed out campgrounds are never repaired, just closed. Everything in the park requires reservations and Aramark charges 15 per cent of the gross to the person making the reservations. Aramark owns all the concessions in most of our National Parks. We need to take back our National Parks.
There’s a park near where I live that I really want to hike in. The area was damaged in a wildfire three and a half years ago. It’s been closed ever since then. It seems like instead of repairing the trails, they’re just going to keep it closed forever.
@@darstar217maybe it takes longer than 3 years for the flora and fauna to recover enough? Is it one of those places where the fire may have made it possible for certain plants to grow and they are giving them some time before letting people back? There is a park I want to hike (haven't had a chance yet) where a trail was closed for almost 8 years now because, "Sensitive species such as the eastern timber rattlesnake and the Table Mountain pine have been disturbed by high numbers of visitors." "The duration of the closure will depend on the rate of recovery and the public's adherence to current and future use guidelines."
To much of the parks and recreation leaders in our government, people are a nuisance to deal with. They want to de-people our national parks and recreation areas.
No one seems to be pointing out the fact that the Rangers made them move 1hr before dark in several feet of snow right after an incredibly draining and taxing event. The rangers literally put the lives of three additional hikers at great risk, and then ticketed them for trying to comply. Seems pretty par for the course for law enforcement these days.
That was my first thought the Rangers didn't take into account that even though their permit was in order their time line emotional and physical status and ability to navigate to the campsite was completely compromised. Sue them!😊
That park ranger sounds like they were flaunting what little power and authority they had. I’m not saying it’s typical of all law enforcement, but I’ve had encounters where I felt like the government employee (customs and immigration) were just on a power trip. Eric you were a lot more patient and understanding than I would be!
I was just there two weeks ago. We also had an encounter with a Ranger. No snow, so we could see the trail, however there were only two signs. One sign at the trailhead showed a map and stated to camp behind the general store near the pit toilets. Another sign at the Backcountry Office said the same. We moved (in the dark at 10:00pm after hiking 16.5 hours) to camp at the first spot behind the pit toilet. Ranger came the next day and gave us a warning for not being in the correct spot. I asked him if they could put up anymore signs. There were none beyond the trailhead or backcountry office. I can’t imagine being there in snow. I should also mention, we decided to have a fire. A week before we left, I went to the South Rim Backcountry Office to ask a Ranger a few questions. They said we could have a fire in the designated fire rings. So we did. Again, the Ranger let us off with a warning, but the confusion is ridiculous and unnecessary. I questioned him about the previous response and he said they had no idea what they were talking about. Great! How do I figure out what’s allowed and what’s not if the rangers aren’t reliable?!?
It is only a suggestion, but, see if you can get every question answered with a signature or a stamp. Then you can show them the signed letter, when asked. - How does that sound? - -
Was it the Ranger's fault the hike took you sixteen hours? That's akin to saying it's okay to speed if you're running late. Secondly what fire restrictions were in effect when you were camping? Was the fire ring that you were using a permanently installed fire ring or a visitor created fire ring. I understand your frustration with the signage. I've been to parks with poor signage as well and it's frustrating.
@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Completely true, it's just that our mental and physical states of exhaustion had kicked in. We were not necessarily making the best decisions nor could orient for over a mile in the dark somewhere we'd never been before. There were no fire restrictions except for one. In the winter from October to May, the area we were in is designated as backcountry even though it has road access and living residents in cabins/lodges. Either way, we had signed a permit stating we would not make an open fire. Confused by this rule, I had asked a ranger the previous week if we could have a fire in the metal, designated fire rings, and they said we could as it was an official campground. So we did. Also, this doesn't add anything critical, but they were performing controlled burns (whole acres) in the campground while we camped there... a little unusual. The ranger apologized but said it was the ideal time and weather for them.
It is ridiculous that Eric can go to jail for a simple camping mistake. Yet there are evil people, murderers that get aways with their crimes. Unbelievable!
He didn't go to jail and he admits he was not arrested. He was mailed a citation for illegal camping, which he admitted he did. The mug shot/line up shot is not real.
@@TheLongRanger Actually, on Eric's own channel he stated that a mugshot was taken and that he now has a criminal record. To put that in perspective, if it had happened to me, I would no longer be able to come to the US to take part in the PCT as the US doesn't allow anyone with a criminal record to enter. Personally, I think this case shows the fallacy of the US judicial system - rather than take everything into consideration and throw this out before it goes to court, they pushed for maximum punishment to use Eric "as an example", thereby showing you that it's not even equal outcomes for everyone in your legal system. Don't get me wrong, Britain is no better: English courts recently ruled that the one place in the entire country that we can wild camp legally is private property, and therefore we can't camp there any more. The courts don't work for the people and they don't want justice.
It's proof that the Justice system needs a revamp. What a massive waste of tax payer money for 4 days in court going after something that should be a fine.
@@fcboomstick re: mugshot, I'm talking about the shot in the thumbnail for this video. I have no evidence about anything else you state - it's just an opinion on the actions taken by the prosecutor, which you're free to have.
@@jeffgendron1959 This story seems a whole lot of hot air for nothing honestly. If you want examples that the Justice system needs reform, I would point to examples like non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison, or police brutality - especially towards minorities - that result in the death of innocent people. If a professional backpacker gets caught camping in the wrong place... that's a much smaller violin to play. The whole "Waste of taxpayer money" just reeks of exceptionalism and privilege to me. There's plenty of places to camp in the US, as the ranger in this story tried to tell Eric and co. I think the moral of the story should really be: do the right thing yourself and if not: learn to eat your humble pie. Just my $0.02 though. I would be embarrassed myself to act in the way they're doing. In the end, he got off with a slap on the wrist.
I ran into a similar situation in a state forest in New York several years ago. Short story is that I got a ticket for camping too close to a trail - though I had a GPS and it showed that I was far enough away. The Ranger I dealt with told me GPS were inaccurate and then asked me if I had a tape measure. Once I said no, she handed me a ticket. Thankfully, the judge threw it out - I got lucky… So sorry you guys went through all of this…
Eric should immediately begin the process for expungement. Then you won’t have a criminal record. It’s insane that you had to go through this process for camping. It should only ever be a fine and never come to a misdemeanor charge. Nonsense.
I would say a 300 dollar fine per person per night would be steep but with record kept for future infringement. In this case the fine should have been dropped. He took a plea deal correctly so reversing that is not easy I'd say not worth the hassle.
I'm sorry this happened to you Eric. I am a retired law enforcement officer and in nearly all things, you have officer discretion. Unfortunately, many new or younger law enforcement officers don't understand that concept and treat everyone regardless of the incident as if they were a mass murderer. They don't comprehend the impact their actions have and understand basic humanity and compassion. The National Parks Service and the Rangers are why I avoid National Parks with a vengeance. I had a similar run-in in a National Park where I was the subject of a traffic stop for 18mph in a 15mph speed zone. Family and friends in the vehicle (while still an active law enforcement officer), young guy who starts yelling at me for going by him 3mph over the speed limit. Asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle and then draws his firearm when I say yes. I remained calm and explained my status and showed him my credentials. Then demanded to speak with their supervisor for the behavior and pointing a firearm at someone without justification. Supervisor basically blew it off and said, "If you don't like it, don't visit a National Park." Public lands that are definitively not "for the people" and absolutely out of control behavior of those expected to set the example and uphold the law. The National Parks service, Rangers and Law Enforcement have a difficult job, but their behavior is making it far worse and turning them into an enemy of the people. Almost as if they are forcing people with their rules, permits, timed entry and such to stay out of the National Parks. You derive your authority from the consent of the governed. Many have lost sight of that fact.
@@RichRich1955 and not to mention 3mph over based on their radar. Vehicle manufacturers have a +/- 5mph variance in a speedometer. Law enforcement (at least at the local/state level) are taught 8-10mph leeway. In order to establish a crime or violation, you have to establish a mental state of intentional, knowing or reckless. Did you intentionally or knowingly commit the crime or violation? Were your actions reckless? 3mph over is within a manufacturers tolerance and can’t be shown as intentional or reckless. Same as with Eric’s situation. Yeah he camped out of bounds technically. But was it intentional, knowing or reckless? Absolutely NOT. People can make an honest mistake and that doesn't necessarily constitute a crime or violation. The Government can’t even establish one of the prime components of a crime ... the mental state. The National Park Service needs a major house cleaning. They’ve been able to operate autonomously doing whatever they wish regardless of the voice of the people for far too long. Our National Parks are no longer “for the people”.
Have you looked up what National Park employees earn? They're miserable and take out their resentments on visitors of the park. They're surrounded by people who have the additional resource to enjoy our natural resources. While they're living paycheck to paycheck.
I am also a retired law enforcement officer and agree completely with what Dale said. And I would add this, If I was in their shoes I would have made sure the three of you were not suffering physically or medically yourself, And I also would have made sure you got to the right place, especially due to the sun setting. To have that much contact with that many rangers in such a short time there was nothing else going on. I would have loaded everyone up in my truck and drove you that mile and a half, even if it took multiple trips. And then I would have told Eric, "feel free to put this on TH-cam but make sure everyone knows that we're not always staffed this well, and not to expect this treatment"...simple. I hope these rangers read these comments. Dear Park Rangers, there are several ways to get compliance... Think outside the box and be very clear. Just my .02 cents
I haven't had any experiences like that myself, but I have seen some ridiculous behavior from rangers in Yosemite. Behavior that seemed to show a complete lack of backcountry experience. Behavior that didn't allow for the fact that things don't always go as planned. I also had a great experience with a SEKI ranger. She went the extra mile to help me out, and it was greatly appreciated.
insane story. Insane laws. We have a law in Norway. We call it the All Mans Right, or Freedom to Roam. We can hike and camp where ever we want. Doesn't matter if the land/forest/mountain is public or privately owned. It is a right. There are limitations, you must move on after 2-3 nights. You must leave the nature as you found it. In National Parks you can't fly a drone. Many european countries have the same kind of laws.
Yeah, it's VERY different here. If you decided to set up camp on someone's private property in the wrong place you could very easily wind up getting shot.
As a land owner sounds like theft. Uninvited “guests” will be warned and then shot🤷🏼. Europeans have no concept of US rights and are typically collective in definition and spirit. No thank you, this is why America was essentially created.
@@patticarey9016 Absolutely not. You can not camp in someones garden. You have to be at least 150m away from closest house. This happens from time to time, mostly by tourists who misunderstand the rules.
This makes me feel like we should all go out and film in a National Park and post it. I mean, we, the people, own these parks. We, as individuals, shouldn't need a permit to film in a park. It's absolutely ridiculous. So glad you both have survived this ordeal. You followed the rules and instructions in a very stressful situation.
The thing that really gets me is how on top of everything else, how unreasonable and blatantly malicious their offer was for the plea agreement. No publication of material would be a hit for so many people - loss of a 100k project and all the residual income from the videos of the whole team, also makes it near impossible to self advocate. And then all the suggested bans from all the parks and for so long? They were really going after his whole career. And admitting that they wanted to make an example out of Eric is disgusting. Right after his friend almost died. This is so messed up. I really hope Karma is a thing.
I had a similar incident happen to me, I always tried to be a good steward to the environment and national parks, including leave no trace, but my interaction with park rangers has ruined camping for me for the last few years and honestly changed my outlook on law enforcement and the courts in general.
NPS rangers pulled up on me tying para cord around a tree for a tarp in snowy conditions. They demanded I show my hands and keep them out and instead of educating me on what I did wrong they just flexed their power and really left a bad taste in my mouth as well.
I was group leader on a 3 day trip. We started late! We had my friends father of about 70 years. He had a rock fall on his ankle just as we reached the Tonto Trail East, having gone down Hermits trail. He was having trouble walking. We still had miles to get to our camp when the light ran out! We decided to camp on the trail. The next morning after getting water at Salt Springs, we hiked to Indian Gardens. Myself and another went ahead a few turns of the other four to set up 2nd camp. The ranger contacted us and was furious that we separated from the group until we pointed out that they were just 2 turns away. Then I mentioned that it was because we had an injury in our party and wanted to set up camp for him. I also said that we didn't make it to camp due to the injury and camped on the trail. He said "I bet I can find where you deficated!" He then saw the age of our friends father and stormed away! I want to add. Bring Ibuprofen! That was used to reduce swelling and allowed him to finish. Luckily what happened to you, didn't happen to us! I shared this with 2 friends involved. Omg! Sorry for your experience!
I was wondering about things like that in US. Is it really the specific person at fault or US society as a whole having some weird fetish about punishing people? Plenty of people in bible belt/conservative areas focuses on punishment not resocialization like in EU. And ya folks still have death penalty. Like whole country is going thru phase like in medieval europe.
Or he could have requested a faretta hearing and, Deny allegations in whole. (He was obviously in danger and the ranger did not help him) . They must first prove subject matter and personal jurisdiction. He should withdraw his plea.
It is a question of malum in se vs malum prohibitum. The first being evil, or morally wrong. The second being wrong because it's a rule. This is just another example of beurocracy run amok. Tax revenue generation by means of lawfare and extortion. These kinds of governmental bullying is what started the Revolutionary War. Just wondering what we can throw into Boston harbor nowadays🤔.
My daughter and I were camping in the painted desert, well we were supposed to. It was getting late; we had zero phone service and couldn't find the exact campsite. It had rained and our feet were literally sinking in the dirt. We decided to turn around and go back to the car. We had regretted not just throwing our tents out where we were. Now I don't! Thank you for this!
My dad got charged with operating a commercial river trip on a private permit. He ended up with about $100-$200 left over after it was all done. When the case got to the judge he said to the prosecutor, “You brought him here for $100? Don’t do this again.” His fine was reduced to $100. Judge should have thrown this out.
I watched Eric’s video on this and was stunned. I’m glad you, Dan, are also giving this air time. It truly bothers me that Eric now has a criminal record and this could seriously impact his ability to visit other countries and create content on international travel😊
This is especially crazy because AZT hikers camp in that area all the time without permits, hell a lot of them sleep right outside the store. This is someone making an "example" of you.
It’s interesting that Eric mentioned that he is now hesitant to go back to the national parks, because that’s exactly how I feel after I first heard this whole story. I’ve never been to one because there aren’t any near me, and I always wanted to go…..but now I’ve totally lost interest in it. Guess I’ll stick with my state parks. Adirondacks are in my back yard.
This is a pretty frustrating video to watch. Dan @ 39:50 suggests that it would have been better to go without a permit, so that no citation could be sent and this whole thing would not happen. This neglects the fact that Dan needed SAR support for what they had thought could have been a heart attack. I would opine that hiking/camping without a permit and needing SAR rescue would have been a whole 'nother level of legal hurt and public shaming. I get that we all want to be privileged to do whatever we want to do, but National Parks don't operate that way. This trip tested what was tolerated. You fucked around with all the camping where you shouldn't, and you found out what happens.
Crappy deal. Unfortunately, the law only cares about the law. However, the right thing for them to do would have been to give you a written warning and leave it at that. Just because they could prosecute doesn't mean they should!
What a load of stupid governmental control BS! What is wrong with people over there? I’m so glad I’m in Sweden where the freedom to roam and wild camp is part of our constitutional rights. That Karen judge should work with parking tickets, only.
The first time I heard about this it reminded me of Jon Conti's story about how he hit the SOS button. In his eyes he couldn't safely do what the local responding police department wanted him to do and then got blasted by the police department on their Facebook page. The post and comments point blank called him out as a TH-camr and taking stupid risks for video viewership. Episode 154 (Sep 5) on the Live Ultralight Podcast discusses this situation.
On the way into the canyon, the rangers warned them their itinerary was aggressive. Given what happened to Dan, I think it’s more appropriate to call it reckless. Dan was struggling the day before but they proceeded up anyway. I think the ticket and subsequent prosecution is less about camping out of bounds, and more about punishing a group (of pros) that was behaving recklessly, necessitating an expensive rescue.
Yours is the first reasonable comment I have seen, and you are exactly right. I like this channel, but he was warned, and they put themselves, and thus other people potentially into danger by pursuing their aggressive itinerary. That was the proximate cause of all of their problems.
I watched Eric's video of the situation. In it he related the following sequence of events: We were asked to move. We went sight seeing instead. We got back and were told to move again. We did not move where we were told to move. It is clear to me that Eric was being the kid who did not want to do something and intentionally misinterpreted what was said to him. It is unreasonable to believe he did not have GPS coordinates for his assigned campsite. And did not know he was in a no camping area. I suppose the court had a similar opinion. I expect that with the videos on the internet many people will look at a double crossing in the winter as tough hike where one can get assistance from the park staff who are not expecting to provide it. Probably best to take them down. I am 75 and it has not been too long since I did a Rim to Rim to Rim winter hike. Must faster with less drama.
Yeah not only sight seeing, but a mile and a half away *filming for commercial purposes*. The argument that they were too tired to think straight and make their way to camp rather falls apart when they had the energy to walk a mile and a half, and the thought process to be filming.
It's clear that what happened to Eric is directly connected to the bad behavior of others and to rules in many states that make it illegal to profit from the commission of a crime. There have been, sadly, plenty of people who have filmed themselves doing genuinely stupid and/or dangerous things in state and national parks. When a prosecutor is handed a case that involves someone on a commercial filming permit doing something that breaks the rules, that's where their mind is going to go. They're viewing Eric the same way they would view someone who took a paraglide off the South Rim and filmed it for social media. Is what Eric did in the same category? Of course not. But that's what prosecutors and judges unfamiliar with individual TH-cam creators see: someone who violated the rules and is making a profit off the trip where that violation took place. That's why their primary demand was taking down any video associated with the trip and why they were anxious to prosecute.
I gave you a thumbs down for your comment because you’re not seeing the forest for the trees. What was done to Eric is unconstitutional and illegal. He violated no Law and thus cannot be fined or imprisoned for his “offense” by rules and regulations. The reason Eric wasn’t arrested was because he broke no Law and any fine or prison time he might get from the Park Department is illegal.
Bet what's your address then? I'm going to come camp in your front yard. I'll set up a 10 person tent and I'll have all my friends over right in your front lawn. hope you don't mind, it's not illegal right? @@scout06171
Just go camp on a sidewalk in a major city, you wont even get kicked out, (unless someone important is coming to visit and they need to clean up!). The judge could have just done a summary judgement, fined you and ended it, not drug it out 4 or 5 months and wasted all the resources ! I really think the Rangers should have looked at the whole situation and just dropped the idea of writing a citation !
Sadly there are those in the federal land service agencies that want to keep people out of the national parks and off federal lands. In a former job I experienced it with Tonto National Forest in Arizona. I’ve also had family have experiences as part of their careers with those types of people in federal land use agencies. And voting doesn’t apply to the bureaucratic agencies sadly.
My own personal experience with the NPS in various states is that they really don’t want anyone in the National Parks. They are okay with reserving that space for themselves and for certain groups (like birding groups) to enjoy.
40:00 Eric hit it on the head. I think it is 100% intentional that the National Park Service wants people vlogging with a mirrorless camera to pay the same price and go through the same process a full film crew for a Hollywood feature film needs to go through to film on public land. Public Land is owned by the people, the land is held for the people in public trust. Requiring that kind of fee to film on land we have a right to is an overreach, and that same mentality leads to idiotic cases like this one. It's a really disheartening thing. Our tax dollars pay officials to manage and maintain these lands, how much time and money do they spend enforcing horrible regulations like this? Anyone with a brain can see how silly it is.
A very late reply here, but I feel it's important to note that this wasn't as simple of a situation as someone just taking a personal video for the memory; it was an internet personality, who, for all intents and purposes, was filming in a park for monetary gain. Not to the scale of a Hollywood film crew, but this group was still using the park commercially, technically. I feel it is justified to treat them like a film crew who is there for business, albeit on a smaller level. Perhaps a "footprint" scale would be helpful. Just my two cents regarding this specific portion of the whole incident.
My 2 cents…. Ever since covid the national parks have been severely overcrowded. As TH-camrs you have nearly 500k subs between the two of you. If they had given you a free pass and you had put that out there, it would have been advertising a free pass to the millions of viewers. On my last backpacking trip I came across no less than 4 people deficating within 10ft of the trail As public figures you do not have room to make that “close enough” call the park personnel know that more than most I bet
As a long time backpacker in and outside national parks, I pretty much agree with everything y’all covered on this video, but I would like to offer some thoughts. Like Eric, I mostly will not place blame on the rangers. They have a tough, low paying job and a passion for the outdoors and the National parks. On the other hand the NPS is just another bureaucratic governmental organization and we all understand what politics can do. As far as the justice system, it is kind of the luck of the draw in any given situation. From the Ranger perspective, I would like to recommend a really great book that a friend suggested I read. I did the Audible version. The book is: Ranger Confidential, “Living, Working and Dying in the National Parks”, by Andrea Lankford. It is from the perspective of the Park Rangers side of the multi-faceted issues that they handle year around. It is actually a really easy read/listen and very interesting enjoyable. Andrea was a Park Ranger. Enjoy! Love y’all’s videos!
Agreed that the prosecutor should have just refused the case. Also, once in court, the judge should have had the sense to admonish the prosecutor and either throw it out or reduce sentencing to just paying court costs (usually $100-200)
This is crazy to hear. I can relate 100% on the emotional stress of the aftermath of dealing with a life-threatening emergency. I have had decades of 1st aid training prior my military career. During that time in the service I was trained heavily in urgent care and being in a supervisor role. On a hunting trip with my nephew (Army veteran), he had an event where he thought he was in combat and lost. Getting him calmed and back to reality.. then to a medical facility took the whole day. Once he was back home safe.. I!! fell apart.. couldn't think straight, etc. If I had been charged with a crime afterward.. don't think that I would have been nearly as calm or professional as you.
Basically dude thought the gas station was the general store. I feel officer discretion should of been invoked and left off with a verbal warning. Considering all things presented are truthful.
That's so ridiculous. Another thing that stroke me in this story is that none of you guys that were with Eric that day propose to split the bill to help him. If something like this happens to one of my friend while I was with him that day I would definitely pay my part. That's completely unfair for Eric, he had to pay for everyone basically.
I could write a book about this, but here’s the basics: This is what happens when our Government (specifically Congress) uses organizations such as the Department of the Interior where Bureaucrats make regulations and rules they have no authority to make. Then they assess fines or penalties that ARE NOT LAW. Why does this happen? It happens because we citizens are ignorant of our Constitution and allow Congress to illegally pass legislation that creates these Bureaucracies that are run by unelected people who are not answerable to “The People”. “According to the letter of the Law”, you didn’t break any Law. You disobeyed a rule or Regulation, which is unconstitutional.
As busy as the parks are and as much as the government doesn’t want us to be out and about and thinking for ourselves, it sounds right on point. They want to deter us from doing things on our own and learning how to service without them.
I was wondering about things like that in US. Is it really the government fault or US society as a whole having some weird fetish about punishing people? Plenty of people in bible belt/conservative areas focuses on punishment not resocialization like in EU. And ya folks still have death penalty. Like whole country is going thru phase like in medieval europe.
Can you have your record expunged? I know people with identity theft charges that have. Camping 200 yards outside the camping zone in the snow after an emergency is so BEYOND ridiculous. Every person involved in bringing you to trial should be fired!
I used to use ON X Hunt all the time for hike-in fly fishing when I was living out West. I found some epic trout streams access and steelhead water with public access that many people didn’t know about. Also I think land owners appreciate you not accidentally stomping thru their cow pasture without asking. 😊
This is why you should always counter sue and never take a plea deal from any government agency. That first plea deal tells you everything about the intentions of state and judge it was malicious with intent for you to accept a lesser monetary penalty plea. That also just so happens to damage your future credibility by having a record making it harder to defend yourself next time.
I am so sorry this happened, and can really relate to this story. I worked for the Grand Canyon NP on the trail crew in 2009. I really fell in love with the canyon, and left there to work for the Forest Service in fire. They are both a bureaucratic nightmare to work for. I typically avoid national parks because I like to get away from the crowds when I go backpacking, but there is something that will always bring me back to the grand canyon. I was recently in Zion for the first time. I stayed on the west side for my entire trip to avoid the crowds. I had a backpacking permit that required going into the office to pick up in person instead of being able to print it. When I went in the ranger catastrophized everything about my trip. It is dangerous for me to go alone, the water will kill me, it is going to be too cold, it is too far of a distance... blah blah blah. Maybe it is because I am a woman who was going alone, but I am a very experienced backpacker and they just assumed I was naive. Their mission seems to be to keep people on the pavement or in the bus and make everything else as difficult as possible. It doesn't feel like public lands anymore, it feels more like a circus where you have to get a ticket and be patronized for putting yourself in such risk. I will not be going back to the Parks for a while.
I can tell you what's going on in three words: Lazy Government Workers. They want to get paid for doing nothing. You are 'putting them out' if they have to come rescue you - which happens to BE their job. I went to visit Arches a couple months ago to take my aging in-laws on a tour of Utah's biggest National parks. Sure enough, we couldn't even get in line without first making reservations. These National parks, forests, monuments, etc. are anything but national. They are federal money-makers set aside solely for foreigners to visit.
You have summed up why I prefer other public lands to national parks. Do you want to see some highly curated nature scenes from a parking lot? No? Then the national parks probably aren't for you.
As a clinical counselor, I can attest we tell people all the time not to make big decisions in the midst of a a crisis event. The fact that you weren’t sure Dan would live or die was extremely weighing on you, and seems like it was not something that Ranger, prosecutor, or judge took into consideration. It infuriates me that “the law” / “court” / NPS did not allow for some grace and mercy. I’m glad God‘s justice is so much different from man’s. True, you did something wrong, and therefore it would be totally fair for you to be punished for it, but that ignores mercy and grace for the situation around the event. Absolutely immoral and unethical in my opinion to have such grievous responses to people who are trying to do what’s right. My heart goes out to you both.
Its interesting that many countries in Europe have Roam Free laws allowing you to camp anywhere. I don't know if I like the idea of camping on private property without requesting permission. However, on public land that is how it should be. So here in the "home of the free" you can't "Roam Free" without a bunch of permits that limit you in where you can go and stay so it doesn't really seem like the "home of the free" anymore.
This is another example of National Park Employees trying to treat National Parks like their own little private kingdoms instead of acting like servants of the people.
21:05 Dan, this was a MISDEMEANOR, not a ticket. He was indeed arrested. Good thing they are wasting their legal system on someone camping in the wrong spot. 🤦🏼♂️
Terrible this happened to Eric, very sorry to hear. It sounds like a couple things went wrong on the national park service end. My predictions- heavy slap on the hand because of his social media platform. Park services most likely have to deal with delinquent people all the time i.e. one bad apple ruins it for the whole bunch. Possibly why Eric had to run through hoops on this. Also the inconsistency of the ranger information that was given. A couple hundred dollar fine, and a “hey it was a miscommunication” would have been suffice. On the larger surface though- I hope this video reaches the right people, and Eric is able to expunge his record.
Was Eric for Ed to be there? In this video he admits not wanting to go to the campground because of the distance to the trail head. Eric's a touron for leading this trip like he did and of even less intelligence for admitting that his actions were intentional in an online video.
@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Hmm… I’m not on the same page as you with information. I don’t know Eric personally, but he seems knowledgeable enough, or at least aware to avoid mistakes such as these. And, they had just gone through an emergency situation with Dan. The situation could have definitely impaired everyone’s judgement. I just think the severity of the punishment was too extreme, imo.
I had something very similar happen to me at a park in Big Sur. They said they lost our registration (or that we didn't register but we did, and we paid.). I had to go to court, they reduced it to a $300 fine but I got a misdemeanor. That impacted my job prospects due to background checks. After a few years I went through the process of getting it expunged. Absolutely ridiculous.
Eric is supposed to be a seasoned guide, he could’ve easily pin pointed the correct coordinates to the camp ground. Were y’all using the On-X app? If so, not a good demonstration of accuracy. I’m not sure why this comment keeps getting deleted, it’s not a hateful comment just genuinely curious.
Thank you for telling your story. Not a good deal for sure. I was eyewitness to a camping infringement in Chattahoochee National Forest in Georgia. Although the Ranger was pretty perturbed, because of the multi day violation and their proximity to the no camping allowed sign , he told them to pack up and be on their way. That’s what they did. No tickets just a firm word. Things certainly could’ve been handled different in your case. Especially with the circumstances and the time of year.
He admits he made a big mistake. The consequence is quite severe for his crime. However, rules are rules. If exceptions are made for one, then where will the mayhem end. I’m glad you all are safe. Rescues under these extreme conditions can be dangerous for all involved. The rangers just want to go home safely to their families. Wish you luck with this ordeal. I know of folk that went to jail for doing far less. One year probation and some type of wilderness safety and sensitivity training would be a more appropriate punishment. Again good luck!!
SMH...Eric so calmly telling his experience...a true gentleman, and I can tell a calm leader when stuff hits the fan on the trail. Dan...love your channel and what you do for the Bucket Ministry. Gents keep up the great work ❤
Dan, I’m really surprised you refused Eric’s request to cover $1000 of his legal ordeal. You guys are really good buddies and look what he did for you. In light that you were excluded from the charges, and he asked you, the least you can do is to help him out with the fines. I don’t often comment and enjoy your videos separately and especially together , but you saying you’re not going to be the one to pay the $1000 just struck a chord in this situation.
As a Norwegian, this is baffling. We care a lot about our nature and our natural parks, but policing people’s responsible enjoyment like this is unheard of.
Dan, I'm glad you were rescued and came away okay. Did you or Eric ever talk with those rangers after all of this so they could learn how unfair the outcome turned out?
@@nalonabrato8900Such BS that a TH-cam "expert" didn't have the coordinates already in his GPS, nobody else in the group had the coordinates, and nobody had the map skills to find the campground. Eric admits to talking to two people and he still wasn't sure of where the campground was. He also spent time and daylight video taping instead making it to the campground. Finally he should have known what the weather was going to be before he embarked on this trip, no one forced him to go. Eric is a touron.
26:46 the Grand Canyon Karen. Of course a woman judge won’t listen to the facts and circumstances of the case and why you camped there. Just like moms demand action they ignore the facts and it’s their way or the highway.
In my country, we'd call that judge a "someone who was wanting to get attention as a go-getter." And the solution is just "pay him/her under the table." When law enforcers and judges go beyond the spirit of the law and get so unreasonable, they're really displaying simple idiocy.
Absolutely crazy that this happens. Honestly disgusting they will let killers walk away and yet do this for camping a wee off from the right spot. Priorities are really messed up.
The NPS should be embarrassed. Based on displaying behaviors they don't care. Harrassing people who make honest mistakes, and then allowing people who commit harmful crimes to go unpunished. After hearing this it makes me think we should boycott the national parks.
Thats unbelievable... I mean, if you respect the wilderness and are out camping, enjoying nature, and leaving no mess, I don't see the problem. If you camp somewhere and trash the place then yes, you should then be prosecuted. But not in this case.
I agree with you…..the same should be applied in the cities. But it is not the case because the city mess is convenient for some politicians…..politicians like the ones behind this senseless case. Waste of public resources that can be used for something meaningful to the public
Eric is caught up in the problem of allowing commercial filming (and other for-profit uses) in National Parks. While his filming and other use is benign and he is careful and thoughtful there are plenty of others that will just come in an mess stuff up for personal gain. Because people mess things up so frequently, law enforcement gets pretty aggressive with these types of things. Unfortunate that the whoever adjudicated this didn't sort things out more thoughtfully.
The reason that you're supposed to be at a designated spot is *if* something were to happen, they know where to start looking. There was probably a bit of "we'll teach them a lesson" in the citation, as they had to use resources for a rescue. Ya, son, you got the book thrown at ya.
This past Summer, I stopped my boat along the river at one of my favorite springs, on State land. I was immediately concerned when I noticed a few LEO's. There was a couple who looked to be on meth (if you know, you know), both bleeding from the face from apparently fighting with each other being made to take down their tent and move along. They had been camping/squatting on land where it is not allowed at all. They had basically taken over the spring, a popular public swimming hole for families. No charges were filed. They actually drove away.
Our gov agencies are so corrupt. Every single one of them. They are not for the people. This sucks this happened to you Eric. I'll be praying for ya buddy.
Overreach is a thing. A fine would’ve been fine and I guess I’ll stick to state parks. You guys need to do a 2 day float down river and a hike out 3 days on the Buffalo river national park!
“We the People” own our public lands, and our tax dollars maintain them. The NPS is out of control. Geez, Dan! Reimburse Eric his expenses in full. He saved your life. Meanwhile, Eric will have a Federal criminal record for life.
In response to your question around prosecutor/judge at 33:00, you've got it backwards - the judge has discretion around sentencing, even with a plea bargain (and then you have the option to rescind your guilty plea if you don't like the altered sentence) but it undermines the relationship between judge and prosecutor so they're not likely to remove all consequences unless it's an extreme case. It sounds like the plea was up to $5000 fine and they went with $1000, which is quite reasonable without pissing off the prosecutor. But all of this involves a guilty plea, which is the real problem for him here - $1000 isn't fun but sounds like the real thing he's not happy with is a criminal record, which is mostly inevitable. There /is/ a verdict that is possible under various names depending on state - deferred judgment, deferred adjudication, stay of adjudication, to name a few - where you plea guilty, but the judge doesn't accept the guilty plea and instead defers it under some conditions, generally completing some period of probation, after successful completion of which the charges will be dropped entirely with no conviction (but if you violate your probation/any other conditions, the guilty plea will be accepted and entered as a conviction, with a sentence decided by the judge). However, this type of judgment really only ever happens with a plea bargain, if you just plea guilty without a plea bargain, the judge is almost certainly not going to defer adjudication. The prosecutor is ultimately the one responsible for whether and how the charges are prosecuted, they are the ones with the most discretion with regards to outcome. (Again, technically the judge can grant a maximally beneficial sentence, ie deferred adjudication with 1 day of probation, but that's really taking extreme liberties with their duty as judge, whereas the prosecutor is the one who's /supposed/ to have significant discretion.) Eric, if you're not aware, you can almost certainly sue for expungment after some period, which will close the records of your arrest/charges/conviction to everyone except the court, and then you'd be able to travel to countries that you currently can't travel to because of your record, unless, I guess, they looked into your history manually with things other than background checks and found your video on the whole thing, but I seriously doubt a customs agent is going to do that.
Don't count on it ever. Take a very close look where the judge gets his money from. It's not a justice system. It's a racketeer system. You'll get screwed over every time. Your only real protection from this is to do everything you can to not end up in court.
32:21 it makes me feel like they'd rather me dead than camping slightly outside the bounds, with no malicious intent.. After such a potentially traumatic event happening the night before this seems soo ridiculous.. of all situations for this to happen this should not have been one.
My family and I have made it a point to try and see as many national parks as we can in our travels. I've had a dozen or so interactions with national rangers in multiple different parks. In almost every interaction, I have gotten the overwhelming impression that we are unwelcome guests in "there" park. I really, really feel like the NPS thinks of the parks as there own personal sanctuarys and if the could, they would lock the gates and keep us all out. Parks of a more historical nature do seem to be more civil to visitors.
The fact there are permits alone means they don’t want filming. Also there being permits to film on public property that is free and open to the public is legally and constitutionally suspect.
Dude, I’m really glad you are ok! I first heard the story on Eric’s channel and then Eric’s interview on Kyle Hates Hiking. This whole thing makes me so angry. Conflicting direction of where to move camp, dealing with a medical emergency, the snow, trauma, drama, fatigue both mentally and physically and emotionally…the judge and prosecutor should be ashamed of themselves. ASHAMED!! You guys are respectful stewards of Leave No Trace. So ridiculous, the charges. Idiots.
I mean... you really should be thanking them for all this hubabaloo. It provided you with some great content, a video title that gets more views without resorting to "too much" clickbait exaggeration... and hopefully the revenue from the video more than offsets the costs of the fines!
Wow, crazy experience, I'm sorry Etic had to go through that. It seems ridiculous that the park ranger, his supervisor, the federal prosecutor, or the judge didn't use some discretion by simply asking themselves, "What was the harm?"
I live next to Olympic National Park. When a hiker goes missing, it is the parks policy to deny professional search and rescue teams with their dogs to search for the missing hiker. Drones are not permitted to search for the hiker. Washed out roads are never repaired, just closed for decades. Washed out campgrounds are never repaired, just closed. Everything in the park requires reservations and Aramark charges 15 per cent of the gross to the person making the reservations. Aramark owns all the concessions in most of our National Parks. We need to take back our National Parks.
There’s a park near where I live that I really want to hike in. The area was damaged in a wildfire three and a half years ago. It’s been closed ever since then. It seems like instead of repairing the trails, they’re just going to keep it closed forever.
What the hell
I'm actually planning to move near there soon and have been looking forward to checking it out. Do you consider it safe in general?
@@darstar217maybe it takes longer than 3 years for the flora and fauna to recover enough? Is it one of those places where the fire may have made it possible for certain plants to grow and they are giving them some time before letting people back? There is a park I want to hike (haven't had a chance yet) where a trail was closed for almost 8 years now because, "Sensitive species such as the eastern timber rattlesnake and the Table Mountain pine have been disturbed by high numbers of visitors." "The duration of the closure will depend on the rate of recovery and the public's adherence to current and future use guidelines."
To much of the parks and recreation leaders in our government, people are a nuisance to deal with. They want to de-people our national parks and recreation areas.
No one seems to be pointing out the fact that the Rangers made them move 1hr before dark in several feet of snow right after an incredibly draining and taxing event. The rangers literally put the lives of three additional hikers at great risk, and then ticketed them for trying to comply. Seems pretty par for the course for law enforcement these days.
Yes, it's crazy that the judge didn't see it this way.
That was my first thought the Rangers didn't take into account that even though their permit was in order their time line emotional and physical status and ability to navigate to the campsite was completely compromised. Sue them!😊
Exactly
Welcome to capitalism where it's Profits over People!
That park ranger sounds like they were flaunting what little power and authority they had. I’m not saying it’s typical of all law enforcement, but I’ve had encounters where I felt like the government employee (customs and immigration) were just on a power trip. Eric you were a lot more patient and understanding than I would be!
I was just there two weeks ago. We also had an encounter with a Ranger. No snow, so we could see the trail, however there were only two signs. One sign at the trailhead showed a map and stated to camp behind the general store near the pit toilets. Another sign at the Backcountry Office said the same. We moved (in the dark at 10:00pm after hiking 16.5 hours) to camp at the first spot behind the pit toilet. Ranger came the next day and gave us a warning for not being in the correct spot. I asked him if they could put up anymore signs. There were none beyond the trailhead or backcountry office. I can’t imagine being there in snow. I should also mention, we decided to have a fire. A week before we left, I went to the South Rim Backcountry Office to ask a Ranger a few questions. They said we could have a fire in the designated fire rings. So we did. Again, the Ranger let us off with a warning, but the confusion is ridiculous and unnecessary. I questioned him about the previous response and he said they had no idea what they were talking about. Great! How do I figure out what’s allowed and what’s not if the rangers aren’t reliable?!?
First mistake, asking law enforcement legal questions... They don't usually know, and they will almost always lie.
It is only a suggestion, but, see if you can get every question answered with a signature or a stamp. Then you can show them the signed letter, when asked.
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How does that sound?
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Was it the Ranger's fault the hike took you sixteen hours? That's akin to saying it's okay to speed if you're running late. Secondly what fire restrictions were in effect when you were camping? Was the fire ring that you were using a permanently installed fire ring or a visitor created fire ring. I understand your frustration with the signage. I've been to parks with poor signage as well and it's frustrating.
@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Completely true, it's just that our mental and physical states of exhaustion had kicked in. We were not necessarily making the best decisions nor could orient for over a mile in the dark somewhere we'd never been before.
There were no fire restrictions except for one. In the winter from October to May, the area we were in is designated as backcountry even though it has road access and living residents in cabins/lodges. Either way, we had signed a permit stating we would not make an open fire. Confused by this rule, I had asked a ranger the previous week if we could have a fire in the metal, designated fire rings, and they said we could as it was an official campground. So we did. Also, this doesn't add anything critical, but they were performing controlled burns (whole acres) in the campground while we camped there... a little unusual. The ranger apologized but said it was the ideal time and weather for them.
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
It is ridiculous that Eric can go to jail for a simple camping mistake. Yet there are evil people, murderers that get aways with their crimes. Unbelievable!
He didn't go to jail and he admits he was not arrested. He was mailed a citation for illegal camping, which he admitted he did. The mug shot/line up shot is not real.
@@TheLongRanger Actually, on Eric's own channel he stated that a mugshot was taken and that he now has a criminal record. To put that in perspective, if it had happened to me, I would no longer be able to come to the US to take part in the PCT as the US doesn't allow anyone with a criminal record to enter. Personally, I think this case shows the fallacy of the US judicial system - rather than take everything into consideration and throw this out before it goes to court, they pushed for maximum punishment to use Eric "as an example", thereby showing you that it's not even equal outcomes for everyone in your legal system. Don't get me wrong, Britain is no better: English courts recently ruled that the one place in the entire country that we can wild camp legally is private property, and therefore we can't camp there any more. The courts don't work for the people and they don't want justice.
It's proof that the Justice system needs a revamp. What a massive waste of tax payer money for 4 days in court going after something that should be a fine.
@@fcboomstick re: mugshot, I'm talking about the shot in the thumbnail for this video. I have no evidence about anything else you state - it's just an opinion on the actions taken by the prosecutor, which you're free to have.
@@jeffgendron1959 This story seems a whole lot of hot air for nothing honestly. If you want examples that the Justice system needs reform, I would point to examples like non-violent drug offenders rotting away in prison, or police brutality - especially towards minorities - that result in the death of innocent people. If a professional backpacker gets caught camping in the wrong place... that's a much smaller violin to play. The whole "Waste of taxpayer money" just reeks of exceptionalism and privilege to me. There's plenty of places to camp in the US, as the ranger in this story tried to tell Eric and co. I think the moral of the story should really be: do the right thing yourself and if not: learn to eat your humble pie. Just my $0.02 though. I would be embarrassed myself to act in the way they're doing. In the end, he got off with a slap on the wrist.
I ran into a similar situation in a state forest in New York several years ago. Short story is that I got a ticket for camping too close to a trail - though I had a GPS and it showed that I was far enough away. The Ranger I dealt with told me GPS were inaccurate and then asked me if I had a tape measure. Once I said no, she handed me a ticket. Thankfully, the judge threw it out - I got lucky…
So sorry you guys went through all of this…
Actually, civilian GPS is deliberately off to prevent terrorist attacks. But, Rangers should know this and be more accommodating.
It’s really sad that nobody, throughout the process, considered the whole situation and stepped up and threw the case out.
Government workers.
That wouldn't make them any profit ;)
Eric should immediately begin the process for expungement. Then you won’t have a criminal record. It’s insane that you had to go through this process for camping. It should only ever be a fine and never come to a misdemeanor charge. Nonsense.
I would say a 300 dollar fine per person per night would be steep but with record kept for future infringement. In this case the fine should have been dropped. He took a plea deal correctly so reversing that is not easy I'd say not worth the hassle.
I'm sorry this happened to you Eric. I am a retired law enforcement officer and in nearly all things, you have officer discretion. Unfortunately, many new or younger law enforcement officers don't understand that concept and treat everyone regardless of the incident as if they were a mass murderer. They don't comprehend the impact their actions have and understand basic humanity and compassion. The National Parks Service and the Rangers are why I avoid National Parks with a vengeance. I had a similar run-in in a National Park where I was the subject of a traffic stop for 18mph in a 15mph speed zone. Family and friends in the vehicle (while still an active law enforcement officer), young guy who starts yelling at me for going by him 3mph over the speed limit. Asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle and then draws his firearm when I say yes. I remained calm and explained my status and showed him my credentials. Then demanded to speak with their supervisor for the behavior and pointing a firearm at someone without justification. Supervisor basically blew it off and said, "If you don't like it, don't visit a National Park." Public lands that are definitively not "for the people" and absolutely out of control behavior of those expected to set the example and uphold the law. The National Parks service, Rangers and Law Enforcement have a difficult job, but their behavior is making it far worse and turning them into an enemy of the people. Almost as if they are forcing people with their rules, permits, timed entry and such to stay out of the National Parks. You derive your authority from the consent of the governed. Many have lost sight of that fact.
Sometimes we're driving and try hard to obey speed limits but seriously, are we supposed to look at the damn speedometer every second?
@@RichRich1955 and not to mention 3mph over based on their radar. Vehicle manufacturers have a +/- 5mph variance in a speedometer. Law enforcement (at least at the local/state level) are taught 8-10mph leeway. In order to establish a crime or violation, you have to establish a mental state of intentional, knowing or reckless. Did you intentionally or knowingly commit the crime or violation? Were your actions reckless? 3mph over is within a manufacturers tolerance and can’t be shown as intentional or reckless. Same as with Eric’s situation. Yeah he camped out of bounds technically. But was it intentional, knowing or reckless? Absolutely NOT. People can make an honest mistake and that doesn't necessarily constitute a crime or violation. The Government can’t even establish one of the prime components of a crime ... the mental state. The National Park Service needs a major house cleaning. They’ve been able to operate autonomously doing whatever they wish regardless of the voice of the people for far too long. Our National Parks are no longer “for the people”.
Have you looked up what National Park employees earn? They're miserable and take out their resentments on visitors of the park. They're surrounded by people who have the additional resource to enjoy our natural resources. While they're living paycheck to paycheck.
I am also a retired law enforcement officer and agree completely with what Dale said. And I would add this, If I was in their shoes I would have made sure the three of you were not suffering physically or medically yourself, And I also would have made sure you got to the right place, especially due to the sun setting. To have that much contact with that many rangers in such a short time there was nothing else going on. I would have loaded everyone up in my truck and drove you that mile and a half, even if it took multiple trips. And then I would have told Eric, "feel free to put this on TH-cam but make sure everyone knows that we're not always staffed this well, and not to expect this treatment"...simple.
I hope these rangers read these comments. Dear Park Rangers, there are several ways to get compliance... Think outside the box and be very clear. Just my .02 cents
I haven't had any experiences like that myself, but I have seen some ridiculous behavior from rangers in Yosemite. Behavior that seemed to show a complete lack of backcountry experience. Behavior that didn't allow for the fact that things don't always go as planned. I also had a great experience with a SEKI ranger. She went the extra mile to help me out, and it was greatly appreciated.
insane story. Insane laws. We have a law in Norway. We call it the All Mans Right, or Freedom to Roam. We can hike and camp where ever we want. Doesn't matter if the land/forest/mountain is public or privately owned. It is a right. There are limitations, you must move on after 2-3 nights. You must leave the nature as you found it. In National Parks you can't fly a drone. Many european countries have the same kind of laws.
Yeah, it's VERY different here. If you decided to set up camp on someone's private property in the wrong place you could very easily wind up getting shot.
As a land owner sounds like theft. Uninvited “guests” will be warned and then shot🤷🏼. Europeans have no concept of US rights and are typically collective in definition and spirit. No thank you, this is why America was essentially created.
Yep, Americans proclaim "Freedom" but what freedom do they really have?
So in Norway, someone could set up a tent on my front lawn at my house and there would be nothing I could do about it?
@@patticarey9016 Absolutely not. You can not camp in someones garden. You have to be at least 150m away from closest house. This happens from time to time, mostly by tourists who misunderstand the rules.
This makes me feel like we should all go out and film in a National Park and post it. I mean, we, the people, own these parks. We, as individuals, shouldn't need a permit to film in a park. It's absolutely ridiculous. So glad you both have survived this ordeal. You followed the rules and instructions in a very stressful situation.
The thing that really gets me is how on top of everything else, how unreasonable and blatantly malicious their offer was for the plea agreement. No publication of material would be a hit for so many people - loss of a 100k project and all the residual income from the videos of the whole team, also makes it near impossible to self advocate. And then all the suggested bans from all the parks and for so long? They were really going after his whole career. And admitting that they wanted to make an example out of Eric is disgusting. Right after his friend almost died. This is so messed up. I really hope Karma is a thing.
Dan, make a petition to appeal! We will support Eric.
I had a similar incident happen to me, I always tried to be a good steward to the environment and national parks, including leave no trace, but my interaction with park rangers has ruined camping for me for the last few years and honestly changed my outlook on law enforcement and the courts in general.
NPS rangers pulled up on me tying para cord around a tree for a tarp in snowy conditions. They demanded I show my hands and keep them out and instead of educating me on what I did wrong they just flexed their power and really left a bad taste in my mouth as well.
@@ixxxdeathbatxxxiummm what's the law about paracord and trees?
I was group leader on a 3 day trip. We started late! We had my friends father of about 70 years. He had a rock fall on his ankle just as we reached the Tonto Trail East, having gone down Hermits trail. He was having trouble walking. We still had miles to get to our camp when the light ran out! We decided to camp on the trail. The next morning after getting water at Salt Springs, we hiked to Indian Gardens. Myself and another went ahead a few turns of the other four to set up 2nd camp. The ranger contacted us and was furious that we separated from the group until we pointed out that they were just 2 turns away. Then I mentioned that it was because we had an injury in our party and wanted to set up camp for him. I also said that we didn't make it to camp due to the injury and camped on the trail. He said "I bet I can find where you deficated!" He then saw the age of our friends father and stormed away! I want to add. Bring Ibuprofen! That was used to reduce swelling and allowed him to finish. Luckily what happened to you, didn't happen to us! I shared this with 2 friends involved. Omg! Sorry for your experience!
It's total BS. That ranger obviously has a power trip.
Sadly, it's no surprise. Our worlds gone down hill and g@me & f1sh are the animal ab0rtin1sts of our nation.
The ranger... maybe. The prosecutor is for sure power tripping.
I was wondering about things like that in US. Is it really the specific person at fault or US society as a whole having some weird fetish about punishing people? Plenty of people in bible belt/conservative areas focuses on punishment not resocialization like in EU. And ya folks still have death penalty. Like whole country is going thru phase like in medieval europe.
Eric should get Devon from Legal Eagle to review the legal aspects of this whole ordeal. It would be nice to have a lawyer's perspective on this.
Yes!!! I was thinking the same thing.
Yes me also@@bodymindhealth4u
Or he could have requested a faretta hearing and, Deny allegations in whole. (He was obviously in danger and the ranger did not help him) . They must first prove subject matter and personal jurisdiction.
He should withdraw his plea.
Situations like this require jury nullification.
It is a question of malum in se vs malum prohibitum. The first being evil, or morally wrong. The second being wrong because it's a rule. This is just another example of beurocracy run amok. Tax revenue generation by means of lawfare and extortion. These kinds of governmental bullying is what started the Revolutionary War. Just wondering what we can throw into Boston harbor nowadays🤔.
My daughter and I were camping in the painted desert, well we were supposed to. It was getting late; we had zero phone service and couldn't find the exact campsite. It had rained and our feet were literally sinking in the dirt. We decided to turn around and go back to the car. We had regretted not just throwing our tents out where we were. Now I don't! Thank you for this!
My dad got charged with operating a commercial river trip on a private permit. He ended up with about $100-$200 left over after it was all done. When the case got to the judge he said to the prosecutor, “You brought him here for $100? Don’t do this again.” His fine was reduced to $100. Judge should have thrown this out.
A lot of judges won't stand up to them. Amazing!!!
I watched Eric’s video on this and was stunned. I’m glad you, Dan, are also giving this air time. It truly bothers me that Eric now has a criminal record and this could seriously impact his ability to visit other countries and create content on international travel😊
This is especially crazy because AZT hikers camp in that area all the time without permits, hell a lot of them sleep right outside the store. This is someone making an "example" of you.
It’s interesting that Eric mentioned that he is now hesitant to go back to the national parks, because that’s exactly how I feel after I first heard this whole story. I’ve never been to one because there aren’t any near me, and I always wanted to go…..but now I’ve totally lost interest in it. Guess I’ll stick with my state parks. Adirondacks are in my back yard.
In real life, it was just a citation. Not a big deal. Don't be skerd :)
@@Frindleeguymiddemenor is. Criminal charge not an infraction
@@Frindleeguy citations don’t get you fingerprinted with the feds as part of the conditions of the sentence.
This is a pretty frustrating video to watch. Dan @ 39:50 suggests that it would have been better to go without a permit, so that no citation could be sent and this whole thing would not happen. This neglects the fact that Dan needed SAR support for what they had thought could have been a heart attack. I would opine that hiking/camping without a permit and needing SAR rescue would have been a whole 'nother level of legal hurt and public shaming. I get that we all want to be privileged to do whatever we want to do, but National Parks don't operate that way. This trip tested what was tolerated. You fucked around with all the camping where you shouldn't, and you found out what happens.
I agree. They all would've suffered a huge fine and court time had they been there without a permit while Dan needed SAR support.
Fair play for standing your ground. It's not right this happened even with the circumstances. Hope things are alright. Great video. Love watching ❤❤.
Well Dan, you can still contribute to Eric's fine❤
Crappy deal. Unfortunately, the law only cares about the law. However, the right thing for them to do would have been to give you a written warning and leave it at that. Just because they could prosecute doesn't mean they should!
What a load of stupid governmental control BS! What is wrong with people over there? I’m so glad I’m in Sweden where the freedom to roam and wild camp is part of our constitutional rights. That Karen judge should work with parking tickets, only.
America has become a police state but they just can't admit it to themselves.
The first time I heard about this it reminded me of Jon Conti's story about how he hit the SOS button. In his eyes he couldn't safely do what the local responding police department wanted him to do and then got blasted by the police department on their Facebook page. The post and comments point blank called him out as a TH-camr and taking stupid risks for video viewership. Episode 154 (Sep 5) on the Live Ultralight Podcast discusses this situation.
That is what it reminded me of, too.
The real sad story here is that he couldn't defend himself against stupidity.
On the way into the canyon, the rangers warned them their itinerary was aggressive. Given what happened to Dan, I think it’s more appropriate to call it reckless. Dan was struggling the day before but they proceeded up anyway. I think the ticket and subsequent prosecution is less about camping out of bounds, and more about punishing a group (of pros) that was behaving recklessly, necessitating an expensive rescue.
Yours is the first reasonable comment I have seen, and you are exactly right. I like this channel, but he was warned, and they put themselves, and thus other people potentially into danger by pursuing their aggressive itinerary. That was the proximate cause of all of their problems.
I watched Eric's video of the situation. In it he related the following sequence of events: We were asked to move. We went sight seeing instead. We got back and were told to move again. We did not move where we were told to move.
It is clear to me that Eric was being the kid who did not want to do something and intentionally misinterpreted what was said to him.
It is unreasonable to believe he did not have GPS coordinates for his assigned campsite. And did not know he was in a no camping area. I suppose the court had a similar opinion.
I expect that with the videos on the internet many people will look at a double crossing in the winter as tough hike where one can get assistance from the park staff who are not expecting to provide it. Probably best to take them down.
I am 75 and it has not been too long since I did a Rim to Rim to Rim winter hike. Must faster with less drama.
Yeah not only sight seeing, but a mile and a half away *filming for commercial purposes*. The argument that they were too tired to think straight and make their way to camp rather falls apart when they had the energy to walk a mile and a half, and the thought process to be filming.
Sounds like we should rename "National Parks" to "Federal Parks."
"Heavily supervised and restricted Parks"
@@agentmikster44 "Irrational Parks"
Government property
@@rangerdoc1029 Confrontational Parks
Unfortunately so.
It's clear that what happened to Eric is directly connected to the bad behavior of others and to rules in many states that make it illegal to profit from the commission of a crime. There have been, sadly, plenty of people who have filmed themselves doing genuinely stupid and/or dangerous things in state and national parks. When a prosecutor is handed a case that involves someone on a commercial filming permit doing something that breaks the rules, that's where their mind is going to go. They're viewing Eric the same way they would view someone who took a paraglide off the South Rim and filmed it for social media.
Is what Eric did in the same category? Of course not. But that's what prosecutors and judges unfamiliar with individual TH-cam creators see: someone who violated the rules and is making a profit off the trip where that violation took place. That's why their primary demand was taking down any video associated with the trip and why they were anxious to prosecute.
I gave you a thumbs down for your comment because you’re not seeing the forest for the trees. What was done to Eric is unconstitutional and illegal. He violated no Law and thus cannot be fined or imprisoned for his “offense” by rules and regulations.
The reason Eric wasn’t arrested was because he broke no Law and any fine or prison time he might get from the Park Department is illegal.
Bet what's your address then? I'm going to come camp in your front yard. I'll set up a 10 person tent and I'll have all my friends over right in your front lawn. hope you don't mind, it's not illegal right? @@scout06171
No offense but they probably were not happy yall went there under terrible conditions and requested a rescue for a rabdo case.
Thought my biggest fear was being cold or getting injured. Nope, THIS is my new biggest fear!!!
I think the judge accomplished what she wanted. She got the word out that you will be prosecuted IF you camp out of bounds in the Grand Canyon.
Strongly disagree. what the judge is going to get is people staying away from the Grand canyon, further reducing revenue and further hurting the park.
Hello from Beautiful British Columbia Canada 🇨🇦
As a foreigner
Makes one leary of visiting🎉😂❤
Our parks aren't much better, just less employees to ruin it
Just go camp on a sidewalk in a major city, you wont even get kicked out, (unless someone important is coming to visit and they need to clean up!). The judge could have just done a summary judgement, fined you and ended it, not drug it out 4 or 5 months and wasted all the resources ! I really think the Rangers should have looked at the whole situation and just dropped the idea of writing a citation !
Sadly there are those in the federal land service agencies that want to keep people out of the national parks and off federal lands. In a former job I experienced it with Tonto National Forest in Arizona. I’ve also had family have experiences as part of their careers with those types of people in federal land use agencies. And voting doesn’t apply to the bureaucratic agencies sadly.
My own personal experience with the NPS in various states is that they really don’t want anyone in the National Parks. They are okay with reserving that space for themselves and for certain groups (like birding groups) to enjoy.
All national parks are is government reserved land they will eventually sell to the best bidder
40:00 Eric hit it on the head. I think it is 100% intentional that the National Park Service wants people vlogging with a mirrorless camera to pay the same price and go through the same process a full film crew for a Hollywood feature film needs to go through to film on public land. Public Land is owned by the people, the land is held for the people in public trust. Requiring that kind of fee to film on land we have a right to is an overreach, and that same mentality leads to idiotic cases like this one. It's a really disheartening thing.
Our tax dollars pay officials to manage and maintain these lands, how much time and money do they spend enforcing horrible regulations like this? Anyone with a brain can see how silly it is.
A very late reply here, but I feel it's important to note that this wasn't as simple of a situation as someone just taking a personal video for the memory; it was an internet personality, who, for all intents and purposes, was filming in a park for monetary gain. Not to the scale of a Hollywood film crew, but this group was still using the park commercially, technically. I feel it is justified to treat them like a film crew who is there for business, albeit on a smaller level. Perhaps a "footprint" scale would be helpful. Just my two cents regarding this specific portion of the whole incident.
My 2 cents…. Ever since covid the national parks have been severely overcrowded. As TH-camrs you have nearly 500k subs between the two of you. If they had given you a free pass and you had put that out there, it would have been advertising a free pass to the millions of viewers.
On my last backpacking trip I came across no less than 4 people deficating within 10ft of the trail
As public figures you do not have room to make that “close enough” call the park personnel know that more than most I bet
As a long time backpacker in and outside national parks, I pretty much agree with everything y’all covered on this video, but I would like to offer some thoughts. Like Eric, I mostly will not place blame on the rangers. They have a tough, low paying job and a passion for the outdoors and the National parks. On the other hand the NPS is just another bureaucratic governmental organization and we all understand what politics can do. As far as the justice system, it is kind of the luck of the draw in any given situation. From the Ranger perspective, I would like to recommend a really great book that a friend suggested I read. I did the Audible version. The book is: Ranger Confidential, “Living, Working and Dying in the National Parks”, by Andrea Lankford. It is from the perspective of the Park Rangers side of the multi-faceted issues that they handle year around. It is actually a really easy read/listen and very interesting enjoyable. Andrea was a Park Ranger. Enjoy! Love y’all’s videos!
Agreed that the prosecutor should have just refused the case. Also, once in court, the judge should have had the sense to admonish the prosecutor and either throw it out or reduce sentencing to just paying court costs (usually $100-200)
This is crazy to hear.
I can relate 100% on the emotional stress of the aftermath of dealing with a life-threatening emergency.
I have had decades of 1st aid training prior my military career. During that time in the service I was trained heavily in urgent care and being in a supervisor role.
On a hunting trip with my nephew (Army veteran), he had an event where he thought he was in combat and lost. Getting him calmed and back to reality.. then to a medical facility took the whole day.
Once he was back home safe.. I!! fell apart.. couldn't think straight, etc.
If I had been charged with a crime afterward.. don't think that I would have been nearly as calm or professional as you.
Basically dude thought the gas station was the general store. I feel officer discretion should of been invoked and left off with a verbal warning. Considering all things presented are truthful.
That's so ridiculous. Another thing that stroke me in this story is that none of you guys that were with Eric that day propose to split the bill to help him. If something like this happens to one of my friend while I was with him that day I would definitely pay my part. That's completely unfair for Eric, he had to pay for everyone basically.
Just because they didn't talk about it doesn't mean it didn't happen
he was the guide, it was his call
I could write a book about this, but here’s the basics: This is what happens when our Government (specifically Congress) uses organizations such as the Department of the Interior where Bureaucrats make regulations and rules they have no authority to make. Then they assess fines or penalties that ARE NOT LAW.
Why does this happen? It happens because we citizens are ignorant of our Constitution and allow Congress to illegally pass legislation that creates these Bureaucracies that are run by unelected people who are not answerable to “The People”.
“According to the letter of the Law”, you didn’t break any Law. You disobeyed a rule or Regulation, which is unconstitutional.
As busy as the parks are and as much as the government doesn’t want us to be out and about and thinking for ourselves, it sounds right on point. They want to deter us from doing things on our own and learning how to service without them.
I was wondering about things like that in US. Is it really the government fault or US society as a whole having some weird fetish about punishing people? Plenty of people in bible belt/conservative areas focuses on punishment not resocialization like in EU. And ya folks still have death penalty. Like whole country is going thru phase like in medieval europe.
Can you have your record expunged? I know people with identity theft charges that have. Camping 200 yards outside the camping zone in the snow after an emergency is so BEYOND ridiculous. Every person involved in bringing you to trial should be fired!
I used to use ON X Hunt all the time for hike-in fly fishing when I was living out West. I found some epic trout streams access and steelhead water with public access that many people didn’t know about. Also I think land owners appreciate you not accidentally stomping thru their cow pasture without asking. 😊
This is why you should always counter sue and never take a plea deal from any government agency. That first plea deal tells you everything about the intentions of state and judge it was malicious with intent for you to accept a lesser monetary penalty plea. That also just so happens to damage your future credibility by having a record making it harder to defend yourself next time.
I am so sorry this happened, and can really relate to this story. I worked for the Grand Canyon NP on the trail crew in 2009. I really fell in love with the canyon, and left there to work for the Forest Service in fire. They are both a bureaucratic nightmare to work for. I typically avoid national parks because I like to get away from the crowds when I go backpacking, but there is something that will always bring me back to the grand canyon. I was recently in Zion for the first time. I stayed on the west side for my entire trip to avoid the crowds. I had a backpacking permit that required going into the office to pick up in person instead of being able to print it. When I went in the ranger catastrophized everything about my trip. It is dangerous for me to go alone, the water will kill me, it is going to be too cold, it is too far of a distance... blah blah blah. Maybe it is because I am a woman who was going alone, but I am a very experienced backpacker and they just assumed I was naive. Their mission seems to be to keep people on the pavement or in the bus and make everything else as difficult as possible. It doesn't feel like public lands anymore, it feels more like a circus where you have to get a ticket and be patronized for putting yourself in such risk. I will not be going back to the Parks for a while.
I can tell you what's going on in three words: Lazy Government Workers. They want to get paid for doing nothing. You are 'putting them out' if they have to come rescue you - which happens to BE their job. I went to visit Arches a couple months ago to take my aging in-laws on a tour of Utah's biggest National parks. Sure enough, we couldn't even get in line without first making reservations. These National parks, forests, monuments, etc. are anything but national. They are federal money-makers set aside solely for foreigners to visit.
You have summed up why I prefer other public lands to national parks. Do you want to see some highly curated nature scenes from a parking lot? No? Then the national parks probably aren't for you.
Exactly!
As a clinical counselor, I can attest we tell people all the time not to make big decisions in the midst of a a crisis event. The fact that you weren’t sure Dan would live or die was extremely weighing on you, and seems like it was not something that Ranger, prosecutor, or judge took into consideration. It infuriates me that “the law” / “court” / NPS did not allow for some grace and mercy. I’m glad God‘s justice is so much different from man’s. True, you did something wrong, and therefore it would be totally fair for you to be punished for it, but that ignores mercy and grace for the situation around the event. Absolutely immoral and unethical in my opinion to have such grievous responses to people who are trying to do what’s right. My heart goes out to you both.
Amen
Completely unreal. There are entire encampments in city parks full of drugs weapons stolen items criminals etc but 200 yds off in the snow. Unreal
Its interesting that many countries in Europe have Roam Free laws allowing you to camp anywhere. I don't know if I like the idea of camping on private property without requesting permission. However, on public land that is how it should be. So here in the "home of the free" you can't "Roam Free" without a bunch of permits that limit you in where you can go and stay so it doesn't really seem like the "home of the free" anymore.
This is another example of National Park Employees trying to treat National Parks like their own little private kingdoms instead of acting like servants of the people.
21:05 Dan, this was a MISDEMEANOR, not a ticket. He was indeed arrested.
Good thing they are wasting their legal system on someone camping in the wrong spot. 🤦🏼♂️
Terrible this happened to Eric, very sorry to hear. It sounds like a couple things went wrong on the national park service end. My predictions- heavy slap on the hand because of his social media platform. Park services most likely have to deal with delinquent people all the time i.e. one bad apple ruins it for the whole bunch. Possibly why Eric had to run through hoops on this. Also the inconsistency of the ranger information that was given. A couple hundred dollar fine, and a “hey it was a miscommunication” would have been suffice. On the larger surface though- I hope this video reaches the right people, and Eric is able to expunge his record.
Was Eric for Ed to be there? In this video he admits not wanting to go to the campground because of the distance to the trail head. Eric's a touron for leading this trip like he did and of even less intelligence for admitting that his actions were intentional in an online video.
@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Hmm… I’m not on the same page as you with information. I don’t know Eric personally, but he seems knowledgeable enough, or at least aware to avoid mistakes such as these. And, they had just gone through an emergency situation with Dan. The situation could have definitely impaired everyone’s judgement. I just think the severity of the punishment was too extreme, imo.
I had something very similar happen to me at a park in Big Sur. They said they lost our registration (or that we didn't register but we did, and we paid.). I had to go to court, they reduced it to a $300 fine but I got a misdemeanor. That impacted my job prospects due to background checks. After a few years I went through the process of getting it expunged. Absolutely ridiculous.
It ought to be you sending him a grand being since he saves your friggin life
Thank you for sharing your story. There is an important lesson here for all potential visitors to our national parks. May we all be thus forewarned.
Eric is supposed to be a seasoned guide, he could’ve easily pin pointed the correct coordinates to the camp ground. Were y’all using the On-X app? If so, not a good demonstration of accuracy. I’m not sure why this comment keeps getting deleted, it’s not a hateful comment just genuinely curious.
Ranger told him he was okay anywhere behind the store and that's what he did. You don't sound curious, you sound like a shill
Your buddy almost died, you're exhausted, drained, etc.
Leave the trail and check on your buddy.
Maybe that's the lesson here.
Thank you for telling your story. Not a good deal for sure. I was eyewitness to a camping infringement in Chattahoochee National Forest in Georgia. Although the Ranger was pretty perturbed, because of the multi day violation and their proximity to the no camping allowed sign , he told them to pack up and be on their way. That’s what they did. No tickets just a firm word. Things certainly could’ve been handled different in your case. Especially with the circumstances and the time of year.
He admits he made a big mistake. The consequence is quite severe for his crime. However, rules are rules. If exceptions are made for one, then where will the mayhem end. I’m glad you all are safe. Rescues under these extreme conditions can be dangerous for all involved. The rangers just want to go home safely to their families. Wish you luck with this ordeal. I know of folk that went to jail for doing far less. One year probation and some type of wilderness safety and sensitivity training would be a more appropriate punishment. Again good luck!!
This is what happens in a police state......reminds me of Code Enforcement in my town. Brutal. Like 20 yrs in prison for trespassing? hmmmmmm.
SMH...Eric so calmly telling his experience...a true gentleman, and I can tell a calm leader when stuff hits the fan on the trail. Dan...love your channel and what you do for the Bucket Ministry. Gents keep up the great work ❤
Our tax dollars, wasted.
Dan, I’m really surprised you refused Eric’s request to cover $1000 of his legal ordeal. You guys are really good buddies and look what he did for you. In light that you were excluded from the charges, and he asked you, the least you can do is to help him out with the fines. I don’t often comment and enjoy your videos separately and especially together , but you saying you’re not going to be the one to pay the $1000 just struck a chord in this situation.
He didn’t ask him to pay his fine. He was joking with him and Dan said he would’ve paid it if he had asked him.
We need a podcast with you two talking about your outings, adventures, and gear.
ERIC, can your legal record be eventually expunged?
As a Norwegian, this is baffling. We care a lot about our nature and our natural parks, but policing people’s responsible enjoyment like this is unheard of.
It is obvious. They wanted to make an example of you. You have a TH-cam following and now we are all warned. it is classic!
I was wondering where you’ve been. Good to see you’re okay. And that sucks about Eric! Smart move to get an attorney.
Dan, I'm glad you were rescued and came away okay. Did you or Eric ever talk with those rangers after all of this so they could learn how unfair the outcome turned out?
I agree. I’d reach out to the actual NP employees Eric had contact with for their perspectives. Such BS!
@@nalonabrato8900Such BS that a TH-cam "expert" didn't have the coordinates already in his GPS, nobody else in the group had the coordinates, and nobody had the map skills to find the campground. Eric admits to talking to two people and he still wasn't sure of where the campground was. He also spent time and daylight video taping instead making it to the campground. Finally he should have known what the weather was going to be before he embarked on this trip, no one forced him to go. Eric is a touron.
Not an NPS ranger right now but I am a ranger. As a ranger my perspective is that Eric's a touron. @@nalonabrato8900
@@benjaminwright-rj9xc Is Eric deserving of being prosecuted for this event?
26:46 the Grand Canyon Karen. Of course a woman judge won’t listen to the facts and circumstances of the case and why you camped there. Just like moms demand action they ignore the facts and it’s their way or the highway.
The irony of them not wanting the channels to publish it! If they would have overlooked it, we wouldn’t be watching this. 🙄
In my country, we'd call that judge a "someone who was wanting to get attention as a go-getter." And the solution is just "pay him/her under the table." When law enforcers and judges go beyond the spirit of the law and get so unreasonable, they're really displaying simple idiocy.
Absolutely crazy that this happens. Honestly disgusting they will let killers walk away and yet do this for camping a wee off from the right spot. Priorities are really messed up.
The NPS should be embarrassed. Based on displaying behaviors they don't care. Harrassing people who make honest mistakes, and then allowing people who commit harmful crimes to go unpunished. After hearing this it makes me think we should boycott the national parks.
Thats unbelievable... I mean, if you respect the wilderness and are out camping, enjoying nature, and leaving no mess, I don't see the problem. If you camp somewhere and trash the place then yes, you should then be prosecuted. But not in this case.
I agree with you…..the same should be applied in the cities. But it is not the case because the city mess is convenient for some politicians…..politicians like the ones behind this senseless case. Waste of public resources that can be used for something meaningful to the public
There is definitely a movement within the Department of Interior to discourage any public use of public lands.
Eric is caught up in the problem of allowing commercial filming (and other for-profit uses) in National Parks. While his filming and other use is benign and he is careful and thoughtful there are plenty of others that will just come in an mess stuff up for personal gain. Because people mess things up so frequently, law enforcement gets pretty aggressive with these types of things. Unfortunate that the whoever adjudicated this didn't sort things out more thoughtfully.
The reason that you're supposed to be at a designated spot is *if* something were to happen, they know where to start looking. There was probably a bit of "we'll teach them a lesson" in the citation, as they had to use resources for a rescue. Ya, son, you got the book thrown at ya.
I feel like you guys have never dealt with cops or the law, this is exactly how they treat everyone.
Thanks for sharing this story. Of all the injustices, this is right at the top. It is authority run amuck.
I have watched Eric’s video and Dan’s. I feel personally violated for you, Eric. All legal parties involved should be embarrassed.
This past Summer, I stopped my boat along the river at one of my favorite springs, on State land. I was immediately concerned when I noticed a few LEO's. There was a couple who looked to be on meth (if you know, you know), both bleeding from the face from apparently fighting with each other being made to take down their tent and move along. They had been camping/squatting on land where it is not allowed at all. They had basically taken over the spring, a popular public swimming hole for families. No charges were filed. They actually drove away.
You guys are right. This is absurd that they would charge this. Shame on the NPS
You’d think a small fine would be sufficient if no damage or garbage was done. What a miss use of government resources.
Our gov agencies are so corrupt. Every single one of them. They are not for the people. This sucks this happened to you Eric. I'll be praying for ya buddy.
Overreach is a thing. A fine would’ve been fine and I guess I’ll stick to state parks. You guys need to do a 2 day float down river and a hike out 3 days on the Buffalo river national park!
“We the People” own our public lands, and our tax dollars maintain them. The NPS is out of control. Geez, Dan! Reimburse Eric his expenses in full. He saved your life. Meanwhile, Eric will have a Federal criminal record for life.
In response to your question around prosecutor/judge at 33:00, you've got it backwards - the judge has discretion around sentencing, even with a plea bargain (and then you have the option to rescind your guilty plea if you don't like the altered sentence) but it undermines the relationship between judge and prosecutor so they're not likely to remove all consequences unless it's an extreme case. It sounds like the plea was up to $5000 fine and they went with $1000, which is quite reasonable without pissing off the prosecutor. But all of this involves a guilty plea, which is the real problem for him here - $1000 isn't fun but sounds like the real thing he's not happy with is a criminal record, which is mostly inevitable. There /is/ a verdict that is possible under various names depending on state - deferred judgment, deferred adjudication, stay of adjudication, to name a few - where you plea guilty, but the judge doesn't accept the guilty plea and instead defers it under some conditions, generally completing some period of probation, after successful completion of which the charges will be dropped entirely with no conviction (but if you violate your probation/any other conditions, the guilty plea will be accepted and entered as a conviction, with a sentence decided by the judge). However, this type of judgment really only ever happens with a plea bargain, if you just plea guilty without a plea bargain, the judge is almost certainly not going to defer adjudication. The prosecutor is ultimately the one responsible for whether and how the charges are prosecuted, they are the ones with the most discretion with regards to outcome. (Again, technically the judge can grant a maximally beneficial sentence, ie deferred adjudication with 1 day of probation, but that's really taking extreme liberties with their duty as judge, whereas the prosecutor is the one who's /supposed/ to have significant discretion.)
Eric, if you're not aware, you can almost certainly sue for expungment after some period, which will close the records of your arrest/charges/conviction to everyone except the court, and then you'd be able to travel to countries that you currently can't travel to because of your record, unless, I guess, they looked into your history manually with things other than background checks and found your video on the whole thing, but I seriously doubt a customs agent is going to do that.
Unbelievable.
Hopefully the judge will have some compassion and THROW IT THE F OUT!
Glad you’re doing well Dan.
Really enjoy your channel.
❤️🤘😎
Don't count on it ever. Take a very close look where the judge gets his money from. It's not a justice system. It's a racketeer system. You'll get screwed over every time. Your only real protection from this is to do everything you can to not end up in court.
32:21 it makes me feel like they'd rather me dead than camping slightly outside the bounds, with no malicious intent.. After such a potentially traumatic event happening the night before this seems soo ridiculous.. of all situations for this to happen this should not have been one.
My family and I have made it a point to try and see as many national parks as we can in our travels. I've had a dozen or so interactions with national rangers in multiple different parks. In almost every interaction, I have gotten the overwhelming impression that we are unwelcome guests in "there" park. I really, really feel like the NPS thinks of the parks as there own personal sanctuarys and if the could, they would lock the gates and keep us all out. Parks of a more historical nature do seem to be more civil to visitors.
The fact there are permits alone means they don’t want filming. Also there being permits to film on public property that is free and open to the public is legally and constitutionally suspect.
Dude, I’m really glad you are ok! I first heard the story on Eric’s channel and then Eric’s interview on Kyle Hates Hiking. This whole thing makes me so angry. Conflicting direction of where to move camp, dealing with a medical emergency, the snow, trauma, drama, fatigue both mentally and physically and emotionally…the judge and prosecutor should be ashamed of themselves. ASHAMED!! You guys are respectful stewards of Leave No Trace. So ridiculous, the charges. Idiots.
I mean... you really should be thanking them for all this hubabaloo. It provided you with some great content, a video title that gets more views without resorting to "too much" clickbait exaggeration... and hopefully the revenue from the video more than offsets the costs of the fines!
I would gladly contribute to a fund to provide legal counsel to enact expungement proceedings. The NPS should be called out for this outrage!
Wow, crazy experience, I'm sorry Etic had to go through that. It seems ridiculous that the park ranger, his supervisor, the federal prosecutor, or the judge didn't use some discretion by simply asking themselves, "What was the harm?"