Nice video, and I will 100% agree that seeing conditions matter most surely. On a great night and there have been only a few but I remember them. you can see things so clearly that while at the eyepiece all of a sudden it felt as if I was looking through a scope way much bigger than what I was using. One night while using a Celestron 8 inch SCT I looked at Mars, which I usually see that's its red with a few brown smudges and thought I could see a hint of the polar cap. Not to impressed but I saw it. Saw it through other scopes such as a 4inch APO and 11 inch SCT. But, Back to that one night with the 8inch SCT nearing the end of my observation of Mars the seeing cleared so good that I viewed Mars so well it was my best few minutes at the eyepiece ever. I saw the polar cap and markings and a hint of lines just like in a magazine photo. Seeing condition is #1 and I realized that while looking at a planet, if possible look at the target for as long as you can, or better yet every 5 or 10 minutes or so. Its possible that during one point of your observation time your scope will be looking through really great seeing, and there's a world of difference between good and great seeing.
Yeah I guess that's what I was trying to convey that the seeing has a lot more to do with what can be seen than aperture(or even optical quality) up to a certain degree.
The first C-14 I owned was by far the best planet-killer I’ve ever owned. I’ve owned all sorts of nice SCTs, Newts and refractors including an AP 152 I still own, but the views of Jupiter were incredible in that scope.i do have a currently in mounted 12.5 custom made Newt with a Zerodur mirror that had really nice views the short time I viewed through it before dismantling my observatory and moving.
Old celestrons, especially 11s and 14s were generally excellent. C14s being f11 also helped in that regard. Tom Johnson really knew what he was doing. Meade might let a cherry squeak by back then, but IMO didn't really start to crank out truly superb cats until the RC lawsuit era (now known as ACF), especially the pre Mexico transition ones. I was lucky enough to own an 8" pre lawsuit LX200R Ota that blew me away as well as a USA Grey tube C11 that was an excellent specimen. Had it all (pretty much everything and i had several expensive hobbies) taken away from me by storage dwelling meth rats who happened to be hanging out when I was dropping off some guitars and stuff (I mean when one of them asks if you have any, it kinda makes it obvious who you are dealing with and what they do for a living). Insurance found a loophole, didn't pay a dime
@@k.h.1587😢 welcome to the system! Wish you well reassembling your observation abilities and getting your interests going in a full happy mode.❤ My planet beasts so far is only my 6" f/10 Newt with clear sky and calm eye, and also on a test with my 700mm refractor after barn find repairs. (😒 No tracking! 😱😮😂) I am interested in upgrading planetary capabilities with the Celestron advanced vx 6in go-to refractor. It's on the cheaper side but she should be a solid girl on long drives over land. And eventually one day...something cool like an C11" Edge HD SC. Currently just using an old black Celestron 90mm Mak-Cass 1000mm focal length and my Nokia! X100, 48mp quad binning phone camera 🤳 with Carl Zeiss branded lens system and a very decent 'pro' mode. Turns darkness into day! I've actually captured Orion nebula pretty nicely for a phone! And was a single image! Recent comet ☄️ was nice in my phone pictures on the primo night,... there was a small cluster to the right of the coma and my phone shows the smudge grainy, surround stars and coma were good clear and ☄️ showed a very long tail and a little anti-tail too! I didn't even use the 90. It's my pocket astronomy kit. Just a stable phone with clean lens!!! The 90mm does real nice with the moon on this camera 🤳. Right now I'm bored and to get further interested, I need a tracking setup to continue to 'evaluate' the use of cellphone cameras and making the affordable entry astronomy capabilities known as I find things that work great. This hobby has many levels but even some interested people aren't aware the power of their phones 🤳 and the addition of a very small lens and tripod and the cool shots that can happen! 🌙✨🌃🌌🌠☄️ I'm currently super portable astronomy mode and living an off grid van lifestyle. Small tripod and good phone! 👍 A cheap but not junk, short scope setup, plus good solid eyepiece phone mount! 👍 I haven't missed my bigger scopes too much, but I need auto-guiding scope or the tracking clock drive and wedge combo. I want to do more photos for now with smaller cheaper stuff. I am interested in the Celestron Origin scope too but I only found out about the thing like yesterday. $3,999 a 6in fully enclosed automatic scope with camera and live AI photo processing/stacking and photo out to your choice of storage options but the app gives you a preview and store access. Anyway that thing is slick for a drop and walk solution to astronomy. You can go sit in the car and get your immediately ready astro photos dropped into your storage for upload!! It's not the best solution for deep astronomy but it's a cool accessible solution to reignite the fire of this hobby for some. I'm interested in the cheaper automatic astronomy scopes but I got all day!! ✌️❤️🔥❤🔭
I have had some planetary shoot outs between my 10 inch Dob and my 3" Lunt refractor. The Dob almost always wins, but the Lunt is pretty good and usually can go to max mag (ie bad conditions bother it less) and has great contrast.
I really enjoy all your videos! I’ve made some I was on the fence purchases til I watched some of your videos a few times just because of lack of astronomy funds thank you for taking the time to put in all your effort into making them! By the way great coffee mug😇👍
I live in the high desert and it's near 5,000 feet where I usually go to stargaze. Usually conditions are good for star gazing except Summer which is our rainy season, then it's hit or miss. My club has a 16" Mead LX200 in a roll-off observatory and it was the first time one cold dark night last December I saw the Andromeda Galaxy's spiral arms in real time. The operator put a huge Nagler type eyepiece in it that really was like looking out of a porthole. I think it was a 52mm or close, it was a 50 something eyepiece. Since hardly anyone showed up because of the cold and being near Christmas, we spent about 3 uninterrupted hours looking at different objects. Mars and Jupiter were close to opposition so we looked at them. Just the best viewing with that Meade I'd ever had. I seldom miss outreach night with the Meade. The Meade 16" was a gift to the club from University of New Mexico.
Probably a 56mm super plossl or 55mm televue plossl. Nothing like a nagler, but it is the maximum wide field capable in a 2" eyepiece, and would be very bright. A 31mm nagler would show almost the same field, in a much more immersing 82deg experience, but wouldn't be as bright. It is physically large enough to be confused for a nagler type, but it is just a really big plossl. At that focal length it is not possible to have a wider apparent field regardless of design. One of my old discontinued favorites was the celestron 50mm axiom, which was the max field at 56 degrees, which is noticeably wider apparently, but slightly higher power/dimmer than a 55-56. If you can come across the original Meade series 4000 56mm smoothie 5 element super plossl, that is another level of sharp high contrast pinpoint delight that some would prefer over the televue.
Many people miss this fact. Under ideal conditions the bigger size will possibly do better BUT as aperture increases it is more impacted by seeing, thermal currents, cooling time, etc. than a smaller aperture. I have 2 -11" SCTs and a 8" SCT with the HD optical correctors. I have a 6" Officina Stellare Super APO that is amazing. I also have a 80mm Officina Stellare refractor. That little 80mm NEVER fails to amaze me because it gives amazing images visually but especially photographically. As I move to the larger apertures they give great images but the times they give great images are less often than the progressively smaller sizes. I love all my scopes but if I were only getting one it would be the 8 Celestron HD because it gives fantastic images when equipped with Hyperstar or the matched focal reducer. It also has great optics for visual use. Finally a smaller refractor doesn't need collimation but a SCT is pretty easy to collimate and a smaller refractor or the 8" is a LOT easier and lighter to haul around than the 11" or large SCTs.
I would prefer a 12 inch SCT for the price, But I Love the contrast of a Refractor! 4 inch apo is the maxiumum i could afford! Excellent comparision! Clear Skies
4" Apo makes sense after that the prices become rather ludicrous, you could buy a decent telescope for just 10mm increments. Small fast refractor for large targets and a big reflector for small targets is a perfect combo.
@@koyaanisqatsi78 Agree, I love my 4" Genesis refractor which is over 20 years old now, although it does begin to 'dim out' when you push up the magnification up on planets on those good nights. That's when my 5" NP127 is another leap over the Genesis, on those exceptional are nights I can push it up to around 250x to 300x on the major planets, with Pentax XW eyepieces and Powermates. And both scopes have the versatility of incredible sweeping low power fields for M42 Orion, Eta Carina, Jewel Box in Crux etc. But as you say, the 5" is a lot more expensive than the 4" Genesis, plus considerably larger, plus is double the weight (~8kg versus ~4kg) just by adding that ONE extra inch of aperture !
@@127Foxtrot Oh yeah the old Genesis is great for low and mid field, and if it's well alligned you can go a bit higher as well but nothing crazy, and a 5" NP would be a dream but over here they're like 11k which is a bit much for 5".. but yeah an NP 4 or 5" and like a 10 to 20" inch dob depending on what you can manage and your local sky conditions seems like an ideal combo for visual guys.
Hi, thanks for the comparison. I own a 108mm Sharpstar with 600mm focal length and I think about an upgrade to the 140mm Sharpstar with 910mm focal length. Are thos 32mm plus in aperture a game changer?
I wondered whether one of the two scopes would pull ahead of the other as the exposure time increases. In any event, great 😊 video showing a comparison that most viewers could only dream 💭 about.
The 12" would definitely pick out more detail with more data, literally it has 2x the resolving power so that with lucky imaging in ideal seeing it's best shots will show more detail than the 178. I noted what looks like some CA on the 178 image he shared and to me the 12" image looks more contrast of darks and lights.
@@mycarolinaskies Makes sense, I was holding back out of politeness. Still, the higher contrast for a refractor and less turbulence could even the score somewhat. The new Stellarvue SVX180 should close the gap a little.
Hi, I'm a new subscriber. I was wondering, why isn't Jupiter obviously much larger when imaged with the 12" SCT compared to the 7" Refractor? They're the opposite way around to what I would expect? What have I missed? Ace video, really enjoyed this so I'll be a regular viewer from herein, thanks! Clear Skies from Wes, Liverpool, England.
Sir, with the greatest Respect to you and to your subscribers - I had an Astro Physics 7" Starfire refractor. I wish I had the words to describe its performance, but it was MARGINAL at best. An 8" SCT would outperform this 7" Starfire, on a night where 'reasonable' skies existed. I have a 4" Skywatcher Esprit refractor and it's a better performer than the 7" AP Starfire. Now, let me be absolutely clear: I am not a paid stooge (as this one clown is who reviews Skywatcher equipment - we all know who this joker is - anything from Skywatcher/Celestron is god-like equipment and when your a paid stooge, I get it and I'm sure that everyone out there gets it; I am not paid or anything from Skywatcher and I love Roland and Marjorie Christen (the owners of Astro Physics)), so what I am trying to say is that in my opinion, on a night with reasonable skies - my experience is that aperture is the key. This hype and 'crapola' about refractors outperforming anything which has double or triple the size of optics - is nonsense. Perhaps Roland rushed my 7" Starfire - I don't know, but an 8" anything (SCT/Newtonian) would outperform this 7" on any object. I guess it's up to the buyer: a long refractor LOOKS awesome, but in reality, an SCT/reflector would equal and or outperform this refractor. Hey, just my opinion, my experience.
Um, yeah I'm VERY surprised to hear that. The two(now 3 but the 3rd is untested by me yet) AP scopes that I have owned were absolutely exceptional 👏 😀 The wait line for them is so long they don't are new names... trust me, there is a reason for that. Lol
I believe the first diffraction ring of a 12” SCT is about the same size as the Airy Disc of a 7” APO, maybe even a bit smaller. If so, aside from brightness, the SCT might resolve better detail (aperture), but the APO should still offer better contrast (no CO). That leaves seeing - even a 7” scope isn’t going to be fully utilized on *many* nights, but that changes to *most* nights with a 12” SCT. Unless you live in in Florida or high up on a mountain. I have a C80f sitting on a C9.25. MOST of the time planetary views are better in the smaller scope. But on those rare nights when seeing is really good, I’ll usually be out until sunrise looking through the bigger scope. The C9.25 is supposed to have a first diffraction ring that is smaller than a 5” APO’s Airy Disc. Still, bigger diameter, more susceptible to seeing.
Hi Vlad, I'm trying to plan on buying a 6" APO refractow, whose OTA would be about 52" long. Because I will be using the scope for visual, obviously I will need it mopunted quite high off the ground. I have a CGXL mount which I am trying to look for a pier extension / mount extension for so that I increase the height between the mount and the tripod, and therefore increase the overall height of the mounted OTA which will of course enable me to have the eyepiece higher off the ground. I haven't had any luck at all in finding an extension. I see in your vidoe you have a large refractor mounted. I wanted to ask you about the pier tripod, mount, etc. Could you give me the details of what you were using there, please? Thanks.
The images are very similar to my 10" Dob with Baader zoom or stock Skywatcher 10mm with low cost barlow. So agree its more about the seeing conditions than the kit.
@@AVTAstro Hey thank you so much! Since I really like the solar system, I will go with the refractor because of quick cool down, no collimation issues and much lighter so easier to handle. You really helped me to make up my mind. 😊
@@AVTAstro Are the images you posted not representative of what you saw at the eyepiece? The ACF (In the picture) appears to show both more contrast and a little more detail.
I saw a spot like the one you photographed. I saw it last night around 8 to 10pm CST (9/10/2021). I thought it was the shadow of a moon but when I looked at Stellarium which always shows the moon shadows it did not show any. It confused me lol! Don't know if Stellarium is mistaken or if I saw the mother ship hanging around Jupiter!
It has nothing to do with the tak. In poor seeing, the smaller scope will always have an advantage in planetary detail. A lower end 5" apo doublet would have probably also beaten the 7 and 12 in those conditions. Only in excellent seeing conditions will you be able to compare kobe to wagyu (compare apos), or get the most out of a whkle standing rib roast (large aperture scopes)
First of all, I actually LOVE where I live. Secondly as I have said in previous videos I'm not some rich kid! Most of this astro gear was bought and sold used with negligible effect on my overall finances. Another thought that I'd like to post on the innerwebs is that even all your wildest astro dream gear likely do not add up to the price tag on a nice RV or boat. Should we assume that all the people that have a nice RV or boat should relocate to a private island as well since they are so rich???
Hi Vlad yes i agree with you. I did a similar video to a 5.1 triplet vs 10"SN. So iam glad you did something very similar. I too also have that 7"ED and a 12"sct LX90 but ti haven't yet compared both of them together. Chhers see you soon. Joe
@@AVTAstro i got it in the summer this year so maybe 7 months ago. For a 7" its not too heavy maybe 35 lbs. i dont have that cage rings that meade used to have on the 5, 6 & 7" scopes they were heavy. i just have regular rings & a 13" vixen bar on EQ6
Very cool, congrats on the scope! Mine is in very good shape for bing such a large instrument but did need quite some work too get the optics to stay in collimation and the baffles reattached. It is one scope thst I will probably never sell. The thing is just so cool to use(even though I rarely do honestly just because of the setup time).
Well as I said in the video it really depends on the seeing. It also depends on how good an SCT it is. The 12" ACF I have is the best of 6 that I have owned. And yes if the seeing is good it will easily outperform a 7" refractor.
Stupid atmospere , If we could all just get are scopes above the atmosphere . I'd like to see a comparison of all the usual scopes , but , in space ? How awesome would that be ? LOL! That might be the dumbest thing I've ever said , but , thoughts
Nice video, and I will 100% agree that seeing conditions matter most surely. On a great night and there have been only a few but I remember them. you can see things so clearly that while at the eyepiece all of a sudden it felt as if I was looking through a scope way much bigger than what I was using. One night while using a Celestron 8 inch SCT I looked at Mars, which I usually see that's its red with a few brown smudges and thought I could see a hint of the polar cap. Not to impressed but I saw it. Saw it through other scopes such as a 4inch APO and 11 inch SCT.
But, Back to that one night with the 8inch SCT nearing the end of my observation of Mars the seeing cleared so good that I viewed Mars so well it was my best few minutes at the eyepiece ever. I saw the polar cap and markings and a hint of lines just like in a magazine photo. Seeing condition is #1 and I realized that while looking at a planet, if possible look at the target for as long as you can, or better yet every 5 or 10 minutes or so. Its possible that during one point of your observation time your scope will be looking through really great seeing, and there's a world of difference between good and great seeing.
Yeah I guess that's what I was trying to convey that the seeing has a lot more to do with what can be seen than aperture(or even optical quality) up to a certain degree.
The first C-14 I owned was by far the best planet-killer I’ve ever owned. I’ve owned all sorts of nice SCTs, Newts and refractors including an AP 152 I still own, but the views of Jupiter were incredible in that scope.i do have a currently in mounted 12.5 custom made Newt with a Zerodur mirror that had really nice views the short time I viewed through it before dismantling my observatory and moving.
Very cool feedback👍 I do hope you get the Observatory back together and put it to good use!
Old celestrons, especially 11s and 14s were generally excellent. C14s being f11 also helped in that regard. Tom Johnson really knew what he was doing. Meade might let a cherry squeak by back then, but IMO didn't really start to crank out truly superb cats until the RC lawsuit era (now known as ACF), especially the pre Mexico transition ones.
I was lucky enough to own an 8" pre lawsuit LX200R Ota that blew me away as well as a USA Grey tube C11 that was an excellent specimen.
Had it all (pretty much everything and i had several expensive hobbies) taken away from me by storage dwelling meth rats who happened to be hanging out when I was dropping off some guitars and stuff (I mean when one of them asks if you have any, it kinda makes it obvious who you are dealing with and what they do for a living). Insurance found a loophole, didn't pay a dime
@@k.h.1587😢 welcome to the system!
Wish you well reassembling your observation abilities and getting your interests going in a full happy mode.❤
My planet beasts so far is only my 6" f/10 Newt with clear sky and calm eye, and also on a test with my 700mm refractor after barn find repairs.
(😒 No tracking! 😱😮😂)
I am interested in upgrading planetary capabilities with the Celestron advanced vx 6in go-to refractor.
It's on the cheaper side but she should be a solid girl on long drives over land.
And eventually one day...something cool like an C11" Edge HD SC.
Currently just using an old black Celestron 90mm Mak-Cass 1000mm focal length and my Nokia!
X100, 48mp quad binning phone camera 🤳 with Carl Zeiss branded lens system and a very decent 'pro' mode.
Turns darkness into day!
I've actually captured Orion nebula pretty nicely for a phone! And was a single image!
Recent comet ☄️ was nice in my phone pictures on the primo night,... there was a small cluster to the right of the coma and my phone shows the smudge grainy, surround stars and coma were good clear and ☄️ showed a very long tail and a little anti-tail too! I didn't even use the 90.
It's my pocket astronomy kit.
Just a stable phone with clean lens!!!
The 90mm does real nice with the moon on this camera 🤳.
Right now I'm bored and to get further interested, I need a tracking setup to continue to 'evaluate' the use of cellphone cameras and making the affordable entry astronomy capabilities known as I find things that work great.
This hobby has many levels but even some interested people aren't aware the power of their phones 🤳 and the addition of a very small lens and tripod and the cool shots that can happen! 🌙✨🌃🌌🌠☄️
I'm currently super portable astronomy mode and living an off grid van lifestyle.
Small tripod and good phone! 👍
A cheap but not junk, short scope setup, plus good solid eyepiece phone mount! 👍
I haven't missed my bigger scopes too much, but I need auto-guiding scope or the tracking clock drive and wedge combo.
I want to do more photos for now with smaller cheaper stuff.
I am interested in the Celestron Origin scope too but I only found out about the thing like yesterday.
$3,999 a 6in fully enclosed automatic scope with camera and live AI photo processing/stacking and photo out to your choice of storage options but the app gives you a preview and store access.
Anyway that thing is slick for a drop and walk solution to astronomy.
You can go sit in the car and get your immediately ready astro photos dropped into your storage for upload!!
It's not the best solution for deep astronomy but it's a cool accessible solution to reignite the fire of this hobby for some.
I'm interested in the cheaper automatic astronomy scopes but I got all day!!
✌️❤️🔥❤🔭
Like! Would be nice to also see achromats compared to other types of telescopes, since a lot of people use them (including me).
I have had some planetary shoot outs between my 10 inch Dob and my 3" Lunt refractor. The Dob almost always wins, but the Lunt is pretty good and usually can go to max mag (ie bad conditions bother it less) and has great contrast.
Sounds like a great combination!
I really enjoy all your videos! I’ve made some I was on the fence purchases til I watched some of your videos a few times just because of lack of astronomy funds thank you for taking the time to put in all your effort into making them! By the way great coffee mug😇👍
Glad you found my content helpful! Always good to hear that it's helping folks in the hobby as that the reason I make it👍
I live in the high desert and it's near 5,000 feet where I usually go to stargaze. Usually conditions are good for star gazing except Summer which is our rainy season, then it's hit or miss.
My club has a 16" Mead LX200 in a roll-off observatory and it was the first time one cold dark night last December I saw the Andromeda Galaxy's spiral arms in real time. The operator put a huge Nagler type eyepiece in it that really was like looking out of a porthole. I think it was a 52mm or close, it was a 50 something eyepiece. Since hardly anyone showed up because of the cold and being near Christmas, we spent about 3 uninterrupted hours looking at different objects. Mars and Jupiter were close to opposition so we looked at them. Just the best viewing with that Meade I'd ever had. I seldom miss outreach night with the Meade.
The Meade 16" was a gift to the club from University of New Mexico.
Yup, the 16" is certainly and Observatory class instrument
Probably a 56mm super plossl or 55mm televue plossl. Nothing like a nagler, but it is the maximum wide field capable in a 2" eyepiece, and would be very bright. A 31mm nagler would show almost the same field, in a much more immersing 82deg experience, but wouldn't be as bright.
It is physically large enough to be confused for a nagler type, but it is just a really big plossl. At that focal length it is not possible to have a wider apparent field regardless of design.
One of my old discontinued favorites was the celestron 50mm axiom, which was the max field at 56 degrees, which is noticeably wider apparently, but slightly higher power/dimmer than a 55-56.
If you can come across the original Meade series 4000 56mm smoothie 5 element super plossl, that is another level of sharp high contrast pinpoint delight that some would prefer over the televue.
Like the coffee mug! 👍
Thanks!
On good seeing the 12" will do far better, but the trouble is the bigger the aperture the better conditions need to be
Very true!
Many people miss this fact. Under ideal conditions the bigger size will possibly do better BUT as aperture increases it is more impacted by seeing, thermal currents, cooling time, etc. than a smaller aperture. I have 2 -11" SCTs and a 8" SCT with the HD optical correctors. I have a 6" Officina Stellare Super APO that is amazing. I also have a 80mm Officina Stellare refractor. That little 80mm NEVER fails to amaze me because it gives amazing images visually but especially photographically. As I move to the larger apertures they give great images but the times they give great images are less often than the progressively smaller sizes.
I love all my scopes but if I were only getting one it would be the 8 Celestron HD because it gives fantastic images when equipped with Hyperstar or the matched focal reducer. It also has great optics for visual use. Finally a smaller refractor doesn't need collimation but a SCT is pretty easy to collimate and a smaller refractor or the 8" is a LOT easier and lighter to haul around than the 11" or large SCTs.
I would prefer a 12 inch SCT for the price, But I Love the contrast of a Refractor! 4 inch apo is the maxiumum i could afford! Excellent comparision! Clear Skies
Thanks!
4" Apo makes sense after that the prices become rather ludicrous, you could buy a decent telescope for just 10mm increments. Small fast refractor for large targets and a big reflector for small targets is a perfect combo.
Piggy-back a lightweight ED doublet 4 inch refractor on the back of a large SCT. It’s the best of both worlds!
@@koyaanisqatsi78 Agree, I love my 4" Genesis refractor which is over 20 years old now, although it does begin to 'dim out' when you push up the magnification up on planets on those good nights. That's when my 5" NP127 is another leap over the Genesis, on those exceptional are nights I can push it up to around 250x to 300x on the major planets, with Pentax XW eyepieces and Powermates. And both scopes have the versatility of incredible sweeping low power fields for M42 Orion, Eta Carina, Jewel Box in Crux etc. But as you say, the 5" is a lot more expensive than the 4" Genesis, plus considerably larger, plus is double the weight (~8kg versus ~4kg) just by adding that ONE extra inch of aperture !
@@127Foxtrot Oh yeah the old Genesis is great for low and mid field, and if it's well alligned you can go a bit higher as well but nothing crazy, and a 5" NP would be a dream but over here they're like 11k which is a bit much for 5".. but yeah an NP 4 or 5" and like a 10 to 20" inch dob depending on what you can manage and your local sky conditions seems like an ideal combo for visual guys.
Like! The barlow not matter how good it is also slightly decreased the image quality.
That is true. 👍
Hi, thanks for the comparison. I own a 108mm Sharpstar with 600mm focal length and I think about an upgrade to the 140mm Sharpstar with 910mm focal length. Are thos 32mm plus in aperture a game changer?
It's a significant upgrade in the refractor world! Is it going to totally knock your socks off on any objects? Probably not.
I wondered whether one of the two scopes would pull ahead of the other as the exposure time increases. In any event, great 😊 video showing a comparison that most viewers could only dream 💭 about.
The 12" would definitely pick out more detail with more data, literally it has 2x the resolving power so that with lucky imaging in ideal seeing it's best shots will show more detail than the 178. I noted what looks like some CA on the 178 image he shared and to me the 12" image looks more contrast of darks and lights.
@@mycarolinaskies Makes sense, I was holding back out of politeness. Still, the higher contrast for a refractor and less turbulence could even the score somewhat. The new Stellarvue SVX180 should close the gap a little.
Hi, I'm a new subscriber. I was wondering, why isn't Jupiter obviously much larger when imaged with the 12" SCT compared to the 7" Refractor? They're the opposite way around to what I would expect? What have I missed?
Ace video, really enjoyed this so I'll be a regular viewer from herein, thanks!
Clear Skies from Wes, Liverpool, England.
Thanks for subscribing!!! The image scale was larger with the refractor as I used a Barlow with it to double the focal length.
@@AVTAstro Oohh ok sorry I should have worked that out for myself! Thanks!
Sir, with the greatest Respect to you and to your subscribers - I had an Astro Physics 7" Starfire refractor. I wish I had the words to describe its performance, but it was MARGINAL at best. An 8" SCT would outperform this 7" Starfire, on a night where 'reasonable' skies existed. I have a 4" Skywatcher Esprit refractor and it's a better performer than the 7" AP Starfire. Now, let me be absolutely clear: I am not a paid stooge (as this one clown is who reviews Skywatcher equipment - we all know who this joker is - anything from Skywatcher/Celestron is god-like equipment and when your a paid stooge, I get it and I'm sure that everyone out there gets it; I am not paid or anything from Skywatcher and I love Roland and Marjorie Christen (the owners of Astro Physics)), so what I am trying to say is that in my opinion, on a night with reasonable skies - my experience is that aperture is the key. This hype and 'crapola' about refractors outperforming anything which has double or triple the size of optics - is nonsense. Perhaps Roland rushed my 7" Starfire - I don't know, but an 8" anything (SCT/Newtonian) would outperform this 7" on any object. I guess it's up to the buyer: a long refractor LOOKS awesome, but in reality, an SCT/reflector would equal and or outperform this refractor. Hey, just my opinion, my experience.
Um, yeah I'm VERY surprised to hear that. The two(now 3 but the 3rd is untested by me yet) AP scopes that I have owned were absolutely exceptional 👏 😀 The wait line for them is so long they don't are new names... trust me, there is a reason for that. Lol
I believe the first diffraction ring of a 12” SCT is about the same size as the Airy Disc of a 7” APO, maybe even a bit smaller. If so, aside from brightness, the SCT might resolve better detail (aperture), but the APO should still offer better contrast (no CO). That leaves seeing - even a 7” scope isn’t going to be fully utilized on *many* nights, but that changes to *most* nights with a 12” SCT. Unless you live in in Florida or high up on a mountain.
I have a C80f sitting on a C9.25. MOST of the time planetary views are better in the smaller scope. But on those rare nights when seeing is really good, I’ll usually be out until sunrise looking through the bigger scope. The C9.25 is supposed to have a first diffraction ring that is smaller than a 5” APO’s Airy Disc. Still, bigger diameter, more susceptible to seeing.
Thanks for the input! Good info.
Apo 6" or Celestron C11 for planet seeing?hard to decide😧
If you live in an area of good seeing and manage to get a good sample of a c11 it will be easily better on the planets.
@@AVTAstro thank you
Hi Vlad, I'm trying to plan on buying a 6" APO refractow, whose OTA would be about 52" long. Because I will be using the scope for visual, obviously I will need it mopunted quite high off the ground. I have a CGXL mount which I am trying to look for a pier extension / mount extension for so that I increase the height between the mount and the tripod, and therefore increase the overall height of the mounted OTA which will of course enable me to have the eyepiece higher off the ground. I haven't had any luck at all in finding an extension.
I see in your vidoe you have a large refractor mounted. I wanted to ask you about the pier tripod, mount, etc. Could you give me the details of what you were using there, please? Thanks.
The mount that I use is the Losmandy g11 with a 12" extension that they make. Sorry not too familiar with what's available for the Celestron mounts.
@@AVTAstro Hey there, that's very helpful, thanks, I appreciate you getting back to me. Clear skies! :)
great video, i love my 8” nexstar.. your setup is a dream setup, one day maybe i’ll talk myself into a refractor..
Thanks👍
The images are very similar to my 10" Dob with Baader zoom or stock Skywatcher 10mm with low cost barlow. So agree its more about the seeing conditions than the kit.
Glad your experience is similar!
Excellent review! However, if you had a choice between a 5“ Stellarvue 127d and a Meade 10“ SCT, what would you recommend for best views?
For deep sky the 10". For the planets probably the refractor under my seeing conditions.
@@AVTAstro Hey thank you so much! Since I really like the solar system, I will go with the refractor because of quick cool down, no collimation issues and much lighter so easier to handle. You really helped me to make up my mind. 😊
@@elray4932You are mad. My 10" newt destroys my 125 apo.
9:50 I have to disagree, the 12" ACF has way more contrast and less CA 🤷♂
BTW, do you know of autostakkert and deconvolution?
And I assume you have directly side-by-side compared a 7" APO and 12" SCT?
@@AVTAstro Are the images you posted not representative of what you saw at the eyepiece? The ACF (In the picture) appears to show both more contrast and a little more detail.
I saw a spot like the one you photographed. I saw it last night around 8 to 10pm CST (9/10/2021). I thought it was the shadow of a moon but when I looked at Stellarium which always shows the moon shadows it did not show any. It confused me lol! Don't know if Stellarium is mistaken or if I saw the mother ship hanging around Jupiter!
Lol, cool story👍 A lot of times when I'm not sure about moons/shadows I check skysafari
@@AVTAstro I assume Sky Safari is not free?
Which one would you recommend? 6AR or Pro?
How does that g11 handle that 178?
Holds it perfectly fine for visual use. I have even used it in pretty strong winds.
nice video. I could never afford at 7" apo.
Never say never! Lol. The Meade 178ed is the poor man's 7" APO. They are less them $5k so I'm sure you can afford one👍
Beautiful video !
Thanks👍
It has nothing to do with the tak. In poor seeing, the smaller scope will always have an advantage in planetary detail. A lower end 5" apo doublet would have probably also beaten the 7 and 12 in those conditions.
Only in excellent seeing conditions will you be able to compare kobe to wagyu (compare apos), or get the most out of a whkle standing rib roast (large aperture scopes)
I don't get it: if 'AVT-Astro' can finance all these scopes and mounts why can't he finance a relocation to Arizona, or Australia, even?
First of all, I actually LOVE where I live. Secondly as I have said in previous videos I'm not some rich kid! Most of this astro gear was bought and sold used with negligible effect on my overall finances. Another thought that I'd like to post on the innerwebs is that even all your wildest astro dream gear likely do not add up to the price tag on a nice RV or boat. Should we assume that all the people that have a nice RV or boat should relocate to a private island as well since they are so rich???
@@AVTAstro Excuse me, then. But would you share what sort of publicly available astro gear you consider to be certainly out of your pockets reach?
Should be interesting... 0:23 😊.....
LZOS 178 is very expensive 😧
Way above my pay grade...
Svbony will probably come out with one for $3699. (Just kidding)
This is the worst time of year for planetary observing due to the ecliptic passing very low in the sky.
Yup, it's been the worst for planters for a while since they have been so low in the sky. Not for the lucky guys/gals down south tho👍
Hi Vlad yes i agree with you. I did a similar video to a 5.1 triplet vs 10"SN. So iam glad you did something very similar. I too also have that 7"ED and a 12"sct LX90 but ti haven't yet compared both of them together. Chhers see you soon. Joe
Wow Joe, you have a 178ED??? Hiw long have you had yours? The scope is pretty rare!
@@AVTAstro i got it in the summer this year so maybe 7 months ago. For a 7" its not too heavy maybe 35 lbs. i dont have that cage rings that meade used to have on the 5, 6 & 7" scopes they were heavy. i just have regular rings & a 13" vixen bar on EQ6
Very cool, congrats on the scope! Mine is in very good shape for bing such a large instrument but did need quite some work too get the optics to stay in collimation and the baffles reattached. It is one scope thst I will probably never sell. The thing is just so cool to use(even though I rarely do honestly just because of the setup time).
Heres the trick..EVERY MIRROR is APO..EVERY mirror has perfect color correction.
Very true. 👍
I'm Antonio from Italy, my opinion : win the rifractor 7" APO in all . Fantastic challenge.
Thanks for the feedback!
@@AVTAstro But who win between this two telescopes ???
Well as I said in the video it really depends on the seeing. It also depends on how good an SCT it is. The 12" ACF I have is the best of 6 that I have owned. And yes if the seeing is good it will easily outperform a 7" refractor.
@@AVTAstro Thanks for the answer, i understand the message.
Even a 8 inch APO Refractor doesnt beat a Celestron C14.
Depends on how good the c14 is...
Stupid atmospere , If we could all just get are scopes above the atmosphere . I'd like to see a comparison of all the usual scopes , but , in space ? How awesome would that be ? LOL! That might be the dumbest thing I've ever said , but , thoughts
Sign me up!