Why is this a hot topic? When did self preservation become a touchy subject. The Bear doesn’t feel sorry for us when it attacks us. Neither should we feel sorry for defending our life by any means necessary.
I'm trying but the words come way faster than I can't type. So people mistake or misconstrued what you are saying. So most of these comments, no matter the topic are keyboard fighting 101. Apparently
I've always carried a firearm loaded with Underwood Xtreme Penetrator rounds when I'm in the backcountry. After watching this video I realized that I need to balance that solution out with a can of bear spray. Having options is always better. Great video, gentlemen!
I would agree normally but in this situation you need to have a protocol in place for which one will be your go to in the heat of the moment. Otherwise you risk being indecisive in that moment and getting neither of them out in time.
@@watchinggearreviews True, but the protocol is easy: Spray First. It is the statistically superior bear defense. If you run out of spray (and you will so damned fast you won't believe it) then you have a firearm with which to fight for your life if you must.
Agree with having both, not because of the statistics, but because they serve different purposes. Being accosted by a slowly encroaching overly curious bear is not a situation i'd feel like i would want to discharge a firearm but would spray. I think the spray numbers have to be slightly overinflated because there are more "successful" encounters that are not true bear attacks
I have to comment on this one. I was working as a fishery biologist outside of Meeteetse, Wyoming with an outfitter that had his dog off leash in a wilderness area. When we crested a hill we saw a female black bear that was protecting its dead cub on the trail and everyone on horses took off. As luck would have it, I was on foot and left behind. The dog however, continued to harass the mother bear and when the bear charged, the dog took off leaving me with an angry mother bear to deal with. I had my bear spray out of the holster and the safety clip was off as well (this is a good argument for practicing and making this a muscle memory occurrence, because I don't even remember doing these things). She bluff charged me then stood up on her back legs and started clacking her jaws. She bluffed two more times and then walked away. She was never close enough to shoot the spray effectively, but it felt like she was on top of me. I love dogs and I cannot stress enough that they need to be on leash in bear country! Thank you for such and important video for us hikers!
Having a unleashed dog in bear country can work in two ways. Either the dog chases a bear out of your path and prevents a confrontation or a dog riles up a bear that wouldn't of engaged you and then you have to put the bear down . I never leash up my dog in bear country because my house is in bear country . However I make noise as I walk and try not to let my dog go more than 30 yards ahead of me on hikes .
Papa, i doubt the dog killed the cub. More likely scenario was the bear was a male & he killed it & was about to or eating the cub when the dog showed up. Since female bears rarely bluff & you were bluffed TWICE I doubt it was the mother. Male bears kill female bears protecting their cubs all the time. Kill/ eat the cubs too. Real shame you didnt have the time/ resources to investigate the entire scene. 25 years w the AK F&G dept & ALL bears are cannibals & even a sow will eat her own dead cubs. Sometimes they kill their own wounded or weakest & eat them too. If i were you id sue that outfitter for criminal negligence & make sure he at least lost his license. Theres NO excuse for abandoning a man on foot like that. Especially an UNarmed one. On the backside of that coin, YOU should have been armed as well. Bears are always armed, people in bear country should be too.
As someone who always carries both bear spray and a sidearm whenever I go into the wilderness I can say this was an excellent conversation that should get people to evaluate their preparedness and their limitations. I appreciate the honesty and lack of any agenda besides providing unbiased information.
This is a GREAT video on the subject of bears, guns and spray! I carry a side arm in the bush AND I carry spray! I have used my spray on dogs in the past…never had to use spray on a wild animal. Been over 20 years of experience. Always good to practice at home! Again, thank you both for this video!
The closest to using my bear spray has been on a ram and a moose. I have encountered many bears black and grizzly and it is mostly about knowing how to act. Bear spray /firearm are always a last resort.
I've hunted large game my whole life including being on bear hunts for brown and black bears. I've watched bears charge after 2 or more well placed shots from large caliber rifles. Bears are extremely fast and close the gap in a blink of an eye. Neither is a guarantee especially if the bear is determined.
@@nightowl7261 who is everyone? I just wonder about all these stories of immortal bears and how it's possible. Did Bear scul is bulletproof or people just aim in the body. Bear is so big and strong I can believe shooting entire gun magazine won't stop him.
@@pio7763 Skull is thick and naturally sloped. Body is huge with lots of muscle and heavy bones. The bear won't bear immediately even if you hit the heart or brain, both of which are very tough targets. Early pioneers didn't believe a grizzly would be so tough either when facing a musket or Kentucky rifle instead of an arrow, but they quickly learnt that even a massive musket ball usually wouldn't bring one down.
@@pio7763 I've seen guys need 10-15 shots from a large caliber rifle to kill a grizzly. You think you can aim at a 600lb animal coming at you at 35 mph and and pull off head shots while you are crapping your pants?
Sold a car to an Alaskan wildlife photographer who had been attacked by 4 Grizzley bears over the course of his career. He said the first attack was in the 80's, so of course he had a 45, unloaded it into the bear (one hit the skull, but didn't penetrate it, 6 hit the body, one missed), and it took over 5 minutes of intense mauling before the bear's jaw opened. After a year in the hospital he ended up being attacked again, this time with a some hot .44 Magnum, and waited until the bear was actually on him so that he could unload all 8 rounds into it's head. Even then, brain gone, the bear's jaw didn't unlatch from his neck/shoulder for minutes, and he still needed major surgery, had a broken neck, and almost bled out. The third time out he had an AR-10 (308) loaded with hot hunting rounds, it was probably 15 years later so the ammo was much better, and this time he was able to get away without too much damage, even though it took 30 rounds during the bear charge to do it. The 4th time he had the rifle, but was attacked in his tent, used bear spray that he had ready to go for just that scenario, and he walked away completely unscathed - his conclusion - carry a rifle with plenty of proper ammo, and double up on the bear spray if you're gonna be around 1000lb Grizzley bears. HOWEVER, he has photographed thousands of Black bears, and cited a study done by some wildlife preserve or something that compared about 100 provoked black bear attacks, and simply loudly yelling while making yourself appear huge (arms in the air, jumping), worked exactly as well as throwing rocks, and using normal pepper gel to the face (not bear spray). I later googled the study and found it to exist and back that up, although it's been over 10 years since then, so who knows what other research has been done. His summary on black bears was that you don't need a gun at all, so leave them alone and buy some pepper gel if you're worried - they're cute and likely don't need to be shot in any normal circumstance. He also mentioned that something called dog spray is a slightly larger and further projecting option if you're looking for a still lightweight alternative to bear spray (which is overkill for a black bear), but still very effective. Figured I'd add this in just in case someone was interested! Be safe out there! I personally just carry a tiny Saber Red pepper gel when camping anywhere that doesn't have Grizzlies, and maybe a small firearm (CCW) if I'm going to be near any sketchy towns or areas with lots of drug issues.
The first case was odd, how a bear with a bullet in his brain can still attack. Every mammal brain is similar, shot in the head is usually instant kill. The second case was also strange. Bear was holding his neck while he was shooting 8 times into his head? Maybe this photographer didn't aim very well, it's possible in such an extremely stressful situation.
@@pio7763Agreed, it does sound strange! I know those skulls are thick and hard, just not sure how hard. The missed shots are definitely very likely. Also who knows how exaggerated the stories have become over the years haha. I know if they didn't hit any brain, the bears' hearts only beat a few times a minute, so the hypovolemic shock a human would experience would take quite a bit longer, and if they did hit the head, maybe the bear's reflexes kept it biting down for a while after it died? Who knows, but definitely interesting stories at the very least!
What's this photographers name? Not saying this story's untrue but 30 rounds of 308 or the brain shot to bits by a 44 but still biting? Does sound a bit unbelievable. Surely this is someone who'd have some articles on them after experiencing 4 bear attacks, especially being a career photographer
Both! I’m ex-military and firmly believe in peace through deterrence (Bear spray) and when that fails bring overwhelming fire superiority (gun) to bare (pun intended). Seriously though, great video for those who haven’t considered their defense on the trail. For those who lack firearm’s training, please don’t carry around a gun. An attack without warning isn’t when one finds out their defensive plan is more a sense of hope rather than a plan. If carrying a gun, please practice. It’s darn near impossible to hit what you want to hit under stress, when the target is moving and without practice. Also consider the consequences of missing the bear in a group. FULL DISCLAIMER: I’ve only had one Bear encounter within 50 feet and it was resolved without spray or bullets.
I carry pepper spray and a firearm in town for self defense. These are both tools for different applications. The same goes for out in the back country: two tools with a different applications, different training and mindset considerations.
I have both. I carry a gun mostly for two-legged predators. A raging black bear or cougar is unlikely, but I feel better with protection. Shooting a grizzly with a handgun, even a rifle at close range is a dumb idea.
Why not air horn? Rei sells mini version of marine horns. Those super loud and will scare crap out of anything. Also marine handheld flare likely to be extremely effective for close encounters
@@user70331 a flare would be a horrible idea and probably illegal in California. We can only use butane stoves in the back country. An air horn is not a bad idea, as Bear spray is illegal in Sequoia NP. I go to remote places and often alone. I've had strange encounters with people more than anything. PC 12027 allows for concealed carry with a fishing license in the CA wilderness. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
@@user70331 read the instructions on those "bear horns"... They want you to sound them every 30minutes so scare them away. That is not my ideal backcountry experience. That said I do own one and would likely be great for an encounter with a black bear or mountain lion... It's typically not best to scare a grizzly when you are face to face with it.
@@user70331this kind of response tells me that *you* are uncomfortable with firearms and thus are uncomfortable with anyone else carrying one no matter their comfort level with firearms.
If you are a master, tourney winner shot, then still you might not be ready at a situation you never encountered before. So spray is the way, the cloud is going to hit its target way more likely.
I think it depends on the person but if you want to use spray i highly suggest going out on a light wind day with a can of spray and see how well it actually functions (obviously do this in a secluded area). Ditto for someone who carries a gun use it and use it regularly or it can be more harm then good.
I live in the mountains of vermont. We have lots of black bears. I hike and camp deep in the backcountry very often! From my experience they tend to stay away from us. I have firearms experience and do carry almost daily. Me personally when im out hiking, camping or fishing i carry a .357 and bear spray! I do not want to shoot a bear. But i will protect my dog and myself! My dog is very good and is very alert! More than once shes froze and turned around! I trust her nose and instincts! All this said, 100’s of miles hiked and dozens of camping trips and not once have i had a bear encounter. I have had however had bears in my backyard! More than once! I often see them back by the river which is a few hundred yards away. Simply do what you feel comfortable with. But! Get the proper training! And be proficient!
Adventuresw Piper. Black bears are natural maneaters. Its their size that determines their ferocity. Once theyre as tall as you standing your on the menu if theyre hungry enough.
I have always packed a gun living in Idaho where we have black bears and grizzlies. I have never had a problem with bears being aggressive even though I’ve met them on the trail. It seems like the mountain goats are more of a problem around camp. Don’t pee around your tent because the goats are after the salt and will knock your tent over.
Great interview. I like this format of interviewing knowledgeable guest speakers that relate to the outdoors. Id love to see you do one on outdoor etiquette and LNT. I came across a campsite recently where a number of LNT was clearly not followed.
I've had 5 bear encounters in my life time. all 5 times a firearm was present (mine or a person with me). of these 5 encounters never a shot fired and no one was ever attacked. 2 of the encounters had the bear within 4 feet before it turned away. of those 5 encounters bear spray was never present. i will add that during 3 of these encounters a firearm was drawn on the bear (2 times from a holster and once was a rifle). cost of practicing with a firearm dry fire is free, .20 to 50 cents a round for live fire. . aim small miss small.
@@Kypreparedness lol! It was never on purpose. When they stand up and start walking towards you, you don't have a lot of options. The first time there was a cliff behind us we had no choice but to stand our ground. The second time was a cub that ran into our camp and almost bumped into me. As soon as he saw us he turned and ran we never saw mom but we heard her breathing.
US Forest Service says that if you're hiking in bear country you should wear bells on your pack and carry pepper spray. If you see bear squat on the trail and not sure if it was from a black bear or grizzly here's how to tell the difference. Black bear squat will be smaller and contain berries, grizzly squat will be much larger, contain bells and smell like pepper spray
You need both. Living in Areas with animals like this my whole entire life, hunted in Montana lived in North Idaho and Northern Washington, up by Canadian line in the rockies, my whole life, with cougars, grizzly, and black bears you 100% need both. Not only for the preservation of your own life, but for the Wildlife as well. Every situation is different, therefore you need different tools for those situations. You (should always have a gun) absolutely, but there's many situations you don't need to use it, you can use your spray instead saveing both you and the animal, if it's windy out don't pull the spray I mean come on. With that said, if enough too curious of Bears gets sprayed by people, they will learn to stay away from them from fear. If you only have a split second to react then pull your gun, if you have a moment to deploy some spray to deter the animal to go away, then do it, it's not that complicated. You will be able to tell in the moment what you should deploy, if it happens to be your gun then so be it.
I just finished watching this video. We found you because my wife and I are, for the first time, exploring backpacking. We're in our mid 50's so a little late, but I digress. I wanted to thank you for this video. It was 100% on point. I have 30 years of law enforcement firearms training, and I am also a firearms instructor for concealed carry in my state. I'm a huge 2nd amendment guy, but I, too, am a huge proponent of accepting the responsibilities that go hand in hand with firearm ownership and I was so glad to see that was one of the core discussions. I know this was focused on the bear threat, but I'd like to add that, though very small, there is a human threat out there as well, and I will always carry a firearm when I'm out in "the back country" for that reason. I fear the bad intentions of humans much more than I fear a bear attack, though I'd prefer to avoid both. Again, thank you for this very frank discussion. I think many people need to hear it whether they want to or not!
How many people practice shooting at an 800 lb ball of fur and teeth charging them at 30 mph? I’m a gun owner and practice regularly. Gun for two legged predators bear spray for the four legged.
How often do you practice shooting at a 2 legged predator attacking you. By your standards it would be dumb to own a gun because you don't practice against humans. Or saying its pointless because if 5 people break in to your home with guns you'll have a hard time defending against that.. at least you can try is the point. in polar bear territory they don't carry bear spray because once a bear decides to attack and eat you its going to.
@randomletter-5i4 my point is when the bear wants to eat you they give you a gun not a can of spray. But i guess if your spray doesnt freeze it better than nothing
A friend of mine who had been backpacking for over 50 years never went into the backcountry without a firearm and he would say “it’s not the four footed creatures I’m wary of; it’s the two footed ones.” He carried bear spray for the four footed ones. 😂
only once have i ever had to worry about two footed ones. glad there was a firearm present because they had one two. thank God they were not willing to go down that road.
I have asthma and although it’s controlled with meds, I wouldn’t ever want to risk exposing myself to mace. I’m less worried about four legged animals, I’m worried about the bipeds. Plus, bear spray won’t go through a car window or car door, but a pew-pew will; I car camp a lot and even though I lock my doors at night, I’m prepared for an attempted break-in while I sleep in my car.
Great video. I like respectful conversations like this. I am more towards carrying a gun, but your guest does make some valid points. I live on Vancouver Island, and we only have black bears. I found by making some noise is all you need to do. I think it's up to the individual to decide. You just better know how to use it, gun or spray.
This is very interesting informative, discussion. What is funny, in a sad way, is the number of people who think they know what they would/could do in a high stress, life or death situation, where the decision making time is a split second. There is a reason the military trains incessantly, so that in a high stress situation soldiers instinctively rely on their training. The vast majority of gun owners do not have access to that training
I usually carry both. But when you are in a bear situation, it’s hard to think and a stick might be the weapon of choice. Bear situations can happen fast and having multiple choices is always the best choice.
There are times that bear spray is not very effective. Bear sprays are considered a pesticide by the U.S. government and must be registered with the EPA. In doing so, the government requires that bear spray can contain no more than 1 - 2% O.C. ( oleoresin capsicum) which is a natural oil found in plants, including cayenne peppers and chillies, the ingredient that causes the burning sensation. In comparison, pepper spray that might be used on 2-legged animals, can contain as much as 23% (or more) O.C. A much stronger deterrent. Next time you have a can of bear spray check the label. You will see no more than 2% O.C. and sometimes as little as 1% O.C. It is relatively weak compared to pepper spray. Pepper spray typically only sprays a short distance, usually 6-12 feet. Some go a little more, some a little less. Whereas bear spray typically sprays 25-30 feet and usually in a large fog. So, pepper spray's range is too short for bear. IMO. A brown bear can travel 12 feet in less than a second running at full charge. Besides being relatively weak another problem with bear spray (as mentioned in video) is when it's windy, and especially if the wind is blowing directly at or even in the direction of the person using the bear spray. If the wind blows the spray at you it can end up burning the eyes and throat of the person trying to defend against the bear, which may temporarily disable the person. That could make it very hard to open your eyes to see the bear and also to breathe. Not a very good thing to have happen if a dangerous bear is coming at you. Bear spray is under pressure and can sometimes not work well at elevations over 7000 feet. Bear spray does seem to work against bears that are just curious or maybe only giving a false charge. Bear spray does not work as well against a bear that is guarding a kill, especially if you unknowingly get between the bear and it's food source, or if a mother bear feels that you're a threat to her cubs, even if you're not close to the cubs, or if you accidentally happen to surprise a bear. Especially if it's sleeping. I know there are a lot of people that for whatever reason are not comfortable with firearms or maybe don't feel very proficient with one. If that's you and there's no way you see yourself carrying a firearm then absolutely carry bear spray. It won't always work in every situation, but it is better than not having anything. I have friends in Alaska. They don't bother with bear spray, saying they don't trust it. They prefer to carry a rifle, shotgun with slugs, or a large caliber handgun with heavy, hard-cast bullets. A good option in bear country would be to carry both a firearm and bear spray. Make sure you make noise when you hike, most bears will turn and leave when they hear people. Oh, and don't hike alone.
I have lived in Montana my entire life. I hunt, fish, camp, hike, backback... I carry both. You definitely should if you safely can in my opinion. If a firearm is out of the question for one reason or another. I have seen people with a small Air Horn and Bear spray. Not a bad idea in high bear areas I dont think. Always wear your seatbelt!
Great video - I have carried both a 10mm with Underwood penetrators, and spray for years. Every situation requires thought about which is appropriate. Strong wind in your face, spray is far more limited. In your tent at night, spray is likely worthless, but in most other situations I'd go to the spray first. Practice extensively with both, and you better have thought about varying situations beforehand. A charging bear presents a poor time for flip flopping between options.
I'm Canadian and a backpacker, and I've only ever backpacked in black bear country. I've never encountered a bear that I've seen. I travel solo in the backcountry. I'm obsessive about not having food or anything scented stuff in camp unless I'm actively cooking or eating it. Otherwise it's up in a tree half km downwind of camp. Since I'm Canadian and could be considered a city girl, a gun as a bear deterrent has never and would never cross my mind. I am considering bear spray though and so far this video is encouraging me to pick some up for my next trip. Maybe I'm a little bit hippy or whatever, but something seems wrong to me about killing / shooting a bear while I'm encroaching their territory purely for recreation, so I wouldn't judge someone who has little choice in sharing their territory with bears. @Danbecker, I love your channel!
I'm an Australian who has seen a lot bears in Canada when I rode a motor cycle across the country. They are there and run with the encounters I had or ignored me. I know this may be different for others.
Most individuals underestimate the Grizzly's ability to close distance in a hurry. I've seen people here in Banff National Park get out of the car, walk 100 ft to the train tracks looking for The Boss/Split Lip. Both of which could be hiding in the forest 20 ft away from the tracks. Good luck making it back to the car if they decide to make you a meal.
Thanks! Mister Becker, I'm A guy that was raised In the city and I would like to start going outdoors and bring my son with me. He is now one years old. And I'm 53 and I'm a little scared. And I would like to go alone as well and enjoy the woods.I have such a deep love for Camping? But looking at your videos you've made all the difference thank you
Sweet set up! I’ve been looking at that same chest holster for awhile. Right now I have a holster I put molle clips on and attached it to my Eberlestock bino harness
Look, I carry a gun over pepper spray for one simple reason: I'm severely asthmatic. Pepper spray is far more likely to screw me over than the bear. I practice, I carry a 45 long colt revolver with extreme penetrator underwood ammunition, and I stay alert in the woods. Thats my two cents, not saying its great for everyone just that pepper spray is not the answer for me.
This was an amazing video! Of all the things that struck me the most was your conversation around dogs on the trail. 100% leash at all times on the trail.
Fantastic conversation, best episode yet. My local hiking & backpacking area is the Canadian Rockies, we have both back bears & grizzlies. Unless out hunting, no one carries firearms here. Have had 2 encounters with black bears where I had my bear spray ready and didn’t have to deploy it. Thankfully all my grizzly sightings have been at a good distance. Appreciate the main message was about assessing and mitigating risk, a person who doesn’t know how to use the deterrent tool isn’t mitigating the risk as an example.
Hi Dan, great video. It's a complicated discussion for sure. People have a tendency to lump all bears together but there's a big difference between brown bears/grizzly bears vs. smaller and more common black bears. I carry both for various reasons. But for me, the most important thing is being "bear aware" and being on guard. I really enjoyed this vid.
56:00 Very a powerful and insightful message. There has been a surge in popularity in the outdoors. While its kind of annoying to have to share with so many now. Its critical we accept and teach those that are learning to enjoy the outdoors.
i like the idea of packing both, thank god I've never been attached so maybe i have no opinion on this but having both just give more options in whats going to be a very dynamic event living and being outdoors in the western states ive come across black bears a few time and mountain lions a few times... the cats scare me so much more than the bears... the bears typically just run away from you (black bears not browns) and ive hunted black bears... they are not hard to kill, they may be tough but they are thin skinned and easy to take out cats... the mountain lions are more sneaky and even more quiet when they move, they also attach from an ambush situation ... so heres a question, will bear spray work just as well against a lion? ... all things being equal i would rather face a bear vs a lion but either way a real charge is coming much faster than i think i would even be ready for so its not gonna be a fun time and i hope i have extra pants
One of the advantages of bear spray is that it can be deployed while the threat level is still low. You can use it on a bear that is near but hasn't yet acted aggressive, kind of helping an honest bear stay honest. Unless you're bear hunting, shooting a bear that isn't actually charging you won't be a lawful option. As far as dogs are concerned, what dogs can do to endanger you if you're not actually hunting is exactly the same behavior that makes them a great help for hunters.
I carry both. Bear Spray for the wildlife, Firearm for crazy people. Youll find some real weirdos sometimes in the back country.. So at night its my safety blanket.
I'm glad this guy warmed up to the interview, in the beginning, I almost turned it off. EXCELLENT info and interview. I hope people going into the backcountry take time to watch this one.
Great video Dan! This was very informative and answered a number of questions I had about the pros and cons of using both methods to deter bears. Thanks for putting this together!
One more thing about bear safety. After our encounter we always set up an electric fence around our tent. Even if we are in a campground, but we know there are bears in the area, we set it up. At least twice in the last 10 years we are 100% certain it kept a bear out of our gear. We came back to camp both times and the fence was down. Looking around we could see where something went crashing through the woods, presumably after the fence encounter, and found bear hair in the bark of a tree. So if someone is nervous about camping in bear country and you can take it with you the electric fence is a great idea.
Finally, a logical discussion of this topic. They are tools! Not one tool will work in all situations. There are catastrophic examples of failures of both of these tools and you have to make the call on what is the best balance of protection versus risk and make your choice.
Excellent video! True story, a field biologist with group of three surprised a Grizz while doing plant counts. Bear bluff charged, then stopped and turned, BUT the biologist had pulled the clip on his bear spray and dropped it. When he bent over to pick up the clip the grizzly full charged and he unloaded his full spray on the bear. Luckily it stopped and ran off. I'll be mountain biking the Great Divide route again this summer and the bear spray is right on the handlebars, plus riding in Grizz country I'll ride with two or three friends. Thanks for video.
Also there was a study of self defense handgun use against bears of something like 100 instances where someone used a handgun and the results of said use. Failure to stop the attack for whatever reason was very low, under 5%, this included everything from 22lr to 44mag+. These were not specially trained people, just your everyday outdoor people who had a gun and the time available to use it.
This is wild to me 😮 Here in Sweden we have alot of brown bears and either firearms (if you're not hunting) or bear spray are allowed here. Almost all bear attacks in Sweden happened to hunters, during hunting season when the first shot wasn't leathal.
Good topic. Made me think. I am riding off road and camping across America shortly and there were some salutary lessons for me in this video. I live in New Zealand where the only hostile wildlife is a spider that can make you ill. Also no guns here. Previously I have motorcycled through the Rockies carrying bear spray that I did not know how to use and still had its plastic wrapper on after 10 weeks of travel. I also spent 20 years flying in the RAF where my personal weapon was a 9mm pistol and every year I demonstrated on the range I could not hit anything. So I feel unprepared and nervous. But that is an advantage because I am seeking out information and will definitely be looking up "At home in wild space". Forewarned is forearmed as they say!
Couldn’t agree more. Me and my friends came to this same conclusion years ago. Both are necessary for true safety. We added on more piece though. If the spray fails the shooter takes a knee so he’s not shooting down towards his buddy. With this strategy it’s almost impossible to be killed by a bear. Injured yes, but not killed. A group of trained shooters with bear spray and guns. However, I’ll admit to occasionally hiking solo in bear country.
Me and my partner always carry bear spray each, she also carries a little fog horn because it makes her feel better. Just wondering if those bear scare/bear banger are effective at all?
Great video. Not sure I would feel safe with backpackers packing weapons on the AT, CDT or PCT. Sorry to say, but there are all kinds of folks on trail, whether they are drunks, drug addicts or gun happy inexperienced users.
Thanks for the interview Dan and Mike. Very interesting and informative. I have a question for Mille that is off topic: at the very end you comment that much of our food comes from these places but we don’t know it. Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean there is a lot of food broadcasting coming from the back country? I’m asking as someone definitely falls into the “doesn’t know it” category. Thanks.
I started hunting because I felt bear spray wasn't enough while I was out by myself in some remote country. it feel confident having a nice trad bow (the most UL hunting imo) and bear spray
15 years ago in the wilderness of Ontario I figured out the answer to this question. Very aggressive bear that in the end had to be dispatched. One of the guys with us had extensive handgun training and he said there was no way he would have chosen the firearm first. Even after the spray the bear wanted our camp and we gave it to him (relocated). Folks have ZERO idea how fast everything happens and vastly overestimate their abilities with a firearm. When my wife started going with me into the wilderness the first thing I had her do was shot off a can. When we are hiking she carries a can and I carry two. Experience is a great teacher 🙂
I carry both at all times hiking or backpacking. My wife will carry bear spray when she’s with me. I wear a chest rig from 5.11. Which enables concealed carry and easily accessible
One problem that was down played in your video is wind and bear spray. If your attacked we all know how fast it happens, mountain winds are never consistent and always swirling.There is no time to consider wind direction and then decide gun or spray. During an attack instinct takes over, there is no time to make decisions. You are going to go for the same weapon every time. That instinct is going to be driven by which ever weapon you practice with, are most comfortable with, and or is most accessible. Let there be no doubt that if you deploy bear spray into a headwind you will become a statistic, you will be totally defenseless.
Bear spray? Yeah that gonna be a hard no for me . I'll carry a 10mm on hip and a 500 mag on chest. Then maybe some.bear spray also , but rely on only spray? absolutely not
I'm a big fan of the concept of bear spray but saying that bear spray is better for someone who's never touched bear spray is interesting I would wager that more people have handled a firearm and are accustomed to firing a firearm then have handled bear spray and are accustomed to spraying bear spray.
I remember reading a few years back that the most common animal injury to humans, in National Parks, were rodent bites, not bear attacks. People try to feed the cute little fuzzy squirrels and get bit. Their natural foods are pinecones and acorns so those teeth need to be sharp! Thank you for a good and educated discussion on bear spray versus guns. I think you approached it in a balanced and well thought out manner. And I agree that there is a bigger danger in NOT visiting nature than visting it. Responsibility and preparation are key to a safe and enjoyable trip.
I’m going to ask this question, I being from southern Illinois where I only have mountain lions and coyotes to worry about and just clicking your safety will send them scattering; If I were hiking in bear country, would it be worth carrying a rifle, or is that overkill or not allowed?
I always carry in the woods.. but I also always carry in town. But I think spray is best for most people for the simple fact that people tend to freeze in high stress situations let alone place shots accurately. That said I think its silly to go into the woods unarmed. Our personal defense is always up to us. Period. And every situation is different. If you carry a gun. Train with it.
I will make a video comparing my sub 1 second draw to first shot time with a Glock vs the time it takes to draw a bear spray canister and then activate it and point it at the bear. I guarantee you someone who practices drawing their pistol will be much more effective than anyone with bear spray. Also with a pistol you have an increased effective range over the bear spray. This is crucial because you can begin firing at a farther distance and that buys you time. I’m not anti bear spray but if I have a choice it’s a pistol every time
Bear spray is expensive and you can’t bring it on a plane. You can’t ship it back to yourself either. I know you can rent it now from certain vendors. The cost of renting it is almost 1/2 the cost of a can. Air horns might be an option.
I fired a can of bear spray at a black bear from 30 feet away and a gentle cross wind made the spray ineffective. I can barely hit a target with my handgun at 15 yards in a controlled setting. I live in grizzly country 😂
Mike’s argument is flawed. We shouldn’t be discouraging people from carrying guns, we should be encouraging them to get trained and become proficient. Mike isn’t proficient with a firearm from my professional perspective. Not carrying a round in the chamber shows his lack of knowledge on the topic. That’s like a geography teacher believing the world is flat. With that being said, yes carrying bear spray is absolutely a smart idea for everyone in bear country. But I would say the same for a firearm.
Gonna be honest, anyone who carries and says they don't carry with a chambered round, or someone else shouldn't carry with a round chambered, immediately loses credibility.
Dan, thank you for this video and for sharing this information. This is so important, especially here in Canada, where in our National Parks, we are not allowed to carry firearms, let alone discharge them. This is crucial information. Thank you so much!
Backcountry?? I live in a small city in Western Massachusetts. I’ve had 14 bears in my backyard in seven years. My security camera picks them up. The problem with these city bears is they are used to people. My latest video is of mom and three cubs walking in my driveway, down the side of my garage and into my backyard.
What if you don't live in Bear country? I live in Sandiego and hike in the mountains. Do you carry bear spray out of bear country? I see people walking in shorts, t-shirts, and sandals.
Before watching this video, my thought has always been that bear spray would be better except if there's wind ...and the simple fact that your safety is dependent on wind direction is enough for me to not trust bear spray
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's all try to be respectful in the comments. I know this is a hot issue!
Why is this a hot topic? When did self preservation become a touchy subject. The Bear doesn’t feel sorry for us when it attacks us. Neither should we feel sorry for defending our life by any means necessary.
I'm trying but the words come way faster than I can't type. So people mistake or misconstrued what you are saying. So most of these comments, no matter the topic are keyboard fighting 101. Apparently
Like you should have a podcast that you talk with big backpacking and outdoor creators and CEOs like the Nemo and the guy Mike
Kabar usmc😂
That's where it got its name
@@user70331 the marine crops chainsaw!
I've always carried a firearm loaded with Underwood Xtreme Penetrator rounds when I'm in the backcountry. After watching this video I realized that I need to balance that solution out with a can of bear spray. Having options is always better. Great video, gentlemen!
Same. I carry a 10mm in a chest holster with that same ammo.
I had to spray a bear in the summer of '13, it was damned effective, but I still carry a gun as well, I'm a BIG proponent of both.
I would agree normally but in this situation you need to have a protocol in place for which one will be your go to in the heat of the moment. Otherwise you risk being indecisive in that moment and getting neither of them out in time.
@@watchinggearreviews True, but the protocol is easy: Spray First. It is the statistically superior bear defense. If you run out of spray (and you will so damned fast you won't believe it) then you have a firearm with which to fight for your life if you must.
Agree with having both, not because of the statistics, but because they serve different purposes. Being accosted by a slowly encroaching overly curious bear is not a situation i'd feel like i would want to discharge a firearm but would spray. I think the spray numbers have to be slightly overinflated because there are more "successful" encounters that are not true bear attacks
I have to comment on this one. I was working as a fishery biologist outside of Meeteetse, Wyoming with an outfitter that had his dog off leash in a wilderness area. When we crested a hill we saw a female black bear that was protecting its dead cub on the trail and everyone on horses took off. As luck would have it, I was on foot and left behind. The dog however, continued to harass the mother bear and when the bear charged, the dog took off leaving me with an angry mother bear to deal with. I had my bear spray out of the holster and the safety clip was off as well (this is a good argument for practicing and making this a muscle memory occurrence, because I don't even remember doing these things). She bluff charged me then stood up on her back legs and started clacking her jaws. She bluffed two more times and then walked away. She was never close enough to shoot the spray effectively, but it felt like she was on top of me. I love dogs and I cannot stress enough that they need to be on leash in bear country! Thank you for such and important video for us hikers!
So the dog killed the bear cub? I read this right? Damn that’s a vicious dog. What breed?
You need new friends or a horse. LOL Sorry I couldn't resist.
Having a unleashed dog in bear country can work in two ways. Either the dog chases a bear out of your path and prevents a confrontation or a dog riles up a bear that wouldn't of engaged you and then you have to put the bear down . I never leash up my dog in bear country because my house is in bear country . However I make noise as I walk and try not to let my dog go more than 30 yards ahead of me on hikes .
Papa, i doubt the dog killed the cub. More likely scenario was the bear was a male & he killed it & was about to or eating the cub when the dog showed up. Since female bears rarely bluff & you were bluffed TWICE I doubt it was the mother. Male bears kill female bears protecting their cubs all the time. Kill/ eat the cubs too. Real shame you didnt have the time/ resources to investigate the entire scene. 25 years w the AK F&G dept & ALL bears are cannibals & even a sow will eat her own dead cubs. Sometimes they kill their own wounded or weakest & eat them too. If i were you id sue that outfitter for criminal negligence & make sure he at least lost his license. Theres NO excuse for abandoning a man on foot like that. Especially an UNarmed one. On the backside of that coin, YOU should have been armed as well. Bears are always armed, people in bear country should be too.
As someone who always carries both bear spray and a sidearm whenever I go into the wilderness I can say this was an excellent conversation that should get people to evaluate their preparedness and their limitations. I appreciate the honesty and lack of any agenda besides providing unbiased information.
This is a GREAT video on the subject of bears, guns and spray! I carry a side arm in the bush AND I carry spray! I have used my spray on dogs in the past…never had to use spray on a wild animal. Been over 20 years of experience. Always good to practice at home! Again, thank you both for this video!
The closest to using my bear spray has been on a ram and a moose. I have encountered many bears black and grizzly and it is mostly about knowing how to act. Bear spray /firearm are always a last resort.
I've hunted large game my whole life including being on bear hunts for brown and black bears. I've watched bears charge after 2 or more well placed shots from large caliber rifles. Bears are extremely fast and close the gap in a blink of an eye. Neither is a guarantee especially if the bear is determined.
You're talking about shots in the body? Shot in the head is instant kill?
@pio7763
Everyone thinks they are the best at shooting until they realize they aren't when it happens.
@@nightowl7261 who is everyone? I just wonder about all these stories of immortal bears and how it's possible. Did Bear scul is bulletproof or people just aim in the body. Bear is so big and strong I can believe shooting entire gun magazine won't stop him.
@@pio7763 Skull is thick and naturally sloped. Body is huge with lots of muscle and heavy bones. The bear won't bear immediately even if you hit the heart or brain, both of which are very tough targets. Early pioneers didn't believe a grizzly would be so tough either when facing a musket or Kentucky rifle instead of an arrow, but they quickly learnt that even a massive musket ball usually wouldn't bring one down.
@@pio7763 I've seen guys need 10-15 shots from a large caliber rifle to kill a grizzly. You think you can aim at a 600lb animal coming at you at 35 mph and and pull off head shots while you are crapping your pants?
Sold a car to an Alaskan wildlife photographer who had been attacked by 4 Grizzley bears over the course of his career. He said the first attack was in the 80's, so of course he had a 45, unloaded it into the bear (one hit the skull, but didn't penetrate it, 6 hit the body, one missed), and it took over 5 minutes of intense mauling before the bear's jaw opened. After a year in the hospital he ended up being attacked again, this time with a some hot .44 Magnum, and waited until the bear was actually on him so that he could unload all 8 rounds into it's head. Even then, brain gone, the bear's jaw didn't unlatch from his neck/shoulder for minutes, and he still needed major surgery, had a broken neck, and almost bled out. The third time out he had an AR-10 (308) loaded with hot hunting rounds, it was probably 15 years later so the ammo was much better, and this time he was able to get away without too much damage, even though it took 30 rounds during the bear charge to do it. The 4th time he had the rifle, but was attacked in his tent, used bear spray that he had ready to go for just that scenario, and he walked away completely unscathed - his conclusion - carry a rifle with plenty of proper ammo, and double up on the bear spray if you're gonna be around 1000lb Grizzley bears.
HOWEVER, he has photographed thousands of Black bears, and cited a study done by some wildlife preserve or something that compared about 100 provoked black bear attacks, and simply loudly yelling while making yourself appear huge (arms in the air, jumping), worked exactly as well as throwing rocks, and using normal pepper gel to the face (not bear spray). I later googled the study and found it to exist and back that up, although it's been over 10 years since then, so who knows what other research has been done. His summary on black bears was that you don't need a gun at all, so leave them alone and buy some pepper gel if you're worried - they're cute and likely don't need to be shot in any normal circumstance. He also mentioned that something called dog spray is a slightly larger and further projecting option if you're looking for a still lightweight alternative to bear spray (which is overkill for a black bear), but still very effective.
Figured I'd add this in just in case someone was interested! Be safe out there! I personally just carry a tiny Saber Red pepper gel when camping anywhere that doesn't have Grizzlies, and maybe a small firearm (CCW) if I'm going to be near any sketchy towns or areas with lots of drug issues.
The first case was odd, how a bear with a bullet in his brain can still attack. Every mammal brain is similar, shot in the head is usually instant kill. The second case was also strange. Bear was holding his neck while he was shooting 8 times into his head? Maybe this photographer didn't aim very well, it's possible in such an extremely stressful situation.
@@pio7763Agreed, it does sound strange! I know those skulls are thick and hard, just not sure how hard. The missed shots are definitely very likely. Also who knows how exaggerated the stories have become over the years haha. I know if they didn't hit any brain, the bears' hearts only beat a few times a minute, so the hypovolemic shock a human would experience would take quite a bit longer, and if they did hit the head, maybe the bear's reflexes kept it biting down for a while after it died?
Who knows, but definitely interesting stories at the very least!
What's this photographers name? Not saying this story's untrue but 30 rounds of 308 or the brain shot to bits by a 44 but still biting? Does sound a bit unbelievable. Surely this is someone who'd have some articles on them after experiencing 4 bear attacks, especially being a career photographer
This photographer lied to you. One far fetched story is one thing, multiple by one person is a campfire story to push an agenda.
If a guy had been mauled 3 times by bears we would know about him. Sounds like he was telling tall tales.
Both! I’m ex-military and firmly believe in peace through deterrence (Bear spray) and when that fails bring overwhelming fire superiority (gun) to bare (pun intended).
Seriously though, great video for those who haven’t considered their defense on the trail. For those who lack firearm’s training, please don’t carry around a gun. An attack without warning isn’t when one finds out their defensive plan is more a sense of hope rather than a plan.
If carrying a gun, please practice. It’s darn near impossible to hit what you want to hit under stress, when the target is moving and without practice. Also consider the consequences of missing the bear in a group.
FULL DISCLAIMER: I’ve only had one Bear encounter within 50 feet and it was resolved without spray or bullets.
I carry pepper spray and a firearm in town for self defense. These are both tools for different applications. The same goes for out in the back country: two tools with a different applications, different training and mindset considerations.
Where the heck do you live?
I have both. I carry a gun mostly for two-legged predators. A raging black bear or cougar is unlikely, but I feel better with protection. Shooting a grizzly with a handgun, even a rifle at close range is a dumb idea.
Why not air horn? Rei sells mini version of marine horns. Those super loud and will scare crap out of anything. Also marine handheld flare likely to be extremely effective for close encounters
@@user70331 a flare would be a horrible idea and probably illegal in California. We can only use butane stoves in the back country. An air horn is not a bad idea, as Bear spray is illegal in Sequoia NP. I go to remote places and often alone. I've had strange encounters with people more than anything. PC 12027 allows for concealed carry with a fishing license in the CA wilderness. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
@@user70331 read the instructions on those "bear horns"... They want you to sound them every 30minutes so scare them away. That is not my ideal backcountry experience. That said I do own one and would likely be great for an encounter with a black bear or mountain lion... It's typically not best to scare a grizzly when you are face to face with it.
@@user70331this kind of response tells me that *you* are uncomfortable with firearms and thus are uncomfortable with anyone else carrying one no matter their comfort level with firearms.
@@bilge-rat that's OK as long as bear not using coke I'll be fine😁
I think most people who think they could take down a Grizzly have never seen how fast and gnarly they are in person .
A determined grizzly will be on you before he could have pulled anything out to shoot/spray.
@@maximusjoseppi5904 How many times have you shot a bear that was running you down?
Rangers and biologists in Grand Teton and Yellowstone carry bear spray. Some are hunters and still prefer bear spray over a gun.
I think most mandem who think I couldn’t take down a Grizzly haven’t seen me beat corn out the dinger
If you are a master, tourney winner shot, then still you might not be ready at a situation you never encountered before. So spray is the way, the cloud is going to hit its target way more likely.
Gun I'm not worried about the animals. It's the people you need protect from. I'm a retired park ranger.
Haha! Bear Spray will deter humans too.
@@WanderingBobAK, Humans will shoot you before you can pull your spray. Humans kill for fun. Bears dont. Actually safer w bears than people.
@@WanderingBobAKalso, guns are very effective against humans too!!!
I think it depends on the person but if you want to use spray i highly suggest going out on a light wind day with a can of spray and see how well it actually functions (obviously do this in a secluded area). Ditto for someone who carries a gun use it and use it regularly or it can be more harm then good.
Excellent video. Best middle of the road, factual video without being hard on one side versus the other. Well done.
John Phillips, Not hardly. No coverage of Bear spray failures. Bunnyhugger biased.
I live in the mountains of vermont. We have lots of black bears. I hike and camp deep in the backcountry very often! From my experience they tend to stay away from us. I have firearms experience and do carry almost daily. Me personally when im out hiking, camping or fishing i carry a .357 and bear spray! I do not want to shoot a bear. But i will protect my dog and myself! My dog is very good and is very alert! More than once shes froze and turned around! I trust her nose and instincts! All this said, 100’s of miles hiked and dozens of camping trips and not once have i had a bear encounter. I have had however had bears in my backyard! More than once! I often see them back by the river which is a few hundred yards away. Simply do what you feel comfortable with. But! Get the proper training! And be proficient!
Adventuresw Piper. Black bears are natural maneaters. Its their size that determines their ferocity. Once theyre as tall as you standing your on the menu if theyre hungry enough.
I have always packed a gun living in Idaho where we have black bears and grizzlies. I have never had a problem with bears being aggressive even though I’ve met them on the trail. It seems like the mountain goats are more of a problem around camp. Don’t pee around your tent because the goats are after the salt and will knock your tent over.
Great interview. I like this format of interviewing knowledgeable guest speakers that relate to the outdoors.
Id love to see you do one on outdoor etiquette and LNT. I came across a campsite recently where a number of LNT was clearly not followed.
I've had 5 bear encounters in my life time. all 5 times a firearm was present (mine or a person with me). of these 5 encounters never a shot fired and no one was ever attacked. 2 of the encounters had the bear within 4 feet before it turned away. of those 5 encounters bear spray was never present. i will add that during 3 of these encounters a firearm was drawn on the bear (2 times from a holster and once was a rifle).
cost of practicing with a firearm dry fire is free, .20 to 50 cents a round for live fire. . aim small miss small.
You need a wheelbarrow to carry those giant nuts if you let a bear get that close lol
@@Kypreparedness lol! It was never on purpose. When they stand up and start walking towards you, you don't have a lot of options. The first time there was a cliff behind us we had no choice but to stand our ground. The second time was a cub that ran into our camp and almost bumped into me. As soon as he saw us he turned and ran we never saw mom but we heard her breathing.
@@josephseebart8488, Stand up & walk toward you? On what planet?? They only stand up to assess the situation. Then they drop & charge.
@@josephseebart8488, You need to quit Smoking dope, your wild imagination is out of control.
US Forest Service says that if you're hiking in bear country you should wear bells on your pack and carry pepper spray. If you see bear squat on the trail and not sure if it was from a black bear or grizzly here's how to tell the difference. Black bear squat will be smaller and contain berries, grizzly squat will be much larger, contain bells and smell like pepper spray
Bells don’t work! You’re more likely be a walking dinner bell as what we call it instead 😂.
You need both.
Living in Areas with animals like this my whole entire life, hunted in Montana lived in North Idaho and Northern Washington, up by Canadian line in the rockies, my whole life, with cougars, grizzly, and black bears
you 100% need both.
Not only for the preservation of your own life, but for the Wildlife as well.
Every situation is different, therefore you need different tools for those situations.
You (should always have a gun) absolutely,
but there's many situations you don't need to use it, you can use your spray instead saveing both you and the animal, if it's windy out don't pull the spray I mean come on.
With that said, if enough too curious of
Bears gets sprayed by people, they will learn to stay away from them from fear.
If you only have a split second to react then pull your gun, if you have a moment to deploy some spray to deter the animal to go away, then do it,
it's not that complicated.
You will be able to tell in the moment what you should deploy, if it happens to be your gun then so be it.
This was a very informative video. It reminds of a old Boy Scout saying..
BE PREPARE. I'll be planing to see his video. Thanks.
I just finished watching this video. We found you because my wife and I are, for the first time, exploring backpacking. We're in our mid 50's so a little late, but I digress. I wanted to thank you for this video. It was 100% on point. I have 30 years of law enforcement firearms training, and I am also a firearms instructor for concealed carry in my state. I'm a huge 2nd amendment guy, but I, too, am a huge proponent of accepting the responsibilities that go hand in hand with firearm ownership and I was so glad to see that was one of the core discussions. I know this was focused on the bear threat, but I'd like to add that, though very small, there is a human threat out there as well, and I will always carry a firearm when I'm out in "the back country" for that reason. I fear the bad intentions of humans much more than I fear a bear attack, though I'd prefer to avoid both. Again, thank you for this very frank discussion. I think many people need to hear it whether they want to or not!
How many people practice shooting at an 800 lb ball of fur and teeth charging them at 30 mph? I’m a gun owner and practice regularly. Gun for two legged predators bear spray for the four legged.
How often do you practice shooting at a 2 legged predator attacking you. By your standards it would be dumb to own a gun because you don't practice against humans. Or saying its pointless because if 5 people break in to your home with guns you'll have a hard time defending against that.. at least you can try is the point. in polar bear territory they don't carry bear spray because once a bear decides to attack and eat you its going to.
Weird logic. Do you hunt people?
2 legged? 😂😂😂 chickens??
@@destroystreets1023
@randomletter-5i4 my point is when the bear wants to eat you they give you a gun not a can of spray. But i guess if your spray doesnt freeze it better than nothing
Thanks for doing this. Living 20miles from Glacier Park it’s nice to hear something new .
My college roommate says he carries a .22 pistol when hiking for bears. He says it is to shoot his buddy in the leg so he can outrun him. 🤣
🤣
😂😂😂😂
😂
Based on what he said in this video, if you have a hiking buddy, the chances of a bear attack is nearly ZERO. But I get the joke.
🤣🤣🤣
A friend of mine who had been backpacking for over 50 years never went into the backcountry without a firearm and he would say “it’s not the four footed creatures I’m wary of; it’s the two footed ones.” He carried bear spray for the four footed ones. 😂
only once have i ever had to worry about two footed ones. glad there was a firearm present because they had one two. thank God they were not willing to go down that road.
What two footed ones
People
@@maximusjoseppi5904 yeah that's why I live by the quote. "Stay strapped or get clapped" - the Sandelorian
Bear spray works on the 2 legged ones as well!
I have asthma and although it’s controlled with meds, I wouldn’t ever want to risk exposing myself to mace. I’m less worried about four legged animals, I’m worried about the bipeds. Plus, bear spray won’t go through a car window or car door, but a pew-pew will; I car camp a lot and even though I lock my doors at night, I’m prepared for an attempted break-in while I sleep in my car.
Great video. I like respectful conversations like this. I am more towards carrying a gun, but your guest does make some valid points. I live on Vancouver Island, and we only have black bears. I found by making some noise is all you need to do. I think it's up to the individual to decide. You just better know how to use it, gun or spray.
This is very interesting informative, discussion. What is funny, in a sad way, is the number of people who think they know what they would/could do in a high stress, life or death situation, where the decision making time is a split second. There is a reason the military trains incessantly, so that in a high stress situation soldiers instinctively rely on their training. The vast majority of gun owners do not have access to that training
I usually carry both. But when you are in a bear situation, it’s hard to think and a stick might be the weapon of choice. Bear situations can happen fast and having multiple choices is always the best choice.
There are times that bear spray is not very effective. Bear sprays are considered a pesticide by the U.S. government and must be registered with the EPA. In doing so, the government requires that bear spray can contain no more than 1 - 2% O.C. ( oleoresin capsicum) which is a natural oil found in plants, including cayenne peppers and chillies, the ingredient that causes the burning sensation.
In comparison, pepper spray that might be used on 2-legged animals, can contain as much as 23% (or more) O.C. A much stronger deterrent. Next time you have a can of bear spray check the label. You will see no more than 2% O.C. and sometimes as little as 1% O.C. It is relatively weak compared to pepper spray. Pepper spray typically only sprays a short distance, usually 6-12 feet. Some go a little more, some a little less. Whereas bear spray typically sprays 25-30 feet and usually in a large fog. So, pepper spray's range is too short for bear. IMO. A brown bear can travel 12 feet in less than a second running at full charge.
Besides being relatively weak another problem with bear spray (as mentioned in video) is when it's windy, and especially if the wind is blowing directly at or even in the direction of the person using the bear spray. If the wind blows the spray at you it can end up burning the eyes and throat of the person trying to defend against the bear, which may temporarily disable the person.
That could make it very hard to open your eyes to see the bear and also to breathe. Not a very good thing to have happen if a dangerous bear is coming at you.
Bear spray is under pressure and can sometimes not work well at elevations over 7000 feet. Bear spray does seem to work against bears that are just curious or maybe only giving a false charge. Bear spray does not work as well against a bear that is guarding a kill, especially if you unknowingly get between the bear and it's food source, or if a mother bear feels that you're a threat to her cubs, even if you're not close to the cubs, or if you accidentally happen to surprise a bear. Especially if it's sleeping.
I know there are a lot of people that for whatever reason are not comfortable with firearms or maybe don't feel very proficient with one. If that's you and there's no way you see yourself carrying a firearm then absolutely carry bear spray. It won't always work in every situation, but it is better than not having anything. I have friends in Alaska. They don't bother with bear spray, saying they don't trust it. They prefer to carry a rifle, shotgun with slugs, or a large caliber handgun with heavy, hard-cast bullets. A good option in bear country would be to carry both a firearm and bear spray. Make sure you make noise when you hike, most bears will turn and leave when they hear people. Oh, and don't hike alone.
I have lived in Montana my entire life. I hunt, fish, camp, hike, backback... I carry both. You definitely should if you safely can in my opinion. If a firearm is out of the question for one reason or another. I have seen people with a small Air Horn and Bear spray. Not a bad idea in high bear areas I dont think. Always wear your seatbelt!
Great video - I have carried both a 10mm with Underwood penetrators, and spray for years. Every situation requires thought about which is appropriate. Strong wind in your face, spray is far more limited. In your tent at night, spray is likely worthless, but in most other situations I'd go to the spray first. Practice extensively with both, and you better have thought about varying situations beforehand. A charging bear presents a poor time for flip flopping between options.
I'm Canadian and a backpacker, and I've only ever backpacked in black bear country. I've never encountered a bear that I've seen. I travel solo in the backcountry. I'm obsessive about not having food or anything scented stuff in camp unless I'm actively cooking or eating it. Otherwise it's up in a tree half km downwind of camp. Since I'm Canadian and could be considered a city girl, a gun as a bear deterrent has never and would never cross my mind. I am considering bear spray though and so far this video is encouraging me to pick some up for my next trip. Maybe I'm a little bit hippy or whatever, but something seems wrong to me about killing / shooting a bear while I'm encroaching their territory purely for recreation, so I wouldn't judge someone who has little choice in sharing their territory with bears. @Danbecker, I love your channel!
I'm an Australian who has seen a lot bears in Canada when I rode a motor cycle across the country. They are there and run with the encounters I had or ignored me. I know this may be different for others.
I’ll always have a 10mm no question
Most individuals underestimate the Grizzly's ability to close distance in a hurry. I've seen people here in Banff National Park get out of the car, walk 100 ft to the train tracks looking for The Boss/Split Lip. Both of which could be hiding in the forest 20 ft away from the tracks. Good luck making it back to the car if they decide to make you a meal.
Thanks! Mister Becker, I'm A guy that was raised In the city and I would like to start going outdoors and bring my son with me. He is now one years old. And I'm 53 and I'm a little scared. And I would like to go alone as well and enjoy the woods.I have such a deep love for Camping? But looking at your videos you've made all the difference thank you
I carry a Glock 40 (10mm), with Buffalo Bore 220gr hard cast led, in a Kenai Chest holster. I love it.
Sweet set up! I’ve been looking at that same chest holster for awhile. Right now I have a holster I put molle clips on and attached it to my Eberlestock bino harness
Look, I carry a gun over pepper spray for one simple reason: I'm severely asthmatic. Pepper spray is far more likely to screw me over than the bear. I practice, I carry a 45 long colt revolver with extreme penetrator underwood ammunition, and I stay alert in the woods. Thats my two cents, not saying its great for everyone just that pepper spray is not the answer for me.
This was an amazing video! Of all the things that struck me the most was your conversation around dogs on the trail. 100% leash at all times on the trail.
Fantastic conversation, best episode yet. My local hiking & backpacking area is the Canadian Rockies, we have both back bears & grizzlies. Unless out hunting, no one carries firearms here. Have had 2 encounters with black bears where I had my bear spray ready and didn’t have to deploy it. Thankfully all my grizzly sightings have been at a good distance. Appreciate the main message was about assessing and mitigating risk, a person who doesn’t know how to use the deterrent tool isn’t mitigating the risk as an example.
you'd have to be insane to go out into the Canadian Rockies without a Firearm.
@@06XTOR guess I am and know a lot of insane people then.
I like these types of videos and appreciate you interviewing experts in their respective field. Keep it up Dan!
Hi Dan, great video. It's a complicated discussion for sure. People have a tendency to lump all bears together but there's a big difference between brown bears/grizzly bears vs. smaller and more common black bears. I carry both for various reasons. But for me, the most important thing is being "bear aware" and being on guard. I really enjoyed this vid.
56:00 Very a powerful and insightful message. There has been a surge in popularity in the outdoors. While its kind of annoying to have to share with so many now. Its critical we accept and teach those that are learning to enjoy the outdoors.
i like the idea of packing both, thank god I've never been attached so maybe i have no opinion on this but having both just give more options in whats going to be a very dynamic event
living and being outdoors in the western states ive come across black bears a few time and mountain lions a few times... the cats scare me so much more than the bears... the bears typically just run away from you (black bears not browns) and ive hunted black bears... they are not hard to kill, they may be tough but they are thin skinned and easy to take out
cats... the mountain lions are more sneaky and even more quiet when they move, they also attach from an ambush situation ... so heres a question, will bear spray work just as well against a lion? ... all things being equal i would rather face a bear vs a lion but either way a real charge is coming much faster than i think i would even be ready for so its not gonna be a fun time and i hope i have extra pants
Very informative interview, Dan. Thanks!
One of the advantages of bear spray is that it can be deployed while the threat level is still low. You can use it on a bear that is near but hasn't yet acted aggressive, kind of helping an honest bear stay honest. Unless you're bear hunting, shooting a bear that isn't actually charging you won't be a lawful option.
As far as dogs are concerned, what dogs can do to endanger you if you're not actually hunting is exactly the same behavior that makes them a great help for hunters.
I carry both. Bear Spray for the wildlife, Firearm for crazy people. Youll find some real weirdos sometimes in the back country.. So at night its my safety blanket.
So politically correct… How can we erect the statue to you?
I'm glad this guy warmed up to the interview, in the beginning, I almost turned it off. EXCELLENT info and interview. I hope people going into the backcountry take time to watch this one.
Thanks for providing such interesting content. It is good to show all angles of being outdoors.
The best answer is probably both. But whatever you choose to carry know how to use it properly.
Great video Dan! This was very informative and answered a number of questions I had about the pros and cons of using both methods to deter bears. Thanks for putting this together!
I live outside of Yellowstone. When I’m hiking alone I commonly carry two cans of spray. Peace of mind…
One more thing about bear safety. After our encounter we always set up an electric fence around our tent. Even if we are in a campground, but we know there are bears in the area, we set it up. At least twice in the last 10 years we are 100% certain it kept a bear out of our gear. We came back to camp both times and the fence was down. Looking around we could see where something went crashing through the woods, presumably after the fence encounter, and found bear hair in the bark of a tree. So if someone is nervous about camping in bear country and you can take it with you the electric fence is a great idea.
Finally, a logical discussion of this topic. They are tools! Not one tool will work in all situations. There are catastrophic examples of failures of both of these tools and you have to make the call on what is the best balance of protection versus risk and make your choice.
Excellent video! True story, a field biologist with group of three surprised a Grizz while doing plant counts. Bear bluff charged, then stopped and turned, BUT the biologist had pulled the clip on his bear spray and dropped it. When he bent over to pick up the clip the grizzly full charged and he unloaded his full spray on the bear. Luckily it stopped and ran off. I'll be mountain biking the Great Divide route again this summer and the bear spray is right on the handlebars, plus riding in Grizz country I'll ride with two or three friends. Thanks for video.
If you don't practice with any defensive tool you might as well not bring it. Situational awareness is just as important as a firearm or bear spray.
Bear incidents are pretty rare. It’s people that I’m worried about.
Also there was a study of self defense handgun use against bears of something like 100 instances where someone used a handgun and the results of said use. Failure to stop the attack for whatever reason was very low, under 5%, this included everything from 22lr to 44mag+. These were not specially trained people, just your everyday outdoor people who had a gun and the time available to use it.
A COMPANY CALLED AMMOLAND HAS NUMBER OF HANDGUN USES ON BEARS.... HANDGUNS WORK.
This is wild to me 😮 Here in Sweden we have alot of brown bears and either firearms (if you're not hunting) or bear spray are allowed here.
Almost all bear attacks in Sweden happened to hunters, during hunting season when the first shot wasn't leathal.
Good topic. Made me think. I am riding off road and camping across America shortly and there were some salutary lessons for me in this video. I live in New Zealand where the only hostile wildlife is a spider that can make you ill. Also no guns here. Previously I have motorcycled through the Rockies carrying bear spray that I did not know how to use and still had its plastic wrapper on after 10 weeks of travel. I also spent 20 years flying in the RAF where my personal weapon was a 9mm pistol and every year I demonstrated on the range I could not hit anything. So I feel unprepared and nervous. But that is an advantage because I am seeking out information and will definitely be looking up "At home in wild space". Forewarned is forearmed as they say!
I've ridden off-road across America and Canada. The bears all ran from the bike.
Couldn’t agree more.
Me and my friends came to this same conclusion years ago.
Both are necessary for true safety.
We added on more piece though.
If the spray fails the shooter takes a knee so he’s not shooting down towards his buddy.
With this strategy it’s almost impossible to be killed by a bear. Injured yes, but not killed.
A group of trained shooters with bear spray and guns.
However, I’ll admit to occasionally hiking solo in bear country.
Me and my partner always carry bear spray each, she also carries a little fog horn because it makes her feel better. Just wondering if those bear scare/bear banger are effective at all?
Great video. Didnt know that there is training cans available for purchase. Gotta look into that.
Great video. Not sure I would feel safe with backpackers packing weapons on the AT, CDT or PCT. Sorry to say, but there are all kinds of folks on trail, whether they are drunks, drug addicts or gun happy inexperienced users.
Thanks for the interview Dan and Mike. Very interesting and informative. I have a question for Mille that is off topic: at the very end you comment that much of our food comes from these places but we don’t know it. Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean there is a lot of food broadcasting coming from the back country? I’m asking as someone definitely falls into the “doesn’t know it” category. Thanks.
Excellent job of interviewing Dan. Thanks.
I started hunting because I felt bear spray wasn't enough while I was out by myself in some remote country. it feel confident having a nice trad bow (the most UL hunting imo) and bear spray
The bullet has to be PERFECTLY placed .... Spray is like a SHOTGUN. the end.
15 years ago in the wilderness of Ontario I figured out the answer to this question. Very aggressive bear that in the end had to be dispatched. One of the guys with us had extensive handgun training and he said there was no way he would have chosen the firearm first. Even after the spray the bear wanted our camp and we gave it to him (relocated). Folks have ZERO idea how fast everything happens and vastly overestimate their abilities with a firearm. When my wife started going with me into the wilderness the first thing I had her do was shot off a can. When we are hiking she carries a can and I carry two. Experience is a great teacher 🙂
I carry both at all times hiking or backpacking. My wife will carry bear spray when she’s with me. I wear a chest rig from 5.11. Which enables concealed carry and easily accessible
Great conversation and information.
One problem that was down played in your video is wind and bear spray. If your attacked we all know how fast it happens, mountain winds are never consistent and always swirling.There is no time to consider wind direction and then decide gun or spray. During an attack instinct takes over, there is no time to make decisions. You are going to go for the same weapon every time. That instinct is going to be driven by which ever weapon you practice with, are most comfortable with, and or is most accessible. Let there be no doubt that if you deploy bear spray into a headwind you will become a statistic, you will be totally defenseless.
I have been seeing those bear horns at the store lately. Anyone have any experience with those?
I carry a 6'7" Spartan type of spear & hair spay in grizzly country.
Hair spray ! ha.. i bet that would work
To settle the debate once and for all the answer is............. BOTH
Bear spray? Yeah that gonna be a hard no for me . I'll carry a 10mm on hip and a 500 mag on chest. Then maybe some.bear spray also , but rely on only spray? absolutely not
I'm a big fan of the concept of bear spray but saying that bear spray is better for someone who's never touched bear spray is interesting I would wager that more people have handled a firearm and are accustomed to firing a firearm then have handled bear spray and are accustomed to spraying bear spray.
BOTH!
I remember reading a few years back that the most common animal injury to humans, in National Parks, were rodent bites, not bear attacks. People try to feed the cute little fuzzy squirrels and get bit. Their natural foods are pinecones and acorns so those teeth need to be sharp! Thank you for a good and educated discussion on bear spray versus guns. I think you approached it in a balanced and well thought out manner. And I agree that there is a bigger danger in NOT visiting nature than visting it. Responsibility and preparation are key to a safe and enjoyable trip.
I’m going to ask this question, I being from southern Illinois where I only have mountain lions and coyotes to worry about and just clicking your safety will send them scattering; If I were hiking in bear country, would it be worth carrying a rifle, or is that overkill or not allowed?
Crazy amount of quality info here!
Noobhiker. Key word is CRAZY & info is an oxymoron.
I always carry in the woods.. but I also always carry in town. But I think spray is best for most people for the simple fact that people tend to freeze in high stress situations let alone place shots accurately. That said I think its silly to go into the woods unarmed. Our personal defense is always up to us. Period. And every situation is different. If you carry a gun. Train with it.
"One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough about a subject to think you're right, but not enough about the subject to know you're wrong."
I carry both
I’m surprised there’s no mention of things like bear bells to make noise so you don’t accidentally sneak up on a bear.
I will make a video comparing my sub 1 second draw to first shot time with a Glock vs the time it takes to draw a bear spray canister and then activate it and point it at the bear. I guarantee you someone who practices drawing their pistol will be much more effective than anyone with bear spray. Also with a pistol you have an increased effective range over the bear spray. This is crucial because you can begin firing at a farther distance and that buys you time. I’m not anti bear spray but if I have a choice it’s a pistol every time
Yes.
Yup
Let the hippies use their bear spray. Bears like Buffalo wings hikers. 😂
Crack me up! Show all your vids in a controlled setting. 99% of people will fail when SHTF. PS - Whete's your video, Ted.
Seems like a very reasonable and informed guy to me. I'd trust his judgement.
Bear spray is expensive and you can’t bring it on a plane. You can’t ship it back to yourself either. I know you can rent it now from certain vendors. The cost of renting it is almost 1/2 the cost of a can. Air horns might be an option.
I fired a can of bear spray at a black bear from 30 feet away and a gentle cross wind made the spray ineffective. I can barely hit a target with my handgun at 15 yards in a controlled setting. I live in grizzly country 😂
What I have learned from all this, the best thing to take into the back country is a slightly slower friend.
Great discussion. Thanks@
Hiking the winds again this summer, if we run into you on the trail, our dog is always leashed and I always let people know in advance he is friendly
Mike’s argument is flawed. We shouldn’t be discouraging people from carrying guns, we should be encouraging them to get trained and become proficient. Mike isn’t proficient with a firearm from my professional perspective. Not carrying a round in the chamber shows his lack of knowledge on the topic. That’s like a geography teacher believing the world is flat.
With that being said, yes carrying bear spray is absolutely a smart idea for everyone in bear country. But I would say the same for a firearm.
Gonna be honest, anyone who carries and says they don't carry with a chambered round, or someone else shouldn't carry with a round chambered, immediately loses credibility.
@@DevDog67100%
Great discussion! Thank you for the education.
Dan, thank you for this video and for sharing this information. This is so important, especially here in Canada, where in our National Parks, we are not allowed to carry firearms, let alone discharge them. This is crucial information. Thank you so much!
What do you think about bear-bangers? Are they hard to deploy fast enough?
Backcountry?? I live in a small city in Western Massachusetts. I’ve had 14 bears in my backyard in seven years. My security camera picks them up. The problem with these city bears is they are used to people. My latest video is of mom and three cubs walking in my driveway, down the side of my garage and into my backyard.
I carry a 458 Lott no matter what hike I’m on. Never can be too careful
What if you don't live in Bear country? I live in Sandiego and hike in the mountains. Do you carry bear spray out of bear country? I see people walking in shorts, t-shirts, and sandals.
Yes, better to have it for any kind of threat.
Before watching this video, my thought has always been that bear spray would be better except if there's wind ...and the simple fact that your safety is dependent on wind direction is enough for me to not trust bear spray
The mountains are ALWAYS windy...lol I live in the mountains. Bottom line, carry both. Having a gun can and will save your life.