the film was rediscovered in about 1994 when at New York’s Film Forum it was described as lost a member of the audience shouted out “No it’s not! I know where it is!”. it is undergoing restoration which should be done by 2014
Bob, thanks for posting this! I just picked up the Warner Archive DVD-R release of this wonderful film and its brilliant A/V restoration. Many thanks to Seth Winner for his hard work, and to Ron Hutchinson of the Vitaphone Project for supplying the discs from his collection, and of course to all involved in the discovery and repatriation of the film from the Cineteca di Bologna film archive!
Thanks for shooting this. I've been collecting films for years and one of my treasures is Don Juan on 16mm. This was the first Vitaphone feature. I have a copy of the brochure that accompanied it and the purpose for Vitaphone was to get smaller theaters to be able to experience what the big theaters had with full orchestration. Mr. Winner is making these discs sound better than they ever have. Thank you so much!
After 33 years in radio, my ears are so shot I can hardly tell the difference. The movie studios always seemed to have an advantage over record companies in sound quality. I've seen the finished product with the lovely Colleen Moore. Worth the work. Great nickel.
Seth Winner is SUCH a wonderful guy and I am egging him on all the way. Vitaphone was soooo beautiful. And it still is. I'm going to throw a party for Vitaphone's 100th birthday in 2026. 😘
Hopefully, we can get this long lost Colleen Moore movie restored before it is to late.My understanding is that is stashed away in a film vault someplace in Italy. It's wonderful that all the sound discs have been uncovered. We appreciate all the hard work that is being done to resurrect this vintage Vita-phone score.
Yeah, it's a regular silent synchronized film, so there's always sound effects. The opening scene of the film must be a performance of some kind because there is an audience applauding.
I know I just left a comment but I want to mention I love watching these old movies and hadn't even realized what Vitaphone meant on the beginnings of the old films til I did research and read up a little today on it on how they used records with the movies for the sound and it was really fun to see you dubbing one of the disc. Wish more of these fascinating old films could be saved. Both the music and the entertainment back than was fun.
I had a BEAUTIFUL VITAPHONE disc.... it rolled off the shelf and shattered in a million pieces... It was TRULY sad... I'll never forget it... never seen another since and that was MANY years ago....
"Why Be Good?" was essentially a romantic comedy; shop girl [Colleen Moore] meets rich boy [Neil Hamilton]; rich boy's father objects to their relationship; has her fired from the store he just happens to own; she sees him again; he's determined to see if she's a "good" girl...
well this is prety much what i do when i transfer wax cylinders and 78s to the digital format forever playing with a 100 or so styluses and trying to avoid the wow efect i also love it that he uses a over weight on the cartridge he uses coins i use rolled up strips of leadfoil this because when a coin falls off the cartridge it can and will damage the grooves the little lead roll just dents when it goes skipping over the platter the weight helps to make maximum contackt to the grooves and it will reduse clicks and pops with normal recreational playing half this weight ir suficient
Sound quality is amazing ! I had the chance to have in my hands a disc that only said "Napoleon" (about 20 years ago!) and I realized it might have been Abel Gance's Napoleon. I've listened to some parts back then and it had music and sound effects only. It's really a pitty I don't have it now!
I hear some nice playing by Jimmy Dorsey on clarinet. Does the film exist for this disc? There's some really nice music here - aside from Tiger Rag, I hear Freshman Hop and Here Comes My Ball and Chain - played at a really fast clip.
Is this a shellac record? I heard you say it was cracked. The Vitrolac Vitaphone records probably would not have cracked, right? They switched over around 1931. Victrolac was invented by RCA Victor, specifically for these Vitaphone records.
Barton, F.C. (1931). Victrolac Motion Picture Records. Journal of the Society of Motion Picture Engineers, April 1932 18(4):452-460, describes the work done in 1930 to develop a material to solve the problem of fragile Vitaphone discs. I have a copy if you are interested.
Unless there is extra noise that I can't hear, that sure seems to be the sound effects on the disc of a crowd clapping and cheering? Not noise of the disc?
I have to ask; what kind of cartridge is he using that requires 'coins' on the headshell? Especially with an SME tonearm! Something like a a GE VR cart, I could understand, but not on modern carts. As to the rest of it; I go through pretty much the same ritual of physical alignment. As he's running the Cedar noise reduction solution, you get the benefit in real time. Pricey though. I use the the same turntable, and software solutions for NR. I've had a few Vitaphone discs too.
I read a few years ago that it was possible to digitize original analogue disks using laser technology - presumably this would mean no possibility of damage to fragile media, and the adjustments required to extract the best possible sound could be carried out in the computer rather than by, for example, trying multiple heads or balancing coins on the arm. Is the laser method not yet the best solution?
The laser method has only been achieved with long playing discs and apparently is not entirely foolproof. How much more complex it would be for shellac discs which have varying groove widths. It's a nice idea whose time has not yet arrived.
I've run the Finial laser turntables and they work very well for dealing with LPs that have torn-up grooves, but the noise floor is far higher than with conventional playback because dust that a stylus would brush away turns into a huge ka-chunk when the laser detects it. So if you have a damaged record where only one section of the groove has any high frequency information left, the Finial will let you find that section, but you'll be in for a lot more noise reduction afterward (and noise reduction artifacts). There are now some experimental systems for non-microgroove discs but they still have the same inherent problems. It's horses for courses.
Where is Seth located? I just found that I have a disc that contains reels 6&8 of DW Griffith's Lady of the Pavements (1929) From what I have read many of these discs were thought to be lost. It's in great shape and I'm thinking of digitizing it before something happens. I have a transcription Rek O Kut player, but not near the equipment that Seth has.
Because this was an impromptu on-the-spot video taken with a point-and-shoot camera. Of course, line input was used for the dubbing, just not for this video.
I hear ya. I just would be curious to hear what the quality was like right off the disc. My other question would be how do you know it will match picture without and kind of locking to a projector (done in the old days with 60 hz bi phase synchronous motors) How do you know the speed is correct?
VERY instructive! Hi Seth. Hi Bob. In remastering, I also center 78s when dubbing them, for the exact same reason - to correct for "wow," especially nearest the center. Seth, I noticed you STOP the turntable, adjust the disc, then start it again. How come? I need the disc constantly to be rotating, adjusting it 'in flight' (as you do) with a careful nudge, then observing either the groove or the cartridge. When there is no lateral motion of either, then the record is centered, Q.E.D. With Vitaphone discs, it's hard to determine centeredness at 33-1/3 RPM, so I correct it at 78, center the thing, THEN slow it down to the proper speed. (See th-cam.com/video/V7CSkLi2REU/w-d-xo.html for some of my latest work.) I love the fully restored "Why Be Good," by the way.
the film was rediscovered in about 1994 when at New York’s Film Forum it was described as lost a member of the audience shouted out “No it’s not! I know where it is!”. it is undergoing restoration which should be done by 2014
hi
Bob, thanks for posting this! I just picked up the Warner Archive DVD-R release of this wonderful film and its brilliant A/V restoration. Many thanks to Seth Winner for his hard work, and to Ron Hutchinson of the Vitaphone Project for supplying the discs from his collection, and of course to all involved in the discovery and repatriation of the film from the Cineteca di Bologna film archive!
Thanks for shooting this. I've been collecting films for years and one of my treasures is Don Juan on 16mm. This was the first Vitaphone feature. I have a copy of the brochure that accompanied it and the purpose for Vitaphone was to get smaller theaters to be able to experience what the big theaters had with full orchestration. Mr. Winner is making these discs sound better than they ever have. Thank you so much!
After 33 years in radio, my ears are so shot I can hardly tell the difference. The movie studios always seemed to have an advantage over record companies in sound quality. I've seen the finished product with the lovely Colleen Moore. Worth the work. Great nickel.
Seth Winner is SUCH a wonderful guy and I am egging him on all the way. Vitaphone was soooo beautiful. And it still is. I'm going to throw a party for Vitaphone's 100th birthday in 2026. 😘
two years till then
Hopefully, we can get this long lost Colleen Moore movie restored before it is to late.My understanding is that is stashed away in a film vault someplace in Italy. It's wonderful that all the sound discs have been uncovered. We appreciate all the hard work that is being done to resurrect this vintage Vita-phone score.
Yeah, it's a regular silent synchronized film, so there's always sound effects. The opening scene of the film must be a performance of some kind because there is an audience applauding.
The opening scene takes place in a night club.
I know I just left a comment but I want to mention I love watching these old movies and hadn't even realized what Vitaphone meant on the beginnings of the old films til I did research and read up a little today on it on how they used records with the movies for the sound and it was really fun to see you dubbing one of the disc. Wish more of these fascinating old films could be saved. Both the music and the entertainment back than was fun.
"If You Want The Rainbow (You Must Have The Rain)" shows up too. So many great late 20's songs all in one reel!
The sound qwality is pretty good!
I had a BEAUTIFUL VITAPHONE disc.... it rolled off the shelf and shattered in a million pieces... It was TRULY sad... I'll never forget it... never seen another since and that was MANY years ago....
what film was it from? do you still have the shards?
+Shane Fleming Films no.... I do not, it was decades ago
Fascinating stuff. The music quality sounds tremendous.
He has a small casio keyboard next to the monitor just like the one I bought brand new once back in the 80's. That thing was fun.
i love this cool vitaphone.
The master at work.
"Why Be Good?" was essentially a romantic comedy; shop girl [Colleen Moore] meets rich boy [Neil Hamilton]; rich boy's father objects to their relationship; has her fired from the store he just happens to own; she sees him again; he's determined to see if she's a "good" girl...
One could only hope that this could be converted to DTS to keep the spirit of Vitaphone alive.
well this is prety much what i do when i transfer wax cylinders and 78s to the digital format forever playing with a 100 or so styluses and trying to avoid the wow efect
i also love it that he uses a over weight on the cartridge he uses coins i use rolled up strips of leadfoil this because when a coin falls off the cartridge it can and will damage the grooves the little lead roll just dents when it goes skipping over the platter
the weight helps to make maximum contackt to the grooves and it will reduse clicks and pops with normal recreational playing half this weight ir suficient
Like learning from what you said.
But, very difficult to read as written.
Gee wizz . . .
I'm sorry to have come so late to the game, here!
...and with no comments in a long time, it seems.
I certainly do admire your stick-to-it-tiveness!
WWWonderful Lesson for me!
Have been an avid & devoted student of
VITAPHONE "MAGIC©" TALKING PICTURES
and
Kalmus' TECHNICOLOR PRODUCTIONS
since 1968.
With Warm Regards, from Florida,
~CJM . . .
Tampa
"You ain't heard nuthin' yet!"
. . . and, I need to get more involved.
I hope during this transfer to digital process much thought and care is given to surface noise reduction.
I had no idea you could correctly play a record that was pressed off center. Might I add that the image quality sounds positively magnificent?
Don't forget that you need to clean the discs before dubbing them:
Cleaning a Vitaphone Disc
as a DJ 55 years ago we played struck off center demos occasionally with no problems.
Sound quality is amazing ! I had the chance to have in my hands a disc that only said "Napoleon" (about 20 years ago!) and I realized it might have been Abel Gance's Napoleon. I've listened to some parts back then and it had music and sound effects only. It's really a pitty I don't have it now!
I hear some nice playing by Jimmy Dorsey on clarinet. Does the film exist for this disc? There's some really nice music here - aside from Tiger Rag, I hear Freshman Hop and Here Comes My Ball and Chain - played at a really fast clip.
Is this a shellac record? I heard you say it was cracked. The Vitrolac Vitaphone records probably would not have cracked, right? They switched over around 1931. Victrolac was invented by RCA Victor, specifically for these Vitaphone records.
hyzercreek Why be good is a 1928 movie. The discs are shellac.
Barton, F.C. (1931). Victrolac Motion Picture Records. Journal of the Society of Motion Picture Engineers, April 1932 18(4):452-460, describes the work done in 1930 to develop a material to solve the problem of fragile Vitaphone discs. I have a copy if you are interested.
I noticed the disc is an inside start.
+Edwin Harvey yes, all Vitaphone discs are inside start.
Unless there is extra noise that I can't hear, that sure seems to be the sound effects on the disc of a crowd clapping and cheering? Not noise of the disc?
Plus the sound of dancers' feet?
I have two office of price information 16 inch lp's are they worth anything?
Seth Winner is THE wizard of old recording transfers. The rest are amateurs.
I have that same turntable, technics SP-15 ?
I have to ask; what kind of cartridge is he using that requires 'coins' on the headshell? Especially with an SME tonearm! Something like a a GE VR cart, I could understand, but not on modern carts.
As to the rest of it; I go through pretty much the same ritual of physical alignment. As he's running the Cedar noise reduction solution, you get the benefit in real time. Pricey though. I use the the same turntable, and software solutions for NR. I've had a few Vitaphone discs too.
stratocat9999 ... Something about mass vs cartridge compliance I suspect. Not necessarily for downward force.
I read a few years ago that it was possible to digitize original analogue disks using laser technology - presumably this would mean no possibility of damage to fragile media, and the adjustments required to extract the best possible sound could be carried out in the computer rather than by, for example, trying multiple heads or balancing coins on the arm. Is the laser method not yet the best solution?
The laser method has only been achieved with long playing discs and apparently is not entirely foolproof. How much more complex it would be for shellac discs which have varying groove widths. It's a nice idea whose time has not yet arrived.
I've run the Finial laser turntables and they work very well for dealing with LPs that have torn-up grooves, but the noise floor is far higher than with conventional playback because dust that a stylus would brush away turns into a huge ka-chunk when the laser detects it. So if you have a damaged record where only one section of the groove has any high frequency information left, the Finial will let you find that section, but you'll be in for a lot more noise reduction afterward (and noise reduction artifacts).
There are now some experimental systems for non-microgroove discs but they still have the same inherent problems. It's horses for courses.
It's going to be a long, long time before any laser system replaces tactile playback. Nice idea... but, naw... gimmie a stylus.
Where is Seth located? I just found that I have a disc that contains reels 6&8 of DW Griffith's Lady of the Pavements (1929) From what I have read many of these discs were thought to be lost. It's in great shape and I'm thinking of digitizing it before something happens. I have a transcription Rek O Kut player, but not near the equipment that Seth has.
He doesn't have a website. Google "Seth B. Winner Sound Studios" - and you'll find him.
Why coins on the head shell ?
Why do people never use the LINE INPUT WHEN DEMONSTRATING THIS STUFF??????????????????????????
Because this was an impromptu on-the-spot video taken with a point-and-shoot camera. Of course, line input was used for the dubbing, just not for this video.
I hear ya. I just would be curious to hear what the quality was like right off the disc. My other question would be how do you know it will match picture without and kind of locking to a projector (done in the old days with 60 hz bi phase synchronous motors) How do you know the speed is correct?
Demais!!!
Sounds just like tom and jerry! lol
VERY instructive! Hi Seth. Hi Bob. In remastering, I also center 78s when dubbing them, for the exact same reason - to correct for "wow," especially nearest the center. Seth, I noticed you STOP the turntable, adjust the disc, then start it again. How come? I need the disc constantly to be rotating, adjusting it 'in flight' (as you do) with a careful nudge, then observing either the groove or the cartridge. When there is no lateral motion of either, then the record is centered, Q.E.D. With Vitaphone discs, it's hard to determine centeredness at 33-1/3 RPM, so I correct it at 78, center the thing, THEN slow it down to the proper speed. (See th-cam.com/video/V7CSkLi2REU/w-d-xo.html for some of my latest work.) I love the fully restored "Why Be Good," by the way.
What vitaphone film short did this sound disc came from? Is it restored ?
In the explanation field above it says it's reel 1 of the 1929 film "Why Be Good?" which has been recently restored.
Thank you.Is this the Vitaphone project?
Yes, the film was reunited with the discs through the Vitaphone Project.
Yes, the discs were reunited with the film thanks to the Vitaphone Project.
www.wbshop.com/product/why+be+good-+1000541759.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=Search
Ridiculously outdated equipment 😂