I’m so glad that you made the video! You always provide us with such valuable information. I will eventually switch all of my filters to aquarium coop too! They’re great. Now I just use UGF for Medaka ponds.
interesting video! very different from what a lot of shrimp keepers on YT are saying, who seem to praise the UGF I'm still learning caridina shrimp keeping myself, haven't had a ton of great success with it. I'm running UGF but it's in addition to a canister filter (the canister has a baby shrimp safe intake) so I think many of the issues you listed are avoided. The outlet is also slightly above the water surface so I think i'm safe from shrimp getting into it, but I'll be sure to check more often now. One of the big selling points for UGF is that it lowers PH even more than just having the substrate on the bottom of the tank + easier to replace the soil. Seems like you came up with an alternate solution with the potted plants method. I am curious what your PH is with UGF vs soil in pots. Also! Would love to know what type of soil you can recommend to get 5.5-6ph. Ada amazonia 1 is discontinued and very hard to come by. I've been trying Brightwell and also ordered some SL Aqua to test out.
In my next few videos you will see successful breeders in other parts of the world where we will see how pH isn't the focus area. We have been probably too fixated on what is measurable vs observation where the shrimp well being and breeding cycle happens. Even at higher pH at 6 6.5 breeders can also breed caridina. Parameters should be a range vs absolute. If we keep chasing the numbers sometimes we forget about the value of things.
I can see what you mean about the UGF boxes not being effective for beneficial bacteria, but what about PH buffering? How do you keep your ph consistently low if your water is not always flowing through the substrate?
@@ShrimpSanctuary I’ve been having trouble getting my ph down, I’m using Tropica aquarium soil and RO water and I’m stuck at a ph of 7.4. It’s just that ive seen videos of people measuring PH levels when using UGF box and they show that the ph is lower in the water coming out of the outlet vs the rest of the tank. My RO water comes at 7 but then I add in some salty-shrimp GH/KH powder and the ph goes to 7.4 and I’m unable to drag it lower even with 2 inches of substrate in my nano cube (possibly because of the added KH. I’ve been adding a lot of almond leaves and wood but I’m unsure how to get it to a desired level for my caridina. Any suggestions?
@@Condoctuc Yes KH is preventing pH to change. That is the main reason why the pH isn't coming down. If you would like to try again, you can consider adding only GH to reminerize. You can even do this test in a small cup, add soil, use RO water, add GH+ only and test the pH. If the pH doesn't come down, the soil maybe a bad batch. it should come down. also a lot of test kit can't measure lower pH. get a reliable pH meter if needed or a test kit that is able to measure below 6. report back the finding, thanks.
@@ShrimpSanctuary I’ll test it out, I’ve read online that saltybee GH KH+ definitely pushes up the ph levels as well, it put my KH at a 2-3 and I didn’t think it would make my ph hold like that, even the almond leaves don’t seem to bring it down much (0.2 max) and my tank is very tinted from the tannins. I’ll have to experiment with what you said, thanks. If not I’ll go with some strong soil ista5.5 and possibly replace like 50% of my soil with it (a bit worried about ammonia spikes if I replace all the soil at once). May start with a plant pot half full of ista and then slowly top it up so my system can catch up.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding: The UGF works by pulling water through the substrate. As it does so, the substrate essentially acts as a mechanical filter while also releasing the acid it uses to maintain lower pH. This strategy should bring more substrate into contact with flowing water and improve consistent release of acid to keep pH stable, but likely also depletes the substrate faster. The substrate in a UGF is likely very bioactive with a lot of beneficial bacteria due to the water flow throughout it. I'd argue this is supported by the article you screenshot, as it showed the UGF they tested was able to oxidize ammonia perfectly well. A UGF is very different from a 1-inch layer of substrate without water flowing through it. A sponge filter, on the other hand, has plenty of surface area for beneficial bacteria but doesn't have the space to put as much active substrate. The water flowing over the top of the substrate on the floor of the tank is what's responsible for pulling more acid out of the substrate and maintaining pH. The exposed surface area of the substrate would be the determining factor in in this setup for how stable the pH is. Depending on the tank volume, that may be more or less effective than a UGF. Have you considered trying a tank with a sponge filter embedded in one of those pots filled with active substrate? In theory, the sponge filter would pull water through the substrate to provide the benefits of a UGF, but there wouldn't be any space for shrimp to get stuck.
In theory it is a great concept. in practice it's entirely different. we tested this when i' was still using UGF. Pulling of Water through substrate cannot be substantiated that's why i even use a hang on to try test the concept a hybrid model. we tried different UGF and place dye material or even broken down gunk 1 CM above the substrate and squirt to see how the pull factor. The pull factor into the UGF is almost negligible. With a negligible pull, how can then the concept of "stable pH" be done? pH doesn't go up or down by itself, it requires a low KH 0-1 to even adjust pH. Conceptually the idea is great if the science backs it, if we put active soil into a pail without filtration, the pH will be low. It is what the soil is designed to do. If not all the planted tank people will have to put a UGF box in their award winning piece. what is happening is the flow from the outlet is circulating the tank water to provide a consistent environment, hence the HMF, airlift method works best in this area. Circulation rate, 5x 10x is the language when we speak to fish breeders globally, i think we can def. improve more in this area. That is also why we find efficiencies in large scale breeders and not sellers.
@@ShrimpSanctuary Really interesting - Thanks for sharing! If you're looking for content, showing these tests and more about your thought process would be awesome. It sounds like you're saying a hamberg-matten filter provides the most consistent environment. If so, why do you stick with sponge filters in your tanks?
@@shrimplyexplained my home setup is with all hang on back totto filters. It's really awesome. From a larger scale perspective my other facility setup i use sponge to drive cost down but didn't find it really great without the airlift. so now we have sponge + airlift in one, that helped with circulation tremendously. i like the airlift on the HMF but didn't like the idea of washing the large sponge on the HMF multiply 100 tanks. sponge filter is a handful, Matten is a hugful, big difference when scaling also depends if there is anybody helping you out. i'm doing all it all myself like how a hobbyist does it. Hence the HMF went through various variation from a flat sponge left to right to a standalone block, which in the end is what we are using Sponge + airlift. i'm always trying to see ways to improve and not being fixated on one and keeping an open mind. That being said, we are more focus on quality of shrimp well being and find ways to ensure we continue with that. if you are keen join us on Sunday live and i can explain further to your questions.
@@ShrimpSanctuary Your responses are always very thorough and I appreciate them immensely. It looks like you have a pretty large facility so I'm surprised you can manage it all by yourself. The pipework for your water changes and top-offs looks well-planned though so I'm sure that helps! I'm not very familiar with totto filters or the term "airlift" so I'll have to do some research. From context clues, I'm wondering if you mean something like an airstone? I'm often working on Sunday mornings but will try to make the stream time this coming weekend!
@@shrimplyexplained i'm a hobbyist and automation helps. th-cam.com/video/XrnhcYdExXI/w-d-xo.html Totto is a Japanese brand hang on back filter, it is one of a kind type of filter. Also check out PowerHouse Filter media from Japan. They even have research done with Osaka University on porosity of media. In Asia we have a lot going on in the aquarium scene, new products, technology, innovation due to the very competitive landscape.
I have tried UGF boxes and I agree they can be dangerous. Sponge filters are easy to maintain compared to UGF.The Co-op filters are great I would like to replace all my UGF boxes with them 👍
I’ve used ugf 6 years never had a shrimp in box. For me with few tanks I can cycle a ugf box with Ada in a bucket so reset is very simple . Good thing with shrimp keeping is there no right or wrong way. It’s what works for the individual
@@glpshrimp6301 it's my mistake, if we have known each other 6 years ago, it could be different. Alright jokes aside, i think what Jon is trying to say is efficiencies are found in large scale breeders not through what can be sold. i will discuss this topic in our Sunday live session.
I’m so glad that you made the video! You always provide us with such valuable information. I will eventually switch all of my filters to aquarium coop too! They’re great. Now I just use UGF for Medaka ponds.
Pleasure is all mine. Glad you have seen both sides to decide what works best for your shrimps. ❤
Very good video, we also moved away for the same reasons and also saw no difference between them and our systems with sponge filters in
Dankie Neil! yes technically adding more steps to the process doesn't make any sense. Keeping it simple.
interesting video! very different from what a lot of shrimp keepers on YT are saying, who seem to praise the UGF
I'm still learning caridina shrimp keeping myself, haven't had a ton of great success with it. I'm running UGF but it's in addition to a canister filter (the canister has a baby shrimp safe intake) so I think many of the issues you listed are avoided. The outlet is also slightly above the water surface so I think i'm safe from shrimp getting into it, but I'll be sure to check more often now.
One of the big selling points for UGF is that it lowers PH even more than just having the substrate on the bottom of the tank + easier to replace the soil. Seems like you came up with an alternate solution with the potted plants method. I am curious what your PH is with UGF vs soil in pots.
Also! Would love to know what type of soil you can recommend to get 5.5-6ph. Ada amazonia 1 is discontinued and very hard to come by. I've been trying Brightwell and also ordered some SL Aqua to test out.
In my next few videos you will see successful breeders in other parts of the world where we will see how pH isn't the focus area. We have been probably too fixated on what is measurable vs observation where the shrimp well being and breeding cycle happens. Even at higher pH at 6 6.5 breeders can also breed caridina.
Parameters should be a range vs absolute. If we keep chasing the numbers sometimes we forget about the value of things.
Great video. Thanks for sharing the information!
Thanks for watching!
Great Bene
Sauberle
@@ShrimpSanctuary Alla guud 😁
@@ShrimpSanctuary perfect German
I can see what you mean about the UGF boxes not being effective for beneficial bacteria, but what about PH buffering? How do you keep your ph consistently low if your water is not always flowing through the substrate?
The soil doesn't need flow over the soil to release pH. As long soil contacts with water it adjust the pH.
@@ShrimpSanctuary I’ve been having trouble getting my ph down, I’m using Tropica aquarium soil and RO water and I’m stuck at a ph of 7.4. It’s just that ive seen videos of people measuring PH levels when using UGF box and they show that the ph is lower in the water coming out of the outlet vs the rest of the tank.
My RO water comes at 7 but then I add in some salty-shrimp GH/KH powder and the ph goes to 7.4 and I’m unable to drag it lower even with 2 inches of substrate in my nano cube (possibly because of the added KH. I’ve been adding a lot of almond leaves and wood but I’m unsure how to get it to a desired level for my caridina.
Any suggestions?
@@Condoctuc Yes KH is preventing pH to change. That is the main reason why the pH isn't coming down. If you would like to try again, you can consider adding only GH to reminerize. You can even do this test in a small cup, add soil, use RO water, add GH+ only and test the pH. If the pH doesn't come down, the soil maybe a bad batch. it should come down. also a lot of test kit can't measure lower pH. get a reliable pH meter if needed or a test kit that is able to measure below 6. report back the finding, thanks.
@@ShrimpSanctuary I’ll test it out, I’ve read online that saltybee GH KH+ definitely pushes up the ph levels as well, it put my KH at a 2-3 and I didn’t think it would make my ph hold like that, even the almond leaves don’t seem to bring it down much (0.2 max) and my tank is very tinted from the tannins.
I’ll have to experiment with what you said, thanks. If not I’ll go with some strong soil ista5.5 and possibly replace like 50% of my soil with it (a bit worried about ammonia spikes if I replace all the soil at once). May start with a plant pot half full of ista and then slowly top it up so my system can catch up.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding: The UGF works by pulling water through the substrate. As it does so, the substrate essentially acts as a mechanical filter while also releasing the acid it uses to maintain lower pH. This strategy should bring more substrate into contact with flowing water and improve consistent release of acid to keep pH stable, but likely also depletes the substrate faster.
The substrate in a UGF is likely very bioactive with a lot of beneficial bacteria due to the water flow throughout it. I'd argue this is supported by the article you screenshot, as it showed the UGF they tested was able to oxidize ammonia perfectly well. A UGF is very different from a 1-inch layer of substrate without water flowing through it.
A sponge filter, on the other hand, has plenty of surface area for beneficial bacteria but doesn't have the space to put as much active substrate. The water flowing over the top of the substrate on the floor of the tank is what's responsible for pulling more acid out of the substrate and maintaining pH. The exposed surface area of the substrate would be the determining factor in in this setup for how stable the pH is. Depending on the tank volume, that may be more or less effective than a UGF.
Have you considered trying a tank with a sponge filter embedded in one of those pots filled with active substrate? In theory, the sponge filter would pull water through the substrate to provide the benefits of a UGF, but there wouldn't be any space for shrimp to get stuck.
In theory it is a great concept. in practice it's entirely different. we tested this when i' was still using UGF. Pulling of Water through substrate cannot be substantiated that's why i even use a hang on to try test the concept a hybrid model. we tried different UGF and place dye material or even broken down gunk 1 CM above the substrate and squirt to see how the pull factor. The pull factor into the UGF is almost negligible.
With a negligible pull, how can then the concept of "stable pH" be done?
pH doesn't go up or down by itself, it requires a low KH 0-1 to even adjust pH.
Conceptually the idea is great if the science backs it, if we put active soil into a pail without filtration, the pH will be low. It is what the soil is designed to do. If not all the planted tank people will have to put a UGF box in their award winning piece.
what is happening is the flow from the outlet is circulating the tank water to provide a consistent environment, hence the HMF, airlift method works best in this area. Circulation rate, 5x 10x is the language when we speak to fish breeders globally, i think we can def. improve more in this area.
That is also why we find efficiencies in large scale breeders and not sellers.
@@ShrimpSanctuary Really interesting - Thanks for sharing! If you're looking for content, showing these tests and more about your thought process would be awesome.
It sounds like you're saying a hamberg-matten filter provides the most consistent environment. If so, why do you stick with sponge filters in your tanks?
@@shrimplyexplained my home setup is with all hang on back totto filters. It's really awesome. From a larger scale perspective my other facility setup i use sponge to drive cost down but didn't find it really great without the airlift. so now we have sponge + airlift in one, that helped with circulation tremendously. i like the airlift on the HMF but didn't like the idea of washing the large sponge on the HMF multiply 100 tanks. sponge filter is a handful, Matten is a hugful, big difference when scaling also depends if there is anybody helping you out. i'm doing all it all myself like how a hobbyist does it. Hence the HMF went through various variation from a flat sponge left to right to a standalone block, which in the end is what we are using Sponge + airlift.
i'm always trying to see ways to improve and not being fixated on one and keeping an open mind. That being said, we are more focus on quality of shrimp well being and find ways to ensure we continue with that. if you are keen join us on Sunday live and i can explain further to your questions.
@@ShrimpSanctuary Your responses are always very thorough and I appreciate them immensely. It looks like you have a pretty large facility so I'm surprised you can manage it all by yourself. The pipework for your water changes and top-offs looks well-planned though so I'm sure that helps!
I'm not very familiar with totto filters or the term "airlift" so I'll have to do some research. From context clues, I'm wondering if you mean something like an airstone?
I'm often working on Sunday mornings but will try to make the stream time this coming weekend!
@@shrimplyexplained i'm a hobbyist and automation helps.
th-cam.com/video/XrnhcYdExXI/w-d-xo.html
Totto is a Japanese brand hang on back filter, it is one of a kind type of filter. Also check out PowerHouse Filter media from Japan. They even have research done with Osaka University on porosity of media.
In Asia we have a lot going on in the aquarium scene, new products, technology, innovation due to the very competitive landscape.
I have tried UGF boxes and I agree they can be dangerous. Sponge filters are easy to maintain compared to UGF.The Co-op filters are great I would like to replace all my UGF boxes with them 👍
Super!
Moved away from these. Found it completely irrelevant if you are resetting regularly.
Hard truth
I’ve used ugf 6 years never had a shrimp in box. For me with few tanks I can cycle a ugf box with Ada in a bucket so reset is very simple . Good thing with shrimp keeping is there no right or wrong way. It’s what works for the individual
You do you. I know plenty of guys esp the big Vietnamese / Thai breeders dumping UGF’s ages ago. They have all moved on from 6 years ago.
Like I said each to their own whatever works for the individual
@@glpshrimp6301 it's my mistake, if we have known each other 6 years ago, it could be different. Alright jokes aside, i think what Jon is trying to say is efficiencies are found in large scale breeders not through what can be sold. i will discuss this topic in our Sunday live session.