00:00 Introduction --Preface 01:20 Traveller’s evolution and that’s effect on popularity 06:00 Classic Traveller was almost a PC game like Neverwinter Nights in 2002 07:00 Traveller 5 08:00 Death during character creation, but build real heroes 09:00 Modern day character creation systems still create chumps 10:50 References and where to get the books today 12:50 Origins 1977 and the first release 15:00 Moves magazine review from Origins 1977 17:50 Science Fiction of the 70s 23:20 Starlog magazine as a kid --Rules 24:00 Combat 8+ Basic Throw to Hit 27:45 What Modifies the Basic Throw to Hit 30:30 Expertise 34:10 Expertise and Cascade Skill for Blade Combat and Gun Combat 37:20 Advantageous Dexterity and Strength 39:30 Range 43:15 Weapon Matrix (Weapon damage vs Mitigation of Armor) 45:18 Damage and Range Together 47:29 Evasion 48:24 Summary (Traveller’s to hit is really hit and deliver effective damage) 50:20 Example: Gun Combat (Rules as Written) 53:45 Example: Gun Combat (House Rule) 57:55 Player Choice Empowers Tactical Role Playing
@@Classic_DM Yeah with the new technology now they could redo the Megatraveller games and have them look like Skyrim. There are a lot of people still playing Classic Traveller on Roll 20 and I have been able play with people all over the US. So Traveller is alive and well and still being played !
Also I may experiment with the house rule of "to hit" and " to cause damage". I need to run some simulations in some of the games I have built to see how that impacts game time and complexity but it makes sense that even if you hit someone's Bullet proof vest it may not result in a penetration.
9:50 Who seriously gets 45 minutes into character creation before they die? Five, maybe. I think the people who complain never actually experienced it. It's a risk-vs-reward control, just like the aging and re-enlistment rolls.
Plus, it can provide backstory for the character who does survive... like, "My brother died while he was with the scouts and I think there was some sort of cover-up."
I always liked that you could die during chargen in Traveller. It's not like it takes all that long to make a PC (I find Pathfinder and 5e to be much more tedious) and dying sets you up with potential for backstory... that dead character could have been a brother or friend or some other connection the the character that lived. It also introduces an element of gambling, waying the risk of additional terms of service to get more perks. I get that it's not for everyone, but... as with the general lack of XP/mechanical improvement... it sets Traveller apart. There are plenty of games that don't do those things for people that don't like them. That being said, if only Classic Traveller had had an optional system for points-buy chargen, I wouldn't have had to listen to people complain about it for all these years.
For folks interested in The Traveller Book, a print-on-demand hardcover can be purchased from DriveThru RPG and it's not that expensive, honestly. Definitely buy the CD, but I also bought the hardcover because I'm old-school and I like to have something in my hands.
Really good informative vid on a great game that has always deserved more attention. While early D&D seems to benefit from its "generic" nature combining influences from a number of sources, I think Traveller may have been hurt by its foundation in generic science fiction...or put another way, the run-a-way popularity of SW just at the time of Traveller's release meant a lot of folks seeking to play SW may not have found what they were looking for in this otherwise excellent game. It's always seemed a bit of an anomaly that D&D, while being based on a niche sub-genre of science fiction, gained more popularity than Traveller or any other game which draws upon science fiction for its inspiration. Is there something about fantasy fans that predispose us for jumping into ttrpg?
D&D put effort into marketing themselves not only to children but also as synonymous with ttrpg. And it worked! Kids grew up with a D&D cartoon complete with a dungeon master and all those kids became D&D-style dungeon masters for the generation after that. Traveller never stood a chance _in the market_ being an adult game for _adults_ who like to play pretend.
I'm kind of molding the version I like out of the various iterations of Cepheus - FTL, Light, Light Upgraded, Deluxe and the third-party SF version all handle the fundamental elements a little differently. But I think it's possible to cobble a modern equivalent of the LBB out of them.
After play testing my latest game module I'm building I realized that I hated CT rules regarding being unable to hit combat armor or battle dress with simple slug throwers... So I modified my rules to adapt Megatraveller penetration vs. armor rules and it allows players / characters to at least hit these guys with heavier armor even if its only 1 point of damage. I normalize all of the "task rolls" to the old 8+ system and now weapon damage vs. heavier armor types is more realistic.
I love your solution. I agree 100% "to hit" rolls have nothing to do with mitigation. I have to always remind myself that AD&D and CT come from a wargaming era in the mid 70s where everything was d6 and revolved around tables. We've been playing so long, have played so many video game systems, that that rudimentary type of simulation actually diminishes the game's play. Modifications like yours are awesome. I love it.
Around 39:40 you mention meters being an odd uni of measurement for those outside the United States. Did you mean an odd/difficult unit for those within the US?
@@Classic_DM Okay great that’s what I presumed but wanted to double check. Units of measure are especially strange for us up in Canada it’s a real mix of Imperial and Metric! Great video series thanks for making it I’m excited to try out Traveller!
@@JamesFirth-v It's such a magical game. I'm actually writing a free intro adventure for it this summer for fun, kind of like the Indigo Oasis one I did for Pathfinder Second Edition. www.telliotcannon.com/shop
Thanks for the kind words! I never played the Cepheus SRD although I have a copy. Mongoose Traveller is a great modernization without going the lame d20 route imo. However, their books are pricey as are their *.PDFs! When I get the Traveller bug, I use my CT Landscape Books from 2000 for story/sectors/skill etc. and modify combat so my blood thirsty mercenary players don't die in one hit with the rules I have for Decimation WW 2.
Another mod to armour vs dmg could be a threshold type system, where margin of success/failure changes damage done. so you would have the target of 11, and your roll an 8, you'd have a margin of -3 (8 armor pen roll - 11 effective armor value = -3 margin of failure) So if you get a hit and roll the armor pen, a margin of -7 to -5 is like d2 dmg, -4 to -3; 1d6 dmg, -2 to 0: 2d6 dmg, 0+ (ie you met or exceeded the the armor value with pen roll) : 3d6 (or whatever full weapon damage is). You could just make a table with standardized damages per armor pen roll based on weapons as well to make it a bit more consistent. The game already has the crunch, may as well lean into it fully. Getting shot even in full plate sucks, it's just not usually fatal.
I love Twilight2000's system for damage and penetration. Every weapon rolls multiple dice for Damage and has a Penetration (PEN) by range band that was rated from 1/2 to 1,2,3,4 OR NIL (meaning no penetration of any armor). Lower is better with PEN. ARMOR (ARM) was rated from 1/2 to 1,2,3,4,5 etc... with higher being better. Upon a hit, ARM is multiplied by PEN to determine the number of Damage dice that pierce the armor. So an Assault Rifle with Dam 3, PEN 2, hits a helmet (ARM 1). 2×1=2 so 2 is subtracted from the 3 DAM giving you 1 die of Damage. A battle rifle doing 4 DAM with PEN 2 would do 2 dice of Damage after penetrating that helmet.
00:00 Introduction
--Preface
01:20 Traveller’s evolution and that’s effect on popularity
06:00 Classic Traveller was almost a PC game like Neverwinter Nights in 2002
07:00 Traveller 5
08:00 Death during character creation, but build real heroes
09:00 Modern day character creation systems still create chumps
10:50 References and where to get the books today
12:50 Origins 1977 and the first release
15:00 Moves magazine review from Origins 1977
17:50 Science Fiction of the 70s
23:20 Starlog magazine as a kid
--Rules
24:00 Combat 8+ Basic Throw to Hit
27:45 What Modifies the Basic Throw to Hit
30:30 Expertise
34:10 Expertise and Cascade Skill for Blade Combat and Gun Combat
37:20 Advantageous Dexterity and Strength
39:30 Range
43:15 Weapon Matrix (Weapon damage vs Mitigation of Armor)
45:18 Damage and Range Together
47:29 Evasion
48:24 Summary (Traveller’s to hit is really hit and deliver effective damage)
50:20 Example: Gun Combat (Rules as Written)
53:45 Example: Gun Combat (House Rule)
57:55 Player Choice Empowers Tactical Role Playing
You did a really comprehensive job on this.
I subscribed.
I wish there were more hits here.
Thanks again, Manfred. I hope I can do more CT content if work slows down!
I wish I saw this about 40 yrs ago when I first started playing : ) I really liked the practical way you break down the rules. Thanks for sharing !
Thanks for the cool feedback! I wish CT had an open license.I'd love to do adventures for it using Unreal V.
@@Classic_DM Yeah with the new technology now they could redo the Megatraveller games and have them look like Skyrim. There are a lot of people still playing Classic Traveller on Roll 20 and I have been able play with people all over the US. So Traveller is alive and well and still being played !
Also I may experiment with the house rule of "to hit" and " to cause damage". I need to run some simulations in some of the games I have built to see how that impacts game time and complexity but it makes sense that even if you hit someone's Bullet proof vest it may not result in a penetration.
9:50 Who seriously gets 45 minutes into character creation before they die? Five, maybe. I think the people who complain never actually experienced it. It's a risk-vs-reward control, just like the aging and re-enlistment rolls.
Plus, it can provide backstory for the character who does survive... like, "My brother died while he was with the scouts and I think there was some sort of cover-up."
I always liked that you could die during chargen in Traveller. It's not like it takes all that long to make a PC (I find Pathfinder and 5e to be much more tedious) and dying sets you up with potential for backstory... that dead character could have been a brother or friend or some other connection the the character that lived.
It also introduces an element of gambling, waying the risk of additional terms of service to get more perks.
I get that it's not for everyone, but... as with the general lack of XP/mechanical improvement... it sets Traveller apart.
There are plenty of games that don't do those things for people that don't like them.
That being said, if only Classic Traveller had had an optional system for points-buy chargen, I wouldn't have had to listen to people complain about it for all these years.
For me, I just love the universe. It's essentially EVE online.
@@Classic_DM I never took to the OTU. Different tastes.
My fav sci-fi rpg, great overview. New sub.
For folks interested in The Traveller Book, a print-on-demand hardcover can be purchased from DriveThru RPG and it's not that expensive, honestly. Definitely buy the CD, but I also bought the hardcover because I'm old-school and I like to have something in my hands.
Great tip. I did both hardback and softcover POD of the AD&D book and the quality was superb.
Really good informative vid on a great game that has always deserved more attention.
While early D&D seems to benefit from its "generic" nature combining influences from a number of sources, I think Traveller may have been hurt by its foundation in generic science fiction...or put another way, the run-a-way popularity of SW just at the time of Traveller's release meant a lot of folks seeking to play SW may not have found what they were looking for in this otherwise excellent game.
It's always seemed a bit of an anomaly that D&D, while being based on a niche sub-genre of science fiction, gained more popularity than Traveller or any other game which draws upon science fiction for its inspiration. Is there something about fantasy fans that predispose us for jumping into ttrpg?
D&D put effort into marketing themselves not only to children but also as synonymous with ttrpg. And it worked! Kids grew up with a D&D cartoon complete with a dungeon master and all those kids became D&D-style dungeon masters for the generation after that. Traveller never stood a chance _in the market_ being an adult game for _adults_ who like to play pretend.
Always remember that a Meter (39") is roughly analogous to a Yard (36"). So just think in terms of meters = yards.
I got the traveller book and took some notes on stuff I liked out the Cepheus engine to make the game to my liking.
I'm kind of molding the version I like out of the various iterations of Cepheus - FTL, Light, Light Upgraded, Deluxe and the third-party SF version all handle the fundamental elements a little differently. But I think it's possible to cobble a modern equivalent of the LBB out of them.
After play testing my latest game module I'm building I realized that I hated CT rules regarding being unable to hit combat armor or battle dress with simple slug throwers... So I modified my rules to adapt Megatraveller penetration vs. armor rules and it allows players / characters to at least hit these guys with heavier armor even if its only 1 point of damage. I normalize all of the "task rolls" to the old 8+ system and now weapon damage vs. heavier armor types is more realistic.
I love your solution. I agree 100% "to hit" rolls have nothing to do with mitigation. I have to always remind myself that AD&D and CT come from a wargaming era in the mid 70s where everything was d6 and revolved around tables.
We've been playing so long, have played so many video game systems, that that rudimentary type of simulation actually diminishes the game's play.
Modifications like yours are awesome. I love it.
Around 39:40 you mention meters being an odd uni of measurement for those outside the United States.
Did you mean an odd/difficult unit for those within the US?
I meant for the US which still uses imperials in the civilian sector. Great catch.Thank for catching that!
@@Classic_DM Okay great that’s what I presumed but wanted to double check.
Units of measure are especially strange for us up in Canada it’s a real mix of Imperial and Metric!
Great video series thanks for making it I’m excited to try out Traveller!
@@JamesFirth-v It's such a magical game. I'm actually writing a free intro adventure for it this summer for fun, kind of like the Indigo Oasis one I did for Pathfinder Second Edition.
www.telliotcannon.com/shop
Loved the video. Thanks for creating this… looking forward to watch the rest of your videos. What is your take on the Cepheus SRD vs Traveler classic?
Thanks for the kind words! I never played the Cepheus SRD although I have a copy. Mongoose Traveller is a great modernization without going the lame d20 route imo. However, their books are pricey as are their *.PDFs!
When I get the Traveller bug, I use my CT Landscape Books from 2000 for story/sectors/skill etc. and modify combat so my blood thirsty mercenary players don't die in one hit with the rules I have for Decimation WW 2.
Another mod to armour vs dmg could be a threshold type system, where margin of success/failure changes damage done. so you would have the target of 11, and your roll an 8, you'd have a margin of -3 (8 armor pen roll - 11 effective armor value = -3 margin of failure)
So if you get a hit and roll the armor pen, a margin of
-7 to -5 is like d2 dmg,
-4 to -3; 1d6 dmg,
-2 to 0: 2d6 dmg,
0+ (ie you met or exceeded the the armor value with pen roll) : 3d6 (or whatever full weapon damage is).
You could just make a table with standardized damages per armor pen roll based on weapons as well to make it a bit more consistent. The game already has the crunch, may as well lean into it fully.
Getting shot even in full plate sucks, it's just not usually fatal.
Very cool ideas!
I love Twilight2000's system for damage and penetration. Every weapon rolls multiple dice for Damage and has a Penetration (PEN) by range band that was rated from 1/2 to 1,2,3,4 OR NIL (meaning no penetration of any armor). Lower is better with PEN. ARMOR (ARM) was rated from 1/2 to 1,2,3,4,5 etc... with higher being better. Upon a hit, ARM is multiplied by PEN to determine the number of Damage dice that pierce the armor. So an Assault Rifle with Dam 3, PEN 2, hits a helmet (ARM 1). 2×1=2 so 2 is subtracted from the 3 DAM giving you 1 die of Damage. A battle rifle doing 4 DAM with PEN 2 would do 2 dice of Damage after penetrating that helmet.
I remember that going to Staten Island for that convention!
Wow! That's awesome. I was still a teenager. Hopefully you have all your LBB!
Thanks, Classic_DM! I was hoping you would go through and explain how damage is dealt. It's a bit confusing in the LBBs. Thanks again.
Ah, please disregard! You have a whole other video on it.
lost in the waffle and more waffle. oh and more waffle.
All feedback is appreciated. :)