Been there, done that. So recognisable for most when they shot large format the first time. So much you can forget or do wrong, not just how to load the sheets in the film holder. Nice and funny that you kept the footage in the video. :)
I'm new to 4x5 too, but I've been lucky and careful with my loading thus far. A tip for people getting into large format and loading sheets into holders for the first time: I use my left hand's thumb and index finger to find the beginning of the rails that hold the sheet. The ends are kinda sharp, so they're easy to find in the dark. Then, with my right hand, I slide the sheet in with my fingers almost like guides. After fully seated, I do a final check by very lightly tugging up on the sheet to make sure it's in there properly.
Top tip, store your film in a refrigerator prior to loading, it not only helps prolong its shelf life but it also makes it slightly easier to load into the slide holder. 👍
Also, there should be a rule in TH-cam that photographers should show their mistakes. It's very reassuring to see them. It's also very educational. Well done! It's not all about setting up in a field and producing perfect images straight off the bat.
Because of you being so honest and also your tone of voice so calm and your video very interesting I subscribe to watch more even if my English is quite bad ☺️☺️☺️
This video is the perfect antidote to any potential wannabe large format cowboy like myself! Haha. Thanks for posting this and allowing us to experience the trials and tribulations. Much respect.
It's so nice when the person being photographed is patient, especially strangers. It helps that people are usually interested in this huge, weird camera. You're a natural, though. Your large format photos really bring out what sets this format apart (and makes it the BEST!). Do you ever second-guess yourself about cameras you ditched for another? Not the 645 for the 4x5, that was no doubt a good idea. I sold an RB 67 with a 50mm lens and a 90mm and got a Fuji rangefinder. It's so much lighter, I really like rangefinders, and the glass is pristine, but I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't have grumbled so much about the weight of that otherwise fantastic, capable camera. Just the sound of the huge shutter flapping was gratifying. Like, yay, a picture has been made! (Hopefully).
It's all good man, that'll be me when I get my 4x5 tomorrow ! It's normal when you haven't worked this way before. You just have to slow down until it becomes more methodical because of so much practice ! But its seems like the most fun of all photography to me, and the most difficult ! And also the best images ever ! I cant wait to get mine. I've been shooting medium format of many different cameras for many years and 4x5 is very similar, but slower ! Keep it up Bryan. You're doing great. Larry
great lesson in what goes on, even for those new to LF. one thing to help, put the darkslide part way in when you load the holders (lets you know immediately if you put the film in the wrong slot{and stops you loading in the wrong end of the holder!!}), also place your index finger and thumb on the track start, so you are sure it is guided correctly, then, pull the film edge upwards, if it stays put, the film is loaded correctly. most of these, since done in a changing bag/darkroom keep the film safe, and your sanity while shooting, but NOTHING works better than a box of expired/exposed film to practice loading the holders/ camera shooting drill while learning, then you can ALWAYS open the holder and check, not wasting the good stuff (save that for later on!).
Your video made me laugh. I graduated from university in 2021. As part of my of my degree plan I took a photography concentration worth 15 credit hours. I absolutely loved it and I remember shooting large format. The only difference is we shot on the actual paper instead of film. I'm assuming it was to save money. Thanks for the the reminder!
I shot my Hasselblad today for the first time in months. A camera I love and used to shoot everyday. I was a little disappointed today when shooting it. My 4x5 has really become my favorite camera. I really enjoy that whole process of setting the 4x5 up and shooting.
Always feel for the sharp edge of the rails the film is supposed to slip under. On both sides. And, as one commenter suggested, bring a changing bag for those moments when the dark slide misbehaves. And, as another suggested, leave a little bit of the slide inside the holder when making your exposure.
one other hint for emergencies, put the whole camera in a dark bag, or changing tent!! unload it there, you can still SAVE the shot, as long as the camera shutter is closed, and the holder has not been disturbed in the grafflok/spring back, take the holder out in the tent, re-fit the film & darkslide, then remove the whole assembly again, FEW, ALL's SAFE again.; and you didn't waste the shot, this works even with the darkslide removed, just install it in the holder under a changing bag/tent and all is right again. (unfortunately this is only for normal/plate film holders; the 545 and 505 instant film or the quickload/ ready load films are ruined, no way of rescuing them, as the holder and slide are combined into an envelope design, if the film slips in these, she's goosed :-(( ).
Thank you for this, the issues with large format is thinking it's easy but then things go sideways not to mention the cost factor... Time and Money mostly money... keep doing what your doing and enjoy the ride.
Oh how I remember, as I've made the same mistakes on loading. But it does come and I have had many great days out with my 4x5. I'm now waiting for my Intrepid Black to show up. Have fun with it.
@@BryanBirks not a problem I love watching photography videos, and I really enjoy the people coming and running with film photography. When I got my start in photography there was no digital. Shoot there were no microwaves in anyone's house, so forget computers. Lol have a great day.
when i bought mine i bought a 6x17 roll film holder at the same time. i had 4 rolls of way expired film to practice with before i tried 4x5 sheet film. you did awesome, looking forward to more. once i exposed some sheets i took a negative that wasn't special and practiced loading/unloading till i could do it in my sleep
Thanks! I will definitely be practicing more though it seems like I have it down pretty good. Now I have to practice on loading the mod54 reel with more than two sheets. That’s been tough.
@@BryanBirks after a lot of research i went with the stearman press sp-445. its going well. while still stressful at times my 4x5 is my favorite. picked up a graflex film pack holder to do glass plates at some point
It's encouraging to see young photographers experimenting w film, particularly LF, for so many reasons mentioned in the below comments. Nice work Bryan. Enjoy the journey......
I'm definitely going to have to develop more patience before I jump into large format haha. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with shooting on this camera!
Looks like we've all made the same mistake! Once bitten twice shy, though, and when it happened out of the blue during a shoot, I put all my unexposed plates into the bag and checked them all again before exposing them. One terrible "did I leave the iron plugged in" moment I sometimes got was whether or not I have loaded the sheets with the proper side facing the lens. Now, I always load with the notch to the bottom end of the holder on the left, and after I've loaded all my holders, I open them a bit while in the bag and perform a final check that the notch is where it should be. That feeling of resistance when you're sliding the cover back in is horrible. I use a Sinar, and there's no way for me to get that beast into a bag to rescue a shot. I just have to check everything at loading time. That's the big thing with using these cameras. Routine. Routine, Routine. I still get exposure wrong along with other things, but my routine eliminates those loading errors, or going to the shutter and finding it doesn't respond because you never closed the thing after focusing. I actually have a checklist which I leave in the bellows. Having to take it out at the beginning of a shoot is a physical reminder of the routine and rhythm I need follow.
Welcome to the club so to say. I've been shooting a lot (4-10 exposures per weekend) to get my standardized work down as a single error will ruin an exposure. The #1 error to avoid is forgetting to close the lens after comp/focus. In time you'll upgrade the 4x5 camera yet good to know your lenses will carry over. Enjoyed your images and thanks for sharing. PS You can pull out the dark slide to a fixed position (mark it) to avoid going out and back in.
@@BryanBirks The rule for white unexposed and black exposed for the dark slide will not apply but another marking system is possible. I have trouble inserting the slide if I''m not square to the holder. Yes, start a corner to get in then straight up. PS Two things, I started to cover my film holder as I pull out the DS to avoid light leaks. Plus I hold the film holder as I insert the slide to avoid light leaks ... The list is too long of potential errors but the results... stunning.
@@BryanBirks this is a great one, polaroid and new 55 ; 504 and 545 j holders use these, aka a red/white diagonal line terminating in a thick stripe, this says STOP!, some people even waste a frame, and tie a knot in string, to denote the correct distance to pull out.
I really enjoyed that video, and even with the messing around, it seems pretty obvious that you produced some really nice images. I have had a 4x5 camera laying around, which I haven't really used, and my rekindled interest for it brought me here. Your video just increased my urge to get it up and running. Thanks!
Welcome to the world of 4x5, all part of the process. watch how your time speeds up the more you use it. Also, watch how after using a 4x5 for a while, how different the images will look when you go out and shoot with the Mamiya camera. I have to say from watching this video, your girlfriend is very patient and helpful, I've shot people before with one, and it's very hard for people to stand still that long and helpful. Putting your flaws on display PERFECT! I can't wait to see your progression with this camera.
Yes she is very patient. Haha she helps a lot. I already have two more holders loaded up (correctly) and ready to shoot again. Looking forward to making many more images!
Hi Bryan, I kinda feel bad for you in this video. I have been shooting large format 4X5 Intrepid for more than a year now. I have a series ongoing named Happy Kids. So yeah, I shoot large format portraits in scenery with kids. Not really obvious,.... but yeah. What really helps is to keep being organised, make shure everything you do is well put. Try to 'train' at home as much as you can, with empty cartridges, because mistakes can happen, but with large format analog each mistake costs you money. For me working with large format really made me take a step back and take my time. The kids are not always fan of it :p but I keep them entertained in the meantime. But you need to keep. your focus. Any way, good luck!
@@BryanBirks Cool. I just ordered myself the MK4 Black Edition. Because I still had the one with focussing knobs in front, which is so difficult. So very interested to see how it works with the focussing button on the back. Tonight I'm developing my portra (the series is all on portra) which I shot last weekend in humid conditions. Keep fingers crossed.
Hopefully, you didn't throw out those exposed sheets-- because they're fantastic for practicing. Start by loading outside the bag with eyes open, once you've got that down, try it with eyes closed. Also, set your holders up before you put them in the bag-- dust them out, put the slides the way you want, and then in the bag, don't pull the dark slides all the way out-- in fact, I usually only pull them about 1/3 of the way out. While holding the flap out of the way, slide the film at kind of a steep angle so it curves under the lower rails-- that way you know you're on the right level. Push the film in far enough to get past the two raised squares so it's lying flat. It's all about building a process that works for you, and turning that process into muscle memory.
a little tip from somebody who messed up alot of films like you did. Rack the camera so the groundglass is facing the ground. Then shake it a bit and then try to put the darkslide back in.
Lol thats why I don’t buy the metal film holders. I got the plastic fidelity elite ones. If that does happen, when the dark slide feels rough going back in, try to gently wiggle it back in. If that doesn’t work maybe bring in a dark light proof bag and try to quickly move the onto there. Hopefully the light leak doesn’t affect too much of the image
Hmm Didn’t think about that. Luckily it was all a loading issue and I’ve practiced a lot since yesterday and all my holders are good except the one that broke. It’s in the trash right now.
Bryan Birks can’t wait to see what images you make with the Large Format! I have the Intrepid Mark IV and the Mamiya rz67. Actually going out to shoot with the intrepid right now!
All the love to you bro :)! I can completely relate to these mistakes, the pressure and eventually frustration of making these, especially when also trying to film! But yes, as you have shown us, it does get better with experience. Keep it up!
I'm going to step into LF again soon. at least, as soon as I finish restoring and modifying my old messy crappy filmsy monorail camera I bought off eBay 10 yrs ago for few euros. yes it was, and still is, a poor man monorail. it was as frustrating as it was rewarding. never had issues with loading sheet films but had many many many and many more sheets burned cause I didn't close the shutter after framing and focusing. great to see you had fun.
Monorail definitely looked more intimidating compared to a field camera. I’ve already shot since then and no problems. So very much was user error and inexperience on my part.
You're doing good. Good eye. Think about tilting and shifting from the back of the camera, the rear Standard; remember when you tilt and lift the front standard the lenses image circle moves up and down your film, but when you tilt or swing the back of the camera your film stays in the middle of the circle. God Bless.
Thank you for this, I could see something like that happening to me. This is why I picked up a film back for my Horseman 985, which also had a great price. I can do some of the movements like the Intrepid 4x5 even some back movements I do have a CAMBO 4X5 but you have to plan to take that monster out great pictures but just not your everyday type of camera. Thank you for showing things that happen and what an almost perfect can look like with a 4x5 camera.
Bro... I’ve had the film loading struggles. After the first outing with the same issues, I spent some time actually looking at how the film holders load and getting familiar with how they feel. Nothing like throwing money away to teach you a lesson...
tough learning curve dude !! ... kudos for starting with large format though , when you got it right , it was great , ... I'm might be hot on your heels soon..so am watching your sessions with great interest ... the ektarchrome you developed looked spot on btw...
Thank you for showing a bit of what might happen shooting large format for the first time. I am still in the phase considering giving it a try, but costs are holding me back yet. :D You mention developing E-6 here. Have you done a video yet where you show how you do that? I develop black and white for years and just got a C-41 kit to give a try in the next weeks. E-6 might be the next step then ;)
Brave man to show your mistakes 👍 Good points are your note book and a Relaxed approach both will pay off. When loading your film use a finger nail to check film is in guides and Lift notched end with finger nail making sure it goes down flat this lift Will pop the sheet out if its only in one guide slot. Push and pull out dark slides gently 😅 Best wishes next time 👍
You should marked the double dark slides with with the film you have in it because they are all the same otherwise :) You will get used to putting your dark slides in and out, when you have exposed the film you flick the sheath around when you slide it back in so it is black and you know you have exposed that sheet of film, well done for being honest and for shooting 5x4 as we call it in Scotland.
Great video! Definitely a big help to people starting out in large format. I'll have to see what mistakes I'll make my first time out. Couldn't you leave the dark slide in about half an inch though? I think I've heard people do that to prevent that problem.
Yeah another person said that. I’ll probably do that next time but I just shot one sheet and it worked perfectly. Just a mistake on my part first time out!
Sweet video! I've been looking at these. I have a 500CM 6x6 that I shoot here and there and was looking to get a Pentax 67 to go up to 6x7 film, however being that 6x6 and 6x7 are not that much different I am intrigued to possibly go 4x5 or even 5x7. I think 8x10 would be insanely cool but to travel and lug that gear around vs something smaller like 4x5 or 5x7 would be a lot easier esp flying or hiking to a location. What are your thoughts>
I would only suggest getting a 4x5 setup if you can do everything at home. Process and scanning is going to be expensive if you send it out. The Pentax 6x7 will give you the closest thing to a large format “look”.
Aw man, your struggle was hard to watch! Sorry you missed out on those shots. I dunno if you had a dark bag with you, but might be useful to have one on hand in case it happens again while you’re in the field
Well done getting some fantastic photos on your first time with 4x5 - steep learning curve. I felt for you each time you discovered the film wasn't loaded properly :(
nice video the shots that came out looked great, im thinking about buying a 4x5 setup and I know im gonna make a bunch of the same mistakes. keep it up
Lol the stress and anxiety in the middle of shooting is so real. Really glad you left that all in. Those holders seem kinda clunky though, do you know if there are some that are better than others?
I tested them all out after the fact and tossed one. The other ones were just user error. The Riteway ones I actually enjoy a lot after practicing and the Lisco Regal one is good as well.
Well I guess it happens to everybody .. loading the film on the holders. Happened to me before. Upon loading the film .. feel the metal guide to insert the film properly.. shoudl you be visiting nj/ny hopefully we canshoot together
Man, that was painful to watch. We all made these mistakes but we didn't have a camera documenting it thankfully. Kudos to you for showing all of it. So some observations and tips that may help in the future. 1. When loading sheet film holders before putting the dark slide in after loading the sheet, reach a fingernail under the end of the sheet and give it a little tug upward. If it isn't properly sitting under the side rails you will feel it at that point rather than losing sheets in the field. You will also catch the situation where you have loaded multiple sheets on one side of the holder at this point. When I used to cut down X-Ray film for 4x5 I used to have a lot of these problems with sheets popping out of the rails and it always seemed to be when someone was watching me in the field. 2. Please don't slap the dark slide back into the holder. You'll want to treat these things like you were handling eggs. Some of these holders are more than 50 years old and any damage you may cause will come back to haunt you in the form of light leaks later on. Be sure to clean those holders out in between shoots with a soft brush. 3. Tap the holders before inserting them into the camera. This helps to get them back into a state where the sheet is sitting even again after transporting. Sheets can become uneven in the track sometimes which can cause it to shift in between the time you compose and focus and the time you trip the shutter and that can mean an uneven horizon line or worse. It only takes a second to tap the holder against your palm. 4. The Intrepid has a revolving back so use that to your advantage when encountering resistence in re-inserting the dark slide. Spin that revolving back to landscape orientation so you can actually see what's going on instead of getting up on your toes and trying to peer down from the top. Much easier to spin it so you can see what you are dealing with. 5. Catlabs. You most likely paid too much. Their mark up is often absurd compared to the alternatives but then again they assembled a kit and got you on your way so maybe that's worth it to you. A good place to search for lenses in the future as you grow your kit and skills is the large format section of KEH or Roberts (Used photo pro). I've never received a bum lens from KEH, ever, and the "bargain" rating is often everyone else's "Excellent" rating.
Yes to all of those. Haha and I’ve figured that out since making this video. CATLabs isn’t that bad especially since I was specifically looking for an intrepid and didn’t want to wait 6-8 weeks to get it and there were no other ones on eBay or anywhere.
@@BryanBirks Yes they do try to buy a few Intrepids to keep on US shores and maybe the shorter wait time is worth it. The markups are mostly on the 8x10s and some of the more high-end 4x5s and 5x7s. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that because they may not be the best buy for everyone. Good luck with your LF journey. It's always a challenge.
This is why I stick to medium format and 35mm film, I do not have the patience for large format. I get so angry at myself when I miss a shot on medium format, missing a shot on large format I would take the foetal position and cry .... and throw the large format cam into the garbage
Haha I feel you. But when you do get the shot, and don’t mess up the holder, and don’t mess up the focus, and don’t mess up loading into the tank, and don’t mess up developing it’s a great feeling 😂
Depends I would say. It’s not really about quality for me because I’m not getting these drum scanned or anything. But it is nice to have the biggest frame possible in case I would want to do that. It came down to me shooting less film in general and just wanting the most detail out of some of my shots. That and the ability to have more control with the shot overall.
Is there any chance the problem was with the “cheaper” film holders? You had mentioned they were inexpensive, and the ones I’ve been researching, like on Intrepids site itself has the priced more in the $60 USD range...wondering if it might be one of those” you get what you pay for “ type things? Anyway, I’m looking to getting into LF too in the near future. Keep on shooting!!
Definitely all my fault as I haven’t had any problems since. It was just me not knowing how to use them. Haha I can’t believe some film holders are over $100. Absolutely nutty in my opinion.
100 sheets later and haven’t had this problem again. I take it out every time because I like flipping around to show which is exposed or not. This was a loading problem not a dark slide problem.
This fxckery with loading is kinda a huge turn off... Always wanted to tap into this type of photography, but this hassle... I don't know... So what was with the loading, was the camera anyway faulty??
Loading was 100% my fault and I haven’t made that mistake again. It’s incredibly easy. I just did not practice enough. Definitely don’t let it stray you from large format!
Been there, done that. So recognisable for most when they shot large format the first time. So much you can forget or do wrong, not just how to load the sheets in the film holder. Nice and funny that you kept the footage in the video. :)
Just trying to be real with people. Thanks for watching my pitfalls. Haha
Very enjoyable - I wish more photographers were humble enough to show how they mess up. Helps the rest of us out.
Thanks for watching me mess up. I learn, you learn, everybody learns. 👊🏻
I'm new to 4x5 too, but I've been lucky and careful with my loading thus far. A tip for people getting into large format and loading sheets into holders for the first time:
I use my left hand's thumb and index finger to find the beginning of the rails that hold the sheet. The ends are kinda sharp, so they're easy to find in the dark. Then, with my right hand, I slide the sheet in with my fingers almost like guides. After fully seated, I do a final check by very lightly tugging up on the sheet to make sure it's in there properly.
It is rare to find true honest youtubers. Just found you here and this is one of the most honest vids i have seen. Good job!
Thank you! I pride myself on being transparent and if my fails help someone else than it’s fine with me haha
Glad you shared the whole process, good and bad. I wasted a handful of sheets on my first outing. Haha. 🤣💪
I watched your vid after I shot some and you using the tilt and shift movements cause they’re cool hit close to home 😂
Top tip, store your film in a refrigerator prior to loading, it not only helps prolong its shelf life but it also makes it slightly easier to load into the slide holder. 👍
Expertise can't be accomplished without failure. One great shot wipes away any disappointment.
Also, there should be a rule in TH-cam that photographers should show their mistakes. It's very reassuring to see them. It's also very educational. Well done! It's not all about setting up in a field and producing perfect images straight off the bat.
It's good to see someone share their mistakes, thanks for uploading this vid and hats off to your model, she is very patient.
Because of you being so honest and also your tone of voice so calm and your video very interesting I subscribe to watch more even if my English is quite bad ☺️☺️☺️
Thank you 1000% for posting this video. It takes great character to share your mistakes. I greatly appreciate your honesty.
THANK YOU FOR SHOWING THE FAILS! I have not had the courage yet to load film in the bag. Thanks for the journey. Keep the the work and vids.
Thanks for sharing your experience and your photos!
This video is the perfect antidote to any potential wannabe large format cowboy like myself! Haha. Thanks for posting this and allowing us to experience the trials and tribulations. Much respect.
Thanks for the video. I think we all enjoyed it at your expense. For me, I'll stay with 120 film on 6x7 format.
It's so nice when the person being photographed is patient, especially strangers. It helps that people are usually interested in this huge, weird camera. You're a natural, though. Your large format photos really bring out what sets this format apart (and makes it the BEST!).
Do you ever second-guess yourself about cameras you ditched for another? Not the 645 for the 4x5, that was no doubt a good idea. I sold an RB 67 with a 50mm lens and a 90mm and got a Fuji rangefinder. It's so much lighter, I really like rangefinders, and the glass is pristine, but I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't have grumbled so much about the weight of that otherwise fantastic, capable camera. Just the sound of the huge shutter flapping was gratifying. Like, yay, a picture has been made! (Hopefully).
It's all good man, that'll be me when I get my 4x5 tomorrow ! It's normal when you haven't worked this way before. You just have to slow down until it becomes more methodical because of so much practice ! But its seems like the most fun of all photography to me, and the most difficult ! And also the best images ever !
I cant wait to get mine. I've been shooting medium format of many different cameras for many years and 4x5 is very similar, but slower ! Keep it up Bryan. You're doing great. Larry
Trial & error we all go thru it. Thank you for your honesty & keep up the good work.
For sure. Thanks for watching!
I enjoy your videos. Very down to earth, not all hyped up and not droning on endlessly. Keep up the good work.
Thank you. That’s what I’m going for!
great lesson in what goes on, even for those new to LF. one thing to help, put the darkslide part way in when you load the holders (lets you know immediately if you put the film in the wrong slot{and stops you loading in the wrong end of the holder!!}), also place your index finger and thumb on the track start, so you are sure it is guided correctly, then, pull the film edge upwards, if it stays put, the film is loaded correctly.
most of these, since done in a changing bag/darkroom keep the film safe, and your sanity while shooting, but NOTHING works better than a box of expired/exposed film to practice loading the holders/ camera shooting drill while learning, then you can ALWAYS open the holder and check, not wasting the good stuff (save that for later on!).
Your video made me laugh. I graduated from university in 2021. As part of my of my degree plan I took a photography concentration worth 15 credit hours. I absolutely loved it and I remember shooting large format. The only difference is we shot on the actual paper instead of film. I'm assuming it was to save money. Thanks for the the reminder!
Got my Intrepid 4x5 in the mail yesterday! So EXCITED. Loaded up six film holders today and am going to see what I can find.
Hell yeah! Find anything. Just practice and practice 💪🏻
That horrible moment when you put the dark slide back in, hear a crunch and realise that you didn’t load the film properly😩
I shot my Hasselblad today for the first time in months. A camera I love and used to shoot everyday. I was a little disappointed today when shooting it. My 4x5 has really become my favorite camera. I really enjoy that whole process of setting the 4x5 up and shooting.
Always feel for the sharp edge of the rails the film is supposed to slip under. On both sides. And, as one commenter suggested, bring a changing bag for those moments when the dark slide misbehaves. And, as another suggested, leave a little bit of the slide inside the holder when making your exposure.
Definitely. I’ve already had better experiences with loading since then. I just didn’t practice enough like an idiot!
one other hint for emergencies, put the whole camera in a dark bag, or changing tent!! unload it there, you can still SAVE the shot, as long as the camera shutter is closed, and the holder has not been disturbed in the grafflok/spring back, take the holder out in the tent, re-fit the film & darkslide, then remove the whole assembly again, FEW, ALL's SAFE again.; and you didn't waste the shot, this works even with the darkslide removed, just install it in the holder under a changing bag/tent and all is right again. (unfortunately this is only for normal/plate film holders; the 545 and 505 instant film or the quickload/ ready load films are ruined, no way of rescuing them, as the holder and slide are combined into an envelope design, if the film slips in these, she's goosed :-(( ).
Thank you for this, the issues with large format is thinking it's easy but then things go sideways not to mention the cost factor... Time and Money mostly money... keep doing what your doing and enjoy the ride.
Bryan, loved your video, loved your honesty. (fellow Intrepid 4x5 newbie).
Oh how I remember, as I've made the same mistakes on loading. But it does come and I have had many great days out with my 4x5. I'm now waiting for my Intrepid Black to show up. Have fun with it.
Intrepid Black is so sexy. Jealous of that. I am doing much better since this video. Haha thanks for watching.
@@BryanBirks not a problem I love watching photography videos, and I really enjoy the people coming and running with film photography. When I got my start in photography there was no digital. Shoot there were no microwaves in anyone's house, so forget computers. Lol have a great day.
Its allways nice to see someone taking first steps with LF. And of course doing same mistakes.
when i bought mine i bought a 6x17 roll film holder at the same time. i had 4 rolls of way expired film to practice with before i tried 4x5 sheet film. you did awesome, looking forward to more. once i exposed some sheets i took a negative that wasn't special and practiced loading/unloading till i could do it in my sleep
Thanks! I will definitely be practicing more though it seems like I have it down pretty good. Now I have to practice on loading the mod54 reel with more than two sheets. That’s been tough.
@@BryanBirks after a lot of research i went with the stearman press sp-445. its going well. while still stressful at times my 4x5 is my favorite. picked up a graflex film pack holder to do glass plates at some point
It's encouraging to see young photographers experimenting w film, particularly LF, for so many reasons mentioned in the below comments. Nice work Bryan. Enjoy the journey......
I'm definitely going to have to develop more patience before I jump into large format haha. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with shooting on this camera!
Yes. Incredibly patient and it humbles you quick. Haha
Looks like we've all made the same mistake! Once bitten twice shy, though, and when it happened out of the blue during a shoot, I put all my unexposed plates into the bag and checked them all again before exposing them. One terrible "did I leave the iron plugged in" moment I sometimes got was whether or not I have loaded the sheets with the proper side facing the lens. Now, I always load with the notch to the bottom end of the holder on the left, and after I've loaded all my holders, I open them a bit while in the bag and perform a final check that the notch is where it should be.
That feeling of resistance when you're sliding the cover back in is horrible. I use a Sinar, and there's no way for me to get that beast into a bag to rescue a shot. I just have to check everything at loading time.
That's the big thing with using these cameras. Routine. Routine, Routine. I still get exposure wrong along with other things, but my routine eliminates those loading errors, or going to the shutter and finding it doesn't respond because you never closed the thing after focusing. I actually have a checklist which I leave in the bellows. Having to take it out at the beginning of a shoot is a physical reminder of the routine and rhythm I need follow.
Welcome to the club so to say. I've been shooting a lot (4-10 exposures per weekend) to get my standardized work down as a single error will ruin an exposure. The #1 error to avoid is forgetting to close the lens after comp/focus. In time you'll upgrade the 4x5 camera yet good to know your lenses will carry over. Enjoyed your images and thanks for sharing. PS You can pull out the dark slide to a fixed position (mark it) to avoid going out and back in.
Ahhhh didn’t think about the dark slide trick. I’ll have to look into that. Thanks for watching!
@@BryanBirks The rule for white unexposed and black
exposed for the dark slide will not apply but another marking system is possible. I have trouble inserting the slide if I''m not square to the holder. Yes, start a corner to get in then straight up. PS Two things, I started to cover my film holder as I pull out the DS to avoid light leaks. Plus I hold the film holder as I insert the slide to avoid light leaks ... The list is too long of potential errors but the results... stunning.
@@BryanBirks this is a great one, polaroid and new 55 ; 504 and 545 j holders use these, aka a red/white diagonal line terminating in a thick stripe, this says STOP!, some people even waste a frame, and tie a knot in string, to denote the correct distance to pull out.
I really enjoyed that video, and even with the messing around, it seems pretty obvious that you produced some really nice images. I have had a 4x5 camera laying around, which I haven't really used, and my rekindled interest for it brought me here. Your video just increased my urge to get it up and running. Thanks!
Loading sheet film in the dark can be quite the challenge!
Yes! Luckily I haven’t messed up since then. Lol
Welcome to the world of 4x5, all part of the process. watch how your time speeds up the more you use it. Also, watch how after using a 4x5 for a while, how different the images will look when you go out and shoot with the Mamiya camera. I have to say from watching this video, your girlfriend is very patient and helpful, I've shot people before with one, and it's very hard for people to stand still that long and helpful. Putting your flaws on display PERFECT! I can't wait to see your progression with this camera.
Yes she is very patient. Haha she helps a lot. I already have two more holders loaded up (correctly) and ready to shoot again. Looking forward to making many more images!
Hi Bryan, I kinda feel bad for you in this video.
I have been shooting large format 4X5 Intrepid for more than a year now. I have a series ongoing named Happy Kids. So yeah, I shoot large format portraits in scenery with kids. Not really obvious,.... but yeah.
What really helps is to keep being organised, make shure everything you do is well put. Try to 'train' at home as much as you can, with empty cartridges, because mistakes can happen, but with large format analog each mistake costs you money.
For me working with large format really made me take a step back and take my time. The kids are not always fan of it :p but I keep them entertained in the meantime. But you need to keep. your focus.
Any way, good luck!
It’s been going much better since ruining all this film. Haven’t had any hiccups since. Thanks for the comment!
@@BryanBirks Cool. I just ordered myself the MK4 Black Edition. Because I still had the one with focussing knobs in front, which is so difficult. So very interested to see how it works with the focussing button on the back.
Tonight I'm developing my portra (the series is all on portra) which I shot last weekend in humid conditions.
Keep fingers crossed.
Hopefully, you didn't throw out those exposed sheets-- because they're fantastic for practicing. Start by loading outside the bag with eyes open, once you've got that down, try it with eyes closed. Also, set your holders up before you put them in the bag-- dust them out, put the slides the way you want, and then in the bag, don't pull the dark slides all the way out-- in fact, I usually only pull them about 1/3 of the way out. While holding the flap out of the way, slide the film at kind of a steep angle so it curves under the lower rails-- that way you know you're on the right level. Push the film in far enough to get past the two raised squares so it's lying flat.
It's all about building a process that works for you, and turning that process into muscle memory.
Definitely didn’t throw them out. Thanks for the tips! I’m already better since this. Lots of practice so far.
a little tip from somebody who messed up alot of films like you did. Rack the camera so the groundglass is facing the ground. Then shake it a bit and then try to put the darkslide back in.
Lol thats why I don’t buy the metal film holders. I got the plastic fidelity elite ones. If that does happen, when the dark slide feels rough going back in, try to gently wiggle it back in. If that doesn’t work maybe bring in a dark light proof bag and try to quickly move the onto there. Hopefully the light leak doesn’t affect too much of the image
Hmm Didn’t think about that. Luckily it was all a loading issue and I’ve practiced a lot since yesterday and all my holders are good except the one that broke. It’s in the trash right now.
Bryan Birks can’t wait to see what images you make with the Large Format! I have the Intrepid Mark IV and the Mamiya rz67. Actually going out to shoot with the intrepid right now!
All the love to you bro :)! I can completely relate to these mistakes, the pressure and eventually frustration of making these, especially when also trying to film! But yes, as you have shown us, it does get better with experience. Keep it up!
It certainly gets better. Haha thank you!
I can totally relate with the fuck ups bro! Definitely been there. Good news is the more you shoot, the easier/faster you'll be.
I'm going to step into LF again soon. at least, as soon as I finish restoring and modifying my old messy crappy filmsy monorail camera I bought off eBay 10 yrs ago for few euros. yes it was, and still is, a poor man monorail. it was as frustrating as it was rewarding. never had issues with loading sheet films but had many many many and many more sheets burned cause I didn't close the shutter after framing and focusing. great to see you had fun.
Monorail definitely looked more intimidating compared to a field camera. I’ve already shot since then and no problems. So very much was user error and inexperience on my part.
Went through the same process haha. This was quite nostalgic. I was smiling through!
Happy to help. Haha
You're doing good. Good eye. Think about tilting and shifting from the back of the camera, the rear Standard; remember when you tilt and lift the front standard the lenses image circle moves up and down your film, but when you tilt or swing the back of the camera your film stays in the middle of the circle. God Bless.
Nice. I’ll test that out next time!
Thank you for this, I could see something like that happening to me. This is why I picked up a film back for my Horseman 985, which also had a great price. I can do some of the movements like the Intrepid 4x5 even some back movements I do have a CAMBO 4X5 but you have to plan to take that monster out great pictures but just not your everyday type of camera. Thank you for showing things that happen and what an almost perfect can look like with a 4x5 camera.
Welcome to club. Might be worth trying some Toyo slides, a bit more expensive but worth it I think.
Bro... I’ve had the film loading struggles. After the first outing with the same issues, I spent some time actually looking at how the film holders load and getting familiar with how they feel. Nothing like throwing money away to teach you a lesson...
tough learning curve dude !! ... kudos for starting with large format though , when you got it right , it was great , ... I'm might be hot on your heels soon..so am watching your sessions with great interest ... the ektarchrome you developed looked spot on btw...
Thanks! The Ektachrome was amazing to see. Truly special.
Thank you for showing a bit of what might happen shooting large format for the first time. I am still in the phase considering giving it a try, but costs are holding me back yet. :D
You mention developing E-6 here. Have you done a video yet where you show how you do that? I develop black and white for years and just got a C-41 kit to give a try in the next weeks. E-6 might be the next step then ;)
Brave man to show your mistakes 👍
Good points are your note book and a Relaxed approach both will pay off.
When loading your film use a finger nail to check film is in guides and
Lift notched end with finger nail making sure it goes down flat this lift
Will pop the sheet out if its only in one guide slot.
Push and pull out dark slides gently 😅
Best wishes next time 👍
It's a really interesting process to watch to. It's a shame those frames got lost! I would love to see more of this! Cheers man!
Definitely going to make more!
You should marked the double dark slides with with the film you have in it because they are all the same otherwise :)
You will get used to putting your dark slides in and out, when you have exposed the film you flick the sheath around when you slide it back in so it is black and you know you have exposed that sheet of film, well done for being honest and for shooting 5x4 as we call it in Scotland.
Admire you for posting this video - I would have deleted it ;)
Hope you've mastered loading the film by now.
I have mastered it! Haha actually haven’t messed up since this video. I’m mildly annoyed this is one of my most popular videos tho 😂
Great video! Definitely a big help to people starting out in large format. I'll have to see what mistakes I'll make my first time out. Couldn't you leave the dark slide in about half an inch though? I think I've heard people do that to prevent that problem.
Yeah another person said that. I’ll probably do that next time but I just shot one sheet and it worked perfectly. Just a mistake on my part first time out!
Sweet video! I've been looking at these. I have a 500CM 6x6 that I shoot here and there and was looking to get a Pentax 67 to go up to 6x7 film, however being that 6x6 and 6x7 are not that much different I am intrigued to possibly go 4x5 or even 5x7. I think 8x10 would be insanely cool but to travel and lug that gear around vs something smaller like 4x5 or 5x7 would be a lot easier esp flying or hiking to a location. What are your thoughts>
I would only suggest getting a 4x5 setup if you can do everything at home. Process and scanning is going to be expensive if you send it out.
The Pentax 6x7 will give you the closest thing to a large format “look”.
Aw man, your struggle was hard to watch! Sorry you missed out on those shots. I dunno if you had a dark bag with you, but might be useful to have one on hand in case it happens again while you’re in the field
It definitely sucked but I learned a lot from those mistakes. Haven’t made any more since then thankfully! haha
Well done getting some fantastic photos on your first time with 4x5 - steep learning curve. I felt for you each time you discovered the film wasn't loaded properly :(
Thank you! Oh that was tough! But I haven't made that mistake again so I guess I learned. haha
nice video the shots that came out looked great, im thinking about buying a 4x5 setup and I know im gonna make a bunch of the same mistakes. keep it up
Just load well and take your time! That’s really the only mistake I made.
Still shooting manual 35mm cameras from 1940. Not sure if I can shoot this large camera.
Lol the stress and anxiety in the middle of shooting is so real. Really glad you left that all in. Those holders seem kinda clunky though, do you know if there are some that are better than others?
I tested them all out after the fact and tossed one. The other ones were just user error. The Riteway ones I actually enjoy a lot after practicing and the Lisco Regal one is good as well.
Well I guess it happens to everybody .. loading the film on the holders. Happened to me before. Upon loading the film .. feel the metal guide to insert the film properly.. shoudl you be visiting nj/ny hopefully we canshoot together
Hey Bryan - great video! I was curious if you use the zone system at all for your exposure calc.
I’ve heard of it and thought about using it for night photos but have never used it for any shots!
Так теперь я понял как у меня будет когда куплю форматную камеру. ))
Удачных кадров!!!
dude that sriracha shirt is so awesome. my secret highlight of the video. ;)
don’t you love it when the film jams the dark slide 🙄at least now you have a lot of blank sheets you can use to practice in the light lol.
Hahaha oh I have PLENTY
How did the film jam?
Loaded it wrong and wasn’t in the grooves of the holder. So it fell out.
Man, that was painful to watch. We all made these mistakes but we didn't have a camera documenting it thankfully. Kudos to you for showing all of it. So some observations and tips that may help in the future.
1. When loading sheet film holders before putting the dark slide in after loading the sheet, reach a fingernail under the end of the sheet and give it a little tug upward. If it isn't properly sitting under the side rails you will feel it at that point rather than losing sheets in the field. You will also catch the situation where you have loaded multiple sheets on one side of the holder at this point. When I used to cut down X-Ray film for 4x5 I used to have a lot of these problems with sheets popping out of the rails and it always seemed to be when someone was watching me in the field.
2. Please don't slap the dark slide back into the holder. You'll want to treat these things like you were handling eggs. Some of these holders are more than 50 years old and any damage you may cause will come back to haunt you in the form of light leaks later on. Be sure to clean those holders out in between shoots with a soft brush.
3. Tap the holders before inserting them into the camera. This helps to get them back into a state where the sheet is sitting even again after transporting. Sheets can become uneven in the track sometimes which can cause it to shift in between the time you compose and focus and the time you trip the shutter and that can mean an uneven horizon line or worse. It only takes a second to tap the holder against your palm.
4. The Intrepid has a revolving back so use that to your advantage when encountering resistence in re-inserting the dark slide. Spin that revolving back to landscape orientation so you can actually see what's going on instead of getting up on your toes and trying to peer down from the top. Much easier to spin it so you can see what you are dealing with.
5. Catlabs. You most likely paid too much. Their mark up is often absurd compared to the alternatives but then again they assembled a kit and got you on your way so maybe that's worth it to you. A good place to search for lenses in the future as you grow your kit and skills is the large format section of KEH or Roberts (Used photo pro). I've never received a bum lens from KEH, ever, and the "bargain" rating is often everyone else's "Excellent" rating.
Yes to all of those. Haha and I’ve figured that out since making this video.
CATLabs isn’t that bad especially since I was specifically looking for an intrepid and didn’t want to wait 6-8 weeks to get it and there were no other ones on eBay or anywhere.
@@BryanBirks Yes they do try to buy a few Intrepids to keep on US shores and maybe the shorter wait time is worth it. The markups are mostly on the 8x10s and some of the more high-end 4x5s and 5x7s. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that because they may not be the best buy for everyone. Good luck with your LF journey. It's always a challenge.
muy bueno y honesto ¡¡¡
This is why I stick to medium format and 35mm film, I do not have the patience for large format. I get so angry at myself when I miss a shot on medium format, missing a shot on large format I would take the foetal position and cry .... and throw the large format cam into the garbage
Haha I feel you. But when you do get the shot, and don’t mess up the holder, and don’t mess up the focus, and don’t mess up loading into the tank, and don’t mess up developing it’s a great feeling 😂
I have an intrepid and I bought a bunch of film holders on eBay.. I’m lucky I’ve never had the black slide issue.
Yeah that’s mostly just me being a dumb idiot. They’re fine now that I know how to load them correctly!
Question: is the quality upgrade of 4x5 significant enough to warrant the extra work over something like the rz?
Depends I would say. It’s not really about quality for me because I’m not getting these drum scanned or anything. But it is nice to have the biggest frame possible in case I would want to do that. It came down to me shooting less film in general and just wanting the most detail out of some of my shots. That and the ability to have more control with the shot overall.
Oh the joys of large format... Still good show though, cheers!
Is there any chance the problem was with the “cheaper” film holders? You had mentioned they were inexpensive, and the ones I’ve been researching, like on Intrepids site itself has the priced more in the $60 USD range...wondering if it might be one of those” you get what you pay for “ type things? Anyway, I’m looking to getting into LF too in the near future. Keep on shooting!!
Definitely all my fault as I haven’t had any problems since. It was just me not knowing how to use them. Haha I can’t believe some film holders are over $100. Absolutely nutty in my opinion.
@@BryanBirks OH cool. Well, keep shooting. I plan in the near future to try my hand at 4x5 shooting too, likely with an Intrepid view camera.
I feel the pain 😨 I left a negative outside the box when I turned the lights on after loading the film.
We've all been there with misloading film holders!
It was a lovely time! Haha haven’t messed up since!
haha love this, Vietnamese T-shirt
Imagine back when a photographer had to load film like this to take a photo of a family with small kids😩😄
A little sedative problem helped. lmao
This is why you dont take the slide completely out. Over time you will learn how far the slide needs to slide out while not removing it.
100 sheets later and haven’t had this problem again. I take it out every time because I like flipping around to show which is exposed or not. This was a loading problem not a dark slide problem.
Normal lens for a 4x5 is 152mm. Normal for a 35mm is 43mm
Where can i start, if i want to get into large format?
Watch Nick Carver and not me. haha
A spectacular failure is better then dreams in the drawer.
Don’t let your dreams be dreams.
I really felt your pain then
This fxckery with loading is kinda a huge turn off... Always wanted to tap into this type of photography, but this hassle... I don't know... So what was with the loading, was the camera anyway faulty??
Loading was 100% my fault and I haven’t made that mistake again. It’s incredibly easy. I just did not practice enough. Definitely don’t let it stray you from large format!
I think we pretty much figured out you weren’t loading the film properly you need to practice
Yeah for sure!
dang, still no cats :(
these shots would have been interesting sadly you "fucked" up still great video
YOU ARE ON POINT WITH LOOKING FOR CATS. NEXT VIDEO I SWEAR