I try to know as much as possible about ergative verbs in Kurdish languages so happened to find your video which helps me to get a better understanding of ergativ verbs evev in kurdish languages. Thank you so much🌹
As for random-idea-english: impressive website. I wish I had a personal day for every 24 hours to concentrate on polishing up and studying all possível areas of this awsome language I am in love with since I was a child.
Thank you Mr. Skypelessons for this package I think there is bit confusion on the Ergative verb!Have a look on these sentences* Dave closed the shop< shop is an object,closed is an active voice(past tense),Dave is a subject(doer of action)= Transitive[ subject+verb+ object]/second sentence ^ The shop closed* the shop is a subject but it doesn't perform any action means it is passive the shop receives an action of being closed by someone(Dave), according some sentence patern here the verb *closed* is participle used as postmodifier for the noun#shop# functions as subject in the second sentence and object in the first sentence=Ergative verb( the object becomes a subject)= the verbal *closed* functioning as participle giving information on the shop here the shop has received an action of closure there is no object= intransitive verb[ transitive+intransitive verb= ambitransitive
I answer all questions within 24 hours when you buy a course. I hate TH-cam with the same passion that I hate Covid Clowns or politicians or journalists
MrSkypelessons it seems that paired ergative verbs have a counterpart transitive verb in the passive voice while the unpaired dont this is what i have in the paper infront of me but it still ambiguous thats why i asked if there some exemples to make the vision clear any way a really good tutorial keep going
Mr.Nicholls, I got it. Your explanation crystal clear as always. What I find troublesome is to have the presence of spirit and mind to quit the structure: Subject + was/were + P.P + by + noun (by the way, a clumsy way of speaking as you headlined), which I was taught for decades on... and to let the idea, the concept, a much simplier structure, as in, "the price increased trumps over "the price was increased by the government". Tough mission for someone like me whose first language is Brazilian Portuguese. But, anyway, I enjoyed every single second of this video: ergative verb. Congrats!
+Wagner Otto Please remember that it all depends on whether you want to emphasize that the VERB happened due to an agent (someone is responsible for the increase) or whether you want to emphasize that it 'just happened' (perhaps due to a chain of cause and effect. No-one is responsible. There is no agent). The price of oil increased. (This sounds like the market value of oil went up due to no agent. i.e no-one was RESPONSIBLE) The price of oil was increased by the government (Here it sounds like some agent was responsible for the price increase.) But both are correct grammatically. So, you shouldn't 'quit the structure'. Only use it when there is an agent involved. But remeber you could say (instead of the second one above) 'The government increased the price of oil'
What do you call verbs that "omit" the means (instrument) of doing something? eg. I flew to London (omission: via plane) We drove across the United States (omission: by car) Or sentences such as "I'm going to cut my hair", when in fact someone else is going to do that for them.
Hi, Good point you've drawn our attention to this topic. I, for one, always tried to avoid phrases like "The game finished". Instead I used "The game ended". Now it's clear that "The game finished" is quite all right (though I suppose "to end" is also an ergative verb, so I tried in vain). But how can one be sure if the verb is ergative or not? I don't seem to remember such tags in the dictionaries...
Hello! Thank you for the lesson! But I'm still a little bit confused about when to use active and passive. Is word "transform" an ergative verb? Here are some sentences in which I need help: Through the long time, the Common Agricultural Policy has transformed/ has been transformed into complex system of income support. Thus, the EU has transformed/ has been transformed from importer of agricultural goods into exporter.
+Denis Vorona It all depends on whether you want to emphasize that the transformation happened due to an agent (E.g the E.U or E.U bureaucrats are responsible) or whether you want to emphasize that it 'just happened' (perhaps due to a chain of cause and effect. No-one is responsible. There is no agent). The price of oil decreased by 50% (This sounds like the market value of oil halved due to no agent. i.e no-one was RESPONSIBLE) The price of oil was decreased by 50% (Here it sounds like some agent was responsible for the price decrease. Perhaps it was some sort of new economic policy) But both are correct grammatically. The website I linked to rightly points out that children, not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, very often use ergative verbs (The vase broke. The glass smashed. etc...).
+MrSkypelessons Thank you very much. Very clear explanation. There is a very useful chapter on ergative verbs (Chapter 55) in Collins Cobuild Active English Grammar.
live and learn.Though I am aware of some of ergative verbs, such as move, close, increase, smash and so on, but never of the verbs, concerning cooking. "The meal warmed.The chicken fried.The ribs roasted"（did I get it right that these are possible variants？！）.I'd have considered it to be a mistake. OMG.
I too feel that the 3 examples you have given sound wrong but if you add adverbs(?) they sound correct, like "The meal warmed enough", "The Chicken fried well" etc. I don't know. I am still learning.
Hiya, native English speaker here (fellow Englishman). I'm looking into linguistics which ergativity falls into, A transitive verb is both ergative (to the subject) and accusative (to the object) and that there intransitive versions were unaccusative (ergative) and unergative (accusative) or am I mistaken somewhere?
Hi what about ' all rights reserved' Is the verb 'reserve ' an ergative verb? and if not, why don't we say 'all rights are reserved? Because they are reserved by somebody. What I understand is that ergative verbs are used in general statements.aren' they?.
Break is an ergative verb. I'll prove it to you.... I broke the vase (active, transitive) The vase broke (active, intransitive) The vase is broken (passive) Note how the object of the transitive verb (the vase) can be the subject of the intransitive verb. This is not how ordinary verbs work. We can't say: I kicked the ball. The ball kicked. (WRONG, therefore NOT ergative) The ball was/is kicked (passive)
You have to join my Telegram group if you want to ask questions. I can’t be bothered with Pharma-Tube, which is splitting us all into untermensch and ubermensch. This is pure evil
4:20 We say, "We increased the price of our product." (the price of our product = object) Or we can say, "The price increased." -- Here increase is an ergative verb.
Hello, first of all great thank you for your lessons. I have probably a bit strange question regarding not the lesson but your speech. I noticed you used present perfect in the following sentence: "It might answer some question you have had in the past". I just wanted to clarify when it refers to the past, shouldn't it be just a past sentence? Thank you in advance.
When did I say that? Please watch the present perfect videos for signals words which require past simple or present perfect. 'In the past' is NOT a signal word for any tense.
MrSkypelessons: 1) There are NO ergative verbs at all ! Ergative is a case when the subject is marked different when it has a transitive or intransitive verb! 2) "Understand" is always transitive! Objects have not to be metioned always as an obligation, sometime it's enoguh that it's in the context. 3) A shop can't close by itself! It's closed by a person. "The shop closes means, that the shop (management) closes it's doors. ;-)
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ergative 1.1(In English) denoting verbs which can be used both transitively and intransitively to describe the same action, with the object in the former case being the subject in the latter, as in I boiled the kettle and the kettle boiled. Don't argue with me. Argue with the dictionary.
Sorry, to bother you, but those verbs might be mimicking ergativity, but are not a real ergative. To give you an example how ergativity works, a sentence in kurmanji. ( like Pashto or Basque an Ergativ language) You said, Dave /I closed the shop, is ergativity.... not really precisely correct... let me show you why: داود ديكان گيرت. / من ديكان گيرت. Davod dikan girt. or min dikan girt. The verb girt ( closed) is related to the word dikan (shop) not to Dave ...that’s not the case in your examples . To get a clear idea how ergativity works, watchon TH-cam; Langfocus „ the Kurdish language“ or the „Basque language“ kind regards
Hi, Dave. I'm actually a science student and I'm not particularly good at language (Chinese or English). But, in Chinese, we don't have such confuse. It is a language with high flexibility as it doesn't have some sort of specific rules or something. To me, it has linked to a very very long history of the Chinese - as you say or write something in Chinese, you can trace back of the Classical Chinese. The Classical Chinese is short, concise and meaningful. In some sentences, some verbs can work in both active and passive forms. And it has no trouble for understanding. We can get the message between the lines. We can just sense it. English and Chinese are two very different languages. The grammar or logic of English has sometimes made me feel that it is not only a language but also a science subject which holds the same character of Maths.
+TwTimothy Years ago I taught maths and I remember my boss telling me that maths was a language like any other, as it is a way of representing the world, and communicating this representation to others. While I agree that languages obey only their own unique, internal logic (and as such they are irreducible to other languages) they still all follow a pattern, or a set of logical/mathematical rules. It's certainly true that these rules change slowly over time (at least in our own lifetimes) and so there is always the flexibility to break the rules. But the very fact that patterns exist means that some basic rules are being followed. Without these rules, I imagine language would just be nonsensical.
Chinese will have a system that is as logic or organised as that of English. The difference is that you look at English through lenses of grammar and see it as a complex system. I guess your mothertongue is Chinese and you learned it naturally, growing up, without to have to think about it therefore you perceive it at fluid. A native english speaker trying to learn Chinese will most probably argue with your statement...
+Helena Karlsson I first came across these when I was preparing young kids for the KET exam. The kids asked if it was better to say 'the shop closes at 6pm' or 'the shop is closed at 6pm', and the excellent question sent my brain round in circles. How on earth could the active and passive sentences both be correct, and both have the same meaning??!!?? Ergative verbs is the answer!
4:30 Avoid saying, "The shop was closed by David," or "The weather was changed." the expressions are clumsy, not natural. Instead say, "The shop closed," and "The weather changed."
Thank you very much. I was aware of this, kind of, but never really thought about it. 40 years of studying this language and still learning.
Thanks
Never before have I heard of ergative verbs. Very strange indeed. Thank for sharing your knowledge along with us.
I try to know as much as possible about ergative verbs in Kurdish languages so happened to find your video which helps me to get a better understanding of ergativ verbs evev in kurdish languages.
Thank you so much🌹
Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are the first teacher, who helped me with this theme.
Much thanks.The author of my textbook couldn't seem to get past intellectualism to simply define this term. You gave such a nice, simple explanation.
It is for the first time that I've learnt Ergative verbs. Thank you very much.
As for random-idea-english: impressive website.
I wish I had a personal day for every 24 hours to concentrate on polishing up and studying all possível areas of this awsome language I am in love with since I was a child.
Thank you Mr. Skypelessons for this package I think there is bit confusion on the Ergative verb!Have a look on these sentences* Dave closed the shop< shop is an object,closed is an active voice(past tense),Dave is a subject(doer of action)= Transitive[ subject+verb+ object]/second sentence ^ The shop closed* the shop is a subject but it doesn't perform any action means it is passive the shop receives an action of being closed by someone(Dave), according some sentence patern here the verb *closed* is participle used as postmodifier for the noun#shop# functions as subject in the second sentence and object in the first sentence=Ergative verb( the object becomes a subject)= the verbal *closed* functioning as participle giving information on the shop here the shop has received an action of closure there is no object= intransitive verb[ transitive+intransitive verb= ambitransitive
I answer all questions within 24 hours when you buy a course. I hate TH-cam with the same passion that I hate Covid Clowns or politicians or journalists
Thank you
Could you plz provd som examples on X bar theory or the syntactic diagram?
Extremely hulpful, thanks a lot! Also, love the t-shirt.
Wow! What a complicated language English is!
❤ Thank you
Very nice lesson dear prof. I haven't ever heard it before. My Gosh Ergative verbs in English language. thank you. A
I wanted to know about ergative verbs. Your video is awesome!! I can understand very well. Thank you!!!
Beautiful， Dave，Thank you , very clear
It was simple & informative. Thanks.
thank you dave, the clearest explanation ever!!
We can use (have) as a transitive verb.
Can we use other auxiliary verbs such as (am , is ,are) as a transitive verb.
When you say "The shop closed", does it suggest that it was either closed by itself or by someone?
He says that just for avoid agent who close the shop.
It can mean both.
what about paired and unpaired ergative verbs can you please explain those
No. I have no idea what you're talking about.
MrSkypelessons it seems that paired ergative verbs have a counterpart transitive verb in the passive voice while the unpaired dont this is what i have in the paper infront of me but it still ambiguous thats why i asked if there some exemples to make the vision clear any way a really good tutorial keep going
There are examples of what you are talking about here
arts-ccr-002.bham.ac.uk/ccr/patgram/ch07.html
thanks MrSkypelessons
Very helpful for my linguistics final, thank you !
Can anyone answer me what is use of errgative verbs.
Mr.Nicholls, I got it. Your explanation crystal clear as always. What I find troublesome is to have the presence of spirit and mind to quit the structure: Subject + was/were + P.P + by + noun (by the way, a clumsy way of speaking as you headlined), which I was taught for decades on... and to let the idea, the concept, a much simplier structure, as in, "the price increased trumps over "the price was increased by the government". Tough mission for someone like me whose first language is Brazilian Portuguese.
But, anyway, I enjoyed every single second of this video: ergative verb.
Congrats!
+Wagner Otto Please remember that it all depends on whether you want to emphasize that the VERB happened due to an agent (someone is responsible for the increase) or whether you want to emphasize that it 'just happened' (perhaps due to a chain of cause and effect. No-one is responsible. There is no agent).
The price of oil increased. (This sounds like the market value of oil went up due to no agent. i.e no-one was RESPONSIBLE)
The price of oil was increased by the government (Here it sounds like some agent was responsible for the price increase.)
But both are correct grammatically. So, you shouldn't 'quit the structure'. Only use it when there is an agent involved. But remeber you could say (instead of the second one above) 'The government increased the price of oil'
Wagner Ott
What do you call verbs that "omit" the means (instrument) of doing something?
eg. I flew to London (omission: via plane)
We drove across the United States (omission: by car)
Or sentences such as "I'm going to cut my hair", when in fact someone else is going to do that for them.
Thank you for taking up your time to answer. It cleared up all my doubts on the subject.
Shop closed means shop closed by itself or shop was closed by peter.
Whatbis use of errgative verbs.
do we say: her first novel published or her first novel was published.
Kind regards.
What will be ergative for
My bicycle was repainted?
Plzz answer
"paint" is not an ergative verb
The bicycle was repainted
Hi, Good point you've drawn our attention to this topic. I, for one, always tried to avoid phrases like "The game finished". Instead I used "The game ended". Now it's clear that "The game finished" is quite all right (though I suppose "to end" is also an ergative verb, so I tried in vain).
But how can one be sure if the verb is ergative or not? I don't seem to remember such tags in the dictionaries...
You're right! So, here's a list I found online: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_ergative_verbs
It's as clear as crystal and I find it as easy as pie.
Outstandingly, you are a genius! Good job!
Thank you so much for sharing
Thanks a lot ,your accent so nice
Very useful lesson. Many thanks!
Hello! Thank you for the lesson! But I'm still a little bit confused about when to use active and passive. Is word "transform" an ergative verb? Here are some sentences in which I need help:
Through the long time, the Common Agricultural Policy has transformed/ has been transformed into complex system of income support.
Thus, the EU has transformed/ has been transformed from importer of agricultural goods into exporter.
+Denis Vorona It all depends on whether you want to emphasize that the transformation happened due to an agent (E.g the E.U or E.U bureaucrats are responsible) or whether you want to emphasize that it 'just happened' (perhaps due to a chain of cause and effect. No-one is responsible. There is no agent).
The price of oil decreased by 50% (This sounds like the market value of oil halved due to no agent. i.e no-one was RESPONSIBLE)
The price of oil was decreased by 50% (Here it sounds like some agent was responsible for the price decrease. Perhaps it was some sort of new economic policy)
But both are correct grammatically.
The website I linked to rightly points out that children, not wanting to take responsibility for their actions, very often use ergative verbs (The vase broke. The glass smashed. etc...).
+MrSkypelessons
Thank you very much. Very clear explanation. There is a very useful chapter on ergative verbs (Chapter 55) in Collins Cobuild Active English Grammar.
+MrSkypelessons thank you for the explanation
live and learn.Though I am aware of some of ergative verbs, such as move, close, increase, smash and so on, but never of the verbs, concerning cooking. "The meal warmed.The chicken fried.The ribs roasted"（did I get it right that these are possible variants？！）.I'd have considered it to be a mistake. OMG.
I too feel that the 3 examples you have given sound wrong but if you add adverbs(?) they sound correct, like "The meal warmed enough", "The Chicken fried well" etc. I don't know. I am still learning.
Children often use 'break' in an ergative verb sense so that they can push the blame away from themselves. " The window broke!"
Really good lesson and thank you very much
very helpful thank u
Thank you so much . 🤗🤗🤗🤗
Thank you sir I have been facing with problems with those type verbs, thank you exactly for explanation about those sir
Thanks a lot....
So can we say that "ergative case" equals passive case?
Dave close the shop.
The shop closed = the shop was closed ( by Dave)
teacher could you make another lesson about complex objects .
Hiya, native English speaker here (fellow Englishman).
I'm looking into linguistics which ergativity falls into, A transitive verb is both ergative (to the subject) and accusative (to the object) and that there intransitive versions were unaccusative (ergative) and unergative (accusative) or am I mistaken somewhere?
Very helpful. Thank you!
Hi what about ' all rights reserved'
Is the verb 'reserve ' an ergative verb? and if not, why don't we say 'all rights are reserved? Because they are reserved by somebody.
What I understand is that ergative verbs are used in general statements.aren' they?.
All questions are answered on the course. £9.99 for lifetime membership. www.skype-lessons.com/
The vase is broken. Is it passive or ergative please?
Break is an ergative verb. I'll prove it to you....
I broke the vase (active, transitive)
The vase broke (active, intransitive)
The vase is broken (passive)
Note how the object of the transitive verb (the vase) can be the subject of the intransitive verb. This is not how ordinary verbs work. We can't say:
I kicked the ball.
The ball kicked. (WRONG, therefore NOT ergative)
The ball was/is kicked (passive)
Ok got it, tnxs. The vase is broken - here "broken" is a verb but it's acting like an adjective. Does this have a name? Participle Adjective?
very nice sir
I got it sir, thank you so much.
So is it true to say: "My watch has broken" ?
You have to join my Telegram group if you want to ask questions. I can’t be bothered with Pharma-Tube, which is splitting us all into untermensch and ubermensch. This is pure evil
4:20
We say, "We increased the price of our product." (the price of our product = object)
Or we can say, "The price increased." -- Here increase is an ergative verb.
Thanks you,Dave.
Thanks/thank you
Hello
I wonder if The verb " defeat " ergative or not
Sincerely
No, its not.
Thank you for your support :)
Can I find that kind of information in Dictionaries. if so Which One would you suggest
Is blow and blew an Ergative please?
Blow is ergative
Hello, first of all great thank you for your lessons.
I have probably a bit strange question regarding not the lesson but your speech.
I noticed you used present perfect in the following sentence: "It might answer some question you have had in the past". I just wanted to clarify when it refers to the past, shouldn't it be just a past sentence?
Thank you in advance.
When did I say that?
Please watch the present perfect videos for signals words which require past simple or present perfect. 'In the past' is NOT a signal word for any tense.
Thank you for the answer.
will you make any CAE videos?
Three weeks left before i take it and i feel frightened because of Use of English :[
Thank you a lot!
thanks a lot!
useful
thank you so much, you saved me. :D
nice shirt, comrade!
thank you a lot finally I got it ! :)
I've never heard this before
I think erragative verb will mess up simple past tense
ex: subject + broke(v2)
erragative : object + broke(v2)
MrSkypelessons: 1) There are NO ergative verbs at all ! Ergative is a case when the subject is marked different when it has a transitive or intransitive verb! 2) "Understand" is always transitive! Objects have not to be metioned always as an obligation, sometime it's enoguh that it's in the context. 3) A shop can't close by itself! It's closed by a person. "The shop closes means, that the shop (management) closes it's doors. ;-)
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ergative
1.1(In English) denoting verbs which can be used both transitively and intransitively to describe the same action, with the object in the former case being the subject in the latter, as in I boiled the kettle and the kettle boiled.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the dictionary.
Nice shirt.
Sorry, to bother you, but those verbs might be mimicking ergativity, but are not a real ergative. To give you an example how ergativity works, a sentence in kurmanji. ( like Pashto or Basque an Ergativ language)
You said, Dave /I closed the shop, is ergativity.... not really precisely correct... let me show you why:
داود ديكان گيرت. / من ديكان گيرت.
Davod dikan girt. or min dikan girt. The verb girt ( closed) is related to the word dikan (shop) not to Dave ...that’s not the case in your examples . To get a clear idea how ergativity works, watchon TH-cam; Langfocus „ the Kurdish language“ or the „Basque language“ kind regards
Don’t argue with me. Argue with Oxford, Cambridge, Wikipedia etc....etc...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergative_verb#In_English
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ergative
learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/english-grammar/reflexive-and-ergative-verbs
en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_ergative_verbs
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/ergative
www.adelaide.edu.au/english-for-uni/passive-voice/ergative-verbs.docx
arts-ccr-002.bham.ac.uk/ccr/patgram/ch07.html
Thank you for the lesson! By the way, your T-shirt is really cool (hello from Russia)
+Irene Keene Очень актуально - к 9 мая)) футболка класс=)
Roxana B согласна)
Example: My hat blew off my head
Hi, Dave. I'm actually a science student and I'm not particularly good at language (Chinese or English). But, in Chinese, we don't have such confuse. It is a language with high flexibility as it doesn't have some sort of specific rules or something. To me, it has linked to a very very long history of the Chinese - as you say or write something in Chinese, you can trace back of the Classical Chinese. The Classical Chinese is short, concise and meaningful. In some sentences, some verbs can work in both active and passive forms. And it has no trouble for understanding. We can get the message between the lines. We can just sense it.
English and Chinese are two very different languages.
The grammar or logic of English has sometimes made me feel that it is not only a language but also a science subject which holds the same character of Maths.
+TwTimothy Years ago I taught maths and I remember my boss telling me that maths was a language like any other, as it is a way of representing the world, and communicating this representation to others. While I agree that languages obey only their own unique, internal logic (and as such they are irreducible to other languages) they still all follow a pattern, or a set of logical/mathematical rules. It's certainly true that these rules change slowly over time (at least in our own lifetimes) and so there is always the flexibility to break the rules. But the very fact that patterns exist means that some basic rules are being followed. Without these rules, I imagine language would just be nonsensical.
Chinese will have a system that is as logic or organised as that of English. The difference is that you look at English through lenses of grammar and see it as a complex system. I guess your mothertongue is Chinese and you learned it naturally, growing up, without to have to think about it therefore you perceive it at fluid. A native english speaker trying to learn Chinese will most probably argue with your statement...
You don't have to say, "The ball was moved," say, "The ball moved."
Similarly:
1) The weather changed.
2) The shop closed.
3) The ball moved.
What fresh hell is this? I don't believe there is such a thing as ergative verbs: you are just making this up as you go along, aren't you? ;)
+Helena Karlsson I first came across these when I was preparing young kids for the KET exam. The kids asked if it was better to say 'the shop closes at 6pm' or 'the shop is closed at 6pm', and the excellent question sent my brain round in circles. How on earth could the active and passive sentences both be correct, and both have the same meaning??!!?? Ergative verbs is the answer!
4:01
We can say, "The weather changed."
4:30
Avoid saying, "The shop was closed by David," or "The weather was changed."
the expressions are clumsy, not natural. Instead say, "The shop closed," and "The weather changed."