What about the Tour de France wins of Lance Armstrong? They have been officially removed and often appear with a literal asterisk or another marker to give the additional information.
this one I thought of using as an example. great question though so i’ll answer as best i can still. lance armstrong was stripped of those titles. he did not win them. there is no asterisks next to his name, his name just isn’t there. another good example is the 2013 louisville men’s basketball team, their ncaa title was fully stripped for some pretty bad recruiting violations. again no louisville with an asterisk, just no team at all won the championship. i had a whole part about this that i decided to cut, but the long story short is an asterisk is not the worst thing that can happpen to you in sports. if your sport wants to take away your title or record, they can and will just take it and leave you with nothing. asterisks are for the moments that don’t necessarily need to be taken away altogether, not the worst atrocities in sports, but the ones that just require a little extra context. and they give that context!! thanks for watching.
@@hydn.I think the most interesting case is the case of Bjarne Riis - the winner of the 1996 Tour de France. In 2007 he admitted to having doped throughout his career and was officially stripped of his title by the Tour organisers - and then reinstated as the winner again in 2008, with actual TDF officials claiming Riis was the winner “with an asterisk”. They said they had to keep him as the winner because of the 10-year period of limitation, as they could no longer disqualify him. It must be said that the UCI - the governing body of cycling - always viewed Riis as the winner and at no point stripped him of the title, unlike the organisers of the Tour de France. Still, I think it’s a fascinating case that shouldn’t be forgotten when we talk about asterisks in sports.
@@hydn. I've got a couple problems with this. When talking about the 2017 Astros title, you specifically mention that cheating doesn't even take away the trophy even though there have been several examples, like the ones you listed, of exactly that happening. Additionally, the 2013 Louisville basketball one is a very interesting case, as we know that at least none of the starters or main rotational players for the team were involved with it. We know this because several of these players were involved in a class action suit against the NCAA and settled for getting their own personal stats and awards back. Stripping this title because bench warmers and potential recruits were involved would be like taking away Serbia's olympic bronze because some Serbian who was at the national team tryouts was bribed by fans, but didn't end up playing a single minute of the tournament. Punish the school with fines and scholarship reductions, sure, but taking away the title because some bench players had some strippers called to their rooms is a ridiculous punishment. Oh and if you look online, pretty much everyone agrees that the NCAA got it wrong, including the independent review board that the NCAA hired, and recognizes Louisville as 2013 national champions
Similarly in italian football Juventus were stripped of the 2004-05 Serie A title because of a cheating scandal that saw multiple referees fired and Juve themselves being sent down to Serie B. Look up the Calciopoli scandal.
I agree with a lot of these comments maybe this should have been no asterisks in the big American 4 or a title similar, theres a ton of examples of asterisks in other sports golf, table tennis, etc.
This is more inspired by Bobby Broccoli (who himself was very inspired by Jon Bois, no question, he even cited scorigami in one of his vids). One of the backing tracks here is a regular occurrence in Bobby Broccoli videos. Also a channel that’s worth your time if you’re into Jon Bois’ style. But yeah, Jon’s the GOAT, and his creative vision leaving its mark elsewhere is sick.
@@jerrykurinsky3891I mean all of these essayists take inspiration from each other and bring their own creativity to their work, but Jon Bois is undoubtedly the ground zero for this style of content
If people were saying that there should be an asterisk for Gordie Howe to include WHA points, then Wayne's total should go up another 110 pts for his year in the WHA
The difference between 154 and 162 games might not warrant an asterisk for counting stats, but any rate stat records broken in a severely shortened season (like 2020 MLB's 60 games) probably does warrant an asterisk.
Like the negro leagues that are be counted as MLB now (no problem with that at all) but they played way less games and now own the rate records even though they would not have qualified for the rate stats in MLB.
I also think it's just a bad mindset to have. Changes to sport are bound to happen, so if people are going to put an asterisks on any record after the change in rules or change in number of Games, then every record would have an asterisks next to it.
I have an interesting one for you - Eliud Kipchoge's 1:59:40 marathon. There was a whole event put on just to see if the two hour marathon was breakable, and it proved to be, under those specific conditions at least. It's not listed as a record - this is certainly the correct call, he had 41 pacers and guys on bikes brought water to him throughout - but in the purest sense of the race, he did traverse the 26.2 miles under his own power. Stands to reason then, that whether it's an official world record or not, it's an official time in Kipchoge's career accomplishments. Official world record is 2:00:35 by Kelvin Kiptum (RIP) from Chicago 2023. On Kipchoge's own Wiki page it lists two personal bests for the marathon, a 2:01:09 from Berlin 2022, as well as the 1:59:40 from the closed course Vienna event in 2019. Bonus points if you can guess what symbol appears next to the 1:59:40. Ultimately, in time the 1:59:40 will likely be broken in a standard race rather than a sponsored and closed event, and everything will be combined on the overall leaderboard, but as Kipchoge is 39 now, it's unlikely his own two separate personal bests will ever be joined. If nowhere else (since the 1:59:40 is basically treated as a non-event by sanctioned bodies) on his wiki there will always be an asterisk.
At this point, fuck it and give Kipchoge the official record. He broke it without being artificially pushed forward by any external force (see Justin Gatlin's 9.4 100 meter dash) therefore, why would it not "officially" count???
@@ThatSB do you realise how much training and optimisation has happened to get the record to this point? An extra 30 seconds may as well be an extra hour, because it took a freakishly good athlete, all the modern tech, plus a ton of help that most marathon runners wouldn't normally get Kiptum absolutely would have done it had he not had his life so tragically cut short, but he was a once in a generation talent. With him gone it'll likely take a bit longer until we see sub 2 in a "proper" marathon
Well produced video. Two thoughts. 1) The OG asterisk for Maris was ironically held up as the legit record, in the face of the steroid era video game numbers put up by McGwire, Sosa and Bonds. To the point that now some would say Judge has the record at 62, since he appears to have done it cleanly. Even though 62 is... 11 shy of Bonds and 8 shy of McGwire. 2) I think there are some legitimate asterisks in recordbooks when it comes to Olympic sports. For instance a long jump might be invalidated as wind-assisted, despite it counting in the event itself. There is also the case where equipment rules have changed, such as what swimmers are allowed to wear, which I believe invalidated some records, but not the medals earned? Officially they counted because they were allowed under the rules of the time, but give such an advantage that the records set using them dont count as a benchmark anymore. I'm not totally sure about this, but I think this is the case in some situations, and that would, to me, be a true asterisk (or what the asterisk is thought to mean) type of situation. I think baseball may have something similar here, when we consider records being only "Modern era" records, discounting things from much before Ruth's era. This particularly applies to certain pitching stats. Cy Young's record for most career Wins will simply never be challenged, but the game was so different then that we put an effective asterisk on a lot of them, and consider who is the best "modern" player too. The old records aren't invalid, they're just seen as relics of a different era.
The second point especially is important, the 2012 US 4x100 and Ben Johnson's 9.79 in 1988 both have asterisks for doping, Carl Lewis was briefly a record holder after he broke Bob Beamon's record, only for his jump to be ruled wind assisted, and then having it beaten by Mike Powell later that same day who didn't have wind resistance. Tyson Gay would have held a 100m record if not for a tailwind, that time has an asterisk. It was a good video, the conclusion just needs work, it feels like a reach to say asterisks don't exist in sport.
The real line is pre integration. Prior to Jackie breaking the color line, the exclusion of black players means that the best competition was actively being excluded and so anything pre integration basically gets thrown out and not taken seriously by anyone who knows what they're talking about
EDIT: EVERYTHING IN THIS COMMENT IS WRONG, I WAS TOLD IN CONFIDENCE STUFF THAT WAS WRONG AND BELIEVED THEM roger maris's home run was hit in game 163 not 162, they were tied lead in their division at the end of the season and had to play an extra game as a tie breaker, which is part of why it was so controversial
This is not accurate, the Yankees won the AL by 8 clear games (and there were no "divisions" back then, just the American and National Leagues). They *did* play 163 games, though, because early in the season, a game was called due to rain with the score tied in the 7th inning. Until a few years ago, if a game had reached official length and was called with a tie score, it was called a tie with all statistics counting, and then made up in its entirety later in the season. This was not unusual, and is not why Maris's 61 was controversial.
There's this great folk song, Trudy by Dan Bern. "Man comes in, sees old Barry on the wall, and says there ought to be an asterisk up there. So I painted on the wall with a paintbrush in my hand, an asterisk, but what the hell he's still up there."
Great video 👍 Quick note though, as a Brit and a cricket fan, the asterisk is actually a very important & POSITIVE symbol in this sport. The asterisk is used next to the number of runs scored by a single batsman to denote he was not got out, ( “dismissed” ), during a single innings. In my opinion the two most important asterisks in the game are held by the same guy, Brian Charles Lara. Lara was a phenomenally talented left handed batsman, (batter), from Trinidad who achieved the world record test score of 400 not out, or 400* as it is displayed in the record books, for the West Indies versus England in 2004. He also holds the world record for the highest first class score of 501 not out , or 501*, for Warwickshire vs. Durham in 1994.
Fascinating video. Really well-done. I'm excited to watch more of your stuff and follow your career as a TH-camr, cause I can tell you're going to be very successful.
oh my wow, i thought someone was playing a prank on me when i saw your name. thank you so much, to have someone i've sat up watching for hours see one of my videos is crazy to wrap my head around!!
I respect the bubble ring! Basketball in its purest form. No crowd, no travel, no distractions, just basketball. Wish they had a semi regular tournament like that in the NBA but I know the players wouldn’t go for it
Nowhere is public perception more relevant than in entertainment, and no entertainment is bigger than sports. When Aaron Judge hit 62, people were going crazy about the AL single season home run record, but it was kinda sold as the rightful heir to the MLB record, which only added to its perceived value.
Both this guy and Bobby Broccoli take a lot of influence from Jon Bois, who does videos on sports. So it’d be more accurate to say that Bobby Broccoli applied the Jon Bois style to science lmao.
1974. Our family got a new set of World Book Encyclopedias. I open to the baseball section in the "B" book: MOST HOME RUNS (154 game season) Babe Ruth...60 MOST HOME RUNS(162 game season) Roger Maris...61 MOST STOLEN BASES(154 game season) Ty Cobb...96 MOST STOLEN BASES(162 game season) Maury Wills...104 Those are the two I remember. There may have been more. So, for me, it wasn't an asterisk, but pointing out the season length differences. Even the World Book Encyclopedia short changed Maris (and Wills). Then, quick side note: during the 1974 season, Lou Brock stole 118 bases. Of course, the World Book Encyclopedia for 1974 included history only through 1973.
I have two stories from Polish football/soccer: - Sunday of Miracles, May 1993 - Legia Warsaw, ŁKS Łódź and Lech Poznań were in the title race, and on the last day, Legia led ŁKS on goal difference, Lech being three points (a win) behind them. Legia won their last game 6-0, while ŁKS won theirs 7-1, flaring up corruption suspicions (corruption in sports was not yet made illegal after communist times). Polish FA cancelled the results of both matches and awarded the championship to Lech, but Legia counts it as their title to this day, even explicitly stating that on their club store two weeks ago. - 2006/07 Championship - The champion from this season, Zagłębie Lubin, was found to buy matches two years later and penalised with relegation (individual players were found guilty in criminal court as well), but was not stripped of their title. Two years ago, Zagłębie fans omitted everyone from this season, so one of their two championship teams, while voting on the official all-time team. Really makes the old noggin' joggin'.
Little addendum to Sunday of Miracles, one of Legia's opponents from the last game admitted to being one of the people who sold the 6-0 game back in 2021.
Amazing video! As an Australian I just want to share an (in)famous asterisk story in Australian Rugby League (not AFL but NRL) In the late 2000s, our version of the Patriots, the Melbourne Storm were dominant. Led by a dominant big 3 in Cameron Smith, Billy Slater and Cooper Cronk with an electric young upstart in Greg Inglis, the Storm would progress to their 4th consecutive grand final and beat the Parramatta Eels for their 2nd premiership in 3 years, solidifying themselves as one of the greatest teams in the competition's 100 year history. The next year however, the Storm were found to have been secretly breaching the salary cap for over 5 years. As a result, the NRL would strip their 2007 and 2009 premierships. Furthermore, the Storm were unable to earn any points for the 2010, finishing the year on 0 points despite winning 14 games. While a bit more than an 'asterisk', the Storm are a fascinating contrast to the differing reactions to cheating amongst sporting competitions in America vs here in Australia
The Storm really are the Patriots, I've never thought of them like that but they are the only team in an area where the sport is otherwise unpopular, and definitely do cheat. Pretty funny that Carlton cheated the salary cap a similar amount in the early 2000s but were rubbish the whole time
Yeah it’s a very American-brained take to say that an asterisk appears in zero official record books for any sport. Like good video but come on the world extends beyond the US borders.
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, it reminds me of a mix of Jon Bois and BobbyBroccoli in all the best ways, here’s hoping you blow up like those two did!
my guy. unbelievable video. I can tell you put so much effort into everything you do here, and I just want you to know it doesn’t go unnoticed/unappreciated. keep doing what you’re doing, excited to be able to say I found you before you blew up to massive heights ✊🏼
While it wasn't a record, the 1989 Asterisk Game between the Packers and Bears did have an asterisk. The official team media guide of the Chicago Bears was gave that game's results an asterisk for ten years. It wasn't a league wide asterisk, but a NFL team willingly put an asterisk on that game. This was an amazing video and im loving your work, keep it up man!
LEGENDARY CHANNEL. Please keep working hard, it does NOT go unnoticed. I, among many I’m sure, have shared your channel with a dozen or so friends. Channels like yours are rare. You’re a huge inspiration. Keep grinding.
today i learned there are asterisks in sports, learned about different examples of asterisks in sports, and then i learned that asterisks don’t actually exist in sports. perfect video. 10/10
i'm glad the algorithm keeps recommending your videos. reminded me to subscribe. i do not watch sports, but you are a compelling enough storyteller to keep me interested. thank you.
I was just thinking about this the other day, super interesting topic and awesome story line! Love the formula, keep innovating on it and I think you'll go far!
This is phenomenal, absolute banger of a video. It explains so much history and how the public's thoughts effect things a lot actually. I love the detail with analysing what the asterisk actually is. I don't know much about sports other than hockey but I've always thought that even if he did cheat, Barry Bonds deserves to be in the hall of fame just because of the record. Also the Gretzky thing is pretty true, Gordie is still treated as one of the games best players and if talking about the greatest ever you need to mention Howe and his years in the WHA alongside the NHL, NHL only won't cut it.
I think one of the things to nail home your point at the end, a record book is a book, it can provide all the context it wants without need for a silly symbol and a footnote, there's plenty of space on the pages to discuss the various changes and controversies without those
I spent the whole video thinking about the fact that the triangles in the pentagon are not perfectly aligned and it kinda ruined the whole thing for me (not really just wanted to point out this silly fact and "ruin" it for everyone else lol)
The movie 61* is one of the most underrated sports movies of all time. It really highlights all the pressure that was on Roger Maris. Maris was a outsider/brand new to the Yankees in 1961 so when him and Mantle were close, yankee fans and the media really pushed to do whatever they could to support Mantle and keep Maris from getting ahead. Mantle ended up getting hurt and the rest is history.
I didn't know that Barry Bonds records were never out with an asterisk. I assumed they had one because he could not get in the hall of fame. Amazing video. Keep up the good work.
Speaking as someone more familiar with motorsports, specifically f1, I think the one controversy people like to put an asterisk on is the 2008 singapore gp. The story basically boils down to renault telling nelson piquet jr. to deliberately crash to bring out the safety car and allow his team mate alonso to win. After an investigation by the world motorsports council in 2009, they put the team on probation for 2 years and banned the team's higher-ups for life (was appealed) But in all this, the official standings of the season still has alonso as the winner of the race and he himself was aquitted of any involvement in the scheme. Even though some drivers questioned why alonso went along with the odd strategy the team had him on. No astersk, no retroactive change.
I am so impressed by this video. The effort in research and editing is insane. And you don’t even have 8 thousand subscribers??? Just gained another one
Reminds me of in rugby union, South Africa weren’t allowed in the first two world cups due to apartheid, so when they entered the 3rd and won, someone (not everyone in South Africa) claimed something like “we are the first world champions” at the celebration dinner, to which the runners up and true first world champions New Zealand walked out in protest
This is an incredible well made video (at the very least on the visual side, I'm not sure if there's any factual inaccuracies but I doubt it), I've used Prezi before but I never expected such an amazing video could be made using it. Keep up the great work, looking forward to the next topic you'll make a video on!
😂😂😂😂😂😂 compare it to astros fans clinging to their asterisk ‘17 “ring” and it’ll seem much less impactful. everyone had the chance in 2020. only the astros had the trash cans.
Awesome video! I can clearly see the Jon Bois and BobbyBroccoli influence. Really fun topic and lots of fun stories. I wish you covered Bountygate just because it makes my blood boil more than any other sports controversy. Great stuff
I love that the jon bois aeathetic of video os well established and known enough to be done justice by other creators Your video is very well wrotten as well Damn glad this popped up in therecomendations
In college sports, they (used to) strip titles and accomplishments of players who were paid by their schools to attend. Michigan's 1991 & 1992 seasons and Reggie Bush's 2005 Heisman along with USC's entire season in the same year are ones that come to mind. Technically, these are actually vacated and officially aren't in the record books; far more severe and concrete. However, if they are included along side other seasons in many manner, they all usually have asterisks attached to them (or are crossed out).
First and foremost, absolute banger of a video and I will be subbing. Secondly, I never really realized there's no real asterisks in record books. I had heard of Roger Maris' but never looked into it or asked why
I really love the Jon boiz ( and Bobby Broccoli) influenced editing, I really wish more people would utilise it. It's so visually appealing to watch and this video was so informative and fun to watch!
What about the Tour de France wins of Lance Armstrong? They have been officially removed and often appear with a literal asterisk or another marker to give the additional information.
this one I thought of using as an example. great question though so i’ll answer as best i can still.
lance armstrong was stripped of those titles. he did not win them. there is no asterisks next to his name, his name just isn’t there. another good example is the 2013 louisville men’s basketball team, their ncaa title was fully stripped for some pretty bad recruiting violations. again no louisville with an asterisk, just no team at all won the championship.
i had a whole part about this that i decided to cut, but the long story short is an asterisk is not the worst thing that can happpen to you in sports. if your sport wants to take away your title or record, they can and will just take it and leave you with nothing. asterisks are for the moments that don’t necessarily need to be taken away altogether, not the worst atrocities in sports, but the ones that just require a little extra context. and they give that context!! thanks for watching.
@@hydn.I think the most interesting case is the case of Bjarne Riis - the winner of the 1996 Tour de France. In 2007 he admitted to having doped throughout his career and was officially stripped of his title by the Tour organisers - and then reinstated as the winner again in 2008, with actual TDF officials claiming Riis was the winner “with an asterisk”. They said they had to keep him as the winner because of the 10-year period of limitation, as they could no longer disqualify him.
It must be said that the UCI - the governing body of cycling - always viewed Riis as the winner and at no point stripped him of the title, unlike the organisers of the Tour de France. Still, I think it’s a fascinating case that shouldn’t be forgotten when we talk about asterisks in sports.
@@hydn. I've got a couple problems with this. When talking about the 2017 Astros title, you specifically mention that cheating doesn't even take away the trophy even though there have been several examples, like the ones you listed, of exactly that happening. Additionally, the 2013 Louisville basketball one is a very interesting case, as we know that at least none of the starters or main rotational players for the team were involved with it. We know this because several of these players were involved in a class action suit against the NCAA and settled for getting their own personal stats and awards back. Stripping this title because bench warmers and potential recruits were involved would be like taking away Serbia's olympic bronze because some Serbian who was at the national team tryouts was bribed by fans, but didn't end up playing a single minute of the tournament. Punish the school with fines and scholarship reductions, sure, but taking away the title because some bench players had some strippers called to their rooms is a ridiculous punishment. Oh and if you look online, pretty much everyone agrees that the NCAA got it wrong, including the independent review board that the NCAA hired, and recognizes Louisville as 2013 national champions
Similarly in italian football Juventus were stripped of the 2004-05 Serie A title because of a cheating scandal that saw multiple referees fired and Juve themselves being sent down to Serie B. Look up the Calciopoli scandal.
I agree with a lot of these comments maybe this should have been no asterisks in the big American 4 or a title similar, theres a ton of examples of asterisks in other sports golf, table tennis, etc.
Is amazing how influential Jon Bois has been on sports commentary and entertainment on TH-cam. What a legend
He's the reason video essayists learn Google Earth.
This is more inspired by Bobby Broccoli (who himself was very inspired by Jon Bois, no question, he even cited scorigami in one of his vids). One of the backing tracks here is a regular occurrence in Bobby Broccoli videos. Also a channel that’s worth your time if you’re into Jon Bois’ style.
But yeah, Jon’s the GOAT, and his creative vision leaving its mark elsewhere is sick.
@@jerrykurinsky3891I mean all of these essayists take inspiration from each other and bring their own creativity to their work, but Jon Bois is undoubtedly the ground zero for this style of content
Bois didn't really do shit that wasn't already being done. Other than Google Earth, which looks dumb.
It's about presentation. Jon, EmpLemon and Lemmino have defined the YT genre. @etymonlegomenon931
What's the hardest part of being the best hockey player of all time?
Convincing everyone else that that's not you, it's Gordie Howe
The most Canadian sport, indeed
made me laugh
@@MenwithHill😂😂😂😂
If people were saying that there should be an asterisk for Gordie Howe to include WHA points, then Wayne's total should go up another 110 pts for his year in the WHA
The difference between 154 and 162 games might not warrant an asterisk for counting stats, but any rate stat records broken in a severely shortened season (like 2020 MLB's 60 games) probably does warrant an asterisk.
Like the negro leagues that are be counted as MLB now (no problem with that at all) but they played way less games and now own the rate records even though they would not have qualified for the rate stats in MLB.
I also think it's just a bad mindset to have. Changes to sport are bound to happen, so if people are going to put an asterisks on any record after the change in rules or change in number of Games, then every record would have an asterisks next to it.
@@queenautumnween2796u could just have a season record and an “x” game record for the record standardized to the original season length.
@@queenautumnween2796 Or you could divide the record by the total season length.
Championships won in reduced seasons also have asterisks for good reason. Washington in the strike shortened seasons for example
Jochen Rindt- 1970 formula one champion*
-formula one’s only post mortem world champion. Rest in peace.
They gave the trophy to his widow
maxs 2021 championship would’ve been perfect for this video
“Gretzky: a top 1 NHL player of all-time” lmaooo
Jon bois 2! That's a good thing btw.
Jon Bois with a little Vsauce
Bobby Broccoli is Jon Bois 2, this is Bobby Broccoli 2
John Boys
not really the schitck is old now
@@hello-rq8kf ?
08-09 swimming records have asterisks because of the super suit era
And the records are just as low if not lower then when the suits were used 16 years ago :)
There actually are no asterisks...
I have an interesting one for you - Eliud Kipchoge's 1:59:40 marathon. There was a whole event put on just to see if the two hour marathon was breakable, and it proved to be, under those specific conditions at least. It's not listed as a record - this is certainly the correct call, he had 41 pacers and guys on bikes brought water to him throughout - but in the purest sense of the race, he did traverse the 26.2 miles under his own power. Stands to reason then, that whether it's an official world record or not, it's an official time in Kipchoge's career accomplishments. Official world record is 2:00:35 by Kelvin Kiptum (RIP) from Chicago 2023.
On Kipchoge's own Wiki page it lists two personal bests for the marathon, a 2:01:09 from Berlin 2022, as well as the 1:59:40 from the closed course Vienna event in 2019. Bonus points if you can guess what symbol appears next to the 1:59:40.
Ultimately, in time the 1:59:40 will likely be broken in a standard race rather than a sponsored and closed event, and everything will be combined on the overall leaderboard, but as Kipchoge is 39 now, it's unlikely his own two separate personal bests will ever be joined. If nowhere else (since the 1:59:40 is basically treated as a non-event by sanctioned bodies) on his wiki there will always be an asterisk.
Wait, they literally thought it wasnt possible to finish a 2 hour race 30 seconds faster 😂😂
At this point, fuck it and give Kipchoge the official record. He broke it without being artificially pushed forward by any external force (see Justin Gatlin's 9.4 100 meter dash) therefore, why would it not "officially" count???
@@ThatSB do you realise how much training and optimisation has happened to get the record to this point? An extra 30 seconds may as well be an extra hour, because it took a freakishly good athlete, all the modern tech, plus a ton of help that most marathon runners wouldn't normally get
Kiptum absolutely would have done it had he not had his life so tragically cut short, but he was a once in a generation talent. With him gone it'll likely take a bit longer until we see sub 2 in a "proper" marathon
Well produced video. Two thoughts.
1) The OG asterisk for Maris was ironically held up as the legit record, in the face of the steroid era video game numbers put up by McGwire, Sosa and Bonds. To the point that now some would say Judge has the record at 62, since he appears to have done it cleanly. Even though 62 is... 11 shy of Bonds and 8 shy of McGwire.
2) I think there are some legitimate asterisks in recordbooks when it comes to Olympic sports. For instance a long jump might be invalidated as wind-assisted, despite it counting in the event itself. There is also the case where equipment rules have changed, such as what swimmers are allowed to wear, which I believe invalidated some records, but not the medals earned? Officially they counted because they were allowed under the rules of the time, but give such an advantage that the records set using them dont count as a benchmark anymore. I'm not totally sure about this, but I think this is the case in some situations, and that would, to me, be a true asterisk (or what the asterisk is thought to mean) type of situation.
I think baseball may have something similar here, when we consider records being only "Modern era" records, discounting things from much before Ruth's era. This particularly applies to certain pitching stats. Cy Young's record for most career Wins will simply never be challenged, but the game was so different then that we put an effective asterisk on a lot of them, and consider who is the best "modern" player too. The old records aren't invalid, they're just seen as relics of a different era.
The second point especially is important, the 2012 US 4x100 and Ben Johnson's 9.79 in 1988 both have asterisks for doping, Carl Lewis was briefly a record holder after he broke Bob Beamon's record, only for his jump to be ruled wind assisted, and then having it beaten by Mike Powell later that same day who didn't have wind resistance. Tyson Gay would have held a 100m record if not for a tailwind, that time has an asterisk. It was a good video, the conclusion just needs work, it feels like a reach to say asterisks don't exist in sport.
The real line is pre integration. Prior to Jackie breaking the color line, the exclusion of black players means that the best competition was actively being excluded and so anything pre integration basically gets thrown out and not taken seriously by anyone who knows what they're talking about
There are no asterisks for super suit swimming records
@@josh-spookythose aren't asterisks, the titles were straight up removed and medals forced to be returned.
NBA records vs. non-Wilt Chamberlain NBA records
EDIT: EVERYTHING IN THIS COMMENT IS WRONG, I WAS TOLD IN CONFIDENCE STUFF THAT WAS WRONG AND BELIEVED THEM
roger maris's home run was hit in game 163 not 162, they were tied lead in their division at the end of the season and had to play an extra game as a tie breaker, which is part of why it was so controversial
i feel like 163 shouldn’t have existed if you weren’t allowed to use it
@@ajkfalawhat?
@@smoceany9478 you’ll figure it out
@@smoceany9478 if you get forced into a 163rd game (via tie in standings or trade) your stats should still count since your having to play.
This is not accurate, the Yankees won the AL by 8 clear games (and there were no "divisions" back then, just the American and National Leagues). They *did* play 163 games, though, because early in the season, a game was called due to rain with the score tied in the 7th inning. Until a few years ago, if a game had reached official length and was called with a tie score, it was called a tie with all statistics counting, and then made up in its entirety later in the season. This was not unusual, and is not why Maris's 61 was controversial.
There's this great folk song, Trudy by Dan Bern.
"Man comes in, sees old Barry on the wall, and says there ought to be an asterisk up there. So I painted on the wall with a paintbrush in my hand, an asterisk, but what the hell he's still up there."
Great video 👍
Quick note though, as a Brit and a cricket fan, the asterisk is actually a very important & POSITIVE symbol in this sport.
The asterisk is used next to the number of runs scored by a single batsman to denote he was not got out, ( “dismissed” ), during a single innings.
In my opinion the two most important asterisks in the game are held by the same guy, Brian Charles Lara.
Lara was a phenomenally talented left handed batsman, (batter), from Trinidad who achieved the world record test score of 400 not out, or 400* as it is displayed in the record books, for the West Indies versus England in 2004. He also holds the world record for the highest first class score of 501 not out , or 501*, for Warwickshire vs. Durham in 1994.
Fascinating video. Really well-done. I'm excited to watch more of your stuff and follow your career as a TH-camr, cause I can tell you're going to be very successful.
What a nice guy
oh my wow, i thought someone was playing a prank on me when i saw your name. thank you so much, to have someone i've sat up watching for hours see one of my videos is crazy to wrap my head around!!
@@hydn. For sure, I'd love to chat with you more if you have IG or something. I am just watching your NBA Iceberg vid as we speak!
I've been surprised about how few people have been able to successfully replicate Jon bois' style. Good work
I respect the bubble ring! Basketball in its purest form. No crowd, no travel, no distractions, just basketball. Wish they had a semi regular tournament like that in the NBA but I know the players wouldn’t go for it
Basketball hasn't been played in America since 2005......
@@alwoods8010???
Basketball without a crowd is not Basketball this isn't golf this is Basketball
@@liams.8369idk if you’ve ever seen a golf tournament but they get *huge* crowds.
Maybe if everyone cared but they didn’t
there is an asterisk on louisville's 2013 college basketball championship, and it is there on the ncaa's official list of national champions
I go to UofL and they changed ALL the banners around the city after it got overturned
Dumbest asterisk ever
I think technically according to the ncaa its just vacated. The ncaa acts like it never happened officially
@@LucasNiemiFilmsthey cheated
@@joeym5243 cope
Nowhere is public perception more relevant than in entertainment, and no entertainment is bigger than sports. When Aaron Judge hit 62, people were going crazy about the AL single season home run record, but it was kinda sold as the rightful heir to the MLB record, which only added to its perceived value.
super well put, you comment like a professional writer
Wow, finally we have someone whos applying the Bobby broccoli style to talking about sports
Both this guy and Bobby Broccoli take a lot of influence from Jon Bois, who does videos on sports. So it’d be more accurate to say that Bobby Broccoli applied the Jon Bois style to science lmao.
1974. Our family got a new set of World Book Encyclopedias. I open to the baseball section in the "B" book:
MOST HOME RUNS (154 game season) Babe Ruth...60
MOST HOME RUNS(162 game season) Roger Maris...61
MOST STOLEN BASES(154 game season) Ty Cobb...96
MOST STOLEN BASES(162 game season) Maury Wills...104
Those are the two I remember. There may have been more. So, for me, it wasn't an asterisk, but pointing out the season length differences. Even the World Book Encyclopedia short changed Maris (and Wills).
Then, quick side note: during the 1974 season, Lou Brock stole 118 bases. Of course, the World Book Encyclopedia for 1974 included history only through 1973.
I have two stories from Polish football/soccer:
- Sunday of Miracles, May 1993 - Legia Warsaw, ŁKS Łódź and Lech Poznań were in the title race, and on the last day, Legia led ŁKS on goal difference, Lech being three points (a win) behind them. Legia won their last game 6-0, while ŁKS won theirs 7-1, flaring up corruption suspicions (corruption in sports was not yet made illegal after communist times). Polish FA cancelled the results of both matches and awarded the championship to Lech, but Legia counts it as their title to this day, even explicitly stating that on their club store two weeks ago.
- 2006/07 Championship - The champion from this season, Zagłębie Lubin, was found to buy matches two years later and penalised with relegation (individual players were found guilty in criminal court as well), but was not stripped of their title. Two years ago, Zagłębie fans omitted everyone from this season, so one of their two championship teams, while voting on the official all-time team. Really makes the old noggin' joggin'.
Little addendum to Sunday of Miracles, one of Legia's opponents from the last game admitted to being one of the people who sold the 6-0 game back in 2021.
Amazing video! As an Australian I just want to share an (in)famous asterisk story in Australian Rugby League (not AFL but NRL)
In the late 2000s, our version of the Patriots, the Melbourne Storm were dominant. Led by a dominant big 3 in Cameron Smith, Billy Slater and Cooper Cronk with an electric young upstart in Greg Inglis, the Storm would progress to their 4th consecutive grand final and beat the Parramatta Eels for their 2nd premiership in 3 years, solidifying themselves as one of the greatest teams in the competition's 100 year history.
The next year however, the Storm were found to have been secretly breaching the salary cap for over 5 years. As a result, the NRL would strip their 2007 and 2009 premierships. Furthermore, the Storm were unable to earn any points for the 2010, finishing the year on 0 points despite winning 14 games.
While a bit more than an 'asterisk', the Storm are a fascinating contrast to the differing reactions to cheating amongst sporting competitions in America vs here in Australia
The Storm really are the Patriots, I've never thought of them like that but they are the only team in an area where the sport is otherwise unpopular, and definitely do cheat. Pretty funny that Carlton cheated the salary cap a similar amount in the early 2000s but were rubbish the whole time
Yeah it’s a very American-brained take to say that an asterisk appears in zero official record books for any sport. Like good video but come on the world extends beyond the US borders.
@@whytfdidyoutubeaddthis America just has a different meaning for Sports with a capital S in their version of English
FINALLY something to fill that jon bois-shaped hole in our hearts lol
The last thing I expected in my baseball content was some 8 bit big brother music. Legit had to double take to see if I was correct
my worlds have collided lmaoo
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, it reminds me of a mix of Jon Bois and BobbyBroccoli in all the best ways, here’s hoping you blow up like those two did!
my guy. unbelievable video. I can tell you put so much effort into everything you do here, and I just want you to know it doesn’t go unnoticed/unappreciated. keep doing what you’re doing, excited to be able to say I found you before you blew up to massive heights ✊🏼
While it wasn't a record, the 1989 Asterisk Game between the Packers and Bears did have an asterisk. The official team media guide of the Chicago Bears was gave that game's results an asterisk for ten years. It wasn't a league wide asterisk, but a NFL team willingly put an asterisk on that game.
This was an amazing video and im loving your work, keep it up man!
solid video, deserves way more views
It came out five minutes before your comment lol.
Came here to say this
13:20 You know I know to much about sports when this graph immediately makes sense to me lol
LEGENDARY CHANNEL. Please keep working hard, it does NOT go unnoticed. I, among many I’m sure, have shared your channel with a dozen or so friends. Channels like yours are rare.
You’re a huge inspiration.
Keep grinding.
yet another hydn banger, been loving your channel man
The quality of these videos deserves a trillion more views
today i learned there are asterisks in sports, learned about different examples of asterisks in sports, and then i learned that asterisks don’t actually exist in sports. perfect video. 10/10
i'm glad the algorithm keeps recommending your videos. reminded me to subscribe. i do not watch sports, but you are a compelling enough storyteller to keep me interested.
thank you.
Dude you’re a top tier creator. Keep it up bro!!
One of the best video essays in recent memory. Keep it up this is a banger
Single most underrated channel on youtube right now, I really hope to see this channel blow up. Keep up the good work man!
love the video! really creative choice to frame the visuals around an asterisk, looking forward to watching more from you
Reggie Bush had his Heisman stripped but it was reinstated.
9:13 Apples for apple pie and a gun to protect it, James is a real American
This is an incredible video with amazing production value. I hope you continue this work because it’s very well done.
Two biggest twists I have ever seen in a TH-cam video
The only thing is that Barry didn’t get into the hof so it did hold him back at least a bit
Incredible video that mixes its influences into a unique creative vision. Glad I found this
This is by far some of the best sports content on TH-cam period
I was just thinking about this the other day, super interesting topic and awesome story line! Love the formula, keep innovating on it and I think you'll go far!
This is phenomenal, absolute banger of a video. It explains so much history and how the public's thoughts effect things a lot actually. I love the detail with analysing what the asterisk actually is. I don't know much about sports other than hockey but I've always thought that even if he did cheat, Barry Bonds deserves to be in the hall of fame just because of the record. Also the Gretzky thing is pretty true, Gordie is still treated as one of the games best players and if talking about the greatest ever you need to mention Howe and his years in the WHA alongside the NHL, NHL only won't cut it.
I think one of the things to nail home your point at the end, a record book is a book, it can provide all the context it wants without need for a silly symbol and a footnote, there's plenty of space on the pages to discuss the various changes and controversies without those
i fully agree, great point
It seems like the real asterisk was the freinds we made along the way.
Videos like these are my favorite thing on YT. Keep it up man
TH-cam sports docs are my love language and you speak it so eloquently
incredibly well made video holy moly you deserve more recognition
GOOD HEAVENS!! the editing in this video is so AWESOME!!!
sweet video. I'm excited to see what else comes from this channel!
What about in chess? The Fide champions there were 2 champions Garry Kasparov had his own championship and Fide did also
Incredibly well done video. Looking forward to bragging about subscribing so early once this channel blows up. The next Jon Bois is here, folks!
Incredible video. It is shocking you only have 8.6k subs. ou deserve the world man. Keep it up!
i feel absolutely blessed getting this on my feed at 4k views, i just know this shits gonna get well over 100k and it deserves it
love the john bois inspired animation. Also an amazing video.
Production value through the roof
I spent the whole video thinking about the fact that the triangles in the pentagon are not perfectly aligned and it kinda ruined the whole thing for me (not really just wanted to point out this silly fact and "ruin" it for everyone else lol)
it annoyed me too the whole time editing and i just wish i was good enough at blender to fix it but i couldn't. we're learning
The movie 61* is one of the most underrated sports movies of all time. It really highlights all the pressure that was on Roger Maris. Maris was a outsider/brand new to the Yankees in 1961 so when him and Mantle were close, yankee fans and the media really pushed to do whatever they could to support Mantle and keep Maris from getting ahead. Mantle ended up getting hurt and the rest is history.
Liverpool have an asterisk next to their name on the premier league trophy
Gorgeous video, very underrated !! Hope this reaches more people
This might be the highest quality video I’ve ever watched by a TH-cam channel below 10k subscribers
I didn't know that Barry Bonds records were never out with an asterisk. I assumed they had one because he could not get in the hall of fame. Amazing video. Keep up the good work.
Loved the video! I'm excited to have found a new channel I think I'm gonna love
I don’t see why season long records can’t be separated by length of season.
9:46 in my school in England we continued to use × for multiplication, and a different looking x for algerbra
I feel like I’m watching an og jon bois video keep up the good work bro
Such a high quality video! Great production value like the rest of your catalog. Matter of time of the subscriber count skyrocketing! Keep it up!
Javelin literally reset the official world records when the equipment changed.
Feels very Chart Party, and I love it
Speaking as someone more familiar with motorsports, specifically f1, I think the one controversy people like to put an asterisk on is the 2008 singapore gp. The story basically boils down to renault telling nelson piquet jr. to deliberately crash to bring out the safety car and allow his team mate alonso to win.
After an investigation by the world motorsports council in 2009, they put the team on probation for 2 years and banned the team's higher-ups for life (was appealed)
But in all this, the official standings of the season still has alonso as the winner of the race and he himself was aquitted of any involvement in the scheme. Even though some drivers questioned why alonso went along with the odd strategy the team had him on. No astersk, no retroactive change.
I don’t even watch sports but I find every video in this channel to bed super interesting you deserve a million subs bro
I am so impressed by this video. The effort in research and editing is insane. And you don’t even have 8 thousand subscribers??? Just gained another one
Really awesome video. Floored at your presentation. Subbed, and excited to see whatever you do next!
17:36 steroids don’t help you increase pitching velocity, but it sure does help increase strength which does help hit home runs.
this video only have 40k views is insane, this video is amazing and so well-made
Reminds me of in rugby union, South Africa weren’t allowed in the first two world cups due to apartheid, so when they entered the 3rd and won, someone (not everyone in South Africa) claimed something like “we are the first world champions” at the celebration dinner, to which the runners up and true first world champions New Zealand walked out in protest
This is an incredible well made video (at the very least on the visual side, I'm not sure if there's any factual inaccuracies but I doubt it), I've used Prezi before but I never expected such an amazing video could be made using it. Keep up the great work, looking forward to the next topic you'll make a video on!
it’s funny how dodgers fans cling onto that asterisks ring like it’s the only thing they have
😂😂😂😂😂😂 compare it to astros fans clinging to their asterisk ‘17 “ring” and it’ll seem much less impactful. everyone had the chance in 2020. only the astros had the trash cans.
@@tommykahnleburnerAstros won another ring in 2022
@@tommykahnleburner 2020 season should have an asterisk next to the champion regardless of who won, it just happened to be la
Keep making this... This was amazing. Love the graphics.
This channel is pretty rucking great. Great vid!
Awesome video! I can clearly see the Jon Bois and BobbyBroccoli influence. Really fun topic and lots of fun stories. I wish you covered Bountygate just because it makes my blood boil more than any other sports controversy. Great stuff
I think this is my favorite video of yours yet! Keep it up man
I saw this on my home page , accidentally refreshed the page and I spent 5 mins looking for this .
*When from watching a sports video to practicing zen*
I love that the jon bois aeathetic of video os well established and known enough to be done justice by other creators
Your video is very well wrotten as well
Damn glad this popped up in therecomendations
I love the baby broccoli style you do it really really well !!
I know NOTHING about any sport ever, this was still super enjoyable to watch
In college sports, they (used to) strip titles and accomplishments of players who were paid by their schools to attend. Michigan's 1991 & 1992 seasons and Reggie Bush's 2005 Heisman along with USC's entire season in the same year are ones that come to mind.
Technically, these are actually vacated and officially aren't in the record books; far more severe and concrete. However, if they are included along side other seasons in many manner, they all usually have asterisks attached to them (or are crossed out).
Michigan last year????
Keep up the good work with this channel. I don’t see why you won’t surpass a 6-figure subscriber count sooner than later.
Holy shit what a good video, very Jon Bois-esque. May the algorithm bless you
Banger video, next youtube essay star right here. Use your powers responsibly
7:40 xaxaxa thought that beat went hard this guy is JxmyHighroller for all of ball sports
You’re my new favorite boislike channel
First and foremost, absolute banger of a video and I will be subbing. Secondly, I never really realized there's no real asterisks in record books. I had heard of Roger Maris' but never looked into it or asked why
I really love the Jon boiz ( and Bobby Broccoli) influenced editing, I really wish more people would utilise it. It's so visually appealing to watch and this video was so informative and fun to watch!
Pretty sure Jon Bois is the founder of this style of editing.
@@JorWat25 fuck howd i forget about the goat