Cozy Games are Becoming a Problem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2024
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Amidst the warmth of cozy games like farming simulators and whimsical adventures, we uncover a trend that blurs the line between cute and quality.
From Spirittea's letdown to misplaced accolades, we question the impact on players and the gaming industry.
Searching for the ultimate cozy indie games? Explore our reviews to find your next favorite game:
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- Sun Haven Review: indiegameculture.com/reviews/...
- Other Games Like Spiritfarer to Play Right Now if You Loved Spiritfarer: indiegameculture.com/best-ind...
#indiegames #bestindiegames #gameplay #gamer #games #gamesuggestions #videogames #videoessay #Videogameessay #cozyindiegames #bestcozyindiegames #worstcozyindiegames #game #paleopines #KenaBridgeofSpirits
#cozygamereview #indiegameculture #CultoftheLamb #Spirittea - เกม
I have to agree with most of this - as someone who grew up playing games like Harvest Moon, Animal Crossing, Legend of Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario Sunshine - so many games these days have absolutely no heart, soul or substance. They feel like half-baked ideas that lack depth with storylines that make little sense, hosted by characters and NPCs with no real sense of personality. But they get so much attention and hype because of their aesthetic and art style. If I had to choose one game from last year that was most disappointing, I'd have to say Fae Farm...I miss the days of losing myself in games where you really cared about the characters and their storylines. I hope this hype craze around games in general leads to more fleshed-out and unique games.
The games you named were not indies. Indie gaming has the unfortunate problem of being made by indie devs. A lot of these devs have time and again been shown to have almost crippling mental illnesses and especially personality disorders. They make games that reflect this. Empty, soulless imitations of actual, much better games.
@@perydwynno, they usually just have not enough skills or not enough budget. They're usually either programmers or, rately, artists, not writers or game designers. They try to wear all the hats but they're not always able to. There are many examples of good and not soulless indie games. Stardew Valley, Celeste, Hollow Knight, Undertale, Hades, Papers Please, I also really like the idea behind Will You Snail or Thronefall.
You seem to have a significant bias against indie devs though, are you sure you're not conflating all of the people who were grouped by the trait of not wanting to use a publisher, with just YandereDev or that guy who made Fez? What do you base your conviction that indie devs are mentally ill or have personality disorder on?
Have to back you on this one. Not every developer is like Phil Fish. In fact, I would argue that almost any indie developer out there can handle extreme workloads better than any AAA representative. Sure they have crunch and deadlines, but they have one role, not all the roles in some cases.
Not to mention, Indie Games, when they aren't like the cases highlighted in this video, are some of the most passion-led, soulful, meticulously crafted games around, and it's because they don't have fat cats breathing down their neck to add skins and Fortnite dances
It’s all for the sake of the money grab.
@@indiegameculture1damn right!!
I made a joke before about counting how many games at Wholesome Direct boil down to [animal] opens [type of cafe] in [idyllic location]. And realistically, they can’t all be good. We need more variety than this. We need new ideas.
we have so many games coming out everyday though. I don't think its a huge problem. people said the same thing about "every game being a roguelike" for awhile. there are thousands of games coming out every year. theres something for everyone. this trend will die down and level out because of the large amount of poor quality ones and the devs wanting a quick cashgrab will switch to something else.
I mainly have an issue with how often the word "cozy" gets used to describe games. I would not call a horror game cozy, even if it has a cute art style, because cozy is a comfortable feeling to me. I have seen people describe Dredge as cozy, but I only get unsettle, anxiety and iry feelings, when I see gameplay. Using keywords to describe games only goes so far.
Another problem with really everything is that reviews are made to fast. Game reviewers seems to be getting the product or code pretty late and then race to get through the game before writing a review. It reminds of buying my dishwasher and only a day after I received it I got hounded for a review of the product I have not had a chance to use. Most reviews now feels like first impressions and not actual properly tested reviews. When I got "Nobody saves the universe" for switch, I quickly found out that you cannot play in handheld because your switch tells you to disconnect your joy-cons if you try to play. I have search all the reviews I could find to see if it was mentioned. It was not, it says everywhere that you can play in handheld but I cannot. I think that is big problem, that reviews fail to mention or fail to test information that are put into the review.
I feel the same about people calling Cult Of The Lamb a cozy game. I don't see how the cutesy art style is enough to balance out all the tragedy and horrifying acts the player commits. Even if you try to play the role of a benevolent leader, you're still manipulating your followers and using them as resources. Keeping those followers happy and healthy can also be stressful until you unlock and build enough things. And the world outside your cult is still awful from the influence of the bishops, even after you defeat them. It's a fun game, but it's definitely not cozy.
@@cyanodrake5892 Exactly, Oxygen Not Included has a cute little pixel art style, absolutely not a "cozy" game to play. I haven't really seen people calling it that, but I wouldn't expect them to call Cult of the Lamb "cozy" either. Little Inferno is sort of a "cozy" game, in that you are trying to burn things to stay warm and the art is cute and the gameplay is limited but the underlying story is anything but "cozy".
I think part of the issues is "cozy games" as a genre just aren't very descriptive so you could argue way too many things to be a cozy game. MMORPGs and ARPGs are other good examples of this. The genre name doesn't tell you anything about the actual game other than possibly adjacent games. For example if you look on steam there are JRPGS that are labeled as ARPGs even though those are two drastically different genres. I think the biggest issue is this isn't even a "cozy game" specific problem. I think the only two genres that don't have this issue are FPS games and RTS games.
@@BlueRoseFaery if don't starve came out now people would be labeling it as cozy because of the cute art style.
My gf and I followed several cozy gaming channels, because we like the chill gameplay and cute art style. Then they started recommending ANYTHING with a cute, cartoony artstyle as cozy, even if it had violent brutal combat or stressful fast paced platforming. I'm sorry but if you took the blood out of supermeat boy it would not be cozy.
allow me to be a bit biased over here for anyone still not sure whether to try Dredge or not! :D
I'm someone with thalassophobia and I genuinely think Dredge is a cozy game. the only "stakes" it has is that you just need to sleep at night or you'll go insane. It's really easy to avoid the horrors in this game and I think it just gets this reputation because they "exist" in it. for the most part the gameplay cycle is very chill and cozy.
I enjoyed Dredge so much and I'm still trying to find a game like it! I understand that not everyone can handle horror themes but they weren't as prominent during the gameplay as you'd think :)
I agree with what you said about something being "cute does not necessarily mean quality" or something. I have tried a lot of farming games with cute graphics but the gameplay did not even come close to my expectations. Also, the hype of the content creators did not actually help a lot. Reviewing a game that they played for 5 hours should not be sufficient, though I do know that the 'competition to be the first to publish a review' is the primary factor.
Completely agree, which is why we always put our time played as a footer in our reviews for a little extra layer of authenticity. But, when push comes to shove, a lot of people look at the score, the pros and cons, and then bounce. So, how would they know if the reviewer played for 5 or 50 hours?
thats the problem with this cozy gaming youtube channels. they want to pump out weekly videos so anything with a cute art style is lumped into cozy games, regardless of the gameplay, and then they play a few hours of it and say they loved their time with it, then after everyone buys the game they later make a video of "what cozy games I was disappointed it" and talk about all the games they were bored by when they put more than an afternoon's worth of time into.
@@Zectifinah yes, content doubling exploit
My idea of a cozy game is a game without any specific goal. I just want to walk around interacting with things.
To add to that. Not entirely without a goal. But a goal of your own choosing. And possibly without a goal if you so please. Without the pressure of time. Like "A Short Hike" for instance. It does have a goal, but you can take as long as you want and take as many sidetracks as you want. Same with Stardew Valley. You can have as many goals as you want in that game. Or you can just relaxingly coast around doing as much or as little as you want. Freedom is what comes to my mind when I think of cosy games.
one problem I have is the focusing on the cute art style. I think any game that is chill and calm and has gameplay with little to no penalties could be cozy? I love how chill and pretty the world is in Snowrunners, and theres very little penalties for failing. Why isn't that considered cozy? I guess because it has big rigs and not cute animal people? whats not cozy about driving at like 1-2 MPH through beautiful scenery?
Then this year might be for you. There are so many games like that coming out. Like Eastshade, and Nightingale
Meanwhile, Sky CoTL just exists 🤭
@@AC_Yara I like Sky
I wish even more people talk about this. A lot of people enjoy cozy games but not a lot of them can even describe what a cozy game is (including me).
Is it a vibe? is it the visual? is it the lack of gameplay?
You know, I think it is a vibe. Any game can be cozy, just depends on what you find Cozy. I find roaming around, fishing, and looking at the night sky in RDD2, just as cozy as Animal Crossing. That's why publishers are still trying to crack the code. Cozy means so many different things to so many different gamers.
@@corimyers4985 I agree, and some games try a one size fits all approach which doesn't land.
The Formula: Cozy Game = Low stress, clear gameplay + great ambient music.
I'd even say a game like Sea of Stars can contend for being a 'cozy game' even though on paper, it wouldn't come across as one when described. I think art direction/music and basically anything that contributes to an overall atmosphere is a big factor for making a cozy game. The problem here is, if a cozy game is 'only' those things. Its like a great packaging but there needs to be an actual gift to wrap it.
my problem is its not really a genre, its an art style. I think one of the big problems is all these "cozy gaming" youtubers who want to pump out videos constantly so they label everything with a cute artstyle as cozy. how is an intense action platformer or a game where you murder people cozy? it used to be "a cute game with little to no penalties or no failure state with chill gameplay". now anything is part of it.
Yes!! I have been telling my friends that the term "cozy game" has devolved into a marketing strategy. Many games released in the last year or so have placed so much emphasis on visuals/aesthetics and often neglect the other important features of the game, just for that "cozy game" price tag.
Just like "ultra realistic graphics" in the 2010s
I got burned with Fae Farm. I looked so cute and showed off really interesting game play mechanics that looked to shake up farm sims. And it turned out to be fine, I paid way too much for it. It was in fact cute. The overarching story was decent. But is was unnecessarily grindy and having you stuff forcibly spread across 3 farms was annoying at best. Also the townsfolk were forgettable at best. I have a lot of games sitting on my wishlist that I just don't trust to be worth my time or money.
Fae farm was the only game I returned on Steam, the story was so bad, the characters were bland all with the same replies, no personality, it was so expensive for the money that I didn't think it deserves my time. If I want to breed animals and flowers I can do that on cheaper games with richer characters and interactions.
@@GeekyMina I bought my copy on switch so I'm stuck. I just kept waiting for it to get better and it did not. Definitely not worth the price tag. Especially with being spoiled with the $15 for Stardew with all the updates being free. Call us spoiled, but we expect better.
@@sncruea I'm sorry to hear that, many times I try to avoid Switch games for that reason, no refund possible and many games nowadays are sold as "cozy" or "chill" and they either don't make the effort to make something good because it will sell anyways or they're all so stressing. I'm not buying anything now that doesn't have a demo available or I have seen part of gameplay on some channel I trust.
I liked FaeFarm for a few days of play but got sick of it when it came to flower breeding. LOL!
I stopped playing Spirittea when I passed out at the end of a day and the game permanently removed a unique gift item that I had in my inventory. Extremely cute idea, very lacking in polish.
I wanted to love it so much, honestly. I've seen it's got a lot of updates since, but even still, I can't see it being improved enough to warrant more of my time.
I haven't yet had gamebreaking bugs but have had some annoying ones. Like towels disappearing because I fainted with dirty towels in my backpack, sometimes they even disappeared when the dirty ones were on the floor. The problem with a lot of games in general is that they are released as a full version but get many patches and content gets added later, while they should have been in early access. Even if it was just be able to playtest it on a mass scale.
Consider that cozy games might be new gamers’ first games though. When my sister played Tony Hawk for the first time, she was delighted to just run around the level and didn’t care about doing tricks. It used to drive me crazy, but she had completely different expectations from games at the time. She’s now a pretty hardcore player, but everyone starts somewhere, and cozy games are especially welcoming to new players.
This was pretty eye opening! I just flashbacked to many Cozy Game TH-camrs doing ranked lists for 2022, and so many didn't have a D or F rank or would be very apologetic when it came to revealing their criticisms on games. I think a big part of why I like the Cozy Game genre is that it feels very supportive and wholesome, and I get why that might lead to reviewers pulling their punches or excusing bad gameplay by suggesting the game is just "not for them"... Especially when they know the studio behind development is small/new. Although I have noticed with the over-saturation of the market more Cozy Game TH-camrs not being so shy with criticisms though. With the flood of games out there, why would an honest reviewer recommend a game that is formulaic, buggy or boring?
I think things started to go downhill when we started to treat "cozy" as a genre, because what constitutes as a cozy game is going to be different for everyone. For it to be a genre, a game needs to focus on the superficial qualities that are most consistent across everyone's own definition of coziness. I agree with a lot of what you say in this video, but honestly... I'm perplexed at the idea that Kena is by any means representative of cozy gaming just because it's cute and it won an award.
It's not a soulslike in terms of combat, as you claim, and the exploration is really fun. I recall a lot of cozy gamers being upset because they felt misled by the graphics into thinking it was a cozy game when it turned out to be fairly challenging. Whether or not it deserved the award, I don't think it's a good example for this video at all. It doesn't have the most substance to its story, but clearly a lot of thought was put into the gameplay and the challenge. Definitely not a cozy casual game.
That's a fair take, I don't necessarily agree, but I can see where you're coming from.
Genres have been screwed for a long time anyway. Cozy as a genre is far from the first offender and it won't be the last. I think the first offender would have to be MMORPGs most likely
I think "cozy game" sounds like a one way ticket to making a shallow, creatively cheap, and quick game to a lot of devs trying to hop on the hype train.
The thing is the “indi-game” category is actually not a “category”! It’s a whole world of different genres and subgenres that contradict and one-up each other. Lumping “indie-games” together into one bunch is like lumping together “artistic movies”! Some are cheap cash grabs built to make you want to play them for five minutes and then forget they have ever existed for the rest of your life, the others look unappealing and ugly but will open up as a diamond in the rough if you actually invest your time in them. As a result you can’t just make all indie games of the year compete each other - you have to have subcategories like “cute games”, “fighting games”, “horror games” and so on, just like with AAA games!
TH-cam has been very good about suggesting these high quality vids from smaller channels lately. I’ve found a ton of great people to add to my subscriptions :)
3:33 There is a plushie company called FluffNest that is making a cozy game based on their plushies called Puff Pals Island Skies.
Slme other cozy games that I have heard of are Ooblets and Garden of the Sea. Ooblets is a cute Pokémon type game where you collect little goobers and Garden of the Sea is a vr game where you make a garden and raise cute animals while trying to pht together the peices of the lore. I think some of the appeal comes from the joy you get when you raise a cute thing. It can be very calming. Another thing is the escapeism. They let you get a break from the stresses of life and relax. (You can pet the amimals in Garden of the Sea)
Cozy games have just become disassociating through tedium and repitition.
30+ hours in Spirittea.
Unlocked all Bathhouse upgrades.
Cleaned all the mess up.
Met the spirit lords.
Bought the bike.
Completed 2 of 4 shrines.
Dug up 25 maps.
Caught 70% of the bugs
Caught 60% of the fish.
I love Spirittea.
8/10 easily.
If I'd quit after 5 hours I'd have said similar to the narrator here.
It's not until you upgrade the bathhouse a bit that it starts picking up and becomes so intense you need help at the bathhouse.
And the monkeys. If you didn't even play it long enough to see the monkeys... You didn't play it for long at all.
Paleo Pines was a game I really, really wanted to love. And it has some really nice mechanics, and I did have fun meeting new Dino’s and exploring with them. But as soon as I saw it in context with your point, I had to agree with it all. This game has a lot more potential than it managed to live up to. I had my fun, but I didn’t finish it, and I doubt I ever will.
I agree with most of your points, although I think it's important to adjust your expectations and critical thoughts when it comes to certain indie games due to the rise of solo devs. You specifically brought up Mail Time; while it is fair to say some mechanics are rough, the entire game was created by literally one person. No matter how amazing that solo dev is, their game will not be as polished as a team of developers with a larger budget and longer development time (barring VERY few exceptions). Information like this should be vital to game reviews, as a 7/10 for an indie title and a 7/10 for a AAA game can look very different, but of course they will, their production is so vastly opposite to one another.
I agree ! I was really hoping he wasn’t going to target mail time. Yeah it can be a little clunky but it was developed by one person like you said, and it was originally a project for her university. So all in all I think she did a fairly good job for the time she had and did by herself. I find the game fun personally. But I agree so much that so many game are lacking these days (I’m sorry but animal crossing has gone down the toilet new leaf was the best iteration) and unfortunately Nintendo is too lazy to actually add much substance to ac or even quality of life features ( in acnh bulk crafting, bulk buying from able sisters etc.) so much is missing in the gaming industry and it’s not really an excuse for aaa company’s (like I feel like mail time can get much more leeway) sorry for rambling more less just to say I agree.
Just to fight my corner a little, I played the game in full and I did know it's back story, and also said this is easily the least offensive, mainly because there is room to grade on a curve for this reason. But equally, you have to look at something for what it is as a developer and ask, is this the best possible version of what it was trying to be, and while some concessions can be made for solo devs, you need to call it as it is sometimes.
Also FYI, taking off the critic hat, I really did like Mail Time and would die for Soks :P
I actually thinks it's really a bad idea to do this. Let's face it people who watch reviews don't care about weather a game is developed by one person or 300 people. Especially if they are paying their hard earned money for it. Just because a game is a Indie developed game doesn't mean we should take that into account when reviewing. You can mention that it's an accomplishment to make a game by yourself but that shouldn't effect whether you tell your viewership weather or not it's worth the money.
you know indie games aren’t immune to being criticized right? what you want people to do is consoom product
I listened to reviews by a TH-cam crazy gamer in 2023. Some games got high reviews at the time of release. But end of year, same games were “not recommended” or “worst games”. Very disillusioning. I’m not really listening to that reviewer now. All the hype, then later the truth? Not sure. I do look to good reviewers to be honest about the down sides of a game. This gets really important for the Switch console. It’s had so many problems due to aging hardware. Honest reviews save those owners from wasting money and investing time and passion into a deeply frustrating game.
My understanding of Metacritic scores is that they're skewed to the point that low scores are basically non-existent. My understanding is that scores in the 70s are middling or mediocre games. Whether the 70s should be the range for these mediocre games is another question, but I don't think the issue there is necessarily a lack of integrity, but rather, the inherent flaws in a numerical scoring system.
Good point. I think there is indeed a ratings inflation involved. Perhaps that can at least partly explain why it's often that reviewers' score and users' score differ with quite a lot, and it's often the users' score that is lower. Perhaps regular gamers employ the whole scale 1-10 instead of 5-10 which reviewers tend to do.
I would slightly defend the reviewers out there (at least the good, authentic ones) by saying that most games out there tend to be 6's and 7's. But yes, a lot of publications, especially the ones you would never go to for a review (TheGamer, ScreenRant, GamingBible etc) just keep it in the 6-10 range unless they smell blood, and in that case, it's a 1 because that's just as trendy.
I just last year gave my highest and lowest review scores in my career, along with plenty of 4's and 5's along the way, so know that I am still using the full review score spectrum haha
@@indiegameculture1 And I definitely appreciate your reviews for that! I think if you're just using the upper half of the scale for everything but an abysmal game, it completely devalues the numeric scale. :)
I have a love hate relationship with "Sky: children of the light". That game has a lot of potential but has a lot of problems and I tried to express my criticism, but community dismisses and just commenting "you should be thankful"
What kind of problems make you feel hate? I really want to know. 🥺
Have you tried giving feedback to the devs? TGC kind of open to it more than others
The Sky is pretty sure has a lot to improve right now, and TGC are improving the game. This process is not fast, and our feedback to them helps as well
@AC_Yara for 3 years I been writing feedback to them with 0 outcome. If you are not IOS player you are fucked with glitches, and crashing. I wrote a separate email to them about game freezing after 2 hours and their response was "android is hard to manage" why are they releasing the game to other platforms if they couldn't handle 2 at once. Android players have an inside joke about how TGC forgets us.
After Aurora season Beta player noticing that most glitches that we reporting only getting fixed after it releases on live version. they started to ignore issues and rushing content.
The fanbase is so tone deaf because they don't allow criticism, and their mentality is "don't like it don't play it"
On official discord I got KMS messages because I was critiquing how TGC after 5 years haven't fixed krills (or even tried to fix them)
Every update needs to have some glich that effects people's play time. (How the hell did they manage to make a glich were if player goes to wind path loses seasonal candles??? And it got fixed after 3 updates)
The game dosen't feel improved a lot. Compared to other open world games you can feel the improvement from first location to last location releases.
Sky as a idea is amazing but execution is not great
Didn’t like that rock creature myself. But as a character designer artist & game dev it reminds me my opinion is that character designs are extremely important, and the folk who argue "only the gameplay matters" are being disingenuous. Yes I agree good unique gameplay is very important, and games shouldn't get away with being bad. However end of the day it is the characters & stories that are usually most memorable to folks, and like them I need fun characters to love. For ref despite Sonic fans always arguing over the gameplay ideas for the series, regardless it is the characters that draw in fans the most, they don't buy the toys or read the comics because of merely the game... which is how Sonic survives so many subpar games across time.
I tried so many cozy game demos over the past year and I don’t think a single one actually held my interest. It really does feel like they’re just slapping the Ghibli vibe on anything and hoping it’ll sell.
The thing is... a 7-8 score has been "buy only if you have no other option" for a while.. it has to be over 8, close to 8.5 if it's a "you should check this out" and close to 9 or higher if "you need to play this"... and that's a bit of an issue cause that means 1-6 is "don't play" and 6-7 is basically "bad, play at your own risk"... so... 1-5 is basically meaningless... turning the scale into a 1-5, with 7.5 being a 2.5...
A lot of these games don't aim for longevity. They don't try to make a beloved game with fans still crazy about it 6 years later and I wish they would. I wish they'd think about how streamable the game is, exactly WHAT the community can connect over and maybe even disagree over, whether something will require long term goals. If they'd consider the speedrunners, just overall have the community in mind they'd success far more because both Stardew and ACNH have long term players because of community, streamability, speedruns, etc. The games that have no stream value in today's age will also not bring in new players as much or maintain a player base over time.
I absolutely agree with all of this. I just handed in my review for Bandle Tale, and I found it so underwhelming and clunky. And yet, it's got a 75 on Metacritic. I write for a small website where we don't use point values, so I didn't give it a ranking, but I ended my review saying that you might like it if you wanted to see League characters in a different environment, and otherwise to wait for QoL changes. And yet, most publications are giving it good to great scores! I am flabbergasted and this video embodies everything I wanted to say!!
This happens to me at least once a month, and that's being generous.
you're telling a lot of truths here, I did like Ori, but Tunic should have won.
Thank you, i'm so skeptical of cute game's review for this reason right now, but so many of them are also made by people with no interest in what the game is trying to achieve and are way too harsh. hard man
I think a lot of developers are jumping on the cozy gaming trend just because it’s a trend. There have been some good new ones, but there have also been some pretty disappointing ones recently 👀
I’m currently obsessed with Palia and I think some of the reason why it works is because the characters are more well developed. Compared to Paleo Pines and Everdream Valley which were very clunky and lacked any depth 😕
Yeah unfortunately this happens a lot in the industry and we don't really have many trend setters compared to trend chasers.
I felt cheated sometimes since I play a lot of cozy games. One thing I hate the most is labelling a game a cozy game even though it might not be thoroughly cozy. For example: Dave the Diver. This one really hurt me because I liked the game. The main storyline was clunky and the sudden boss battles really ruined the cozy vibe real quick. I hadn't rage quit when playing games for a long time until I failed to escape a boss in Dave the Diver five times in a row. I bought the game for cozy gaming, but no, they decided to throw in some pretty hard battles. I like battles, sure, but not in my cozy gaming time. Another game that disappointed me recently is Coral Island, it's just... disappointing despite the rave reviews. This one has a massive quality issue. As you said in the end, I just hope I can trust reviewers. When I voiced my criticism about a popular cozy game, the fans would instead jest and call me a troll even though I was being serious, I said it because I wanted the game to improve, especially if the game was still in early access. I since learnt that I must dig through negative reviews just to see more honest reviews because otherwise I will only know the game on a surface level. Honestly, at this point, I will trust TES: Oblivion as a cozy game more than other games labelled as cozy game.
Nintendo ia the only company I know that still makes video games.
Games that charming and FUN.
Games that remember what gaming meant to us as kids.
I dog on Nintendont a lot, but I respext them too 😊
Really great video. I spent years being a game reviewer and what I saw happening back in 2008 then it was paid reviews. I knew then we'd end up, just where we are going. I refused to do paid reviews and gave harsh criticism where it was due. When you can't be bought, at least back in the day, companies who wanted to make a profit would avoid you. And companies who wanted quality would come to us, knowing we'd give it to them straight. I fully take credit for the success of Cities Skylines (the original) as Paradox sent us horrible game after horrible game and took all the hits we gave until they gave us Magicka. We gave that one pretty high marks and then came Cities...same.
Too many reviewers popped up just so they could brag about getting early access to games or into conventions like the now dead E3. Toward the end all you had to have was a blog with one post to get in. When I first came in 2005, you had to have an extensive amount of articles (pre-dates TH-cam, of course) and a business license and cards to boot. They knew you were the for real deal. I fully agree with everything you said, just sharing the piece of history I have of how we got here. Sadly folks that are reviewing games, a good portion, don't know HOW to review a game. They vote on what they like, not looking at it's flaws alongside it's good qualities. The more they give some games undeserving praise, the worse it'll get. I'm now moving more dev side and working on a cozy game and I know I simply cannot throw something together. Hoping I can make something that I and players will love. Not just because it's 'cute' but because it's good. Ya'll pray for a sista, lol. Again great video, subbed!
Authenticity just doesn't cut it anymore, unless you become some sort of defector media brand like SecondWind and make that your USP. It's just about being there first and, often, being the most controversial.
I've watched the fall from inside the city walls too, and I get that it's such an accessible and fun media type that anyone could cover games, but the key difference is, that not everyone can be a games 'Journalist'.
This is why content mills train writers to write their way, strip them of all their quirks and individuality, and when they are eventually cast out on their arse, they don't know how to write with any passion or flair anymore.
Our place always has, and will always be somewhere that accommodates those kind of writers, but it ain't the profitable way, I assure you lol
@@indiegameculture1 Amen. I use to and still do get the strangest looks when I wax poetic about things in games like water or how the lighting looks, or how light is STILL used to guide players through games. Games have evoked tears (Legend of Zelda, this last one, brought me to tears in the opening credits), delighted, charmed and comforted me. To be a game journalist, you have to be more than a gamer. You have to be in love with them.
I would not consider Outer Wilds a cozy game. The time crunch is real
I've stopped trusting many of the big cozy game TH-camrs, they love many of the big games just because they're "cute" despite lacking gameplay. I always look for gameplay videos before buying now, I've been burnt a few times by really lacklustre games.
Good video, interesting discussion. Regarding the game awards: Alanah Pearce posted a video that had some insights about the process, based on her past experience as a game journalist. Her broader point was that these awards are not necessarily authoritative or conclusive judgments on “the objective best” in each category. One of her observations is that the voters are literally from all over the world. So, their votes inevitably will be skewed by games that got more or less coverage in their region. In other words, there is some element of a “popularity contest” that is unavoidable here.
Regarding your general thesis: I probably am mostly in agreement. With that said, I can easily see why others might have a different view. Personally, my enjoyment of a game is usually tied to its mechanics, but there are others whose enjoyment might be more driven by Aesthetics, music, narrative, themes, etc. Who am I to say they are wrong, really. In the end, each of us responds to different things.
Very thoughtful discussion. Thanks for the video!
Where that he'll has this high production hight cuality channel came from?
I think something reviewers often miss is telling their audience the reasons for liking or disliking a game. This is hugely informative to the audience to know that a high score is given for the music or a low score is given because of the graphics. That way someone for whom music is very important when they play games, they can better evaluate the reviews and scores. As you say, people draw enjoyment of games for different reasons. For me, music (and sound design) is very important, narrative too, and especially important is emotion. Didn't I cry my eyes out at least once during the gameplay, it wasn't a very good game. :) I'm joking, but for narrative games I want to feel something.
I recently finished Cyberpunk 2077 and had to take breaks because it was so emotionally intense. Sound design was also top-notch. So naturally, I absolutely loved the game. Perhaps I would have enjoyed it even without those intense feelings and the awesome sound design, but most likely not as much. Someone else who might focus on mechanics, graphics or something else maybe strongly disliked that game, but if reviewers don't communicate why they like or dislike the game, gamers will be disappointed when they don't like a supposedly great game, or miss out on a supposedly poor game that would reveal itself to be very enjoyable.
In the end, reviews are just opinions. But they aren't always treated that way. And it sucks that some publishers force game studios to lay off staff because of a lower Metacritic score than expected.
I don't consider myself a traditional reviewer because I don't answer to anyone or have an agenda to push. But outside of myself, it's just a mix of different things. Deadline pressures meaning the reviewers play the game for a handful of hours and then often lie about their overall experience by using the press kits provided to fill in the blanks. The fact that most outlets won't give a low score and go against the curve unless they are absolutely sure it's financially a good idea. And of course, a lot of games journalists are either AI or people that don't play games these days.
It's a sad state of affairs, but the big outlets get the eyeballs, and Google's updates are only making that more so. So what can we do as indie media...
@@oliver_twistor Great points. Thanks for the reply.
I have similar thoughts regarding the utility of game reviews (perhaps media reviews in general). The “overall score” might shed some light on whether the reviewer felt good, mixed, or bad about the experience as a whole. But I think the more granular comments (when provided) are often more useful.
More broadly, I tend to read reviews as though they are explicitly contextualized as one person’s inevitably subjective experience. That still can have value, but it’s important to consider whether the person likes that sort of game, might be easily frustrated (or bored), has strong feeling for or against certain themes and tropes, etc. And much of that can be inaccessible to most readers, unless you’re very familiar with a given reviewer! And even then, we all have mood, can get burned out of certain styles and forms, etc.
@@indiegameculture1 I suspect you are completely on-target about the pernicious effects of harvesting clicks. It doesn’t necessarily reward nuance!
It is not just cosy games.
I have seen so many good titles literally fall apart because of producers.
They ruined the music market creating the boring and forced pop culture that we have right now and it is now happening with the gaming industry.
But in al this, at least artists now have ways now to stay independent and build out their community over the socials. It is not easy. But worth it in the long run.
We will recover from the shark bites.
I absolutely adored Paleo Pines because I love dinosaurs but I absolutely have to agree, it just didnt live up to the hype. I will forever love it and it will forever be something I can go back to when I just want to play super casual without much thought process but after a point theres really not much left to do in the game besides that. Ive also steered away from quite a few 'cozy' games just because I saw reviews for them on Reddit. It feels like a weird time to be alive to get a more accurate review of a game on Reddit than an actual review site XD.
something i've noticed in the cozy gaming sphere on youtube is that (a lot of) the channels known for covering cozy games are so confident in the analysis of "cute = quality" that they frequently talk about upcoming games as if they've already been released - e.g. "top 10 MUST BUY cozy games for [month in the future]" where they just have this bizarre confidence in the quality of something that isn't out yet. tbh if i'm being especially cynical i don't even think it's the youtubers' own personal confidence in the games, more like their assuredness that their audiences will be drawn in by the cuteness of a game's art style/aesthetic/whatever. the two games that really hammered this home for me and broke my trust in any ~cozy gaming youtubers~ were potion permit and lonesome village: potion permit is largely broken on ps4/ps5 with scummy devs straight up ignoring anyone commenting on this on their discord (and the parts of the game that did actually work were... hysterically bad), and lonesome village was probably the most soulless, charmless, joyless piece of garbage i've ever played. the fact that both of these got persistent praise all over cozy gaming youtube still makes me genuinely angry lmao
I love cozy games, but yes it is a problem that these games have a good idea, but the quality isn't always there. Last year, I played Mineko's Night Market, and I loved the concept, but there were so many bugs including game-breaking ones. Then you have Fae Farm, which was quite polished, but the game lacked depth especially with the NPCs and I felt like I was grinding the whole time to complete the quests. I also played Fall of Porcupine, and the story and world were lacking, and I just played Mail Time last night, and I agree the controls were clunky, and it is just one big fetch quest.
Indie devs are mostly led by passion. But in order to bring that passion to life, the reality is we need money. Not even to spend on tools or assets but just to spend on food, gas, rent and everything that makes it so we can focus our attention on the game.
You made a great point that I think applies to all games. Without proper critiques and consumer standards of buying, games are just pumped out with the same formula over and over. Nintendo is prime example. They could slap Mario's face on sh*t and sell it for millions. Consumers are they key to quality. If consumers only consumed quality then people will be forced to produce quality.
As for reviews. I am banned from reviewing on Amazon for a reason they never told me. Which is odd since I only reviewed movies and made sure I was fair but not offensive. Then I find out they pay people to review their stuff. Made it a job basically. Censorship and bribes make it so you can't trust any review or critique these days.
I agree with the vast majority of this video, but I do disagree with one very simple concept: the idea that indie games should be graded on a curve. Not because I think they should get buried beneath AAA games in reviews, but because of the opposite: a lot of AAA games are bloated to the point of actually being pretty middling experiences, whereas indie games are often more focused in both concept and execution. Sure, you’re not going to find an indie equivalent of Red Dead Redemption, but you do find many shorter experiences with heartfelt stories and clever puzzles. No, you’re not going to find everything you want in a single indie game, but you are going to find some really solid, short bursts of fun.
If anything, it’s less about grading indie games on a curve and more about critiquing these bloated, overproduced AAA titles that lack focus and good pacing because of the thousands of side quests they’re bursting at the seams with. Oftentimes, they serve more as glorified time wasters than meaningful, enjoyable experiences. That’s where we really need to change our focus.
I’m still not excusing lazy game design by indie developers trying to make a quick buck, just to be clear.
Just found your channel 2 videos ago - love it!
Welcome aboard!
As someone who isn’t a fan of cozy games, seeing people that are fans of that genre eating up any slop they’re given is sad
My idea of a cozy game is for spyro-esque 3d platformers to come back. I dont need simulator mini-games tucked into it, I dont need stardew valley rip-offs, I just need Hat In Time sort of stuff to become a thing again. There have been hundreds of farm sims and indie side scrollers in the past decade, PLEASE can we return to Spyro style lol
This is why i never purchase when first come out, & I put games on a wish list to keep an eye on them…watch others playing to get a better idea if I really like & or want it, plus after a while it will go on sale…. Cheaper always better…
Patient, Fiscally responsible gamers. We love to see it haha :)
You've got some interesting points, but I also think there's a natural balancing effect, especially on platforms like Steam. With more and more games coming out in a very small niche, it's getting harder for games to stand out. Being cute isn't enough. With that comes a need to advertise, which means many of these game are releasing demos, live streams, Early Access, review copies, and participating in Next Fest. And the delusional games are finding that the system is working against them.
Paleo Pines has a free demo available and I suspect a lot of people tried it and de-wishlisted the game. Why do I think this? Because the game's been out 6 months and is 40% off in the Spring Sale. Granted it's absurdly expensive even if it were a good game; nearly 3 times the price of Stardew Valley, which after 8 years is only 20% off. Regardless of base price, though, no successful game should be 40% off in its first year of release.
No that the big developers are jumping on the cozy bandwagon it's going to get even harder for the little ones to be noticed. That's bad for the true indie passion projects, but no worse than ever. The cash grabs will either be buried or forced to advertise their mediocrity.
Cozy Games are going through what happens to every major trend in essentially every entertainment industry sector. They rose to prominence, will be made until they stop being a big seller, and then will exit stage left. Instead of companies making games here and there or a genre and focusing on quality, instead something gets a laser focus and is milked until nothing comes out when they squeeze. Happened to middle grade fantasy after Harry Potter, happened to Vampires after Twilight, Happened to dystopia after The Hunger Games. It's a long standing market trend.
The feeling of the game is definetely important. After all, people who look for cozy games usually don't seek the mental stimulation. Just this past week I spent over 20 hours in a game's DEMO - yes, it had little content, but it was so serene and gorgeous and I just walked around to look at the pretty surroundings while thinking about work stuff. The museum in ACNH is also extremely cozy to walk around, even though it has zero gameplay.
Despite that, I still don't like many cozy games. Because many of them are actually bad at both being cozy and being good games. "Cozy" doesn't mean you will enjoy repeating boring quests and minigames. It's opposite - being stuck with a pointless fechquest of craftquest with no story behind it ruins the coziness of the game.
NGL I roll my eyes every time something is described as "cozy". The cozy games description smacks of catering to Twitch streamers with way too many plushies in their room and talking in a low "chill" voice to support their "chill vibes" stream. Totally agree that the substance and style is somewhat lacking in these kinds of games. Besides boring design, the worst sin is making a game that is just boring to play.
Ten point scales are too big for entirely subjective scoring. They're difficult even with highly defined scoring. Working on process risk assessments for manufacturing, the number of times I've seen people quibble over six versus seven is ridiculous. A five point scale is the most any subjective measurement should have, and if you've ever hovered over "somewhat agree" versus "agree" then you know that isn't entirely straightforward either.
Just wanted to say thanks for your guide for games like Spiritfarer. I’d never seen Afterparty recommended but I went to pick that up along with Mutazione and Night in the Woods
I hope you see gameplay of afterparty before getting it. I got it and it was a lot slower then I thought, because my expectation of it was based on a clip and not gameplay :)
I hope you enjoy what you decided to get :)
No problem. Glad to be of service!
ok I will take no paleo pines slander! jk, your points are valid, but I love that game. I totally agree with the overall message of this video and you pinpointed something I couldn't put my finger on when I was so disappointed with Spirittea.
I know the people that made Paleo Pines (they are from the same country as I am) so believe me when I say, I'm not speaking out of turn there, but glad you liked it :)
Couldn't agree more. As a cozy gaming fan, these are all on point..
Eastward was like this for me. Looked super cool. But hours in I realized it isn't getting any better than meh.
💖💗💓💯👏 Yeah, I’ve quit playing most cozy games. Seems like a waste of time and money. I passed on Paleo Pines, and glad I did.
I am impressed with your junimo tattoo! Also, I hated SpiriTea. You nailed it when you described it as unintuitive. I loved Roots of Pacha and Moonstone Island.
Just gonna paste a comment I made in a thread below.
I'd even say a game like Sea of Stars can contend for being a 'cozy game' even though on paper, it wouldn't come across as one when described. I think art direction/music and basically anything that contributes to an overall atmosphere is a big factor for making a cozy game. The problem here is, if a cozy game is 'only' those things. Its like a great packaging but there needs to be an actual gift to wrap it.
Why do people play pixelated games full screen instead of in a teeny tiny window that matches the number of pixels ?
The long dark is something i would consider q cozy game. But its not cute. Its bleak amd depressing but calm.
So maybe it doesn't fall under your definition.
Kena was such a winner it's why I watched your video 😂❤
Hey, I get you. It wasn't a bad game, and it was super pretty. I just did not think it was on par with the others. Aside from Cult of the Lamb.
Same thing happened to me with Spirit Tea 😭 I actually did research this time to see if the game was well optimized for the switch and at first every site said yes. I bought it and now regret it, had so many issues that I had to install Reddit again to ask how to proceed in certain tasks. I found it cozy but eventually I left it cause it started to feel boring. Now I’ll just wait at least 2 months to by a cozy game instead of getting it on the week of launch 😔
11:11 which game is that with the girl and the dog/cat ?
Spiritfarer :)
I was that lone kid in everybody's ekenentary school who wasn't interested in dinosaurs. I always felt weird about it, but it ended up paying off for me because I didn't buy Paleo Pines. 😅
very good points!
"raccoon who runs his own logging mill"
Me: but wouldnt a beaver be more practical? 🤔
In all seriousness, i was recently told on my channel (not this one) i wasnt playing a cozy game cozy enough bc i was basically trying to hit the game objectives. 😂
I can't argue with the logic. Maybe you have a future in indie game development hahaha
My impression:
- Cozy games are important to you.
- Years ago cozy games were much more nieche and indie, which often meant that the developers (could) put their hearts into it and make sure they not only looked cozy but also felt cozy, part of which meant quality
- Now cozy games are not so nieche anymore and more companies see there is money to be made. Ergo, it's about making money now not about making good games. So nieche games go the same way as most of the industry and good games of the genre are rarer.
There is nothing to be done here, at least I have no ideas...
Yeah this happens to every genre eventually. I will say it makes it pretty easy to weed out the games that aren't as worth playing
I fell for the cute with the game ONI : Road to be the Mightiest Oni, an absolute piece of crap, and yet still a 6/10 on steam. The excessively positive reviews on MC are laughable.
Eyyyy we have the same TV remote
I agree with the gist of the video, though I think you're barely scratching the surface of the problems with reviews, marketing, and publishers.
I've got one big disagreement though, that Spirittea game looked ugly as hell! Its look was absolutely nowhere near the quality of a Ghilbli movie or of Stardew Valley, the incumbent cozy king.
I think it has a certain charm to it. If you grew up in an era where Earthbound was a thing, then there's a certain amount of nostalgia attached to that.
agreed
I like cats and your video
I also like cats, and your comment, thank you!
OMGTHANK YOY
No, thank you!
Hmm
>practically one-upped legend of zelda in terms of top-down rpg adventure design
Im sorry, but Zelda isn't an rpg, and it never was
And I can't agree with the topic in general - the title says "Cozy Games are Becoming a Problem", but it's not Cozy Games that are a problem. Consumers are.
You were the one making a tattoo of generic cute pixel-art character, you were the one buying cute plushie based on a quite generic looking character.
It's not about Cozy Games, it's about consumers' standards. And you clearly are aware of that, as you mentioned those basic ideas with "another anthropomorphic animal character doing some cute thing" a couple of times. You know that, but you do the very same thing that allows this whole business model to stay afloat - why bother working the idea through, if one may just make a game about cute koala working in a eucalypt shop, make tons of stickers, plushies and other merch, and just sell it?
Once gamers raise their standards and stop falling for another cheap (yet exceptionally cute and cozy!) product, developers won't be able to just live off of the half-assed games, and will be forced to really put their hearts and souls into it. But why bother now, if you can totally work on visuals a bit, steal stardew/ghibli/undertale/mother look, and just work on those steam wishlists. Because that's what people need now.
I am over first impression game reviews all the cozy game reviewers on TH-cam are just shills
I usually avoid indie games like the plague for their overhyped overrated BS
Surely that's a bit reductive... Yes, there is a trend of Indies becoming a little more corporate, and by the books, as I've touched on, but Indies at their best are wonderful examples of what gaming should be.
Gamers to triple A games: It's not all about the graphics!
Gamers to Indie cozy game: Holy shit, it looks cute! Take all the money!
Triple A publishers:
if you think about it most of the cozy game consumers are girls and kids so its natural they would like cute animal
I believe that the reason cozy gamers are or seem like such an enticing target is that pretty much anyone who's stressed (so literally every living person) has a good chance of becoming one and there's a much bigger chance of said gamers being very casual or not gamers at all, at least not in the hardcore sense that goes after specs and dozens upon dozens of reviews before spending a single penny and/or have a lower repertoire of games to back their views
As a result, they're people who are more prone to judge games at face value, not notice shallow gameplay and overall just easier to manipulate or at least seem like they are and predatory practices love those qualities in a consumer