Thanks for watching! As mentioned in the intro you can pick up my in depth support guides (written entirely by me) at the link below! metafy.gg/league-of-legends/courses
League players must have gotten coaching from a Dota player. Im an old Dota player myself and every game is like this for us because our side lane towers arent the same distance away from where the creeps meet. We put our carry player at the sidelane tower closest to the lane and the enemy puts something like a Ksante or a Teemo to play gurellia warfare and make the carries farming life difficult. We offlaners are the pests destroying farmers crops and thats our job. Its the supports job to keep us at bay with the threat of death otherwise we would steamroll a lv1 carry hero. League in comparison doesnt allow tanks to be this strong and I honestly think its just that your guys Adc scaling isnt good enough to deal damage to stat monsters like we have in Dota. To my eye what league players call Tank meta is really just a weak season for carry role. You can make tanks strong but you also have to make Adcs scale harder to match them and play front to back
@@ali-by1ek Step 1) NEVER afk in mid lane as five. Its the same as ribbing your own teammates and then trying to bash your head against the enemies like youl somehow win when noone on your team is farmed Step 2) Farming under turret or wave clearing is different for every champ and needs to be practiced. Before you queue, go into practice tool, pick THE champ you wanna play, and teleport from lane to lane to practice. Step 3) BE ALIVE. If there are minions coming your way, you cant really leave the lane and you cant afford to die. Your team should know to respect this as well. The only time you fight instead of taking your wave, is if your GARUNTEED to win the fight OR, your pretty sure you win and you get an objective out of it. A Dragon, a Tower, a Baron.
Thanks mate, I enjoy making these type videos the most, the passion for the high level strategy I have from my pro play days still burns strong haha. It's just hard to make these type of videos do well on TH-cam without a really great idea I feel
So wouldn’t the solution to the lane swaps be to sync the timers of the void grubs and the dragon? As mentioned in your example, gnar slow pushed top, which means he will be available to help with the grubs if it spawns at 5 min.
According to Keria's AAR stream for Worlds six grubs is overpowered, so it made everyone move constantly to get an upper hand in early objective fights. He also said while they struggled in summer because of lane swapping he feels like his team became one of the best in the tactic in the final stages of Worlds. I won't be surprised if this was possible thanks to the 🐐 who was playing an RTS in a game of LOL. Faker's POV screen reminds me of BoxeR's unending wave of dropship harassments against Zerg players in SC1 esports games. 20 years and two video games later SKT is still the king of RTS.😅
Pro Players are starting to find exploits in league's fundamentals. Is gonna be very hard for riot to fix this without drastically changing the game's basics.
@@skrattaoppar9753 The key difference is that you can do some wanky lane shit even in solo q in Dota an be succesfull with that giving you advantages by manipulating the Waves. Leagues lane swap Strats tho are 100% team dependent and are useless in a random Match.
Without fully understanding how exactly this was set up or why it was suddenly revived, I knew that aside from the tougher matchups, it had something to do with the changes made to the grub spawning timer in previous patches. I suspected that the one-minute discrepancy was a significant factor in securing all possible objectives. However, the idea that the Jungler is forced to go for a dive on the 3rd and 4th wave was new to me.
So basically, the lane swap mitigates a strong bot lane matchup, accelerates your Jungler, feeds into low resource top laners efficiency while also reducing their time to lane against lane centric champions? I’m not gonna lie this sounds like it was almost exclusively made as a result of T1 at last worlds. They specialized in strong top counter picks and varied bot lane double ranged picks. This mitigates a player like Zeus’ ability to win lane, a jungler like Oner’s ability to impact the early game, and Guma/Keria’s ability to pressure out the lane to secure early dragons. It makes sense that Gen G consistently beats T1, their entire style counters everything T1 likes to do
Thing is this variation of laneswap where the Top laner lanes with ADC while the Support soaks exp bot/mid then top tps bot was started by T1. They didn't start the laneswap, but this variation was started by them. In their first game vs TES they used laneswap to gain early advantage. Every swap they made netted them gold
@@Catffeine_Cafe To be fair doesn't help that Guma and Faker are way better than all other Adc/Mids. Strategy won't work when you are outright gapped...
Another thing you didn't touch on, is that tower plates *stay* until 14:00, meaning the team the initiated the lane swap *still has time* to try and get the enemy's bot tower plates before the plates fall off for good (e.g after playing for both 1st spawn neutral objectives), which means they don't necessarily give away the potential enemy bot tower plates for doing the swap either.
that likely wont happen since if you're using laneswap as a way for avoid rough matchups in botlane/toplane, its very unlikely that those sidelanes are able to take plates on their own after the initial swap ends and become standard matchups
@@omlet_0024 It's not a guarantee obviously, but it means that if the laneswap worked you can potentially get (extra) gold lead from the plates. After all if your top lane and jungle come ahead after the laneswap the bottom lane will quickly go from disadvantageous matchup to gank central.
One thing i'd have loved added in this video is what's actually the Win Rate on the teams that lane swapped on worlds, because i heard it was actually pretty bad, interestingly enough! Of course if you end up winning or losing the game it has a lot to do with more than just a lane swap, and you can argue that if you didn't lane swap in the games you lost, you'd have lost even harder... But anyways it's a nice detail to analyse! I heard the WR was like 30% or even lower... Surprising!
Lanes will lose their identities. Many champions go to other lanes to counter other champions. They're better than traditional laners, and switching lanes seems to make the matchups easier or doable. Kind of like DotA2
@PinkeySuavo in SoloQ especially, this can't be done because you won't have coordination. Adding voice-chat would be a problem because it forces everyone in the team to have microphone, and if they don't they'll just x9 the player without mic, let's not mention the devious things they say
6:46 this may not be the best example, since peanut did not have to die if they juggled turrent aggro better. If peanut lived, he can still farm geng's bot jg and go even with canyon
Thanks for this, I was watching worlds and wondering this the entire time. Watching pro play is like a completely different game to SoloQ, even high elo SoloQ
So, the counter to the whole strategy is to just mirror the lane-swap. If their botlane goes top, then your botlane goes top as well. Also, would require heavy scouting/invading before the first wave arrives, so that you can make sure that your lane assignments are in order in time.
You can also draft with these things in mind. DotA went through a phase where lanes were 3-1-1 (jungle isnt a thing in pro dota), and in the drafting phase you can choose to draft a team based on whether you want to try to win the 3v3 or you can pick someone that is good at surviving 1v3 lanes and pick a trio that is very good at bullying 3v1. If you pick a good comp that is good at bullying 3v1 and the opponent picks a champ defensive champ with survivability and low offense because they're expecting a 3v1, you can move one of the tri-lane champs to other lanes so that the lanes become 2v1/2v1/1v3 and you end up hard crushing 2 of 3 lanes for free
Because they don't know lmao... and by then it s too late they have to fight for wave. Sometimes they try to predict and counter swapping only to get re-countered (going in to regular lanes)
@@fedeonio555 But if you just guess… And they guess. Either you’re top and they’re not, and you get shelly and drag. Or you’re top and they are… And you get to bully them and don’t guarantee that you lose shelly and drag. Soooo?
@@Reformed_Rat I’m not actually saying they guess. I’ve seen how stupidly deep they penetrate to get wards so they do know. I’m responding to the other guys comment that says they don’t know. What I’m saying is that there are 4 situations. 1. melee support lane swaps top 2. Both lane swap top 3. Double ranged lane swaps top 4. No lane swap. In 2 & 4 melee support gets bullied In 3 double ranged gets dragon and shelly In 1 melee support gets dragon and shelly Why does the double ranged lane keep choosing their only shitty option?
The most enlightening video I've watched from you so far, up there with the T1 Bot tower video, your content is vital to prospecting pro league players. I'm going to try this out with my team if they're game.
I like this kind of pro macro analysis video! I disagree with reason 3 though: Sejuani diving bot was not mandatory. They thought it was a good play, but Sej could just have farmed and the game would be even (rather than behind, as mandatory suggests).
then there’s me walking into tri bush off spawn and immediately dying to invade as i think to myself i hope we don’t get invaded. strategy is a strange thing huh
You are highlighting worlds here, but the truth of the matter is that this has been happening for entire last year, riot did not buff tower protection top in anticipation of strategies for worlds, this is a strategy that has been played for the entire last year. GenG were the big pioneers of this and the LCK were the first, but after MSI just about every region has been looking at lane swaps
"Why do Korean teams do laneswap so much" As a non-expert I feel like it has something to do with a certain team and how its players, espcially the bot lane duo (cough cough Caitlyn Lux cough cough), brought upon an apocalypse to so many other teams in LCK 2024 Spring. SKT Wolf also admitted it recently in late October on an episode of Talkwave (feat. Bang, Ruler, and PraY). He said the line swap meta became popular partially because the 2v2 exchange in the bot lane became too toxic and aggressive. Why would you try to start an honest fight against an advantageous opponent and be crushed, when you could refine a set of moves that strategically reshuffles your forces on the map, partially - if not totally - denying the opponent's ability to get an upper hand in the first 5 to 10 minutes?
And yes, I was talking about the "greatest roster in LOL esports history" (according to Riot Games). In Worlds talents like Bin also deserve an honorable mention. Against players whose existance is already a game-breaking penalty it doesn't matter how much penalty the game stacks against you for swapping lanes. Pro players would embrace the game's penalty with open arms if they could prevent a) Bin shattering your top laner's skull with his staff over and over again, or b) see 40% of your team get blasted back to the fountain as a pair of pin cushions because of two psycopathic archers.
I think top and mid turret should remove reduction in first 5 mins so the team have range x2 vs range + melee can gamble and follow swap if other team try to swap. And x2 range like cait + lux win kaisa + nautilus, you can still take gold from turret shield. If is dose not work, fix the time big object appear later
Lane swaps are sooo boring and annoying to watch. The first few levels are often the most interesting to watch. I hope the fearless drafts next year spice up this game, because worlds 2024 has been the most boring tournament yet.
We haven’t quite seen it at worlds, but at ASCII or the NA/LATAM Academy tournaments, we have had 6 people laning top. Be ready for that XD th-cam.com/users/livefRswP03wIVY?t=15465&si=fZAez5sPs1lph8zi For reference. But in short, disappointed that teams have only accepted the swaps (1 layer deep) and no teams have anticipated the swaps and matched (2 layers deep), although we have had contests in topside jgls which would count as 2 layers deep before accepting swaps and tping this worlds. That said, 2 layers deep runs the risk of the enemy team going 3 layers deep (where they purposely stay bot when they should initiate and you went top thinking you’d match), which would make a fool out of a team (it happened in LEC 100% although they will deny it), so eastern teams especially are willing to commit to only 1 layer deep especially, as even if u were as the team getting swapped on to commit to 2 layers deep and potentially win the game, you are risking a 3rd layer swap when you already have a guaranteed opportunity at plates/dive. Imo tho teams should be more willing to try it, in the end it’s about xp and especially if you’re able to leverage a strong double ranged support matchup, considering there’s the added nuance that every game without failure so far with ranged vs melee has gone 1 layer deep, you can risk going 2 layers deep and attempt to leverage an xp advantage/dive over just a plating advantage/dive. Anyway we will see, I am personally only new to league of legends since last year and I was complaining to a friend why teams didn’t just laneswap to avoid hard matchups- before that worlds even and the whole double ranged meta started evolving (who would’ve known a simple laneswap would’ve killed T1), and it turns out they could’ve doneso the entire time, but narrow mindedness kicked in until I got heartbroken by FPX vs NiP (technically iG did it last year vs JDG but they lost that game in spring, but it was still a successful laneswap with a sion as well taking their own blue buff- denying Kanavi the invade while invading Kanavi’s topside), which made teams realise that it was actually a possibility the entire time, while unironically winning GenG an MSI (gets out of their worst flaws, early laning especially for Peyz and Lehends, imo worst bot lane duo out of the 4 eastern teams there, while getting them into mid game with solid XP and only a slight gold deficit). and we can start calling normal laning the 4th layer laneswap ;)
Lane swap happened in early season too but IIRC, it was solved by the "Lane swap ward". But the addition of grubs, their timer offset and more changes really helped bring it back. I don't have references for these sadly but you should be able to trace it just by looking through the lane swap ward.
Why even fight against this? Dota has had a variety of different laning positions over the years. I was a good solo top laner back when you would have 2 supports botlane for your carry. Nowadays it's 2 top, 2 bot, 1 mid, where your position 4 (the top support) plays a more active roaming role. If lane swapping is a strategy, then it is up to the players to find a counter strategy.
This is crazy unfortunately I don't have time to watch worlds. I hope it won't get too boring after a while and can't wait for the counter tactics for this
My guess is that if they matched, the double range bot lane would not be able to get plates in the first 5 minutes, where they are the strongest, so they could not snowball their advantage
As far as I understood it was actually the western teams to swap alot because they want to avoid the lane matchups against the better opponent. Haven't watched this video yet tho so I prob am wrong.
Every team has an incentive to do it. It was in fact an eastern team to start the trend last year with iG, but more recently NiP doing it in LPL spring opened Pandora’s box because NiP did it vs FPX, probably the hottest team on the planet back then and instantly everyone copied.
Well this is a new strategy, so I'd have to guess the teams haven't have enough practice with the counter strategy that's bound tobe even newer and didn't want to yolo first time strat in a worlds game.
how are they boring? they are causing more dives. more strategic diversity im draft and game they are unpredictable, they promote enemy teams invading level 1 they cause more action around the entire map. whats boring is laners afk farming for 15 minutes and riot trying to force the game to be played a specific way.
why lane swap is considered somehow new though? As you showed it was common in previous seasons, they just had to adapt to the turret passives and some other changes
He can't afford to fall behind or else he just falls off hard. His ult is the only econ part of his kit. The rest rely heavily on having the dps to even be a threat. He has no stuns and no reliable way to enter the backline, no dashes to survive ganks, w as his only survival tool, and gets destroyed by many top laners. His main point is to destroy Jax and Gnar, but Jax isn't going to be played in a lane anytime soon, and Gnar isn't really the most gold hungry champ out there, so Rumble has fallen out of favor now.
Great video that reminds me why sports have pro players commentating and why lol esports is dying among other things because they refuse to get pros in there consistently. I have been watching and they just react as if it were a random occurrence oh wow no swap this game ok let’s watch the game but of course there is an actual reason thanks for clarifying
even if you were to match the lane swap and get a wining matchup now the benefits of having a pushing lane and neutralised because you can't take plates. If you pick cait lux into idk kalista alistar you will probably win the push but then what, even if you dive you can't play for plates because of tower damage reduction and extend the lead.
@@JimJPoggersyou can still dive/attempt to zone from xp on the 4th wave crash, especially if tower wave jgling is rlly good. It’s just teams will be so much more out of practice
This shit is so cool and i have no idea why riot insists on absolutely gutting this emergent gameplay, i cant fathom any other esport or like valve reacting the same way with dota 2 trilane setups. it's stupid and beyond comprehension to me
It's about timer objectives ? first botlane go bot for drake, then they back and sap lanes, then they contest void or herald and the toplaner at botlane can TP in case of. imo
*The only way to remove this laneswap is to "label" the minions in their respective roles lets say within 5 - 8 mins in game. So basically, only the top laner can cs or hit the minions in the top lane and so in the other lanes...*
Damn, i guess i'm going against the grain here but i wish if you did less of these "pro play" videos and more videos on macro overall and how to view the map etc... Your "tempo lines" and "wave to wave macro" guides are imo, the best LoL guides on TH-cam (by far) and single handedly helped me go from high bronze to low plat in a few months. I will still be watching everything tho.
@@MrHarry37Who tho? Other than Coach Rogue and Coach Curtis, not many are giving actual really good content. The rest are just Skill Capped tier with the usual wave management and dont push without vision tips we know since season 6
putting T1 in the thumbnail next to the word "laneswapping" is bad faith since they are probably the worst korean team in laneswapping at worlds. also in ur video there wasnt even a clip of T1 doing it properly xd
Its almost a decade too late to be upset about clickbaiting. At least it wasn't a half-naked anime girl with all caps "YOU WON'T BELIEVE..." or something lol.
It's very simple, their botlaners are like top 20 and would risk getting stomped 2v2 giving the enemy team a win con, they just swap early to have one less disadvantage. Ignore all the strategy you talked about, its literally that simple.
Thanks for watching!
As mentioned in the intro you can pick up my in depth support guides (written entirely by me) at the link below!
metafy.gg/league-of-legends/courses
League players must have gotten coaching from a Dota player. Im an old Dota player myself and every game is like this for us because our side lane towers arent the same distance away from where the creeps meet. We put our carry player at the sidelane tower closest to the lane and the enemy puts something like a Ksante or a Teemo to play gurellia warfare and make the carries farming life difficult. We offlaners are the pests destroying farmers crops and thats our job. Its the supports job to keep us at bay with the threat of death otherwise we would steamroll a lv1 carry hero. League in comparison doesnt allow tanks to be this strong and I honestly think its just that your guys Adc scaling isnt good enough to deal damage to stat monsters like we have in Dota. To my eye what league players call Tank meta is really just a weak season for carry role. You can make tanks strong but you also have to make Adcs scale harder to match them and play front to back
Can you make a video to how farm 10cs per min ? Thanks you
@@ali-by1ek Step 1) NEVER afk in mid lane as five. Its the same as ribbing your own teammates and then trying to bash your head against the enemies like youl somehow win when noone on your team is farmed
Step 2) Farming under turret or wave clearing is different for every champ and needs to be practiced. Before you queue, go into practice tool, pick THE champ you wanna play, and teleport from lane to lane to practice.
Step 3) BE ALIVE. If there are minions coming your way, you cant really leave the lane and you cant afford to die. Your team should know to respect this as well. The only time you fight instead of taking your wave, is if your GARUNTEED to win the fight OR, your pretty sure you win and you get an objective out of it. A Dragon, a Tower, a Baron.
Please make more videos about the strategies the pro teams do. You are so underrated and I hope you will get the attention you deserve one day.
Thanks mate, I enjoy making these type videos the most, the passion for the high level strategy I have from my pro play days still burns strong haha.
It's just hard to make these type of videos do well on TH-cam without a really great idea I feel
@@CoachRogue this is top quality content lol. I love it
So wouldn’t the solution to the lane swaps be to sync the timers of the void grubs and the dragon? As mentioned in your example, gnar slow pushed top, which means he will be available to help with the grubs if it spawns at 5 min.
Yes! It's the most interesting strategy to learn about, and I don't know nearly enough to understand it on my own.
@@CoachRogueu've just been blessed with my energies
Damn... I knew about the support disadvantage and the whole top thing
But damn that slow push makes sense...
the double objective guarantee via slowpush is kinda crazy
According to Keria's AAR stream for Worlds six grubs is overpowered, so it made everyone move constantly to get an upper hand in early objective fights. He also said while they struggled in summer because of lane swapping he feels like his team became one of the best in the tactic in the final stages of Worlds. I won't be surprised if this was possible thanks to the 🐐 who was playing an RTS in a game of LOL. Faker's POV screen reminds me of BoxeR's unending wave of dropship harassments against Zerg players in SC1 esports games. 20 years and two video games later SKT is still the king of RTS.😅
Pro Players are starting to find exploits in league's fundamentals. Is gonna be very hard for riot to fix this without drastically changing the game's basics.
This is why Dota just embraced the chaos. The normal laning phase is almost non existent today and just expanded the jungle
@@skrattaoppar9753 The key difference is that you can do some wanky lane shit even in solo q in Dota an be succesfull with that giving you advantages by manipulating the Waves. Leagues lane swap Strats tho are 100% team dependent and are useless in a random Match.
@@ThomasDiesch that's the point my man, it's so different from release dota 2 even from w3 days
you could synchronize the spawn of the grubs and the first drake
@@MrInsdorwon’t work
Without fully understanding how exactly this was set up or why it was suddenly revived, I knew that aside from the tougher matchups, it had something to do with the changes made to the grub spawning timer in previous patches. I suspected that the one-minute discrepancy was a significant factor in securing all possible objectives. However, the idea that the Jungler is forced to go for a dive on the 3rd and 4th wave was new to me.
So basically, the lane swap mitigates a strong bot lane matchup, accelerates your Jungler, feeds into low resource top laners efficiency while also reducing their time to lane against lane centric champions? I’m not gonna lie this sounds like it was almost exclusively made as a result of T1 at last worlds. They specialized in strong top counter picks and varied bot lane double ranged picks. This mitigates a player like Zeus’ ability to win lane, a jungler like Oner’s ability to impact the early game, and Guma/Keria’s ability to pressure out the lane to secure early dragons. It makes sense that Gen G consistently beats T1, their entire style counters everything T1 likes to do
This comment didn't age well.
Yeah sure
Thing is this variation of laneswap where the Top laner lanes with ADC while the Support soaks exp bot/mid then top tps bot was started by T1. They didn't start the laneswap, but this variation was started by them. In their first game vs TES they used laneswap to gain early advantage. Every swap they made netted them gold
@@Catffeine_Cafe To be fair doesn't help that Guma and Faker are way better than all other Adc/Mids. Strategy won't work when you are outright gapped...
@@NousagiBratsasuga nousagi. Peko proud of u
Another thing you didn't touch on, is that tower plates *stay* until 14:00, meaning the team the initiated the lane swap *still has time* to try and get the enemy's bot tower plates before the plates fall off for good (e.g after playing for both 1st spawn neutral objectives), which means they don't necessarily give away the potential enemy bot tower plates for doing the swap either.
that likely wont happen since if you're using laneswap as a way for avoid rough matchups in botlane/toplane, its very unlikely that those sidelanes are able to take plates on their own after the initial swap ends and become standard matchups
@@omlet_0024 It's not a guarantee obviously, but it means that if the laneswap worked you can potentially get (extra) gold lead from the plates. After all if your top lane and jungle come ahead after the laneswap the bottom lane will quickly go from disadvantageous matchup to gank central.
THANK YOU! i was wondering why the lane swaps were sooooo prominent in this years worlds. Great info and things i didnt even know.
One thing i'd have loved added in this video is what's actually the Win Rate on the teams that lane swapped on worlds, because i heard it was actually pretty bad, interestingly enough! Of course if you end up winning or losing the game it has a lot to do with more than just a lane swap, and you can argue that if you didn't lane swap in the games you lost, you'd have lost even harder... But anyways it's a nice detail to analyse! I heard the WR was like 30% or even lower... Surprising!
holy heck
this is the type of analysis we need
Incredible! You are constantly putting out banger after banger videos. Thank you Coach Rogue
Lanes will lose their identities. Many champions go to other lanes to counter other champions. They're better than traditional laners, and switching lanes seems to make the matchups easier or doable. Kind of like DotA2
werent they sending bot lane into mid lane vs kassadin like 10 years ago already? lane swaps were always common
@PinkeySuavo in SoloQ especially, this can't be done because you won't have coordination. Adding voice-chat would be a problem because it forces everyone in the team to have microphone, and if they don't they'll just x9 the player without mic, let's not mention the devious things they say
@@i_saidmeow2469 ye solo Q its rare but rare or bigger premades it was common long time ago
6:46 this may not be the best example, since peanut did not have to die if they juggled turrent aggro better. If peanut lived, he can still farm geng's bot jg and go even with canyon
Thanks for this, I was watching worlds and wondering this the entire time. Watching pro play is like a completely different game to SoloQ, even high elo SoloQ
This was a great video. Thank you for making this.
This is super interesting and a nice breakdown
So, the counter to the whole strategy is to just mirror the lane-swap.
If their botlane goes top, then your botlane goes top as well.
Also, would require heavy scouting/invading before the first wave arrives, so that you can make sure that your lane assignments are in order in time.
You can also draft with these things in mind. DotA went through a phase where lanes were 3-1-1 (jungle isnt a thing in pro dota), and in the drafting phase you can choose to draft a team based on whether you want to try to win the 3v3 or you can pick someone that is good at surviving 1v3 lanes and pick a trio that is very good at bullying 3v1.
If you pick a good comp that is good at bullying 3v1 and the opponent picks a champ defensive champ with survivability and low offense because they're expecting a 3v1, you can move one of the tri-lane champs to other lanes so that the lanes become 2v1/2v1/1v3 and you end up hard crushing 2 of 3 lanes for free
Maybe riot had to fix like, if more champs are there,then minions health also should reduce,thereby reducing the stress on solo laner on duo champs
So why aren’t double ranged bot going top forcing a reverse swap so they can get drag and shelly?
Because they don't know lmao... and by then it s too late they have to fight for wave. Sometimes they try to predict and counter swapping only to get re-countered (going in to regular lanes)
@@fedeonio555
But if you just guess…
And they guess.
Either you’re top and they’re not, and you get shelly and drag.
Or you’re top and they are…
And you get to bully them and don’t guarantee that you lose shelly and drag.
Soooo?
@@Wemdiculous yeah just guess in highstakes game kyappa
@@Reformed_Rat I’m not actually saying they guess.
I’ve seen how stupidly deep they penetrate to get wards so they do know.
I’m responding to the other guys comment that says they don’t know.
What I’m saying is that there are 4 situations.
1. melee support lane swaps top
2. Both lane swap top
3. Double ranged lane swaps top
4. No lane swap.
In 2 & 4 melee support gets bullied
In 3 double ranged gets dragon and shelly
In 1 melee support gets dragon and shelly
Why does the double ranged lane keep choosing their only shitty option?
Great video I've always wondered why they do this.
This is an amazingly eye-opening video!!
Thank you , very understandable and straight to the point.
This is sick. Can't wait to try it and completely fail in Clash with my friends XD
Please do this more often. We want to be smart also haha
you are an amazing analyst and coach rogue. thank you
The most enlightening video I've watched from you so far, up there with the T1 Bot tower video, your content is vital to prospecting pro league players. I'm going to try this out with my team if they're game.
Thank you so much for this video!!! Brialliant one!!!
Im more amazed how good they are at farming
With all the lane swaps and fights
The insane realization that everyone can be a coach these days
For some reason i had to search your channel kinda hard through my subscribes to find u again, idk why (sorry for bad english, not my first language)
So i was accidently playing like a pro all this time not even noticing how good that strategy was?! Wow im busted
noticed this happening, now i know why!
Great explanation, but should use the mark tool to draw more often whats going on because watching the clips i dont realise you pointing at CS.
when fly quest tried to do this against genG and got countered by Nidalee pick and then didnt even ban her in the following games, fun times.
I like this kind of pro macro analysis video!
I disagree with reason 3 though: Sejuani diving bot was not mandatory. They thought it was a good play, but Sej could just have farmed and the game would be even (rather than behind, as mandatory suggests).
Great video, commenting for the algorithm.
then there’s me walking into tri bush off spawn and immediately dying to invade as i think to myself i hope we don’t get invaded. strategy is a strange thing huh
Ain't no way they are playing DotA 2 in League now
Bruh i wish I could tip you for this video, insane content. Definetly might hit you up for some coaching at my xmas break.
What happens when the bot dive succeeds as planned for the team that got swapped upon?
What a beast you are man great vid
I usually never comment, but I just wanted to say that you did a great job on this video.
Flyquest are the #1 team in NA at laneswaps, and it's not even close.
You are highlighting worlds here, but the truth of the matter is that this has been happening for entire last year, riot did not buff tower protection top in anticipation of strategies for worlds, this is a strategy that has been played for the entire last year. GenG were the big pioneers of this and the LCK were the first, but after MSI just about every region has been looking at lane swaps
Why aren’t enemies counter lane swapping so you have the 2v2 on toplane?
Nit that simple. They would react.
"Why do Korean teams do laneswap so much"
As a non-expert I feel like it has something to do with a certain team and how its players, espcially the bot lane duo (cough cough Caitlyn Lux cough cough), brought upon an apocalypse to so many other teams in LCK 2024 Spring. SKT Wolf also admitted it recently in late October on an episode of Talkwave (feat. Bang, Ruler, and PraY). He said the line swap meta became popular partially because the 2v2 exchange in the bot lane became too toxic and aggressive. Why would you try to start an honest fight against an advantageous opponent and be crushed, when you could refine a set of moves that strategically reshuffles your forces on the map, partially - if not totally - denying the opponent's ability to get an upper hand in the first 5 to 10 minutes?
And yes, I was talking about the "greatest roster in LOL esports history" (according to Riot Games). In Worlds talents like Bin also deserve an honorable mention. Against players whose existance is already a game-breaking penalty it doesn't matter how much penalty the game stacks against you for swapping lanes. Pro players would embrace the game's penalty with open arms if they could prevent a) Bin shattering your top laner's skull with his staff over and over again, or b) see 40% of your team get blasted back to the fountain as a pair of pin cushions because of two psycopathic archers.
This is great. I can’t wait to be cringe with my friends in casual draft games 🎉
I think top and mid turret should remove reduction in first 5 mins so the team have range x2 vs range + melee can gamble and follow swap if other team try to swap. And x2 range like cait + lux win kaisa + nautilus, you can still take gold from turret shield. If is dose not work, fix the time big object appear later
Funny how Riot add the Grubs to make top lane viable. Then in competitive, they bring the bot lane to the top XD.
Lane swaps are sooo boring and annoying to watch. The first few levels are often the most interesting to watch.
I hope the fearless drafts next year spice up this game, because worlds 2024 has been the most boring tournament yet.
What if they simply reset the respawn timer for grubs back to what it was when introduced, so both objectives spawn simultaneously?
So it sounds like grubs need to be adjusted to spawn at 5 minutes
We haven’t quite seen it at worlds, but at ASCII or the NA/LATAM Academy tournaments, we have had 6 people laning top. Be ready for that XD
th-cam.com/users/livefRswP03wIVY?t=15465&si=fZAez5sPs1lph8zi
For reference.
But in short, disappointed that teams have only accepted the swaps (1 layer deep) and no teams have anticipated the swaps and matched (2 layers deep), although we have had contests in topside jgls which would count as 2 layers deep before accepting swaps and tping this worlds.
That said, 2 layers deep runs the risk of the enemy team going 3 layers deep (where they purposely stay bot when they should initiate and you went top thinking you’d match), which would make a fool out of a team (it happened in LEC 100% although they will deny it), so eastern teams especially are willing to commit to only 1 layer deep especially, as even if u were as the team getting swapped on to commit to 2 layers deep and potentially win the game, you are risking a 3rd layer swap when you already have a guaranteed opportunity at plates/dive. Imo tho teams should be more willing to try it, in the end it’s about xp and especially if you’re able to leverage a strong double ranged support matchup, considering there’s the added nuance that every game without failure so far with ranged vs melee has gone 1 layer deep, you can risk going 2 layers deep and attempt to leverage an xp advantage/dive over just a plating advantage/dive.
Anyway we will see, I am personally only new to league of legends since last year and I was complaining to a friend why teams didn’t just laneswap to avoid hard matchups- before that worlds even and the whole double ranged meta started evolving (who would’ve known a simple laneswap would’ve killed T1), and it turns out they could’ve doneso the entire time, but narrow mindedness kicked in until I got heartbroken by FPX vs NiP (technically iG did it last year vs JDG but they lost that game in spring, but it was still a successful laneswap with a sion as well taking their own blue buff- denying Kanavi the invade while invading Kanavi’s topside), which made teams realise that it was actually a possibility the entire time, while unironically winning GenG an MSI (gets out of their worst flaws, early laning especially for Peyz and Lehends, imo worst bot lane duo out of the 4 eastern teams there, while getting them into mid game with solid XP and only a slight gold deficit). and we can start calling normal laning the 4th layer laneswap ;)
wdym 6 people laning top? what time in this video?
Lane swap happened in early season too but IIRC, it was solved by the "Lane swap ward". But the addition of grubs, their timer offset and more changes really helped bring it back. I don't have references for these sadly but you should be able to trace it just by looking through the lane swap ward.
@@PinkeySuavo it’s timestamped, but start of game 5.
Also happened today basically at start of game 3 LNG vs WBG
Why even fight against this? Dota has had a variety of different laning positions over the years. I was a good solo top laner back when you would have 2 supports botlane for your carry. Nowadays it's 2 top, 2 bot, 1 mid, where your position 4 (the top support) plays a more active roaming role. If lane swapping is a strategy, then it is up to the players to find a counter strategy.
What about both teams sending their botlanes top?
Thank you for that gold man!
good content.
This is crazy unfortunately I don't have time to watch worlds. I hope it won't get too boring after a while and can't wait for the counter tactics for this
we gotta start bringing this to soloqueue!!!!!!!! ruinthe top laners day
thats a kind of chaos id love to have in my soloq games over the current one lol
Grubs, the answer is grubs
The link in your description doesn't work
Ooh let me fix that thanks!
Wow your analysis is amazing and unbias
Why don’t they have grubs and dragon spawn at the same time then? Makes cross mapping easier for whoever gives first dragon.
Really great video
So thats why ivern is the most banned champ at this worlds
FLYQUEST MENTIONED RAHHHH 🦅🦅🦅
Why dont teams match laneswaps? Are the bot plates just that important?
My guess is that if they matched, the double range bot lane would not be able to get plates in the first 5 minutes, where they are the strongest, so they could not snowball their advantage
And usually you don't know the swap is coming. If you gamble and swap and it turns out your opponent didn't, then you're in HUGE trouble
amazing analysis ! i can totally see the amount effort that put into this video
As far as I understood it was actually the western teams to swap alot because they want to avoid the lane matchups against the better opponent.
Haven't watched this video yet tho so I prob am wrong.
Yes but the east made it better by controlling objectives with it
Every team has an incentive to do it. It was in fact an eastern team to start the trend last year with iG, but more recently NiP doing it in LPL spring opened Pandora’s box because NiP did it vs FPX, probably the hottest team on the planet back then and instantly everyone copied.
If melee support always swaps, why doesn't the other team also swap to counter it?
Well this is a new strategy, so I'd have to guess the teams haven't have enough practice with the counter strategy that's bound tobe even newer and didn't want to yolo first time strat in a worlds game.
5:15 if they lane swap lv 1, why they just dont predict and swap accordingly? why rumble didnt go bot?
Hello mate great vids, do you stream the worlds?
lane swaps might be strong but they’re so unbelievably boring 😭
how are they boring? they are causing more dives. more strategic diversity im draft and game they are unpredictable, they promote enemy teams invading level 1 they cause more action around the entire map.
whats boring is laners afk farming for 15 minutes and riot trying to force the game to be played a specific way.
if TOP laners couldn't lane against two opponents at the same time this would not happen, TOP laners ruining the game one again.
why lane swap is considered somehow new though? As you showed it was common in previous seasons, they just had to adapt to the turret passives and some other changes
Im noob i dont understand, why allow enemy to slow push. I was trying this and my oponnet just spam q in minions clearing them all (it was ziggs adc)
When the meta is just Dota 2 lane setup
Isn't Rumble the quintessential low-econ champ? Great ulti even without items.
He can't afford to fall behind or else he just falls off hard. His ult is the only econ part of his kit. The rest rely heavily on having the dps to even be a threat. He has no stuns and no reliable way to enter the backline, no dashes to survive ganks, w as his only survival tool, and gets destroyed by many top laners.
His main point is to destroy Jax and Gnar, but Jax isn't going to be played in a lane anytime soon, and Gnar isn't really the most gold hungry champ out there, so Rumble has fallen out of favor now.
I miss 14.18 patch
Great video that reminds me why sports have pro players commentating and why lol esports is dying among other things because they refuse to get pros in there consistently. I have been watching and they just react as if it were a random occurrence oh wow no swap this game ok let’s watch the game but of course there is an actual reason thanks for clarifying
ez arcanas
the reason why they laneswap is because western lanes are better at 1v1 and 2v2
The Mains radon is Zeus no one wanna lane against his carry champs xD 😅😊
Ok so gamble?
Probably the enemy could gamble too if they have 2 range vs range and melee. They meet at top and gamble won.
even if you were to match the lane swap and get a wining matchup now the benefits of having a pushing lane and neutralised because you can't take plates. If you pick cait lux into idk kalista alistar you will probably win the push but then what, even if you dive you can't play for plates because of tower damage reduction and extend the lead.
@@JimJPoggersyou can still dive/attempt to zone from xp on the 4th wave crash, especially if tower wave jgling is rlly good. It’s just teams will be so much more out of practice
Well, then the pushing lane wouldnt get the plates early game, partially neutralising their advantage
This shit is so cool and i have no idea why riot insists on absolutely gutting this emergent gameplay, i cant fathom any other esport or like valve reacting the same way with dota 2 trilane setups. it's stupid and beyond comprehension to me
There all secretly iron
But not only korean teams do that
Because turrets are dogsht do no damage.
i hate to say this but MLBB did it first
sadly its a pro only strat...
Isn't this just fucking dota now lmao
It's about timer objectives ? first botlane go bot for drake, then they back and sap lanes, then they contest void or herald and the toplaner at botlane can TP in case of. imo
*The only way to remove this laneswap is to "label" the minions in their respective roles lets say within 5 - 8 mins in game. So basically, only the top laner can cs or hit the minions in the top lane and so in the other lanes...*
This won't work because league can't even figure out where people are going when they swap pre game.
Cool
Damn, i guess i'm going against the grain here but i wish if you did less of these "pro play" videos and more videos on macro overall and how to view the map etc... Your "tempo lines" and "wave to wave macro" guides are imo, the best LoL guides on TH-cam (by far) and single handedly helped me go from high bronze to low plat in a few months.
I will still be watching everything tho.
There are a lot of videos explaining those fundamental stuff that are far more important for lower elo bracket.
I personally like how he's a high elo content creator. As comment above me said, there are so many other channels dedicated to the game fundamentals.
@@MrHarry37Who tho? Other than Coach Rogue and Coach Curtis, not many are giving actual really good content. The rest are just Skill Capped tier with the usual wave management and dont push without vision tips we know since season 6
@@aminebarka9213ShokLol has good midlane content
this isnt even high elo content this is pro play content, youll never see this in high elo solo q
its booring
Who gives a shit they’re trying to win
putting T1 in the thumbnail next to the word "laneswapping" is bad faith since they are probably the worst korean team in laneswapping at worlds. also in ur video there wasnt even a clip of T1 doing it properly xd
Its almost a decade too late to be upset about clickbaiting. At least it wasn't a half-naked anime girl with all caps "YOU WON'T BELIEVE..." or something lol.
I mean they did fantastic laneswap vs TES
They won against GenG tho
hey they won worlds tho
Aged so well
Damn. You have to be a giga nerd to hit diamond and the god of nerds to hit challenger in this game
Who cares? None of us can replicate this stuff in our soloq games not even in master.
It's very simple, their botlaners are like top 20 and would risk getting stomped 2v2 giving the enemy team a win con, they just swap early to have one less disadvantage.
Ignore all the strategy you talked about, its literally that simple.