Thanks for ramming this point home. It's so strange that RCDs have been so thoroughly tested, when we don't test MCBs at all, let alone at multiple points on their curve.
Hi thanks for helping electricians stay up to date, nice clear info I suspect it was a slip of the tong and other people have probably already mentioned the sequence of testing an RCD is 1/2 x first, then 1x and finally 5x 1/2 x test must be done before the rcd is tripped so if the mechanism is sticky and doesn't trip it needs changing as it would not have provided protection in the state it was when youi arrived on the job not sure where we stand if you get under 300mS for both half cycles at 1x but then get more than 40mS at 5x. it doesn't comply with previous additions of the regs but does comply now as the 5x test isn't required
That’s a fantastic place for A CU , gives the kids something to play with when there board . As for the test I was told by JW that my old faithful ROBIN KTS 1620 was to old and will only test AC type RCDs so would be useless on a modern installation, I said he was wrong as the KTS 1620 has a function for testing DC sensitive RCDs . And now look we only need to test on the AC function at 1 times i delta n . Nice too be proved right 😂but like you Marcos I will continue to test 1/2 1and 5 times I delta n , Fantastic video very well explained 👍👍👍👍❤️
It's mad howany people went out and got new testers for these type a rcds and now it's all scraped could of stuck with the old meters nothing wrong with them
@@gd-bq7em that’s why I never brought a new meter. I’ve had a Robin KTS 1620 MFT for over 20 years and I have no in tension of replacing it, although I also have a kewtech KT 63 that I got last year for no other reason than it was cheep . I also still have my little Robin multimeter that I got when I was 15 .
@@seandempsey7351 i think this 18th edition has been a bit of a cock up nothing but hassle and put prices up On every job because manufacturers charge arm and a leg for these new parts . Customer end up getting dave from down the road and end up with more problems than before they started
@@gd-bq7em ain’t that the truth. Personally I think it’s only going to get worse. Until the boffins at the IET get up from there fancy leather bound swivel chairs and glass top desks and get out on the tools , then they just might see what the job is really like. They like creating problems to solve problems that did not exist in the first place. But who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing.
Crazy how alot of people had to go out and buy new testers at hundreds of pounds to test type a rcds and year later could of kept there old testers that had nothing wrong with them 😅
@@MS-Patriot2 I think so and now this type a rcds is on every circuit. So if you install a single socket or a fuse spur you need to tell the customer they need a new c.u or separate enclouse to house type a rcd they are going to say get lost use an extension lead and be far more unsafe than before. Considering these people are so intelligent they are thick
@@gd-bq7em If a customer has an older style distribution system without any RCD protection, I don’t see how they are any less protected if they choose to use an extension cable. The vast majority of customers will understand the safety improvement a more modern CU offers. What I think is most important is for the electrician to only install what is really needed, not what the latest fad happens to be from industry. I’m thinking AFD and SPD in particular here.
@@MS-Patriot2 I have to be honest it's all getting a bit silly for me know. I can understand safety and that. This is an example I was talking to Tech support the other. I do alot of work for white goods shops that fit appliances. For example a single oven they go out can't be done because the 13 amp single oven is wired into the 32 amp supply. So they ask me to go fit a socket. The new regs say now that socket should be type A protected because of dc components.try explaining that to a customer they just want there oven fitted. They say been like that 10 years lol it's rcd protected already but ac type. They will l say just extension lead to the nearest socket.
GSH Gary thanks ever so much your an absolutely amazing tutor I’ve been on site a full year domestically & my skills are through the roof thanks to you & the team
Is the reason to reduce minimum tests to 1x a result of the manufacturer's claiming we're over testing RCDs, resulting in premature failure? If not, what's the reason?
So we are fitting surge protection, metal boards, soon fully AFD boards all for safety and now not fully testing an RCD just because manufacturers are making crap gear. Tested one today passed the 1x but failed the 5x on a Type AC. I thought the whole point was making sure it didn’t rise pass 50v touch voltage.
@@MS-Patriot2 that is not true. The test button connects to a resistor connected across the poles that generates a test current, and that is what trips the RCD. Now granted, the test current is probably a little higher than the exact specs, but it *is* a test current and not a mechanical test.
Anyone notice that if a hager rcd hasn't been tested for a long time they almost fail on the first test, they need a few tests to bring the result down.
RCDs should be tested at their source. Testing at a socket with an adaptor may interfere with the test due to potential faults in the circuit. Following the correct sequence of tests would of course eliminate that possibility
@@travoltasbiplane1551 my point was, with people dropping standards by the next generation of shit sparks, the last thing we want is testing to be less stringent, this is like regs are dropping standards themselves 🤦♂️ Well I'm glad I'm gonna leave this game
I don't get why you'd do the other tests? There's no-where to put the results, and regardless of what those results are the only one that matters is 1x, so it's a literal waste of time doing the other tests. It's like doing an insulation resistance test that comes back perfect, then visually checking every inch of cable afterwards.. pointless.
Just because there's nowhere to pit results, doesn't mean we shouldn't a certain tests? Neutrals for example, we don't test them and yet we should so as to ensure connections and complete circuits. The "Bang" and "It doesn't work" tests aren't tests as they rely on luck and bad practice.
Your 100% correct, if 1x is the requirement, that’s the test. If they didn’t think it was more than adequate it wouldn’t be in the regulations. All this bull “ I’ll still test at 5x cause I’m dedicate to a higher standard, is pure and needless vanity”.
Just to be clear why do we do all the testing on RCDs , is it because test meter manufacturers wanted us to buy new meters. Be honest not all of us fully understand why 6 test had to be carried out we just followed the advice Now there is outrage that we do not need to do them all as has been said we do not have to prove mcbs will trip
It’s a backwards step in my humble opinion. I’ll always use the “auto” function and go through the full range of tests. But then that begs the question, do you bin it if it fails the x5?? 🤷♂️ If they’ve removed that trip table from the back of the good book, then what are the time constraints for a standard 100mA? And 100mA time delayed?
What is the point of testing at 2X and 5X? The RCD is rated to 80A, so why not test at 80A to make sure it is effective? That seems more logical than testing at 2X and 5X. I assume that at 0.5X, you are making sure the RCD does not operate?
He is testing the 1x 30mA earth leakage current (I-delta-n) If it passed '80A' test, you're already dead! The 80Amp is the max operating through current when under load when supplying all the mcbs. Your heart can stop with less than 30mA.
Because it's just confirming operation. All else is being left to the manufacturers. The type a test current is higher so AC is the one that we have always HAD to do.
Thanks for ramming this point home. It's so strange that RCDs have been so thoroughly tested, when we don't test MCBs at all, let alone at multiple points on their curve.
Thanks for the update on the mining levels, as you say in my testing I will still carry out my full tests for my own personal wants
Thank you my friend 👍🏻
Hi thanks for helping electricians stay up to date, nice clear info
I suspect it was a slip of the tong and other people have probably already mentioned the sequence of testing an RCD is 1/2 x first, then 1x and finally 5x
1/2 x test must be done before the rcd is tripped so if the mechanism is sticky and doesn't trip it needs changing as it would not have provided protection in the state it was when youi arrived on the job
not sure where we stand if you get under 300mS for both half cycles at 1x but then get more than 40mS at 5x. it doesn't comply with previous additions of the regs but does comply now as the 5x test isn't required
Will still be using the auto test feature found on virtually every tester
That’s a fantastic place for A CU , gives the kids something to play with when there board .
As for the test I was told by JW that my old faithful ROBIN KTS 1620 was to old and will only test AC type RCDs so would be useless on a modern installation, I said he was wrong as the KTS 1620 has a function for testing DC sensitive RCDs . And now look we only need to test on the AC function at 1 times i delta n . Nice too be proved right 😂but like you Marcos I will continue to test 1/2 1and 5 times I delta n ,
Fantastic video very well explained 👍👍👍👍❤️
🤦♂️
It's mad howany people went out and got new testers for these type a rcds and now it's all scraped could of stuck with the old meters nothing wrong with them
@@gd-bq7em that’s why I never brought a new meter. I’ve had a Robin KTS 1620 MFT for over 20 years and I have no in tension of replacing it, although I also have a kewtech KT 63 that I got last year for no other reason than it was cheep . I also still have my little Robin multimeter that I got when I was 15 .
@@seandempsey7351 i think this 18th edition has been a bit of a cock up nothing but hassle and put prices up
On every job because manufacturers charge arm and a leg for these new parts . Customer end up getting dave from down the road and end up with more problems than before they started
@@gd-bq7em ain’t that the truth.
Personally I think it’s only going to get worse. Until the boffins at the IET get up from there fancy leather bound swivel chairs and glass top desks and get out on the tools , then they just might see what the job is really like. They like creating problems to solve problems that did not exist in the first place. But who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing.
Great quality information thank you so much 👍🏼
Thanks for watching 👍🏻
Crazy how alot of people had to go out and buy new testers at hundreds of pounds to test type a rcds and year later could of kept there old testers that had nothing wrong with them 😅
BINGO! Makes you wonder whether industry has some input to the IET on a purely commercial basis. A bit like CPS membership.
@@MS-Patriot2 I think so and now this type a rcds is on every circuit. So if you install a single socket or a fuse spur you need to tell the customer they need a new c.u or separate enclouse to house type a rcd they are going to say get lost use an extension lead and be far more unsafe than before. Considering these people are so intelligent they are thick
@@gd-bq7em If a customer has an older style distribution system without any RCD protection, I don’t see how they are any less protected if they choose to use an extension cable. The vast majority of customers will understand the safety improvement a more modern CU offers. What I think is most important is for the electrician to only install what is really needed, not what the latest fad happens to be from industry. I’m thinking AFD and SPD in particular here.
@@MS-Patriot2 I have to be honest it's all getting a bit silly for me know.
I can understand safety and that.
This is an example I was talking to
Tech support the other. I do alot of work for white goods shops that fit appliances. For example a single oven they go out can't be done because the 13 amp single oven is wired into the 32 amp supply. So they ask me to go fit a socket.
The new regs say now that socket should be type A protected because of dc components.try explaining that to a customer they just want there oven fitted. They say been like that 10 years lol it's rcd protected already but ac type.
They will l say just extension lead to the nearest socket.
Most domestic are B curve
GSH Gary thanks ever so much your an absolutely amazing tutor I’ve been on site a full year domestically & my skills are through the roof thanks to you & the team
Massive thanks for the support. Gaz 👍🏻
Is the reason to reduce minimum tests to 1x a result of the manufacturer's claiming we're over testing RCDs, resulting in premature failure? If not, what's the reason?
So we are fitting surge protection, metal boards, soon fully AFD boards all for safety and now not fully testing an RCD just because manufacturers are making crap gear. Tested one today passed the 1x but failed the 5x on a Type AC. I thought the whole point was making sure it didn’t rise pass 50v touch voltage.
The reason is to keep the shareholders happy....
Over here in NL we are encouraged to test all our RCDs at least once a month with the test button. You can guess how many people actually do.
@@JasperJanssen That test only proves the mechanics operate, not the threshold at which a fault current would trigger it.
@@MS-Patriot2 that is not true. The test button connects to a resistor connected across the poles that generates a test current, and that is what trips the RCD. Now granted, the test current is probably a little higher than the exact specs, but it *is* a test current and not a mechanical test.
Thanks mate
Great video lads well done
Thanks as always for watching 👍🏻
Great video
Thanks 😎👊
Excellent
Great content many thanks!!!!
Thanks for watching
I can't understand how a building services designer see it acceptable that the fuse board can be sited so close to a radiator.
Anyone notice that if a hager rcd hasn't been tested for a long time they almost fail on the first test, they need a few tests to bring the result down.
Useful info
Thanks
why would you put yourself at more risk of working on or near live conductors when you could have tested at a socket outlet in this instance?
RCDs should be tested at their source. Testing at a socket with an adaptor may interfere with the test due to potential faults in the circuit. Following the correct sequence of tests would of course eliminate that possibility
What about half time, and functional before instrument tests on iv
What about testing the rcd if it used being use for fault protection as well as additional protection?
Are they also saying you don't need to press the test button as well🤔
No... There's a tick box for that on the schedule of inspections isn't there
@@travoltasbiplane1551 my point was, with people dropping standards by the next generation of shit sparks, the last thing we want is testing to be less stringent, this is like regs are dropping standards themselves 🤦♂️
Well I'm glad I'm gonna leave this game
@@MrSJT reality is the shit sparks don't do any testing anyway. I'm trying to get out too. Industry is f**ked
@@travoltasbiplane1551 exactly 👍
whats the difference between type AC and type A RCD?
As a teacher of the trade, how does this sit with you? Good? Bad? OEM driven?
In this video we are just offering up the information - Marcus stated he won’t change his personal testing methods 👍🏻
I don't get why you'd do the other tests? There's no-where to put the results, and regardless of what those results are the only one that matters is 1x, so it's a literal waste of time doing the other tests. It's like doing an insulation resistance test that comes back perfect, then visually checking every inch of cable afterwards.. pointless.
Just because there's nowhere to pit results, doesn't mean we shouldn't a certain tests? Neutrals for example, we don't test them and yet we should so as to ensure connections and complete circuits. The "Bang" and "It doesn't work" tests aren't tests as they rely on luck and bad practice.
Your 100% correct, if 1x is the requirement, that’s the test. If they didn’t think it was more than adequate it wouldn’t be in the regulations. All this bull “ I’ll still test at 5x cause I’m dedicate to a higher standard, is pure and needless vanity”.
I think the BS7671 is a women always changing their mind. Record x1.5 x1 x5 no actually just record just x5 no actually just record x1.
Question in gn3 does it not require a half times test first then 1 X test.
Yep in GN3
@@GSHElectrical so is this not part of the 3cd test then
Is the test is still carried out at 500 volts?
You’ll wish you hadn’t asked that …. Have a another read of your GN3.
As technology moves on testing takes a back step.. crazy.. be interesting if you get any comments on how to test an E2 haha
🤫 Type E 2amp MCB’s are very rare 😂
Just to be clear why do we do all the testing on RCDs , is it because test meter manufacturers wanted us to buy new meters. Be honest not all of us fully understand why 6 test had to be carried out we just followed the advice
Now there is outrage that we do not need to do them all as has been said we do not have to prove mcbs will trip
Great comment. The extended tests can be useful when fault finding 👍🏻. Gaz
It’s a backwards step in my humble opinion. I’ll always use the “auto” function and go through the full range of tests. But then that begs the question, do you bin it if it fails the x5?? 🤷♂️
If they’ve removed that trip table from the back of the good book, then what are the time constraints for a standard 100mA?
And 100mA time delayed?
Remember BS 7671 is the minimum requirement 👍🏻
Don't forget about Type E LOL
🤫
What is the right sequence for a phase sequence test?
What is the point of testing at 2X and 5X? The RCD is rated to 80A, so why not test at 80A to make sure it is effective? That seems more logical than testing at 2X and 5X. I assume that at 0.5X, you are making sure the RCD does not operate?
ur not getting 80 amps out of some Duracell batteries either mate
He is testing the 1x 30mA earth leakage current (I-delta-n) If it passed '80A' test, you're already dead! The 80Amp is the max operating through current when under load when supplying all the mcbs. Your heart can stop with less than 30mA.
Why test a type A device with the test meter set to AC. The rcd testing regs are a pigs ear!
Because it's just confirming operation. All else is being left to the manufacturers. The type a test current is higher so AC is the one that we have always HAD to do.
You forget Type E
wink wink
That’s a breaker 😉🤫