I’m a senior engineer who pays for the top-tier license. We’ve been using CLion for Rust and it has been really awesome, but I always felt left out compared to C and C#. Super looking forward to using this at work.
@@jacksonsingleton you'll know when it happens by rust falling in the "Most loved" category. Two types of languages, the ones that people love and the ones they use
jetbrains is one of my favorite development related companies. Glad to see them showing love for rust, they've been using it on some of their projects already and now are fully on board with it
I'm on Windows a lot recently and I have the full JetBrains suite, and it's pretty nice to just launch the IDE specific to what you're working on, require little to no configuration, and have any configuration you do be unique to the specific ecosystem you're working in at the time (e.g. changes to Rider don't affect CLion). The ability to change your Nvim config how you like is great but there's something nice about just not bothering.
I won't advise to go "no configuration" route on Windows with PyCharm or IntelliJ - you're asking for surprises in CI that way, although the config required is (usually) simple for PyCharm (IntelliJ tends to mess up the bytecode versions, especially in mixed Java/Kotlin projects). But yeah, when I was forced to use Win10 on a previous job, IntelliJ waas a lifesaver!
I have to say that their IDEs are a game changer for me. And having a Rust IDE maybe a strong reason to try Rust. The same thing happened with Python to me. While I didn't know about PyCharm I hated to write Python... in VS. But when I tried it I got it has the best language support AFAICS.
well if u are writing a mini program , algorithm or not so hectic task I would always go with VS code somehow.. maybe cuz I started in it- , but for JAVA my go to IDE is IntelliJ it feels so much soothing , especially when the emmets are so convinient ( but for Python idk VScode is great choice )
@@eypandabear7483What about the USA invasion in Ukraine? You know that JB, Nuland, and Pyatt overthrew their president and installed a puppet there in 2014.
The founders of the company are Russian, but the company itself was founded (and still has its HQ) in Prague, Czech Rep./Czechia and is a Czech company.
You put into words perfectly how I see VS Code. It's an editor that can *almost* be an IDE. I got spoiled with JetBrains' IDEs and every time I use VS Code, it's super frustrating. 🤷♂️
I somehow managed to get to the point of coding most of my projects with vscode without any extensions 😂 (except for the remote suite). 0 linting lfg xD Please someone save me
@@SiisKolkytEurooRefactoring tools, you have to bring your own and still it's not on par with what good IDEs offer. Debugging support, with VS C*de you can either have a good time or an incredibly frustrating time trying to debug something depending on the language, with an IDE it just works. Code navigation is also subpar, IDEs have different ways of identifying symbols that VS C*de simply can't do. I'm sure there's even more things, but this is what I feel and miss when I have to use it.
@@SiisKolkytEuroo That's just it. The term IDE is highly subjective. What you may consider as sufficient for an IDE may not be so for someone else. Hence the whole VSCode vs X argument is a pointless and stupid one. It just feeds into the need for us hairless apes to engage in tribalism.
I really like the IntelliJ IDEs. I used PHP Storm when I swapped from full time .Net dev to PHP web dev and kind of fell in love. I've been meaning to try out their other IDEs
@@Dipj01 the job market kinda sucks everywhere right now, but I expect you'll be able to find Laravel jobs at a web dev agency fairly easily soon. Especially if you have experience in an agency
IntelliJ is so good. For beginners go learn the underlying tools that the IDE is giving you a GUI then use the IDE to speed up your own processes. Go print out the PDFs of keyboard shortcuts too
FACTS About Jet brains: 1. They are a Czech company with headquarters in Prage 2. They have Russian founders but they are ex-pats 3. They denounced the way and Russia's involvement at the very beginning of the conflict. 4. They relocated their (most) Russian employees out of Russia at the companies expense.
I got the all-products package for work, it's honestly the best decision ever, everything is just so much better than VS Ent 2022, and works the same on my PC and Mac, could not be happier, already installed the RustRover EAP :D
VSCode really shines on the niche use cases. I installed the Arduino extension and get proper linting and vim motions and don’t have the use the POS Arduino IDE. Also GLSL editing markdown etc I like to do in VSCode
@@zollerboy1429 yeah it's vscode without the extensions (no vim extension is a dealbreaker for me). Lot's of text-editors are just vscode under the hood like obsidian for example
I have a similar starting experience except instead of NetBeans I actually did use Eclipse. And so Eclipse holds that place for me. It did the job and helped me quite a lot, surprisingly much so with this plugin that allowed to me to drag and drop native widgets (SWT) to design a GUI and it would generate the Java code for it. Looking back, yes it was buggy, yes it was slow, I had no idea what many of the extra features did. So perhaps it really wasn't that great. But it helped me get started and learn. So thank you, Eclipse.
I started out in Eclipse when I made my dumb small Minecraft mods and whenever later in IT school the others used NetBeans I found its usability severely lacking, it felt clunky, constrained. But at least I got the ones that were on BlueJ off of that, lol.
Hey, Turbo Pascal 6 was just perfect! Borland C++ was also a thing of beauty - allowed me to complete my first coding job back in '94, too. Taught me to use the debugger and not to overuse it.
Turbo Pascal 6 was amazing. We still used it in CS class at my school in the early 2000s. I had only dabbled in QuickBasic before and some x86 assembly via notepad. Compared with that, Turbo Pascal felt like someone handed me a power tool. Sure it was outdated 16-bit DOS based but it had everything to build even complex programs with. Including inline assembly which I loved to mess around with. Good times.
You're absolutely right about VSCode. Sure it has a ton of extensions and you can extend the functionality however you want, but plugins are a hit or miss (looking at you, Julia). With proper IDEs you don't have to install or configure anything, everything comes as one package, ensured to work the way God intended
2:43 thnx for mentioning ur xp with fleet. personally though, i do think fleet has a place for learners hoping on languages. one common base with consistent lsp xp.
Ever used IntelliJ based IDEs/editors on a laptop? If you like reducing battery life to 30 mins and seeing flames come out of the ports whenever the thing tries to autocomplete, I'd recommend it.
It's weird to me that someone in chat suggested there would be "Russia-Ukraine drama" related to JetBrains. I've never heard even a hint of anything like that happening, and it doesn't make much sense since they're a Czech company and only released a statement that they're halting sales in Russia and Belarus, which most companies did as well.
ปีที่แล้ว +4
Jetbrains used to have multiple offices in Russia, but they have closed those down. So I can understand where the user in the chat got the idea from, but to my knowledge Jetbrains has made the correct decisions.
@ its completely wrong decision to shut down offices in Russia since they made and named Kotlin pl after Kotlin Island (Russian Ко́тлин (Kótlin)), near St. Petersburg lol. I don't understand why cant russian devs be part of a company whose CEOs are literally russian dudes named Sergey Dmitriev and Valentin Kipyatkov
The founders of the company are russians. It is a common behavior - move to a european country and start a business here if you want to sell worldwide. Even the language they created - Kotlin - is named after russian island. So, basically it is a czech company but in fact, russian one
@ They are originally a Russian company, with employees from countries like Ukraine and Belarus. They are based in Czech Republic mostly so that they would not be restricted by Russian laws and reality in making great products that can be loved and used worldwide.
Missing goland everyday at my new job. It was just simply good. Edge cases, sure. But VSCode is just not it. I sold my soul to past me, and started to use gopls with emacs (again). Still feel yuck, but better than the fauxpen source which is VSCode. The yuckyness is greatly reduced b/c i get to use Magit again. JC i love magit.
Jetbrains are a Czech company. I don't know if this needs to be said, but Czech Republic is not Russia, nor is it in Russia. The closest office to Russia they have is in Armenia, which, again, is not Russia, nor in Russia. They also have offices in other countries, including the US, which is close to Russia, but is not Russia.
It's just easier to monetize a separate IDE so who can blame them p.s. I've been using Rider, DataGrip and VSCode for frontend and CI/CD stuff and I really like it! I like Vim, but for me it's like a Linux text editor - is there anything particular that it can do better?
I think you misunderstood it. The blog post says: "Like many of our IDEs, the functionality of RustRover can be installed as a plugin in IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate." IDEA ultimate is meant to be the single IDE for all (except the C family). Some people like it, others like me, don't. I just use their all products license and keep the IDEs separate.
I tried vim/neovim because of you. Motions make sense but as an IDE for C# is just bad when coming from Rider. But I was able to learn IdeaVim and now all is good. Except that vim motions are way worst for me then helix ones... But a man can't have everything
I use neovim for just about everything now, and I rarely use C# anymore except maintaining existing projects, but 100% agree it is a terrible experience coming from Rider to neovim. C# is a language that feels completely different without an IDE, and I never found any editor using an LSP like OmniSharp to be a viable alternative.
@@ForeverZer0 I wonder if it's just because Jetbrain stuff is better. Because most people use LSP stuff for Javascript. But using WebStorm is just better. So I don't think it's C#, it's just LSP being a protocol, you can't really add features. And until you try something better you think it's great
Bought the JetBrains "All Products Pack" license back when it was first offered as the "Toolbox" license, and the yearly fee is still less than $200 which really is a no-brainer for me.
As a user of CLion for years for Rust development, I gotta say it is significantly faster startup without all the plugins CLion loads up for C, C++, Make, CMake, etc. on macos it looks like it is JUST the IDE, the base plugin and a cmake plugin. It also seemed to be slightly faster at indexing a project for the first time, but that could be project size as a factor, I was playing with different projects. I'm not sold on ditching the open source development completely, and would like to see it forked so it can still be used in CLion.
Regarding VSCode. When configured, it's a reasonable IDE (specifically c++). It feels somewhat like an IDE. Neovim, no matter how much you pimp it up, always feels like a text editor with bells and whistles tacked on. Which is what it is.
A coworker of mine hates neovim with a passion but uses vanilla vim. And to be fair to him, I've never seen a neovim user working as efficient as he works in vanilla vim.
JetBrains made the start up time much shorter than it used to be, or maybe it’s the same amount of resources loaded and computers are faster. Just glad that they don’t follow the trend of using more resources as computers have higher and higher base resources.
Having used VSCode extensively for years, and now trying to play around in Neovim, I'm not sure I completely follow the reasoning. Much like Neovim, VSCode is a text editor that can be extended using plugins. It starts out with a bunch more stuff than Neovim, obviously, but, also like Neovim, it's similarly useless for serious extended development without any plugins. It's just an evolution of the user experience (the package management, and the UI does have it's advantages) + a devolution of backend tech supporting it (it's electron, after all) of the Neovim "model".
"Just a text editor" that is 300 MB and takes multiple seconds to fully start up. When I want to use a lightweight code editor, why would I not wish to just use a lightweight code editor that has all the same functionality, is 6 MB, and starts up in milliseconds? If I want an IDE experience, I expect the heaviness, but I fail to understand the desire to have it when it isn't necessary. That is the point people make. It is the heaviness of an IDE with the base functionality of lightweight code editor. It would be better to pick one or the other, because it is bad for both worlds: it instead sits in the middle as either a bloated code editor, or an IDE that lacks basic functionality, depending on how you look at it.
@@tsolanoff You can like the editor, that's fine, whatever floats your boat, but let's not be silly and pretend that it isn't bloated and slow for what it is. If you think that any Electron app is fast, responsive, and unbloated, then your opinion is immediately discarded into fantasy land. Don't let your personal preference in editor and tribalism toward it take away your ability to reason objectively.
@@ForeverZer0 Electron is not the fastest thing in the world, it’s true. But I don’t understand the problem: 1 sec to launch editor, and? The speed of typing is not affected (also there is vim plugin to simplify navigation and editing), tho it’s not so important since it takes more time to think than type. In comparison, vim with extra plugins (which require to sell your soul to the devil in order to set it properly for your platform) = constant war with bugs and errors.
@@tsolanoff One second until you see a square window on your screen is not the same as a "full startup", which I made the explicit distinction in my original reply. It should be noted that your personal experiences with Vim are not everyone else's. I don't care about your choice of editor, if you like VScode then you should use it, I genuinely mean that. I merely made an objective, empirical, and measurable observation on a technical aspect that is completely detached from personal opinion, it was not a personal attack on people who choose vscode anyways. If you don't mind the performance and resources problems that is objectively has, then there is no problem with you using it. No different than me not having "bugs and errors" and knowing how to configure vim correctly makes it a good choice for me. Your choice of editor has no bearing on my life whatsoever.
its not a fully russian company nor was it ever fully russian. they made their position very clear at the start of the conflict and they handled it well.
On the Russian company part, a whole lot of Americans were against the US invading Iraq due to WMD’s which never existed. It’s important to remember that governments and militaries are not usually a true representation of all of the people in a nation.
This led me to give it a try.. But the moment I tried to run it via SSH, it was using some other IDE, not RustRover.. That was weird from a first time user's POV. Anyway I'll wait for them to have a remote version before trying again.
What part of vs code being slow do you mean? I don't feel it being slow (but I also haven't worked on very large codebases yet). When I read about people liking vs code, they very often say it's so lightweight.
If you're comparing to a full IDE like (regular) Visual Studio or a JetBrains product, VS Code is fast. If you're comparing to a text editor like (Neo)Vim, VS Cose is a snail.
As a Russian, I was very pleased to hear your opinion on the current situation. I like that you are not biased towards all Russians, although unfortunately there are many people who are. Many of us watch your videos/streams and enjoy it immensely. Thanks Primeagen, keep going!
@@winchester2581 what word do you suggest using instead? When I say "situation", I'm not talking about the war, I mean the "situation" where people are hated based on their nationality/country of birth and that's it. So, I'm not sure whether you get me correctly and already say "you'll be hated too".
@@winchester2581 man, are you trying to provoke me into anything? I understand that it can be hard to admit this depending on different circumstances, but regardless of the situation, you cannot judge a person based solely on their nationality or country of birth, otherwise we will all quickly slide into hatred of each other. Don't judge a book by its cover.
I actually can’t understand that hype over vim. Yes, it’s provides great features for navigation through file and editing that makes it perfect for ones who constantly deal with such things (sysadmins maybe). But for development, coding, debugging… it’s fcking shit: onerous configuration, bugged plugins, errors…
That one chatter who said they stopped using Jetbrains IDEs when they switched to a subscription model is cheap af 😂 Obviously quality tools must be maintained and people should be compensated for quality work
Most people who don't like subscription models aren't in it for the money. They just don't want conditions put on their access to a tool that they have incorporated into some regular activity, especially if the regular activity has the potential to lead to emotional investment in the tool. Developers, gamers, and artists especially are prone to getting emotionally invested in software. But its also just becomes less worth continuing a subscription once you start; the longer you are subscribed, the more money you have invested in the tool for roughly the same utility (ignoring security/bug fixes). Sure, developers need to be able to get paid for the technical quality and amount of contributions they make at work, and their employer needs to be able to pay them, but this can be done without robbing the user of their past investment of the product. They don't want to do this though because a subscription basis gives them a more stable less innovation-dependent revenue. Creating new things is much more difficult and risky than riding a wave. (this is largely devils advocacy though, and is intentially igoring the holes in this reasoning in order to present it in defense of people who don't like subscription models)
@@homelessrobot _Ignoring security and bug fixes_ so just ignore the most important part of having a quality, reliable tool to make your point, huh? I'm specifically talking about Jetbrains, and they do not use the sub model as an excuse to not innovate. I'm surprised other devs think products like IDEs are truly one-and-done, unless they themselves don't build products in domains that must evolve by their nature.
@@vulpixelful yes, but peoples aversion to a subscription model generally isn't jetbrains specific. I would guess not even amongst such high quality defect free people as jetbrains users. And yes, ignoring security. Nobody looks at a selection of programs and goes 'the one with the best security gets my money' first. First they evaluate whether they actually need/want the software. You don't get bonus points for making a super secure and bug free program if nobody wants it.
@@homelessrobot It's lazy thinking to make a blanket judgement about subscription models. It also depends on your circumstances. Personally, I find that Jetbrains tools help me to be more productive in my job which I find to be very valuable and my company pays the subscription fee. If I wasn't getting that value (I knew I would because of the community edition) and/or if I couldn't afford to pay for it on my own, maybe I wouldn't pay for the subscription 🤷🏾♀️ Considering value and affordability on an individual level is different from being against all subscription models for tools. I don't know if you've ever had a toolset that unlocked productivity and understanding for you, but after I have a reasonable _yearly_ subscription is almost a trivial consideration.
I know @ThePrimeTime doesn't like VS Code, but I happen to really appreciate, I like that it's in between, as I use some features of both and always found full IDEs get in my way. Directory list, and integrated terminal ftw imo.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't really use jetbrains products but their jetbrains mono font is absolutely ace.
Tools are shit, but the greatest font
@@velho6298to each their own, no need to call it shit, its just not smth ud prefer
fira code ftw
@@ludo534 I use that too sometimes, both great fonts
Maybe unpopular opinion but Microsoft's Cascadia code is just gorgeous, can't code without it
"'Only dumbasses use vim', by the way I use vim fulltime"
Love it
Why be a dumbass? Because nobody likes a smartass.
What a dumbass. Classic vim user.
The power of misquotes.
I’m a senior engineer who pays for the top-tier license. We’ve been using CLion for Rust and it has been really awesome, but I always felt left out compared to C and C#. Super looking forward to using this at work.
People actually use rust at work?
@@jacksonsingleton you'll know when it happens by rust falling in the "Most loved" category. Two types of languages, the ones that people love and the ones they use
Why?
@@mannycalavera121 so he can pay for the IDE, duh.
it is WAY better at "getting to the Rust" over CLion.
jetbrains is one of my favorite development related companies. Glad to see them showing love for rust, they've been using it on some of their projects already and now are fully on board with it
I'm on Windows a lot recently and I have the full JetBrains suite, and it's pretty nice to just launch the IDE specific to what you're working on, require little to no configuration, and have any configuration you do be unique to the specific ecosystem you're working in at the time (e.g. changes to Rider don't affect CLion). The ability to change your Nvim config how you like is great but there's something nice about just not bothering.
I won't advise to go "no configuration" route on Windows with PyCharm or IntelliJ - you're asking for surprises in CI that way, although the config required is (usually) simple for PyCharm (IntelliJ tends to mess up the bytecode versions, especially in mixed Java/Kotlin projects). But yeah, when I was forced to use Win10 on a previous job, IntelliJ waas a lifesaver!
I have to say that their IDEs are a game changer for me. And having a Rust IDE maybe a strong reason to try Rust. The same thing happened with Python to me. While I didn't know about PyCharm I hated to write Python... in VS. But when I tried it I got it has the best language support AFAICS.
I'm the same. At this point I'm unlikely to try a language if there isn't JetBrains IDE support for it.
C'mon, VS Code ain't that bad. Yes, it is an Electron-based mess, but sometimes it's just faster to fire it up and run a couple of proof-of-concepts.
well if u are writing a mini program , algorithm or not so hectic task I would always go with VS code somehow.. maybe cuz I started in it- , but for JAVA my go to IDE is IntelliJ it feels so much soothing , especially when the emmets are so convinient ( but for Python idk VScode is great choice )
even JetBrains can't make python usable
FYI: JetBrains is a Czech company
and it was founded by three russian developers according to wikipedia
lol. Jetbrains founders were in Saint Petersburg near by Dybenko metro station (rent a ground floor in some buildings) and created first version Idea.
ŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘŘ
The founders are Russian, but the company itself is Czech and they suspended all activities in Russia after the invasion of Ukraine.
@@eypandabear7483What about the USA invasion in Ukraine? You know that JB, Nuland, and Pyatt overthrew their president and installed a puppet there in 2014.
Jetbrains IDEs are great. Huge boost in productivity!
The founders of the company are Russian, but the company itself was founded (and still has its HQ) in Prague, Czech Rep./Czechia and is a Czech company.
I honestly dont care if they are russians is it something bad now days?
@@JeudryPeñaPeña Not much for keeping up with current events aren't ya?
@@JeudryPeñaPeña being russian has been considered bad since and before nato started existing
@@CYXXYCPeople will hate you because you posses something they want and lack. Remember this is their personal problem, not yours (c) Kylie Francis
I dont give a shit if they are Russian, as long as they are against the russian regime and its war.
You put into words perfectly how I see VS Code. It's an editor that can *almost* be an IDE. I got spoiled with JetBrains' IDEs and every time I use VS Code, it's super frustrating. 🤷♂️
Can you explain to me the "almost" part? What is missing?
I somehow managed to get to the point of coding most of my projects with vscode without any extensions 😂 (except for the remote suite).
0 linting lfg xD
Please someone save me
@@SiisKolkytEurooRefactoring tools, you have to bring your own and still it's not on par with what good IDEs offer. Debugging support, with VS C*de you can either have a good time or an incredibly frustrating time trying to debug something depending on the language, with an IDE it just works. Code navigation is also subpar, IDEs have different ways of identifying symbols that VS C*de simply can't do.
I'm sure there's even more things, but this is what I feel and miss when I have to use it.
@@SiisKolkytEuroo That's just it. The term IDE is highly subjective. What you may consider as sufficient for an IDE may not be so for someone else. Hence the whole VSCode vs X argument is a pointless and stupid one. It just feeds into the need for us hairless apes to engage in tribalism.
I had a very hard time getting used to VS Code. But I wanted to learn how to do my things on the terminal, I'll be back though.
I really like the IntelliJ IDEs. I used PHP Storm when I swapped from full time .Net dev to PHP web dev and kind of fell in love. I've been meaning to try out their other IDEs
How is the market in php? I'm learning Laravel and hoping will find a job soon
@@Dipj01 the job market kinda sucks everywhere right now, but I expect you'll be able to find Laravel jobs at a web dev agency fairly easily soon. Especially if you have experience in an agency
"it's an editor you can make into an ide, sorta" didn't expect such a bold statement on vim
It's kinda like emacs, which is the opposite, an IDE you can turn into an Editor.
Absolutely insane how much time jetbrains has saved me over the years
developers are the only kind of people that won’t pay 100€ a year for the best ide on the market while earning 120k+ per year
@@riccardopalleschi good tools are certainly worth it, but in most places developers don't make nearly as much as they seem to make in the US.
@@riccardopalleschi The engineers in openAI must be absolutely dumb for using vscode.
@@georgehelyarthis.
IntelliJ is so good. For beginners go learn the underlying tools that the IDE is giving you a GUI then use the IDE to speed up your own processes. Go print out the PDFs of keyboard shortcuts too
FACTS About Jet brains:
1. They are a Czech company with headquarters in Prage
2. They have Russian founders but they are ex-pats
3. They denounced the way and Russia's involvement at the very beginning of the conflict.
4. They relocated their (most) Russian employees out of Russia at the companies expense.
Who cares? Just support people who deserve it, regardless of nationality.
@@JonathanTheZombie 🤦♂
I got the all-products package for work, it's honestly the best decision ever, everything is just so much better than VS Ent 2022, and works the same on my PC and Mac, could not be happier, already installed the RustRover EAP :D
Cracked Intellij Idea was my first actual IDE. It was so good for the time if I wasn't a middle schooler at the time I would've paid for it.
VSCode really shines on the niche use cases. I installed the Arduino extension and get proper linting and vim motions and don’t have the use the POS Arduino IDE. Also GLSL editing markdown etc I like to do in VSCode
Isn’t the new arduino ide just a rebranded vscode now?
@@zollerboy1429 yeah it's vscode without the extensions (no vim extension is a dealbreaker for me). Lot's of text-editors are just vscode under the hood like obsidian for example
I have a similar starting experience except instead of NetBeans I actually did use Eclipse. And so Eclipse holds that place for me. It did the job and helped me quite a lot, surprisingly much so with this plugin that allowed to me to drag and drop native widgets (SWT) to design a GUI and it would generate the Java code for it. Looking back, yes it was buggy, yes it was slow, I had no idea what many of the extra features did. So perhaps it really wasn't that great. But it helped me get started and learn. So thank you, Eclipse.
Same 😂 I still use the Eclipse Keybindings even after 10 years of Jetbrains IDEs 😅
I started out in Eclipse when I made my dumb small Minecraft mods and whenever later in IT school the others used NetBeans I found its usability severely lacking, it felt clunky, constrained. But at least I got the ones that were on BlueJ off of that, lol.
I love how transparent they are in their long-term goals.
Rider uses Roslyn heavily, so does resharper. it would only make sense for them to do the same with rust analyzer
JetBrains is best Brains
Hey, Turbo Pascal 6 was just perfect! Borland C++ was also a thing of beauty - allowed me to complete my first coding job back in '94, too. Taught me to use the debugger and not to overuse it.
Turbo Pascal 6 was amazing. We still used it in CS class at my school in the early 2000s. I had only dabbled in QuickBasic before and some x86 assembly via notepad. Compared with that, Turbo Pascal felt like someone handed me a power tool. Sure it was outdated 16-bit DOS based but it had everything to build even complex programs with. Including inline assembly which I loved to mess around with. Good times.
JetBrains/IntelliJ are a Czech company based in Prague. Yes they have quite a lot of russian nationals working there, but they aren't pro-russia.
You bring such a good vibe to the dev community and I'm sure a lot of people resonate with you.
Big tech joining the Rust foundation is what it needs to survive.
"what do you mean you dont want to call it REAP?"
Dyslexic me: "Dont ask, my friend, dont ask"
If I'm not mistaken JetBrains are a Czech company, not Russian.
On my M1 MacBook Air with maxed out ram, VSCode is faster to load and snappier to use than JetBrains stuff.
You're absolutely right about VSCode. Sure it has a ton of extensions and you can extend the functionality however you want, but plugins are a hit or miss (looking at you, Julia). With proper IDEs you don't have to install or configure anything, everything comes as one package, ensured to work the way God intended
"ensured to work the way God intended" hopefully. Most issues are fixed pretty quick though.
... unless it was on a 4K monitor on Linux with Wayland. Then it was ugly as sin (yes, I know it was a Java limitation - still frustrating AF).
RustRover turning me into a RustLover
2:43 thnx for mentioning ur xp with fleet. personally though, i do think fleet has a place for learners hoping on languages. one common base with consistent lsp xp.
Ever used IntelliJ based IDEs/editors on a laptop? If you like reducing battery life to 30 mins and seeing flames come out of the ports whenever the thing tries to autocomplete, I'd recommend it.
Vscode uses 200% cpu constantly for me so… no difference
It's weird to me that someone in chat suggested there would be "Russia-Ukraine drama" related to JetBrains. I've never heard even a hint of anything like that happening, and it doesn't make much sense since they're a Czech company and only released a statement that they're halting sales in Russia and Belarus, which most companies did as well.
Jetbrains used to have multiple offices in Russia, but they have closed those down. So I can understand where the user in the chat got the idea from, but to my knowledge Jetbrains has made the correct decisions.
@ its completely wrong decision to shut down offices in Russia since they made and named Kotlin pl after Kotlin Island (Russian Ко́тлин (Kótlin)), near St. Petersburg lol. I don't understand why cant russian devs be part of a company whose CEOs are literally russian dudes named Sergey Dmitriev and Valentin Kipyatkov
The founders of the company are russians. It is a common behavior - move to a european country and start a business here if you want to sell worldwide. Even the language they created - Kotlin - is named after russian island. So, basically it is a czech company but in fact, russian one
@ They are originally a Russian company, with employees from countries like Ukraine and Belarus. They are based in Czech Republic mostly so that they would not be restricted by Russian laws and reality in making great products that can be loved and used worldwide.
@@roman_shvets-q6t , thanks for clarifying 👍
Missing goland everyday at my new job. It was just simply good. Edge cases, sure. But VSCode is just not it. I sold my soul to past me, and started to use gopls with emacs (again). Still feel yuck, but better than the fauxpen source which is VSCode. The yuckyness is greatly reduced b/c i get to use Magit again. JC i love magit.
Just buy a license for it
Jetbrains are a Czech company. I don't know if this needs to be said, but Czech Republic is not Russia, nor is it in Russia. The closest office to Russia they have is in Armenia, which, again, is not Russia, nor in Russia. They also have offices in other countries, including the US, which is close to Russia, but is not Russia.
It's just easier to monetize a separate IDE so who can blame them
p.s. I've been using Rider, DataGrip and VSCode for frontend and CI/CD stuff and I really like it! I like Vim, but for me it's like a Linux text editor - is there anything particular that it can do better?
My only issue with this is that they're removing the IDEA plugin in favor of this
I think you misunderstood it. The blog post says:
"Like many of our IDEs, the functionality of RustRover can be installed as a plugin in IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate."
IDEA ultimate is meant to be the single IDE for all (except the C family). Some people like it, others like me, don't. I just use their all products license and keep the IDEs separate.
@@JaskierRezzoI think they mean community edition plugin which was free.
I tried vim/neovim because of you. Motions make sense but as an IDE for C# is just bad when coming from Rider. But I was able to learn IdeaVim and now all is good. Except that vim motions are way worst for me then helix ones... But a man can't have everything
I use neovim for just about everything now, and I rarely use C# anymore except maintaining existing projects, but 100% agree it is a terrible experience coming from Rider to neovim. C# is a language that feels completely different without an IDE, and I never found any editor using an LSP like OmniSharp to be a viable alternative.
@@ForeverZer0 I wonder if it's just because Jetbrain stuff is better. Because most people use LSP stuff for Javascript. But using WebStorm is just better. So I don't think it's C#, it's just LSP being a protocol, you can't really add features. And until you try something better you think it's great
Back in 2019 I spend time in jail with jetbtains engineers after protest in Russia and they inspired me to learn to code
I don’t care how a company stands with anything, but it has to offer a good product/service
intellij's rust plugin made me pretty happy, so i'm looking forward to testin gthis out.
All Products Pack - LET'S GO
Bought the JetBrains "All Products Pack" license back when it was first offered as the "Toolbox" license, and the yearly fee is still less than $200 which really is a no-brainer for me.
"Judge things by the time they were created in"
Vi dropping motions in 1976:
As a user of CLion for years for Rust development, I gotta say it is significantly faster startup without all the plugins CLion loads up for C, C++, Make, CMake, etc. on macos it looks like it is JUST the IDE, the base plugin and a cmake plugin. It also seemed to be slightly faster at indexing a project for the first time, but that could be project size as a factor, I was playing with different projects.
I'm not sold on ditching the open source development completely, and would like to see it forked so it can still be used in CLion.
JetBrains left Russia completely in 2022 and moved all the St Petersburg staff to Czech Republic. FYTF
Very happy to use this for all my Rust projects.
Fleets UI was absolutely beautiful, it definitely lacked features and the resource usage was disgusting
aboslutely nailed it with VS Code, ty, lol!
I am excited about this one
JetBrains is a Czech company not Russian.
You probably should google their founders
Regarding VSCode. When configured, it's a reasonable IDE (specifically c++). It feels somewhat like an IDE. Neovim, no matter how much you pimp it up, always feels like a text editor with bells and whistles tacked on. Which is what it is.
A coworker of mine hates neovim with a passion but uses vanilla vim. And to be fair to him, I've never seen a neovim user working as efficient as he works in vanilla vim.
@@B20C0 What is he editing/working on?
@@nitsujism Database engineer who writes a lot of his interface stuff in Perl, so you know he's a freak. :-P
@@B20C0 Fair enough. I don't think there's much dedicated IDE support for Perl so a pimped up editor like neovim is a good bet.
JetBrains made the start up time much shorter than it used to be, or maybe it’s the same amount of resources loaded and computers are faster. Just glad that they don’t follow the trend of using more resources as computers have higher and higher base resources.
Still waiting for a Zig IDE
Having used VSCode extensively for years, and now trying to play around in Neovim, I'm not sure I completely follow the reasoning. Much like Neovim, VSCode is a text editor that can be extended using plugins. It starts out with a bunch more stuff than Neovim, obviously, but, also like Neovim, it's similarly useless for serious extended development without any plugins.
It's just an evolution of the user experience (the package management, and the UI does have it's advantages) + a devolution of backend tech supporting it (it's electron, after all) of the Neovim "model".
"Just a text editor" that is 300 MB and takes multiple seconds to fully start up. When I want to use a lightweight code editor, why would I not wish to just use a lightweight code editor that has all the same functionality, is 6 MB, and starts up in milliseconds? If I want an IDE experience, I expect the heaviness, but I fail to understand the desire to have it when it isn't necessary.
That is the point people make. It is the heaviness of an IDE with the base functionality of lightweight code editor. It would be better to pick one or the other, because it is bad for both worlds: it instead sits in the middle as either a bloated code editor, or an IDE that lacks basic functionality, depending on how you look at it.
@@ForeverZer0are you writing from 2000s? 300mb for ide😂 on my m2 it takes much less than a second to launch. Tho, mb you’re a fun of raspberry…
@@tsolanoff You can like the editor, that's fine, whatever floats your boat, but let's not be silly and pretend that it isn't bloated and slow for what it is. If you think that any Electron app is fast, responsive, and unbloated, then your opinion is immediately discarded into fantasy land.
Don't let your personal preference in editor and tribalism toward it take away your ability to reason objectively.
@@ForeverZer0 Electron is not the fastest thing in the world, it’s true. But I don’t understand the problem: 1 sec to launch editor, and? The speed of typing is not affected (also there is vim plugin to simplify navigation and editing), tho it’s not so important since it takes more time to think than type. In comparison, vim with extra plugins (which require to sell your soul to the devil in order to set it properly for your platform) = constant war with bugs and errors.
@@tsolanoff One second until you see a square window on your screen is not the same as a "full startup", which I made the explicit distinction in my original reply.
It should be noted that your personal experiences with Vim are not everyone else's. I don't care about your choice of editor, if you like VScode then you should use it, I genuinely mean that. I merely made an objective, empirical, and measurable observation on a technical aspect that is completely detached from personal opinion, it was not a personal attack on people who choose vscode anyways. If you don't mind the performance and resources problems that is objectively has, then there is no problem with you using it. No different than me not having "bugs and errors" and knowing how to configure vim correctly makes it a good choice for me.
Your choice of editor has no bearing on my life whatsoever.
its not a fully russian company nor was it ever fully russian. they made their position very clear at the start of the conflict and they handled it well.
"It's a floor wax, it's a dessert topping"...
I'm a noob when it comes to development, it's more of a hobby for me. But I absolutely love jetbrains pycharm!
On the Russian company part, a whole lot of Americans were against the US invading Iraq due to WMD’s which never existed. It’s important to remember that governments and militaries are not usually a true representation of all of the people in a nation.
having that as a separate ide from clion makes sense. it would not have sense if that would be an ide only for zig.
I love IntelliJ and PyCharm, wish I could afford the rest of their suite.
JetBrains je s hrdostí vyroben v Česku 🇨🇿❤
By russians ❤️
I was wondering why we normalized the notion that software should be free for the user
This led me to give it a try.. But the moment I tried to run it via SSH, it was using some other IDE, not RustRover.. That was weird from a first time user's POV. Anyway I'll wait for them to have a remote version before trying again.
Time to make my language development...
...bLaZeNgLy FaSt
Also I'm a student
Let's just forget that copilot exists
the hunter's dream is fulfilled, I die now
How is the creation of a Rust IDE the fulfillment of Hunter Biden's dream?
What part of vs code being slow do you mean? I don't feel it being slow (but I also haven't worked on very large codebases yet). When I read about people liking vs code, they very often say it's so lightweight.
If you're comparing to a full IDE like (regular) Visual Studio or a JetBrains product, VS Code is fast. If you're comparing to a text editor like (Neo)Vim, VS Cose is a snail.
As a Russian, I was very pleased to hear your opinion on the current situation. I like that you are not biased towards all Russians, although unfortunately there are many people who are. Many of us watch your videos/streams and enjoy it immensely. Thanks Primeagen, keep going!
As long as you consider it as a "current situation", you still be hated tho.
@@winchester2581 what word do you suggest using instead? When I say "situation", I'm not talking about the war, I mean the "situation" where people are hated based on their nationality/country of birth and that's it.
So, I'm not sure whether you get me correctly and already say "you'll be hated too".
@@rasulomaroff And why is "the situation" is happening? Tell me.
You can't blame citizens for what governments do.
@@winchester2581 man, are you trying to provoke me into anything? I understand that it can be hard to admit this depending on different circumstances, but regardless of the situation, you cannot judge a person based solely on their nationality or country of birth, otherwise we will all quickly slide into hatred of each other.
Don't judge a book by its cover.
I've been using the Rust Plugin for CLion and it's been pretty good as long as you don't need to create your own macros.
Yes, u can be from US and still be a normal person!
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Rust.... the crates should be called spores. The IDE should be called Blight. the users... shroomers? Or mycelians...
I actually can’t understand that hype over vim. Yes, it’s provides great features for navigation through file and editing that makes it perfect for ones who constantly deal with such things (sysadmins maybe). But for development, coding, debugging… it’s fcking shit: onerous configuration, bugged plugins, errors…
That is such a dope name
started using it as soon as it showed up in my toolbox...
What window manager do you use?
JetBrains s.r.o. is a Czech software development private limited company.
I love Jetbrains, but Fleet is VSCode without the usability (currently; I'm sure they'll get there, but not yet). Very interested in Rust Rover though
Prime is 100 years old bro's been programming forever in every possible language
Hes the one the job applications want when they require 20 years from a brand new language
I believe it's Apache licensed so it's fine; It's a permissive licence.
I like the support. Bought ultimate while also a neovim iser
The only problem with JetBrains IDE for me is it's a RAM hog
It's the main reason I never use any of their IDE's.
I mean, it shouldn't really be a big problem nowadays when people install 64+ GB of ram
@@Liphi Surely you can upgrade to 64+ GB on a modern laptop
It's good that VS code is not an IDE, I don't want an IDE.
I basically use it as an editor with LSP, the rest I do through a command line.
I don't know why I'm listening to you... but you're awesome 🤣🤣🤣
CLion debugger for rust is amazing. playing with RR-EAP
Is it a complete trainwreck on wsl like intellij?
While we’re on the topic of companies existing in problematic countries… some companies are American 💁♂️😱
I've used intellijidea with rust plugin already, RR looks like the same but with new skin
Isn't JetBrains a Czech company?
Me after accidentally closing an IntelliJ IDE: 👦>👨>👴
it wouldbe nice to see a video of how to use vim debugger in action. That's the only reason why I use webstorm over vim atm.
I thought NetBeans was so cool back in my Java days and also thought Eclipse was awful
insane jetbrains meatriding here
finally rust will have a good ide
That one chatter who said they stopped using Jetbrains IDEs when they switched to a subscription model is cheap af 😂 Obviously quality tools must be maintained and people should be compensated for quality work
Most people who don't like subscription models aren't in it for the money. They just don't want conditions put on their access to a tool that they have incorporated into some regular activity, especially if the regular activity has the potential to lead to emotional investment in the tool. Developers, gamers, and artists especially are prone to getting emotionally invested in software. But its also just becomes less worth continuing a subscription once you start; the longer you are subscribed, the more money you have invested in the tool for roughly the same utility (ignoring security/bug fixes).
Sure, developers need to be able to get paid for the technical quality and amount of contributions they make at work, and their employer needs to be able to pay them, but this can be done without robbing the user of their past investment of the product. They don't want to do this though because a subscription basis gives them a more stable less innovation-dependent revenue. Creating new things is much more difficult and risky than riding a wave. (this is largely devils advocacy though, and is intentially igoring the holes in this reasoning in order to present it in defense of people who don't like subscription models)
@@homelessrobot _Ignoring security and bug fixes_ so just ignore the most important part of having a quality, reliable tool to make your point, huh?
I'm specifically talking about Jetbrains, and they do not use the sub model as an excuse to not innovate. I'm surprised other devs think products like IDEs are truly one-and-done, unless they themselves don't build products in domains that must evolve by their nature.
@@vulpixelful yes, but peoples aversion to a subscription model generally isn't jetbrains specific. I would guess not even amongst such high quality defect free people as jetbrains users.
And yes, ignoring security. Nobody looks at a selection of programs and goes 'the one with the best security gets my money' first. First they evaluate whether they actually need/want the software. You don't get bonus points for making a super secure and bug free program if nobody wants it.
@@homelessrobot It's lazy thinking to make a blanket judgement about subscription models. It also depends on your circumstances.
Personally, I find that Jetbrains tools help me to be more productive in my job which I find to be very valuable and my company pays the subscription fee. If I wasn't getting that value (I knew I would because of the community edition) and/or if I couldn't afford to pay for it on my own, maybe I wouldn't pay for the subscription 🤷🏾♀️
Considering value and affordability on an individual level is different from being against all subscription models for tools. I don't know if you've ever had a toolset that unlocked productivity and understanding for you, but after I have a reasonable _yearly_ subscription is almost a trivial consideration.
I know @ThePrimeTime doesn't like VS Code, but I happen to really appreciate, I like that it's in between, as I use some features of both and always found full IDEs get in my way. Directory list, and integrated terminal ftw imo.
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JetBrains delivers every time
I thought they were just moving all their things over to Fleet
The only thing that is significantly better than the vscode setup is the debugger.
Everything else is almost same.
Refactoring in IntelliJ is light-years ahead of VS code.
@@boomras4716 from my experience both are very similar in refactoring