I took a class at Hecatina Studio and he showed me a particular piece Sergio had done. Crazy piece, but when you zoomed in, the lines were a bit hectic, but the volumes were gorgeous. Just goes to show how important and impactful it is.
You have no idea how much this video spoke to me, lol. I have struggled with SO MANY of these same confusions and frustrations at UNHELPFUL advice people give. Thank you for this video!!
This is good, touches many things I struggle to convince people about. A well rendered shape will look good regardless of blending, but a well-blended but confusing shape will not. The only difference is I continue to use zenithal, but I imagine a larger and thus softer light source. A single bulb desk lamp from a meter away is a very hard light. It also means I don't have to worry about marrying the front and back highlights.
Thank you so much! I just watched this video, as well as your video on glazing, and they have totally changed my thought process on these techniques. I can't wait to start practicing!
This is great, I have been a film maker for the last 7 years and I had the same thoughts about this. Most of the time we follow these cinamatic rules of lighting someone from a 45 degree angle and not from the top beacause that is like you said: unflataring. I never saw someone apply this technique to minitures. But now I finally found someone whith the same thoughts and apply it beautifly!
As a photographer, light direction is everything. Lighting directly from the top or side will give a very harsh edge light with strong contrast. Generally, that is only used as a "kicker" or "highlight" to accompany a primary light that is softer and generally from the front and only slightly raised above the subject to allow shadows to fall naturally. Also consider the atmosphere around the subject. Something next to a dark wall will have subtractive light and be darker on that side, or the opposite for something standing next to a bright surface will reflect light back towards the subject on that side.
This is a pretty good video, and really good advice imo. I dont have a background in any kind of art, so when I started I thought 90% of painting a miniature was achieving smooth blends and contrast and the other 10% was color choosing. I believe taking miniature painting as a serious art let us create more clear goals and organize better the knowledge and techniques around it. It has been a while since I painted my first miniature and I want to believe I have improve it a lot, but I will give a try to not blend and just focus on volumetry, thanks for your content!
@@ataraxiapainting @OmegonEdge is also an oil painter, he just started his Patreon career. He is quiet responsive and a very nice person, learned from him a lot!
I think the zenithal light is still a good and easy tips for minis supposed to be on the battlefield, since you mostly see them from far and above. But I think this advice somehow became part of the display painting general advice.
Interesting, I think painting a mini is overcomplicated at times with advice on painting. I think your entry looked fantastic. I've been painting 30 years, my technique has changes and improved over the years. I then to use washes and dry brushing to get my highlights and depth to work, I have add speed paints but not as they are used over a black and white base, I use them over base colours, like a wash, to add extra depth. Great video.
Great video. After 30 years of painting i try to tell people these things but they generally glaze over and give me "but (insert random youtuber) who started painting last year says". Paintings a personal thing. Do what you like n stop worrying about other people lol
Zenithal (the rare times I used it) I found needed like a general ambient greying spray to highlight more of the model, and then a targeted highlight - but unless you wanted a targeted single source of light you really just needed more spray (again) to catch the bits it would miss. And all it really achieved was what I would achieve with a drybrush, or just going straight into highlighting from a good basecoat. It may cut corners on some models, but for a lot of them it just felt clunky and often left the model looking incoherent.
Completely agree on zenithal priming. The ONLY time I use it is when I’m painting an ass ton of crappy board gaming minis and I’m not too worried about detail so much as just getting something painted on the table, for my friends to drop on the floor. And that’s when I’m using the “Slapchop” method with Army Painters Speed paints.
Well, almost nobody is using zenithal for artsy fartsy pieces anyway. The whole point is to suffer and take years to finish it, so that you can brag about how cool the techniques that you used are. However, each technique has its uses. Even with zenithal, if you're skilled you can work on top of it and get whatever effects you desire. There is no wrong way to paint a miniature, you just have to know exactly what the miniature is for.
@@thrrax aye, I see all these really good painters using Zenithal…and then they just paint over it. I can see it being used as a “guide” as some have described it: “this light source above (ie white paint) shows where to apply the brightest highlights”. But yeah, kind of o er the whole Zenithal thing. Again, unless I’m using Speed Paints in which case, Zenithal does a decent job of providing depth very quickly. But, those are for “table ready”, certainly no competition!
The bigger the light source is in comparison to the model you light, the smoother the transition between light and shadow will be. Zenithal highlight is good IF you want to add a dark and bulky look to your model, something dangerous, angular, where you want to cover up its eyes to create some mystery. But it sucks for most human figure. What you can do is moving down the light by 45 degree and tilting it by 45 too. It'll create what is called a butterfly (or paramount) light pattern. If you want more contrast to your model to show the volume you can move the light 45 degree on the side and you'll have what is called a Rembrandt lighting. Lighting and shadow are a thing but the main issue in the hobby is that miniatures got TOO MUCH CONTRAST and vibrancy everywhere when it should serve a purpose toward the story you want to tell with it. Cheers. 😄
Glad to read this! It really depends on how well it goes, because putting up a product on a website has a monthly fee so I have to be able to cover at least that! Thanks again!!
I shit you not .. my FIRST MINI EVER was painted with side light. It was a snake mini from some DnD board game I started painting as adult, with some caual expirience in drawing (2D)... for me it was natural to decide where light comes from and made lower left in shadow, upper right in full colors. But when I showed it to few people who have painted for years they "corrected me" that "we paint minis with light from top". ... Only recently rediscovered the concept when started playing around with OSL, that minis look much better when not painted "stright from up".
A. Being surrounded by cats is bad? *slowly pushes cat off my hobby desk* B. Great video. This actually makes sense, whereas all the other videos jump a little too deep into things for basic painters. Reasonable goals and skills to practice. C. You only need to sell PDFs to have parental approval? Might you post a video on how to do this next?
I've been doing zenithal highlighting incorrectly all this time. I tend to highlight from and upper front angle when I do this. How about that? I also like combining edge drybrushing (slap chop) with zenithal highlighting, looks good if you don't overdo it.
I've been thinking of painting an army so the sun is always to the front and off to the right / left depending on who's side they are on. Does this sound like a good idea?
When i am in the metro system, i try to see how the fabrics of peoples clothes reflect light....and its not at all how we paint it, or how gw wats us to paint it...and the hair of people ..we should not give highlights to the hair of minis because the representation of hair on a person so far away doesnt show where the highlights should be unless you are one meter away from the person...the ORCS were AMAZING!!!
That’s good you are noticing that! I struggle with looking at real life because light is a bbchh and it gets reflected by pretty much everything. Looking directly at the model with slightly frontal light helped a bunch! Btw thanks!!
Brand new to the hobby and picked Black Templars for my first army, so glad I watched this cause , I’ve been told that black armor is really complicated to make look good. I also love your energy, you don’t take yourself too serious. Thanks for the advice. (You’re gorgeous by the way) respectfully.
Finally a callout against zenithal light; as someone coming from 2D digital art to miniature painting, everyone's constant talk of shining a white light straight down as the only guide to lighting made me feel like I'm going crazy, since that's a lighting setup that you will use *extremely* rarely in digital art - and while I understand that the point is that these minis are used to play tabletop wargames, where you want a fairly neutral light on your minis and where people usually look down on the table, you will still be looking at the minis' fronts when "checking them out" more often than looking at them from straight above. I noticed that a lot of board games using plastic minis actually notably account for it - they (e.g. the Talisman series, or Gloomhaven) will often have the figures subtly tilted backwards, exposing their front to the players in a slightly unnatural way, or straight up pose the characters to have their torsos/head facing upwards, because the front of the character is important and must be shown off well to the players. Just found your channel today, but I already greatly enjoy all your content, almost on par with my favorite minituber, Zumikito. Both of you come off as very practical, no nonsense, and actually giving workable lessons to people who don't want to just speedpaint and aren't pro at painting already (Marco Frisoni is a great guy, but so many of his videos feel like "just apply the paints correctly and everything will look great (: ", not realizing how much of what he considers simple or obvious is actually hard to grasp for mini painting amateurs like me). Thanks for all the effort you put into those videos!
as a mini/figure painter who spent 3 years in film school studying cinematography and then working in the filming industry for 10 years... I know how light works and applying it to painting is.. well has been a breeze.
Well that’s a bit extreme (I like it ahah) but sure the trick is to figure out what’s the specific thing they are good at and use em for that single thing. Does it make sense?? Idk guys it’s hot here 🥵
Zenithal highlight application is not from directly above. Both your diagram and your phone over your head are wrong. A standard Zenithal highlight is applied at a 45° angle adding more to frontal exposure than you were implying. It’s also primarily used as an undercoat technique (unless you’re Angel G) not a final highlighting schema, Just saying. That said a volumetric highlight is not far off just over more of the surface.
Well actually the word zenith is ‘the point in the sky or celestial sphere directly above an observer’ so technically like mid day. I personally was told to put the lamp above the mini and not in front 🤷♀️
@@ataraxiapainting And yet, Zenith Tv's had nothing to do with a celestial sphere, or the sun, or light from above. Yes, I'm mocking root dead words out of context. Similarly, the word Zenithal (in the context of miniature painting) refers typically to an undercoating technique typically not from above, and most commonly taught as applied at a 45-degree angle. Reddit, Brushstrokes, Miniac, and many other channels taught me that... maybe the "thal" just adds all the extra juice! 🤷♂
need to avoid blending? wtf... what a bad video, sry... putting not the needed practices into blending is not a reason to blame blending. Blending is my nr. 1 rule and often I use for 1 piece, example pants only 2 colors, with "perfect" blending between them. And about your false information to zenithal highlighting: no one recommends straight zenithal highlight from above, its always the talk about a 45 degree or so... Naa... dont like this video at all. Before u teach people, learn about what u wanna teach... and the title is also missleading, no thx...
I remember your project in the Golden Demon, it was one of my favorites of the category, congratulations! 🙂
High praise ❤
Oww thanks! It was also nice to meet you there!
El Maestro. The Frazetta of miniature painting. 😊
I took a class at Hecatina Studio and he showed me a particular piece Sergio had done. Crazy piece, but when you zoomed in, the lines were a bit hectic, but the volumes were gorgeous. Just goes to show how important and impactful it is.
I love the passionate outrage and fury that you throw at the camera, as well as the absolutely solid advice you are giving. Consider me subscribed!
You have no idea how much this video spoke to me, lol. I have struggled with SO MANY of these same confusions and frustrations at UNHELPFUL advice people give. Thank you for this video!!
This is good, touches many things I struggle to convince people about. A well rendered shape will look good regardless of blending, but a well-blended but confusing shape will not.
The only difference is I continue to use zenithal, but I imagine a larger and thus softer light source. A single bulb desk lamp from a meter away is a very hard light. It also means I don't have to worry about marrying the front and back highlights.
Agreed!! Can you see the lights in the lower part of the model tho?? Glad it resonated!
There is a reason why certain painters are considered masters to this day due to how they could make use of light in their works.
Thank you so much! I just watched this video, as well as your video on glazing, and they have totally changed my thought process on these techniques. I can't wait to start practicing!
This is great, I have been a film maker for the last 7 years and I had the same thoughts about this. Most of the time we follow these cinamatic rules of lighting someone from a 45 degree angle and not from the top beacause that is like you said: unflataring. I never saw someone apply this technique to minitures. But now I finally found someone whith the same thoughts and apply it beautifly!
What amazing advice!!! Thank you!
As a photographer, light direction is everything. Lighting directly from the top or side will give a very harsh edge light with strong contrast. Generally, that is only used as a "kicker" or "highlight" to accompany a primary light that is softer and generally from the front and only slightly raised above the subject to allow shadows to fall naturally. Also consider the atmosphere around the subject. Something next to a dark wall will have subtractive light and be darker on that side, or the opposite for something standing next to a bright surface will reflect light back towards the subject on that side.
This is a pretty good video, and really good advice imo. I dont have a background in any kind of art, so when I started I thought 90% of painting a miniature was achieving smooth blends and contrast and the other 10% was color choosing. I believe taking miniature painting as a serious art let us create more clear goals and organize better the knowledge and techniques around it. It has been a while since I painted my first miniature and I want to believe I have improve it a lot, but I will give a try to not blend and just focus on volumetry, thanks for your content!
This video is absolutely dead on correct. Great job
Thanks mate!!
Switching to oils has improved my miniature painting a lot. You can just focus on volumes, and blending becomes a breeze. :D
Teach me oils then ahah Marco frisoni won’t reply to my emails about tutoring ☠️ lol
@@ataraxiapainting @OmegonEdge is also an oil painter, he just started his Patreon career. He is quiet responsive and a very nice person, learned from him a lot!
Did you not watch the video, @2:18 she said ABSOLUTELY NO BLENDING!!! I'm just kidding dude, painting with oils are awesome!
@@ataraxiapaintingdid you try joining his Patreon???
I think the zenithal light is still a good and easy tips for minis supposed to be on the battlefield, since you mostly see them from far and above. But I think this advice somehow became part of the display painting general advice.
Purchased your PDF guide and was not disappointed! Hope your dad will love you now ;)
Nice!!! Idk about that tho, if he does he hides it pretty well 🥲🥲🥲
Interesting, I think painting a mini is overcomplicated at times with advice on painting. I think your entry looked fantastic. I've been painting 30 years, my technique has changes and improved over the years. I then to use washes and dry brushing to get my highlights and depth to work, I have add speed paints but not as they are used over a black and white base, I use them over base colours, like a wash, to add extra depth. Great video.
Great video. After 30 years of painting i try to tell people these things but they generally glaze over and give me "but (insert random youtuber) who started painting last year says". Paintings a personal thing. Do what you like n stop worrying about other people lol
Zenithal (the rare times I used it) I found needed like a general ambient greying spray to highlight more of the model, and then a targeted highlight - but unless you wanted a targeted single source of light you really just needed more spray (again) to catch the bits it would miss. And all it really achieved was what I would achieve with a drybrush, or just going straight into highlighting from a good basecoat. It may cut corners on some models, but for a lot of them it just felt clunky and often left the model looking incoherent.
Oh I have a whole video about zenithal priming where I really pissed people off ahah (I just don’t like it)
If you make a termy guide and a fabric/cloth guide, i would buy both!
Noted 👀
Completely agree on zenithal priming. The ONLY time I use it is when I’m painting an ass ton of crappy board gaming minis and I’m not too worried about detail so much as just getting something painted on the table, for my friends to drop on the floor. And that’s when I’m using the “Slapchop” method with Army Painters Speed paints.
Well, almost nobody is using zenithal for artsy fartsy pieces anyway. The whole point is to suffer and take years to finish it, so that you can brag about how cool the techniques that you used are.
However, each technique has its uses. Even with zenithal, if you're skilled you can work on top of it and get whatever effects you desire. There is no wrong way to paint a miniature, you just have to know exactly what the miniature is for.
@@thrrax aye, I see all these really good painters using Zenithal…and then they just paint over it. I can see it being used as a “guide” as some have described it: “this light source above (ie white paint) shows where to apply the brightest highlights”.
But yeah, kind of o er the whole Zenithal thing. Again, unless I’m using Speed Paints in which case, Zenithal does a decent job of providing depth very quickly. But, those are for “table ready”, certainly no competition!
I find a bit of water with shade paints… works a treat!
The bigger the light source is in comparison to the model you light, the smoother the transition between light and shadow will be.
Zenithal highlight is good IF you want to add a dark and bulky look to your model, something dangerous, angular, where you want to cover up its eyes to create some mystery. But it sucks for most human figure.
What you can do is moving down the light by 45 degree and tilting it by 45 too. It'll create what is called a butterfly (or paramount) light pattern. If you want more contrast to your model to show the volume you can move the light 45 degree on the side and you'll have what is called a Rembrandt lighting.
Lighting and shadow are a thing but the main issue in the hobby is that miniatures got TOO MUCH CONTRAST and vibrancy everywhere when it should serve a purpose toward the story you want to tell with it. Cheers. 😄
Agreed, but I feel like this is more advanced; this video was more for beginners and people’s first steps in trying to improve!
Your orruks are amazing!
Thanks!!
Are you gonna do more of these guides seems like i could learn allot more from you i really love this painting style and wanne try it myself
Glad to read this! It really depends on how well it goes, because putting up a product on a website has a monthly fee so I have to be able to cover at least that! Thanks again!!
I shit you not .. my FIRST MINI EVER was painted with side light.
It was a snake mini from some DnD board game
I started painting as adult, with some caual expirience in drawing (2D)... for me it was natural to decide where light comes from and made lower left in shadow, upper right in full colors.
But when I showed it to few people who have painted for years they "corrected me" that "we paint minis with light from top".
...
Only recently rediscovered the concept when started playing around with OSL, that minis look much better when not painted "stright from up".
A. Being surrounded by cats is bad? *slowly pushes cat off my hobby desk*
B. Great video. This actually makes sense, whereas all the other videos jump a little too deep into things for basic painters. Reasonable goals and skills to practice.
C. You only need to sell PDFs to have parental approval? Might you post a video on how to do this next?
THANK YOU for this!
It you're focusing your light source to the top and front, how do you deal with volumes at the back?
Did you watch the video till the end??? cause if you did you'd have the answer 👀
Thais Great! No zenithal light means I don’t need an airbrush
Cool as always. 👍
I've been doing zenithal highlighting incorrectly all this time. I tend to highlight from and upper front angle when I do this. How about that? I also like combining edge drybrushing (slap chop) with zenithal highlighting, looks good if you don't overdo it.
I'm gonna try this. Thanks Alice.
I've been thinking of painting an army so the sun is always to the front and off to the right / left depending on who's side they are on.
Does this sound like a good idea?
I like that idea. Please let us know how it went when you're done. I think I'll try this on one of my minis. Thanls for the inspiration.
@@TheGoldenDragon_ It will take a long time... I don't paint often
@@OccasionalChainSmoker No prob. I'm kinda the same and I'm a super slow painter.
But if you do front lateral schadow arent the whole back of the mini in a ugly dark shadow? How do you deal with that?
ok I watchet to the end and it is 1000 times harder than zenithal highlights 😅
Ugh! I just bought both of your pdfs, but I can't figure out how to get them. :-(
SlapDash seems easiest and fastes, i can always add extra highlights after.
Hey new sub here, like your channel.
Is there anywhere you have photos of your miniatures?
Hey welcome!! Sure, my Instagram in the description!
When i am in the metro system, i try to see how the fabrics of peoples clothes reflect light....and its not at all how we paint it, or how gw wats us to paint it...and the hair of people ..we should not give highlights to the hair of minis because the representation of hair on a person so far away doesnt show where the highlights should be unless you are one meter away from the person...the ORCS were AMAZING!!!
That’s good you are noticing that! I struggle with looking at real life because light is a bbchh and it gets reflected by pretty much everything. Looking directly at the model with slightly frontal light helped a bunch! Btw thanks!!
I want to eat this oreo
Brand new to the hobby and picked Black Templars for my first army, so glad I watched this cause , I’ve been told that black armor is really complicated to make look good. I also love your energy, you don’t take yourself too serious. Thanks for the advice. (You’re gorgeous by the way) respectfully.
Loved this video 🔥🤘❤️
GW does edge highlight so much that it just doesn't look right .
Yes but that’s for display in print media …
guess they gotta show off the sculpt's details as much as they can, and then its down to the painter to do whatever they want with it?
Resume. Do your reference photos trying diferents lights.
Stop yelling at me for all the things I'm supposed to do wrong when I haven't even started painting yet.
Is the PDF in English? As the shop part of the website is in another language.
Yes the pdf is in English! I don’t know why some parts are - I’m guessing - in Italian, weird. Gotta look into that! Thanks!
I see Ork, i click.
Same lol
Great to take into consideration. Gonna ditch my second lamp for a bit when trying to paint the good paint.
good
Is it tho???
Well, we can't have you becoming an under caffeinated, lonely, cat lady. I'll guess I'll have to buy the pdf 🤷
Ahhaha guess so 🤭🤭
Hey I'm su scribing again soon! Been having a hard time but I'm gonna send another piece for critique!
You look polish
Finally a callout against zenithal light; as someone coming from 2D digital art to miniature painting, everyone's constant talk of shining a white light straight down as the only guide to lighting made me feel like I'm going crazy, since that's a lighting setup that you will use *extremely* rarely in digital art - and while I understand that the point is that these minis are used to play tabletop wargames, where you want a fairly neutral light on your minis and where people usually look down on the table, you will still be looking at the minis' fronts when "checking them out" more often than looking at them from straight above. I noticed that a lot of board games using plastic minis actually notably account for it - they (e.g. the Talisman series, or Gloomhaven) will often have the figures subtly tilted backwards, exposing their front to the players in a slightly unnatural way, or straight up pose the characters to have their torsos/head facing upwards, because the front of the character is important and must be shown off well to the players.
Just found your channel today, but I already greatly enjoy all your content, almost on par with my favorite minituber, Zumikito. Both of you come off as very practical, no nonsense, and actually giving workable lessons to people who don't want to just speedpaint and aren't pro at painting already (Marco Frisoni is a great guy, but so many of his videos feel like "just apply the paints correctly and everything will look great (: ", not realizing how much of what he considers simple or obvious is actually hard to grasp for mini painting amateurs like me). Thanks for all the effort you put into those videos!
this video just seemed like a rant, it was difficult to follow for a beginner
Well duh I always rant 👶
@@ataraxiapainting your other videos have been helpful :) just constructive criticism.
I love you, get out of my phone and enter in my life ❤
Are you sure about that?? I’m an hot mess ahah
as a mini/figure painter who spent 3 years in film school studying cinematography and then working in the filming industry for 10 years... I know how light works and applying it to painting is.. well has been a breeze.
In a good sense? 💀🤭
Good to know it only takes an investment of 13 years
Do less. That's the best advice to improve and get minis done to most people in the wargaming hobby.
Fuck zenithal highlights. That is all.
Yaa
...let's face it...the paints themselves all suck to varying degrees and for various reasons...
Well that’s a bit extreme (I like it ahah) but sure the trick is to figure out what’s the specific thing they are good at and use em for that single thing. Does it make sense?? Idk guys it’s hot here 🥵
Zenithal highlight application is not from directly above. Both your diagram and your phone over your head are wrong. A standard Zenithal highlight is applied at a 45° angle adding more to frontal exposure than you were implying. It’s also primarily used as an undercoat technique (unless you’re Angel G) not a final highlighting schema, Just saying. That said a volumetric highlight is not far off just over more of the surface.
Well actually the word zenith is ‘the point in the sky or celestial sphere directly above an observer’ so technically like mid day. I personally was told to put the lamp above the mini and not in front 🤷♀️
@@ataraxiapainting And yet, Zenith Tv's had nothing to do with a celestial sphere, or the sun, or light from above. Yes, I'm mocking root dead words out of context. Similarly, the word Zenithal (in the context of miniature painting) refers typically to an undercoating technique typically not from above, and most commonly taught as applied at a 45-degree angle. Reddit, Brushstrokes, Miniac, and many other channels taught me that... maybe the "thal" just adds all the extra juice! 🤷♂
need to avoid blending? wtf... what a bad video, sry... putting not the needed practices into blending is not a reason to blame blending. Blending is my nr. 1 rule and often I use for 1 piece, example pants only 2 colors, with "perfect" blending between them. And about your false information to zenithal highlighting: no one recommends straight zenithal highlight from above, its always the talk about a 45 degree or so... Naa... dont like this video at all. Before u teach people, learn about what u wanna teach... and the title is also missleading, no thx...
Fine. I’ll go cry now for wasting 50 hours of my life to make this 🥰
9 minutes to say "have a lamp" is crazy
Is it tho???
10 minutes to say "paint with a frontal light instead of zenithal light"...please spare my time next time
Fine. I’ll go tell my mum, you’ll regret this comment!!!!11!!