Sparring Along the Matanikau and Douglas Munro’s Medal of Honor with Dave Holland-Episode 117
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- This week Seth and Bill are once again joined by Guadalcanal expert and friend Dave Holland. The trio breaks down some of the lesser-known, but still vitally important, clashes along the Matinikau River in September and October 1942 during the ongoing struggle for Guadalcanal. Tune in to see what the team learns and discusses along the way.
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I always find the story of Munroe's mother, Edith, very touching and inspiring. After FDR presented her son's Medal of Honor, she joined the Coast Guard reserve (SPARS) at 48 years old and served for the rest of the war.
The final part of this episode about the trials of living after war (PTSD) is great. Heartbreaking but Bravo Zulu. As best as I can tell, my Uncle ( who enlisted in the Corps with 12 of his friends on 12/8/1941) spent a chunk of 1943 as an AA gunner at Henderson Field. The first time his Sister (my Mom) and parents heard from him in 1943 was a letter at Christmas. We also had a photo of him on an AA gun crew with the note Henderson Field on the back. All 13 guys made it home but one of them spent the rest of his life in a fog (called shell shock back in the 1970's).
We civilians need to be careful to only send other Americans into harm's way for good reasons; we are too prone to do so for demoguguery or out of fear. My sole contribution is approximately 15 years working to give war fighters (mostly Navy and Marine Corps) the best equipment and training possible. My uncle would not typically talk about his time in the Corp to anyone but he would mention a little of it to me. It wasn't until about a year before he died that my Grandpa showed me the scar he had down his right leg (hip to ankle) from being shelled at Chateau Theirry (US Army First Division regular). Listen and care for those who have fought. Thanks is not enough.
Thank you, and we agree.
I recall a couple of families where I grew up that, in the '50s and '60s, had fathers who resorted to alcohol and/or physical abuse of the wife and children. The response, back then, was to mind your own business. It took me a long time to realize that we had taken the Greatest Generation, young men at the prime of their impressability and taught them by training and by practice that force and violence were the solution. Some were not able to let go of that when they came home.
It is such a necessary step forward that the military now puts effort into preparing for the return to civilian life - certainly not enough, but it's a start.
@@richreed9927 great point
My relatives who were WW2 veterans were in the PTO but they didn't see combat up close. I had another grandfather who was in WW1, and I know it affected him a great deal. Sadly he died of lung cancer before I was born, so I didn't know him, but I heard a lot of stories. I know a lot of people smoked back then, but I suspect the smoking was also another way he self-medicated, in addition to alcoholism, and apparently he had a violent temper.
The two Marines I've known well were both Vietnam vets and they never said anything about it. Just didn't want to think about it, I figure, but they seemed well-adjusted by the time I was around. Both outstanding men who really had a big impact on me growing up, shaping me into the man I am now in different ways, so I will always have a particular affection for the Corps and all who join it. But you're absolutely right, we need to avoid war as best we can, so that men like these and those they serve with do not have to suffer.
@@richreed9927really well said and you hit it on the head. I have a nephew that was a combat Medic in Iraq 2003 to 2006. He's got PTSD and it's very severe. The only thing he ever told me about the war over there was the fighting was not only constant but brutal. And part of his job was to follow the tanks in a Bradley and pick up body parts after they've been hit by an ied. He doesn't drink and he's an excellent father and husband with no signs of violence or abuse but he's very very quiet. I love my nephew dearly and I wish there was something that I could do for him. The VA has been virtually useless. The Army needs to do something for its returning Warriors to help them reintegrate into society and from what I can see they're doing a piss poor job of it.
As an Australian, I wonder whether you could do something on Milne Bay and Kokoda Track. Particularly Milne Bay was very important. The Aussies couldn't have done Milne Bay without the P40s that just made it in time and those wonderful US Army engineers who built the runways. Apparently the US engineers lined up with the Aussie 2nd AIF and CMF blokes on the same side of the third runway and turned back three charges.
Gentleman I’ve actively searched for channels like this often. TH-cam let me down. Finally found you. Now if you’ll excuse me I have about 100+ hours to catch up on. I’m gonna need some coffee. ✌️
Coffee does help!
Seth, Bill, and Dave, thank you all once again for these podcasts. You guys are in my top tier of shows I insist on watching every week!
I go to the hospital in Temple TX for my own treatments, but seeing there these young service-men and women with no canes or braces -- only the stare on their faces -- showing evidence of wounds unseen, really breaks me up. Thank you, Capt Toti, for giving these folks their due. My limp is obvious, their injuries, not so visible, but their wounds are in a real sense much deeper.
From Bill-- yes indeed
I love the way y'all highlight individuals. Makes it all the more real, especially learning how people react in battle. So much heroism.
44:00
I was promoted to Machinery Technician First Class while stationed in the USCGC Munro (Signalman First Class) in 2003. So his story is a bit special to me.
And correct, so far, he is the only Puddle Jumper to be awarded the CMoH.
COMPLETELY AGREE with all the compliments on Dave and his TH-cam channel - his content is fantastic.
he's a keeper!
Dave Holland is THE BEST source for anything Guadalcanal related! Happy to see you were able to tap his knowledge for these episodes.
Thanks for the show but especially Bill for those closing remarks re PTSD. Folks without don't understand folks with. It's better today but in Canada it's still the elephant in the room.
My God, this podcast keeps getting better. I started with your episode on the "green hell" of new guinea and am now utterly obsessed. I have always been interested in the pacific since my brother and i red "the battle of lete gulf" in jr high. Now im a history teacher and am using this incredible chanel to prepare for my upcoming class on ww2. You three are an inspiration to me.
Great show guys. My dad, a WW2 Pacific (Pearl Harbor USS West Virginia ) was assigned to the USS Gridely, D-380 early 1942. He told me a story of taking a unit of USMC Raiders up a river at Guadalcanal. Evidently the river was very narrow and needed to put sailors ashore with lines to manually assist rotating the Gridely 180 degrees. So the story goes ! Keep up the great work!
It took a very long time for me to discover this channel but I am entralled now.
Another very fine episode and a guest canine appearance with Seth!
I cannot express how much I love your channel. I have for decade been studying the Pacific theatre WWII. All of you guys are wonderful contributors surpassing by far all others commentators on the subject. I watch you daily at 5:00 pm with a premium cigar and a glass of Cabernet. I am learning war in the Pacific to a depth never before experienced. Thanks for your work.
We are glad you enjoy it. We enjoy doing it!
Seth
According to the Medal of Honor Society one of the marines that Munro rescued off that beach that day was future medal of Honor recipient SGT John Basilone.
That’s not correct as Basilone was left back on the southern perimeter line with the heavy machine guns.
Now maybe I know why my grandad loved planes and flying since Guadalcanal. Thanks Dale Leslie. Those flags I remember as a kid. I’ll ask more about the scout / sniper story’s.
Another great show gentlemen. Also Dave's YT channel is excellent.
Dave thank you for bringing up the names of those seldom mentioned.
Outstanding video, as always. I've been following Dave's channel for some time. The photos he posts on Facebook are amazing. His knowledge of Guadalcanal is second to none. Ty Seth, Bill and Dave for another fantastic video!
Enjoyed the episode. Thanks for the talk at the end about PTSD. As a nurse who has lived a sheltered life because of the men and women of the US military it is good to be reminded of why it is important to take special care of people who have been in combat.
Bill, I was a Field Arty officer in the early sixties with the 2AD at Ft. Hood in a 105 unit and was also in a NG FA bty. We shot a lot of rounds manufactured for WWII. The round is armed by the twisting it gets going up the tube when it is fired and is "live" very shortly after it leaves the muzzle, altho it is considered bore safe. This is the same for all the fuzes we used. All of them would blow if they hit something regardless of the setting. For the gun crew the difference between direct and indirect fire was you could see the target with direct firing. In the Pacific the U.S. used tanks very effectively against Japanese bunkers.
My mom and grandma built those till almost the 80's, Actually, my Grandma sat with her buddy and armed and put the pins in grenades while drinking ice tea all day.
PERHAPS you could contact World Of Tanks and explain to them that ARTY ROUNDS DONT BOUNCE ARMOR..... PD FUSE means just THAT.
Patton called the 155mm the ultimate anti-tank gun
@@johnthomas2485
My father was in a 155mm unit in Italy (1). One time he told us about how they had a fire mission against German armor. He said the FO observer could see the shells skipping across the ground until they hit either a vehicle or some other obstruction
1) 173rd Field Artillery Group. Formerly part of the 32ID. They got split off when the 32nd was converted to a triangle division set-up. So they missed New Guinea. Instead they toured sunny Italy from Naples to Venice.
To hear the cold hard facts, in such detail, is an education for any war history buff.
No slant, no history re writes, just the truth.
Love it. Cant get enough.
🇺🇸 Thanks gents. 🇺🇸.
Imo, Chesty should have gotten the MOH for the Guadacanal campaign. In fact, they should still upgrade one of his DSCs to the MOH.
Clearly, The man was pure warrior, right through to the bone.
Thanks so much for all the work you are putting into these videos. They are fantastic.
To all who served during this time period. Thank you for what you did. And please always remember you are not alone. You have many brothers and sisters who would do anything for you humanly possible to help you.
Thank you so much. Vandergrift is still a bad word in my house 3 generations later but sure appreciate hearing from you all. Great videos.
We had family with those raiders as well as the 4 other pacific vets in the family RIP. He didn’t make it back though. Sure appreciate trying to piece things together with your help.
It's very valuable to provide context like this that is between and sets up the "big" battles that tends to be the foci of cursory popular history.
Very strong and powerful episode. Thanks for all you guys do.
Coxswain Samuel B. Roberts on 27 Sept 1942 did the almost exact same thing protecting Marines at Guadalcanal and received the Navy Cross. He also died from his wounds. However he later had 3 ships named for him. The first DE413 who distinquished themselves at Battle of Leyte Gulf with it's captain LTC Copeland also receiving the Navy Cross. The USS Samuel B. Roberts lies at 22,000+ ft, the deepest sunken ship ever found to date. 87 of her sailors and 3 of her officers lie with her.
Binge watching the episodes, and this one is a real tear jerker with the mini Dunkirk. Just an amazing episode. Much much much respect for Captain Toti. Dave Holland really brings the history a very real personal touch and feeling. Seth is fantastic at piecing all the parts together and explaining the big picture to the viewer. I have to say that Captain Toti brings the feeling of a true American hero and the kind of leader enlisted people hope and pray to serve under. It's just an amazing podcast, so well done and presented. Never Forget... Never Ever Ever Forget 💝💝💝 Subscribed to Dave's channel...
Dave is a fantastic guest, I'm glad y'all had him on for all these Guadalcanal episodes!
Edit: Just got to the end of the episode and once again Captain Bill knocks it out of the park, PTSD is a big problem and to hear someone like him speak about it is fantastic. Hes spot on with it being a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Yet again, another outstanding video. The details are so amazing, so captivating, and I just love them. And how the three of you interact is just terrific as well. You never seem to talk on top of one another, and just fill each other in regularly. Listening to the stories you all relay makes me feel like I was there. I have read (and own) a LOT of WW II books, and I documented these in my website (computer training/support website, which has nothing really to do with the War per se, but I could not resist) as recommended reading on WW II, which includes the book 'Marine', which I read years ago. (My website also lists WW II documentary type videos to watch as well as the books, and I rate all the books and the videos, based on criteria I show and define, and allow the reader to alter to make their own ratings.}
But somehow I missed that Chesty Puller (or I forgot!) had a son, and what happened to him. That is so tragic. And Bill's description was so moving. I really like that guy! Another very famous WW II soldier that suffered from PTSD was Audie Murphy, which probably is why he made only one war movie, the one about himself. On a side note, I also would like to say that my wife was born 5 year to the day after the battle on Sept 25, and I was born 4 years to the day (+1) of the ending of that battle on Sept 28! Well, just love your videos, and the very special people you bring in to shed more detail on the subject.
Thanks for all the additional details regarding the action along the Matanikau. Lots of new stuff for me. I'd like to add my agreement with the chap who asked about coverage of the mosquito boats in harassing the Japanese. My only recollection of this type of action is the radio exchange between Willis Lee and 2 Pt boats the night USS Washington slugged it out with Kirishima.
An excellent and informative conversation gentlemen. My thanks as always.
Love the podcast...spreading the word.
Thank you.
Your video and perspective on MacArthur was very interesting. Many Australian commentators are not very impressed with his tactical micromanagement from Brisbane and unfair criticisms of commanders and soildiers on the ground. Also Australian General Blamey is likewise heavily criticised for his treatment of the men on the ground.
Yes. This is one more critical series of engagements that almost no one, including me, had any knowledge of. The parity of forces made it a very close-run thing, indeed. One can only speculate on the consequences for the entire battle for Guadalcanal if it had not been successfully executed. Thank you for more on Chesty, but also for putting names on the other heroes almost lost to history. This was my second look at this installment, and I will be surprised if there are not several more. Excellent.
Thank you and Semper Fi
you make great discussions . Thank you. t
Sometime down the line you might talk about The Lewis B. Puller, Jr. Elementary School in Dong Ha, Vietnam.
Thanks!
You are missing the opportunity to tie in with the New Guinea fighting going on at the same time by the Australians. The Japs viewed it all as the same theatre of operations. More troops for Guadalcanal meant less for New Guinea etc.
We discussed it in an earlier episode
I always plug that line every time I get a chance. It’s such an important point and being US and Australian I especially realize the important connection between the 2 campaigns.
Thank you very much
1:00:03 M3 75mm GMC halftracks were the old French 75mm gun mounted on halftracks, so it had the full range of 75mm arty ammo in addition to its AP round. Their normal mode of operation was direct fire, these were sset up as AT weapons. Fusing could be point det for soft targets or base det for hard targets. Never ask a submariner things any surface warrior knows.😃
There was another version that mounted the short 75mm pack howitzer for use as either direct or indirect artillery, this was the T-30 75mm HMC.
It's a real shame, my Uncle down in The States works for The V.A, and yet seems to actively despise his patients.. I just hope that isn't a widespread mindset, he served with the garrison in Germany, but resigned from the active military just before Desert Shield/Storm, though his story always varies as to why.
In "Neptune's Inferno", James Hornfischer describes the Monssen, DD-436, as the destroyer that Chesty Puller motored out to. Monssen had a busy day, attacking enemy positions several times while waiting for her cargo ship she was escorting to unload, before aiding Puller and his boys. Sadly, this is the same DD that would accompany Adm. Lee & the Washington in November.
I was gunner on 105s PD(Point Detonation) Fuse detonates on contact, VT (Variable Time) Fuse is set with a wrench as per Fire Direction Control for airburst or delayed in ground detonation. The barrel twist rotates the round and the fuse acts like an egg timer clicking off until time expires. You can't shoot VT over water. This is 1980s knowledge.
Intrigued by all those books on the shelves behind Dave Holland.
The 75mm cannons used by the US in WW2 were all descendants of the French CdM 1897.
The US adopted it as the M1897. It was updated as a field piece to become the M2. In tank mounting it was essentially the same except they changed to a wedge breech. All these fired the same ammo (AP, VT, PD, BD, WP, HVAP, et al). The little 75mm pack howitzer used the same projectile but a smaller case. It was also vehicle mounted as the T30 GMC and the M8 GMC.
For Bill, indirect fire doesnt have to use VT, thats airburst shrapnel for troops in the open. Against bunkers you would use BD (base fuse detonation) so the shells would penetrate a little. The 75mm halftracks would have been M3 Gun Motor Carriages. These were part of the AT companies in the Marine infantry regiments. They were armed with 75mm M1897 and intended as tank destroyers and direct fire support. They could (and would in other theaters) be used for indirect fire. There was a 105mm version (T19 GMC) although I dont think any went to the PTO.
"Sometimes agressive tactics work. Sometimes they dont work."
Very true.
Good inteligence, planning, and support seem to be deciding factors.
As a Coastie you learned about this dude like 6 times in Boot Camp lol
I served in 1/7 Marines. 26 years after Guadalcanal. I was in D Company. Somewhere along the way, C 1/7 had picked up the nickname “Suicide Charlie”.
They picked the name Suicide Charlie up at the Battle of Henderson Field in Oct 42.
@@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349 Thanks Dave. I always wondered. Looking forward to watching that episode.
Call it superiority or control or ???, Henderson Field's daytime reach (plus intel) prevented the Japanese from using the transports that could not only carry men, but also cargo like food and heavy weapons.
thank you
No other channel on You Tube comes remotely close to this one on chronicling the history in the Pacific theater .
Douglas Munro's mother wanted him buried in their home town. The small city of Cle Elum, Washington has a remarkable veterans Memorial to Douglas and other veterans. I have stopped and paid my respects to Munro when I have gone through Cle Elum. The cemetery is just a short way off of Interstate 90.
Edit: Chesty Puller was the person to nominate Munro for the MOH.
You guys ever think of adding visual aids to your presentation like maybe a map
Thought about it and would like to do it, but neither Bill not I are graphic artists, and I simply don’t have the time.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar yeah I kind of figured it would be something like that still love the show 🙏🏼❤️🇵🇭
Those halftracks that Dave said were providing fire support with the M1897 guns (French 75) sound like M3 gun motor carriages, but all of my sources indicate that they weren't used by the marines until Saipan. If Dave has sources to the contrary, I'd like to know what they are.
This is Seth- I had mentioned the halftracks that had the 75s mounted on (in) them and somewhere I have images of these vehicles on the Canal. The source, aside from the images, is Rich Frank’s book Guadalcanal.
Try Zimmermans Marine history, unit reports of the 1st Special Weapons Bn ( where the half tracks were), Franks Guadalcanal, Griffiths Guadalcanal, Millers US Army official history, Hammels Starvation Island, Stan Jerseys book, 1st MarDiv official record of the campaign, 5th and 7th Marine unit reports, Vandergrifts book, Twinnings book, Wheelans book and Merrilats books are just a few sources that mention the 75mm halftracks.
The Marines also got plenty of use from them on Bougainville and Cape Gloucester. There is a great photo of one going ashore at Gloucester.
Check out the Chieftains Hatch article on the Matanikau River. He has sources listed at the end. 1st Special Weapons battalion had 3 batteries, each battery had 2 M3 GMC tracks and 6 37mm towed guns. Each infantry regiment AT company would have had 1 M3 GMC platoon and 3 37mm platoons as well
7:53 Notice the Marines are using a captured Japanese Daihatsu landing craft to unload the transport.
At ~1:10:00, Puller did the 20th Century version of putting a telescope to his blind eye.
I read somewhere that in Vietnam the USCG had the highest casualty rate of any of the service branches.
Great show, excellent insight. What books would you recommend on Guadalcanal, just finished Shattered Sword, great read.
First book would be Richard Franks Guadalcanal. Then go off from there.
@@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349 Thank you, just bought it on Amazon, While I was there also found Neptune's Inferno and Midnight in the Pacific, good info??
@@josephairoso8013 yes both are good
If you're interested in the naval side I'd recommend Neptune's Inferno by James Hornfischer
This will probably stick in Dave's craw but I read recently that the Marines just graduated the very last scout sniper class that they will ever have. After this class there will be no more training of Marine Scout Snipers! Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock has got to be rolling in his grave right now. Why they didn't learn the lessons of Gunny Carlos Hathcock in Vietnam is a head scratcher. He and his spoter held a company of NVA in place for over 3 days while they picked off their command and control, all their officers, leaving the NVA with zero initiative. They had no idea what they were supposed to do. Why the marines, or any branch of the service for that matter have no understanding how to use a sniper is beyond me.🇺🇲⚓️💯💖☕️
Yes you’re correct. They have gotten rid of the scout/snipers. But have kept the band. War fighting at its best.
Who is Dave Holland? He sounds like an Australian who has lived in the US for some time. He knows his stuff.
Interesting how the M3 Gun Motor Carriage performed well on Guadalcanal Campaign and did so poorly in North Africa. (BTW - Seth -- I see that you have another co-host there (with four legs 😀)
The M3 GMC performed very well in North Africa. Several Africa Corps armored attacks were stopped cold by M3 TD battalions.
Douglas Macarthur gets himself a political "Medal of Honour" for running away from his Philippines debacle which stains all these brave recipients of WW2.
Are we purposely ignoring the contributions of the mosquito boat squadrons in harassing the Japanese resupply efforts?
Not purposefully by any means. In late October there were 8 of these ‘Devil Boats’ operating out of Tulagi. They mainly operated between the narrow part between Savo Island and Cape Esperance. A few still remain there.
Please post a link to Dave's videos?
www.youtube.com/@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349
youtube.com/@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349
www.youtube.com/@guadalcanal-walkingabattle5349
Can Bill. Or someone... Talk about who captain Mc vay... And Annapolis.. or Indianapolis..
Sorry I have no clue...
Wait... Right near 1:22:00... Maybe a few seconds earlier..
Seth says... About it being the high point... And where we give it to them the hardest..
Then Dave says... that's the high point for the JAPANESE.??? I'm quite confused by this...
Can someone explain... Cause I swear I'm understanding what they are saying right...
I even listened to it over and over... Form about 1:21:50 to 1:22:10...
I might now have explained it right.. but it just sounds like they say the opposite of each other
sorry it is some small, I am happy to contribute more, but my limited skills have foiled mu efford - kia kaha
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
So Dave, an Aussie was a US Marine?
I was born and raised in the US. After 8 years in the US Marines I moved to Australia
Navy Cross is such a Downgrade ???
Quit calling it the Pacific war....we were at war with Japanese.
To hear the cold hard facts, in such detail, is an education for any war history buff.
No slant, no history re writes, just the truth.
Love it. Cant get enough.
🇺🇸 Thanks gents. 🇺🇸.
Imo, Chesty should have gotten the MOH for the Guadacanal campaign. In fact, they should still upgrade one of his DSCs to the MOH.
Clearly, The man was pure warrior, right through to the bone.