I’ve been a P2 Covenantor for years and I’m so excited to see this behemoth making a mockery of the U.K.’s inclines in a couple of years 😂 Planning on taking a trip up once the trust has moved and settled into their new HQ across the field. 🙂 And then once she is up and running my £££ will be going right to the V4, and then the V3!
The A1 Trust really seems to have a knack at picking appealing (at least to me lol) LNER locos to build; I wish them nothing but the best! As for Prince of Wales and inclines, think we’ll see a new record for heaviest load taken up Lickey unassisted?
@@mewtheenigma2732 agreed mate, I think it helps that the LNER is so under represented in preservation but the A1/P2 are halo engines in their own right and in the letter’s case very unique. And then Highlander and a V3 means a lovely fleet of apple green LNER designs ☺️ And we will have to wait and see regards and haulage records but I cannot wait.
You’ll definitely have to come back to Darlo in 2025 for the Stockton and Darlington Railway Bicentennial celebrations! The museum is having a huge number of updates, including a whole new building for these guys and their future locos!
They aren't. It's a steam engine or steam locomotive, NOT a steam train.... Why do adults insist on calling a steam locomotive a steam train? It's the sort of thing a kid would do. It's called a train when the coaches or wagons are attached.
@@MySteaming realistically, does it matter? Everyone knows what is meant by that. If you wanted to be pedantic steam engine isn’t correct either bc they’re stationary. Let’s all just enjoy trains bc we’re all kids inside that like to see big metal things go fast
Not a new boiler but just the usual 7 year overhaul for mainline locos. It was going to get one of the 2 new boilers being built but delays meant they overhauled the original boiler.
Showing a narrow gauge engine followed by a mainline standard gauge engine really displays the harrowing difference in scope for such a project. One is like that fun tinkering project in the shed you keep messing with, the other has you essentially set up an entire engineering and assembly workshop along with QA department and definitely an accounting department in there somewhere as well. I wish these mad lads all the best, and I can't wait to see the P2 make its debut on the mainline :)
Astonishing achievement, simply astonishing. I'm a little confused on the choice of name they have chosen for this locomotive ... "Prince of Wales"....especially as Gresley designed the P2 locomotives to run in Scotland. I would have thought a traditional Scottish name would have been more appropriate, as with the others in this and similar classes ...A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3' s. Sadly " Duke of Rothesay "...as The Prince of Wales is known in Scotland..had already been used on an A2/1 -- LNER no. 508 ..latterly by BR as 60508.
8:53 There footage of the Class A4s when they were briefly allowed to run at 90mph, and it is absolutely amazing. Still shy of the 100+ they were designed to run at, but still brilliant. Hopefully Prince of Wales will be allowed to do the same, because that would be a sight to behold 🤞
4464 Bittern got special dispensation to run at 90mph in 2013 to celebrate the 75th anniversary of Mallards record run and what a sight to behold that was! However in 2017 the trusts very own Tornado got permission to have a crack at exceeding 100mph. Older locos were limited to 75 mph due to their age. But Tornado was brand new, so they appealed for regular mainline running speeds of 90mph. So they set out to prove their worth. Tornado smashed the 100mph barrier! I don't know if they now have permission to run at 90mph, but I really hope so!
The P2s semi-streamlined form helped influence the iconically peerless A4, so it it's good it is being recreated for the 21at century. Was crushed the unavoidable delays to Tornado's delay in overhaul meant it was not available for mainline tours last year. The A1 looks so cool.
I have a slight feeling that the T1 trust over here in the US is going to become the American equivalent of the A1 trust. (What do you think they would build next?)
If they were to build another, I'd put my money on NYC Hudson. Simply because of how iconic they are, everyone knows a Dreyfuss Hudson yet none are left.
If they do build another, I hope they decide on a Niagara. An amazing loco and a massive shame none were preserved. I'm looking forward to seeing the T1, with that fabulous Raymond Loewe styling. It should be able to shift a bit, too. If anything can break the speed record, a T1 can. I'm a Brit, by the way, but I'd love to see it happen.
I think it would be cool if they made a Reading I-10sa, they are probably some of the best Consolidation type locomotives ever and they look good as well. The other locomotive I would really want someone to remake is the Class A 4-4-2 Hiawatha from the Milwaukee Road.
I remember that there was a another Pennsylvania duplex, locomotive that didn’t get preserved, but was widely believed to be very good. I don’t remember the name, but I have a hunch that they might be more willing to do that than a Hudson. Then again, though popular demand might make them consider making a New York central locomotive like the Hudsons or Niagara’s. If they did make a Hudson the locomotive, I would want to see them make next would be one of the Hiawatha’s’s of the Milwaukee Road, although those are probably a bit too different in design from either the Hudson or the T1 for them to be comfortable with doing that
I've been keeping up with this project for a couple of years, and I'm in love. I've loved the P2 for years, and I love this project. it's just phenomenal
Thanks to modern computer CNC and CAD tooling available today, this steam locomotive will probably be built to the tightest manufacturing tolerances of any steam locomotive ever built. This thing will purrr on the rails (I mean chuff).
@@Here_is_WaldoI'm no expert, just making an observation. Likely following the blueprints for initial reference, but using modern machinery and computer modelling to finalise and to cut out the important key parts, like moving parts, and possibly even the boiler. Any finishing touches or extra accessories probably still by hand. But good chance all the maths are double and triple checked on computers before building out the parts. For all the safety regulations regarding pressurised boilers nowadays. Anybody else more educated can explain it better then me.
You are correct! Original drawings are referenced but the entire engine is modelled and designed in cad before anything is made or machined. Precision modern engineering!
This is amazing!! And the fact it's going to run on the BR Mainline is awesome. I can't wait to see the P2 in all it's finished glory. Wishing these amazing people loads of luck from the USA to the UK :D
Lawrie you are one very lucky guy, I sincerely hope you get invited back during the build so you can give us update videos. Sorry but I have to use that word that you said you were using too much, the video and the project are truly "Amazing" 👌👍.
It would be interesting if they could construct the A4 streamlining kit to go with it as it might be interesting to see it in that form at a later stage ?
another company announced that they were going to contrust a working replica of 2001 in her A4 Bugatti streamlining however, since the announcement, there has been no updates apart from the fact they a have had the frames made.. this was sometime ago..
They would basically need to rebuild the smokebox end to convert it to the A4-style streamlining. It's extremely unlikely that 2009 will ever appear in that form
@@buffplums No, it includes a differently shaped smokebox. You can see there's a small angled section on the top of the one here; the A4 style smokebox looks like a cylinder cut in half diagonally, kind of a similar idea but much more extreme. All the boiler cladding would need to be replaced as well.
What is the basis for the "most powerful claim?" A P2 never exceeded the 3500 hp put out by 71000 or 6234. If it's based on tractive effort, that doesn't work either. Even a Robinson 0-8-4T had a higher tractive effort, let alone a LMS Beyer Garratt, or a U1. I don't wish to diminish the tremendous work going into this loco, but let's put an end to this specious "most powerful claim."
And here I thought the strongest was the 9F. I can't wait to see that locomotive blasting down the line. Speaking of newly built express locomotives, are you going to see the T1 in 2030?
I can’t wait until T1 5550 is finished! I’m a huge fan of the streamliner era of the 30s and 40s and the T1 being one of the last chapters of that era is certainly one of the most unique art deco pieces ever created. What is also interesting is that when finished it will be exactly 100 years since the streamliner craze happened with the railroads so it is sort of an interesting way to commemorate that 100 years later.
The strongest was the gwr king class. Not sure where they are getting this nonsense from. Br tested the king at it put out considerably higher tractive effort than the 9f
American 2-8-2's would be too big to fit European loading gauges and they weren't all that big by US standards anyway. If they wanted something bigger they put more wheels on it. By the time a USRA Light Mike was slimmed down to suit European loading gauge you got the SNCF 141R which is fairly comparable to the P2. The USRA Heavy Mike apparently had the same running gear as the Light Mike but it looks like what it was, a luimbering great freight locomotive.
Staggered by the ambition. Always loved the look of the P2 (Greasley fan boy here). This is a case of not doing something because it’s easy but because it’s hard, to me the Saturn 5 of British steam.
Gresley's Steam Locomotive designs were way outdated. George Churchward was designing far better stuff 30 years earlier in 1900 for the Great Western. If you knew anything about locomotive development, you'd know that Gresley's latest design (4-6-2 Flying Scotsman type) was tested against a 4-6-0 Great Western Castle Class loco in 1923. The Great Western Castle wiped the floor with Gresley's latest 4-6-2 both in draw bar horse power & coal usage efficiency. So much so that Gresley took his failed locomotive design back to Doncaster Works with his tail between his legs & modified the 4-6-2 Flying Scotsman Class to bring it into line with Great Western design practices. The practices of George Churchward of 1900 & his successor CB Collett. You may like to know that when the newly created British Railways needed some new motive power in the late 1940s & 1950s, they also copied Great Western & LMS (Stanier) designs also.
It's really a special thing, this. A big, fast, 'modern,' 8-coupled steam locomotive flying along UK mainlines, a classy-semi streamlined look, and, of course, The Next Number on the side of the cab. and just seeing everything...literally brand-new on it. no rust pitting, no nothing, almost...better than you could see one in the works of the LNER. Like it's a bespoke, handbuilt superloco. So cool. ...Now if we can only convince them to use Dave Mcloud's "Mikado" in the presentation video when it's done...
Oh I'm definitelty willing to make a Donation of 10 or £20 for Prince of Wales because I've been desperate to see her completed since first laying my eyes on this Welsh P2
Love it one thing I never thought they would do is build steam engines in this day and age its fantastic seeing it come together it gives you a true sense of the quality and craftsmanship that goes into building one
In the day, they were often slapped together by skilled craftsmen, but without the modern techniques used in this build. Welding, CAD-CAM, fluid modeling, etc. P2 2007 will be far better.
There is (or possible was?) also another LNER P2 under construction by the Doncaster P2 Locomotive Trust, representing the class in their later form with the Bugatti front (similar to the A4s), which for me is the best looking version of these locos. Unfortunately I can't seem to find any recent information, last I heard they had cut the frames, but that was back in 2014
My favorite American 🇺🇸 steam loco to build a new version is Milwaukee Rd HIAWATHA 4-4-2, I designed a 1/8 live steamer for scale trak at 7&1/16"g. CLASS A 1935 ALCO with Art Deco Streamlining by Otto Kuhler, designed for 100 M.P.H., racing from Milwaukee South to Chicago, in only 85 minutes!!!!! From 1935, but only until 1954 when diesels like the EMD. F7A, or Larger E8A arrived. And the FAIRBANKS-MORSE C-Liners. And ALCO DL109 called "Needle-nose". But I grew up North in Green Bay, with the Packers of the N.F.L. Sadly born way too late to see steam. But also sadly the passenger trains were dying really fast. Due to the U.S. GOV. Support of JET planes with the F.A.A., and highways called the Inter-State. The Rails also LOST the U.S. MAIL contract to the JET planes which were New and Modern and FAST!!!!! But trains were slow and old. But the U.S. GOV. Decided to cut down train speeds from previously 120 M.P.H., to only 79 mph. Thus the steamers with high speeds were quickly SCRAPPED AND DESTROYED.. BUT THEN,, many rail Museums,, or Excursions,, were started to preserve the Romantic Ideal of the American trains that settled the WILD WEST. BUT....MOST steamers used for excursions were smaller freight engines like the 2-8-0 Consolidation which were designed for Freight.. YET only a couple had the 4-6-0 ten-Wheeler with 63" Drivers for faster speeds for passengers. But most excursions were set up on very old tracks, with lighter rails, and lack of maintenance that only let them go at 10 mph. When the RR Managers changed from steam to diesel in the 1950s, little did they realize, that in barely 24 years. The U.S. would SUDDENLY PLUNGE over the abyss of the Energy Crisis of 1972, and this disaster is Still With Us even now, 50 years later in 2023. But with high prices. And short supplies. And THOUSANDS OF MILES OF TRACKS ripped off for nature trails for joggers and bicycles 🚲. This also cut off the many manufacturers from the rail option that was energy efficient. But using only semi trucks 🚚, because each truck needs a driver. Yet trains can couple all those cars together and use only 2 crewmen of the engineer, and Conductor or Brakeman. Thus, given all this, and even more, when we rebuild the Hiawatha 4-4-2 Class A, we can also rebuild the mainline with new heavy rails that can now support both the weight of the new steamer, and the High Speeds, because of the New welded rails !! YET...There is still a chance that the passenger trains of America 🇺🇸, can have a successful comeback. And save us from their old foolish ideas. Hi in May 2023A.D and 88th Anniversary of Original 1935 HIAWATHA 4-4-2 STREAMLINER!!!!! ON WISCONSIN!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤!!!!!, GLORY ALLELUIA 🙏. AMEN ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏!!!!!
If I've had the money, I'd arrange for Milwaukee Road A 4-4-2 and F7 4-6-4 to be built, plus a NYC S-1b 4-8-4 Niagara, J-3 4-6-4 and finally a NYNH&H I-5 4-6-4....should be a crime that none were preserved! 😥
A pax rail comeback is unlikely, unless Agenda 2030 forces us off the roads. I was looking at going South Florida to Washington DC for Jan 6. Amtrak wanted only ~$250 round trip for 2 in a sleeper. Never made it.
After Lawrie waffling on about all the planning to think that back in the day they could totally refit a locomotive in 7 days. But it took the same time to paint one, so 2 weeks is still not bad.
This is the reason why I love the UK.. y’all have the ability and support to actually build a NEW locomotive… there is so much issue with American rail network and government, it’s almost impossible restore and operate one let alone build one from scratch. I know there is a group trying to build a new Pennsylvania T1 class, but that has been going on for ages with little progress. Which you all the best of luck with these builds and restrictions!
T1 is about 10 years in. Most of the early work has been archive and engineering. The A1 took about 20 years from the beginning, I believe. Steam has gained steam in the US lately. The PRR museum in Altoona announced the K4 from Horseshoe Curve will be restored. The East Broad Top has be bought and the entire mainline will worked on in phases, the 1st of 5 Mikados is back in service and the roundhouse and shops are getting needed repairs. They're rebuilding the entire railroad. Multi-millions have been invested in only three years since the scrapper who didn't scrap it sold. Other locomotive projects are ongoing. The main problem is most young people are glued to electronic devices. Young people need to volunteer, if they can. Steam needs young people to turn wrenches and learn the art.
Gracias por compartir este video. Interesante construcción de esta locomotora. Siempre me sentí atraído por los trenes ingleses. Muy muy bueno este video.
As I’ve said before it’s nice to have people around that can still be able to build equipment such as this especially if’s there’s a national emergency and the normal equipment is disable
@@psycotria I don't think phones themselves are the issue. Steam preservation is difficult to sell to many young people due to many other things flooding them and buying for their time and attention. With many kinds of interests and hobbies for people to have, selling them volunteering at a heritage railways ain't an easy feat. Take it from me, a Gen Z girl who would love to volunteer but can't due to a variety of reasons.
@@justwolfex Hi. The phone is just the Device du Jour. Back when I was young, we played with sticks and rocks, literally. The family's first computer was an Atari 400. It had 16k of RAM and a cassette tape drive. No internet! It took some of the time I could actually be doing something productive. (or unproductive.) They have evolved into the ubiquitous hand-held devices that do the "flooding."
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure on the rails and through time
I see that all 8 drive wheels have flanges. Don't the middle two axles usually have "blind" drivers, without flanges? This lets the locomotive negotiate sharper curves, which seems a handy thing...
The flanges on the middle two driving pairs will be set back a little more from the running edge of the rail than those of the leading and trailing driving pairs. On the 9F, which had five driving pairs, only the middle pair was flangeless and the 2nd and 4th pair were set back. the ruling curvature from which the necessary set-backs can be calculated is, I believe, 3 chains or 60 metres more-or-less.
Great to see you in my neck of the woods Lawrie. I'm a covenantor and look forward to the annual conference every year which this year will be in the new mainline connected shed. You should definitely come back up when she's finished and for the bicentenary of the S&DR in September 2025, that's going to be one heck of a weekend! I'll probably see you at a heritage railway somewhere, till then keep up the good work.
An amazing project indeed but I feel that you make a comment I, for one, would question...most powerful?, so what about 71000 or 46229 or 46201 which are all rated at 8P. Just asking
Always fascinated by these locos (but not the Thompson rebuilds). I'll look forward to seeing this on the line they were designed for. Only slight disappointment is the name..... I would have much rather seen it graced with a Scottish name, continuing the sequence.
The sheer scale of both the engineering challenges and the insanity of the people undertaking it is to be celebrated. I really hope this happens and I see it on the mainline as I’m rolling along in my Class 66.
Building new is so hard because building the physical loco is not even a fifth of the challenge. If you start from scratch, you're not building one loco, you're buidling a series. The first on the back of a napkin, the next in CAD and on paper, another in Excel and MS Project, and then the real one. And, most importantly, while you're building all of those, and the team and workshop to do it with, you have to build it in the minds and hearts of the people involved, and the public at large. That's the challenge.
I love this loco in every way except its name. It should be named after something or someone Scottish as that's where they were built for originally. She's a fair bit bigger than 303 though 😂
The entire front is painted, steam railway mag I think either paid for it or contributed so 2007 could go on the front cover a couple of years back iirc
Best footplate ride I've had was on the Derwent Valley Railway in Tasmania. Great experience but it wasn't on a P2. Congratulations. Love those shiny wheels, by the way.
Not more than a few months tops as 2007’s smokebox was taken off and moved horizontally so they could accommodate delivery of Tornado’s boiler (it’s mighty cramped in there lol but their new HQ is ready for them now) 🙂
Cough, cough..... Best estimates for the P2 are between 2000 & 2500 HP, and there are plenty of diesel locomotive with more than that (class 47 = 2250 to 2750, class 60 = 3000, class 66 = 3200, class 68 = 3800). As for tractive effort, the P2 is quoted as about 193kN which is long way behind the class 66 (409kN) and the class 60 (474kN).
What are they going to do with the inside valve gear because Gresley's conjugated didn't work well on the original. I must admit, I would rather have seen a Caprotti 2-8-2
When they tendered out Tornado’s boiler Meiningen was the best offer at that point, and for today it makes sense to go back to the works who built your original boiler to build you two additional boilers. Plus everywhere over here who do have the engineering capability are already swamped with work and backlogs for other projects/locos
Finally, an express engine that will permanently be in LNER apple green livery. No BR liveries can ever be used on it because it’s out of era. Although it might initially be turned out in photographic grey, or wartime black (for running in and testing).
not only is the amount of work involved in a new engine staggering , it is especially so these days,when I lived in Rochdale in the late 1980 early 90s , it was still very much a textile engineering town , and as we were into vintage fairground equipment we looked at the possibility of building a full size showmans traction engine, at the time we could of had eveything , and I really do mean everything manufactured in town , even down to the paint company that produced the original Burrell deep lake marroon paint. these days most of the skills to do this no longer exist and a lot of the facilities to make these components doesnt exist , so the trust getting these engines made in this country in itself is a massive achievement well done guys.
You're right it is very special and this is the sort of Engineering that Britain at time excelled at doing, made or built in Britain was something to be proud of
LAWRIE & THE NEED FOR A P2 TYPE !! "Double heading" meaning 2 locos at the front of the train, was the NORM on the Edinburgh - Aberdeen route on the HEAVIEST expresses. But "Axle weight limitations" prevented the use of TWO of Gresley's 4-6-2 Pacific types to be used. The only solution therefore was to build a larger locomotive design, with greater power & tractive effort, to obviate "double heading". Hence the arrival of the ONLY British 2-8-2 EXPRESS passenger engine design (the six locos in this class being classified P2 by the London & North Eastern Railway). So the "recreation" currently under construction is numbered 2007. Many aspects of this "recreation" are NOT the same as the original. As the organisation in control of this project have decided they will attempt to improve upon the original design with the aid of modern technology !!!!
@@lmm YOU ARE NOT CORRECT ! I suggest you refer to O.S. Nocks "History of the LNER", which clearly states exactly what I have said, and stop making things up as you go along !!! "Double Heading" was quite common with heavy expresses that often loaded to 15 or even more coaches, especially on the LMS & LNER. Try doing some research before going off half cocked !!! Train crew wages ! They were literally skilled but cheap labour. The cost of the coal on two locos would have been more, so the labour cost simply does NOT enter into the situation. You obviously need to research railway accountancy methods pre-war. By the way amongst my numerous railway qualifications are included BR Accountancy & BR Corporate Economics !!
Absolutely not a replica! We have always made it clear that both No. 2007 and No. 60163 would be the next members of the class, thus allowing a degree of elbow room in adapting the locomotives to the modern network. In the case of the P2s, every example of the original class were different and we are continuing Gresley's process of development with No. 2007, sorting the inherent weaknesses of the Lentz valve gear, changing the leading wheelset with a pony truck, using a Diagram 118A boiler and, of course, fitting ETCS. A 21st Century locomotive for the 21st Century.
I hope to see that beast running when I visit England at some point. Got to get up and close to the Union Pacific Big Boy and that steam train even made the diesel helper shutter when it went forward with its power. Also saw the special on Tornado on youtube when I was looking around and it is amazing to see how it was done. Another thing is that I wonder why James May has not seen this yet? He would love it.
Hush-hush would be quite an interesting project, particularly the boiler, the rest of the loco is "fairly standard".... Given modern computer power and materials it should be possible to iron out the problems before cutting any metal, unlike back in the day pencils and slide rules can only do so much.
was going to say they got it done already, thought was still a few years off, didn't hear of massive progress but it looks like its definately getting closer. as you say in the video that actually doing it today, they often say we cant do it we dont know how, thing is its just a matter of money and willing to get it done there are places that can make parts though fewer then were decades ago, but there are giant foundries that can cast the parts and drop forges that can form out the giant forged parts, and the research in metal and pressure vessle design still continues, there are many projects in the uk, yet in the usa fewer even though its a giant land, we got restorations but only two or three new builds, the wisscasset watervill and farmington narrow gage, and the prr t1 they say it cant be done, but they already in 6 years boiler is compleat save one part and tubing, and now onto the frame
I hope that they have better luck with the German boiler than 3801 (the Australian express pacific), which arrived and was found to be eliptical and out of square. So, they got technical college students to refurbish the old one.
@@andrewreynolds4949 that makes sense. Do you think other one is really just a spare or they are going to end up using it for the next locomotive that they’re going to build?
Garrett 6029 in Australia is a 4-8-4+4-8-4, with many videos on TH-cam, especially the parallel race with 3801 4-6-2 Pacific. And in India they have the Wide guage Garrat. And naturally in South Africa 🇿🇦 they have the narrow 42" guage 4-8-2+2-8-4, and other classes, ok!! Cool!! HI IN MAY 2023A.D. And in AMERICA 🇺🇸 in Cheyenne Wyoming, they have The UNION PACIFIC 4014 "BIG BOY" 4-8-8-4 ARTICULATED MALLET BUILT in 1941 for WW2, and pulling long heavy freights through the Wasatch Mountains to Denver, Colorado , and 8 BIG BOY Engines were saved at railroad museum, or displays in city parks all around America 🇺🇸 👍 😀!!!!! HI IN MAY 2023A.D.
And another 2-8-2 Mikado should be the GREEN BAY AND WESTERN RR, CLASS D-47, ALCO 1938, with Unique 64" D. BOX-SPOK. drivers, but the other RR's had the 1918 and WW 1 Era U.S.R.A. HEAVY, OR LIGHT 2-8-2, with only 63"D spoke drivers...., and used for freight across Wisconsin, from the East and shore of Lake Michigan by Kewaunee and the ferry S. S. BADGER, and West to Winona, Minnesota, by the Mississippi River. BUT.... all 6 of these rare D-47's were Scrapped and Destroyed by 1955. Yet, in 1956, this inspired numerous local businessmen. And dyed in the wool steam engine fans, to start the NATIONAL RAILROAD MUSEUM, as the very First major tourist attraction for Green Bay; but besides the Packers of the N.F.L., as the NRRM Grew very quickly until 1980, when the Original Founders of the Board voted to get some help from the local Outsiders Management Group, but they Never had any railroad experience whatever. Not Railfans or Historians. And quite openly hostile towards the many local and numerous volunteers from the model railroad clubs around Eastern Wisconsin. But those Outside Managers decided to both sell, and also destroy and Scrapped 13 pieces ranging from the steam powered crane from the Appleton Paper Company, and also the 2 small Plymouth gasoline switchers that moved coal cars at the local power plant. Luckily I was able to get photos 📸 of this destruction. Yet though they were Fired in 1986, the Destruction continued so that by 2008 this NRRM has lost 37 cars , including 8 diesels. The NRRM tracks were packed and crowded. Sadly now in 2023, there are many, many empty spaces. And 37 pieces of American RAILROAD history have disappeared, FOREVER!!!!! FROM STEVEN, IN MAY, 2023A.D. DEAR GOD, PLEASE HELO US ALL!!!!! AMEN ✝️ .
If it costs c£6m to make because it's non-standard and pretty much hand built. How does that compare to a brand new electric full-size mainline locomotive?
The largest steam locomotives built in Britain, but which did not operate there, were the New South Wales Railways AD60 class 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garret locomotives built by Beyer-Peacock Manchester, which were nearly twice the size of P2. They did operate regular passenger trains and were fitted with steam heating pipes.
Beyer-Peacock built locos for most of the world. I watched a company video from their heyday. Multi-gauge tracks in their large shops. I like the couple SAR NG/G-16 2-6-2+2-6-2 that now run on the WHR. 67 tons on 1' 11-3/4" gauge, with a tractive effort of almost 20,000 lbs. not to mention the original K-1 0-4-0+0-4-0 that worked on TGR from 1909 -1920s.
I just hope that someone get the same idea in Norway, and rebuild or build a copy OF "NSB Class 49" aka "Dovregubben" ("The Dovre Giant). (with adjustment to it's minor problems). her and her sisters was build to work on the steep inclines of Dovre railroad, With a lower top speed, for in return getting even more tractive effort. They was a beast in pulling power that would gladly compete with 9F, when it comes to brute pulling power. The Class 49 could deliver up to 2600 bhp over it's 4 cylinders. Would have been fun to see an Class 49, pull a large train up a steep railroad track
Interesting fact: when tornado entered mainline service it was the newest locomotive on the network for 3 years.
Wait, completely?
@@MOHAirborneFan yes both tornado and the P2 are brand new locomotives built from scratch and based on Sir Nigel Gresley's original designs.
@@LionGaming98 but no one else built any form of any loco in 3 years?
@@MOHAirborneFan tornado was finished in 2008 and the next new train on the uk mainline didn't enter service until late 2010, early 2011.
Thank God you didn't call it a steam train like most of the morons do!
I’ve been a P2 Covenantor for years and I’m so excited to see this behemoth making a mockery of the U.K.’s inclines in a couple of years 😂
Planning on taking a trip up once the trust has moved and settled into their new HQ across the field. 🙂
And then once she is up and running my £££ will be going right to the V4, and then the V3!
The A1 Trust really seems to have a knack at picking appealing (at least to me lol) LNER locos to build; I wish them nothing but the best!
As for Prince of Wales and inclines, think we’ll see a new record for heaviest load taken up Lickey unassisted?
@@mewtheenigma2732 agreed mate, I think it helps that the LNER is so under represented in preservation but the A1/P2 are halo engines in their own right and in the letter’s case very unique. And then Highlander and a V3 means a lovely fleet of apple green LNER designs ☺️
And we will have to wait and see regards and haulage records but I cannot wait.
You’ll definitely have to come back to Darlo in 2025 for the Stockton and Darlington Railway Bicentennial celebrations! The museum is having a huge number of updates, including a whole new building for these guys and their future locos!
I honestly didn't know people were making steam trains again, I love this.
There’s a dozen or so currently in progress, and another dozen that kind of still exist but not much happening of late.
They aren't.
It's a steam engine or steam locomotive, NOT a steam train....
Why do adults insist on calling a steam locomotive a steam train?
It's the sort of thing a kid would do.
It's called a train when the coaches or wagons are attached.
@@MySteaming realistically, does it matter? Everyone knows what is meant by that. If you wanted to be pedantic steam engine isn’t correct either bc they’re stationary. Let’s all just enjoy trains bc we’re all kids inside that like to see big metal things go fast
@@LewiBrom you're a fine one telling me it's not a steam engine!
The very person who calls it a steam train..
@@MySteaming don’t be that guy yeah 👍🏻
Thank you for making such an interesting and informative video from, basically, a pile of parts in a workshop. No mean achievement, well done!!
Isn't Tornado out for a new boiler,cant wait to see both locos one day together
It is but rapidly coming back together. And they are moving to the new HQ this month too 🙂
Maybe they could add a zeroloco boiler from the mackwell locomotive company
Not a new boiler but just the usual 7 year overhaul for mainline locos. It was going to get one of the 2 new boilers being built but delays meant they overhauled the original boiler.
@@mikesanders5433 Im glad to hear,Tornado is a favourite of mine
@@caledonianrailway1233 Well,maybe one day they might invest in them
Showing a narrow gauge engine followed by a mainline standard gauge engine really displays the harrowing difference in scope for such a project. One is like that fun tinkering project in the shed you keep messing with, the other has you essentially set up an entire engineering and assembly workshop along with QA department and definitely an accounting department in there somewhere as well.
I wish these mad lads all the best, and I can't wait to see the P2 make its debut on the mainline :)
Astonishing achievement, simply astonishing.
I'm a little confused on the choice of name they have chosen for this locomotive ... "Prince of Wales"....especially as Gresley designed the P2 locomotives to run in Scotland. I would have thought a traditional Scottish name would have been more appropriate, as with the others in this and similar classes ...A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3' s.
Sadly " Duke of Rothesay "...as The Prince of Wales is known in Scotland..had already been used on an A2/1 -- LNER no. 508 ..latterly by BR as 60508.
8:53 There footage of the Class A4s when they were briefly allowed to run at 90mph, and it is absolutely amazing. Still shy of the 100+ they were designed to run at, but still brilliant. Hopefully Prince of Wales will be allowed to do the same, because that would be a sight to behold 🤞
4464 Bittern got special dispensation to run at 90mph in 2013 to celebrate the 75th anniversary of Mallards record run and what a sight to behold that was! However in 2017 the trusts very own Tornado got permission to have a crack at exceeding 100mph. Older locos were limited to 75 mph due to their age. But Tornado was brand new, so they appealed for regular mainline running speeds of 90mph. So they set out to prove their worth. Tornado smashed the 100mph barrier!
I don't know if they now have permission to run at 90mph, but I really hope so!
The P2s semi-streamlined form helped influence the iconically peerless A4, so it it's good it is being recreated for the 21at century. Was crushed the unavoidable delays to Tornado's delay in overhaul meant it was not available for mainline tours last year. The A1 looks so cool.
That is some serious engineering work done there that’s going to be a monster of a train well done boys well impressed
My mate is the sole machinist for the project
I have a slight feeling that the T1 trust over here in the US is going to become the American equivalent of the A1 trust. (What do you think they would build next?)
If they were to build another, I'd put my money on NYC Hudson. Simply because of how iconic they are, everyone knows a Dreyfuss Hudson yet none are left.
If they do build another, I hope they decide on a Niagara. An amazing loco and a massive shame none were preserved. I'm looking forward to seeing the T1, with that fabulous Raymond Loewe styling. It should be able to shift a bit, too. If anything can break the speed record, a T1 can. I'm a Brit, by the way, but I'd love to see it happen.
I think it would be cool if they made a Reading I-10sa, they are probably some of the best Consolidation type locomotives ever and they look good as well. The other locomotive I would really want someone to remake is the Class A 4-4-2 Hiawatha from the Milwaukee Road.
@@shaqtus3365 Yes to a Hiawatha. Together with the N&W J class, one of the most elegant locos ever built.
I remember that there was a another Pennsylvania duplex, locomotive that didn’t get preserved, but was widely believed to be very good. I don’t remember the name, but I have a hunch that they might be more willing to do that than a Hudson. Then again, though popular demand might make them consider making a New York central locomotive like the Hudsons or Niagara’s. If they did make a Hudson the locomotive, I would want to see them make next would be one of the Hiawatha’s’s of the Milwaukee Road, although those are probably a bit too different in design from either the Hudson or the T1 for them to be comfortable with doing that
I've been keeping up with this project for a couple of years, and I'm in love.
I've loved the P2 for years, and I love this project. it's just phenomenal
Thanks to modern computer CNC and CAD tooling available today, this steam locomotive will probably be built to the tightest manufacturing tolerances of any steam locomotive ever built. This thing will purrr on the rails (I mean chuff).
Are they building it to modern abilities, or original blueprints?
@@Here_is_WaldoI'm no expert, just making an observation. Likely following the blueprints for initial reference, but using modern machinery and computer modelling to finalise and to cut out the important key parts, like moving parts, and possibly even the boiler. Any finishing touches or extra accessories probably still by hand. But good chance all the maths are double and triple checked on computers before building out the parts. For all the safety regulations regarding pressurised boilers nowadays.
Anybody else more educated can explain it better then me.
You are correct! Original drawings are referenced but the entire engine is modelled and designed in cad before anything is made or machined.
Precision modern engineering!
TY Lawrie! 🙏🙏
Beyond Way Cool!
Congratulations Lawrie on getting the first footplate ride on the P2 😂❤
It doesn't go very quick, does it!
Wasn't he actually the driver? lol
Breakneck speed of 0.0000000001MPH!
nah the earth orbits at 67,000 MPH so actually he's running the loco at verry high speed@@nikerailfanningttm9046
This is amazing!! And the fact it's going to run on the BR Mainline is awesome. I can't wait to see the P2 in all it's finished glory. Wishing these amazing people loads of luck from the USA to the UK :D
Lawrie you are one very lucky guy, I sincerely hope you get invited back during the build so you can give us update videos. Sorry but I have to use that word that you said you were using too much, the video and the project are truly "Amazing" 👌👍.
It would be interesting if they could construct the A4 streamlining kit to go with it as it might be interesting to see it in that form at a later stage ?
another company announced that they were going to contrust a working replica of 2001 in her A4 Bugatti streamlining however, since the announcement, there has been no updates apart from the fact they a have had the frames made.. this was sometime ago..
They would basically need to rebuild the smokebox end to convert it to the A4-style streamlining. It's extremely unlikely that 2009 will ever appear in that form
@@andrewreynolds4949 ah ok so not just a cosmetic refit then ? cheers for the feedback.
@@buffplums No, it includes a differently shaped smokebox. You can see there's a small angled section on the top of the one here; the A4 style smokebox looks like a cylinder cut in half diagonally, kind of a similar idea but much more extreme. All the boiler cladding would need to be replaced as well.
@@andrewreynolds4949 her number is 2007
Fun! I would definitely like to see the "more technical details" video; that sounds amazing. 😉
I once heard a quote for people who are into live steam as a hobby
"You don't have to be be crazy, but it helps!"
What is the basis for the "most powerful claim?" A P2 never exceeded the 3500 hp put out by 71000 or 6234. If it's based on tractive effort, that doesn't work either. Even a Robinson 0-8-4T had a higher tractive effort, let alone a LMS Beyer Garratt, or a U1.
I don't wish to diminish the tremendous work going into this loco, but let's put an end to this specious "most powerful claim."
Its a lovely place, i went to see it about 4 years ago and i found them really welcoming and a really interesting place
And here I thought the strongest was the 9F. I can't wait to see that locomotive blasting down the line. Speaking of newly built express locomotives, are you going to see the T1 in 2030?
I can’t wait until T1 5550 is finished! I’m a huge fan of the streamliner era of the 30s and 40s and the T1 being one of the last chapters of that era is certainly one of the most unique art deco pieces ever created. What is also interesting is that when finished it will be exactly 100 years since the streamliner craze happened with the railroads so it is sort of an interesting way to commemorate that 100 years later.
The strongest was the gwr king class. Not sure where they are getting this nonsense from. Br tested the king at it put out considerably higher tractive effort than the 9f
Ah yes "the scale of it" clearly hasn't seen an American engine with the same wheel arrangement
Americans haven't built a new a new steam Loco yet.
American 2-8-2's would be too big to fit European loading gauges and they weren't all that big by US standards anyway. If they wanted something bigger they put more wheels on it. By the time a USRA Light Mike was slimmed down to suit European loading gauge you got the SNCF 141R which is fairly comparable to the P2. The USRA Heavy Mike apparently had the same running gear as the Light Mike but it looks like what it was, a luimbering great freight locomotive.
Staggered by the ambition. Always loved the look of the P2 (Greasley fan boy here). This is a case of not doing something because it’s easy but because it’s hard, to me the Saturn 5 of British steam.
Gresley's Steam Locomotive designs were way outdated.
George Churchward was designing far better stuff 30 years earlier in 1900 for the Great Western.
If you knew anything about locomotive development, you'd know that Gresley's latest design (4-6-2 Flying Scotsman type) was tested against a 4-6-0 Great Western Castle Class loco in 1923.
The Great Western Castle wiped the floor with Gresley's latest 4-6-2 both in draw bar horse power & coal usage efficiency.
So much so that Gresley took his failed locomotive design back to Doncaster Works with his tail between his legs & modified the 4-6-2 Flying Scotsman Class to bring it into line with Great Western design practices.
The practices of George Churchward of 1900 & his successor CB Collett.
You may like to know that when the newly created British Railways needed some new motive power in the late 1940s & 1950s, they also copied Great Western & LMS (Stanier) designs also.
ooooohhhh wheels are shiny 😮😮😮 I like shiny
I'm making one of these in 5 inch guage. Thank you so much for this video!
That's nearly as ambitious! Good luck!
It's really a special thing, this. A big, fast, 'modern,' 8-coupled steam locomotive flying along UK mainlines, a classy-semi streamlined look, and, of course, The Next Number on the side of the cab. and just seeing everything...literally brand-new on it. no rust pitting, no nothing, almost...better than you could see one in the works of the LNER. Like it's a bespoke, handbuilt superloco. So cool.
...Now if we can only convince them to use Dave Mcloud's "Mikado" in the presentation video when it's done...
Fantastic! I live in Darlington and I did a video about this with the wheels turning! Great video Lawrie
I’m very excited to take a visit up to see the new HQ when it opens in the next month or so ☺️
Oh I'm definitelty willing to make a Donation of 10 or £20 for Prince of Wales because I've been desperate to see her completed since first laying my eyes on this Welsh P2
Love it one thing I never thought they would do is build steam engines in this day and age its fantastic seeing it come together it gives you a true sense of the quality and craftsmanship that goes into building one
In the day, they were often slapped together by skilled craftsmen, but without the modern techniques used in this build. Welding, CAD-CAM, fluid modeling, etc. P2 2007 will be far better.
There is (or possible was?) also another LNER P2 under construction by the Doncaster P2 Locomotive Trust, representing the class in their later form with the Bugatti front (similar to the A4s), which for me is the best looking version of these locos. Unfortunately I can't seem to find any recent information, last I heard they had cut the frames, but that was back in 2014
Congratulations🎉👏🥳 on your success🏆💪👌👍💪👏
My favorite American 🇺🇸 steam loco to build a new version is Milwaukee Rd HIAWATHA 4-4-2, I designed a 1/8 live steamer for scale trak at 7&1/16"g. CLASS A 1935 ALCO with Art Deco Streamlining by Otto Kuhler, designed for 100 M.P.H., racing from Milwaukee South to Chicago, in only 85 minutes!!!!! From 1935, but only until 1954 when diesels like the EMD. F7A, or Larger E8A arrived. And the FAIRBANKS-MORSE C-Liners. And ALCO DL109 called "Needle-nose". But I grew up North in Green Bay, with the Packers of the N.F.L. Sadly born way too late to see steam. But also sadly the passenger trains were dying really fast. Due to the U.S. GOV. Support of JET planes with the F.A.A., and highways called the Inter-State. The Rails also LOST the U.S. MAIL contract to the JET planes which were New and Modern and FAST!!!!! But trains were slow and old. But the U.S. GOV. Decided to cut down train speeds from previously 120 M.P.H., to only 79 mph. Thus the steamers with high speeds were quickly SCRAPPED AND DESTROYED.. BUT THEN,, many rail Museums,, or Excursions,, were started to preserve the Romantic Ideal of the American trains that settled the WILD WEST. BUT....MOST steamers used for excursions were smaller freight engines like the 2-8-0 Consolidation which were designed for Freight.. YET only a couple had the 4-6-0 ten-Wheeler with 63" Drivers for faster speeds for passengers. But most excursions were set up on very old tracks, with lighter rails, and lack of maintenance that only let them go at 10 mph. When the RR Managers changed from steam to diesel in the 1950s, little did they realize, that in barely 24 years. The U.S. would SUDDENLY PLUNGE over the abyss of the Energy Crisis of 1972, and this disaster is Still With Us even now, 50 years later in 2023. But with high prices. And short supplies. And THOUSANDS OF MILES OF TRACKS ripped off for nature trails for joggers and bicycles 🚲. This also cut off the many manufacturers from the rail option that was energy efficient. But using only semi trucks 🚚, because each truck needs a driver. Yet trains can couple all those cars together and use only 2 crewmen of the engineer, and Conductor or Brakeman. Thus, given all this, and even more, when we rebuild the Hiawatha 4-4-2 Class A, we can also rebuild the mainline with new heavy rails that can now support both the weight of the new steamer, and the High Speeds, because of the New welded rails !! YET...There is still a chance that the passenger trains of America 🇺🇸, can have a successful comeback. And save us from their old foolish ideas. Hi in May 2023A.D and 88th Anniversary of Original 1935 HIAWATHA 4-4-2 STREAMLINER!!!!! ON WISCONSIN!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA 🇺🇸 🙏 ❤!!!!!, GLORY ALLELUIA 🙏. AMEN ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏 ✝️ 🙏!!!!!
If I've had the money, I'd arrange for Milwaukee Road A 4-4-2 and F7 4-6-4 to be built, plus a NYC S-1b 4-8-4 Niagara, J-3 4-6-4 and finally a NYNH&H I-5 4-6-4....should be a crime that none were preserved! 😥
A pax rail comeback is unlikely, unless Agenda 2030 forces us off the roads. I was looking at going South Florida to Washington DC for Jan 6. Amtrak wanted only ~$250 round trip for 2 in a sleeper. Never made it.
After Lawrie waffling on about all the planning to think that back in the day they could totally refit a locomotive in 7 days. But it took the same time to paint one, so 2 weeks is still not bad.
WOW
This is the reason why I love the UK.. y’all have the ability and support to actually build a NEW locomotive… there is so much issue with American rail network and government, it’s almost impossible restore and operate one let alone build one from scratch. I know there is a group trying to build a new Pennsylvania T1 class, but that has been going on for ages with little progress.
Which you all the best of luck with these builds and restrictions!
T1 is about 10 years in. Most of the early work has been archive and engineering. The A1 took about 20 years from the beginning, I believe.
Steam has gained steam in the US lately. The PRR museum in Altoona announced the K4 from Horseshoe Curve will be restored.
The East Broad Top has be bought and the entire mainline will worked on in phases, the 1st of 5 Mikados is back in service and the roundhouse and shops are getting needed repairs. They're rebuilding the entire railroad. Multi-millions have been invested in only three years since the scrapper who didn't scrap it sold.
Other locomotive projects are ongoing. The main problem is most young people are glued to electronic devices. Young people need to volunteer, if they can. Steam needs young people to turn wrenches and learn the art.
Gracias por compartir este video. Interesante construcción de esta locomotora. Siempre me sentí atraído por los trenes ingleses. Muy muy bueno este video.
Amazing!
Mikados are a rarity in British locomotive, rarer still ones in preservation.
Thanks to them it is about to become slightly less rare
Majority of freight locos are normally 2-8-0's.
A Mikado wheelbase is for sure rare.
@@davidty2006 I think the P2's, and the two P1 mineral 2-8-2's also designed by Gresley, may have been the only British 2-8-2's ever built.
@@cr10001 The only other 2-8-2T design made in the UK was the Collett 7200 Class, of which 3 are under restoration.
@@Pyrotrainthing Good point, though the 7200 was a tank. I'd forgotten that one.
Do you know anything about the other NEW BUILD of the “THE UNKNOWN WARRIOR” LMS Patriot Class?
As I’ve said before it’s nice to have people around that can still be able to build equipment such as this especially if’s there’s a national emergency and the normal equipment is disable
If young people don't put down their devices at times and volunteer, steam will become harder every year.
@@psycotria I don't think phones themselves are the issue. Steam preservation is difficult to sell to many young people due to many other things flooding them and buying for their time and attention. With many kinds of interests and hobbies for people to have, selling them volunteering at a heritage railways ain't an easy feat. Take it from me, a Gen Z girl who would love to volunteer but can't due to a variety of reasons.
@@justwolfex Hi. The phone is just the Device du Jour. Back when I was young, we played with sticks and rocks, literally. The family's first computer was an Atari 400. It had 16k of RAM and a cassette tape drive. No internet! It took some of the time I could actually be doing something productive. (or unproductive.) They have evolved into the ubiquitous hand-held devices that do the "flooding."
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure on the rails and through time
I see that all 8 drive wheels have flanges. Don't the middle two axles usually have "blind" drivers, without flanges? This lets the locomotive negotiate sharper curves, which seems a handy thing...
The flanges on the middle two driving pairs will be set back a little more from the running edge of the rail than those of the leading and trailing driving pairs. On the 9F, which had five driving pairs, only the middle pair was flangeless and the 2nd and 4th pair were set back. the ruling curvature from which the necessary set-backs can be calculated is, I believe, 3 chains or 60 metres more-or-less.
Great to see you in my neck of the woods Lawrie. I'm a covenantor and look forward to the annual conference every year which this year will be in the new mainline connected shed. You should definitely come back up when she's finished and for the bicentenary of the S&DR in September 2025, that's going to be one heck of a weekend! I'll probably see you at a heritage railway somewhere, till then keep up the good work.
Once you make one you learn and want to improve the design also ways to make stuff go faster
God forbid, steam might save us if things go south.
suprised it has brass bushing side rods instead of Roller bearings like larger late steam from the USA.
i think i know why its not finished yet
they have James May on the team, hes probably too busy file rivets and screws
“JAAAMES” “STOP FILING” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
An amazing project indeed but I feel that you make a comment I, for one, would question...most powerful?, so what about 71000 or 46229 or 46201 which are all rated at 8P. Just asking
Always fascinated by these locos (but not the Thompson rebuilds). I'll look forward to seeing this on the line they were designed for.
Only slight disappointment is the name..... I would have much rather seen it graced with a Scottish name, continuing the sequence.
Awesome, I cant wait to see it!
13:21 Cartazzi rear truck. Car-ta-tsee 🤔
The sheer scale of both the engineering challenges and the insanity of the people undertaking it is to be celebrated.
I really hope this happens and I see it on the mainline as I’m rolling along in my Class 66.
Surely you know about the 2 being built in Sheffield. I believe they are destined for main line use.
The two?
@@lmm th-cam.com/video/OGe9B00mqWE/w-d-xo.html
I'm already planning my Lego P2 MOC. I should be able to install two motors, so as to give it accurate power.
Building new is so hard because building the physical loco is not even a fifth of the challenge. If you start from scratch, you're not building one loco, you're buidling a series. The first on the back of a napkin, the next in CAD and on paper, another in Excel and MS Project, and then the real one. And, most importantly, while you're building all of those, and the team and workshop to do it with, you have to build it in the minds and hearts of the people involved, and the public at large. That's the challenge.
Can’t bloody wait to see this monster running
Oh my those are some beautiful welds 18:19
I would like to introduce you to the T1 Trust in the US...
Would love to go and film with the T1. Drop me an email.
i reckon she'll steam about late 2024/ mid 2025
It's funny to think that in the time it's taken to build this locomotive the man who's title it's named for became King of England
I love this loco in every way except its name. It should be named after something or someone Scottish as that's where they were built for originally.
She's a fair bit bigger than 303 though 😂
You must be well chuffed.😄
Great video,hope you keep upto date with progress and do another video,thankyou so much.
I am overdue a return!
Another couple lost to the past is the NER D20s and the E2s
Odd question - why is the buffer beam finish painted and lined when there's so much else left to do, risking damaging its paintwork?
The entire front is painted, steam railway mag I think either paid for it or contributed so 2007 could go on the front cover a couple of years back iirc
Best footplate ride I've had was on the Derwent Valley Railway in Tasmania. Great experience but it wasn't on a P2. Congratulations. Love those shiny wheels, by the way.
6 million?
Wow you can get a bionic man for that 😀😀😀
I'm coming down to Darlington to see it steam for the first time next year.
Everybody gangsta till they build an a5
Was this a while ago?
Not more than a few months tops as 2007’s smokebox was taken off and moved horizontally so they could accommodate delivery of Tornado’s boiler (it’s mighty cramped in there lol but their new HQ is ready for them now) 🙂
It will be the most powerful locomotive in the UK in general, as a steam locomotive as considerably more pulling power than any diesel.
Cough, cough..... Best estimates for the P2 are between 2000 & 2500 HP, and there are plenty of diesel locomotive with more than that (class 47 = 2250 to 2750, class 60 = 3000, class 66 = 3200, class 68 = 3800).
As for tractive effort, the P2 is quoted as about 193kN which is long way behind the class 66 (409kN) and the class 60 (474kN).
@@18robsmithlook up "Hyce - why steam outpulls diesel"
Well it's for sure gonna have some competition with 59003.
What are they going to do with the inside valve gear because Gresley's conjugated didn't work well on the original. I must admit, I would rather have seen a Caprotti 2-8-2
Would be nice if they endeavoured to source the boiler from the UK- this time...-oh - disappointing
Not many people can make boilers like that from scratch anymore; I'm not sure there's any company in Britain that can (or at least one of that size)
When they tendered out Tornado’s boiler Meiningen was the best offer at that point, and for today it makes sense to go back to the works who built your original boiler to build you two additional boilers.
Plus everywhere over here who do have the engineering capability are already swamped with work and backlogs for other projects/locos
Finally, an express engine that will permanently be in LNER apple green livery. No BR liveries can ever be used on it because it’s out of era.
Although it might initially be turned out in photographic grey, or wartime black (for running in and testing).
Maybe they should do the P2 in post 1948 livery at some point, just to see what might have been?
@@vickielawless would be completely historically inaccurate but I’d give my left bollock to have it run for a ticket in BR Express blue 😂
not only is the amount of work involved in a new engine staggering , it is especially so these days,when I lived in Rochdale in the late 1980 early 90s , it was still very much a textile engineering town , and as we were into vintage fairground equipment we looked at the possibility of building a full size showmans traction engine, at the time we could of had eveything , and I really do mean everything manufactured in town , even down to the paint company that produced the original Burrell deep lake marroon paint. these days most of the skills to do this no longer exist and a lot of the facilities to make these components doesnt exist , so the trust getting these engines made in this country in itself is a massive achievement well done guys.
You're right it is very special and this is the sort of Engineering that Britain at time excelled at doing, made or built in Britain was something to be proud of
LAWRIE & THE NEED FOR A P2 TYPE !!
"Double heading" meaning 2 locos at the front of the train, was the NORM on the Edinburgh - Aberdeen route on the HEAVIEST expresses. But "Axle weight limitations" prevented the use of TWO of Gresley's 4-6-2 Pacific types to be used. The only solution therefore was to build a larger locomotive design, with greater power & tractive effort, to obviate "double heading".
Hence the arrival of the ONLY British 2-8-2 EXPRESS passenger engine design (the six locos in this class being classified P2 by the London & North Eastern Railway). So the "recreation" currently under construction is numbered 2007. Many aspects of this "recreation" are NOT the same as the original. As the organisation in control of this project have decided they will attempt to improve upon the original design with the aid of modern technology !!!!
The problem was paying for two crews.
We cover several of the changes of the P2/4 in the video
@@lmm YOU ARE NOT CORRECT ! I suggest you refer to O.S. Nocks "History of the LNER", which clearly states exactly what I have said, and stop making things up as you go along !!!
"Double Heading" was quite common with heavy expresses that often loaded to 15 or even more coaches, especially on the LMS & LNER. Try doing some research before going off half cocked !!!
Train crew wages ! They were literally skilled but cheap labour. The cost of the coal on two locos would have been more, so the labour cost simply does NOT enter into the situation. You obviously need to research railway accountancy methods pre-war.
By the way amongst my numerous railway qualifications are included BR Accountancy & BR Corporate Economics !!
@@railwaymechanicalengineer4587
The A1 trust quote as I said.
The P2 was not as powerful as two A3's
(32909lbs x2 vs 43,462lbs)
Absolutely not a replica! We have always made it clear that both No. 2007 and No. 60163 would be the next members of the class, thus allowing a degree of elbow room in adapting the locomotives to the modern network. In the case of the P2s, every example of the original class were different and we are continuing Gresley's process of development with No. 2007, sorting the inherent weaknesses of the Lentz valve gear, changing the leading wheelset with a pony truck, using a Diagram 118A boiler and, of course, fitting ETCS. A 21st Century locomotive for the 21st Century.
I hope to see that beast running when I visit England at some point. Got to get up and close to the Union Pacific Big Boy and that steam train even made the diesel helper shutter when it went forward with its power.
Also saw the special on Tornado on youtube when I was looking around and it is amazing to see how it was done.
Another thing is that I wonder why James May has not seen this yet? He would love it.
i be most impressed when they build the hush successfully.
Now there’s an idea 😂. After the V4?
Hush-hush would be quite an interesting project, particularly the boiler, the rest of the loco is "fairly standard"....
Given modern computer power and materials it should be possible to iron out the problems before cutting any metal, unlike back in the day pencils and slide rules can only do so much.
@@18robsmith true that's the reason I think it can be done with today's technology to fix the flaws
was going to say they got it done already, thought was still a few years off, didn't hear of massive progress but it looks like its definately getting closer. as you say in the video that actually doing it today, they often say we cant do it we dont know how, thing is its just a matter of money and willing to get it done there are places that can make parts though fewer then were decades ago, but there are giant foundries that can cast the parts and drop forges that can form out the giant forged parts, and the research in metal and pressure vessle design still continues, there are many projects in the uk, yet in the usa fewer even though its a giant land, we got restorations but only two or three new builds, the wisscasset watervill and farmington narrow gage, and the prr t1 they say it cant be done, but they already in 6 years boiler is compleat save one part and tubing, and now onto the frame
I hope that they have better luck with the German boiler than 3801 (the Australian express pacific), which arrived and was found to be eliptical and out of square. So, they got technical college students to refurbish the old one.
And our specs were wrong and we failed basic checks.. shameful.
You British are truly one of a kind - I salute you!
This would never happen in Germany.
Ironically, the boilers are built in Germany!
@@trisrush9155
In Meiningen, I assume?
The knowledge certainly is there, but there seems to be no public interest in heritage here.
@@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X yes in Meiningen or at least tornadoes boiler was made there
@@lucasquintanilla1673 They have ordered two more boilers from Meiningen of the same type, one for the P2 and one spare
@@andrewreynolds4949 that makes sense. Do you think other one is really just a spare or they are going to end up using it for the next locomotive that they’re going to build?
Regarding the boiler, I believe they are building 2 more, so that the P2 and the A1 share a spare, to reduce overhaul time.
Yeah the boiler ,Tornadoes boiler arrived and needed further work ,hmmmm good luck to them but a B 16 would be a better option than the V 4 imo'
There’s already two B17 new builds in progress which are similar. Plus a V3 is coming after the V4 🙂
A video on the cylinders and cam boxes please. I would love that.
I hope they will do the streamlined version as well
@N.Y.M.R nerd I mean the actual streamlined version not one with ears that are a bit more integrated than normal.
@@Alex-cw3rz I loved the P2's with the A4 streamlined casing. Very unique and elegant
@@ARG0T Isn't there a group in Doncaster building an A4 styled P2?
@@casperreininga3253 there is a second P2 but I've not seen any major progress recently. Can't see it being finished personally.
@@mattlander9119 yeah, the contruction of 2007 really over shadows the doncaster p2's construction
Yes a steam engine with the latest in ETCS.
The loco would like see run again is a standard gauge Garratt.
You can do so now! Come to Australia!
Garrett 6029 in Australia is a 4-8-4+4-8-4, with many videos on TH-cam, especially the parallel race with 3801 4-6-2 Pacific. And in India they have the Wide guage Garrat. And naturally in South Africa 🇿🇦 they have the narrow 42" guage 4-8-2+2-8-4, and other classes, ok!! Cool!! HI IN MAY 2023A.D. And in AMERICA 🇺🇸 in Cheyenne Wyoming, they have The UNION PACIFIC 4014 "BIG BOY" 4-8-8-4 ARTICULATED MALLET BUILT in 1941 for WW2, and pulling long heavy freights through the Wasatch Mountains to Denver, Colorado , and 8 BIG BOY Engines were saved at railroad museum, or displays in city parks all around America 🇺🇸 👍 😀!!!!! HI IN MAY 2023A.D.
Has anyone told you after the P2 and V4 they Intend to build a K3 and V3?
I didn't think they'd announced a K3.
The V3 will be great to see
@@lmm I can already see the K3 being a replica since 61993 was a K4
And another 2-8-2 Mikado should be the GREEN BAY AND WESTERN RR, CLASS D-47, ALCO 1938, with Unique 64" D. BOX-SPOK. drivers, but the other RR's had the 1918 and WW 1 Era U.S.R.A. HEAVY, OR LIGHT 2-8-2, with only 63"D spoke drivers...., and used for freight across Wisconsin, from the East and shore of Lake Michigan by Kewaunee and the ferry S. S. BADGER, and West to Winona, Minnesota, by the Mississippi River. BUT.... all 6 of these rare D-47's were Scrapped and Destroyed by 1955. Yet, in 1956, this inspired numerous local businessmen. And dyed in the wool steam engine fans, to start the NATIONAL RAILROAD MUSEUM, as the very First major tourist attraction for Green Bay; but besides the Packers of the N.F.L., as the NRRM Grew very quickly until 1980, when the Original Founders of the Board voted to get some help from the local Outsiders Management Group, but they Never had any railroad experience whatever. Not Railfans or Historians. And quite openly hostile towards the many local and numerous volunteers from the model railroad clubs around Eastern Wisconsin. But those Outside Managers decided to both sell, and also destroy and Scrapped 13 pieces ranging from the steam powered crane from the Appleton Paper Company, and also the 2 small Plymouth gasoline switchers that moved coal cars at the local power plant. Luckily I was able to get photos 📸 of this destruction. Yet though they were Fired in 1986, the Destruction continued so that by 2008 this NRRM has lost 37 cars , including 8 diesels. The NRRM tracks were packed and crowded. Sadly now in 2023, there are many, many empty spaces. And 37 pieces of American RAILROAD history have disappeared, FOREVER!!!!! FROM STEVEN, IN MAY, 2023A.D. DEAR GOD, PLEASE HELO US ALL!!!!! AMEN ✝️ .
what are you waffling about
If it costs c£6m to make because it's non-standard and pretty much hand built. How does that compare to a brand new electric full-size mainline locomotive?
The largest steam locomotives built in Britain, but which did not operate there, were the New South Wales Railways AD60 class 4-8-4+4-8-4 Garret locomotives built by Beyer-Peacock Manchester, which were nearly twice the size of P2. They did operate regular passenger trains and were fitted with steam heating pipes.
Beyer-Peacock built locos for most of the world. I watched a company video from their heyday. Multi-gauge tracks in their large shops.
I like the couple SAR NG/G-16 2-6-2+2-6-2 that now run on the WHR. 67 tons on 1' 11-3/4" gauge, with a tractive effort of almost 20,000 lbs. not to mention the original K-1 0-4-0+0-4-0 that worked on TGR from 1909 -1920s.
I just hope that someone get the same idea in Norway, and rebuild or build a copy OF "NSB Class 49" aka "Dovregubben" ("The Dovre Giant). (with adjustment to it's minor problems).
her and her sisters was build to work on the steep inclines of Dovre railroad, With a lower top speed, for in return getting even more tractive effort. They was a beast in pulling power that would gladly compete with 9F, when it comes to brute pulling power. The Class 49 could deliver up to 2600 bhp over it's 4 cylinders.
Would have been fun to see an Class 49, pull a large train up a steep railroad track
Good looking loco Hate the name hope its more reliable than the ship that carries the same name
Nice Video that is amazing project !
Was the 9F not more powerful than the P2, in which surely the NYMR 9F is the most powerful steam locomotive in the UK?