Testing the Holy Hockey Stick - Tovi stick review

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 416

  • @CoachJeremy
    @CoachJeremy  4 ปีที่แล้ว +155

    Well, looks like were giving one of these away ----> If this video gets 1000 likes Haden and I will give away one of these sticks on Instagram. Follow our stories at @howtohockey and @howtoHaden Thanks to Tovi Hockey for hooking us up with these twigs. For more info, check out their website tovihockey.com/

    • @FishingCoTv
      @FishingCoTv 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      it’s weird how when you used your own stick you looked way more relaxed in your skating style

    • @williamt5884
      @williamt5884 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      What if you dont have social media but want to enter the give away?

    • @kiwidawn702
      @kiwidawn702 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Coach Jeremy is there goalie sticks for it? My brother goalie and I’m center I think it would be nice get him that for Christmas to test

    • @ApostleNyx
      @ApostleNyx 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Post another video of mason plz

    • @GetBackToGolf
      @GetBackToGolf 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      cool stuff mate... been wanting to try one of these for a while but i guess my following is too small for them to answer back to me

  • @Jack-bk6ro
    @Jack-bk6ro 4 ปีที่แล้ว +766

    imagine goong to play your sunday league hockey and u end up against these 2 tryhards 😂😂

    • @drquick9737
      @drquick9737 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      That's a fact.. lol

    • @shthwk7351
      @shthwk7351 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I would like the comment but I’m not gonna mess up the 69

    • @cliffordgill9052
      @cliffordgill9052 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      The rest are notrys.....

    • @bullshark3771
      @bullshark3771 4 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Jack those goalies were low key ass

    • @zacharylortie2786
      @zacharylortie2786 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      BullShark more like highest key ass

  • @yeltsin6817
    @yeltsin6817 4 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    I think Hayden has some mad skills Love how he goes right to the d guy so he doesn’t know where to angle him off. That’s sick

  • @max10836
    @max10836 4 ปีที่แล้ว +185

    Can u do Christmas gifts for 2019

  • @The-Dom
    @The-Dom 4 ปีที่แล้ว +207

    I hope you guys bought lunch for all those pylons who played with you.

    • @alexspina169
      @alexspina169 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Amadis Demitrius the bruins jersey sucked

    • @mrbig4532
      @mrbig4532 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      True that I know u r not supposed to get real physical in these beer league games or scrimmages but I’m competitive and I wouldn’t put a guy into boards from behind or hit a guy with his head down and man those guys had their heads way down which would cost u a concussion in the league I used to play in but yeah all those passes clear across the ice right in front of two defenders who didn’t even keep their sticks on the ice or they would of intercepted most of those cross ice one timers that they scored on several times. It’s nice to go and skate around do some moves u say in a NHL game but I’m not into that for long I want competition and to go up against the best players there , all those self passes off the boards around a “defenseman” right in for a break away is not fun hockey for me . It’s my dads fault because he always put me in the age group above the one I should of been in which sucked in the beginning because I was always the smallest player and the other teams wouldn’t care if I’m 13 playing with in the 16-18 year old league I was just another guy they had to stop or get around so I wasn’t the best player until I grew up a little and when I was 16 which should of been my first year all the players that were coming up from the 12-16 year old league were no competition.

    • @innercityprepper
      @innercityprepper 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      guys it's open hockey. chill.

    • @mrbig4532
      @mrbig4532 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Potato HEAD I know but I threw at my own dad when he was crowding the plate in the father -son game ! If you think that’s a little over the top then you would of been shocked when he rushed the mound , both benches cleared, police had to get involved, and his lawsuit is still pending against me. It’s just a joke there’s no lawsuit the judge threw out , no that’s not true none of this really happened......

  • @museinglis1979
    @museinglis1979 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    I just recently ordered the Sabotage, hopefully will get in in a few weeks...
    Told the kids that I asked Santa for it, so I won’t be able to use it until after Xmas!

  • @HadenHiles
    @HadenHiles 4 ปีที่แล้ว +185

    You have some chili for lunch there bud? 0:16

    • @CoachJeremy
      @CoachJeremy  4 ปีที่แล้ว +41

      Ya.... Maybe next time let me know BEFORE we shoot the video 🤣

    • @DegenGamblerAF
      @DegenGamblerAF 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Coach Jeremy please check my dm on Instagram. Parker_jc05
      Would mean a lot

    • @owenmccaughey5291
      @owenmccaughey5291 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Coach Jeremy I mean it just shows that your a human that eats rather than a robot that doesn’t

    • @sag_plays5240
      @sag_plays5240 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Haha

    • @TTTonyboy
      @TTTonyboy 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I came to the comments just to find a chili or spag comment

  • @johnprovost7248
    @johnprovost7248 4 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Everyone: sabotage barrage
    Me:Garage

  • @sqb_
    @sqb_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    5:11 this part was pretty sick thoo

  • @mrslysully3982
    @mrslysully3982 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Better for road hockey I find, Great vid Coach I love your videos

  • @mfboom8265
    @mfboom8265 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    live in England n have never played hockey and probs never will but still watch ur vids cah they're hard, ml boss

  • @jeremiebosse8859
    @jeremiebosse8859 4 ปีที่แล้ว +52

    4:33 that was a snipe

  • @nathandemers1957
    @nathandemers1957 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Used it when they were the Carbon Sports guys when they first started in Massachusetts. Only got to try it because one of the owners was at pick up with a bunch to try out. Loved using it actually and would really like to get my hands on one. Snap shots were pretty good, but I noticed it more with the wrist shots and slap shots where the follow through played more of a roll. Especially on the wind up for a slap shot I could notice the weight reduction and also the cut down of air resistance. Might look a little gimmicky at first, but it's a solid twig.

  • @seanroyer5914
    @seanroyer5914 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice to see its an honest review on a sponsered vid

  • @daviddaprato3741
    @daviddaprato3741 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have the Sabotage after using STX Surgeon 2.1 and an All Black Sticks stick. I Love the Tovi. I did have quite a bit more control of the puck, noticeable with passing and receiving for me. Do a follow up Jeremy! That is ultimate test. A one timer is nothing compared to consistency.

  • @MedTHCOntario
    @MedTHCOntario 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dude! We haven't seen one of your vids in prob 2 years.... Your videos have come such a long way!

  • @jackbuildz659
    @jackbuildz659 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Hey Jeremy!! Nice video! I have a recommendation for a video... hockey Christmas gifts 2019!!

  • @shadowbbb4010
    @shadowbbb4010 4 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    Use the drilled stick on the ice!

    • @codylanham6699
      @codylanham6699 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Jason Huang yes I wanna see that one

    • @TheWitchOvAgnesi
      @TheWitchOvAgnesi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I was hoping he would too. Probably would shatter on the first slapper.

  • @JoshFg4
    @JoshFg4 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Had the mirage for around 8 months, absolutely love it

  • @Infantz0
    @Infantz0 4 ปีที่แล้ว +75

    Lefty gang where you at?
    ⬇️
    ⬇️

    • @Anabolic_Airsofter
      @Anabolic_Airsofter 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I'm a switch but I prefer left

    • @Infantz0
      @Infantz0 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Anabolic_Airsofter if you are willing on switch i recommend practicing with mini sticks to get the hang of it

    • @Anabolic_Airsofter
      @Anabolic_Airsofter 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Infantz0 aight, thanks!

    • @xxdarebearxx2794
      @xxdarebearxx2794 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I feel like there is way more lefties these days than righties

    • @Anabolic_Airsofter
      @Anabolic_Airsofter 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@xxdarebearxx2794 Yeah I noticed that too, even in Baseball I see more people who bat left now but Switch hitters and switch stickers are still pretty rare.

  • @BoredAtWork2000
    @BoredAtWork2000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Do they come with white blades for those of us who like white tape?

  • @ardiaz22
    @ardiaz22 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Playing in a tournament in Marlboro MA I ran into the owner when they were Carbon Sports so I ordered one with a discount code he gave me. Loved the stick but stopped using it because it was noticeably heavier than other elite sticks. Went back to a Bauer 1N at the time.... Now the Warrior DX

  • @justinwilliams1573
    @justinwilliams1573 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Try the Bauer vapor flylite or the Bauer vapor ADV

  • @Kamrin_
    @Kamrin_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That puck handling is a beauty

  • @maxd9352
    @maxd9352 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you make a video the difference between the sabotage and the other one please

  • @Michael-mq4yu
    @Michael-mq4yu 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    i need some of those skates at 0:00

  • @14nthony1
    @14nthony1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just notice that this is at the rotary place in Orillia that’s where I play hockey lol

  • @19Caveman89
    @19Caveman89 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    😬 can't decide on pulling the trigger for the low kick or mid kick and either the 75 flex or 85 flex. I read this stick felt more whippy than its rated for and i want the option of a quality clapper from the blue when I play back in my Beer League...any suggested advice Hayden and Jeremy?

  • @jovensangha5721
    @jovensangha5721 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Could you use this for ball hockey

  • @24συ-ν9θ
    @24συ-ν9θ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have felt great used it in my tournament just felt great over all very good stick

  • @nathansimpson4510
    @nathansimpson4510 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You should do best hockey presents 2019

  • @187Rossi
    @187Rossi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you think it would be good for outdoor street hockey?

  • @danb1500
    @danb1500 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do more videos were you just play hockey I like this

  • @brianhervi6092
    @brianhervi6092 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have owned one for almost a year now. I have gotten used to it and I love it.

    • @calebcritchley738
      @calebcritchley738 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Brian Hervi How durable is the blade? I’ve been thinking about getting one, but I need to know if it will last.

    • @brianhervi6092
      @brianhervi6092 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Caleb Critchley I use mine twice a week and good so far. I will buy another one.

  • @jonathansteenstrup422
    @jonathansteenstrup422 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Is it good for making those hard shots from blue?

  • @dirtbikesicehockey4788
    @dirtbikesicehockey4788 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I was more amazed on how glass like the ice was. Looked super smooth and fast

    • @TheWitchOvAgnesi
      @TheWitchOvAgnesi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Some, but not all, places know how to maintain it.

    • @lachlanpurvis9450
      @lachlanpurvis9450 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TheWitchOvAgnesi We all know how its just whether or not the place is willing to put the money down for it

    • @TheWitchOvAgnesi
      @TheWitchOvAgnesi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lachlanpurvis9450 It's a matter of training the guy running the resurfacer properly. Unless the Zam is malfunctioning or the rink's cooling system is on the blink, there's no excuse to have perfect ice (assuming the attendant knows what they're doing).

  • @leofrancoeur5269
    @leofrancoeur5269 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    would you recomend the tovy stick for a defense player?

  • @PikeyBoo
    @PikeyBoo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Damn did you just happen to forget to mention the price, they're just shy of $300 bucks a stick! No thanks!!!!!!

    • @antoinedespaties7458
      @antoinedespaties7458 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      PikeyBoo all thé fucking stick are 300$ so stfu the adv séries are 400-5000$ ans a flylite are 350 so ils Life man

    • @Toolmybass
      @Toolmybass 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It costs Easton Manufacturing (Mexico) 8 usd to make a stick that sells for $300+

  • @ChuckBeefOG
    @ChuckBeefOG 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The last stick i liked was a wooden easton Zcarbon in the mid 2000’s. I hate the feel of a composite blade so i still use a couple of dinosaur easton snythesis shaft sticks with wood blades. I stockpiled after this one-piece nonsense.

  • @TTony300ZX
    @TTony300ZX 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was really wondering about the name in the title because I was saying to myself this looks like my carbon sport hockey stick. I'm on my 2nd carbon sport stick the 1st one was replaced under warranty. Can't say much negative except I feel like they should offer the shaft in a longer length. I am a tall guy 6'1" off the ice and I have to use an extension on mine. I have been having issues as of late with the glue holding the extension into the shaft over time but it might just be the glue I am using. As to the over all feel and quality of the stick I am quite impressed. I definitely concur with what Jeremy is saying as I too can feel the puck better when passing and shooting.

    • @HadenHiles
      @HadenHiles 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      🤔👌🏼

  • @50StichesSteel
    @50StichesSteel 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonder if they could make the whole stick grated like that. That might rip your gloves up quicker though

    • @CKr14
      @CKr14 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd break instantly

  • @AbutiTk
    @AbutiTk 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man don’t wanna lie😭😭🔥🔥🔥Hockey be the funnest sport ever🙏🏽😤😤😭💓

  • @cheapskategamer8562
    @cheapskategamer8562 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video...My only BIG complaint is you should've used a RADAR to check shot power vs regular stick. Does having the holes make your clappers faster and harder???? I mean that's pretty big if it does add a higher shot power if your spending the BIG 300$ price tag!!!

  • @jackmakackov7077
    @jackmakackov7077 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Braden Schenn tried this in a game last year. He swapped the stick out before one shift was over

  • @antoinechavanne8239
    @antoinechavanne8239 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Haden : I love your Jersey ! 4:10
    Which team ?

    • @HadenHiles
      @HadenHiles 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Toe Dragons... courtesy of Beer League Jerseys!

  • @nicorickey4300
    @nicorickey4300 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I wanna hear them both say, " what are you silly, still gunna send it"

  • @finsfish
    @finsfish 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fun vid watching you guys fly around out there!

  • @hokkikokki
    @hokkikokki 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How about testing new Marsblade skate blade holders?

  • @Retro_Jet_Elite
    @Retro_Jet_Elite 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    “How am I supposed to rip clap bombs with this big sail draggin behind me” 😆

  • @19stalkern
    @19stalkern 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love my TOVI!!

    • @djr5353
      @djr5353 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      have you used it for a while now? I want to know how it still feels

  • @sebas9544
    @sebas9544 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Been here since 200k subs

  • @sheatyrrell7871
    @sheatyrrell7871 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Haden was on x games mode😆

  • @kimberlydesloges4308
    @kimberlydesloges4308 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love you coach Jeremy!

  • @superkidz916
    @superkidz916 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Haden body check Jermey just to score 😂😂

  • @skullium5920
    @skullium5920 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I use this stick for both on street and on ice, and it’s very good stick

  • @clintonthomas3150
    @clintonthomas3150 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your the best coach jeremy

  • @sinodanotsnhoj625
    @sinodanotsnhoj625 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video, but you GOTTA do something about that high pitched ring in the beginning

  • @keej9296
    @keej9296 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Yo that’s at orilla arena with the rock wall lmao

  • @trav4oilers
    @trav4oilers 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That Jeremy or the pizza man tossing those saucers in the video?

  • @Cheese-mr3xc
    @Cheese-mr3xc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    hey can you buy the mirage jr or tell me how big it is because im ten and have been playing hockey for 5 yrs and i fell like buying one

  • @lyyn8545
    @lyyn8545 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You guys absolutely murdered that goalie

  • @gravyspin2938
    @gravyspin2938 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Haden is actually Nasty!

  • @cynthialian5913
    @cynthialian5913 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Imagine if all the players had cameras on their heads and switching bewtween players like on a kill cam!!!!

  • @kalebboudreau6425
    @kalebboudreau6425 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You and sweet spot squad are the best Chanel

  • @TheLaterSkater
    @TheLaterSkater 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Schiffer would be proud of those transitions

  • @lynx9645
    @lynx9645 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You should have done a goal count in the bottom of the screen for both of you guys

  • @cambart8006
    @cambart8006 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love the intro to the video great vid

  • @lightniinggg8693
    @lightniinggg8693 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you please make a video on how to elevate the puck off the ice

  • @chriswilliams4375
    @chriswilliams4375 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Does anyone know if a 2n or 1s 2.0 blade would fit in a 1x lite

  • @carlchristianadenic2688
    @carlchristianadenic2688 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Why is this on my recommendation we don't even have snow here in the philippines 😑🤣

    • @TheWitchOvAgnesi
      @TheWitchOvAgnesi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Or hockey rinks... or DO you? LOL

    • @usmcdevildog5569
      @usmcdevildog5569 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Check it out brother. Hockey is awesome

  • @mileystevenson4760
    @mileystevenson4760 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    you should check out Allan Andrews, pei they are a really good programe for spring hockey they do one ice training and off ice trainning. They travel a lot and practice a lot.

  • @TheWitchOvAgnesi
    @TheWitchOvAgnesi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have that Easton puck bag! Yellow too! Best bag to get!
    [edit: of course Easton is now out of business, sooo... maybe the CCM bag]

  • @colefrink4795
    @colefrink4795 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    It’s about time I have been waiting to see how good they are

    • @jasongrenier1499
      @jasongrenier1499 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've played hockey with Haden a few times in our industrial tourney! The guys a beast!!!

  • @evantichelaar571
    @evantichelaar571 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a hockey tournament in Huntsville this weekend

    • @frankmc5021
      @frankmc5021 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      How's the tournament going?

  • @CommentaryGroot
    @CommentaryGroot 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Jeremy if you like having goalies in pickup hockey you should come to Waterloo. Lol

    • @randomguy9598
      @randomguy9598 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Waterloo Ontario? Cuz if thats what u mean thats my hometown and hockey is super popular there

    • @CommentaryGroot
      @CommentaryGroot 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Random Guy yep

  • @auroravasquez9921
    @auroravasquez9921 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Test how far you can shoot the puck in the frozen canal instead of the football field

  • @iamthebot5843
    @iamthebot5843 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your videos they are the Best

  • @marksalah1978
    @marksalah1978 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You should make Hockey presents 2019

  • @caseyhuyser1907
    @caseyhuyser1907 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey, was looking at the tovi website and didn't realize how many different options there were for flexes and curves and such. Usually I just go into a store and buy a stick that feels good. Can you do a video on how to properly order a stick online and what all the differences are?

  • @halfclappertopchedda
    @halfclappertopchedda 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Jeremy! Great vid. Can you do a stick review on the STX surgeon rx3!? Been looking for a good review and can't find one. Thanks buddy.

  • @jorbjorb1
    @jorbjorb1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Where do you find these benders? Lol

  • @Teddybaer06
    @Teddybaer06 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'd like to use it for hockey.

  • @parkerreese1315
    @parkerreese1315 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hockey players probably will never use these things because we won’t switch from our normal thing we are just to stubborn. Even if they do work a hell of a lot better

  • @chasekirby3787
    @chasekirby3787 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I always thought the Reebok 10K stick was cool since It had holes near the bottom of the shaft

    • @HadenHiles
      @HadenHiles 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I remember those! Always wanted that twig...

  • @thomasc9123
    @thomasc9123 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Haden has some hands

  • @pyrus1614
    @pyrus1614 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why does this look so smooth

  • @OwenDlugosz
    @OwenDlugosz 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Do you like brady Tkachak

  • @karenolivier2306
    @karenolivier2306 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Couldn't stop laughing at 2:20

  • @stepbrobill1829
    @stepbrobill1829 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love you guys

  • @TheEmperorsWatch1
    @TheEmperorsWatch1 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    They back checked really hard on you guys 🙃🙃🙃👍🎄

  • @frankiegaliffa3850
    @frankiegaliffa3850 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Haven't tried it but wouldn't mind to

  • @leslievanderhoef8162
    @leslievanderhoef8162 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Props to the guy with no number sick goal and great pass

  • @GhostGaming-tp4jl
    @GhostGaming-tp4jl 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yeah I’ve use the Toby steak but it was ground

  • @jameystreichert2148
    @jameystreichert2148 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What stick should I get Bauer 2s pro 2n pro or the vapor

  • @FishnTheSouthOkanagan78
    @FishnTheSouthOkanagan78 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Have you guys taken hard slap shots with the Tovi blade? All I saw were snapshots in the review.

    • @HadenHiles
      @HadenHiles 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      We took a bunch of clappers afterwards, it felt noticeably more powerful. Just had to focus on keeping the puck below the bar haha

  • @turkey6310
    @turkey6310 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is that at the rotary place in orillia

  • @FallenshadowHh
    @FallenshadowHh 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It’s that rotary place orillia ?!

  • @caelanmcsweeney1960
    @caelanmcsweeney1960 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You should do getting your own custom stick

  • @turtlez2198
    @turtlez2198 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Is this rotary?

  • @ryanh1892
    @ryanh1892 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Any update on durability over long term?