History of the Class 487 ~ London's Strangest Underground Trains (Obscure Offerings Ep. 11)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- The Class 487s were unusual little EMUs that ran on the Waterloo & City Line from 1940 to 1993; that's a service life of 53 years. This line was run as a branch of the mainline rail network from its opening in 1898 right up until April 1994, when it finally became part of the London Underground.
In this video I'll be explaining the history of these unique units, as well as briefly discussing the trains that replaced them in 1993. These were sets of 1992 tube stock (initially designated as Class 482 by British Rail).
(Image Credits):
6089Gardener (Flickr)
74009 (Flickr)
Adrian Nicholls (Flickr)
Aec Southall (Flickr)
Brian Creasey (Flickr)
Bob Hoskins (Flickr)
Daniel Wright (Flickr)
Chairman Pip (Flickr)
Chuck Zeiler
Citytransportinfo
Clive Barker (Flickr)
Gary Benjamin (Flickr)
GFW Rail Photos (Flickr)
J.J. Smith
John Atkinson
John Carter (Flickr)
John C. Earwicker (Flickr)
John H. Meredith (Flickr)
John Upton (Flickr)
Jonathan Francis (Flickr)
Jonathan Hazan (Flickr)
Jonathan Martin (Flickr)
Kris Davies (Flickr)
Mark Bowerbank (Flickr)
Martin Coles (Flickr)
Martyn Hilbert (Flickr)
Matt Taylor (Flickr)
Michael J. Collins (Flickr)
MKT Transport Photography (Flickr)
NL Transport (Flickr)
Ron Fisher (Flickr)
Sparegang (Flickr)
Southern Reg (Flickr)
SV1XV (Flickr)
Tim Abbott (Flickr)
Thameside 287 (Flickr)
Treflyn Lloyd-Roberts (Flickr)
Western SMT (Flickr)
Wimvantklooster (Wikimedia Commons)
(Information sources):
Bloodandcustard.com
Brian Hardy collection
London Transport Museum
Southern Railway E-mail Group
The Railway Centre.com
Wikipedia
Thanks 'The Trainspotter From Taurange' a great video with loads of interesting information and photos. You are the Southern Railway to my Waterloo and City line.....
Great video, with a great deal of accurate research - well done. I rode on the 487s for many years.
I've heard the Waterloo and City line referred to colloquially as "The Drain", but I don't know how widespread that is.
Amongst those of us that used it quite common. At least is was back in the 1980s before it became part of the Underground.
Yes, that's what we knew it as during the 1970s.
That is a very widespread name for the line here in the UK
Yes, I've always known it as The Drain. When I rode on it many, many years ago it smelt like one too.😊
Very widespread in London. Also the strange sounding measurements on Length, width and height were probably because the 487s were built to Imperial measurements, not the metric ones quoted.
For a brief period when I was 18, I lived in Ilford and went to college in Reigate, and this was a daily part of my experience of going to college. I _DO_ not miss them! >.
I only know of Ilford because of its station on the Great Eastern Mainline (and the nearby depot, of course).
I went to college in Redhill not so far from Reigate, I remember playing football against Ray Mears school but we were the naughty boys school in Redhill so no one paid us much attention like arriving in handcuffs in a prison transit hehe I did the insane commute to Redhill college from Bromley which involved a series of buses to E Croydon, train then long bloody walk to college or unearthly bus from Bromley North on the 410 and another long bloody walk from the station...
What a brilliant video. So informative and packed full of information. I have subscribed and will enjoying viewing your other material.
Very informative and entertaining video! Thank you
It was during the 2006 Major upgrades that the third rail was replaced with the LUL 4 rail system with one outer rail and one centre rail as well as the running rails.
Actually, the LU 4 rail system was put in in 1993, but the 1940 steel third rails remained until 2006 when replaced with LU style aluminum ones (at the same time, they replaced the BR era legacy signaling lights)
Isn't it still the only line that runs on 600V? Or maybe I am thinking of something else
Fantastic video!
Very detailed and enjoyable history. I'm glad to say that I have actually travelled on the W&C when the trains were in their green livery. They felt very strange inside (almost claustrophobic) compared with the London Underground trains of the time. If I remember correctly, there was an incident with a steam loco partially falling into the Armstrong lift. Kia ora👍
Quite right -- in the mid '60s an ex-LSWR M7 was the unlucky victim of late or insufficient braking.....you know the rest.
I don't think that I ever got that under the belt in BR's times,well it would have become NSE by then as Maggie's backdoor privatization:sectorization had begun.I have done it quite a lot under LU's control.I get the impression it's mainly used by commuters but it can be used to connect between other LU lines.
Was useful late nights back from Aunt in Clapton - Train to Liverpool Street then Central Line or Walk to Bank then the W&C and fast from Waterloo to SW London
Congrats, you are favored by the algorithm
Yes, definitely the Drain. But before you get to it there’s always a bug queue down the ramp at Waterloo to get to the platform. Nothing special, not a bad line, just an unremarkable one.
Ohhh, it was the heat of the moment! 1982!
Fantastic explanation and content but unfortunatly backgroud music is over the volume to keep concentrated, thus not great in my opinion. Sadly just ruined the video that aspect. Thank you for sharing anyway.
14:10 Speaking of OpenBVE, there does exist a download link for a Class 487 train online, complete with exterior and interior.
Sometimes I think my life is all the poorer for not being a trainspotter (without watching the video)
LOL you need to get out of Tauranga and get to London...
The Waterloo and city line only became part of the Underground in 1994. It isn't really a proper metro line, it was just transferred to the underground for administrative convenience when British rail was being privatised, as it would be too unattractive for potential bidders for the Southern railway francise (its historic, pre-British railways owner) to continue including.
It'a really just a shuttle or people mover, to get people who work in the city to/from Waterloo station as quickly as possible (as many of these people live in London's affluent South-West, which Waterloo is the terminus for). It only has 4 cars
Over the decades talk of connecting it to the Northern City line (and lengthening the platforms) was continually brought up. But I think that Crossrail has made then now impossible.
There's very little space around Bank and Moorgate to connect the Northern City and Waterloo & City lines, alongside with 4 cars being a capacity issue to passengers. I believe there's a plan to rebuild the W&C platforms at Bank and extend them at Waterloo, but I haven't heard progress from it right now.
Did he not say most of that in the video? I am pretty sure I heard it
@@MannyAntipov actually you should have another look at the axiomatic maps of bank station. There is just enough space to squeeze the tunnels in for an extension. It'll be like Tottenham Court Road - about six inches between the tunnels!
Pretty awful that the SR, then BR(S) and the whole BR, kept churning out 4SUBs, then EPBs, 504s, etc - often replacing older but more modern LMS and LNER EMUs - when SR had shown they knew how to make saloon-with-sliding-door stock.
Obviously you fail to understand why the Southern avoided sliding doors like the Plauge !
The Southern had the busiest lines in Britain, busiest during morning & evening peaks. Suburban trains were only allowed 30 seconds for station stops, at most stations. In this 30 seconds up to 500 people had to detrain & entrain. No sliding door train (in Britain) can cope with such demands. Meaning fewer sliding door type trains could be operated per hour.
So when the BR Board inflicted the cheap and nasty class 455 sliding door units on the Southern, the timetable went to pot, and had to be reduced during rush hours. Indeed despite the fact that the 455's were nominally the same horsepower as their predecessors, and indeed many actually used their predecessors traction motors rewound. The 455's could NOT keep up with either the 4SUB or 4EPB types, needing roughly an extra 30 seconds between stations. With two exceptions.
There were two 455 units with Thyristor control, one with GEC equipment, & the other ABB equipment. They worked happily when paired, being noticeably quicker in acceleration. When mixed with normal 455 units the Thyristor unit would tend to drag the other, causing increased maintenance problems. The 456 2-car units were even more stupid, having no through gangways between units, and just as slow.
Indeed all subsequent EMU's on the Southern to date, suffer from idiotic design flaws. Because all Southern suburban units need "maximum passenger capacity"; "maximum circulation", and "maximum ingress and outgress" All three critical design requirements have been totally overlooked & not understood in the Post BR era. Because Private industry can't get its imbecilic computerised & digitised robotic brains, around such good old fashioned practical requirements that people like Maunsell & Bulleid understood, without ANY Rocket science being needed !!!!
As an ex BR era engineer having worked on both the SR & WR, I have a comprehensive understanding of the peculiar needs of the SR.
@@railwaymechanicalengineer4587 Can't they have longditudal seating and extra doors that only operate during the rush hour (with slide down seats to cover them the rest of the time)? Looks like the Keihan Line worked that one out decades ago
Music is far too loud in the background, but everything else is spot on
What awful background music.
1:52 plonker you know 🤣
Can you re-release this video without the obnoxiously loud music? Please?
One point that many are unaware of is that the 487s were truly unpainted. The side panels were covered in green rexine (a vinyl-like material) when new. The rexine was then painted over at subsequent overhauls. They were also the only "underground" cars ever designed by Bulied and were built at the Dick,Kerr works of English Electric in Preston alongside double-decked trams for Blackpool which ironically have had even longer lives.
Grat video, music is a little too busy and loud and can be a little distracting. Good content though
Can't remember when it was but I have a clear memory of getting on one of these and being blown away by the amazing interior design with lovely old wood trim, dark red seats, interesting lighting etc. I think this must have been in the 2000s
Probably Piccadilly line as I think this was the last line to use this interior. It was like something coming out of the past when one of those rolled up.
I also have memories of wooden escalators so I must be remembering prior to the King's Cross fire
Very distracting music
I would be curious to see how much those units had in common with the DM class units that ran on the Wellington suburban network, considered that both types were among the small handful of EMUs built by English Electric during that era
Because the 487 was 3rd rail; they would occasionally go on jollies to the BR Southern Region Works for heavy overhaul under their own power 🙃
- ah you mention this at 05:24
Great episode. I love how some of the photos used look somewhat cursed out of context, such as any LU stock on the main line.
That's nothing unusual to the folks on the Isle of Wight, where they've currently got ex-District Line trains running the show.
Is there a version of this WITHOUT the horrible music bed?
The Class 487 that was used on the Waterloo & City Line in Network Southeast livery were so reliable. Before they were replaced by the 1992 Stock which were also built for the Central Line.
3:00 ''Backrooms Transport Service''
Omg it fits
I loved the 'drain' and its green rolling stock. I don't know why, but they exuded a quality feel that the LT rolling stock never had IMHO. My grandfather worked on the line for a while as a SR and later BR Southern Region man and even lost one of his crew to the very fatal 600V DC power.
Wow…. That’s some hideous rolling stock
Yes, they tend to run the trains here until they fall apart. Refurbishments are usually half-hearted, especially on the franchises, one of the worst ideas ever. - With regards to the Victoria Line: I’m wondering if it has ever been cleaned since 2009.
🤣🤣 I loved the southern joke it brightened my day.
Technically it wasn't an Underground line until recently, just a line underground.
13:47
And originally the 1967 stock, but retired in 2011
Excellent. I used to travel on the 487’s during school holidays in the Seventies. It was part of the train ‘thing’ that I had in those teenage years. They were strange compared to the usual deep level and cut and cover type stock in use on the Underground. The ‘step’ inside was perhaps the strangest feature.
The last sentence sounds like something people would say about the Pacer units.
We've all had "that train thing" 🤣
I remember the lift and the line so well, 84-85 I was located at the Lamp Arch under Waterloo and my job was to replenish the lamps on the Exeter and the 4SUB's but was a couple times lamps were needed on the W&C when bulbs had gone on the taillights. On lifting day us Lamp Arch denizens had to help out as well dragging chains and shouting "All OK" up and down the shaft lol As for the Southern liveried 4SUB... I did sordid things in the compartments coach of that old beastie... between Lewisham and Gravesend me and me bird certainly rocked the casbah there and back O.o Was always a shame to see the old train lingering at Slades Green til it was scrapped against public outcry.
That's not a bad story (improved with that subtle reference to The Clash).
By the year 1940, the correct terminology should read Southern Railway, not Region. That didn’t arrive until 01/01/1948.
I worked a lot on the tracks down on the W&C line a few years back, so this was quite enjoyable video to me personally.
The original tunnel running to the Armstrong Hoist is still the, be it sealed approx 10m in. This is still known as the Spur Road as it was first known when it was bored out.
Was and always will be the drain...units regularly went to Selhurst And Wimbledon for general overhauls etc
The Waterloo & City line, known as The Drain, class 487s in Network Southeast livery, taken a ride on this line in the past
Great video, well researched and really interesting
Another unusual feature. Passengers board on one side with marks on the platform to indicate door positions and leave the train the opposite side. Possible as no intermediate stops.
Oddly enough railways in most of Japan manage to have door position indicators at every station
The music is worse than train announcements on LNER ECML when trying to have a conversation in the first 10 mins of a trip . . . .
Do you know that the frame at 0:15 it's in real life home of my aunt in Tirano!! you practically trespass my aunt's property in TS XDDDDD
Was born in London in the late 70s and also grew up in London so I got memories of traveling on theses trains at an age where I started to travel into central London on my own or with friends
I never realised that the W&C 1938 stock was like The Underground's 1927 stock, yet London Transport 1938 stock had undertrain electrical equipment and was based on their experimental 1935 stock. Old fashioned Southern Railway or what! When you say that the centre rail was moved outside the running rails, I'm confused. Was this rail the live rail or the earth return, or was there no earth return other than the tunnel itself? London Transport's tube system is four rail!
The layout of electrification on the underground is something that is little understood.
Originally, like the overground lines, it was assumed that DC+ would run through a conductor rail insulated from ground, while DC- would run on the traction rails and like the supply, be bonded to ground.
But there was a problem where steel was used in the tunnels.
Because the tunnels are larger than the rails, they have lower electrical resistance than the rail and clay combined. Therefore, the current was taking a shortcut along the tunnel walls. While this was not directly a problem, a DC current results in electrolysis, but since rust is an insulator, at the point of contact between the cast sections, the current ran through the bolts. During the process, the electrolysis added metal from one section to the bolts, while the next section subtracted it. This obviously caused the bolts to deform and fail.
That was the only reason for the introduction of the 4th rail.
Try asking that to the workers on the track. While they are completely i what they are doing, very few will understand the reasons why.
They look shocked and appalled 🤣
One comment notes all the twists, turns and bouncing. Overlooked because of that was the unfortunate circumstance that, also being longer and wider, replacement by the current new stock was delayed because it made contact with the tunnel lining if driven at more than walking pace. I remember seeing one of the old stock fitted with a plywood mock-up of the new stock front so that tight spots could be found. The tunnel lining joints were ground down in some places (look at the tunnel entrances at Bank) and the speed is still limited leaving and entering Bank to avoid excessive rolling. That's the reason for the crawling speed at those points. The rush hours are characterised by passengers cramed in like sardines. A good ride at other times.
has to be one of if not the only underground/subway/metro who needs to b removed by crane and never sees the light of day unless being removed by crane
then again, the depot actually is open to sunlight on one side: there depot’s Spur Road side is open to the elements
It isn't the case now but, before it's late 70s modernisation, the Glasgow Subway had a similar arrangement, although the open pit was actually over the two running lines and directly under the surface depot. If you're unfamiliar with this still unique system, check it out... there is a number of TH-cam videos covering it in its original form, as well as its current manifestation.
Sliding Doors? I’ve never seen that movie, though I did watch Hudson Hawk, starring Bruce Willis, because they use the London Post Office Railway. Heck, he even ride on one of these. Fun movie with musical segments.
Incidentally I only saw a few clips of Sliding Doors while Mum was watching it, and thought it strange that they tried passing off Waterloo as Embankment. As for its mention in the video, that wasn't actually part of the original script.
@@DC4260Productions Interesting
The crucial thing about this line is that it crosses the river North - South and should be connected up to the Northern City from Moorfields and then onwards from Waterloo on the alternative Bakerloo Extension via Camberwell. With a platform at Blackfriars, which it underpasses, this would relieve other lines and give simpler changes to other routes eg Central and DLR at Bank, District at Blackfriars and at Moorfields a connection to the Elizabeth Line too.
Great video, well researched and well presented. I use these pretty much every day and this was fascinating. Since the COVID pandemic, they've stopped the Saturday services now. At least it isn't as bad to get into the city as it used to be, thanks to the Elizabeth Line.
I've been on them 🙂 back in the day. Spruced up as pictured, they're remarkably modern-looking for a thirties-designed/manufactured train.
The outro looks like the port of Tauranga. And I've only been there once off a cruise from Sydney 8 years ago. Don't know why I know that😂BTW, great video. Thanks
Man, this is amazing. Great research and very informative.
The grand ambition of the LSWR was to connect the City of London with a river crossing and a substantial mainline terminus to rival or exceed Charing Cross Station, those plans were never realised, Waterloo as a terminus and the minor line of the Waterloo and City were the substitute for their grand scheme
I was lucky enough to ride in these once, on my first visit to London in 1988. With their small windows, I felt they looked really different from the other underground stock and were quite submarine-like! Thanks for the detailed information about these.
Not often I get to laugh out loud at a railway related video. I'll never be able to hear the word 'southern' again without laughing. Excellent.
Absolutely fantastic video, thanks - I rode on these in the early '80s and always thought they'd been like the ones on the Isle Of Wight at the time, so learned masses here!
Thanks again and subscribed!
I can only imagine how bizarre the Island Line would have looked with 487s running on it. Dare say they would've received yellow ends for that route.
WTF that sudden vinyl shriek blue my earoles.....plonker.😄
Always love people bring called a Plonker...
Perhaps unsurprisingly, I learnt the word after watching Only Fools and Horses.
I thought that the class 482s are the same as the 1992 stocks
They were delivered in the same time as the current Central Line cars.
They are the same design as the 1992 stock
They are to look at but are obviously 4 cars shorter and don't have ATO, they are fitted with tripcocks instead. The cab layout is slightly different aswell with no aircon along with a few other things.
River Timms . London and South Wistern love it. Priston in Lancash're?
....the Waterloo und Sooty Line.....
Why a picture of a Dc at Boston Road at 1:55? Just curious.
Just a random transition screen.
Tube trains looked very weird in NSE colours.
Fascinating and very well researched docco, by the way.
Upvoting for plonker.
The picture of the green Southern locomotive I believe was taken at Ropley, quite near to where I live. By the way, what simulator was used for the red train at the end? Surely not OpenBVE?
Train simulator classic
It's definitely openBVE, I have the line/train stock on my computer
Of all my countless rides on the UndergrounD, I only used the Waterloo and City once...and that was with my father in the 1950s. I do remember the event as the cars were the 1940s ones in (to me) the non-London Transport , at that time, silver.
I have no clue what any of the people here complaining about the music are talking about. Perhaps it could've been slightly quieter in places but I had no trouble understanding what you were saying at any point.
The well timed music did add to making this an entertaining video. - Please don't remove it next time, but perhaps consider turning it down slightly.
Why have the 'music' at all? It was not a music video. A silent background is best for people with hearing problems.
7.41-7.43 "Besides the release of Asia's debut album 1982", what?
That's a reference to an English band called Asia, and I happen to like their first album.
It doesn’t rain very often Down the Drain.
Great video buddy, liked and subscribed for more, always loved the class 487's, the WL&C line is surprisingly busy, until you actually think of what its purpose is
One of the features of the W&C is that the line is full of twists and turns. Hardly any of it runs in a straight line, but instead keeps bending left and right, left and right, but also with some up and down. This may be why it's colloquially known as the Drain. During the journey the end doors from one carriage to the next jump around relative to each other, rarely actually lining up. I recall this being more extreme on the 487s than the current stock, perhaps because they had looser coupling and more bouncy suspension.
The crazy thing about this is another subway class that wasn’t really known to the public the CTA 2000 series from Illinois Chicago USA It was the high performance class after some cars were designed behind PCC trolley technology and comfort like a passenger car after 6 year the CTA quickly produced the 2200 series which was a boxy stainless steel car to compete with the 1960s new DKR routes in the middle meridians of the highways after the 10 or 15 year. If fade into the background and was quickly rust on too heavy lines and then pushed onto low service lines and it’s later life and retired a year before the 487 class
Really interesting, thanks.
Those of use that used it in the 1960's always knew it as the DRAIN
Those who used it during the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s and 2010s also called it the Drain.
I can't speak for anyone since 2020, because of the pandemic.
Just when you think you know the Waterloo and City line, this 15 minutes of excellence comes along and blows my mind
Thumbs Up! at 1:51
I only used this line once, despite being in London for years. It would have been in the later 1950s and these cars were silver overall and very distinctive in their design.
Are you Aussie or Kiwi?
Kiwi
Never get them mixed up,cardinal sin
Kiwi of course, you plonker!
Excellence information and worth watching this video. Tremendous work indeed. I highly appreciate.
Yo, how do you know all this stuff? I was hoooooked 😃
Agreed I only know about the modern day lines not the older...
What was the name of the first two songs? I'm a piano (-ish) player and wanna give those a try haha.
I remember these.
I believe is shares drivers with the Central Line. Just as well, really.
Most informative. Thanks for making the effort to put this together. Cheers.
Any fellow Asia fan deserves a subscription. Great video too. Thanks
Lovely stuff
Maybe KR Models should try making these.
In the sixties the rolling stock coaches were painted Southern Region green
Very interesting video 👍
Certainly one of the most unusual lines in London
Anybody remember a 1960s BBC programme staring Gerald Harper called Adam Adamant?
One episode was about trains disappearing on the W&C
(fiction of course).
Incidentally WC also stands for,well you know.Could this be why the W&C is called the drain ?
The traction motors sound almost identical to the Sydney red rattlers
Yep, any tube user will know what the 'drain' is
Great video, and such a unique railway line!