The conductor stake gets its name from what are more commonly today called downspouts associated with roof gutters, or the intermediary pieces that joined the two. Some of these in the 19th century were quite elaborately decorated. The round headed stake you've got there I've always heard referred to as a mushroom stake. Nice presentation!
Where would the "conductor" name have come from? This is the type of history I love learning about. Yep, mushroom stake is what I've heard that one called mostly around my area.
Olof - thank you! See, I learn something every time! This is awesome. Thank you, thank you! As for the reference to the "mushroom" stake, that's a new one for me. Never heard it, even at the tinsmith convergence. I will have to tell the guys!
Sara, thank you so much for taking the time to do this video, it was so awesome and helpful!!! BTW, Your work bench is spotless compared to mine. I tell my wife that "I refuse to organize my space because it would interfere with the creative process"...lol. So far I've got a hatchet stake done. Just seemed to be the easiest as I'm trying to keep things to learning traditional blacksmithing by forge welding the stakes onto the mandrels...not sure what I got myself into with this project but so far I'm super excited to keep going, might just be the rarest set ever when done. I actually found a set you showed in the picture with the holder on eBay yesterday, I think it's #964. Wasn't sure if all the mandrels were there. Thanks to this I went back and looked and all 10 pieces are there and in very excellent condition...he's asking $2400. Honestly seems to me as PEXTO's way of marketing a do it all kit, I wondered about stability also...it'd still be neat to have, what's your thoughts? Problem is shipping from New Jersey to Texas. The hollow mandrels were common around here among hvac duct work guys but not many other stakes(or at least what I've found). Thanks again for posting this...this is the knowledge I couldn't acquire from catalogue pictures. Checked out the tinsmith convergence in Ohio. My Dad and I have been talking about it alot, really hope we can make it happen. Can't wait to see what videos you and Bob have planned, would be interesting to see the spout joinery on a tea kettle!!! Keep on tinkering and filming and I'll keep telling folks in my neck of the woods about your channel😊. Sorry for writing a book here...lol!
Hey Jeff! Gah, I have to clean my bench or I run out of "counter space" to do the work itself...the place to set things gets smaller and smaller and more piled with sh*t and suddenly it's necessary to clean or I'm doing work on the floor of the garage! You definitely need to show off the stakes you're making when they're finished! And there's some great mixes for preserving them to keep of the rust. I can look it up - it's from my blacksmith uncle. $2400 seems high, to be honest. If you can make/find true stakes, I'd personally choose that over the interchangeable one. It's just an interesting invention for sure! The hollow mandrels were common around here for a long time - you couldn't give them away. Now they're rare again. Hopefully I can make the convergence too - there is a historical novel conference I might be at around the same time. If so, there is always next year. You and your dad would have a blast! It is in Ohio at Sauder Village, the weekend after Father's Day. - Bob has yet to put it all on tintinkers DOT org website. hahaha Yes, we are excited and nervous to start the authentic fur trade kettles. We're working through a bit of a backlog in the shop. But catching up. And thanks for passing along the word! Appreciate it loads! Cheers and always write a book (I do ...here and in real life! hahaha)
Thank you for the video. Enjoyed watching. Nice selection you have to work with. Currently I have only a Beakhorn, Double Seaming, and a small Creasing Stake. I still need to get a stake plate. Thanks again for sharing....
You can always use a vise to hold the stakes, too, which I'm sure you know/do. :) But yes, the plate is so nice! Happy hunting! And thanks for watching. :)
Thank you so much for this video I could start looking for some of these tools I'm just starting out tennsmith appreciate your knowledge can you tell me about hammers what type of hammers to get thank you Bob
You are welcome - thanks for watching! Check out Ebay for stakes and tools. For hammers, a ball pein, some rawhide, and a setting down hammer are all you need to get started.
Hi again My last comment for the night. Great video and explanation of the stakes by the way. Remember, the tools and processes you are describing a basically tinsmithing techniques as applied to copper. Traditional coppersmithing basically is a hand process, raising and stretching with hammers over stakes and heads ( similar to #3 in the illustration). The copper was generally heavier than tin, the lightest probably equal to 20ga. galvanized, and finished by planishing, to harden the metal and close the grain (yes even Copper has a grain). Again this is not criticism just information. Raising is a process also used by silversmiths to form hollow ware,just as an aside. I learned some, I stress some, raising from my father who was also a sheet metal worker, he was taught by his father who actually was a coppersmith. (my grandfather actually served his apprenticeship in the metal shops of the NYC railroad when he was a pup). As I said I offer this for information only!! I am by no means an expert. Since I have retired I have been trying to recall the things my dad taught me and apply them. Luckily, I inherited both his tools and those of my grandfather, hammers and heads mostly, as I say, it is a hammer intensive enterprise (you may actually have seen pictures of the types of hammers I am talking about). Actually we sheet metal workers( havc worker persons :)))) also have a small tradition of hand raising as well. Sorry to appear so long winded, but I applaud what you and Bob have and what you are doing and It is just exciting to have contact with Like minded souls! I will try to get my workspace in a presentable condition and send you some pictures of my collection of stuff.
william dorn william dorn Hi again Bill! Thank you for watching another video and for all of your greatInput and feedback. I to use these tools for a vast amount of coppersmithing in my garage as does Bob, and love that they can be interchanged between tin and copper metal. How fantastic to have him here is had so many tools and knowledge from your family. Please feel free to send me photos as my email is available on my website. I have never tried my hand at silver but it looks absolutely beautiful to work with as a metal. It is a wonderful thing that the Internet has connected so many people who feel so connected to this trade and craft and I am thrilled you have found me and Bob!
Thank you for enjoying them! Do you want a rotary hand machine or a hand tool? The rotary machines are vintage and are usually the stovepipe crimpers (not the official name - have to go look that one up), and they are hard to find. There are some great hand crimpers - you can find them in hardware stores in the snips (electrical tool) area.
What all do you use the creasing stake for in traditional tinsmithing? Is it mostly for rolling straight edges w/ wire inside? I just got a creasing stake that I am planning to use for making tubes. I would love to learn more things I can do with it.
It is used traditionally for a number of things, but yes, I primarily use it for preparing an edge to take a wire. It can also be used for tricky edges; for instance, I use it the most even now when making traditional dust pans that have a flared edge. But basically the rule goes...if you can use it for something you're doing, and it works well, keep on using it! :)
@@housecopper damn. The union hall has a full set. Including to ones you said you're missing. Need to find some of my own now. And land to build a good sized workshop on.
My son has just bought his first house. According to the history of the property a tinsmith lived and worked there in the 1800's. He found what looks like some form of anvil in the cellar. Would love to know if it belonged to the original tinsmith? Could I send you a picture of it to see what you think ?
My wife and I are both very interested in tinsmithing and really enjoy your videos. Could you tell us what book that was you showed those other stakes at the end of your video. Also, do you have a library of books that you refer too? If so, could you share them with us please? Thanks for the really well made videos.
Very cool - glad to hear you are enjoying the videos! The book is Sheet Metal Workers' Manual by L. Broemel. I'm not sure it's still in print. I get most of my books at the annual tinsmith convergence (this year it's in NYC). I do have a library of books, but it would be a VERY long list. Look for the one I mention as well as The Art of the Tinsmith by DeVoe, The Complete Tinsmith & Tinman's or Tinner's Trade Vol. 1 by Shay Lelegren, visit the tintinkers website, and take some folk school classes. Have fun learning!
I just discovered your channel. I was a sheet metal pattern maker many years ago. I would love to shake off the cobwebs and revive my long, unpracticed skills and layout knowledge now that I am retired. How about hammers and mallets? Do you use wooden mallets of one sort or other to shape without stretching/distorting your sheet stock? And do you have a steel swage block with concave shapes for spoons, ladels or pot lids or do you use wooden dishing blocks? Cheers from Alberta, Canada.
I do use a steel swage block (usually with leather to protect the copper sheet) and also wooden blocks. You have great questions! I'll do some more videos on tools of the trade - snips, hammers, and the like. :)
Hi Andrew, of course - the written source is Sheet Metal Workers' Manual: A Complete, Practical Instruction Book on the Sheet Metal Industry, Machinery, and Tools, and Related Subjects, Including the Oxy-Acetylene Welding and Cutting Process by L. Broemel (lol long title, ain't it?). It was published in 1942. Not sure if it's still in print? I got my copy at one of the tinsmith convergences.
@@housecopper thank you for your reply, I am excited to add this to my shop. Its amazing what those old timers could to with a plethora of patience. Also if I may ask have you ever looked into metal spinning?
@@housecopper i also found the 1918 print version in Google books. books.google.com/books?id=9dg7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
@@andrewyork3869 I am thrilled you found the Google version - is it free? I love hearing they have transported old books online, and saved them, so I hope you have access to the whole thing! Super happy to hear you are adding this to your library - it's very useful! And yes, I have absolutely looked into metal spinning. I'd LOVE to do it. Watched several of Terry's videos, and spoke to Jeff down in Georgia, who spins copper. Someday I'll get down there to learn at his feet, but I don't have a lathe powerful enough to spin the gauge I'd want to do. Hopefully...someday...
IT'S SURPRISING THAT YOU DON'T SHOW THE HARDWOOD ANVILS USED IN WORKING NON FERROUS METAL WORK, OVERALL IT'S AN INCREDIBLE TUTORIAL ON A CRAFT THAT NOBODY EVEN CONSIDERS AN ART FORM THAT'S DISAPPEARING ONLY BECAUSE IT ISN'T DEPENDENT ON A COMPUTER PROGRAM, JOLLY GOOD SHOW, JOLLY GOOD,,,,,,,,,,,
Hi Sara, just watched this video again and was wondering what you favourite, or most useful stake is? Also, do you know what the name of this stake is? th-cam.com/video/abMsu4BdjB8/w-d-xo.html Thanks again!
That's a fun question! I use a mushroom stake and hollow mandrel the most. Bob uses a double bottoming stake the most. The one in the video looks like a smaller version of a beakhorn, but I'm gonna check with the guys and see if anyone knows for sure!
Thanks for the help your very gracious to share your knowledge lovely lady.
You are quite welcome - thank you very much for watching!
The conductor stake gets its name from what are more commonly today called downspouts associated with roof gutters, or the intermediary pieces that joined the two. Some of these in the 19th century were quite elaborately decorated. The round headed stake you've got there I've always heard referred to as a mushroom stake. Nice presentation!
Olof Jansson was going to research that name, thanks for sharing that.
Where would the "conductor" name have come from? This is the type of history I love learning about. Yep, mushroom stake is what I've heard that one called mostly around my area.
@@jeffsandling5981 The conductor "conducts" the water from the gutter down and ultimately away from the structure.
Olof - thank you! See, I learn something every time! This is awesome. Thank you, thank you! As for the reference to the "mushroom" stake, that's a new one for me. Never heard it, even at the tinsmith convergence. I will have to tell the guys!
@@olofjansson9356 On the right track, gutters (aka eaves trough), conductor "head" largely formed by hand on the conductor stake
interesting presentation, nice collection
Thanks for visiting xoxox
Sara, thank you so much for taking the time to do this video, it was so awesome and helpful!!! BTW, Your work bench is spotless compared to mine. I tell my wife that "I refuse to organize my space because it would interfere with the creative process"...lol. So far I've got a hatchet stake done. Just seemed to be the easiest as I'm trying to keep things to learning traditional blacksmithing by forge welding the stakes onto the mandrels...not sure what I got myself into with this project but so far I'm super excited to keep going, might just be the rarest set ever when done. I actually found a set you showed in the picture with the holder on eBay yesterday, I think it's #964. Wasn't sure if all the mandrels were there. Thanks to this I went back and looked and all 10 pieces are there and in very excellent condition...he's asking $2400. Honestly seems to me as PEXTO's way of marketing a do it all kit, I wondered about stability also...it'd still be neat to have, what's your thoughts? Problem is shipping from New Jersey to Texas. The hollow mandrels were common around here among hvac duct work guys but not many other stakes(or at least what I've found). Thanks again for posting this...this is the knowledge I couldn't acquire from catalogue pictures. Checked out the tinsmith convergence in Ohio. My Dad and I have been talking about it alot, really hope we can make it happen. Can't wait to see what videos you and Bob have planned, would be interesting to see the spout joinery on a tea kettle!!! Keep on tinkering and filming and I'll keep telling folks in my neck of the woods about your channel😊. Sorry for writing a book here...lol!
Hey Jeff! Gah, I have to clean my bench or I run out of "counter space" to do the work itself...the place to set things gets smaller and smaller and more piled with sh*t and suddenly it's necessary to clean or I'm doing work on the floor of the garage! You definitely need to show off the stakes you're making when they're finished! And there's some great mixes for preserving them to keep of the rust. I can look it up - it's from my blacksmith uncle. $2400 seems high, to be honest. If you can make/find true stakes, I'd personally choose that over the interchangeable one. It's just an interesting invention for sure! The hollow mandrels were common around here for a long time - you couldn't give them away. Now they're rare again. Hopefully I can make the convergence too - there is a historical novel conference I might be at around the same time. If so, there is always next year. You and your dad would have a blast! It is in Ohio at Sauder Village, the weekend after Father's Day. - Bob has yet to put it all on tintinkers DOT org website. hahaha
Yes, we are excited and nervous to start the authentic fur trade kettles. We're working through a bit of a backlog in the shop. But catching up. And thanks for passing along the word! Appreciate it loads! Cheers and always write a book (I do ...here and in real life! hahaha)
Great video, have an ancient set of these in my classroom and I really had no idea what a lot of them were for.
Thank you for the video. Enjoyed watching. Nice selection you have to work with. Currently I have only a Beakhorn, Double Seaming, and a small Creasing Stake. I still need to get a stake plate. Thanks again for sharing....
You can always use a vise to hold the stakes, too, which I'm sure you know/do. :) But yes, the plate is so nice! Happy hunting! And thanks for watching. :)
Hollow mandrel stake can also be solid. The bolt on the hollow can be used to bolt it to the stake plate
I've never seen a solid mandrel! Very cool!
The videos are great. Thanks for making them
Thank you so much for watching!
Thank you so much for this video I could start looking for some of these tools I'm just starting out tennsmith appreciate your knowledge can you tell me about hammers what type of hammers to get thank you Bob
You are welcome - thanks for watching! Check out Ebay for stakes and tools. For hammers, a ball pein, some rawhide, and a setting down hammer are all you need to get started.
Hi again My last comment for the night. Great video and explanation of the stakes by the way. Remember, the tools and processes you are describing a basically tinsmithing techniques as applied to copper. Traditional coppersmithing basically is a hand process, raising and stretching with hammers over stakes and heads ( similar to #3 in the illustration). The copper was generally heavier than tin, the lightest probably equal to 20ga. galvanized, and finished by planishing, to harden the metal and close the grain (yes even Copper has a grain). Again this is not criticism just information. Raising is a process also used by silversmiths to form hollow ware,just as an aside. I learned some, I stress some, raising from my father who was also a sheet metal worker, he was taught by his father who actually was a coppersmith. (my grandfather actually served his apprenticeship in the metal shops of the NYC railroad when he was a pup). As I said I offer this for information only!! I am by no means an expert. Since I have retired I have been trying to recall the things my dad taught me and apply them. Luckily, I inherited both his tools and those of my grandfather, hammers and heads mostly, as I say, it is a hammer intensive enterprise (you may actually have seen pictures of the types of hammers I am talking about). Actually we sheet metal workers( havc worker persons :)))) also have a small tradition of hand raising as well. Sorry to appear so long winded, but I applaud what you and Bob have and what you are doing and It is just exciting to have contact with Like minded souls! I will try to get my workspace in a presentable condition and send you some pictures of my collection of stuff.
william dorn william dorn Hi again Bill! Thank you for watching another video and for all of your greatInput and feedback. I to use these tools for a vast amount of coppersmithing in my garage as does Bob, and love that they can be interchanged between tin and copper metal. How fantastic to have him here is had so many tools and knowledge from your family. Please feel free to send me photos as my email is available on my website. I have never tried my hand at silver but it looks absolutely beautiful to work with as a metal. It is a wonderful thing that the Internet has connected so many people who feel so connected to this trade and craft and I am thrilled you have found me and Bob!
william dorn Are you in the hvac trade? That's what I do for a living (Industrial HVAC/refrigeration/Chiller maint.) at a large steel mill in Texas.
Bottoming stakes are for finishing seams on can bottoms and such
This one I knew! Thank you! :)
I really enjoy your very informative videos! I'm looking for a tool that crimps the edges of decorative tin. Do you know of such a tool? Thanks!
Thank you for enjoying them! Do you want a rotary hand machine or a hand tool? The rotary machines are vintage and are usually the stovepipe crimpers (not the official name - have to go look that one up), and they are hard to find. There are some great hand crimpers - you can find them in hardware stores in the snips (electrical tool) area.
What all do you use the creasing stake for in traditional tinsmithing? Is it mostly for rolling straight edges w/ wire inside?
I just got a creasing stake that I am planning to use for making tubes. I would love to learn more things I can do with it.
It is used traditionally for a number of things, but yes, I primarily use it for preparing an edge to take a wire. It can also be used for tricky edges; for instance, I use it the most even now when making traditional dust pans that have a flared edge. But basically the rule goes...if you can use it for something you're doing, and it works well, keep on using it! :)
Union sheet metal worker here, the holder is very stable. didn't know it was rare, though.
They have become rare, that's for sure!
@@housecopper damn. The union hall has a full set. Including to ones you said you're missing. Need to find some of my own now. And land to build a good sized workshop on.
Informative; liked the little "Mummy" at the end I guess it was "mommy"
oh yeah, lol, my editing missed that one. Woops! And yeah, I try to get these videos in between "mom asks" from one of the littles lololol.
Where can you buy these great stakes?
Usually Ebay, estate sales, garage sales, antique sellers, or every June at the tintinkers.org tinsmith convergence. :)
My son has just bought his first house. According to the history of the property a tinsmith lived and worked there in the 1800's. He found what looks like some form of anvil in the cellar. Would love to know if it belonged to the original tinsmith? Could I send you a picture of it to see what you think ?
Yup, my email is on my website - send over a photo and I can try to help identify it! I'm sure it's easily done!
My wife and I are both very interested in tinsmithing and really enjoy your videos. Could you tell us what book that was you showed those other stakes at the end of your video. Also, do you have a library of books that you refer too? If so, could you share them with us please?
Thanks for the really well made videos.
Very cool - glad to hear you are enjoying the videos! The book is Sheet Metal Workers' Manual by L. Broemel. I'm not sure it's still in print. I get most of my books at the annual tinsmith convergence (this year it's in NYC). I do have a library of books, but it would be a VERY long list. Look for the one I mention as well as The Art of the Tinsmith by DeVoe, The Complete Tinsmith & Tinman's or Tinner's Trade Vol. 1 by Shay Lelegren, visit the tintinkers website, and take some folk school classes. Have fun learning!
I just discovered your channel. I was a sheet metal pattern maker many years ago. I would love to shake off the cobwebs and revive my long, unpracticed skills and layout knowledge now that I am retired. How about hammers and mallets? Do you use wooden mallets of one sort or other to shape without stretching/distorting your sheet stock? And do you have a steel swage block with concave shapes for spoons, ladels or pot lids or do you use wooden dishing blocks? Cheers from Alberta, Canada.
I do use a steel swage block (usually with leather to protect the copper sheet) and also wooden blocks. You have great questions! I'll do some more videos on tools of the trade - snips, hammers, and the like. :)
@@housecopper Thanks. I'll look for those videos.
Where can I buy tin sheets?
That one is hard - Bob usually gets them by the pallet from Milwaukee, and picks them up in person.
thanks Sister ;-)
You are welcome 😊
If I may ask what was your written source that you were showing in the video?
Thanks for sharing, this was a very good run down.
Hi Andrew, of course - the written source is Sheet Metal Workers' Manual: A Complete, Practical Instruction Book on the Sheet Metal Industry, Machinery, and Tools, and Related Subjects, Including the Oxy-Acetylene Welding and Cutting Process by L. Broemel (lol long title, ain't it?). It was published in 1942. Not sure if it's still in print? I got my copy at one of the tinsmith convergences.
@@housecopper thank you for your reply, I am excited to add this to my shop. Its amazing what those old timers could to with a plethora of patience.
Also if I may ask have you ever looked into metal spinning?
@@housecopper i also found the 1918 print version in Google books.
books.google.com/books?id=9dg7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA11&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
@@andrewyork3869 I am thrilled you found the Google version - is it free? I love hearing they have transported old books online, and saved them, so I hope you have access to the whole thing! Super happy to hear you are adding this to your library - it's very useful! And yes, I have absolutely looked into metal spinning. I'd LOVE to do it. Watched several of Terry's videos, and spoke to Jeff down in Georgia, who spins copper. Someday I'll get down there to learn at his feet, but I don't have a lathe powerful enough to spin the gauge I'd want to do. Hopefully...someday...
Conductor stakes were for gutter conductor forming
Thank you so much for sharing! I didn't know that!
IT'S SURPRISING THAT YOU DON'T SHOW THE HARDWOOD ANVILS USED IN WORKING NON FERROUS METAL WORK, OVERALL IT'S AN INCREDIBLE TUTORIAL ON A CRAFT THAT NOBODY EVEN CONSIDERS AN ART FORM THAT'S DISAPPEARING ONLY BECAUSE IT ISN'T DEPENDENT ON A COMPUTER PROGRAM, JOLLY GOOD SHOW, JOLLY GOOD,,,,,,,,,,,
I just picked a stake holder and some stakes at a high school auction for a really good price
WOO HOO! congrats, you!!!!
Who’s “Bob”?
Hi Sara, just watched this video again and was wondering what you favourite, or most useful stake is? Also, do you know what the name of this stake is? th-cam.com/video/abMsu4BdjB8/w-d-xo.html Thanks again!
That's a fun question! I use a mushroom stake and hollow mandrel the most. Bob uses a double bottoming stake the most. The one in the video looks like a smaller version of a beakhorn, but I'm gonna check with the guys and see if anyone knows for sure!
@@housecopper Thanks for the quick reply! I was wondering if there's one i could use for multi purpose.
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