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How to rescale the geo-dome plans to any size.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2017
- Like the title says, this video shows how to rescale the geo-dome plans to any size you like. Be careful though because if you rescale up or down too much it can cause issues with usability and structural strength. Any questions let me know in the comments section.
thanks John...its often the simple questions without quick answers that discourages us. You nailed it.......................
Thanks John you made that easy to understand, you should make an excel sheet for your business then you can price up any dome in a few clicks and then make more domes:-)
many thanks, will do this with your great unity dome design :)
Thanks Paul, another great video. Is there a minimum size for the GD27? I’m wanting to buy the plans but I can only build to 3m diameter.
given that geometry or frequency doesn't change it's rather trivial to apply the scale factor to the linear dimensions to get the new ones.
However scaling some elements like doors and perhaps windows with the dome itself isn't a practical solution, because especially doors (but also for example floor height) should follow more or less some standards in order to be comfortable to use by humans. Even a door at 1.8m would be too short.
What I did on a sheets document is to estimate to total usable area that I want (usable I mean to consider that some sloped areas might be only partially useful, because a person won't be able to stand upright there, and some would be too small even for cabinets or house appliances) - in my case I'm planning a 2 floors (eventually with small attic) house for all-year living.
Currently I consider radius of the dome between 6 and 7 meters (that really depends if my sister decides to join in on the project :)).
Then I try to adapt the dome dimension to the needed height of two floors. For example if you're doing even frequency dome and it's exactly semi-sphere (so your first floor is the equator of the sphere) then even on the first floor the walls will immediately start to converge, ie you'll get small slope on the first floor and big slope on the 2nd one.
For this purpose I decided on a v3 7/12th dome (ie the equator of the sphere will be about 1.2meter above ground level for a dome with 6~7 meter radius), this way the first floor (while still having slight convex walls) will have mostly vertical walls - ie would be entirely normal (except for the round-ish walls of course :)).
At the same time I also calculated that if I want to avoid removing dome struts and hubs in order to put a normal size door I would need a triangle large enough to insert in it a door with height 2m and width at least 90cm - such equilateral triangle would need to have side of size 3.3m, which can only be done either with much larger dome size or lower frequency like v2 for example. I haven't excluded v2 dome I prefer a v3 for the more round shape and still relatively low structure complexity (of course a v2 would be even simpler).
But if I want a v3 dome without removing struts I decided that I should raise the dome on a cylindrical base (I consider about 90 cm for my plans, but perhaps lower height would also be fine for the purpose of a door placement). The cylindrical base is great also for the above-mentioned vertical walls - this way the 1st floor again will have entirely vertical walls (even slightly wider toward the ceiling), but also half of the 2nd floor's height would be with very small slope - ie the usable area (I consider it to have at least 2m height) will be much larger.
depending on the specific size you choose you'll end up with either a slightly taller central ceiling of the 2nd floor, or even a small attic above it (if you go for a big dome with 7m radius and cylindrical base of about 90cm). Depending on your area municipality building constraint the cylindrical base can be either on the ground (ie the home would look a little like observatory), or can be underground (so the dome and your 1st floor windows would start from the ground level) - at most places even for low residential homes 8 meters height should be ok, so I would go with on the ground (rather than underground) base for better & bigger 1st floor windows.
For smaller domes like in the video example I guess some compromises can be made with standard sizes for doors, floors height and windows, because probably it's not going to be a residential dome, but perhaps a greenhouse or a tent.
Optimizing the materials dimensions, while important of course I would leave for after you've decided what's the purpose of your dome, and what size would be good to be happy to use it.
If I have to live in it daily and the door is 1.8m because I downsized it because my local hardware store only had beams and other materials in limited size I would be unhappy for a long time. Otherwise it might take some extra delivery (and perhaps cost) while building it, but afterwards I'll be happy using (living in) it. :) Just my two cents.
Something that I'm more interested is how do you calculate the load you can put on the dome? Obviously that's also material and shape (of the struts) related question, but I'll be curious to know any option so that I can compare. For example in my country wooden domes are more popular and almost noone makes steel ones. So among the (few) dome builders the accepted opinion is that the maximum size would be dome with radius of 6 meters, and the main reason is that wooden beam (usually about 15cm wide and 5cm thick) wouldn't strong enough after certain length (for a v3 dome that would be about 2.3m) ... the alternative would be to increase the frequency to v4 and with it increase the materials and complexity for the frame of the structure (and make doors & windows design even harder because of the smaller triangles).
These opinions aren't actually well backed up by load calculations. One thing that I considered and decided not to use was rectangular beams (either wooden or steel I-beams).
The reason is that they have to be in certain orientation (with their 'backbone' vertical) in order to carry the load they're designed for - otherwise you'll end up paying for a lot more material that's not working as it should. Trouble with rectangular beams is that if you try to keep their backbones vertical it means that most of your hubs will become very very complex - on each level you'll have different connector hubs even for the same angles between struts, just because of the orientation and mounting options.
If you have the option to produce your own custom connector hubs that would be great, and then I would prefer to use steel I-beams, but to keep the dome structure simple enough I decided to go with steel pipes for struts and use a small spherical or cylindrical hub core so that pipes would fit well to it at most/or all/ angles (then the hub can be locked with two slightly bent steel plates /to match the dihedral angle/ and tightened with nuts&bolts).
I guess steel pipes like the ones used in scaffolding would be strong enough (if connected properly) but I still don't know how to calculate it even roughly.
But if I want the dome to carry the load of some of the internal walls too I guess I'll have to ask a proper architect for these load calculations (and a architect familiar with such structures that is)
Great video paul . Thanks . Your bevel method looks extremely worthy, and i am very curious to know what your plan set costs ? Looking forward to hearing from you.
Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and experience online
thankyou very mutch, easy to understand great
hy from Menorca
Hi, thank you for the video! Is it the same for a Zome? If i have dimensions for a Zome and want to make it smaller, what parameters i should change?
Hello Paul, can you please send me the measurement of all the triangle of the 6 m Dome ? thank youu
Can a Wagner dome be fully covered with a single pull down cover. I don't want to make a greenhouse. I'd like to make something to use for glamping. Thanks
Are you going to make the imperial conversion video?
Calculators suck, even when they have a near-nothing margin of error. I tried to model an icosaedron in Fusion360 made of triangles, and I needed to know the angle between faces. From the calculator, it's something near 221.8 degrees (one tenth of a degree sounds like a fairly close approximation, right?), but when applying that to the 5 triangles at the top, they just never met (and they were colliding at 221.9 degrees). To mitigate this, I took back the real formula, which is (180º + acos(sqrt(5) / 3)). That is to say you're supposed to keep expressions until the very end, with sines, cosines and tangents for the entire model. That way, you're sure that it's going to work flawlessly whatever size of dome you give as input. It looks a lot more tedious, but actually works much better when using a spreadsheet or a CAD.
Now, the reason for an icosaedron is that all faces are identical, no need to calculate and setup multiple triangle sizes, there is no order in there. That could sound that you're limited to a constrained size or structure, but it's actually consider that each triangle can be "supersampled" infinitely (or almost, as long as it makes sense) with very little calculation involved from one level to the next. The resulting shape will still be an icosaedron (unless you start plaing with curved arc segments that will get you to a near perfect sphere with a lot more problems to define the faces) made of tetraedic "bubbles" (the 4th side is inside, it's the original icosaedron's face). It's easier to design and evolve than "standard" geodome that has its shape defined once and for all, as each triangle can become 3 triangles, and so forth (or 9, or 27, etc., or anything in between).
Thank you for this comment, very much. I built a 3v 5/9ths dome (Optimum Wisdom Laboratories plans by Dr. Petty) and have been struggling to sort out the next build's plans. This is because I don't understand how the bevel angles are calculated for the edges of my triangles. I have been hoping to build a dome with only one triangle in it. I tried to work with Paul's "Unity Dome" plan - a beautiful looking thing - but the math doesn't work out when I try it. For instance, using an online law of sines calculator for the math I could not get the 10 "kites" to get all the way around the circle, using the lengths he provided. This gave me pause, because if that was wrong, could I rely on the claims of 11deg and 16deg for the bevel edges of the kites? I have struggled to figure out how to calculate the bevels of the edges of triangles (and "kites"). Can you point me to resources? Thank you!
@@jmvp415 To get the formula, I just asked Google about the angles in the icosaedron and found the complete demonstration in 3D trigonometry. For the supersampling/subdivision, it's piece of cake, because you know exactly what part of the circle is each median of the triangle is a chord of, so you can calculate the height of the middle of your triangle fairly easily and subdivide indefinitely. The great thing is you need to do the calculation only once per level of division, because icosaedron is a platonic solid (so is dodecaedron, but pentagons are not as easy to deal with as triangles), and even funnier, once you know the relation between the side of a triangle and the side of the subdividing triangle, you'll notice it's exactly the dame formula, recursively... It should be something like the tangent of that angle (π + acos(sqrt(5)/3) in radians) multiplied by the side of the triangle. infinitely
Hi Paull, do the bevel angle remain the same?
Never mind was able to get it running long enough to access the file. Thanks.
what is the ratio of the radius to the icosahedron triangle.
Thank you very much 🤗
excellent, thank you
I want to make a geodesic dome realy 30 ft diameter how plz how to make a febrication joint coupler and how to connect each other pipe plz some ideas
Great tuto but can't you put the scale factor in memory so you don't have to type all these digits every time?
Is it necessary to increase the size of the Triangles every time I increase the diameter of the Dome? Can it not be done by simply increasing the Triangles of a standard size?
Got a question. I purchased the G15 plans from you quite a while ago and since then the computer I had them on has pooped out on me. How would I go about getting another copy? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Are the bevelled frames changing? Or do they also stay the same degree as in the plans?
All angles stay the same, just rescale and you are good to go.
Is it possible to make a geodesic dome from a limited number of identical parts? Could you make one for example out of sets of three uniquely shaped struts?
Build Something check out Domerama.com. It has been great help to us. It has calculators for various frequency domes. We will be building a 2V dome which is very simple. They do the math for you.
Hello! Was wondering if you scale down the geo dome based on your pdf would it then also change the 6.5 angle of the frame cross section? Thanks!
If you scale down all the angles stay exactly the same.
Great video for Brits. Didn't do squat for us paying customers from the states. Time to round file your plans and seek help elsewhere. If I had a PHD in math.. I wouldn't have needed to purchase your plans. Sometime experience has high tuition.
Good for brits, australians, Europeans, Mexicans, Russians in fact everyone in the world except the states.... I hate imperial but I still did a video for rescaling in inches, it's here: th-cam.com/video/OEH_pTcszU0/w-d-xo.html
Nice info, thanks. Shame that the first screen caption at 0:04 misspells the subject of the video... calling it a "goe-dome" instead of "geo-dome".
Who let THAT one slip by?
Paul tu habla español ?
😊
,........очень жаль что не вссё понятно что Вы говорите ! Как можно получить данные для дверей и скошеных опор основания для радиуса 5 метров ?
Hi Igor, I can do a 5m version, which design was it? GD18 or GD27
Большое спасибо за ответ !Начал делать В3 , с двумя основными треугольниками , по Вашему калькулятору (geo-dome.co.uk/3v_tool.asp ) ! Сделал 69 больших треугольника - которые составят шестигранник , сейчас делаю маленькие для пятигранников.... диаметром 6 метров, как сделать основание не знаю !
Thank you so much for the answer !Started doing the v3 , with two major triangles in Your calculator ! Did 69 of the large triangle to form the hexagon , now doing little for pentahedra.... with a diameter of 6 meters. how to make base don't know.
.................. GD18
Scaling is just a matter linearity...
One word- 'AutoCad'
Hahaha, dang, not so smart, phones lol.
En spanishhh i dont understamd
Nancy Sosa qué parte no entendiste?
La medida de tu plan la divides entre la medida del tamaño que quieres hacer. El resultado es el “factor de escala”. Ese factor es la llave para convertir todas las medidas restantes a la medida deseada.
Ojalá haya podido ayudarte 🤗
Are you going to make the imperial conversion video?
Yes done that, you can see it here: th-cam.com/video/OEH_pTcszU0/w-d-xo.html