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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- Is Chani better in the Dune movies? Why Villeneuve's Chani is more interesting! (Spoilers for Dune & Dune Part Two)
Unravel the complex role of Chani in DuneThis video dives deep into Chani's character arc, comparing her portrayal in the original books by Frank Herbert to Denis Villeneuve's film adaptations.
Discover:
Why book-Chani is less prominent
How Villeneuve reinterprets Chani for the movies
The reasons behind Chani's rebellion against Paul's messianic status
How Chani's character development enhances the story's themes
Spoiler warning: This video discusses plot points from Dune, Dune Part Two, and the first Dune book.
So, is Villeneuve's Chani better? Watch to find out!
Mentioned in this video:
Dune by Frank Herbert
Dune (2021) film by Denis Villeneuve
Dune Part Two (2024) film by Denis Villeneuve
00:00 - Chapter 1
01:49 - Chapter 2
05:07 - Chapter 3
08:12 - Chapter 4
#dune #chani #atreides - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
I totally agree with your premise. Herbert was not happy that people idolized Paul after reading the first book. Villeneuve makes sure we see Chani’s reaction and this allows us to think critically as well.
one of the best parts of Dune is that it does not contain useless/cheap interpersonal drama.
the modern-teen "attitude" that chani displays in the movie is boring, pointless, and absolutely not in the book. in the book she is intelligent, disciplined, and absolutely dedicated to Paul.
@@alfreds.3023 What part of "I don't like seeing the man I fell in love with and that confided me all his fears and woes about being destined to take actions that'll lead to tens of billions of horrible deaths through the Universe, that was humble and told everyone he wasn't the messiah, take that very same path before my eyes and abandon all those concerns to embrace being worshipped as a war mongering cult leader" is too teenish for you?
There was nothing that bad about Paul in the first book,it was Herbert 's fault tbh.Although I hope Dennis doesn't make Paul more villainish in Messiah considering he added Paul's "lead them to Paradise" line which felt very different from the book counterpart
I'm saying that in my opinion Chani's character was diminished by the film.
In the book, Jessica and Chani do have concerns about Paul's becoming the Prophet. However, their worries are specific, practical, and not public knowledge. They are largely worried about Paul himself (not some moral issues about war and power).
Chani's personality in the film doesn't fit at all. A useful analogy is Feudal Japan: imagine Tokugawa Ieyasu's concubine behaving like that in public. It wouldn't make sense. Moreover, Fremen are samurai on steroids!
And Paul is no mere Shogun. He is literally the supreme being, the most powerful human in the universe. Everyone sees this.
Chani is a Sayyadina. Even Jessica comes to respect her wisdom and discipline. I saw none of that in the movie. I just saw arrogance, scowling, sarcasm, disdain. It made no sense.
Consider Jessica in the movie. She's perfectly portrayed. Everything she does shows her to be badass, feminine, a complex superhero. Jessica is all this, and did not need a smug expression, sarcasm, and emotional outbursts.
@@alfreds.3023 That seems better fleshed out, I'm not gonna argue since I've not read the books, just thought that Chani at no point seemed immature, though her role is clearly switched as to give us a POV on, someone who has good reasons to see through what is at play (since she knows Paul better than almost anyone and sees that he's given up on his beliefs as he follows that path; and furthermore, sees her people become more and more radicalized). In the movie, Paul proposing to take the Emperor's daughter as a wife isn't just some teen 'omg he cheated on me', it feels more as the final nail in the coffin of, Paul becomming someone who Chani can no longer recognized; she fell in love for the young man who was down with them, fighting the good fight and rejecting the idea that he was there to lead; and through the movie, that person simply 'dies' in a certain, silent way. The final nail in the coffin being his line of 'send them to paradise', uttered with a tone as if accepting defeat before fate itself. But I digress. It might be worse than the books for sure, I wouldn't know, but I think you're mischaracterizing and being too harsh on movie's Chani because you know and prefer another version of her. Needless to say, movies are a different format, they have less 'runtime' than a book, and less access to inner monologues and thoughts, meaning sometimes things need to be more explicit and expressive.
On repeated watching I certainly fell for DV's intent. Chani became the emotional mirror of Paul and we were drawn into it. I certainly had a lot of empathy for her. A woman who wanted two things, Arrakis for the Fremen as a people and the man she fell in love with. She got neither.
I’m sure she will come around and birth two children in which one of them will become a giant human sandworm
Chani in the movies: an actual character
Cani in the books: basically Mikasa Ackerman in Attack on titans
Rewatching Dune Part One, there seem to be two versions of Chani that Paul sees, one wearing a long white robe with her hair down, bright blue eyes and always smiling at Paul (I believe this is a vision of fledgling Sayyadina Chani as she is in the book) and another wearing a stillsuit with her hair tied up and dimmer blue eyes (which must be Feydakin Chani as we see her in Part Two). Also, notably, the former version of Chani can be seen in one vision with a crysknife and blood on her hands, probably signifying her support for Paul's War while the latter version of Chani seems to be more skeptical of Paul and even tries to kill him in one of his visions.
Interesting observation! It also shows that Paul's glimpses into the future can always change depending on how he decides. His visions were not yet entirely reliable at this point because he had not yet awakened as the Kwisatz Haderach.
I like this Chani rather than Fran Herbert's because she's strong and independent but at the same time so naive and idealist...
It takes some nerve to think that supporting a man who is always on the verge of madness because he can see the entire timeline of mankind from the farthest antiquity to the distant future is a weak woman.
Zendaya killed it..I never liked her before but she was amazing in Dune...wow.
Like best supporting actress good.
In the book, Paul at one point says his mother has become his enemy, because she is pushing him to embrace the Messiah role, which he can see will lead to the future of a bloody religious war/ jihad. Jihad is abhorrent to Paul, as it is a contradiction to the values of his father's Atreides House, which values human lives and quality of human lives. Chani is ambivalent about the idea of Paul being the "Messiah" of her people, up until the point where he becomes the Kiswatch Hadderach, the male Bene Gesserit that sits at the fulcrum of all giving and taking and can foresee the futures, at which point she can deny his abilities and importance to her people no longer.
there real Irony here that not only Paul but his farther wanted to use the Freman to regain power and overthrown the emperor, its only when Paul killed Jamis he to truly understood what his plan would mean.
That's not in the book. Paul thinks of his mother as his enemy not because how Jessica will act but because of what she represents. A Bene Gesserit in distress. This fact alone is sufficient to trigger the ancient legends implanted by the Missionaria Protectiva.
In the book, Jessica even disapproves at one moment when Paul endorses his religious role, and it is not to motivate the Fremen against the Harkonnen, it is to save Stilgar.
I 100% agree, and thank you for your take on this topic, because so many people kind of missed what Villeneuve's intent was with Chani. I appreciate the added complexity he brought with her character and the Freman overall.
I think in "Messiah" something will happen that will make her go with Paul, just going off of the books that has to happen. It will be interesting to see how that is tackled, rather it will be through her own choice, or through force, or maybe a combination of the two.
Well done! Of course, one of the big diff tween book and Part2 is the total change in how Paul is revived after drinking the water of life. In the book, Jessica does not use the "voice" nearly as often as in the films, and certainly never used it on Chani!
I really enjoy your story telling, and look fwd as a new subber to more interesting content of your choosing "junaesque"!!!
Thank you very much! The interaction between Chani and Jessica in Part 2 is certainly an intriguing one and I’m curious to see how Villeneuve will move forward with their character arcs
DV's Chani is Paul's soul. And while it seems Paul chooses the Jihad, he's actually choosing her (the path in which he thinks she will survive).
The problem with Chani is that she serves the same purpose Paul does in the books. In the movie, sure we see how the messianic aspect is terrible through her eyes, but the book didn't need her for that, because all of that information is relayed by Paul. We know he has doubts, and that he greatly fears what will happen, but he simply can't see a way forward without embracing the BG cult, though he tries in vain to navigate to a point which doesn't result in galaxy wide Jihad, and fails.
By moving all of this over to Chani, Paul is made lesser and comes across as someone who believes his own hype, but that's very different from the book Paul.
This is an example of how changing one character has a pretty big knock-on effect for other characters.
But then it also makes her seem a little bit dim. The book Chani knew the necessity of a political marriage, and was willing to make that sacrifice, but Paul told her the only thing Irulan would have of his was the name, and while Irulan would be wife in name, Chani would be wife in reality. In the movie she shows no understanding of the political realities and sulks off into the desert like a jilted teenager.
I can't say I'm a huge fan of what Denis did to some of the characters. Incredible film regardless, but lots of unnecessary changes that didn't really add more than they subtracted imo.
Exactly. Plus in the book, the jihad is a religious holy war only in appearence. In truth, it's a primal reaction of the entire human species that needs its stagnancy shaken and its genes mixed again after millenia of faufreluche cast system and Bene Gesserit lineage manipulations: so Paul has actually little power, if not none, to prevent it.
Writers sometimes use personal experiences to flesh out their characters. As Dune fans know when you mention the names Daniel and Marty, Herbert is supposed to have made a poignant wink to his loving relationship with his late wife Bev in Chapterhouse. I sincerely hope DV did not desacrate another wink to this love, had Herbert put some of it in the depiction of Paul and Chani's love. Chani, a woman supporting a man confronting feats of cosmic scope, obsessed with it. Ring a bell? Characters are written the way they are for a reason. I do not know this reason personnally and won't pretend I know, but I can suspect.
Finally a new video 😍
Yes Chani was transformed to drive home the point of Paul being a false prophet. However, it was a poor way of making the point. The introduction of non-believing/atheistic north vs a believing south of Fremen breaks the story. Not to mention the reduction of the Fremen to at worst religious fundamentalist and at best noble savages. The book is much kinder to Fremen culture and more critical of the Bene Gesserit's attempts to wield Paul as a weapon.
I wonder what the correlation is with people hating Villeneuve’s Chani and being fans of the 1984 Lynch film. Because if there is one, I’ll definitely start explaining this phenomena by saying that people just enjoy the submissive female fantasy that older depictions of Chani offer.
I saw someone comparing old Chani to Mikasa Ackerman as an analogy in the comments below, and that did make me laugh, because it’s true.
Or pehaps it was Frank Herbert giving a loving nod to his wife, who had to support a man stuck before his typing machine and having to rise children and run the house while her husband was seeking inspiration. If it is your definition of a submissive female...
No way bro said Mikasa Ackerman is “submissive” lmao
@@jameslough6329 Where did I say Mikasa was submissive?
She's not, tho.
Das ist ein super 🎥. Sollte man gesehen haben 😊
People who disagree with this take can never give compelling reasons as to why. Anyone who has read the books knows Chani just rolls with whatever Paul wants and adds no substantative nuance that movie Chani doesn't. And book Chani also does hilariously illogical things like give this stranger she just met advice on how to beat her good friend Jamis 😂
I don't want to repeat my argument but is it possible that Herbert gave a nod to the kind of love he knew in his own household, with his wife having to support him and run daily things while he was having his own "prescient" experience, i.e. writing a book?
She is such a vacuous character, sounds like not someone of the duneworld but a typical redditor.. i wouldn't say that's an improvement
Nah , i fucking hate chani in this movie.
Nonsense, this was another “Diisneyesk attempt to drive a woman wedge into the story , Herbert never considered this or”he” would have devised this gimmicky storyline !
Love this commentary. Villeneuve only plans to do 3 movies and I think his adaptation will veer further away from the Source material. For those familiar with Dune Messiah, not all of the Fremen end up on Paul's side of the Jihad, especially after the massacres & suffering. I'd like to see Chani be a leader / important person of this faction. I won't say more due to Spoilers.
I think the third movie will follow the source, only that through Chani Villeneuve can give the resistance an interesting face which is lacking in the book and also gives it a more tragic dimension.
@@voiceover2191 The resistance in the book are die hard conservative Fremen thinking the jihad has eroded their traditional culture and allying with the most manipulative factions of the universe. Do you think that Chani will co-conspire with the two main feminine figures of the resistance? That would be quite surprising if you follow the source.
@@stefbeg You are making the assumption that the resistance in the 3rd movie will be following the book in that. I rather the resistance will be shaped differently in the third movie with a different motive, that paul is spilling the lives of fremen for his cause, not theirs and destroying their culture, basically the same critique Chani already expressed amplified, we'll see I guess.
@@voiceover2191 Please excuse me, but I make no assumption, I was answering to you since you wrote "I think the third movie will follow the source". I find it confusing that you can say simultaneously that the third movie will follow the book and that the resistance will be completely different that the one from the book. Can you please make sense of these two contradictory affirmations? Or did I miss your point?
@@stefbeg You are absolutely right, that is a contradiction. I should have said that I think the 3rd movie will follow the book in that there will be a resistance, but I believe that they will change the motivation and the leadership of the resistance to Chani for dramatic effect. A hint to that is that in the first movie one vision Paul has is being stabbed by Chani.
Movie Chani trains and is intimate with the outsider while crying about the prophecy linked to the outsider. They created a hypocritical and two faced character. And I guess Paul sees that Chani will "come around" and she'll just return eventually so... then she won't even stand by her own convictions, so whats the point. Laughable. A two-faced histrionic flip-flopping character. I can't wait for Chani in Dune Part 3 to be railing about the dangers of the prophecy linked to her twin embryos. "These twins within me are how they'll enslave us!" Lol
NO
Cool! 👍🏻🚀
Zendaya couldn't quite pull off the seriousness of this role, in my opinion. There were parts where she was good, but I felt she didn't pull off the intense scenes. I can get past it because the movie was amazing otherwise.
youve clearly never read the books cause my god they did there own thing in part 2
The first point she made is that Dune Part 2 goes its own way and rewrites Chani’s character. She then goes on to contrast the two versions of the character…
I get that was Villeneuve's intent, but he cast a girl from Oakland who couldn't muster a scowl. Do you know how privileged a life you must have had in Oakland to not know how to make a mean face.
Chani is going to get a double abortion (she is pregnant with the twins at the end of Dune 2) in the deep desert.
The God-Emperor is going to be the Son of Irulan. There will not be a Ghanima.
Lol, I love speculative retroactive continuity.
I can see how people regard the changes as 'woke' but that doesn't seem to be the intent at all. Chani is meant to ground the audience and reassure them that it's not them going crazy by feeling disturbed by Paul's character arc. She feels it to. I think Frank Herbert would have loved this change and maybe even wish he thought of it himself.
I will make alot of enemies by saying this: The movies are better than the book.
It has interesting ideas but is poorly written.
I agree, so you're not alone.
Disagree
There is a simple reason why you like this version of Chani, because in the woke times of today you didn't like the idea of a male character taking all the glory in the stage and you wanted a boss woman in it, you didn't like the submissive role that Chani has in the books and like a classic feminist you couldn't accept it. Not everything has to "modernize" with todays idiotic woke standards.
Well said. They completely butchered the majority of the characters in this film.
You would fall for sooo many bene gesserit tricks
@@cj_offlin3 These dudes won’t last a single page in Heretics or Chapterhouse: Dune.
@@CuttingEdges we gotta send them to Salusa Secundus
Misogynist.
Woman run the Dune Universe...men are pawns
See Alia of the knife
Its the feminist version of channi
Nope i disagree.
Because you're addicted to being an 1ncel 🤷♂️
I agree and I found Zendaya a not very great actress, and also a bit unbelievable as a 70 pounds teenager great fighter.
But the 90 pound or whatever young man is? Do you think there aren't women right now who are trained in combat who couldn't kick your ass because there is evidence there are plenty... A sci fi where their culture is to fight and resistance shouldn't be difficult to wrap your mind around