If Unholy Heat and Fatal Push existed I think Splinter Twin would never have been banned. The fact that the premier 1 mana removal was lightning bolt and that didn’t kill Deceived Exarch made all the difference.
splinter twin was only powerful back then because blood moon exists, it was just a way off of a powerlevel of a deck, if you watch the very last one important tournament where Splinter Twin won, the card blood moon did all the work.
@@oORoOFLOo easy to say, amulet was the final opponent who got nailed in the coffin at the time. My argument is it did not matter about the quantity or quality of removal we had available. Blood Moon should have been banned, but now that we lived through it Splinter Twin should have been unbanned months ago.
GSZ?? I love that Reid's first thought is "I can't wait to tutor up Dryad Arbor in Jund" when everyone else is just licking their chops getting ready to sleeve up an even better version of Amulet. Never change, Reid ❤️
Plenty of cards that seem safe to be unbanned in Modern, and GSZ might be one of them, but there are a lot of cards ahead of it on my list, that's for sure. Too much redundancy in Titan for me.
@@michaeldegrave5905 off the top of my head I can name: Primetime Dryad of the Ilysian Grove Venerated Rotpreist Devoted Druid And hey! Maybe this is fine. But Amulet makes me the most weary of a GSZ reprint.
@@JohnFromAccounting that actually makes sense that you would want Summoner's Pact more in that deck. But who knows what else can happen. Maybe I'm wrong. The deck I'm looking at is the Rotpreist storm deck that can T2.
@@jetzine00 There are lots of cards to hate out storm, even if the new Rotpriest list is decent. Summoner's Pact works better because its free and you win the same turn.
I agree that a fair green creature deck that tutors up situational cards with green suns would be fun but imo the absolutely obvious home for green suns would be in amulet titan and I really don't want that deck to get better.
Yeah, but amulet seemingly gets an upgrade every set as it stands, and even two prospective upgrades in ONE. What I think is the titan needs to be banned sooner or later. We can't penalize green suns for the sins of the titan itself. EDIT: looking at mtggoldfish it's incredibly clear titan has a design space problem. Like half the deck has been printed in the PAST 5 YEARS which is utterly insane. Now mycosynth gardens + green sun's twilight are looking like permanent inclusions in the deck as well. The deck is clearly a problem.
Really? I had considered that for a moment but couldn't think of enough targets in Prime Time that I'd be absolutely terrified of. Giving Yawgmoth GSZ however sounds like a recipe for disaster. I already shit in fear when Yawgmoth taps out, I don't want to see them tap out for GSZ.
@nvvv_ I think amulet would end up cutting most, if not all, summoners pacts. I know it's good, T west for pact is amazing, especially in removal based match ups, but 1 pact is probably enough most of the time as a tutor target, that's if you even want it. T west is the worst land in the deck, by a mile
i'm an amulet main and i *really* don't want them to unban GSZ because either amulet or titan would have to go as well. the deck's broken enough already lol
O really was expecting you to quote Birthong Pod. Seems totally fine to modern's current power level a and fits the "based on creature" logic, with a combo angle, just as Twin.
Birthing Pod was very powerful 10 years ago, and only gets stronger as more creatures are printed. My understanding is that there are too many one-card combos where you can instantly win with Birthing Pod. (Involving untapping Pod and moving up the chain all in one turn).
Aaron Forsythe basically already said Pod is never coming back. Similar to their reasoning for banning Mox Opal, Pod just limits future design possibilities.
Didn't mention amulet titan with green sun's zenith. I think greens sun zenith would make titan so incredibly consistent 12 copies of titan and dryad of the Grove. Also dryad arbor turn 1 for more turn 1 plays. Arboreal grazer becomes even stronger. Easter access to azusa Gosh green sun would be so OP in amulet titan
@@MrKekej yes, but hate already exists in the format with the meta share. Additionally, artifact sweepers like brotherhoods end would be devastating to artifact lands.
I think that besides unbanning, Wizards should make a set aimed to tribes. Cats, dogs, monkeys, Merfolks, wizards, Dragons, Angels, elves. Something for everyone like Dominaria United.
@@Jantonio2912 Thats one thing i found weird moving from Yugioh to Magic. Yugioh is heavy focus on archetype will magic dont really promoted them heavy with the exception of commander
Hey Reid, thanks for the video! A quick piece of feed back for your editor: When you mention a card, can they put up the card on the screen? You sometimes rapid fire a lot of card names and people might not know what they are. Thanks!
The most powerful use of GSZ in the current Modern landscape would be in the Titan deck, which is already very powerful and would become oppressively consistent with the ability to find the cheap enabler creatures without the downside of Pact and have egregiously consistent access to Titan
Where Jitte is concerned, you touched on one of the reasons I would like it to stay banned. It's best against decks that are, by your definition, better for the format. Also, in terms of the metagame, the decks Jitte would most hurt are the ones already not doing very well, and it would do little to hamper the current top decks. Jitte's power level is not too high, but it would narrow the meta by making the less played decks even less playable. You know, maybe.
I completely agree with your takes on all 4 cards especially Twin, and Green Sun Zenith. The only one I am somewhat on the fence about would be the Jitte, but with where we are in modern as far as cards that are completely ok, I can get behind Jitte being legal more than I can leaving it on the no-no list. With the power creep getting increasingly worse with each set, I think these cards would do more to ADD to the pool of competitive decks rather than "taking over" the modern format the way Ragavan, and W6 have. If they continue to allow cards like these to be legal, then I see no reason at all why some of the cards on the banned list should not be reintroduced to the format. I would also add Birthing Pod to my list of cards I'd like to see unbanned as Pod is strong but still seems slow in the current meta to me, and I feel like you really have to build your entire deck around it to get the most value from it, and even THEN, you still have to play around a TON of great cards that have since been printed that can easily outpace it's power in certain matchups. With so much great removal now, along with a new "Force" cycle, and numerous cards that just cheat broken things into play on their own, I don't see why Pod should remain on the banned list. It would also be a flavorful card to have back in the format with the new Phyrexia set being released. Sometimes I just shake my head at the cards they are printing now and I'm afraid to even purchase playsets because I'm all the time wondering....."Well, when is THIS getting banned?" This doesn't happen too often but there are definitely some that are just glaringly bad. I would say Ragavan, W6, and Venerated Rotpriest would probably be my top 3 "How is this ok?" picks right now. Thanks for taking the time to speak on this.
I think the biggest scare of unbanning GSZ is not a resurgence of some creature toolbox -- that would probably be cool and fresh -- but titan getting a way to fetch any creature it needs seems too broken.
i think titan is one of those decks that just keeps getting better in a dangerous way, probably the strategy that has improved the most without much help from the MH sets, it might be time to ban primeval titan. if that's the case i think swapping titan for GSZ is a net positive for the format.
@@toolboxhero12 on top of that pact can be tutored with tolaria while gsz cant. I would probably try 1 and then cut it again because an extra tolaria does the same thing and can be gotten with map or titan
The difference between Kiki and Twin (from what i could gather from old events) is Kiki is a more combo deck, Twin is more of a control deck finisher. I'd want to see unbanned Birthing Pod. The card is super cool, but modern is too fast for the pod. Yeah, there are better creatures with powerful etbs now, but there are more tools to stop the Pod. People would play it nonstop for a month or two, then drop it after they realize it cannot compete with the horrors of MH1 and 2
I don’t think this is true at all. Yawgmoth combo already sees a lot of play and Pod with all the creatures it has access to these days wins the game a large % of the time
@@jahs3897 would it? Pod is pretty slow by modern standards. If it didn't had to tap to use is ability, it wouldn't be safe to unban. The pod thing is one per turn cycle, that's it. It also needs something to eat before spewing a creature, so theres that too
@@corriedebeer799 Working with 4 mana, so 4 pod activations. Pod the mana dork into Corridor Monitor, untap pod. Pod the Monitor into Renegade Rallier, get back the Monitor, untap Pod. Pod the Rallier into Felidar Guardian, blink the pod. Pod the Guadian into Kiki, go infinite with Kiki Corridor Monitor. There's also Extraction Specialist for redundancy with Renegade Rallier, and Restoration Angel for Felidar Guardian redundancy. Corridor Monitor is a messed up card though that kind of flew under the radar because Pod had already been banned. Makes the pod combo so much more lean than before, being able to chain starting from a 1 drop, instead of needing a 2 drop to chain into Exarch or Pestermite. Especially since you can immediately go for the Rallier or Specialist to get your split into two creatures, instead of needing to already have 2 creatures, or pod up to 5 for Karmic Guide to get the second creature, pod the second creature into Kiki, then copy Karmic Guide to get back the second creature and set up Kiki combo. The interaction still folds to any interaction, but it's a lot faster with a much smaller window to have any interaction.
I think twin would probably become the better UR tempo list over Murktide variants because of the flash nature of the win con and the ability to better utilize force of negation. I don't think it's as bad as some would say it is, I just think it'd be on par.
GSZ is a good choice. I'm not afraid of the combos becoming more oppressive, as similar effects already exist and doesn't make that big a splash. Twin could probably also be unbanned, though it would have to be watched since a lot of the interaction we've gotten to deal with twin can also be used to protect the combo. Risky, but I'm all for trying. But Jitte?! I really don't want a modern format where Fury and Jitte basicly nullifies decks playing X/1s and to some extent X/2s. They might not be played together, but that seems like a trully painful format for creature decks regardless. And I hope the mention of Punishing Fire was just as an example, as that being unbanned would just blank creature decks alltogether. I do think that a structured reevaluation of the whole ban list is in order though. A lot of cards were banned in a completly different environment and might not be that dangerous in this modern era. I'm currious if Dark Depths might be safe now for instants, with so much exile removal that kills Marit Lage for just 1 mana, and without Crop Rotation it should be much less consistent. Storm is also not really that big now, so maybe its safe to unban Seething Song. Rite of Flame is probably going to be to good, but maybe a new ritual can make the deck a bit more relevant again. I'm also really frustrated at WotC for not unbanning Bridge from Below after getting rid of Hogaak, since they and we always knew Hogaak was the real issue, and Bridge has never been a problem in the modern format (a lack of Dread Return and Cabal Therapy will probably keep it that way too). Edit: I'm also currious, as I didn't play modern back then: Blazing Shoal was banned because it was a turn 2 kill with infect, right? Turn 1 infect creature, turn 2 Blazing shoal, discarding Progenitus. Infect today can already kill on turn 2, and they don't need to play dead draws like Progenitus or Blazing Shoal without a pitch card. I'd rather play Scale up and Mutagenic Growths as they funtion well on their own while Progenitus/Shoal only work if you have them both. Unless there's some other deck that used Blazing Shoal, I think it's perfectly safe to unban.
Removal is almost never the problem. Punishing Fire wasn't. It wasn't oppressively good when it got banned, and it's way weaker now compared to the removal options we have today.
@@JohnFromAccounting modern have a lot of wasteland effects, we don't need wasteland specifically. It might mean that Ghost Quarter and other land interactions gets better, and taxes by extention, but that's not to awful. Also, blood moon.
I think that DRS can be unbanned in the current meta of modern. I believe people are judging the card for modern based on its performance in legacy which is not fair (just look at when JTMS was unbanned and the fact W&6 is still available to modern but not legacy). The P/T matches up against the best 1 drop in modern (ragavan), it is at odds with W&6. It is easily picked off by the collateral dmg from fury. It is hate against so many GY strategies like Breach and dilerium based decks. And the original reason why it was banned (BG being oppressive in the format) is not an issue anymore. I know "the internet" has a bias against it being unbanned, but I would love an objective analysis from you Reid on why it would (or not) be a good idea to unban DRS.
@@taylorbates4742 I do not agree with your assertion. Not only have the two never been legal in the same format at the same time, it is also true that Ragavan got banned in Legacy faster than DRS was. Perhaps you can provide some arguments on such an absolute statement?
@Martin de Roo DRS doesn't need to attack to be a relevant creature, and it isn't an X/1, so it doesn't die to W&6. Ragavan was banned in Legacy simply because it could steal your opponents spells. Unlike Modern, Legacy has a load more of great 0-1 mana spells that would be relevant hits off of Ragavan. DRS is immediately impactful the turn you can untap with it because it is so versatile in what it does. It doesn't require you to attack, and it isn't Legendary.
DRS has never been a problem in any format. After getting banned in modern, degenerate graveyard decks got too strong. In legacy, banning DRS killed a lot of fair decks and Delver was still the best deck anyway. It should be legal.
After playing magics for 24 years, I think the following cards would be safe to come off the ban list: Artifact lands, Jitte, splinter twin, and hyper genesis. Chrome mox, artifact lands, and jitte were banned back when extended became modern. Chrome mox was an issue back in mirrodin standard. Having untapped mono colored artifact lands isn’t going to wreck the format like it did before chrome mox was banned. MH2 printed new artifact lands that come into play tapped and still isn’t very viable for affinity decks. Jitte requires the creature that’s equipping it to deal combat damage prior to getting counters in n it or moved onto it by another action. Again, this card is pretty safe to be unbanned. Splinter twin is mixed emotions for how long it ruled the proverbial roost, I never thought the day I’d see a reprint of force of will into the format (force of negation). FoN will be used in the twin deck if it is allowed to be unbanned. But with scam having first turn grief, does it matter? Hypergensis could also go either way, living end is in the format & would require considerable deck construction to make it viable. Modern horizons has completely changed the format of modern, whether it’s better or worse is subject to interpretation. But I wholeheartedly believe the banned list needs to be revisited & items given a chance. Kannister & Mengu did a few play tests on MTGO with a few cards that were unbanned vs current tier 1 decks & the results were lackluster to say the least.
I agree that the ban list needs to be revisited. Artifact lands and Jitte aren't a large upgrade because there are downsides to running those cards that are fairly obvious. Splinter Twin is extremely vulnerable to disruption and while it might be playable it is nowhere near bannable.
Honestly, I'd like to see the original artifact lands unbanned to boost Affinity from the fringe deck it currently is to a mainstay once again in the metagame. My fear with that, however, is that the artifact lands would help Hammertime just as much.
Lol Green Sun's Zenith. Every time I read that card I just smile. tbh I would love to be able to play this in modern. 😁 At first my instinct is "this is too good". However this is a solitude, force of negation and heavy removal format where creature based combo decks have become weak. So it might be ok. Rotpriest is a worry haha. But I'm in.
I might have missed it but I think Primeval Titan was left out of this GSZ discussion. I wouldn't want to see that deck get more redundancy than it already has.
@@MrPeteJahn I have had plenty of game 1's where having access to removal would be really really strong and if you can just tutor a jitte that solves that problem in most cases
Awesome job Reid 👍🏽 My unpopular vote goes to: Preordain. Let me make my case, I think most of the decks that people would think this would get slotted into would rather run other cantrips for modern. Control would rather run “Opt” for end-step interaction, Murktide would rather run “Consider” for potential yard pitching, for the most part however, cantrips are not really something that see play in modern nowadays, the highest S-rank decks have no interest in running them (Rakdos Mid, Burn, Hammetime, Footfalls, Creativity, Yawgmoth), these decks don’t run any mainboard deck manipulation spells, I honestly doubt they plan to warp themselves around Preordain. Disclaimer: I am in no way suggesting the card is not powerful, but it’s definitely not the powerhouse it once was, I can see why something like this could be bannable in modern’s early days, I can no longer see that reason when looking at the current meta nor do I anticipate that the meta warps around this one card. People had a similar worry with “Jace, The Mind Sculptor” getting unbanned and low and behold “Bloodbraid Elf” saw more play from its unbanning than the boogeyman did.
Preordain is several steps down from Ponder. Ponder would homogenise blue decks because they would auto include 4 copies, but Preordain isn't something that every blue deck wants to play.
Deathrite shaman could potentially be unbanned. Wrenn and six do something very similar, and it allows some interaction and strengthens fair decks in a way that other unbans would do.
Do you want decks that play Ragavan and W6 to also play DRS? Because that's the first thing that happens. Imagine how many decks would get pushed out of viability just because monkey/W6 decks now have DRS as well
@@MikeAsbestos I'm not entirely sure they'd add deathrite, mostly because they currently don't typically run black or green and I don't think there's enough gained by adding drs to justify making the mana base worse. It's a reasonable concern, grixis and Temur Murktide do sound like something that'd be tested, but I think midrange would want drs more than Murktide does
Deathrite is just a strict upgrade to Ragavan and would be the premier 1 drop of the format. Ragavan has to actually hit your opponent to be useful. Deathrite is super, super versatile and doesn't even have to attack.
@@taylorbates4742 Nope. There is some deck restrictions for DRS. He is a very fair card and I never thought he deserved a ban. Ragavan is different because he requires no investment after you cast him, and then gets lots of value each turn for nothing.
Oh yeah I've been saying that about Jitte a while! It feels messed up when you're able to control the board with it... but we live in a world where your opponent can double thoughtseize you and have a 3/2 menace on the board on turn 1, and you can't really do anything about it on the receiving side. LOL. So I think Jitte, Splinter Twin, and Green Sun's Zenith are all fair game in Modern at the moment. Your vids are the best dude!
If your gameplan is to win with Jitte, you probably have a tier 3 deck. There are much better cards to be playing. Hammer can win on turn 2 or turn 3, which is the turn that Jitte enters the field.
What if by unbanning Splinter Twin, Deceiver Exarch was banned? Would this make the deck a little fairer? - It reduces the odds of having the combo naturally in the opening 7 (but it could still happen like any other combo deck); - Forces the player to search for the missing combo piece (blue has no shortage of cantrips) so as to not always leave untapped mana; - It doesn't hinder other creature based decks with a blocker with 4 of resistance;
In order to specifically gives Elves the boost while not effecting too many other decks, what about Glimpse of Nature? Elves is already decimated thanks to Fury, Unholy Heat, Plague Engineer, Solitude, and more. I don't think it will be too strong for a fragile deck. And Elves is really the only deck that can consistantly use it well.
Not talking about titan when discussing green sun seems insane to me. It get you every creature in the deck and is very good at doing so. It would probably push titan way to far
Titan already plays summoners pact which it can tutor with tolaria west. So im not sure if I would even play 1 gsz. Also ramping with dryad arbor is not as strong in titan since you already play lots of ramp effects and usually extra land drops with amulets generate more mana than mana dorks
@@drake11011 what i am saying is that pact is a bad card compered to green sun. titan often plays pact fairly to get a drayed into play now (the 2/4 not arbor) and loses the next turn for it. this would make titan way more consistant.
In my book completely different cards. Then you play your Titan for 7 or your Ilysian for 4 or your Grazer for 2. Don't know if it would even impact a lot more than it already does
I don't think there's every been a time in Modern's history that Jitte needed to be banned. It's always been useless against half the decks in the format, and it's really slow against the creature decks. 4 mana only to get blown out by bolt on the equip target? Doesn't sound broken to me. That said, like Reid said, it's best against the decks you want to be good in the format, and I'd argue that you gain almost nothing from unbanning unless you have some goal to make the banlist as small as possible. I don't think it makes gameplay better.
Blazing shoal, preordain, twin, GSZ, DRS, all can be unbanned safely. It's sad wizards doesn't take the risk, just claiming there's no benefit bc it either changes the format too much or doesn't affect so why bother. We want these cards
Tutors in general are the strongest thing you can do in MTG. When you want to find something cool most other ppl with choose whatever wins them the game on the spot like a craterhoof behemoth or a or a protean hulk to go infinite. Its hard to balance a card that wins you the game on the spot 95% of the time when its played even if you are in that 5% who probably dont abuse it
Whats funny is ive been begging for twin and jitte to come back... I think the format is way too fast and powerful that they can come off the list and shake things up a bit... and quite possibly not even be good enough anymore. Solitude was a perfect example of a way to interact w twin and even jitte. Great video.
I think Reid put it very well around the 7/8 minute mark - there have been so many great and powerful cards printed into the format since some of these cards have been banned, if these cards were to be unbanned, would it impact the format as much as they did when they first were introduced?
These are absolutely perfect choices, it's long past time that these powerful cards get to see the light of day. The environments that made them problematic are long past.
Now since there are so many different ways to attack the graveyard (I know they unbanned then had to re-ban this card a while ago), but I would be curious to see golgari grave troll again in this format. It does seem that Wizards does not like or enjoy having a powerful dredge deck in the modern format, but I would find it very interesting to see post MH2
I used to think splinter twin would be able to be unbanned until MH2 came out and force of negation was printed. Now I feel like it can never be unbanned. Punishing fire might honestly be fine now. Green suns probably no. Even the floor of Amulet playing it as summoners pact 5-8 seems oppressive. Jitte. Probably debatable for sure.
totally agree about Jitte. Modern seems to be defined by DRC and Ragavan right now, just low curve red creatures, so a Jitte could really mix up the monopoly those creatures hold. I think twin is a little more suspect. Best deck in modern right now, hands down, is U/R murktide. Red and blue are in a good place, not sure they need a further tool. Red based decks with underworld breach are already flirting this line between being both tempo and combo, seems like a twin package combined with the U/R Murktide shell might be too powerful.
Green sun's zenith is almost surely too strong especially as it boosts amulet titan a ton. Jitte would be perfectly fine, doubt it would see much play. Blazing shoal is probably not too strong but it just goes in a stupid deck so there is zero reason to ever unban that. Splinter twin would be great to come off as it's a fun deck that almost surely isn't too strong (just so much 0 and 1 mana answers now) that if it sees play also keeps unfun uninteractive decks in check. I think it wouldn't see much play actually as ragavan/murktide just does it better but it would be cool to see. Punishing fire is tough to call, i think it would be fine to unban as there is plenty strong lategame engines already anyway. Just a bit worried how good it would be and easy to slot in decks that would otherwise have no lategame. And it does beat up on the 'fun' decks so probably best to keep on.
GSZ: Nah, I think Amulet Titan just goes more crazy with this and doesn’t do enough for any other deck archetype to benefit the format. Jitte: YES. I think this would be just fine. I think this could open the door to some forms of control list with SFM and be good in the format. Being able to pump up the equipped creature for beneficial blocking/attacking, being able to kill Ragavan, and incidental life gain are amazing things to feature in the format that aren’t broken. Punishing Fire: I /think/ this would be fine but I’m not too sure. I don’t think it encourages anything good. I feel like this is a card that kinda does nothing until it does something too powerful and gets axed again. But I could be wrong. Splinter Twin: This is just fine in the current meta. Modern is very fast currently and Splinter Twin doesn’t force the current meta to speed up to beat it. Not just that, but we have some amazing removal in the format now such as Fatal Push and Unholy Heat to answer it, as well as Solitude, Dress Down, and other cards. Blazing Shoal: I don’t think a single deck that used to run this card would now. I think the biggest concern for it would be infect, and infect would rather stick to the UG shell with Scale Ups and Mights and Vines and Blossoming Defenses. Shoal doesn’t bring anything to the format to fear.
Honest question (from someone who doesn't know that much about Modern) - is Murktide Regent just a stronger win con for UR tempo than Splinter Twin would be? Sure, it is way easier to stop Murktide, but the dragon being a single card that is SO big and can be played for less mana than Twin for countermagic protection purposes... if I was playing that kind of gameplan, would I really want to have to play the Twin pieces and put together the combo when this one card seems so perfect?
I doubt twin would see much play for the same reason. Its a 2 card combo that is quite easy to interrupt. When it was popular the only maindeck interaction commonly played was at least 2 mana. Now there are a ton of 0 and 1 mana answers commonly played. Secondly much stronger alternative finishers such as murktide exist so yes i doubt it would see much play. People would certainly try in droves but i think the deck wouldn't have much success.
i would unban the og artifact lands. Of course they are super powerful and sinergistic in the right shell, but i think there is cap on their power level because mox opal is banned, and also there is a huge potential downside to playing an affinity deck with these lands if it becomes popular, because there are so many different cards to punish it. The fact that you can get your lands blown up repeatedily for 1 mana is punishment enough to deter a lot of people from playing these lands, not mention running into a maindeck karn the great creator or sideboard collector ouphe which shuts down your entire deck.
I think my biggest issue with all of these (with the exception of maybe P-fire) is that they are auto-includes in decks that already have a comfortable amount of share in the meta. Yes, GSZ would make Devoted Druid a thing again, but it would also be a snap include in Amulet Titan. Jitte would make D&T better at policing the format, but it would also give Hammer Time another out and option. Twin was always "I'm playing the best UR deck but I also have 8-slots for an I win" and I think Murktide and maybe even Grixis Shadow just go for that. These don't promote diversity in the format, they would be Wizards functionally picking a horse to dominate Modern. I hear a lot of people talking about how removal has gotten better, but so has the countermagic to protect Twin. Twin players didn't have to worry about Heat, Push, or Solitude, but they also couldn't protect themselves with Charm, Force, and Counterspell.
I'd like to throw out Deathrite Shaman on the unban list with the high density of powerful 1 drop creatures, free my favorite MTG card. I understand it's probably too good but I'm biased with loving my beloved Jund deck.
One of the biggest homes for green sun's zenith forgot to mention is titan, which gets so much more consistent. Idk if it's safe making one of the most broken decks in modern even more broken
I don't think splinter twin is healthy in a format where blue red is already the most dominant strategy. Honestly, i prefer to see new cards in play with unbans. Something that punishing fire could do and find game in some strategies with recursive actions.. GSZ imo is an addition too strong for amulet titan and scapeshift.
while Blue red is a very strong and prominent part of the meta i think a number of cards that hold up what we presently know to be a trademark of UR wouldn't necessarily work well with twin. Expressive iteration for starters really plays against what Twin use to do, holding up remands and bolts. Once EI is out, idk how many baubles you play, without high numbers of bauble how many DRC do you play. i think ragavan is probably still an auto include but the rest of the decks is probably still a snapcaster counter spell deck.
@@masondyer7604 EI is great card on its own. You don’t need to build around it. On top of that twin can just play like a control deck and continue to make land drops casting EI on turn 4 or 5. Might not play 4 but it’s still closet thing to dig in the format. You also don’t need to turn it into a bad Murktide deck
@@ryanbob8493 Problem is that GSZ can not just grab titan. Sometimes you are missing cards like dryad or azusa and you can't really grab those with pact. With GSZ turn 2 dryad is way to consistent imo
Yeah, every one pointed this out already but I'm really not sure Green Sun's Zenith and Primeval Titan can co-exist in Modern. Maybe they can, but I doubt Wizards is willing to take that chance.
The problem with splinter twin combos is that it’s not fun when your opponent has the answer at the end of the combo eg Cryptic Command or Settle the Wreckage. Everyone is forced to either wait or say in the chat that they have the answer, which of course could be a lie
Pretty sure unbanning Twin is a wayyy less spicy / controversial take than unbanning Jitte. More people than not these days seem to want Twin unbanned. What on earth is the upside to unbanning Jitte? Even Reid didn't actually give any reason why you would WANT to unban it.
would like to see GSZ and Jitte. Jitte should be fine now. Trouble with GSZ is it means they could never print a new green creature part of a 2-card combo without wrecking Modern. Even now, Yawgmoth would get more consistent for the undyings. I don't miss Twin...what a boring shameless combo format it made. Shoal should be ok...3-card and interactable.
I quit playing modern when they banned splinter twin. All my top 8’s at scg modern events were with Tarmo-twin. Still love watching Reid though especially when he pulls out jund
My faeries list has wanted umezawa's jitte to be unbanned for ages, so I have bias, but removal for jitte is arriving in abundance, so I think it would be a fun challenge to engage with. I agree with each of your picks and would love to see how modern evolves with those returning to the format.
How many copies and what would you cut? I played dimir faes for a real long time, and in the end the format just beat it in every way. Not to mention how tight the card margins are split between removal/counter/possible discard etc .. where would you fit it in?
@@sherrix6881 I would play 2-3 honestly. And there isn't a stock faeries list anymore, everyone in the faeries discord is trying their own thing based on how they gain advantage best
Honestly, I would like to see GSZ and the artifact lands come off the ban list. My issue with Jitte is that with that and wrenn and six x/1 creatures might be punished a bit too hard, unsure. As for twin, I think it's worth a shot. Might make a super interesting elementals deck with a combo finish.
@@TNCombatMedic Sure, its entirely possible that Jitte is too slow to make a large impact, but it does heavily punish decks that try to snowball a board, and we already have stuff like Wrenn and Six/Fury/Plague engineer in the format that really heavily punish these sorts of decks already. I just worry that if we keep adding these sorts of powerful effects in modern it will make decks like Merfolk almost unplayable. Wrenn was largely banned from legacy because it was pushing decks like elves out of the format.
They never seem to ban counter spells and decks that can win on turn one. By me the same decks top 8 all the time. Unbanning many of the cards on the list would be great and encourage new builds. WotC keeps pushing the power level of cards and some of these older cards are just not as good as the new ones anyways. I think most people that complain about some of these cards worry about the value of the cards they have now going down and having to rebuild in a meta shift.
Do you think Birthing Pod would still be oppressive in today's Modern? I feel like the same Creatures Toolbox combos still exist and operate at such speed these days that they might not care for the Pod anymore. Like, they just cast Eladamri's Call to find their pieces or Chord of Calling in their opponent's end step, and they have one-off Pod activations available (Eldritch Evolution) and they don't need a repeatable way to do the same thing. On the other hand, there might be midrange decks that would use Pod for value rather than to combo off.
Pod is tricky. You are trading speed for resiliency/consistency. Speed matters more now than it used to. But the scary thing now is that creatures are just so much better than they used to be. A Modern Pod deck would probably just be abusing incarnations, but who knows what else they could print?
but jitte unbanned kills it haha, and splinter twin i think the formar cand deal with it, so unban those 3 i guess? good video! and also unban deathrite shaman, the format also can deal with it!
I think the first three cards are way too powerful to put back into modern. Splinter Twin might take over UR Murktides spot in the metagame. It feels like a combo finish to a U/R Control shell is better than a midrange finish, but people haven't played breach Emrakul UR decks for a while either so Murktide might just stay good. I think Green Sun's Zenith would bring back Creatures Toolbox as an oppressive deck in the format. As for the other two, they're cheap flexible card advantage engines. I remember when people were talking about unbanning Stoneforge, Bloodbraid, and Jace. Stoneforge Mystic is in the best combo deck in the format, and it's easy to slot into a modern deck because it's powerful and cheap. The other two cost four mana, but are powerful so they see fringe play. The additional problem with Jitte and Twin is that the first definitely buffs one of the best decks, Hammer Time, and the second one could just replace the best deck in the format, UR Murktide. That doesn't help diversify the format.
I thought one of the big downsides for GSZ not mentioned by Reid is that it would cause green decks to homogenize in a way they all play it. It just adds so much consistency to any deck that can run it.
If Unholy Heat and Fatal Push existed I think Splinter Twin would never have been banned. The fact that the premier 1 mana removal was lightning bolt and that didn’t kill Deceived Exarch made all the difference.
splinter twin was only powerful back then because blood moon exists, it was just a way off of a powerlevel of a deck, if you watch the very last one important tournament where Splinter Twin won, the card blood moon did all the work.
Good maybe people start running less degenerate manabases. Is it that hard to run a few basics?
@@oORoOFLOo easy to say, amulet was the final opponent who got nailed in the coffin at the time. My argument is it did not matter about the quantity or quality of removal we had available. Blood Moon should have been banned, but now that we lived through it Splinter Twin should have been unbanned months ago.
Not to mention Boseiju- uncounterable combo breaker
What about path to exile?
GSZ?? I love that Reid's first thought is "I can't wait to tutor up Dryad Arbor in Jund" when everyone else is just licking their chops getting ready to sleeve up an even better version of Amulet.
Never change, Reid ❤️
Plenty of cards that seem safe to be unbanned in Modern, and GSZ might be one of them, but there are a lot of cards ahead of it on my list, that's for sure. Too much redundancy in Titan for me.
@@michaeldegrave5905 off the top of my head I can name:
Primetime
Dryad of the Ilysian Grove
Venerated Rotpreist
Devoted Druid
And hey! Maybe this is fine. But Amulet makes me the most weary of a GSZ reprint.
Titan has better tutors than GSZ.
@@JohnFromAccounting that actually makes sense that you would want Summoner's Pact more in that deck. But who knows what else can happen. Maybe I'm wrong. The deck I'm looking at is the Rotpreist storm deck that can T2.
@@jetzine00 There are lots of cards to hate out storm, even if the new Rotpriest list is decent. Summoner's Pact works better because its free and you win the same turn.
I agree that a fair green creature deck that tutors up situational cards with green suns would be fun but imo the absolutely obvious home for green suns would be in amulet titan and I really don't want that deck to get better.
Yeah, but amulet seemingly gets an upgrade every set as it stands, and even two prospective upgrades in ONE. What I think is the titan needs to be banned sooner or later. We can't penalize green suns for the sins of the titan itself.
EDIT: looking at mtggoldfish it's incredibly clear titan has a design space problem. Like half the deck has been printed in the PAST 5 YEARS which is utterly insane. Now mycosynth gardens + green sun's twilight are looking like permanent inclusions in the deck as well. The deck is clearly a problem.
Really? I had considered that for a moment but couldn't think of enough targets in Prime Time that I'd be absolutely terrified of. Giving Yawgmoth GSZ however sounds like a recipe for disaster. I already shit in fear when Yawgmoth taps out, I don't want to see them tap out for GSZ.
@nvvv_ I think amulet would end up cutting most, if not all, summoners pacts.
I know it's good, T west for pact is amazing, especially in removal based match ups, but 1 pact is probably enough most of the time as a tutor target, that's if you even want it. T west is the worst land in the deck, by a mile
i'm an amulet main and i *really* don't want them to unban GSZ because either amulet or titan would have to go as well. the deck's broken enough already lol
Love the video!
I would support more non-gameplay Reid videos in the future if he is insterested in making more :)
On a different topic, next Modern Horizons I would love to see Dack Fayden, Kaya, Ghost Assassin and Baleful Strix make their way into the format
O really was expecting you to quote Birthong Pod. Seems totally fine to modern's current power level a and fits the "based on creature" logic, with a combo angle, just as Twin.
Birthing Pod was very powerful 10 years ago, and only gets stronger as more creatures are printed. My understanding is that there are too many one-card combos where you can instantly win with Birthing Pod. (Involving untapping Pod and moving up the chain all in one turn).
Aaron Forsythe basically already said Pod is never coming back. Similar to their reasoning for banning Mox Opal, Pod just limits future design possibilities.
If pod's never coming back to modern, then neither am I lmao
Birthing Pod is busted worse than when it was banned.
It wouldn't be a Reid video without random background noise
Didn't mention amulet titan with green sun's zenith.
I think greens sun zenith would make titan so incredibly consistent 12 copies of titan and dryad of the Grove. Also dryad arbor turn 1 for more turn 1 plays. Arboreal grazer becomes even stronger.
Easter access to azusa
Gosh green sun would be so OP in amulet titan
GSZ is win more for Titan. Once they get the first Titan, they basically win. If Titan is so much of a problem, just ban amulet.
the artifact lands honestly feel like a relic of an era. i dont think they deserve the ban now that mox opal is gone.
Wouldnt that make construct tokens really good?
@@MrKekej yes, but hate already exists in the format with the meta share. Additionally, artifact sweepers like brotherhoods end would be devastating to artifact lands.
I think that besides unbanning, Wizards should make a set aimed to tribes.
Cats, dogs, monkeys, Merfolks, wizards, Dragons, Angels, elves.
Something for everyone like Dominaria United.
@@Jantonio2912 Thats one thing i found weird moving from Yugioh to Magic. Yugioh is heavy focus on archetype will magic dont really promoted them heavy with the exception of commander
Artifact lands barely make artifact decks better. They already have artifact lands and they don't do anything.
Hey Reid, thanks for the video! A quick piece of feed back for your editor: When you mention a card, can they put up the card on the screen? You sometimes rapid fire a lot of card names and people might not know what they are. Thanks!
The most powerful use of GSZ in the current Modern landscape would be in the Titan deck, which is already very powerful and would become oppressively consistent with the ability to find the cheap enabler creatures without the downside of Pact and have egregiously consistent access to Titan
Also yawgmoth
@@Djewell314 You cant get yawgmoth with gsz
Talking about gsz and skipping amulet titan or valakut titan seems like an oversight.
If we're lucky primetime will be banned soon enough so that won't be a problem lmao
How much would this card really help them at this point? They already have ways to quickly search up what they need. Talk of bans disgusts me.
Amulet is gona get banned becauae of myco gardens anyways LMAOOOOO
Yeah I kept waiting for him to bring it up lmao
@darkinsanity98473 "darkinsanity" damn bro you sound like an edgy one ☠️☠️☠️
Where Jitte is concerned, you touched on one of the reasons I would like it to stay banned. It's best against decks that are, by your definition, better for the format. Also, in terms of the metagame, the decks Jitte would most hurt are the ones already not doing very well, and it would do little to hamper the current top decks. Jitte's power level is not too high, but it would narrow the meta by making the less played decks even less playable. You know, maybe.
Nobody would play it.
My favorite sideboard card against Splinter Twin combo is Rakdos Charm 😏
I completely agree with your takes on all 4 cards especially Twin, and Green Sun Zenith. The only one I am somewhat on the fence about would be the Jitte, but with where we are in modern as far as cards that are completely ok, I can get behind Jitte being legal more than I can leaving it on the no-no list. With the power creep getting increasingly worse with each set, I think these cards would do more to ADD to the pool of competitive decks rather than "taking over" the modern format the way Ragavan, and W6 have. If they continue to allow cards like these to be legal, then I see no reason at all why some of the cards on the banned list should not be reintroduced to the format. I would also add Birthing Pod to my list of cards I'd like to see unbanned as Pod is strong but still seems slow in the current meta to me, and I feel like you really have to build your entire deck around it to get the most value from it, and even THEN, you still have to play around a TON of great cards that have since been printed that can easily outpace it's power in certain matchups. With so much great removal now, along with a new "Force" cycle, and numerous cards that just cheat broken things into play on their own, I don't see why Pod should remain on the banned list. It would also be a flavorful card to have back in the format with the new Phyrexia set being released. Sometimes I just shake my head at the cards they are printing now and I'm afraid to even purchase playsets because I'm all the time wondering....."Well, when is THIS getting banned?" This doesn't happen too often but there are definitely some that are just glaringly bad. I would say Ragavan, W6, and Venerated Rotpriest would probably be my top 3 "How is this ok?" picks right now. Thanks for taking the time to speak on this.
Jitte isnt even good enough for legacy anymore
I think the biggest scare of unbanning GSZ is not a resurgence of some creature toolbox -- that would probably be cool and fresh -- but titan getting a way to fetch any creature it needs seems too broken.
i think titan is one of those decks that just keeps getting better in a dangerous way, probably the strategy that has improved the most without much help from the MH sets, it might be time to ban primeval titan. if that's the case i think swapping titan for GSZ is a net positive for the format.
Gsz is literally just the best green creature outright. There's no reason not to have it if you need a green creature out.
You all Must of forgot about eladamiri call, summoners pact, and green finale is already in the format
@@jtyree0226 but those are all way worse than GSZ. Especially, as reid said, gsz can fetch Arbor, and any of those for arbor is bad.
@@toolboxhero12 on top of that pact can be tutored with tolaria while gsz cant. I would probably try 1 and then cut it again because an extra tolaria does the same thing and can be gotten with map or titan
Deathrite shaman. There’s so much removal it would never last.
The difference between Kiki and Twin (from what i could gather from old events) is Kiki is a more combo deck, Twin is more of a control deck finisher.
I'd want to see unbanned Birthing Pod. The card is super cool, but modern is too fast for the pod. Yeah, there are better creatures with powerful etbs now, but there are more tools to stop the Pod.
People would play it nonstop for a month or two, then drop it after they realize it cannot compete with the horrors of MH1 and 2
I don’t think this is true at all. Yawgmoth combo already sees a lot of play and Pod with all the creatures it has access to these days wins the game a large % of the time
@@jahs3897 would it? Pod is pretty slow by modern standards. If it didn't had to tap to use is ability, it wouldn't be safe to unban. The pod thing is one per turn cycle, that's it. It also needs something to eat before spewing a creature, so theres that too
@@rendevoir4736 Pod turn 2 off of a mana dork goes infinite turn 3, which is pretty scary, but I'm not sure it's unbeatable in current modern.
@@michaeldegrave5905 how does pod go infinite?
@@corriedebeer799 Working with 4 mana, so 4 pod activations. Pod the mana dork into Corridor Monitor, untap pod. Pod the Monitor into Renegade Rallier, get back the Monitor, untap Pod. Pod the Rallier into Felidar Guardian, blink the pod. Pod the Guadian into Kiki, go infinite with Kiki Corridor Monitor.
There's also Extraction Specialist for redundancy with Renegade Rallier, and Restoration Angel for Felidar Guardian redundancy. Corridor Monitor is a messed up card though that kind of flew under the radar because Pod had already been banned. Makes the pod combo so much more lean than before, being able to chain starting from a 1 drop, instead of needing a 2 drop to chain into Exarch or Pestermite. Especially since you can immediately go for the Rallier or Specialist to get your split into two creatures, instead of needing to already have 2 creatures, or pod up to 5 for Karmic Guide to get the second creature, pod the second creature into Kiki, then copy Karmic Guide to get back the second creature and set up Kiki combo. The interaction still folds to any interaction, but it's a lot faster with a much smaller window to have any interaction.
I think twin would probably become the better UR tempo list over Murktide variants because of the flash nature of the win con and the ability to better utilize force of negation. I don't think it's as bad as some would say it is, I just think it'd be on par.
GSZ is a good choice. I'm not afraid of the combos becoming more oppressive, as similar effects already exist and doesn't make that big a splash. Twin could probably also be unbanned, though it would have to be watched since a lot of the interaction we've gotten to deal with twin can also be used to protect the combo. Risky, but I'm all for trying. But Jitte?! I really don't want a modern format where Fury and Jitte basicly nullifies decks playing X/1s and to some extent X/2s. They might not be played together, but that seems like a trully painful format for creature decks regardless. And I hope the mention of Punishing Fire was just as an example, as that being unbanned would just blank creature decks alltogether.
I do think that a structured reevaluation of the whole ban list is in order though. A lot of cards were banned in a completly different environment and might not be that dangerous in this modern era. I'm currious if Dark Depths might be safe now for instants, with so much exile removal that kills Marit Lage for just 1 mana, and without Crop Rotation it should be much less consistent. Storm is also not really that big now, so maybe its safe to unban Seething Song. Rite of Flame is probably going to be to good, but maybe a new ritual can make the deck a bit more relevant again. I'm also really frustrated at WotC for not unbanning Bridge from Below after getting rid of Hogaak, since they and we always knew Hogaak was the real issue, and Bridge has never been a problem in the modern format (a lack of Dread Return and Cabal Therapy will probably keep it that way too).
Edit: I'm also currious, as I didn't play modern back then: Blazing Shoal was banned because it was a turn 2 kill with infect, right? Turn 1 infect creature, turn 2 Blazing shoal, discarding Progenitus. Infect today can already kill on turn 2, and they don't need to play dead draws like Progenitus or Blazing Shoal without a pitch card. I'd rather play Scale up and Mutagenic Growths as they funtion well on their own while Progenitus/Shoal only work if you have them both. Unless there's some other deck that used Blazing Shoal, I think it's perfectly safe to unban.
Dark Depths can't be legal without Wasteland.
Jitte is not a good Stoneforge target. Hasn't been half decent in 10 years. Very safe unban.
Removal is almost never the problem. Punishing Fire wasn't. It wasn't oppressively good when it got banned, and it's way weaker now compared to the removal options we have today.
@@JohnFromAccounting modern have a lot of wasteland effects, we don't need wasteland specifically. It might mean that Ghost Quarter and other land interactions gets better, and taxes by extention, but that's not to awful. Also, blood moon.
I think that DRS can be unbanned in the current meta of modern. I believe people are judging the card for modern based on its performance in legacy which is not fair (just look at when JTMS was unbanned and the fact W&6 is still available to modern but not legacy). The P/T matches up against the best 1 drop in modern (ragavan), it is at odds with W&6. It is easily picked off by the collateral dmg from fury. It is hate against so many GY strategies like Breach and dilerium based decks. And the original reason why it was banned (BG being oppressive in the format) is not an issue anymore. I know "the internet" has a bias against it being unbanned, but I would love an objective analysis from you Reid on why it would (or not) be a good idea to unban DRS.
It would be perfect right now
DRS is much, much better than Ragavan.
@@taylorbates4742 I do not agree with your assertion. Not only have the two never been legal in the same format at the same time, it is also true that Ragavan got banned in Legacy faster than DRS was. Perhaps you can provide some arguments on such an absolute statement?
@Martin de Roo DRS doesn't need to attack to be a relevant creature, and it isn't an X/1, so it doesn't die to W&6. Ragavan was banned in Legacy simply because it could steal your opponents spells. Unlike Modern, Legacy has a load more of great 0-1 mana spells that would be relevant hits off of Ragavan. DRS is immediately impactful the turn you can untap with it because it is so versatile in what it does. It doesn't require you to attack, and it isn't Legendary.
DRS has never been a problem in any format. After getting banned in modern, degenerate graveyard decks got too strong. In legacy, banning DRS killed a lot of fair decks and Delver was still the best deck anyway. It should be legal.
After playing magics for 24 years, I think the following cards would be safe to come off the ban list:
Artifact lands, Jitte, splinter twin, and hyper genesis.
Chrome mox, artifact lands, and jitte were banned back when extended became modern.
Chrome mox was an issue back in mirrodin standard.
Having untapped mono colored artifact lands isn’t going to wreck the format like it did before chrome mox was banned.
MH2 printed new artifact lands that come into play tapped and still isn’t very viable for affinity decks.
Jitte requires the creature that’s equipping it to deal combat damage prior to getting counters in n it or moved onto it by another action. Again, this card is pretty safe to be unbanned.
Splinter twin is mixed emotions for how long it ruled the proverbial roost, I never thought the day I’d see a reprint of force of will into the format (force of negation). FoN will be used in the twin deck if it is allowed to be unbanned. But with scam having first turn grief, does it matter?
Hypergensis could also go either way, living end is in the format & would require considerable deck construction to make it viable.
Modern horizons has completely changed the format of modern, whether it’s better or worse is subject to interpretation.
But I wholeheartedly believe the banned list needs to be revisited & items given a chance.
Kannister & Mengu did a few play tests on MTGO with a few cards that were unbanned vs current tier 1 decks & the results were lackluster to say the least.
I agree that the ban list needs to be revisited. Artifact lands and Jitte aren't a large upgrade because there are downsides to running those cards that are fairly obvious. Splinter Twin is extremely vulnerable to disruption and while it might be playable it is nowhere near bannable.
Honestly, I'd like to see the original artifact lands unbanned to boost Affinity from the fringe deck it currently is to a mainstay once again in the metagame. My fear with that, however, is that the artifact lands would help Hammertime just as much.
@@fwg1994 Hammertime might get a little boost for achieving metalcraft, but not a big one. It's nice for Saga tokens. Not game breaking at all.
Lol Green Sun's Zenith. Every time I read that card I just smile. tbh I would love to be able to play this in modern. 😁
At first my instinct is "this is too good". However this is a solitude, force of negation and heavy removal format where creature based combo decks have become weak. So it might be ok.
Rotpriest is a worry haha. But I'm in.
I might have missed it but I think Primeval Titan was left out of this GSZ discussion. I wouldn't want to see that deck get more redundancy than it already has.
As a hammertime player jitte may not be okay but I would love to have it
I can't decide if Jitte would be good in the deck, or too good against the deck. So good in the mirror, I guess.
@@MrPeteJahn I have had plenty of game 1's where having access to removal would be really really strong and if you can just tutor a jitte that solves that problem in most cases
You wouldn't play Jitte. It's worse than a cheated Colossus Hammer.
Awesome job Reid 👍🏽
My unpopular vote goes to: Preordain.
Let me make my case, I think most of the decks that people would think this would get slotted into would rather run other cantrips for modern. Control would rather run “Opt” for end-step interaction, Murktide would rather run “Consider” for potential yard pitching, for the most part however, cantrips are not really something that see play in modern nowadays, the highest S-rank decks have no interest in running them (Rakdos Mid, Burn, Hammetime, Footfalls, Creativity, Yawgmoth), these decks don’t run any mainboard deck manipulation spells, I honestly doubt they plan to warp themselves around Preordain.
Disclaimer: I am in no way suggesting the card is not powerful, but it’s definitely not the powerhouse it once was, I can see why something like this could be bannable in modern’s early days, I can no longer see that reason when looking at the current meta nor do I anticipate that the meta warps around this one card. People had a similar worry with “Jace, The Mind Sculptor” getting unbanned and low and behold “Bloodbraid Elf” saw more play from its unbanning than the boogeyman did.
Preordain is several steps down from Ponder. Ponder would homogenise blue decks because they would auto include 4 copies, but Preordain isn't something that every blue deck wants to play.
If u ban amulet or nerf the Titan deck in some way, then zenith is probably good to be unbanned. Otherwise I don’t think it’s a good unban
If red gets Ragavan why can't green and black have deathrite shaman?
There was a splinter twin version of several tier one decks in modern. That’s why it got banned. Reminds me of underworld breach today.
they gotta give me back those bridges from below... without hogaak, who would even play em in todays modern?
Deathrite shaman could potentially be unbanned. Wrenn and six do something very similar, and it allows some interaction and strengthens fair decks in a way that other unbans would do.
Do you want decks that play Ragavan and W6 to also play DRS? Because that's the first thing that happens. Imagine how many decks would get pushed out of viability just because monkey/W6 decks now have DRS as well
@@MikeAsbestos I'm not entirely sure they'd add deathrite, mostly because they currently don't typically run black or green and I don't think there's enough gained by adding drs to justify making the mana base worse. It's a reasonable concern, grixis and Temur Murktide do sound like something that'd be tested, but I think midrange would want drs more than Murktide does
@@mrsnufflegums Wrenn and Six decks tend to play green in my experience 🤷
Deathrite is just a strict upgrade to Ragavan and would be the premier 1 drop of the format. Ragavan has to actually hit your opponent to be useful. Deathrite is super, super versatile and doesn't even have to attack.
@@taylorbates4742 Nope. There is some deck restrictions for DRS. He is a very fair card and I never thought he deserved a ban. Ragavan is different because he requires no investment after you cast him, and then gets lots of value each turn for nothing.
Oh yeah I've been saying that about Jitte a while! It feels messed up when you're able to control the board with it... but we live in a world where your opponent can double thoughtseize you and have a 3/2 menace on the board on turn 1, and you can't really do anything about it on the receiving side. LOL. So I think Jitte, Splinter Twin, and Green Sun's Zenith are all fair game in Modern at the moment.
Your vids are the best dude!
If your gameplan is to win with Jitte, you probably have a tier 3 deck. There are much better cards to be playing. Hammer can win on turn 2 or turn 3, which is the turn that Jitte enters the field.
Splinter Twin decks also get unholy heat, force of negation, fury, subtlety, minor misstep, etc. It might end up being too good still
And don’t forget counter spell
But you could also just play UR Murktide, which only plays good cards, while Twin is stuck playing 8 bad cards that can occasionally win the game.
My phone is so hot for these takes! Love it
Surprised no mention of Glimpse of Nature.
What if by unbanning Splinter Twin, Deceiver Exarch was banned?
Would this make the deck a little fairer?
- It reduces the odds of having the combo naturally in the opening 7 (but it could still happen like any other combo deck);
- Forces the player to search for the missing combo piece (blue has no shortage of cantrips) so as to not always leave untapped mana;
- It doesn't hinder other creature based decks with a blocker with 4 of resistance;
For someone who doesn’t know the format/older cards, I would have liked to see Dryad Arbor and Wrenn and Six display on the video.
Dryad Arbor is a dead card with W6 legal. Sad.
Umezawas jitte
Ponder
Preordain
Seething song
Glimpse of nature
All those cards were banned for much much less tha what ragavan is today
Seething Song should come back. Rite of Flame still seems too fast but Seething Song is fine.
In order to specifically gives Elves the boost while not effecting too many other decks, what about Glimpse of Nature? Elves is already decimated thanks to Fury, Unholy Heat, Plague Engineer, Solitude, and more. I don't think it will be too strong for a fragile deck. And Elves is really the only deck that can consistantly use it well.
Glimpse of Nature can be abused in artifact decks. Would make a new affinity archetype.
Not talking about titan when discussing green sun seems insane to me. It get you every creature in the deck and is very good at doing so. It would probably push titan way to far
Titan already plays summoners pact which it can tutor with tolaria west. So im not sure if I would even play 1 gsz. Also ramping with dryad arbor is not as strong in titan since you already play lots of ramp effects and usually extra land drops with amulets generate more mana than mana dorks
@@drake11011 what i am saying is that pact is a bad card compered to green sun. titan often plays pact fairly to get a drayed into play now (the 2/4 not arbor) and loses the next turn for it. this would make titan way more consistant.
In my book completely different cards. Then you play your Titan for 7 or your Ilysian for 4 or your Grazer for 2. Don't know if it would even impact a lot more than it already does
@@swiftdragonrider Pact is for doing nasty combo stuff. GSZ is for creature decks.
I don't think there's every been a time in Modern's history that Jitte needed to be banned. It's always been useless against half the decks in the format, and it's really slow against the creature decks. 4 mana only to get blown out by bolt on the equip target? Doesn't sound broken to me. That said, like Reid said, it's best against the decks you want to be good in the format, and I'd argue that you gain almost nothing from unbanning unless you have some goal to make the banlist as small as possible. I don't think it makes gameplay better.
Please more of that! more non-2hour content!!!
Blazing shoal, preordain, twin, GSZ, DRS, all can be unbanned safely. It's sad wizards doesn't take the risk, just claiming there's no benefit bc it either changes the format too much or doesn't affect so why bother. We want these cards
Tutors in general are the strongest thing you can do in MTG. When you want to find something cool most other ppl with choose whatever wins them the game on the spot like a craterhoof behemoth or a or a protean hulk to go infinite. Its hard to balance a card that wins you the game on the spot 95% of the time when its played even if you are in that 5% who probably dont abuse it
I would like to see death right shaman get unbanned. Put a bit of a bumb against monkeys and grave shenanigans. Bring back old jund.
Whats funny is ive been begging for twin and jitte to come back... I think the format is way too fast and powerful that they can come off the list and shake things up a bit... and quite possibly not even be good enough anymore. Solitude was a perfect example of a way to interact w twin and even jitte. Great video.
I think Reid put it very well around the 7/8 minute mark - there have been so many great and powerful cards printed into the format since some of these cards have been banned, if these cards were to be unbanned, would it impact the format as much as they did when they first were introduced?
These are absolutely perfect choices, it's long past time that these powerful cards get to see the light of day. The environments that made them problematic are long past.
Now since there are so many different ways to attack the graveyard (I know they unbanned then had to re-ban this card a while ago), but I would be curious to see golgari grave troll again in this format. It does seem that Wizards does not like or enjoy having a powerful dredge deck in the modern format, but I would find it very interesting to see post MH2
while i don't necessarily agree with the choices (birthing pod would be my #1 for sure), i do love the content and video idea. this was great fun.
I used to think splinter twin would be able to be unbanned until MH2 came out and force of negation was printed.
Now I feel like it can never be unbanned.
Punishing fire might honestly be fine now.
Green suns probably no. Even the floor of Amulet playing it as summoners pact 5-8 seems oppressive.
Jitte. Probably debatable for sure.
Ban Amulet of Vigor because its always been the problem.
totally agree about Jitte. Modern seems to be defined by DRC and Ragavan right now, just low curve red creatures, so a Jitte could really mix up the monopoly those creatures hold.
I think twin is a little more suspect. Best deck in modern right now, hands down, is U/R murktide. Red and blue are in a good place, not sure they need a further tool. Red based decks with underworld breach are already flirting this line between being both tempo and combo, seems like a twin package combined with the U/R Murktide shell might be too powerful.
I'd be more worried about Jeskai Twin with T3f3ri to protect the combo.
Would Zenith not crack Titan in half?
Then ban Amulet of Vigor and let everyone else have fun.
3:00 and in an unfair world it will be Venerated Priest. Not a fan to unban Zenith at the moment.
Green sun's zenith is almost surely too strong especially as it boosts amulet titan a ton.
Jitte would be perfectly fine, doubt it would see much play.
Blazing shoal is probably not too strong but it just goes in a stupid deck so there is zero reason to ever unban that.
Splinter twin would be great to come off as it's a fun deck that almost surely isn't too strong (just so much 0 and 1 mana answers now) that if it sees play also keeps unfun uninteractive decks in check. I think it wouldn't see much play actually as ragavan/murktide just does it better but it would be cool to see.
Punishing fire is tough to call, i think it would be fine to unban as there is plenty strong lategame engines already anyway. Just a bit worried how good it would be and easy to slot in decks that would otherwise have no lategame. And it does beat up on the 'fun' decks so probably best to keep on.
Punishing Fire is fringe. 3 mana to cast Shock each turn is not good value. If your opponent loses to that. They were already behind.
Deathrite shaman. Still too good and too crippling?
Not compared to W6. DRS combats W6 because of 2 toughness and exiling lands.
I'm out for blood, give me cloudpost and hypergenesis >: )
Cloudpost is Tron on steroids. Hypergenesis is a bad cascade card and would be safe.
I'm just happy you didn't say faithless looting
GSZ: Nah, I think Amulet Titan just goes more crazy with this and doesn’t do enough for any other deck archetype to benefit the format.
Jitte: YES. I think this would be just fine. I think this could open the door to some forms of control list with SFM and be good in the format. Being able to pump up the equipped creature for beneficial blocking/attacking, being able to kill Ragavan, and incidental life gain are amazing things to feature in the format that aren’t broken.
Punishing Fire: I /think/ this would be fine but I’m not too sure. I don’t think it encourages anything good. I feel like this is a card that kinda does nothing until it does something too powerful and gets axed again. But I could be wrong.
Splinter Twin: This is just fine in the current meta. Modern is very fast currently and Splinter Twin doesn’t force the current meta to speed up to beat it. Not just that, but we have some amazing removal in the format now such as Fatal Push and Unholy Heat to answer it, as well as Solitude, Dress Down, and other cards.
Blazing Shoal: I don’t think a single deck that used to run this card would now. I think the biggest concern for it would be infect, and infect would rather stick to the UG shell with Scale Ups and Mights and Vines and Blossoming Defenses. Shoal doesn’t bring anything to the format to fear.
Whens the reid rant channel comin?? Id watch that religiously
Honest question (from someone who doesn't know that much about Modern) - is Murktide Regent just a stronger win con for UR tempo than Splinter Twin would be? Sure, it is way easier to stop Murktide, but the dragon being a single card that is SO big and can be played for less mana than Twin for countermagic protection purposes... if I was playing that kind of gameplan, would I really want to have to play the Twin pieces and put together the combo when this one card seems so perfect?
I doubt twin would see much play for the same reason. Its a 2 card combo that is quite easy to interrupt. When it was popular the only maindeck interaction commonly played was at least 2 mana. Now there are a ton of 0 and 1 mana answers commonly played. Secondly much stronger alternative finishers such as murktide exist so yes i doubt it would see much play. People would certainly try in droves but i think the deck wouldn't have much success.
Murktide Regent can be beaten fairly. Splinter Twin instantly wins.
i would unban the og artifact lands. Of course they are super powerful and sinergistic in the right shell, but i think there is cap on their power level because mox opal is banned, and also there is a huge potential downside to playing an affinity deck with these lands if it becomes popular, because there are so many different cards to punish it. The fact that you can get your lands blown up repeatedily for 1 mana is punishment enough to deter a lot of people from playing these lands, not mention running into a maindeck karn the great creator or sideboard collector ouphe which shuts down your entire deck.
They're not super powerful. Just make Meltdown moder legal if they're too scary.
I think my biggest issue with all of these (with the exception of maybe P-fire) is that they are auto-includes in decks that already have a comfortable amount of share in the meta. Yes, GSZ would make Devoted Druid a thing again, but it would also be a snap include in Amulet Titan. Jitte would make D&T better at policing the format, but it would also give Hammer Time another out and option. Twin was always "I'm playing the best UR deck but I also have 8-slots for an I win" and I think Murktide and maybe even Grixis Shadow just go for that. These don't promote diversity in the format, they would be Wizards functionally picking a horse to dominate Modern.
I hear a lot of people talking about how removal has gotten better, but so has the countermagic to protect Twin. Twin players didn't have to worry about Heat, Push, or Solitude, but they also couldn't protect themselves with Charm, Force, and Counterspell.
@Debumbivandebumbo Murktide only plays good cards. Twin plays bad cards that can combo off. Playing bad cards doesnt get you far at the moment.
I'd like to throw out Deathrite Shaman on the unban list with the high density of powerful 1 drop creatures, free my favorite MTG card. I understand it's probably too good but I'm biased with loving my beloved Jund deck.
Yawgmoth combo is already top tier. No thanks.
@@PwndNewbie It's not top tier. It's a good deck and playable, but not remotely dominant.
One of the biggest homes for green sun's zenith forgot to mention is titan, which gets so much more consistent. Idk if it's safe making one of the most broken decks in modern even more broken
It's not nearly that good anymore now that boseiju exists
I don't think splinter twin is healthy in a format where blue red is already the most dominant strategy.
Honestly, i prefer to see new cards in play with unbans. Something that punishing fire could do and find game in some strategies with recursive actions..
GSZ imo is an addition too strong for amulet titan and scapeshift.
while Blue red is a very strong and prominent part of the meta i think a number of cards that hold up what we presently know to be a trademark of UR wouldn't necessarily work well with twin. Expressive iteration for starters really plays against what Twin use to do, holding up remands and bolts. Once EI is out, idk how many baubles you play, without high numbers of bauble how many DRC do you play. i think ragavan is probably still an auto include but the rest of the decks is probably still a snapcaster counter spell deck.
Those decks wouldn't play splinter twin. Which card would you remove from your deck to get those extra 8 slots?
@@masondyer7604 EI is great card on its own. You don’t need to build around it. On top of that twin can just play like a control deck and continue to make land drops casting EI on turn 4 or 5. Might not play 4 but it’s still closet thing to dig in the format. You also don’t need to turn it into a bad Murktide deck
Titan just uses summoners pact to grab him for free and kill you that turn. Don’t see why GSZ would be a problem in that deck
@@ryanbob8493
Problem is that GSZ can not just grab titan. Sometimes you are missing cards like dryad or azusa and you can't really grab those with pact.
With GSZ turn 2 dryad is way to consistent imo
Yeah, every one pointed this out already but I'm really not sure Green Sun's Zenith and Primeval Titan can co-exist in Modern. Maybe they can, but I doubt Wizards is willing to take that chance.
I still don't know why seething song and rite of flame is banned
Rite if Flame is fast mana in turn 1.
The problem with splinter twin combos is that it’s not fun when your opponent has the answer at the end of the combo eg Cryptic Command or Settle the Wreckage. Everyone is forced to either wait or say in the chat that they have the answer, which of course could be a lie
Lol, this is why paper magic is significantly better.
splinter twin with teferi time raveler, force of negation and counterspell would be very opressive, and would be miserable to play against
Splinter twin have to be unbanned long ago
Pretty sure unbanning Twin is a wayyy less spicy / controversial take than unbanning Jitte. More people than not these days seem to want Twin unbanned. What on earth is the upside to unbanning Jitte? Even Reid didn't actually give any reason why you would WANT to unban it.
Jitte is too weak to be banned.
could skullclamp or deathrite shaman get an unban?
I don‘t think so
Skullclamp no, DRS yes.
I'm curious that you didn't mention primeval titan when talking about green sun. I'm not sure anyone really wants those two cards paired together
would like to see GSZ and Jitte. Jitte should be fine now. Trouble with GSZ is it means they could never print a new green creature part of a 2-card combo without wrecking Modern. Even now, Yawgmoth would get more consistent for the undyings. I don't miss Twin...what a boring shameless combo format it made. Shoal should be ok...3-card and interactable.
I came here hoping to see splinter twin. I was not disappointed.
100% support a GSZ unban, but would prefer some sort of way creature decks could survive against fury.
I quit playing modern when they banned splinter twin. All my top 8’s at scg modern events were with Tarmo-twin. Still love watching Reid though especially when he pulls out jund
My faeries list has wanted umezawa's jitte to be unbanned for ages, so I have bias, but removal for jitte is arriving in abundance, so I think it would be a fun challenge to engage with. I agree with each of your picks and would love to see how modern evolves with those returning to the format.
How many copies and what would you cut? I played dimir faes for a real long time, and in the end the format just beat it in every way. Not to mention how tight the card margins are split between removal/counter/possible discard etc .. where would you fit it in?
@@sherrix6881 I would play 2-3 honestly. And there isn't a stock faeries list anymore, everyone in the faeries discord is trying their own thing based on how they gain advantage best
i wanna see deathrite shaman unbanned. i feel like with where the format is, it wont be OP
DRS is powerful but fair. Provides counterplay to W6 and Ragavan.
We're talking about unbanning GSZ?! I still want my pod back mannn!
Amulet would be the natural fit for zenith, wouldn't it?
This is a cool segment
YES PLS! My Green Sun's Zenith set has gathered too much dust already
green sun's zenith would make amulet titan so extremely broken
Honestly, I would like to see GSZ and the artifact lands come off the ban list. My issue with Jitte is that with that and wrenn and six x/1 creatures might be punished a bit too hard, unsure. As for twin, I think it's worth a shot. Might make a super interesting elementals deck with a combo finish.
You have to attack with jitte first to get counters on it. Or have some ability to move them onto the creature.
Saga + artifact lands? Nty
@@kylejoly577 most fragile manabase ever
@@TNCombatMedic Sure, its entirely possible that Jitte is too slow to make a large impact, but it does heavily punish decks that try to snowball a board, and we already have stuff like Wrenn and Six/Fury/Plague engineer in the format that really heavily punish these sorts of decks already. I just worry that if we keep adding these sorts of powerful effects in modern it will make decks like Merfolk almost unplayable. Wrenn was largely banned from legacy because it was pushing decks like elves out of the format.
@@eric58400 oh trust me, im the foremost blood moon enjoyer in Modern atm. But a deck like hammer would run a playset of ancient den for sure
I love jitte.
If ragavan exists, oko should be unbanned.
rakdos charm and golgari charm exist for twin
Give us preordain please, it would be cool to have on good cantrip. And no consider is trash don’t @ me
They never seem to ban counter spells and decks that can win on turn one. By me the same decks top 8 all the time. Unbanning many of the cards on the list would be great and encourage new builds. WotC keeps pushing the power level of cards and some of these older cards are just not as good as the new ones anyways. I think most people that complain about some of these cards worry about the value of the cards they have now going down and having to rebuild in a meta shift.
Do you think Birthing Pod would still be oppressive in today's Modern? I feel like the same Creatures Toolbox combos still exist and operate at such speed these days that they might not care for the Pod anymore. Like, they just cast Eladamri's Call to find their pieces or Chord of Calling in their opponent's end step, and they have one-off Pod activations available (Eldritch Evolution) and they don't need a repeatable way to do the same thing. On the other hand, there might be midrange decks that would use Pod for value rather than to combo off.
Pod is tricky. You are trading speed for resiliency/consistency. Speed matters more now than it used to. But the scary thing now is that creatures are just so much better than they used to be. A Modern Pod deck would probably just be abusing incarnations, but who knows what else they could print?
Yes. Consistent turn 3 combo kill. Much stronger now than before.
Unban splinter twin, ban pestermite and deceiver exarch, so the combo moves to white, or at least creatures without flash.
I see Reid Duke. I click.
Why cant they restrict cards from being in the same decks instead of completely killing cards with bans?
i think that with venerated rotpries green sun zenith gets moore powerful in modern tho
but jitte unbanned kills it haha, and splinter twin i think the formar cand deal with it, so unban those 3 i guess? good video! and also unban deathrite shaman, the format also can deal with it!
but now, rotpriest kind of give 2turn kills so i guess it will be banned at some point once its decks get more refined
I thought for SURE he was talking about Deathrite Shaman for the first card.
We can dream
No way, not as long as there are fetches.
I finally got to play him in Legacy and he’s fucking amazing. 🥹
@@drakarrx
He's banned in legacy
@@malte54 oops right it was type one
Mycosynth lattice is FINNNEEEEEEEEEE
Print fireblast in modern you cowards!
This one right here.
I think the first three cards are way too powerful to put back into modern. Splinter Twin might take over UR Murktides spot in the metagame. It feels like a combo finish to a U/R Control shell is better than a midrange finish, but people haven't played breach Emrakul UR decks for a while either so Murktide might just stay good. I think Green Sun's Zenith would bring back Creatures Toolbox as an oppressive deck in the format. As for the other two, they're cheap flexible card advantage engines. I remember when people were talking about unbanning Stoneforge, Bloodbraid, and Jace. Stoneforge Mystic is in the best combo deck in the format, and it's easy to slot into a modern deck because it's powerful and cheap. The other two cost four mana, but are powerful so they see fringe play. The additional problem with Jitte and Twin is that the first definitely buffs one of the best decks, Hammer Time, and the second one could just replace the best deck in the format, UR Murktide. That doesn't help diversify the format.
I thought one of the big downsides for GSZ not mentioned by Reid is that it would cause green decks to homogenize in a way they all play it. It just adds so much consistency to any deck that can run it.
Creature combo decks use non-green combo pieces. Fair decks would gain the ability to run silver bullets.