Everything has its pros and cons. DPS meter IME can be use as a good personal trainer, to improve upon yourself. Using it yell at another player saying " why are you not doing so and so" is not gonna help unless you actively give them advice when it is asked. They can add it to where a in-game dps meter along with the option to hide that info from other players using the DPS meter such as the much needed security of hiding your character profile from others to avoid gatekeeping or at the very least minimize it.
its a bad idea cause the gatekeep gets that much worse, dont think about the flame mid raid, think of the flame pre raid where "YoU DoNt HiT ThE MiNiMum ParSE", it forces players who dont want anything to do with it have to use it.
I think the Lost Ark West and FFXIV route are the best routes to take for DPS meters. They're a "bannable offense" but nobody actually gets banned for using them so long as you're not talking about it in game. Almost every single person I know uses the DPS meter in Lost Ark. Nobodies ever gotten banned for it, we can't be toxic over it because we can't mention it in game, and it gives us good statistics for improving our gameplay and how good/bad classes are on average.
another thing with DPS meters and logs is that: I want to compare my damage to other people who are playing the same class and similar item levels to see if I have something to improve on or I have reached what the class is capable of. But without a wide database available, I can only guess if I have anything to improve on.
problem with this, is that those numbers are so irrelevant in lost ark. There are a wide variety of things that influence dps to the point that there is no clear number that would be good. You have card sets, set level, engravings, stat points, skill points, item lvl, weapon quality, total group dps (makes a lot of difference for burst classes) and the list goes on. I am a fan of dps meters, but the dmg comparison in this game is kinda dogshit unfortunately
@@obvioustrash7833 I don't use the dps meter, but you can check his profile. You can see everything he's running from there. You don't need a dps meter to compare yourself either, just base from the MVP screen. If you're not there = you played bad/(gear/class) problem/everyone in your lobby is a gigachad, if you're there, you can see how much you do in comparison based on the words. CF 40% UF 30% F >20%. So if you take in to account the difference in your gear to theirs, you can basically have an idea of who's playing worse or not.
My main question is, since people keep asking for dps meter. How would the game improve for me as a regular player when dps meter was an option? Would I get less toxicity? Better players? Find supports more easily? Have less stress and/or more time to do the things I enjoy in the game?
Players that care about doing top dps can feel validated in their ego. Anyone doing subpar damage or playing a "bad" class will get a dogshit experience for underpeforming and get gatekept even harder. That's fucking absurd for a casual video game. And even for the regular player that wouldn't give a shit about dps usually, they'll feel disheartened when someone on their party or they themselves have a shit run, literally just because everyone can see it. It's such a stupid idea to put public meters and logs into this game, it would do more harm than good imo. Personal ones, who gives a shit. Better than "upright fighter".
People who get to see their own stats will know whether they are playing well or not. Then they can try to improve in the areas they are lacking. Then the average quality of players will be higher.
Meter logs every skill cast, it tracks your casts per minute for every skill, it logs your backattk/front attk percentage for every skill, skills landed vs skills cast, it tracks your buff uptime from supports and other players. It's a tool, that shows you what the game is already tracking but hides from players.
they are toxic as hell cos players turn them into something else to beat other people over the head with due to the annomity of the internet. At their core they are a very useful tool, sadly the majority of players are just to stupid to utilize them properly or know how dps works.
The "best" solution is to making harassing/flaming others with it bannable, but the usage not, and here's why: In MMOs, there is often so much hidden information that it's really, really hard to find out if you're playing optimally or even just decently. A DPS meter is by far and away the best avenue for self improvement because of the information it gives you. In particular, it's the only way supports can actually empirically tell how well they're doing, especially if you run a meter that calcs rDPS (Raid DPS, a metric that was created in FF14 to help the ranged DPS classes that brought raidwide damage buffs and had less personal damage). All MMOs with healthy endgame populations heavily encourage meter use among players who care to improve. It's just the best solution. I've done endgame content in both FF14 and GW2 and meter use is not only heavily encouraged, it's downright required if you want to do the most challenging content in the game. These games also have a VERY casual playerbase. And at least in FF14, the culture is such that when you're doing Party Finder, people will almost always check your logged raids. Again, I want to reiterate that FF14 has an extremely healthy endgame and one of the most casual communities in gaming, period, and some of the hardest MMO content ever made, so it does and CAN work.
That defeats the purpose of it. You use it to see what damage looks like against your peers. Also to provide information on other buffs. Toxicity is already there but atleast now you will know who is doing zdps
@@eliascarlsson2624 dps number in vaccuum makes no sense. Like you did the raid, you got a number 2m at the end. Is it good for your class/gear? Who knows. You can't even compare it to your own numbers in other runs, because your dps is heavily affected by support. Without seeing support uptime you can barely even make a call if it's you doing something wrong or just support is drooling on the keyboard.
@@jlee9360maybe the current situation is exactly what you need then. Everyone who wants to be a min-max dmg goblin can do so personally and know about their performance, but once you start being problematic by blaming other people or publicly gatekeep (yk, the cons of the whole thing), you eat a ban.
Being "greedy" to a certain extent is what you should aim for though. Pushing your character's performance to it's absolute limit should be the end goal after all.
@@AceCapisand people get to the level of being greedy without jeopadizing the team by being blind greed first and see all the consequences and adjust from there. Believe me i’m an Artillerist player so i know, you always have to try to tank every patterns, and then from that, you can learn which ones to tank, which ones to dodge. If you are a scardy cat, dodging everything, you can never be a good dps. And that’s apply for many other classes.
Current mvp system brings out just as much if not more toxicity than dps meters. When people see, upright fighter vs fighter, they immediately assume the worst case: upright got 30% and fighter got 20%. Even if the reality is 29% fighter vs 31% upright. This leads to people thinking that a class that get fighter instead of upright is a whopping 50% worse instead of like 5%.
I think a personal meter where we can see what we did and see that compared to an average for our class would be great. I don't want to see other player's numbers tbh
DPS meter is absolutely required in Hell Mode content in order to learn at a faster pace. It is impossible to tell if you are doing a fair share of damage without finishing on the mvp screen and as a support you will never know for sure how good your uptime is. Gatekeeping is an issue imo because it's unfair. You generally pick people who you hope will perform mechs and do adequate damage to beat the content with consistency. However the game deliberately has no real options to filter people by skill or performance with the exception of hell titles for incredibly old content. It can change the question from what inputs do you have(gear/gems/card/quality/ect) to what outputs do you make(your performance result). This especially helps for new players with low roster levels that have learned the raids and have troubles getting in a group. An easy quick fix would be to make the current 10 clear titles only count if you are alive at the end so they mean a little more than now and can't be afk bussed.
You are 100% Correct. The word I think would be adequate is the visceral feel of being rewarded with getting gold or good loot is so rare in Lost Ark it is very unmotivating even though we do it regardless. I think if the gold rewards were much higher there would be more incentive (obviously) to play but feel like you accomplished something. There has to be more give & take with the developers in terms of gold & especially if rmting & huge inflation cannot be permanently stopped.
I've been in few guilds, and every time ppl who claim dps meter "isn't toxic, it helps me improve personally" ended up posting logs shaming randos on multiple occasions. If you have to break ToS at least dont be an asshole to others. Personally i wouln't mind player specific breakdown after each battle, so you can see critrate/positional uptime/buff uptime for supps etc- It could be useful when learning new classes. But then again, don't think Smilegate cares enough
So long as they're not expressing their toxicity IN GAME and to the person underperforming it's fine. I think collectively, people expect others to perform at the expected level and that's fine. Making fun of the dumbass doing 3m in brel g4 as a 1580+ is funny.
if i do a raid and some guy is obviously playing with his monitor off and i post the meter showing this to my friends there is nothing wrong with that. Its only a problem if u start berating ppl to their face ingame.
It's hard finding cool people. I feel like LFGs in this game are useless, but this is coming from someone who's seen and played with people through Destiny 2 LFG. Destiny 2 LFG is actually fucking godlike. Most people/guilds/whatever are already cliqued up. Finding communities is just about the same and a bunch of them get advertised, but are dead/inactive. The MVP screen is fucking useless. It only shows what the guy in first did. I wish it would only show your own stats, because in reality that's all I give a fuck about. Fuck what the Igniter Sorc did, Fuck what the support did. I want to know what I DID.
Modern gaming is all about coddling the lowest performers, we are at a point where COMPETITIVE shooters with pvp leaderboards are trying to take away a score screen to not offend people who are preforming badly. If anything being the person pulling 5x less dps causing the whole raid to wipe to extra mechs struggle to clear is way more toxic then any elitist judging you for how you preform
As an insider, I can tell you that some(most) of the DPS distributions in community guides are from holy scripture. Not all of them tho, some test skills 1-by-1 to eliminate Crit RNG and just count up number of skill uses per rotation.
This game already has crazy gate keeping , now mfs bout to throw the dps meter in there 😮 , and I said when the game first came out we need wayyyyyyyyy more gold for these raids
I think that the toxicity and gatekeeping existing already is an argument for DPS meters, people blame it for all the world's problem but most people just use it for self-improvement and people that don't would already be dickheads
Ppl use meters to gatekeep or at least blacklist already. Ive had people talking shit but if they could see the alleged meters i dont have it would shut them up. I think its overall more toxic in this community than helpful but there could be a silverlining
i was against it at first but, i dont think i've come across anyone toxic. they're mainly using it for themselves to better themselves. So tbh, idc if folks have or use it at this point.
I created the post the video inside stoopz's video refers to. I can confirm i was banned from the discord for it. There was no toxicity from me i didnt break their rules they simply didnt like the topic and i was banned from the discord. I was given no warning or time period. I can only assume im perma banned for discussing the potential of having one.
I play sh. Same here. I only mvp for stagger. Which is usually worthless since a lot of raid bosses don't naturally stagger anyways. I wish the low dps classes can at least bring good synergy.
Greeding dps is not a bad thing? Greeding dps is abusing a dps pattern. If you dont abuse dps patterns you ruin your uptime. Damage done at the end of the raid in an equal setting to in general, is literally ALL ABOUT uptime.
Lost ark (compared to wow) has too much rng by quality, stone, bracelet that it is nearly impossible to compare the dmg by class alone. The only benefit of a dps meter is for sups because they can get a real time feedback how high their uptime was and how much dmg they contributed by buffing the dps which most sups want to know how good they impacted to the group
Best solution to raid anxiety - forget rushing for the most recent content and just play with prog parties. Half the time these kinds of parties clear faster than "exp" anyway
I dont even like seeing screenshots of the bible in private dms and such. Youd never know ive had one (hypothetically, if i was using one, this is not an admission of guilt) because ive not taken a screenshot or bragged about a parse or shit on someone for theirs in public or in private. If im on the mvp screen, thats good enough for me publically, my individual parse would be for me to get better. I do see a lot of people who do that, use it for ammo or be toxic in general; and bans should be in order for those people. No need for that type of stuff imo
mvp should compare you with average of your class instead of players in your raid. Until they actually balance their classes properly the mvp screen is only used to bait people into maining a new class / upgrading gear
Unfortunately will never happen because it's on purpose why class balance is terrible in this game, specially new released classes. They purposely make every new class completely busted to tantalize people into creating a new character out of it because most of the game's population are a bunch of meta chasers.
DPS meter can make you play less greedy and more efficient. It allows you to properly determine which skills you need to prioritize and which ones you can drop from your rotation when playing safe.
I use dps meter and its really helpful to figure out dps between engravings, max skill damage, avg skill damage and which skills per class do the most damage. As a support you can also see who's doing the most damage so you can focus your buffs around that player. Most of all you can find the imposters and flame, report and gatekeep them until they quit the game cap
i wont. and i wont talk to Stoopz anymore untill he officialy fights Pheons and stops cooperating with AGS untill they have a Solution for that Pheon issue.
Gold river, bless them man, is old fashioned, and stubborn. It's his game view sure, but the commmunity, who they said by the way they would try to listen to, is asking for a dps meter. At least try it, if it doesnt work remove it. Hell they freakin mess up every balance patch and the game is still fine. DPS meter has pros and cons and we can aegue all day. What we can't argue hypotheticals unless it is put into effect. You miss every shot you don't take, is smilegate missing out with no dps meter, with dps meter? Who knows, they haven't taken a shot and we will never know until then.
I got 24h ban for talking about meter in game with a pug, we were vague and cryptic about it but someone from the group knew what we talked about and reported us. Immediately after raid ended I got a 24h ban, reason was one of those in game report options that mentions botting. Never mentioned it in game since, been doing fine.
Maybe they can make gold distributed by your effectiveness in the raid. Then some overgeared players might want to invite lower ilvls. You did 2x the dmg, you get 2x the gold.
bible will be good so you can sniff out the roster 250 players that are bad at the game and actually let the good roster 100 with hands and isnt a senior citizen in to the lobby,
The only real reason damage meters are bad for "gatekeeping" is because it gives people a reason to gatekeep giga whales who have max everything and still do z dps. In a world where everyone is using a damage meter and someones 1620 lvl 10 gems doing less than a 1580 TTH GS they'd prob get kicked. It would be a good thing for the average player but a huge monetary loss for asg lol
it will be definitely a net negative for all players. toxic players will be more likely to lash out against people on the tail of the meter chart. and some not so toxic players may have higher chance to blame people sitting on the bottom of the meter chart. it will not help in current toxic environment. it will eventually evolved into apply thaemine raid with screenshots of your damage meter to determine if you are capable of doing enough dps. this will introduce the WOW problem to lost ark.
So should someone doing zdps not be called out? Someone doing no damage in a raid that requires multiple people should be illegal. The real toxicity is people joining raids/dungeons or any "endgame" content and not knowing the basics of their jobs. If the raid takes 8m dps to clear and theres a person doing 100k as a dps should they not be called out or blamed? without a meter you cant tell whos doing good or bad UNTIL you clear.
@@Tjzzzzz u definitely should not call out the person, you create a toxic environment that leaves a bad taste for other 7 people. this sort of behavior discourages people from engaging with the game. if you are doing zdps in a raid, lower than 7 other whales/expert players whether because they have better gear or better skill, should they call u out and potentially kick u? how would you feel? the right way should be explaining mech/pattern to the zdps guy and help him do more dps and finish the raid together. by doing so, you help retained another new player for the game instead of driving them away.
Sure new players need help with that. but what if someone is doing zdps in MY party that has "know mechs" in the title. I'm not here to teach unless i want to teach. People are going to do zdps regardless of being new or a giga whale, same with toxicity it's going to be there with or without dps meters. Calling someone out is the start of helping someone, how can someone know they need to improve if no one tells them? As i said in my comment, someone joining a EXPERT party should do EXPERT dps and performance and if not, they SHOULD get called out and reflect on their gameplay. People joining and failing mechs and doing zdps are going to get more or less the same interactions because of the dps meter. We have it in FFXIV. It's the same shit outside of being able to whale any sort of gear advantage and guess what, There's not too many who publicly shaming people and if they do the get shunned themselves by the rest of the community. I don't see why lost ark can't do that as a community/dev team. Ban/exfoliate players who go out of their way to callout people for doing no damage on the meter and thats it, no constructive criticism, tips or helpful comments. @@ceacaralex3994
toxic ppl will be an ass WITH or WITHOUT the dps meter, so its not really an argument to not have it. Issue is the coommunity, not the tool. TLDR: commuynity need to touch grass or have thicc skin. Sounds rought, but SG isnt the issue, the game isnt the issue, its each one of us that have so much mental dmg and autism within that we cant' having a normal human interaction on a coomers game.
a good game design would curb human worst side. lost ark did not work on curbing, instead, it double down on it, exploiting it as much as possible. MVP screen, showing players all stats in the lobby application. real money auction house. pheons. @@TheAlkarin
dps meters in a p2win game is dumb as hell lmao one guy couzld have bettter gear lvl and outdmg by far which doesnt make sense . Only in inferno do ppl use dps meters caus its equalised and theres an expected dps u need to do to clear so u can weed out the noobs. in any other content its just ego boost and cringe
I don't see how dps meter helps in any way... You know your ceiling (trixion), or you can train your ceiling. All you have to do in a raid is try to play to that ceiling. Some classes make it very easy for you to play there like aeromancer (with lots of swift/movement/easy rotations), others have aspects that lower your ceiling uptime, like back atk, self buff skills you need to land etc. In an actual raid you know exactly when you miss your red dust (berserker self buff) or perfect swing hits the side and that's what is lowering your dps. I don't see how dps meter would help with any of that.. What you need is to watch the boss and not your cooldowns and concentrate more on the game.
To use meter as a tool you can't really compare it to trixion parses. Trixion parses should only be used within a vacuum to analyze theoretical settings, not realistic ones. Like is it possibly to fit X skills into a red dust window. If your red dust window has a .3 second window, then rolling to dodge an attack can make one skill miss. In order to properly use meter to improve your performance I'd look at your synergy/buff uptimes (like red dust, death strike, etc.) to ensure that you are maintaining your buffs, looking at your average CPM (Cast Per Minute) and HPM (Hits Per Minute) etc., and only to that one raid. For my Zerker I was trying to do the giga tryhard rotation and I noticed that my DPS was dropping because I kept having attacks not be part of the red dust window. I switched back to one of the easier ones and my DPS improved. It can be hard to compare different gates to each other because of how they flow for each class. For example, G1 Akkan vs G3 Akkan is a big show of this. The big spec burst classes just pop off in the first half of G3 because of all the time they get to build meter and then the sup will generally use identity + dark bomb. Actually doing this is time consuming and probably more than what most people could be bothered to do but this is what I've done before. Also, when I choose what gems to upgrade, I go based off of my meter performances, not the community guide parses. I'd rather upgrade based on how I perform, not on what is optimal in a theoretical setting. Personally, in most pugs, I hide the meter window because, like you said, you need to watch the boss and concentrate on the game, not try to dmg goblino. I don't think I've ever seen a raid where everyone is alive and they still hit enrage due to a lack of dmg - it's always because someone died. I'll look at the meter after the gate is over to see how I did and review anything if needed. When I'm with my static/friends, I'll have it up because we are all trying to compete with each other and we use it to motivate each other. Ironically, the dps meter probably offers the best info for supports. Sup buff uptime is a massive part of damage. It's pretty interesting to see the uptime numbers of the sup for a spec dps vs swift dps. Most sups can keep the buffs up during easy windows, where spec classes burst, but you can see it drop off in harder damage patterns where the swift classes should still be doing dmg.
Raw information is always way better than guessing, especially in an MMO. It's true that as a good and/or experienced player, you tend to build strong intuitions on your performance, but intuition only gets you so far. But what if you're not a good player yet, and you don't have those intuitions? If you've ever used the community guides for this game, new classes don't have their DPS distributions filled in UNTIL they arrive in the West, and for ANY class's DPS distribution, the only easy way you get this information is by running meter. Koreans can tell you generally which skills to prioritize and which does more, but there's no way they can tell you "X skill does Y% of your damage" and have it be as accurate as running it through the meter. Also, the ceiling argument is very silly, because certain builds parse horribly in Trixion, Igniter Sorc's parse would have you believe they are among the worst classes in the game, Reflux parses much higher. Also, Control Glaivier parses higher than Pinnacle, and First Intention Wardancer parses higher than Eso, but in actual raids, the spec builds will almost always outshine. Trixion is for theoretical situations and testing variations on your build/rotation. You cannot use it to accurately assess your damage or "ceiling," even as many Koreans falsely believe this to be true.
25:40 That... That's it, its that. ''Oh but with meter i can improve and be a better'' shut the hell up you know that's bs. If you're playing well you can feel it and your reward is the content is completed and you're alive, or whatever subjective shiet you want but 25:40 is an actual tangible factual issue.
Bring the DPS meter in game and you'll find yourself a bunch of egotistical annoying monkeys everywhere where all they care about is numbers while bringing in skills from the trash
I agree with Jukwol that the bible is pretty neutral, it's just likely that we'll see more people using them negatively more than not. My take on the MVP screen is that it's a waste of time. I do like to see how well I did if I can, but if you're not a bozo, you kind of know if you did bad or not. You also could just get some one way over-geared for the content. Why I say it's a waste of time is just that it is. Instead of moving on to the next gate sooner, you gotta wait for the MVP screen. Instead of being able to claim your guardian souls and then leave, you also get interrupted by the MVP screen. Instead of getting to the auction at the end of a raid, oh wait, time for MVP screen first!
i love you stoopzz. dps meters are needed even for babies. we also need a "patchwork" style simbot to go with it to make sure we're hitting what we should on rotations
Everything has its pros and cons. DPS meter IME can be use as a good personal trainer, to improve upon yourself. Using it yell at another player saying " why are you not doing so and so" is not gonna help unless you actively give them advice when it is asked. They can add it to where a in-game dps meter along with the option to hide that info from other players using the DPS meter such as the much needed security of hiding your character profile from others to avoid gatekeeping or at the very least minimize it.
its a bad idea cause the gatekeep gets that much worse, dont think about the flame mid raid, think of the flame pre raid where "YoU DoNt HiT ThE MiNiMum ParSE", it forces players who dont want anything to do with it have to use it.
I think the Lost Ark West and FFXIV route are the best routes to take for DPS meters. They're a "bannable offense" but nobody actually gets banned for using them so long as you're not talking about it in game. Almost every single person I know uses the DPS meter in Lost Ark. Nobodies ever gotten banned for it, we can't be toxic over it because we can't mention it in game, and it gives us good statistics for improving our gameplay and how good/bad classes are on average.
another thing with DPS meters and logs is that: I want to compare my damage to other people who are playing the same class and similar item levels to see if I have something to improve on or I have reached what the class is capable of. But without a wide database available, I can only guess if I have anything to improve on.
problem with this, is that those numbers are so irrelevant in lost ark. There are a wide variety of things that influence dps to the point that there is no clear number that would be good. You have card sets, set level, engravings, stat points, skill points, item lvl, weapon quality, total group dps (makes a lot of difference for burst classes) and the list goes on. I am a fan of dps meters, but the dmg comparison in this game is kinda dogshit unfortunately
@@obvioustrash7833how do those variables make it irrelevant? Its not like you cant see what theyre running
@@oalkiecan you see all of that in a log? Skins, card dmg, atk power, weapon quality, card book bonus etc
@@obvioustrash7833 I don't use the dps meter, but you can check his profile. You can see everything he's running from there. You don't need a dps meter to compare yourself either, just base from the MVP screen. If you're not there = you played bad/(gear/class) problem/everyone in your lobby is a gigachad, if you're there, you can see how much you do in comparison based on the words. CF 40% UF 30% F >20%. So if you take in to account the difference in your gear to theirs, you can basically have an idea of who's playing worse or not.
My main question is, since people keep asking for dps meter. How would the game improve for me as a regular player when dps meter was an option? Would I get less toxicity? Better players? Find supports more easily? Have less stress and/or more time to do the things I enjoy in the game?
Players that care about doing top dps can feel validated in their ego.
Anyone doing subpar damage or playing a "bad" class will get a dogshit experience for underpeforming and get gatekept even harder. That's fucking absurd for a casual video game.
And even for the regular player that wouldn't give a shit about dps usually, they'll feel disheartened when someone on their party or they themselves have a shit run, literally just because everyone can see it.
It's such a stupid idea to put public meters and logs into this game, it would do more harm than good imo.
Personal ones, who gives a shit. Better than "upright fighter".
People who get to see their own stats will know whether they are playing well or not. Then they can try to improve in the areas they are lacking. Then the average quality of players will be higher.
Meter logs every skill cast, it tracks your casts per minute for every skill, it logs your backattk/front attk percentage for every skill, skills landed vs skills cast, it tracks your buff uptime from supports and other players. It's a tool, that shows you what the game is already tracking but hides from players.
they are toxic as hell cos players turn them into something else to beat other people over the head with due to the annomity of the internet. At their core they are a very useful tool, sadly the majority of players are just to stupid to utilize them properly or know how dps works.
The "best" solution is to making harassing/flaming others with it bannable, but the usage not, and here's why:
In MMOs, there is often so much hidden information that it's really, really hard to find out if you're playing optimally or even just decently. A DPS meter is by far and away the best avenue for self improvement because of the information it gives you. In particular, it's the only way supports can actually empirically tell how well they're doing, especially if you run a meter that calcs rDPS (Raid DPS, a metric that was created in FF14 to help the ranged DPS classes that brought raidwide damage buffs and had less personal damage).
All MMOs with healthy endgame populations heavily encourage meter use among players who care to improve. It's just the best solution. I've done endgame content in both FF14 and GW2 and meter use is not only heavily encouraged, it's downright required if you want to do the most challenging content in the game. These games also have a VERY casual playerbase. And at least in FF14, the culture is such that when you're doing Party Finder, people will almost always check your logged raids. Again, I want to reiterate that FF14 has an extremely healthy endgame and one of the most casual communities in gaming, period, and some of the hardest MMO content ever made, so it does and CAN work.
I don't see an issue with a personal meter, it's when you start having all the players'' DPS shown to everyone else that the toxicity starts.
Yes i agree for this it was same as iLv and Rooster shown beside of your character ign that start gatekeeping so much
That defeats the purpose of it. You use it to see what damage looks like against your peers. Also to provide information on other buffs.
Toxicity is already there but atleast now you will know who is doing zdps
@@jlee9360 atleast you can see your overall dps and when you shine. Where You can improve etc
@@eliascarlsson2624 dps number in vaccuum makes no sense. Like you did the raid, you got a number 2m at the end. Is it good for your class/gear? Who knows. You can't even compare it to your own numbers in other runs, because your dps is heavily affected by support. Without seeing support uptime you can barely even make a call if it's you doing something wrong or just support is drooling on the keyboard.
@@jlee9360maybe the current situation is exactly what you need then. Everyone who wants to be a min-max dmg goblin can do so personally and know about their performance, but once you start being problematic by blaming other people or publicly gatekeep (yk, the cons of the whole thing), you eat a ban.
Being "greedy" to a certain extent is what you should aim for though. Pushing your character's performance to it's absolute limit should be the end goal after all.
the thing is being greedy is straight up negative.
When a player knows "when to greed" without jeopardizing the team it is straight up skill😂
@@AceCapisand people get to the level of being greedy without jeopadizing the team by being blind greed first and see all the consequences and adjust from there. Believe me i’m an Artillerist player so i know, you always have to try to tank every patterns, and then from that, you can learn which ones to tank, which ones to dodge. If you are a scardy cat, dodging everything, you can never be a good dps. And that’s apply for many other classes.
PRO: You know the imposters in your party
CON: You're the imposter getting kicked lmao
Current mvp system brings out just as much if not more toxicity than dps meters. When people see, upright fighter vs fighter, they immediately assume the worst case: upright got 30% and fighter got 20%. Even if the reality is 29% fighter vs 31% upright. This leads to people thinking that a class that get fighter instead of upright is a whopping 50% worse instead of like 5%.
Only difference is that meter enables you to be toxic during gates. Same thing; different flavor.
Don't know why the mvp screen doesn't show the percentages for everybody in the mvp screen except for the one getting mvp.
@@JeyJ24 This is good. I will gladly kick out below 10m dps bozos in akkan hm g3.
I think a personal meter where we can see what we did and see that compared to an average for our class would be great. I don't want to see other player's numbers tbh
DPS meter is absolutely required in Hell Mode content in order to learn at a faster pace. It is impossible to tell if you are doing a fair share of damage without finishing on the mvp screen and as a support you will never know for sure how good your uptime is. Gatekeeping is an issue imo because it's unfair. You generally pick people who you hope will perform mechs and do adequate damage to beat the content with consistency. However the game deliberately has no real options to filter people by skill or performance with the exception of hell titles for incredibly old content. It can change the question from what inputs do you have(gear/gems/card/quality/ect) to what outputs do you make(your performance result). This especially helps for new players with low roster levels that have learned the raids and have troubles getting in a group. An easy quick fix would be to make the current 10 clear titles only count if you are alive at the end so they mean a little more than now and can't be afk bussed.
You are 100% Correct. The word I think would be adequate is the visceral feel of being rewarded with getting gold or good loot is so rare in Lost Ark it is very unmotivating even though we do it regardless. I think if the gold rewards were much higher there would be more incentive (obviously) to play but feel like you accomplished something. There has to be more give & take with the developers in terms of gold & especially if rmting & huge inflation cannot be permanently stopped.
I've been in few guilds, and every time ppl who claim dps meter "isn't toxic, it helps me improve personally" ended up posting logs shaming randos on multiple occasions. If you have to break ToS at least dont be an asshole to others. Personally i wouln't mind player specific breakdown after each battle, so you can see critrate/positional uptime/buff uptime for supps etc- It could be useful when learning new classes. But then again, don't think Smilegate cares enough
So long as they're not expressing their toxicity IN GAME and to the person underperforming it's fine. I think collectively, people expect others to perform at the expected level and that's fine. Making fun of the dumbass doing 3m in brel g4 as a 1580+ is funny.
if i do a raid and some guy is obviously playing with his monitor off and i post the meter showing this to my friends there is nothing wrong with that. Its only a problem if u start berating ppl to their face ingame.
The reason I stopped playing DPS in this game is because I had no idea if I was doing good or not, or what I could improve lol.
I subbed because of the intro to make u happy stoopzz :)
It's hard finding cool people. I feel like LFGs in this game are useless, but this is coming from someone who's seen and played with people through Destiny 2 LFG. Destiny 2 LFG is actually fucking godlike. Most people/guilds/whatever are already cliqued up. Finding communities is just about the same and a bunch of them get advertised, but are dead/inactive.
The MVP screen is fucking useless. It only shows what the guy in first did. I wish it would only show your own stats, because in reality that's all I give a fuck about. Fuck what the Igniter Sorc did, Fuck what the support did. I want to know what I DID.
Modern gaming is all about coddling the lowest performers, we are at a point where COMPETITIVE shooters with pvp leaderboards are trying to take away a score screen to not offend people who are preforming badly. If anything being the person pulling 5x less dps causing the whole raid to wipe to extra mechs struggle to clear is way more toxic then any elitist judging you for how you preform
I use the meter. I want to know how I am doing and how to improve.
As an insider, I can tell you that some(most) of the DPS distributions in community guides are from holy scripture. Not all of them tho, some test skills 1-by-1 to eliminate Crit RNG and just count up number of skill uses per rotation.
This game already has crazy gate keeping , now mfs bout to throw the dps meter in there 😮 , and I said when the game first came out we need wayyyyyyyyy more gold for these raids
I also think quite a few people who gatekeep will see how trash they are also lol
the game is already toxic with the gatekeeping and stuff right. why not make it double with the dps meter? xd
@@nostrahazer8970 why no one is forced to carry players who don't do enough damage.
I think that the toxicity and gatekeeping existing already is an argument for DPS meters, people blame it for all the world's problem but most people just use it for self-improvement and people that don't would already be dickheads
Ppl use meters to gatekeep or at least blacklist already. Ive had people talking shit but if they could see the alleged meters i dont have it would shut them up. I think its overall more toxic in this community than helpful but there could be a silverlining
tell goldriver to increase the gold for akkan and voldis for us before he leaves. . you have his ear tech support company man
does the dps meter show uptime for support buffs as well?
i was against it at first but, i dont think i've come across anyone toxic. they're mainly using it for themselves to better themselves. So tbh, idc if folks have or use it at this point.
I created the post the video inside stoopz's video refers to. I can confirm i was banned from the discord for it. There was no toxicity from me i didnt break their rules they simply didnt like the topic and i was banned from the discord. I was given no warning or time period. I can only assume im perma banned for discussing the potential of having one.
what if they made it so people who didnt make it to the mvp screen could go see the detailed dps meters after a raid
Yeah, double their shame. 👿
@@___IGshame of what?
There are people who can't get 10% of the boss damage, and there are quite a few people.
Bring back earl outro ULTRAMAD
I play gun-lancer I know I’m lowest dps and no mvp screen unless last alive 😂😭
I play sh. Same here. I only mvp for stagger. Which is usually worthless since a lot of raid bosses don't naturally stagger anyways. I wish the low dps classes can at least bring good synergy.
@@O_RLYI play sh, and I get mvp pretty often for dps. Works for it brotherman, sh is not weak.
@@O_RLY SH pumps, go do hellmode for a free grudge envgraving to every class you play
Aren't they banned anyway?
Me and 3 of my friends carry every 8 man content anyways so it wouldn't change anything.
Greeding dps is not a bad thing? Greeding dps is abusing a dps pattern. If you dont abuse dps patterns you ruin your uptime. Damage done at the end of the raid in an equal setting to in general, is literally ALL ABOUT uptime.
Lost ark (compared to wow) has too much rng by quality, stone, bracelet that it is nearly impossible to compare the dmg by class alone. The only benefit of a dps meter is for sups because they can get a real time feedback how high their uptime was and how much dmg they contributed by buffing the dps which most sups want to know how good they impacted to the group
As a pvp main how can i get into this 1v1 festttt
Best solution to raid anxiety - forget rushing for the most recent content and just play with prog parties. Half the time these kinds of parties clear faster than "exp" anyway
I dont even like seeing screenshots of the bible in private dms and such. Youd never know ive had one (hypothetically, if i was using one, this is not an admission of guilt) because ive not taken a screenshot or bragged about a parse or shit on someone for theirs in public or in private. If im on the mvp screen, thats good enough for me publically, my individual parse would be for me to get better.
I do see a lot of people who do that, use it for ammo or be toxic in general; and bans should be in order for those people. No need for that type of stuff imo
No1 is getting banned. If you enjoy keeping track of your own performance relative to others in the party then get meters.
mvp should compare you with average of your class instead of players in your raid.
Until they actually balance their classes properly the mvp screen is only used to bait people into maining a new class / upgrading gear
Unfortunately will never happen because it's on purpose why class balance is terrible in this game, specially new released classes. They purposely make every new class completely busted to tantalize people into creating a new character out of it because most of the game's population are a bunch of meta chasers.
DPS meter can make you play less greedy and more efficient. It allows you to properly determine which skills you need to prioritize and which ones you can drop from your rotation when playing safe.
As long as you don't use the information to harass and dog your teammates, I see no problem. The FF14 treatment
I use dps meter and its really helpful to figure out dps between engravings, max skill damage, avg skill damage and which skills per class do the most damage. As a support you can also see who's doing the most damage so you can focus your buffs around that player. Most of all you can find the imposters and flame, report and gatekeep them until they quit the game cap
i wont. and i wont talk to Stoopz anymore untill he officialy fights Pheons and stops cooperating with AGS untill they have a Solution for that Pheon issue.
Gold river, bless them man, is old fashioned, and stubborn. It's his game view sure, but the commmunity, who they said by the way they would try to listen to, is asking for a dps meter. At least try it, if it doesnt work remove it. Hell they freakin mess up every balance patch and the game is still fine. DPS meter has pros and cons and we can aegue all day. What we can't argue hypotheticals unless it is put into effect. You miss every shot you don't take, is smilegate missing out with no dps meter, with dps meter? Who knows, they haven't taken a shot and we will never know until then.
I got 24h ban for talking about meter in game with a pug, we were vague and cryptic about it but someone from the group knew what we talked about and reported us. Immediately after raid ended I got a 24h ban, reason was one of those in game report options that mentions botting. Never mentioned it in game since, been doing fine.
It was me, I reported you.
Maybe they can make gold distributed by your effectiveness in the raid. Then some overgeared players might want to invite lower ilvls. You did 2x the dmg, you get 2x the gold.
That's a great idea then I could get bussed and not even have to pay.
fine i subbed
To Stoopzz viewers who got banned for dps meter and are asking for help. Stop being toxic shit.
bible will be good so you can sniff out the roster 250 players that are bad at the game and actually let the good roster 100 with hands and isnt a senior citizen in to the lobby,
I have anxiety /: it’s why I stopped playing the game lol
The only real reason damage meters are bad for "gatekeeping" is because it gives people a reason to gatekeep giga whales who have max everything and still do z dps. In a world where everyone is using a damage meter and someones 1620 lvl 10 gems doing less than a 1580 TTH GS they'd prob get kicked. It would be a good thing for the average player but a huge monetary loss for asg lol
Wtf was that outro LOL om
it will be definitely a net negative for all players. toxic players will be more likely to lash out against people on the tail of the meter chart.
and some not so toxic players may have higher chance to blame people sitting on the bottom of the meter chart.
it will not help in current toxic environment.
it will eventually evolved into apply thaemine raid with screenshots of your damage meter to determine if you are capable of doing enough dps.
this will introduce the WOW problem to lost ark.
So should someone doing zdps not be called out? Someone doing no damage in a raid that requires multiple people should be illegal. The real toxicity is people joining raids/dungeons or any "endgame" content and not knowing the basics of their jobs. If the raid takes 8m dps to clear and theres a person doing 100k as a dps should they not be called out or blamed? without a meter you cant tell whos doing good or bad UNTIL you clear.
@@Tjzzzzz u definitely should not call out the person, you create a toxic environment that leaves a bad taste for other 7 people. this sort of behavior discourages people from engaging with the game.
if you are doing zdps in a raid, lower than 7 other whales/expert players whether because they have better gear or better skill, should they call u out and potentially kick u? how would you feel?
the right way should be explaining mech/pattern to the zdps guy and help him do more dps and finish the raid together.
by doing so, you help retained another new player for the game instead of driving them away.
Sure new players need help with that. but what if someone is doing zdps in MY party that has "know mechs" in the title. I'm not here to teach unless i want to teach. People are going to do zdps regardless of being new or a giga whale, same with toxicity it's going to be there with or without dps meters. Calling someone out is the start of helping someone, how can someone know they need to improve if no one tells them? As i said in my comment, someone joining a EXPERT party should do EXPERT dps and performance and if not, they SHOULD get called out and reflect on their gameplay. People joining and failing mechs and doing zdps are going to get more or less the same interactions because of the dps meter. We have it in FFXIV. It's the same shit outside of being able to whale any sort of gear advantage and guess what, There's not too many who publicly shaming people and if they do the get shunned themselves by the rest of the community. I don't see why lost ark can't do that as a community/dev team. Ban/exfoliate players who go out of their way to callout people for doing no damage on the meter and thats it, no constructive criticism, tips or helpful comments.
@@ceacaralex3994
toxic ppl will be an ass WITH or WITHOUT the dps meter, so its not really an argument to not have it. Issue is the coommunity, not the tool. TLDR: commuynity need to touch grass or have thicc skin. Sounds rought, but SG isnt the issue, the game isnt the issue, its each one of us that have so much mental dmg and autism within that we cant' having a normal human interaction on a coomers game.
a good game design would curb human worst side. lost ark did not work on curbing, instead, it double down on it, exploiting it as much as possible. MVP screen, showing players all stats in the lobby application. real money auction house. pheons.
@@TheAlkarin
dps meters in a p2win game is dumb as hell lmao one guy couzld have bettter gear lvl and outdmg by far which doesnt make sense . Only in inferno do ppl use dps meters caus its equalised and theres an expected dps u need to do to clear so u can weed out the noobs. in any other content its just ego boost and cringe
Everyone know a 1650 with full 10s is gonna double the dog of a 1600 either 7s. That's not why we want a meter.
a lot of games play for pennies, im playing bdo and its same shit
Anyone who doesnt have enough patience on a video game and rages on other people needs mental help assap.
I don't see how dps meter helps in any way... You know your ceiling (trixion), or you can train your ceiling. All you have to do in a raid is try to play to that ceiling. Some classes make it very easy for you to play there like aeromancer (with lots of swift/movement/easy rotations), others have aspects that lower your ceiling uptime, like back atk, self buff skills you need to land etc.
In an actual raid you know exactly when you miss your red dust (berserker self buff) or perfect swing hits the side and that's what is lowering your dps. I don't see how dps meter would help with any of that.. What you need is to watch the boss and not your cooldowns and concentrate more on the game.
To use meter as a tool you can't really compare it to trixion parses. Trixion parses should only be used within a vacuum to analyze theoretical settings, not realistic ones. Like is it possibly to fit X skills into a red dust window. If your red dust window has a .3 second window, then rolling to dodge an attack can make one skill miss. In order to properly use meter to improve your performance I'd look at your synergy/buff uptimes (like red dust, death strike, etc.) to ensure that you are maintaining your buffs, looking at your average CPM (Cast Per Minute) and HPM (Hits Per Minute) etc., and only to that one raid. For my Zerker I was trying to do the giga tryhard rotation and I noticed that my DPS was dropping because I kept having attacks not be part of the red dust window. I switched back to one of the easier ones and my DPS improved. It can be hard to compare different gates to each other because of how they flow for each class. For example, G1 Akkan vs G3 Akkan is a big show of this. The big spec burst classes just pop off in the first half of G3 because of all the time they get to build meter and then the sup will generally use identity + dark bomb. Actually doing this is time consuming and probably more than what most people could be bothered to do but this is what I've done before.
Also, when I choose what gems to upgrade, I go based off of my meter performances, not the community guide parses. I'd rather upgrade based on how I perform, not on what is optimal in a theoretical setting.
Personally, in most pugs, I hide the meter window because, like you said, you need to watch the boss and concentrate on the game, not try to dmg goblino. I don't think I've ever seen a raid where everyone is alive and they still hit enrage due to a lack of dmg - it's always because someone died. I'll look at the meter after the gate is over to see how I did and review anything if needed. When I'm with my static/friends, I'll have it up because we are all trying to compete with each other and we use it to motivate each other.
Ironically, the dps meter probably offers the best info for supports. Sup buff uptime is a massive part of damage. It's pretty interesting to see the uptime numbers of the sup for a spec dps vs swift dps. Most sups can keep the buffs up during easy windows, where spec classes burst, but you can see it drop off in harder damage patterns where the swift classes should still be doing dmg.
Raw information is always way better than guessing, especially in an MMO. It's true that as a good and/or experienced player, you tend to build strong intuitions on your performance, but intuition only gets you so far. But what if you're not a good player yet, and you don't have those intuitions?
If you've ever used the community guides for this game, new classes don't have their DPS distributions filled in UNTIL they arrive in the West, and for ANY class's DPS distribution, the only easy way you get this information is by running meter. Koreans can tell you generally which skills to prioritize and which does more, but there's no way they can tell you "X skill does Y% of your damage" and have it be as accurate as running it through the meter.
Also, the ceiling argument is very silly, because certain builds parse horribly in Trixion, Igniter Sorc's parse would have you believe they are among the worst classes in the game, Reflux parses much higher. Also, Control Glaivier parses higher than Pinnacle, and First Intention Wardancer parses higher than Eso, but in actual raids, the spec builds will almost always outshine. Trixion is for theoretical situations and testing variations on your build/rotation. You cannot use it to accurately assess your damage or "ceiling," even as many Koreans falsely believe this to be true.
Stoopz fell off a rainbow recently or somethin?
25:40 That... That's it, its that. ''Oh but with meter i can improve and be a better'' shut the hell up you know that's bs. If you're playing well you can feel it and your reward is the content is completed and you're alive, or whatever subjective shiet you want but 25:40 is an actual tangible factual issue.
Bring the DPS meter in game and you'll find yourself a bunch of egotistical annoying monkeys everywhere where all they care about is numbers while bringing in skills from the trash
Stoopz unban support 😂
Hello 👋
I agree with Jukwol that the bible is pretty neutral, it's just likely that we'll see more people using them negatively more than not.
My take on the MVP screen is that it's a waste of time. I do like to see how well I did if I can, but if you're not a bozo, you kind of know if you did bad or not. You also could just get some one way over-geared for the content. Why I say it's a waste of time is just that it is. Instead of moving on to the next gate sooner, you gotta wait for the MVP screen. Instead of being able to claim your guardian souls and then leave, you also get interrupted by the MVP screen. Instead of getting to the auction at the end of a raid, oh wait, time for MVP screen first!
i love you stoopzz. dps meters are needed even for babies. we also need a "patchwork" style simbot to go with it to make sure we're hitting what we should on rotations
no sub