@@frankieconcepcion7860 Kinda like sharks then - if they stop swimming, water stops flowing over their gills so they can't respire and they die. (actually I reread your comment and it's not really the same thing, but it's a cool shark fact so I'm leaving it here)
I think there is a limit, BUT: - You will never reach it because it requires 100% optimization of your life in regards to hypertrophy - You will never know what your own natural limit is, even if you were to theoretically reach it, you would never know that you were at your limit
The second point is also paradoxical in a sense. If you know that you are at your limit then you have tried everything at your disposal to maximize your potential. But if you've tried everything then you don't have enough time to allocate to what works best for a long enough time to reach your potential.
I agree factually... but maybe disagree with the sentiment? With basic competency and consistency over enough time, you can get close enough to your personal limit that further optimisation would only make a trivial difference--unless you're in elite competition where small differences matter. Any bro who isn't very sick or starved can do the basics and get very close to his limit within 15 years. Further tweaks ain't going to transform a Jeremy Ethier into a Geoff. Geoff works hard & smart, yeah--so do I, so do a lot of people, and their results are all across the spectrum. He is genetically blessed for hypertrophy. The fact he was a skinny teen and didn't blow up in his first lifting years doesn't say shit to disprove that. I like a lot about these 'noble natty' channels, but they do sell a dream that if only I do XYZ, I might achieve a certain kind of result. But fact is, only a small proportion of people are natural shot-putters, and a larger proportion of people are natural badminton players...
@@FrogmortonHotchkiss That's a very valid point, you do reach a point where it can be incredibly hard to get even marginal gains. However, the point of discussion is about a limit. It is pretty much up to the lifter if they think those trivial gains are worth it. That point of trivial gains is very different for everybody, and even depends on their sport of choice. So basically instead of "I CAN'T get any bigger/better", the mindset is "Do I WANT to put in the effort to keep getting bigger/better?". That puts the ball in your court and gives you the power in the situation, rather than just giving up and blaming the universe for your lack of gains. This is really important because you might decide to keep going, then actually get more gains than you thought would. If you had the mindset that you literally can't get bigger, you may not have put in the effort to get those gains. Mindset is everything in the gym. I would also just generally question a person's training methodology. You can get jacked when you're just screwing around and working hard, but nothing beats a program that is optimized for you based on your past training and current goals. On your point about Jeremy Either, based on what I've seen of his training, I think there is room for improvement lol.
I'm 5' 9 and a 60 year old lawyer. I just got my chest to 50 and my arms 17.5 (with pump) inches. I'm really prioritizing arms trying to get to 18, with 7 inch wrists. I am doing incline curls with 50s and spreader bar tricep extensions and overhead cable extensions FOREVER. I am busy as hell. Find the time to grind out nasty sets and keep growing. Don't sell yourself short.
Woah WTF. Jacked and stacked - not just your case file, but your fizeek! Dang, bro! I'd hire you in a heartbeat without even looking into your track record! 😎 I wanna be that swole when I'm 60. I'm 22 right now and nowhere near as jacked as you. About 43 inch chest and unfortunately only 14-14.5" arms (cold, but flexed)
As a married man with a son, a cat and financial responsibilities, I can guarantee my time at the gym is not affected. Specially if you have a supportive partner. All you have to do is sacrifice some TV, gaming or kill time leisure to focus on fitness.
IDK. When I was 24,25 I could spent 2 hours a day at the gym. If I did that now I'd be taking more time away from kids and wife than I'm OK with--particularly if I want to do other stuff in any measure (hike, read, listen to music). These days it's about an hour, to maybe 90 minutes, 4x a week. Which is still enough to get some decent results!
@@peamutbubber Up until the intermediate level I think it is indeed about fitness or health. Being advance or higher is when bodybuilding gets to be detrimental to our health.
Omfg lol I’m a Dad I’ve gotta muster the strength…In all honesty I will say; my children are the reason I started lifting a few years ago. Always wanted to build muscle in college and Army but was too poor and made too many excuses not to. Mah boys grizzly scream at me while I do pull-ups and it’s scary af but it works. Third bulk commenced this week using your Ravage program, Geoff. Slowly but surely Resurrecting my Gains after a summer of maintenance.
Speaking about injuries, it is the truth. I am almost 46, been lifting consistently since I was 17 (some before that, but not consistent). The biggest roadblocks I have are injuries. Not listening to my body, not taking time to deload and ramp back up. Those things will contribute to injuries. Also when cutting and still lifting hard, and not listening to your body give you warnings about jacking something up. The best thing you can do is LISTEN to your body, it will let you know when you are compromising something. You do a lift or a rep and you feel like "oh, something was off on that one compared to other times." That is cue! Don't ignore it.
I have 4 kids. Can confirm, kids kill gains. But... I've now got my kids on my side cheering me on. They will help me tape my arms and are very excited too when I hit goals. So I guess I'll keep them for now.
Hi, been watching you for a bit, I love this video about natural limit. I'm 57, been training 35+ yrs. I started out 5'11" 160 to now 5'9" 247 19" biceps About 20% body fat. FFMI 29.5. I was natural till last yr. I got on TRT because my Testosterone was about 300 and my free floating test was 35. I had testicle cancer 21yrs ago and they removed one. I was so tired I was drinking 6 cups of coffee just to function every day. TRT only helped a tiny bit mostly with energy. I've always been strong. I'm still making gains! I believe there is no limit. Rock on
Building muscle takes a looot of time. I'm training since 10 years. When u first start u see changes within months... later on in your journey it takes years for some solid progress. but you can still build a lot when u stay consistent and give it the time it needs. There is still more room for growth even as a natural
I know you don't have kids (...yet?), but you should do a vid about kids & lifting, addressing topics like 4:19 the lack of protein in kiddo snacks. Great stuff as always, Geoff!
Every natural has their own genetic limit. Its not a fixed number limit thats the same for everyone. You may never actually get there but it exists. Even approaching this "limit" requires insane dedication and work ethic for 5-10 years and so its a moot point really because most people will never get there anyway. Saying theres no point where natural gains will stop is definitley untrue. That doesnt mean you should train as if there is a limit because that way youll never get as close to your max as possible as you are self limiting. Reality is reality though. Seeing all the videos trying to debunk a natural limit is eye rolling for me at this point but i think you did a really good job with this one GVS and i agree with your points and you definitley did acknowledge the points i made as well so very solid video
As a Dad of two young boys, I can definitely confirm that yes having kids will KILL your gains. But nothing, absolutely nothing in this life compares to seeing my boys grow. I give everything to them and more.
Because of social media and a lot of TH-camrs ; I lost a lot of hope for my natural potential. At one point, I thought that I reached it 4 years into my training. But, you gave me so much hope last year. Because of that, I progressed so much with my bulk. Thank you.
If you're looking for great resources for deeper info on hypertrophy training, check out my books below! Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates) www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts) www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters) www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Yo Geoffrey!, you keep me motivated to keep lifting as a natural! Quick Question, could you possibly do a video on Creatine & Hair Loss? I notice most youtube fitness channels are rather myopic or dismissive (due to being affiliates with supplement companies) when it comes to this topic. Despite this being the "most studied supplement" with endless studies, no one is willing to run a study to end this so called "myth" of hair loss/DHT increasing, when there are thousands upon thousands of anecdotal evidence on Reddit and youtube comments. I know you hate fearmongering, but it would be awesome if you could shine some light on this topic in a video! Thanks for all the great info you provide to your viewers! @GVS
First time watching your channel,found you from a Quora post about training the back. You seem pretty chill. Looking forward to binging on some videos. Cheers!
I think someone should compare themself to the average person under the condition that they started as a average person. Always compare yourself to yourself, live the journey and never forget where you came from.
Geoff is on the money. Guys usually quit, before even getting close to eating and training correctly. Also something i thought about is once you've kinda built a somewhat impressive physique, probably college years.. well women and drinking and maybe more come into play... kinda like the other pursuits of kids and jobs and money... just live train hard eat as best you can... always set a goal of pr or something so you can stay focused... otherwise you just go workout but not with the focus like he talks about My dad benched 300+ at 57 after starting at 47. I think he could do 165 when he started...
"All that's keeping me from being a nobody is that dumbbell. If I can't lift it, I'm nothing." This is a line from the Louis Cyr movie. Although fictional, it says a lot. Another gem of a video.
I do think that there is a limit for the average gym goer that has a job and other responsibilities, as you don't eat perfectly, you don't sleep perfectly and sometimes you even miss a day of training. So setting a good standard for the average person to strive for and then maintain without having to do everything perfectly is a very good thing IMO.
Stay consistent for many years and you'll progress. Natties have a much longer shelf life than enhanced. Stop listening to guys who hopped on sazule in their early 20s when they didn't know how to train and recover, burnt themselves out, and then give advice on what's naturally achievable before they've even reached age 30. I'm 38 right now and feel like I'm just now understanding what my body needs to both grow and perform. I thought I was stalled out 5 years ago, and 5 years before that, and so on. Here's what happens when most guys reach their 30s: marriage, kids, job, etc. take precedence over the gym, and self care goes out the window. I have plenty of friends at the gym who are a few years younger who just want to "maintain", and by training with no intensity they start to regress and blame their age. I think this is common in guys who were college athletes and maybe saw training as a job that they didn't enjoy. A lot of people lie to themselves about how busy they actually are. As you said, it's about priorities.
No matter what you do time will get you in the end bro. The gains will stop eventually and then you will slowly start to regress. Our bodies weren't meant to be forever.
The longer I train the more unsure I become of what a realistic limit is, Ive been dedicated training for 8 years and you would figure I had reached my limit but I still make break throughs to this day, like just this month alone I threw out all my back exercises and just started doing 150 slow pullups of different variations and it has absolutely made a difference in my back like I havent had in years
Lots of bodybuilders hamstring (pun intended) themselves by staying too lean too often. In terms of pure muscle building, giga-bulkers like elite strongmen and powerlifters often blow bodybuilders out of the water. For what it's worth, sumo wrestlers, the ultimate giga-bulkers, routinely have FFMIs above 30, with the biggest guys hitting FFMIs of 35+.
@@kren4449 Interestingly, sumo wrestlers aren't actually as fat as you might think. In the study I was looking at (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28548340/) their mean bodyfat percentage was 26%, which is fat but not outrageous. Even the biggest guy was only 33%.
Food! Eating more is by far the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around. I don't like looking chubbier than I already am. Once day before I stop training, it has only been a couple of years, I will get eat more. I am 52 however, so that day better come sooner than later.
I got injured when I was 14... I did reverse push ups during a warm up to a swim, our trainer told us to do 20 reps, and so I did and got a solar plexus injury, it hurt me to bring my arms together for a couple of weeks. I train like an old man, not going to failure, just close enough on my push ups, dips, bench press.
I've returned to the intermediate state 3 times over my training career. Its been about 4 years. Why? I kept getting injured. Ive torn literally 9 separate areas in my body. Im way smarter than I was before but man its not worth going crazy. The diminishing returns I got from going overboard were never worth getting injured and losing tons of progress that then took me a even longer to get back. Had I never fucked up and got myself hurt Id be so much further. Its something I think of often. Gotta be smarter, gotta listen to your body, gotta do better. Some guys, like myself, are in it for the long haul but take it too far. Its 100% ok to hold yourself back if it means you are able to be consistent. Some people need to be pushed to train hard, others need to be held back so they dont go to far.
Injuries are our biggest enemy. 3 months ago I pulled something in my chest, because I had the idea to test how many dips I can do and I already did chest and shoulders that day. Well that was a dumb idea, it took 2 months to get pain free.
As a father and someone who does manual labor I can say I still make great gains. But it does require extra effort and you are going to miss a day here and there. Mainly getting up very early in the morning and training is the switch I had to make.
Yeah I'm a dad and I work 65 hours per week at a physical job. I still get to the gym after or before work and then Sunday morning. So I don't care to hear other people's excuses
Unfortunately i got most of my injuries even before i started wheighlifting. I played Basketball and then competed in Taekwondo for 8 years before i started wheiglifting. Mobility training takes a lot of my time, it's like 60% of the free time lifting and 40% of the time doing mobility. With that said: it helped me very much to understand that my limit is different than others. It's about reaching the maximum i can with what i have. I couldn't do deep squats with 1/4 of my wheing when i started, now i can do it with 1.25x my wheight. Just collect the small victories and aim to improve.
Awesome video, and very inspirational! I'm in the middle of a bulk right now. Compared to last year's bulk, I'm as fluffy at 205lbs, as I was last year at 190lbs. Exciting stuff.
Education is the key. I think if someone goes back and forth between muscle building and tendon strenth training with the proper nutrition could get a natural Ronnie Coleman. Though you may have to live in a gym/nutrional lab, once you plateau in muscle growth, you then switch to tendon strength/flexibility, now you can load your muscle with more weight, plateau again, revert back to tendon training and so on for 50 years. Tendon training is the tough part and it takes a long time to transform your tendons, but is the key to easily pass those muscle growth plateaus you reach.
Absolutely love the breakdown here. Some of these standards are so arbitrary. We know so much in terms of health and fitness, but we’re always learning more 💪
Ive noticed on youtube over the years so many people seem to think that you can reach your natural limit in a few years just by training and eating right lol. I realised most people get past their first year of newbie gains then past that once progress slows down they hit their first major plateau once they get big and relatively lean and after only a few years call it their genetic limit. Im pretty sure I hit mine in my 20's, although wont ever truly know as I stopped lifting for ten years around 27 years old, but lifting from 15/15 to 27 years old In those final 5 or so years I hit a 'limit' a few times. ie I had already got really big but just stalled and hit a wall. I found you have to really be in tune with your body to recognise when to change things and what and how to change things. it can be frustrating at that stage fine tuning things as what works best at one time wont at another and different things are more optimal at different times. there's no set rule, you just have to find what works to break through that plateau and start slowly making more gains. Back then I genuinely didn't believe in a natural limit. I used to read muscle and fitness and flex and see jay cutler, lee preist, kevin levrone etc and Id convince myself I could get somewhere near that size naturally and thats how I trained with that determination. I got way bigger than I ever thought possible and was accused constantly of being on steroids even by training partners and people who were close to me refused to believe I wasn't on gear. Other people I knew who were on gear would get genuinely angry because they wold tell me im lying as "100% you're on steroids as you cannot be that big naturally"
Depends on how you see it. There is a natural limit to some extent ....but not if you live for 500 years. But lets be serious some people have been training hard and progressive for like 50 years and the last 40 they have gained 1kg mayby.
Yeh but but by the same token some many people fall into a permanent comfort zone when they train for long enough, which isn't really indicative of a true physical limit.
@@questionableethnicity2268stole the words out of my mouth. That was going to be my reply, majority of people you meet in the gym who are in good shape aren't totally trying to put in the effort to surpass where they got to years ago. I know plenty who want to maintain, I'll never understand it myself but on that front those are the people who put on maybe 5 to 10 lb of muscle across 30 years and never particularly put more on.
As I see it, injury is a 2-fold gain killer: obvious one: keeps you away from the gym for a certain period, during which you'll inevitably lose muscle (at least in your injured area); hidden one: the psychological inhibiting of training hard, fearing you'll get injured again
Good stuff, great information and the jokes and humor are on point and make your content FAR more fun and interesting than most other fitness educators/influencers. Kids will kill your gainz! :)
It's like meter can be devided in infinet peaces how ever there is a point of sharp denineshing return that gets almost exponential. Harsh trouth. But u can look amazing as a natty!
There's definitely a natural limit, else we'd all take 5-6 cycles and maintain that size. However the moto alone that there's no natty limit is powerful, especially for the younger generations now that need the natty hope in order to keep them of gear more than ever.
@@proximacentauri3627 That's the exact point, there is a natural limit predicated by hormone levels you can only get so big with your individual genetic factors, myostatin, testosterone, bone structure etc. Also when you jump off gear your androgen receptors actually become more sensitive hence why cycles typically only go for about 16-20 weeks.
Hey GVS, have you ever considered releasing your books in a paperback format? It think Hersovyac has talked a bit about self-publishing lately. I think there would be a lot of people interested in getting physical copies. As for the video: while I think Jeff Nippard gives a lot of quality information for free, and his stuff is just plainly entertaining to watch due to high production value, he seems like a person who loves to be right and even if he is not attacking the opposing worldview straight and don't participate in drama much, he is rather close-minded and dosen't look kindly on anything that isn't the general consensus.
It’s just toxic to put a limit on people like he does. People watch him and have been training 2 years and are like “I reached muh limit”. Then you watch guys like GVS, BOM, Hersovyac, and Alex to cleanse your palate of that garbage.
Also keep in mind that Steve Reeves also contracted malaria while serving our country overseas. He got very sick and lost good weight. He recovered of course but I have to imagine the setback may have kept him from training as continuous as he would have liked.
I am a Powerbuilder, squatting and deadlifting 300 kg raw and natural but I feel like being a beginner still lol no limits in sight soon. My goal is to squat & deadllift over 400 kg raw and squatting 500kg equipped. Never injured myself so far instead one time on purpose to see how I regenerate from that on how bad training is after that. So I tore my abdomen muscles from doing a 400 kg 18 inch deadlift ^^ But I am able to train around that very nicely so far choosing higher reps and using a belt. More problematic are my hip joints atm forcing me to work more in the 5-12 rep range and for now not doing pure strength focused 1-3 reps with the hip dominant lifts. arms are at 46 cm without pump so far but I just focused on strength until now with 45 kg dumbbell curl max. I train beyond fatigue and tiredness like a maniac (learned that from my long distance running in the past), most of the time 4-5 hours a day 5-6 times a week but I take long breaks iof 10-15 minutes in between very heavy sets and I need 5-6 warm up sets to get to the really heav sets. If a muscle is failing I just switch the eercise and train it even further, after that choosing just another exercise until everything is squeezed out of it ^^ Takes a long time. I eat everything in my way, 6000 kcal, sometimes less, sometimes even up to 10.000 or more and everything vegan. I have no traning-log but somehow I do remember everything from the last training and also frome some training sessions before. Also I just "feel" what weight and RPE to use to grow. In my head I also keep track in which ~8 week block I am.
My home gym and using meal prep companies has saved me from these little gains stealing goblins aka my young children. It is possible Dads it just takes extra thought and effort. The sleep part is the only variable where you have little control over, but you just have to focus on controlling what you can control.
14:05 what the heck man haha, your can see the striations so clearly. What fat percentage would you be at there roughly? Btw my sternum is hurting just looking at you maxing out on dips
The question is so unbelievably stupid. Obviously there is a natural limit. If there was no natural limit, then that would mean that not only can naturals surpass steroid users in terms of size and strength - but there would be no limit to how big and strong people could be. Its beyond ridiculous and meaningless. Obviously there is a natural limit. Do we know exactly what that is on average, or for any given individual? No. But that obviously doesn't mean it "doesn't exist".
I am an old man (53) so I know your advice to train like an old man is solid. I have continued to add muscle even at my ripe old age by going close to failure but not killing myself.
You really think 53 is old? I'm 51 and bigger and stronger than I have ever been, and I've been hitting it hard and heavy at the gym for 30 years. Making great gains and hitting quite a few big all time PR's in the last couple of years.
I have an interesting topic, what do u think of the recent recommendations that if ur going to failure u only do 1-2sets per exercise no matter the exercise and that further increases per exercise have worst stimulus to fatigue ratio as in ur better off just doing another exercise to hit the muscle from a different angle instead of adding more sets to the same exercise. How do u go about this recommendation. and that on avg most people will responde best to 8-12 sets to failure per muscle group per week. is that even accurate? That what seems to be the high intensity science based guys nowadays. Just thought Would be an interesting topic that u might consider talking about
Haven't you noticed that videos like these always attract a specific type of person? There are these guys who seem personally offended at anyone even mildly critiquing the idea of a natural limit, almost as if it was like a serious political or religious belief they hold? It's really weird imho.
Just wanted to add: I have a friend that wants to build muscle in a short amount of time, but doesn’t track his training. He says oh it’s all “ mental “. Aka he doesn’t have a actual training program and just spinning his wheels. I’m sure there is a lot more people like him that go to your average commercial gym. Maybe there is a limit but most don’t come even close to reaching it in their life time.
There are plenty of people who train without tracking and without a set program who have made gains for years. Tracking is not nedded if you can remember your working sets, have a good exercise selection . Most people who say you absolutely have to track to overload have way to high exercise selection, a bad memory and or like the data.
@@Waywardbiscuit yeah but the problem is people don’t have a good exercise selection. If a majority of people could do that and get away with it. I don’t think all the conversations about programming and genetic potential would be in existence.
@@UnbearabIe Thats a issue with their selection not a issue with not tracking. Just because your selection is bad doesnt then mean tracking is needed for everyone. Many like GVS make statements like you 100% have to track to make gains or you arent serious about training if you dont track or have a set program. Which is 100% bull. Maybe they say it because they are pushing things like bootcamp.
I know a ton of kids my age in high school who go to my commercial gym who just spend their entire time there spinning their wheels not tracking anything. When you don’t know how to push yourself in the gym properly you need to track. Advanced people know how to push themselves so not tracking can work for them a lot of the time.
Are there diminishing returns to gains? Yes. Should that stop you? Fuck no. Also people give up way too quickly, train for 10 years correctly and you'll be surprised at how good your genetics were all along. This is a game of patience and selling yourself short is the quickest way to not get the body you dream of.
Hey I have a question regarding the Ronnie Coleman thing. What if it’s actually possible to look like Ronnie Coleman naturally it’s just something we’d never reach due to lack of time? Imagine if you lifted at your peak for 300 years maybe then you could look like Ronnie maybe? What do you think?
Only limit I'll concede is time. We run out of it at some point.
Kinda depressing tbh
@@MoarteaLuniiwhy?
@@joojotinDeath is depressing (especially if you're not religious)
Hey Jason you are not bold)
Well hormones also. Unless your doctor hooks you up.
There's no question that a natural limit exists -- it's called death. Watching your progress over the past four years has been inspirational.
best take on this. We stop when we die. We slow down as we get old.
There's also a natural limit called "being a lazy fuck & making excuses." Don't forget that one as well
@@frankieconcepcion7860 Kinda like sharks then - if they stop swimming, water stops flowing over their gills so they can't respire and they die. (actually I reread your comment and it's not really the same thing, but it's a cool shark fact so I'm leaving it here)
Adrenaline can make women lift cars. We are capable of becoming hulks, but our bones would likely break doing so.
@@dansmith1661 I think you are referring to Bruce Banner's research with gamma radiation.
The kids joke was gold 😂
Hey Jason you are not bold).
I feel personally attacked o.o
the joke was gold in most cases
Anakin enters the room
@josephahn601
Heracles enters the room.
I think there is a limit, BUT:
- You will never reach it because it requires 100% optimization of your life in regards to hypertrophy
- You will never know what your own natural limit is, even if you were to theoretically reach it, you would never know that you were at your limit
The second point is also paradoxical in a sense. If you know that you are at your limit then you have tried everything at your disposal to maximize your potential. But if you've tried everything then you don't have enough time to allocate to what works best for a long enough time to reach your potential.
Wrong. No limit. That mindset will keep you from progressing l
@@RoseAesthetics this mindset promotes the idea that worrying about a limit at all is a waste of time to even think about
I agree factually... but maybe disagree with the sentiment? With basic competency and consistency over enough time, you can get close enough to your personal limit that further optimisation would only make a trivial difference--unless you're in elite competition where small differences matter. Any bro who isn't very sick or starved can do the basics and get very close to his limit within 15 years. Further tweaks ain't going to transform a Jeremy Ethier into a Geoff. Geoff works hard & smart, yeah--so do I, so do a lot of people, and their results are all across the spectrum. He is genetically blessed for hypertrophy. The fact he was a skinny teen and didn't blow up in his first lifting years doesn't say shit to disprove that.
I like a lot about these 'noble natty' channels, but they do sell a dream that if only I do XYZ, I might achieve a certain kind of result. But fact is, only a small proportion of people are natural shot-putters, and a larger proportion of people are natural badminton players...
@@FrogmortonHotchkiss That's a very valid point, you do reach a point where it can be incredibly hard to get even marginal gains. However, the point of discussion is about a limit. It is pretty much up to the lifter if they think those trivial gains are worth it. That point of trivial gains is very different for everybody, and even depends on their sport of choice.
So basically instead of "I CAN'T get any bigger/better", the mindset is "Do I WANT to put in the effort to keep getting bigger/better?". That puts the ball in your court and gives you the power in the situation, rather than just giving up and blaming the universe for your lack of gains. This is really important because you might decide to keep going, then actually get more gains than you thought would. If you had the mindset that you literally can't get bigger, you may not have put in the effort to get those gains. Mindset is everything in the gym.
I would also just generally question a person's training methodology. You can get jacked when you're just screwing around and working hard, but nothing beats a program that is optimized for you based on your past training and current goals. On your point about Jeremy Either, based on what I've seen of his training, I think there is room for improvement lol.
I'm 5' 9 and a 60 year old lawyer. I just got my chest to 50 and my arms 17.5 (with pump) inches. I'm really prioritizing arms trying to get to 18, with 7 inch wrists. I am doing incline curls with 50s and spreader bar tricep extensions and overhead cable extensions FOREVER. I am busy as hell. Find the time to grind out nasty sets and keep growing. Don't sell yourself short.
good shit man, i strive to be as well off and fit as you one day
54 year old lawyer with 17.5 inch arms at 5 ft 8 checking in. Respect to you Sir💪🏼
Woah WTF. Jacked and stacked - not just your case file, but your fizeek! Dang, bro! I'd hire you in a heartbeat without even looking into your track record! 😎 I wanna be that swole when I'm 60. I'm 22 right now and nowhere near as jacked as you. About 43 inch chest and unfortunately only 14-14.5" arms (cold, but flexed)
Try heavy ass Olympic barbell curls slow return get to 135 for 8 guaranteed your arms will hit 18
17.5" on 7" wrists is an epic proportion. All you need to go with it are 14" forearms.
Having children is catabolic. New Athlean X video: KIDS ARE KILLING YOUR GAINS
Until they are in their teens. Then they force you to work out, thus fueling gains.
As a married man with a son, a cat and financial responsibilities, I can guarantee my time at the gym is not affected. Specially if you have a supportive partner. All you have to do is sacrifice some TV, gaming or kill time leisure to focus on fitness.
Bodybuilding is art not fitness or health
@@peamutbubberstrongly agree with you! It’s not fitness
IDK. When I was 24,25 I could spent 2 hours a day at the gym. If I did that now I'd be taking more time away from kids and wife than I'm OK with--particularly if I want to do other stuff in any measure (hike, read, listen to music).
These days it's about an hour, to maybe 90 minutes, 4x a week. Which is still enough to get some decent results!
@@peamutbubber Up until the intermediate level I think it is indeed about fitness or health. Being advance or higher is when bodybuilding gets to be detrimental to our health.
Omfg lol I’m a Dad I’ve gotta muster the strength…In all honesty I will say; my children are the reason I started lifting a few years ago. Always wanted to build muscle in college and Army but was too poor and made too many excuses not to. Mah boys grizzly scream at me while I do pull-ups and it’s scary af but it works. Third bulk commenced this week using your Ravage program, Geoff. Slowly but surely Resurrecting my Gains after a summer of maintenance.
BASED DAD
@@ayda2876 I like it when you call me Big Papa…
@@recreationalliftingyous a true playa
There is a natural limit. And that's totally fine, it shouldn't really be a concern for anyone. And it depends on too many variables, anyway
This is the most motivating video ever
Speaking about injuries, it is the truth. I am almost 46, been lifting consistently since I was 17 (some before that, but not consistent). The biggest roadblocks I have are injuries. Not listening to my body, not taking time to deload and ramp back up. Those things will contribute to injuries. Also when cutting and still lifting hard, and not listening to your body give you warnings about jacking something up. The best thing you can do is LISTEN to your body, it will let you know when you are compromising something. You do a lift or a rep and you feel like "oh, something was off on that one compared to other times." That is cue! Don't ignore it.
I have 4 kids. Can confirm, kids kill gains. But... I've now got my kids on my side cheering me on. They will help me tape my arms and are very excited too when I hit goals.
So I guess I'll keep them for now.
4 sounds brutal...i can say with two its ok, not really a problem to get 3x week 2h workout in
Hi, been watching you for a bit, I love this video about natural limit. I'm 57, been training 35+ yrs. I started out 5'11" 160 to now 5'9" 247 19" biceps About 20% body fat. FFMI 29.5. I was natural till last yr. I got on TRT because my Testosterone was about 300 and my free floating test was 35. I had testicle cancer 21yrs ago and they removed one. I was so tired I was drinking 6 cups of coffee just to function every day. TRT only helped a tiny bit mostly with energy. I've always been strong. I'm still making gains! I believe there is no limit.
Rock on
Building muscle takes a looot of time. I'm training since 10 years. When u first start u see changes within months... later on in your journey it takes years for some solid progress. but you can still build a lot when u stay consistent and give it the time it needs. There is still more room for growth even as a natural
If you have below average muscularity after 10 years of training, you're doing something very wrong
I know you don't have kids (...yet?), but you should do a vid about kids & lifting, addressing topics like 4:19 the lack of protein in kiddo snacks. Great stuff as always, Geoff!
I’m so glad Geoff has the energy to be funny again, this one was hilarious
Every natural has their own genetic limit. Its not a fixed number limit thats the same for everyone. You may never actually get there but it exists. Even approaching this "limit" requires insane dedication and work ethic for 5-10 years and so its a moot point really because most people will never get there anyway. Saying theres no point where natural gains will stop is definitley untrue. That doesnt mean you should train as if there is a limit because that way youll never get as close to your max as possible as you are self limiting. Reality is reality though. Seeing all the videos trying to debunk a natural limit is eye rolling for me at this point but i think you did a really good job with this one GVS and i agree with your points and you definitley did acknowledge the points i made as well so very solid video
As a Dad of two young boys, I can definitely confirm that yes having kids will KILL your gains.
But nothing, absolutely nothing in this life compares to seeing my boys grow.
I give everything to them and more.
Not necessarily.
Because of social media and a lot of TH-camrs ; I lost a lot of hope for my natural potential.
At one point, I thought that I reached it 4 years into my training.
But, you gave me so much hope last year. Because of that, I progressed so much with my bulk.
Thank you.
@prettyBoyIncel ur a literal n4zi dawg
If you're looking for great resources for deeper info on hypertrophy training, check out my books below!
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Yo Geoffrey!, you keep me motivated to keep lifting as a natural! Quick Question, could you possibly do a video on Creatine & Hair Loss? I notice most youtube fitness channels are rather myopic or dismissive (due to being affiliates with supplement companies) when it comes to this topic. Despite this being the "most studied supplement" with endless studies, no one is willing to run a study to end this so called "myth" of hair loss/DHT increasing, when there are thousands upon thousands of anecdotal evidence on Reddit and youtube comments. I know you hate fearmongering, but it would be awesome if you could shine some light on this topic in a video! Thanks for all the great info you provide to your viewers! @GVS
My bodies functionality with strength matters most for me. Keep moving till you can't.
First time watching your channel,found you from a Quora post about training the back. You seem pretty chill. Looking forward to binging on some videos. Cheers!
The intensity on the dips... Wow
I think someone should compare themself to the average person under the condition that they started as a average person. Always compare yourself to yourself, live the journey and never forget where you came from.
Geoff is on the money. Guys usually quit, before even getting close to eating and training correctly. Also something i thought about is once you've kinda built a somewhat impressive physique, probably college years.. well women and drinking and maybe more come into play... kinda like the other pursuits of kids and jobs and money... just live train hard eat as best you can... always set a goal of pr or something so you can stay focused... otherwise you just go workout but not with the focus like he talks about
My dad benched 300+ at 57 after starting at 47. I think he could do 165 when he started...
"All that's keeping me from being a nobody is that dumbbell. If I can't lift it, I'm nothing."
This is a line from the Louis Cyr movie. Although fictional, it says a lot.
Another gem of a video.
Sounds like mental illness to me.
I do think that there is a limit for the average gym goer that has a job and other responsibilities, as you don't eat perfectly, you don't sleep perfectly and sometimes you even miss a day of training.
So setting a good standard for the average person to strive for and then maintain without having to do everything perfectly is a very good thing IMO.
hey man i was feeling pretty bad today but i really appreciate you uploading 😁
3:52 I can already hear Athlean-X saying "Having KIDS are KILLING your GAINS!!!"
Stay consistent for many years and you'll progress. Natties have a much longer shelf life than enhanced. Stop listening to guys who hopped on sazule in their early 20s when they didn't know how to train and recover, burnt themselves out, and then give advice on what's naturally achievable before they've even reached age 30.
I'm 38 right now and feel like I'm just now understanding what my body needs to both grow and perform. I thought I was stalled out 5 years ago, and 5 years before that, and so on.
Here's what happens when most guys reach their 30s: marriage, kids, job, etc. take precedence over the gym, and self care goes out the window. I have plenty of friends at the gym who are a few years younger who just want to "maintain", and by training with no intensity they start to regress and blame their age. I think this is common in guys who were college athletes and maybe saw training as a job that they didn't enjoy. A lot of people lie to themselves about how busy they actually are. As you said, it's about priorities.
No matter what you do time will get you in the end bro. The gains will stop eventually and then you will slowly start to regress. Our bodies weren't meant to be forever.
It’s all in how we allocate our resources, including time, as a reflection of our priorities.
You are my hero
The longer I train the more unsure I become of what a realistic limit is, Ive been dedicated training for 8 years and you would figure I had reached my limit but I still make break throughs to this day, like just this month alone I threw out all my back exercises and just started doing 150 slow pullups of different variations and it has absolutely made a difference in my back like I havent had in years
Lots of bodybuilders hamstring (pun intended) themselves by staying too lean too often. In terms of pure muscle building, giga-bulkers like elite strongmen and powerlifters often blow bodybuilders out of the water. For what it's worth, sumo wrestlers, the ultimate giga-bulkers, routinely have FFMIs above 30, with the biggest guys hitting FFMIs of 35+.
Bloatmaxxing 🫡
@@kren4449 Interestingly, sumo wrestlers aren't actually as fat as you might think. In the study I was looking at (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28548340/) their mean bodyfat percentage was 26%, which is fat but not outrageous. Even the biggest guy was only 33%.
Been waiting on this 😊
Food! Eating more is by far the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around. I don't like looking chubbier than I already am. Once day before I stop training, it has only been a couple of years, I will get eat more. I am 52 however, so that day better come sooner than later.
Exellent video mate, funny and informative, made me lol twice and that takes some doing.
I got injured when I was 14... I did reverse push ups during a warm up to a swim, our trainer told us to do 20 reps, and so I did and got a solar plexus injury, it hurt me to bring my arms together for a couple of weeks. I train like an old man, not going to failure, just close enough on my push ups, dips, bench press.
I've returned to the intermediate state 3 times over my training career. Its been about 4 years. Why? I kept getting injured. Ive torn literally 9 separate areas in my body. Im way smarter than I was before but man its not worth going crazy. The diminishing returns I got from going overboard were never worth getting injured and losing tons of progress that then took me a even longer to get back. Had I never fucked up and got myself hurt Id be so much further. Its something I think of often. Gotta be smarter, gotta listen to your body, gotta do better.
Some guys, like myself, are in it for the long haul but take it too far. Its 100% ok to hold yourself back if it means you are able to be consistent. Some people need to be pushed to train hard, others need to be held back so they dont go to far.
Agreed. Take it from someone who had seemed injury-proof for many, many years: anyone can push it too far and get hurt.
Can personally attest to the fact that wives can certainly be “Gainz Goblins” (credit to Bald Omni Man for coining that term…) 😂
That term existed long before Bald Okni Man but yeah
or not. 1) music 2) training 3) self development 4) creating value for other people 5) women
@@Ignore14 Jason Genova walked so that we could run
@@BaldOmniManenjoy the ment
Bruhh 💀
Beard lookin' fantastic!
Injuries are our biggest enemy. 3 months ago I pulled something in my chest, because I had the idea to test how many dips I can do and I already did chest and shoulders that day. Well that was a dumb idea, it took 2 months to get pain free.
As a father and someone who does manual labor I can say I still make great gains. But it does require extra effort and you are going to miss a day here and there. Mainly getting up very early in the morning and training is the switch I had to make.
Yeah I'm a dad and I work 65 hours per week at a physical job. I still get to the gym after or before work and then Sunday morning. So I don't care to hear other people's excuses
@@stephen8996 Agreed brother. Keep it up.
Unfortunately i got most of my injuries even before i started wheighlifting. I played Basketball and then competed in Taekwondo for 8 years before i started wheiglifting. Mobility training takes a lot of my time, it's like 60% of the free time lifting and 40% of the time doing mobility. With that said: it helped me very much to understand that my limit is different than others. It's about reaching the maximum i can with what i have. I couldn't do deep squats with 1/4 of my wheing when i started, now i can do it with 1.25x my wheight. Just collect the small victories and aim to improve.
Weight******"
@@stephen8996its actually wheylifting
Great video
Awesome video, and very inspirational! I'm in the middle of a bulk right now. Compared to last year's bulk, I'm as fluffy at 205lbs, as I was last year at 190lbs. Exciting stuff.
YES I CAN !
Education is the key. I think if someone goes back and forth between muscle building and tendon strenth training with the proper nutrition could get a natural Ronnie Coleman. Though you may have to live in a gym/nutrional lab, once you plateau in muscle growth, you then switch to tendon strength/flexibility, now you can load your muscle with more weight, plateau again, revert back to tendon training and so on for 50 years. Tendon training is the tough part and it takes a long time to transform your tendons, but is the key to easily pass those muscle growth plateaus you reach.
Absolutely love the breakdown here. Some of these standards are so arbitrary. We know so much in terms of health and fitness, but we’re always learning more 💪
Ive noticed on youtube over the years so many people seem to think that you can reach your natural limit in a few years just by training and eating right lol. I realised most people get past their first year of newbie gains then past that once progress slows down they hit their first major plateau once they get big and relatively lean and after only a few years call it their genetic limit.
Im pretty sure I hit mine in my 20's, although wont ever truly know as I stopped lifting for ten years around 27 years old, but lifting from 15/15 to 27 years old In those final 5 or so years I hit a 'limit' a few times. ie I had already got really big but just stalled and hit a wall.
I found you have to really be in tune with your body to recognise when to change things and what and how to change things. it can be frustrating at that stage fine tuning things as what works best at one time wont at another and different things are more optimal at different times. there's no set rule, you just have to find what works to break through that plateau and start slowly making more gains.
Back then I genuinely didn't believe in a natural limit. I used to read muscle and fitness and flex and see jay cutler, lee preist, kevin levrone etc and Id convince myself I could get somewhere near that size naturally and thats how I trained with that determination.
I got way bigger than I ever thought possible and was accused constantly of being on steroids even by training partners and people who were close to me refused to believe I wasn't on gear. Other people I knew who were on gear would get genuinely angry because they wold tell me im lying as "100% you're on steroids as you cannot be that big naturally"
Love it 4:00
Depends on how you see it. There is a natural limit to some extent ....but not if you live for 500 years. But lets be serious some people have been training hard and progressive for like 50 years and the last 40 they have gained 1kg mayby.
Yeh but but by the same token some many people fall into a permanent comfort zone when they train for long enough, which isn't really indicative of a true physical limit.
@@questionableethnicity2268stole the words out of my mouth. That was going to be my reply, majority of people you meet in the gym who are in good shape aren't totally trying to put in the effort to surpass where they got to years ago. I know plenty who want to maintain, I'll never understand it myself but on that front those are the people who put on maybe 5 to 10 lb of muscle across 30 years and never particularly put more on.
You can't live to 500 and after a certain age you will start to get weaker&smaller.
I have a family and kids bro 5:45 and I assure you buddy I will reach my natural limit . It's all about the work ethic and mindset
There is a natural physical limit
And a natural mental limit
I don't care if I'm at my 'natural limit', at this point I exclusively work out to sort my mind out and not commit war crimes
Based Serb
But its boring because now youre just maintaining
Same, obsessing over fitness is my form of escapism
It's worse than just maintaining. In my 50's, after several permanent injuries, I'm just chasing the Ghost of What Once Was.
Holy fucking hell bro... What is wrong with your delts!! Looking enhanced af my man
I think you need a dip belt GvS. That holding the DB with the legs is no fun.
5:20 PREACH, Geoff
As I see it, injury is a 2-fold gain killer:
obvious one: keeps you away from the gym for a certain period, during which you'll inevitably lose muscle (at least in your injured area);
hidden one: the psychological inhibiting of training hard, fearing you'll get injured again
+20 social credits for Geoff
Good stuff, great information and the jokes and humor are on point and make your content FAR more fun and interesting than most other fitness educators/influencers. Kids will kill your gainz! :)
This is a good example of, Shut Up and Lift. Worry about progress, not limits.
It's like meter can be devided in infinet peaces how ever there is a point of sharp denineshing return that gets almost exponential. Harsh trouth. But u can look amazing as a natty!
5:26 AYO THAT WAS PERSONAL 😂 I’m on a bulk at all costs tho so its all good 🤣
Prepare the Altar
How about if you only got half of your potential by the time you hit 45 years old, can you attain some of that missed potential after 45-50?
For sure.
I’ll say, you’re noticeably bigger than when I started watching the channel a little over a year ago imo
There's definitely a natural limit, else we'd all take 5-6 cycles and maintain that size. However the moto alone that there's no natty limit is powerful, especially for the younger generations now that need the natty hope in order to keep them of gear more than ever.
Not a logical point. When you stop gear, natural T production is compromised, androgen receptors are less sensitive.
@@proximacentauri3627 That's the exact point, there is a natural limit predicated by hormone levels you can only get so big with your individual genetic factors, myostatin, testosterone, bone structure etc. Also when you jump off gear your androgen receptors actually become more sensitive hence why cycles typically only go for about 16-20 weeks.
Hey GVS, have you ever considered releasing your books in a paperback format? It think Hersovyac has talked a bit about self-publishing lately. I think there would be a lot of people interested in getting physical copies. As for the video: while I think Jeff Nippard gives a lot of quality information for free, and his stuff is just plainly entertaining to watch due to high production value, he seems like a person who loves to be right and even if he is not attacking the opposing worldview straight and don't participate in drama much, he is rather close-minded and dosen't look kindly on anything that isn't the general consensus.
It’s just toxic to put a limit on people like he does. People watch him and have been training 2 years and are like “I reached muh limit”.
Then you watch guys like GVS, BOM, Hersovyac, and Alex to cleanse your palate of that garbage.
Also keep in mind that Steve Reeves also contracted malaria while serving our country overseas. He got very sick and lost good weight. He recovered of course but I have to imagine the setback may have kept him from training as continuous as he would have liked.
I am a Powerbuilder, squatting and deadlifting 300 kg raw and natural but I feel like being a beginner still lol no limits in sight soon. My goal is to squat & deadllift over 400 kg raw and squatting 500kg equipped. Never injured myself so far instead one time on purpose to see how I regenerate from that on how bad training is after that. So I tore my abdomen muscles from doing a 400 kg 18 inch deadlift ^^ But I am able to train around that very nicely so far choosing higher reps and using a belt. More problematic are my hip joints atm forcing me to work more in the 5-12 rep range and for now not doing pure strength focused 1-3 reps with the hip dominant lifts. arms are at 46 cm without pump so far but I just focused on strength until now with 45 kg dumbbell curl max.
I train beyond fatigue and tiredness like a maniac (learned that from my long distance running in the past), most of the time 4-5 hours a day 5-6 times a week but I take long breaks iof 10-15 minutes in between very heavy sets and I need 5-6 warm up sets to get to the really heav sets. If a muscle is failing I just switch the eercise and train it even further, after that choosing just another exercise until everything is squeezed out of it ^^ Takes a long time. I eat everything in my way, 6000 kcal, sometimes less, sometimes even up to 10.000 or more and everything vegan.
I have no traning-log but somehow I do remember everything from the last training and also frome some training sessions before. Also I just "feel" what weight and RPE to use to grow. In my head I also keep track in which ~8 week block I am.
My home gym and using meal prep companies has saved me from these little gains stealing goblins aka my young children. It is possible Dads it just takes extra thought and effort. The sleep part is the only variable where you have little control over, but you just have to focus on controlling what you can control.
14:05 what the heck man haha, your can see the striations so clearly. What fat percentage would you be at there roughly? Btw my sternum is hurting just looking at you maxing out on dips
Like Spock always said, "Lift long and prosper..." or something like that.
There is no natural limit.
There is the ultimate natty potential
The question is so unbelievably stupid. Obviously there is a natural limit. If there was no natural limit, then that would mean that not only can naturals surpass steroid users in terms of size and strength - but there would be no limit to how big and strong people could be. Its beyond ridiculous and meaningless. Obviously there is a natural limit. Do we know exactly what that is on average, or for any given individual? No. But that obviously doesn't mean it "doesn't exist".
It doesnt exist it just slows down. Steroids stop it slowing down
"honey it's parent day, where are you"
"setting a new squat pr"
I am an old man (53) so I know your advice to train like an old man is solid. I have continued to add muscle even at my ripe old age by going close to failure but not killing myself.
53 here and agree. Been lifting since 1988.
whoa, I will be 30 soon and I aspire to continue lifting like you
I’m 60 and heavier and leaner than ever. I protect that hour in the morning in my home gym with my life because it is my life.
You really think 53 is old? I'm 51 and bigger and stronger than I have ever been, and I've been hitting it hard and heavy at the gym for 30 years. Making great gains and hitting quite a few big all time PR's in the last couple of years.
@@DANA-lx8cv Not really. In the gym, people think I'm ancient, though.
I have an interesting topic, what do u think of the recent recommendations that if ur going to failure u only do 1-2sets per exercise no matter the exercise and that further increases per exercise have worst stimulus to fatigue ratio as in ur better off just doing another exercise to hit the muscle from a different angle instead of adding more sets to the same exercise. How do u go about this recommendation. and that on avg most people will responde best to 8-12 sets to failure per muscle group per week. is that even accurate? That what seems to be the high intensity science based guys nowadays. Just thought Would be an interesting topic that u might consider talking about
Haven't you noticed that videos like these always attract a specific type of person? There are these guys who seem personally offended at anyone even mildly critiquing the idea of a natural limit, almost as if it was like a serious political or religious belief they hold? It's really weird imho.
Vernon Davis year around looked like a bodybuilder, dude was ripped, same as Patrick Willis
The sky’s the limit
The Kylo Ren memes were golden... Almost in tall order... I'd choose them as my first order
3:52 Definately best part of the video 😀
15:27 musclemonsters 😂
children & injuries kill gains 🙌
Just wanted to add:
I have a friend that wants to build muscle in a short amount of time, but doesn’t track his training. He says oh it’s all “ mental “. Aka he doesn’t have a actual training program and just spinning his wheels. I’m sure there is a lot more people like him that go to your average commercial gym. Maybe there is a limit but most don’t come even close to reaching it in their life time.
There are plenty of people who train without tracking and without a set program who have made gains for years. Tracking is not nedded if you can remember your working sets, have a good exercise selection . Most people who say you absolutely have to track to overload have way to high exercise selection, a bad memory and or like the data.
@@Waywardbiscuit yeah but the problem is people don’t have a good exercise selection. If a majority of people could do that and get away with it. I don’t think all the conversations about programming and genetic potential would be in existence.
@@UnbearabIe Thats a issue with their selection not a issue with not tracking. Just because your selection is bad doesnt then mean tracking is needed for everyone. Many like GVS make statements like you 100% have to track to make gains or you arent serious about training if you dont track or have a set program. Which is 100% bull. Maybe they say it because they are pushing things like bootcamp.
I know a ton of kids my age in high school who go to my commercial gym who just spend their entire time there spinning their wheels not tracking anything. When you don’t know how to push yourself in the gym properly you need to track. Advanced people know how to push themselves so not tracking can work for them a lot of the time.
3:50 children are fantastic for natural muscle grow, i already ate 2 of my kids while bulking and i gotta say the gains are insane!
Haven't watched the video, but I wanted to thank you for being a great inspiration Geoff 🙏
You broke your limiter
Are there diminishing returns to gains? Yes. Should that stop you? Fuck no.
Also people give up way too quickly, train for 10 years correctly and you'll be surprised at how good your genetics were all along. This is a game of patience and selling yourself short is the quickest way to not get the body you dream of.
12:02 piana is that u?
Steve Shaw says he has NEVER seen a natural break Dr. Casey Butts natural limit calculations
3:50 There's my 👍
Geoffrey is getting so masive holy sh*t
geoff why do you and NH have the same arm size but his look so much smaller? is it proportions?
Most likely, he's a lot more biceps dominant.
5:36 BASED ASF
needs to be said way more often
Hey I have a question regarding the Ronnie Coleman thing. What if it’s actually possible to look like Ronnie Coleman naturally it’s just something we’d never reach due to lack of time? Imagine if you lifted at your peak for 300 years maybe then you could look like Ronnie maybe? What do you think?
4:48 in most cases 🤣🤣🤣🤣