I am both amazed and impressed that this fellow knows this much about these computers built when he was a kid. His presentations are also outstanding. It gives me hope for the younger generation.
The interest in retro computing and the IBM brand has ensured that the T43 and older machines are now fetching considerably more than the early Lenovos. I'm writing this on a Lenovo T61 which I got for $40. With 4GB, an SSD and the Middleton BIOS upgrade it runs Windows 10 pretty well. Mine has the 16:10 15.6" screen and a later NVIDIA GPU so it plays full HD videos without an issue. Main processor is a T8300. I love this thing, and while it's not my daily driver I do use it regularly.
I haved owned many Thinkpads since the chunky 380 and the impressively thin T20. You have added much to my knowledge about the transition from IBM to Lenovo. Great video! I'll have another please...
Fun fact Lenovo produced as a contractor IBM's Thinkpad for years before buying them from IBM, IBM thinkpads don't usually contain a Windows key. Lenovos does. You know for that OS/2 enthusiast. Actually with the right Linux distro the t43 might be a bit more useful, but stepping up to a t60 is really like stepping in to another dimension. Computationally speaking it's epically more powerful then a Chromebook. All you need is the right software to exploit it.
Thats a loaded question with all due and respect. Generally speaking from a budget system. The t43 is a single core cpu, limited to sse4 instruction set, the t60 has a core2duo with two cores and sse4.1. Thus you could run a newer distro on a t43, but t60 would actually be far more useful, and in most cases more powerful than the ultra low voltage celerons in Chromebooks in turn also limited in most cases by ram, and so forth, and none of them can use or fully exploit 64-bit OS. So, that points a bit mute. This should be more of a common sense issue really. But, I am talking about Linux over OS/2. Name your Linux software, it will probably run better on the t60 over the other two and yes, you can run Linux on many Chromebooks, but it's not a fantastic experience.
hey R.a. Wheeler, it looks like youre familiar with those machines. if you're online and have a minute i'd like a little advise. I'd like to get a laptop but didn't really use one for a long time.(except for a very low tech thing to do some network stuff) the battery life is very very important. i hate being in the middel of something and the machine is turning off. it shouldn't be fancy but able to browse the web, watching videos, taking notes, writing code.. all the basic things without the intention of any gaming or video editing. of course i'd install linux (i would even go so far to say: lets flash the bios, go for coreboot! :D) what sort of device and battery would you recommend?
Sure, If I stand correct the T430 and t420 are great candidates for such things. I run MInt Linux on mine personally. I have not done the bios yet, but like you, I like the idea.
it would be the first time for me too. mint is fine for an entertainment machine. i installed it on a machine thats for gaming, television and gets used not only by me but some windows users as well. i dont think its the right thing on a laptop for me though. dont get me wrong here, i think its a fine system in all the usecases its meant for.. its just a little heavy. (compared to other distros! compared to windows its a huge step up) i thing either lite or xubuntu for an easy installation. maybe, if i am in the mood to get all the battery life out of the machine even gentoo or puppy. gentoo seems painful to install though.
I have personally found my R51 with a lightweight Linux distro to be perfectly adequate as a backup computer and at least here on the second hand market anything with a dual core processor in it is double or triple the price. I maxed out my R51 for under $60 CDN . In fact the most expensive piece of hardware connected to it is a USB external harddrive.
I used my T60 from when dad handed it down to me in late 08 to 2017 , when the rollcage cracked making the hinge useless. I then bought a really cheap , fucked up X220 I used up until a few weeks ago when I got a T430
Thanks for the video, I do own a T43p and T60 as well. Fun fact, even the T23 says 'made in China' at the back, maybe they used the same factories all the time.
I can't confirm this for sure now but I seem to remember reading somewhere that when the sale of the Thinkpad line went to Lenovo that Lenovo was already one of the overseas manufacturing partners that built Thinkpads.
I like how great t60 works on winXP and ssd (with trim software), it saves additional 1-2 W power consuption. Cool machine for oldschool gaming. Wish to find t43p some day.
Excellent explanation as always. I just bought a T60 for US$55 on Colombian ebay. To my surprise, is the model with ATI X1300 chip and 1400x1050 (no IPS) screen. 2GB of RAM and T2400 1.83 core duo processor. Some keys are loose because the X thingy under the keys mechanism are broken and are fixable, the fan was making funny noises but overall the machine is in good shape, it only need some care and cleaning. It runs windows 10! and streaming youtube videos are okay. I still looking for a $140 T430, i have the money but my concience says NO! you need the money for this hard times :-/
I'm...watching and commenting on a 2003 Pentium M tablet PC. Linux saved this thing! Still, I'm watching in 480P with some dropped frames, but it works:) Due to OpenGL and WebGL limitations, I use this as my secondary PC as some websites aren't compatible with these ancient specs, but most things still work alright on here. It has a 1.7GHz Pentium M and 2GB RAM with its original 40GB spinning drive. It's a Gateway M275 with a classic style keyboard and a 1024x768 resolution.
You might wanna try LFS(Linux From Scratch) or Gentoo on the older IBM ThinkPad and use exclusively command line tools, I know this might sound crazy but even early 2000s hardware can be repurposed and still be very useful with a custom Linux kernel build. Might not be worth the effort but still a nice learning experience.
Depending on the distro you use, it might perform a little bit better than Windows. For me it wasn’t enough of a difference for it to be a viable daily driver.
I have an old R51 with Linux and it runs probably better then it would have on XP in 2004. Part of the problem is not so much the computer as bloated OS and web browsers. I know for a fact for the longest time Firefox had an unaddressed memory leak. The fact that RAM is so cheap now it has led to even lazier programming.
I have a Lenovo 400 thinkpad and it does not work for some reason and it probably have to do with Windows 10 being installed on it. The computer came with Windows Vista originally and I am going to put ArcaOS 5 (OS/2 upgrade) on it if I figure out the problem with the screen and why it is blank after the boot screen. I was able to setup Windows 10 when I received the computer yesterday and once that was done the screen went blank and I have not seen anything after the start screen upon bootup each time I try to start it.
Your T400 has switchable graphics (can switch between Intel and ATI graphics. Windows 10 defaults to an external monitor for some reason, and as explained in my Core 2 Duo video, the switchable graphics don't work properly in Windows 10.
It all depends on what your needs and preferences are. All 3 are still practical for most everyday tasks, even more demanding ones. For about 2 years I used a T430 as my video editing computer. But I'll break it down for you as best as I can: The T420 is best if you value the classic ThinkPad design but still want a relevant computer. It still has the classic keyboard, ThinkLight, latches, hot-swappable UltraBay, etc. The downsides are that it uses Sandy Bridge processors which are a bit older, and if you upgrade to a quad-core i7 there is a small risk of thermal throttling and high temperatures. It is possible to modify the system to accept Ivy Bridge processors instead, but this is risky and not for the faint of heart. Still a great computer overall despite these shortcomings. The T430 is mostly the same external design, except the classic ThinkPad keyboard has been replaced with the more modern chiclet style keyboard. It still feels fine to type on and it is fairly easy to swap in a T420 keyboard and flash the BIOS to make the old keyboard's layout work. It has some key advantages over the T420 internally, as it has USB 3.0, better battery life and integrated graphics, and you can upgrade to a quad-core processor without the risk of it running hotter than what the ThinkPad was designed for because of the better efficiency. The T440p has a radically different design from its predecessors, and it is a very "love it or hate it" sort of deal. The 4th-generation processors are marginally faster than the Ivy Bridge chips used in the T430, and the biggest improvement (at least for me) comes with the T440p natively supporting 1080p IPS displays, which can't be done in the T420 or T430 without an expensive converter board. The T440p is also easier to upgrade for the most part; you just remove 2 screws from the bottom panel and can access virtually anything you would need to upgrade. The only major downsides to it are its complete redesign which may be a dealbreaker for some, the clickpad that it uses instead of physical buttons (can be negated with a T450 touchpad as shown in my newest video), and the lack of an ExpressCard slot for expandability or external GPUs. Ultimately it boils down to what you need it for and what your personal preferences are.
Thanks Sebi for the detailed reply. I'm thinking more in the lines of the T430 as it seems to powerful enough for my needs and has a decent integrated Gpu and decent battery life. The chiclet keyboard seems to be fine as it does offer a backlight. One more Question for you. Which of these has the best build quality? I prefer something which has tank like build quality. Which is your current Thinkpad daily driver?
I currently use an X230 with the classic keyboard (which I did 2 videos about) as my daily driver, it’s basically the 12” version of the T430. I used a classic-keyboard modded T430 for video editing until very recently when I bought a desktop. I’d say all 3 of them are built like tanks but I would trust the T420/T430 to take a few hits more than the T440p, even though all of them are really hard to destroy.
Did you know if you copy the Rollercoaster Tycoon CD's files to a folder on your HDD and then run the setup from there, you can run the game without the CD?
Sebi i have a question, What should i buy I want small 12inch thinkpad that i can upgrade the hardware and good for a student for editing and also i wan't the old keyboard type but anything that you can suggest that is not in my preference, i would love to listen to an expert opinion
I didn't mention every model, I was bound to leave a few out. The R52 to my knowledge came out during the transitional phase where it would have been primarily designed by IBM but has a "Manufactured for Lenovo" sticker on the bottom, as is the case with many late-production "IBM" ThinkPads.
You *can* put them in, but why *would* you? The point is nearly every T60 comes with Core Duos or Core 2 Duos, the Core Solo may have even been a custom order. With used Core 2 Duos being as cheap as they are and being infinitely faster than the fastest Pentium M, there is no reason to keep making an argument for the older systems just because *one* processor exists for the T60 that is slower.
You are sad. I saw Predator 1 and 2 on Compaq Armada m700 on a dual layer dvd having Pentium 3 coppermine core at 800 Mhz with 456 MB of SD RAM in 2004 after installing Mandrake Linux 10.1 and Kaffeine as the video player.
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
I am both amazed and impressed that this fellow knows this much about these computers built when he was a kid. His presentations are also outstanding. It gives me hope for the younger generation.
The interest in retro computing and the IBM brand has ensured that the T43 and older machines are now fetching considerably more than the early Lenovos. I'm writing this on a Lenovo T61 which I got for $40. With 4GB, an SSD and the Middleton BIOS upgrade it runs Windows 10 pretty well. Mine has the 16:10 15.6" screen and a later NVIDIA GPU so it plays full HD videos without an issue. Main processor is a T8300. I love this thing, and while it's not my daily driver I do use it regularly.
I haved owned many Thinkpads since the chunky 380 and the impressively thin T20. You have added much to my knowledge about the transition from IBM to Lenovo. Great video! I'll have another please...
More videos are on the way!
Fun fact Lenovo produced as a contractor IBM's Thinkpad for years before buying them from IBM, IBM thinkpads don't usually contain a Windows key. Lenovos does. You know for that OS/2 enthusiast. Actually with the right Linux distro the t43 might be a bit more useful, but stepping up to a t60 is really like stepping in to another dimension. Computationally speaking it's epically more powerful then a Chromebook. All you need is the right software to exploit it.
For example, what kind of software are you referring to?
Thats a loaded question with all due and respect. Generally speaking from a budget system. The t43 is a single core cpu, limited to sse4 instruction set, the t60 has a core2duo with two cores and sse4.1. Thus you could run a newer distro on a t43, but t60 would actually be far more useful, and in most cases more powerful than the ultra low voltage celerons in Chromebooks in turn also limited in most cases by ram, and so forth, and none of them can use or fully exploit 64-bit OS. So, that points a bit mute. This should be more of a common sense issue really. But, I am talking about Linux over OS/2. Name your Linux software, it will probably run better on the t60 over the other two and yes, you can run Linux on many Chromebooks, but it's not a fantastic experience.
hey R.a. Wheeler, it looks like youre familiar with those machines. if you're online and have a minute i'd like a little advise.
I'd like to get a laptop but didn't really use one for a long time.(except for a very low tech thing to do some network stuff)
the battery life is very very important. i hate being in the middel of something and the machine is turning off.
it shouldn't be fancy but able to browse the web, watching videos, taking notes, writing code.. all the basic things without the intention of any gaming or video editing.
of course i'd install linux (i would even go so far to say: lets flash the bios, go for coreboot! :D)
what sort of device and battery would you recommend?
Sure, If I stand correct the T430 and t420 are great candidates for such things. I run MInt Linux on mine personally. I have not done the bios yet, but like you, I like the idea.
it would be the first time for me too.
mint is fine for an entertainment machine. i installed it on a machine thats for gaming, television and gets used not only by me but some windows users as well. i dont think its the right thing on a laptop for me though.
dont get me wrong here, i think its a fine system in all the usecases its meant for.. its just a little heavy. (compared to other distros! compared to windows its a huge step up)
i thing either lite or xubuntu for an easy installation. maybe, if i am in the mood to get all the battery life out of the machine even gentoo or puppy. gentoo seems painful to install though.
Dude, you're a really good presenter/speaker. Enjoyable videos
Awesome series so far. I can't wait to see the next episode.
Glad you like the series. Next episode will be coming soon!
I have personally found my R51 with a lightweight Linux distro to be perfectly adequate as a backup computer and at least here on the second hand market anything with a dual core processor in it is double or triple the price. I maxed out my R51 for under $60 CDN . In fact the most expensive piece of hardware connected to it is a USB external harddrive.
I used my T60 from when dad handed it down to me in late 08 to 2017 , when the rollcage cracked making the hinge useless. I then bought a really cheap , fucked up X220 I used up until a few weeks ago when I got a T430
Typing from my own T430 right now! It's an excellent machine with lots of upgradeability.
Thanks for the video, I do own a T43p and T60 as well. Fun fact, even the T23 says 'made in China' at the back, maybe they used the same factories all the time.
I can't confirm this for sure now but I seem to remember reading somewhere that when the sale of the Thinkpad line went to Lenovo that Lenovo was already one of the overseas manufacturing partners that built Thinkpads.
I like how great t60 works on winXP and ssd (with trim software), it saves additional 1-2 W power consuption. Cool machine for oldschool gaming. Wish to find t43p some day.
Excellent explanation as always. I just bought a T60 for US$55 on Colombian ebay. To my surprise, is the model with ATI X1300 chip and 1400x1050 (no IPS) screen. 2GB of RAM and T2400 1.83 core duo processor. Some keys are loose because the X thingy under the keys mechanism are broken and are fixable, the fan was making funny noises but overall the machine is in good shape, it only need some care and cleaning. It runs windows 10! and streaming youtube videos are okay. I still looking for a $140 T430, i have the money but my concience says NO! you need the money for this hard times :-/
I'm...watching and commenting on a 2003 Pentium M tablet PC. Linux saved this thing!
Still, I'm watching in 480P with some dropped frames, but it works:)
Due to OpenGL and WebGL limitations, I use this as my secondary PC as some websites aren't compatible with these ancient specs, but most things still work alright on here. It has a 1.7GHz Pentium M and 2GB RAM with its original 40GB spinning drive. It's a Gateway M275 with a classic style keyboard and a 1024x768 resolution.
Good explanation, actually I learnt a lot ! Thanks, subscribed !
The ibm thinkpad t23 from the late 90s actually has a very Lenovo t60 build to it, but the build quality is much higher, at least from my experience.
You might wanna try LFS(Linux From Scratch) or Gentoo on the older IBM ThinkPad and use exclusively command line tools, I know this might sound crazy but even early 2000s hardware can be repurposed and still be very useful with a custom Linux kernel build. Might not be worth the effort but still a nice learning experience.
Something to keep in mind if I get my hands on any more of these older models.
Wouldn't Linux or BSD make the T43 run better? and have no problem using the web browser?
Depending on the distro you use, it might perform a little bit better than Windows. For me it wasn’t enough of a difference for it to be a viable daily driver.
I have an old R51 with Linux and it runs probably better then it would have on XP in 2004. Part of the problem is not so much the computer as bloated OS and web browsers. I know for a fact for the longest time Firefox had an unaddressed memory leak. The fact that RAM is so cheap now it has led to even lazier programming.
Love this content. Subscribed.
There are laptops with core i5 2.6ghz and 16 gig Ram on ebay. Would these upgrades catch it up with the latest web technologies.
I have a Lenovo 400 thinkpad and it does not work for some reason and it probably have to do with Windows 10 being installed on it. The computer came with Windows Vista originally and I am going to put ArcaOS 5 (OS/2 upgrade) on it if I figure out the problem with the screen and why it is blank after the boot screen. I was able to setup Windows 10 when I received the computer yesterday and once that was done the screen went blank and I have not seen anything after the start screen upon bootup each time I try to start it.
Your T400 has switchable graphics (can switch between Intel and ATI graphics. Windows 10 defaults to an external monitor for some reason, and as explained in my Core 2 Duo video, the switchable graphics don't work properly in Windows 10.
I went from an R51 to my current x201T.
Hi Sebi, I'm thinking of getting a T series laptop for a steal. Which one would be the best bang for the buck T series lap you can think of?
T420, T430, or if you don’t mind the modern design, T440p.
Thanks for the recommendation, Sebi. Out of those 3 which one would you pick and why?
It all depends on what your needs and preferences are. All 3 are still practical for most everyday tasks, even more demanding ones. For about 2 years I used a T430 as my video editing computer. But I'll break it down for you as best as I can:
The T420 is best if you value the classic ThinkPad design but still want a relevant computer. It still has the classic keyboard, ThinkLight, latches, hot-swappable UltraBay, etc. The downsides are that it uses Sandy Bridge processors which are a bit older, and if you upgrade to a quad-core i7 there is a small risk of thermal throttling and high temperatures. It is possible to modify the system to accept Ivy Bridge processors instead, but this is risky and not for the faint of heart. Still a great computer overall despite these shortcomings.
The T430 is mostly the same external design, except the classic ThinkPad keyboard has been replaced with the more modern chiclet style keyboard. It still feels fine to type on and it is fairly easy to swap in a T420 keyboard and flash the BIOS to make the old keyboard's layout work. It has some key advantages over the T420 internally, as it has USB 3.0, better battery life and integrated graphics, and you can upgrade to a quad-core processor without the risk of it running hotter than what the ThinkPad was designed for because of the better efficiency.
The T440p has a radically different design from its predecessors, and it is a very "love it or hate it" sort of deal. The 4th-generation processors are marginally faster than the Ivy Bridge chips used in the T430, and the biggest improvement (at least for me) comes with the T440p natively supporting 1080p IPS displays, which can't be done in the T420 or T430 without an expensive converter board. The T440p is also easier to upgrade for the most part; you just remove 2 screws from the bottom panel and can access virtually anything you would need to upgrade. The only major downsides to it are its complete redesign which may be a dealbreaker for some, the clickpad that it uses instead of physical buttons (can be negated with a T450 touchpad as shown in my newest video), and the lack of an ExpressCard slot for expandability or external GPUs. Ultimately it boils down to what you need it for and what your personal preferences are.
Thanks Sebi for the detailed reply. I'm thinking more in the lines of the T430 as it seems to powerful enough for my needs and has a decent integrated Gpu and decent battery life. The chiclet keyboard seems to be fine as it does offer a backlight.
One more Question for you. Which of these has the best build quality? I prefer something which has tank like build quality.
Which is your current Thinkpad daily driver?
I currently use an X230 with the classic keyboard (which I did 2 videos about) as my daily driver, it’s basically the 12” version of the T430. I used a classic-keyboard modded T430 for video editing until very recently when I bought a desktop. I’d say all 3 of them are built like tanks but I would trust the T420/T430 to take a few hits more than the T440p, even though all of them are really hard to destroy.
Hi Sebi, can you tell me if I'll face any issues if I upgrade the t430 processor to 3720 qm
It might run a bit hot. Make sure you use good quality thermal paste and maybe even consider undervolting the CPU a bit to prevent overheating.
What do you think of the current gen ThinkPads?
Compromised but still better than other options on the market.
Fair point, thanks for the reply. And nice videos, thanks for the content.
I have x61s x220 x230 . x61s's keyboard finger feeling is the most comfortable!
Did you know if you copy the Rollercoaster Tycoon CD's files to a folder on your HDD and then run the setup from there, you can run the game without the CD?
I am aware of that.
Are the T43 good enough to play PC games ca year 2000? Thinking about games like Unreal Tournament, The Sims or Midtown Madness.
It should be, especially if you upgrade the RAM and CPU, and/or get a model with dedicated graphics.
Thanks for answering :-)
Sebi i have a question, What should i buy
I want small 12inch thinkpad that i can upgrade the hardware and good for a student for editing
and also i wan't the old keyboard type but anything that you can suggest that is not in my preference, i would love to listen to an expert opinion
X220 was the newest 12" ThinkPad with the classic keyboard, however X230's can be easily modified to fit and use the X220 keyboard.
Editing what?
you got skillz and the knowledge early.
the core2 duo max config is faster than my i3 6 gen laptop
Wow! I guess i3s are a piece of shit.
How to make sure nobody steals your expensive computer: don't use an expensive computer 🤓
Ah, you forgot the R52, is it an IBM's ThinkPad, or a Lenovo's one ?
I didn't mention every model, I was bound to leave a few out. The R52 to my knowledge came out during the transitional phase where it would have been primarily designed by IBM but has a "Manufactured for Lenovo" sticker on the bottom, as is the case with many late-production "IBM" ThinkPads.
great video, thank you
you can put core solo cpus in the t60 which are slower than the pentium m cpus.
You *can* put them in, but why *would* you? The point is nearly every T60 comes with Core Duos or Core 2 Duos, the Core Solo may have even been a custom order. With used Core 2 Duos being as cheap as they are and being infinitely faster than the fastest Pentium M, there is no reason to keep making an argument for the older systems just because *one* processor exists for the T60 that is slower.
Thanks
Why buy vintage ThinkPad?
Because they're awesome.
the key actually is the change of technology, not brand
Both happened to happen around the same time.
T60s Core Solo is slower than the 2nd best Pentium M.
But almost none came with it and they can easily be upgraded. T43's fastest processor is painfully slow compared to a competently specced T60.
You are sad.
I saw Predator 1 and 2 on Compaq Armada m700 on a dual layer dvd having Pentium 3 coppermine core at 800 Mhz with 456 MB of SD RAM in 2004 after installing Mandrake Linux 10.1 and Kaffeine as the video player.
Kind of dark.
Thank the camera’s auto exposure.
IBM THINKPAD MUCH BETTER THAN LENOVO THINKPAD.
CAPS LOCK NOT NECESSARY GET POINT ACROSS