Ragged Chute Air Plant: Now You're Digging With Gas!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2021
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The Ragged Chute plant was built in 1910 to supply compressed air to silver mines around the town of Cobalt, Ontario. Designed by engineer Charles Taylor, the plant harnessed the power of falling water from the Montreal River and had no moving parts, making it extraordinarily reliable and inexpensive to operate. Running continuously for more than 70 years, Ragged Chute was a marvel of turn-of-the-century engineering.
Thank you to viewer bccanoe for suggesting this topic!
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The fact that it worked basically 24/7 with little to no intervention for 70 years is incredible.
It's only amazing because of the shit produced today.
@@MadScientist267 "any idiot can build a bridge that lasts 1000 years, it takes a real engineer to make something fall apart exactly when it's intended to"
@@tissuepaper9962Lmao. Clearly the person who saw this never saw "saving private ryan".
@@tissuepaper9962 🤣🤣
@@tissuepaper9962 However, I always felt better in myself when making something that will last. When you know how to make something last six months past the warranty you can often design it to last five times the warranty with only a marginal increase in costs.
It's funny that it was re-invented, because not only was it used in Europe, but it also was part of many of the earliest steel production factories on the east coast. Many plants in New York and Pennsylvania had that trompe-based air compression tech for coke fired furnaces prior to changing to electrified steel production processes. So it was re-discovered for what amounted to a third time in the overall scheme of things.
missing something by 'a single decimal point' is a funny way of saying 'by a factor of 10' or 'an order of magnitude'
30m tall, 3m tall, what's the difference
63 years old, and never heard of this concept or it's application and use. Bravo.
You can combine this with a pump type, called lift-air-pump, to bring water up much higher than the stream it's powering from. Without any moving parts - except the water. :)
@@rickt.1870 Got him by two years (and you by one) and I'd never heard of it either. Quite an interesting concept.
@@DaveBuildsThings I'm still new at 60 but it's not something I ever heard of either. The things we learn on youtube.
That's because boomers are lazy and never paid attention at school.
49 yrs old, studied many consepts in mechanics and I too am learning about this for the first time. Its awsome when someone can show me something I've never seen or heard of, Gold star for this channel!
No moving parts and almost no maintenance. How cool is that?? I love efficiency! Why don't we do more of this??
Probably because outside of mining and metallurgy, few things need multiple kilowatt air systems. They can be quite useful, but unless you have a penned river nearby and a pretty unique demand, they aren't attractive.
Same reason why district heating and steam systems aren't popular if you aren't A; European, and B; living next to a gas or coal power plant.
I'm sure the modern design will contrive to be substantially more complex and less reliable!
I thought I was the only one who thinks that the more complex the world gets the more unusable things and services become. 🤣
@@BrewsterMcBrewster Yet the truth is things are often getting less complex, not more. Integrated circuits mean that a single $0.50 part can replace entire circuit boards!
Add a generator and your got electric. Opening for a bright young thing.
Thee was a similar devise installed at a gold mine in southern Ecuador built around 1920 or 30. I saw it operating in 1950 as a child. Also, a different use of water power saw a 2 chamber compressor driven by gravity forcing air to the top of a chamber with a head sufficient to put out air at 125 psi at Butte, Montana. Each side was slowly bled of the compressed air at a near constant pressure while the other side was filling with water. The water ended up not below the dewpoint having been pumped from hot underground mines, and this caused the pipes to condense water and freeze during the winter. It was decided that the power was best used by putting it to an electric generator spun by a Pelton wheel, and the Engineer claimed a better out put of energy, but with a great deal of expensive machinery..
Thank you for not adding back round noise.
My head produces its own.
Really cool! It's like the exact opposite of an air-lift water pump!
It's fun to see a rather 'ancient' technology experience a modern day revival. Great video Gilles!
Ancient is the right word: blacksmiths of the Middle Ages used this technique, their workshop was located near a river, which allowed them to use compressed air (which makes you think it's old, but "not so much"). The pharaohs, ancient Rome and the Muslims of Spain also used hydraulic techniques that we think today incredibly simple and ingenious... Because we are told ideologically that civilization improves as it ages.... But this is completely false, it is even the opposite, oil and electricity have operated engines that have initiated the decline of the ideation/invention process of humanity. Industrial civilization has lost contact with natural forces (gravity and sun - tides, wind, waterfalls, etc.).
@@surdespresdherbefraiche9157 Stupid people are easier to manipulate and control...
Very interesting. This was used at a mine in the up of Michigan.
I was in Cobalt once on a NARCOA motorcar excursion on the Ontario Northland Railway ~24 years ago, but only learned about this intriguing apparatus just a couple days ago whilst researching something else. :)
Great video. I first heard of this from Bill Mollison and thought it was such a good idea. Compressed air can even be used as air conditioning.
Yes, me too.
And refirigeration
@@stevesavage8784 It does leave out that detail. Especially useful now that climate change is happening. Only downside is it needs lots of water, not a guarantee with more drought conditions.
The "original air conditioner" was a barrel of of sea water, some pipe and a set of bellows. It was set up as an air filter in a hospital somewhere, ( pump air via the bellows into the water barrel, release the 'filtered air' into the ward ) but they found that that room was slightly cooler than everywhere else there. ( important word, slightly ). Obviously the sea water would slowly warm up.
Such a cool technology. Sure, you could use the same hydraulic potential to drive a hydro electric turbine and a series of electrical switch gear to get the power to electric air compressors and air dryers, but the trompe requires far less maintenance and has higher efficiency. Too bad they didn’t take that installation that shut down in the 1980s and use the air produced to drive electric generators, after the mines closed and the air itself was no longer needed. I saw a video of this plant in operation last year or so, taken the day before they closed the plant down, and had wanted to learn more about this amazing machine, so thank you for this great video!
@sourand jaded that’s a fair point, but I was just saying that since they already had this built to produce compressed air, it’s a shame they couldn’t find a use for that air. Unless there is more maintenance involved than what’s described, that would make it worth converting the existing compressed air plant into a hydro electric plant.
They built a small hydroelectric dam on the site. I go fishing there, it’s nice. :)
It is a very ancient system of air compression. In Italy there are still some examples of medieval iron refining workshops operating with this system. They were called "air horns". The first English blast furnaces of the first industrial revolution worked with this system. The energy efficiency ratio between an air horn and a compressor is 1 to 7, this is why it is preferred to make electricity instead of compressed air
I did an internet search for this but didn't get a result. Probably because I wasn't searching in the Italian language. Do you have a link to more information on the Air Horn system used in Italy. I'm curious. Not an engineer or anything.
Amazing video. Thank you so much! I know lots about Hydraulics, Pneumatics, A/C and and H/D mechanical equipment but never knew anything about this concept or the actual utilisation. Thanks for an inspirational video and history lesson!!!!
Such cool technology
Man, that was Fascinating ! !
Simply Fascinating !
Thanks so Much 😎👍
Fascinating, ashamed I have never heard of this before!
what's old is new again, its just improved by new technology... great video!!
These videos are phenomenal, this channel is so well-poised to blow up! Looking forward to when it does.
What an elegantly beautiful technology !
Such amazing old tech.......thanks for the great coverage of it.
Thank you for bringing this to a broader audience. I appreciate greatly the mechanical elegance of this method of compression.
Bravo........every dam should have one........clever idea........falling water......put coils around water pipe and generate power.......water air pump........cheers
....... ........
Absolutely bloody amazing ... thank you!! This whole channel looks fascinating, subscribed.
Amazingly simple, clever technology.
This channel is endlessly interesting.
I love tromps. Really good video on it. The best one icould find on ragged chutes.
Very cool. Neat video. Thanks.
👍👌👏 Oh WOW, simply fantastic. Until now I have never heard of this simple, ingenious and extremely effective system. Thanks a lot for making teaching explaining recording editing uploading and sharing.
Best regards, luck and health in particular.
first video ive seen by you. subscribed, great stuff!
As a kid, growing up in the area, i remember, clearly, my father driving us down the backroads beyond Cobalt to see the "blow off". Mainly on the weekends when the mines were idle.. Seeing the huge steel pipes running through the bush, near the road, hearing the hiss of escaping air at the pipe joints.... I just saw an article about the "tesla turbine"... Seems several of these could be coupled to generator sets to produce electricity... The original site of this still exists, maybe, it will be rehabilitated some day...
This is really cool - I never had an inkling of this air-compressing effect! Though I have traveled through Sudbury many times - I think of it as the nickel capitol of North America, though I can't say if that's accurate.
ACCURACY:✅ 1883 - Nickel is first discovered in Canada near Sudbury, Ontario. 1890s - Nickel mining began where it was first discovered in Ontario. 1900s - Sudbury became known as the nickel capital of the world with the establishment of major companies like International Nickel in 1902 and Falconbridge Nickel Mines in 1928. P.S. you could even expand if you wanted to and say the world, but if it is the capitol of the world it is certainly the capitol everywhere else of course XD
Great channel.
Good vibe too. 🎉
HTF did he work out the calculation.. There must be a formula.. Genius 😂
It was converted into a small hyropower plant back in the 1980's. Don't know if it's still operating, though.
It is. I was there 3 weeks ago. :)
Taylor air compressor at the Victoria Copper Mine in Ontonagon, Michigan. 1906
That is quite clever by half!
Interesting! Thanks! :)
This is even more impressive than those giant Persian natural air conditioned spaces.
Why is this technology not more widely employed? I first encountered it in a lecture series by Bill Mollison (considered one of the fathers of ‘permaculture’) in which he casually mentions at the beginning of the series paraphrasing: “if you want free energy use a trompe, there, I’ve solved the world’s energy problems.”
It is only as free as other hydroelectric, wind, solar, wave, tidal energies. You built the plant and hope it rains, shines or blows, tides are pretty reliable though but still not free.
Prevents upstream fish movement and is as rare as good hydropower opportunities.
Engineers live in a box ,a very small box but not as small as the one the bean counters live in and then there are the Conservatines at the banks .
large pressure vessel is needed and although looks simple it has many problems from silt to corrosion when it was built they hardly had flexible tubing 82 percent efficiency what does that mean ? great idea but waterwheel and piston may be easier .
i also suppose that pressure will be quite low as water unless pipe is extremely long a water wheel is the way to go attached to a compressor pump
we need more towns with names like "cobalt", that's really good
i'm tired of everything having super generic names like "townville"
Place City
Sometimes what you start out mining or noticing in the local geology may not leave your town with the best reputation in later decades, though. There's a bunch of places around the world saddled with the name 'Asbestos', for example.
Naming towns for something the region is known for isn't always a good idea. I'm not moving to Mesocyclone, Kansas.
Thank you ye mighty algorithm for showing me this gem. One sub more, great video!
Thank you for sharing this.
Great presentation, thanks.
Excellent - thanks
This design, wih its very critical ratios, screams to be re investigated using Viktor Schauberger's implosion vortex double helix on the inlet flow !
good to know. thanks for sharing
wow what a contraption! No motor no nothing!
amazing that this such simple tech is still being used I hope it only gets more wide spread one day!
Very interesting!
Great video...👍
a single decimal point is a whole order of magnitude, it is not a testament. however thank you very much for all this, news to me, and valuable information.
That compressed air would be great energy storage and/or generation since it avoids the ecological disruption of ordinary hydroelectric dams
no, it doesn't. a dam is a crucial component of this device, pay attention.
@@tissuepaper9962 Not if it's built on a waterfall, or where there's enough of a slope you could build something like an aqueduct straight out from the head of the water until there's a sufficient fall for it to work. Admittedly that limits where you can place these, but dams aren't always required.
@@shaunp9592 both of the alternatives you mentioned are just as disruptive to river ecology as a low-head dam. You're diverting the natural flow of the stream through mechanisms that the river life cannot pass through without being killed.
@@tissuepaper9962 You don't take all of the flow, only some and return it to the river. Engineer the small distance of riverbed that has less volume of water flowing so there's no/very little effect. (Bring the river banks closer together in that spot so the "flow" is the same, or whatever method works). Or you can have your "totally" natural river and we can use oil or coal to produce the power required, your choice.
@@shaunp9592 I encourage you to do some actual research on the effectiveness of "engineered" rivers instead of hand-waving.
OMG … I am 2 seconds in and started watching because I love to travel down Coleman Township road and follow the giant air line. I’ve never really known how the air plant actually worked. Looking forward to this. :)
❤ from Moose Factory (I went to HS in New Liskeard, my aunt lives in Haileybury.) :)
Thank you for this it’s mine blowing no moving parts free energy
"mine blowing" describes exactly the use of compressed air in mines. is this an unintentionnal pun?
@@skataskatata9236 pun intended
The dam at 1:37 is on the Montreal river in Wisconsin, just north of Saxon.
Amazing info thank you. This technology should be used to generate electricity as well. I want to try it small scale.
Makes me think about the design of the Great Pyramids?!
Inject air at the bottom of a well and it'll bring up water with it. Kind of the reverse here.
Fascinating! Solar and batteries seem silly after this piece!
incredible
With the cost of operating compressors what it is, one would think that hydraulic air compression would be set up wherever practical.
It isn't practical in most places.
The masculine urge to drill holes into funny looking ice and drop water down mine shafts just to see what happens...
Genius.
This is bad ass
82% efficient? There are new developments in high density compressed air storage, particularly to power cars.
Perhaps compressed air plants like this can provide cheap power for these.
Canadians know all there is to know about compressed air.
Ask Terrance & Phillip.
Where are these drawings and old printed photos from?
A lot of them come from this website: www.cobaltmininglegacy.ca/power.php
Very nicely made video about trompes, thanks !! I wonder if some generators could'nt be made for cities uses, with chutes.... or with piped house waters, rain gutters/dirty water chutes from buildings .. ; ) Clean, storable, low tech !! , I soo try a small scale in my bathroom and rain gutter !
Because you invested your life in your house, all you have is a bathroom and a rain gutter
Youre so clever ! @@maxheadroomone
Great video! ..though being off by a factor of 10 isn't exactly "a testament to exacting calculations" but more of a "measure twice, cut once" warning and pointing out the danger of hubris.
30,000,000 ounces of silver?geepers!where does it all go?
Straight to israel!
hot air goes up, so dig hole and free energy
Good ol TVA
I saw a bubbler that used air in a small wet tube to raise water for irrigation. So guess this is kind of the opposite of that
"[A] crazy, two-bit-so-called engineer, self taught, little better than a mechanic with a bunch of wacky ideas."
love it
I bet Mr. Taylor said he would provide 125 PSI air, not 862 Kilopascal air.
I'm wondering what dimension was so critical that it dropped the efficiency of the modern plant so low. It all seems so simple.
So does anyone know what the design error was that caused the efficiency drop in the last example?
At a guess there was not the volume of air captured that should have been????
It's not a new idea. Interestingly, an earlier system was developed for a mine in the UK - Rampgill Mine at Nenthead, Cumbria. If you search for 'Brewery Shaft, Nenthead' you'll find all of the information. At Nenthead they didn't just create compressed air - they also generated electricity using Pelton Wheels.
Smart is as smart does.
What is a kilopascal?? Internet converter says 50 psi and 125 psi respectively for the two figures given. Both sound like fairly standard and typical compressed air pressures.
Wahnsinn, was Menschen mit Verstand und guter Bildung erfunden haben.
I would like to know more about the HAC designed by the Tennessee Valley Authority. I haven't found anything about it on the internet yet. Hope someone can provide a link to the details.
Could you build it on the ocean and use it to drive a desalination plant?
No, the ocean is flat so there's no potential energy difference. You would need to catch the water upstream of a river to get a height difference.
a "single" decimal point error is an error of 10 times the size.
WOW
Geeeze...thanks...You made me look up a kilopascal. 7 kp = 1 psi
He's trying to sound smarter by not useing P.S.I.
😊😊😊
Why isn't this used more?
All the mines are closed now.
Also called a tont
I heard that it was in use in 1560
8:21 WHAT CAUSES THAT SORT OF DROP IN EFFICIENCY WITH A SINGLE Decimal POINT!
I MUST KNOW PLEEESE HELP! (Great video)
Do you understand how much a single decimal place affects things, it's the difference between 1.50 and 15.0
Leave it to a Tennessee engineer to mess it all up, have you seen our highway system in our state?
The geyser could spin a generator.
why were these not more common place?? it seems like such and easy thing to buld for such massive payoffs?
can it turn electrical turbines ? is it more efficient than hydroelectric turbines ?
No, it has to take more steps
Why isn't this method used to produce electrical power?
Sad that the same concept isn't being utilized for ocean wave energy capture. Maybe it's too low of a head to be efficient?
Use the compressed air to generate electricity, renewable,energy sorted….
Pretty hilarious that a "crazy, two-bit-so-called engineer, self taught, little better than a mechanic with a bunch of wacky ideas" can build a successful, low cost compressed air plant that ran like a top for 70 years, but when government engineers attempted to copy his design, they failed miserably.
>misread a decimal point and caused the efficiency to drop from 80 percent to 10 percent
So the efficiency should be off by a factor of ten, because that's how decimal points work.
Dang, they got two percent efficiency for free!
Good call.