Stalin vs Marx: Why communism failed in the Soviet Union | Steve Keen and Lex Fridman
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2022
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Steve Keen: Marxism, C...
Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:
- Weights & Biases: lexfridman.com/wnb
- Skiff: skiff.org/lex
- Indeed: indeed.com/lex to get $75 credit
- NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour
- InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex to get 20% off
GUEST BIO:
Steve Keen is a heterodox economist and author.
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Full episodes playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast
Clips playlist: • Lex Fridman Podcast Clips
SOCIAL:
- Twitter: / lexfridman
- LinkedIn: / lexfridman
- Facebook: / lexfridman
- Instagram: / lexfridman
- Medium: / lexfridman
- Reddit: / lexfridman
- Support on Patreon: / lexfridman - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
In soviet Russia, podcasts listen to YOU!
Fr
😂
Where is Edward Snowden living these days?
They listen to “us”
LOL
I love how much of this conversation got derailed simply because he said “g’day mate”
it is better to derail the conversation than to listen to garbage like "resource constrained ..." and "demand constrained...".
The secret the Wealthy hide from the world is that The market is a free access problem and if you do not want the inevitable 'tragedy of the commons' scenarios on the market and the monopolies it consequently creates then you better ask for laws that set constraints to ensure tragedy of the commons does not happen. The market is a free access problem!
Communists have a bad habit of applying their analysis to capitalism and exempting the analysis towards socialism. Greed, stupidity, selfishness, sociopaths, etc etc exists in both systems.
First, I don't think that's true, if by socialism and communism you mean states which have described themselves in these terms. There have been plenty of Marxist analyses of the USSR and other such places.
Second, if you're referring to more theoretical conceptions of society, we can analyse capitalism because it already exists and we're living in it. We can't analyse a state of affairs that hasn't yet come about, and whose particulars we can't possibly have any knowledge of. Having said that, everyone on the left criticises everyone else on the left all the time. To the point that it actually gets very tedious.
Capitalists tend to criticize marxism without ever having read a single line written by Marx.
@@frepi or they only read the manifesto, which is basically little to nothing on marx's other works.
@@monkeymox2544 he said _communists_ not _communist states_
His point is that individuals who profess themselves to be communist tend to have extreme double standard when it comes to comparing their chosen ideology to capitalism.
Not only that but centralizing power, means centralizing greed and selfishness, and giving it literal weapons.
Australians are just British people that have progressed further in the tech tree.
They put their talent points into tech
Looking at the authoritarian nightmare that is Australia that's nothing but a joke.
Nah they opened concentration camps over the coof.
Actually Australia has highest rate of multiculturalism in the World...
It’s well known here your ability to code is closely linked to how much Vegemite on toast you smash
Lex, your interviews are always thought provoking, but I must say I really do prefer the long interview format v snippets of the interview.. It breaks the mood and depth of thought being provoked/induced by your guest. Thank you for all your brilliant interviews . Please keep them coming. Steve Keen was no exception to your high standards. Cheers :)
Lex Friedman talks so slow , Ben Shapiro talks so fast . I wonder what a conversation between them will look like ? 🤔
Ben is a better guest on a podcast like Rogan. I think he is too partisan and religious to really have a good conversation with Lex.
Could it be substances? Downers vs uppers?
@@Joe-sg9ll ben isn't that bad. by that logic, nobody has original ideas because it's all been said before. i would at least reccomend listening to things that he's featured in, like the JRE podcasts or his talk with Lewis Howes where partisanship isn't the main focus.
In ireland we use the word Deadly in the same way.
answer comes at 7:30
Lex friedman has such a kind face. Warms my heart.
"Deadly" means really good here in Ireland too, connection perhaps?
The underlying culture is overseen. If you have violent, damaged people you breed a violent damaged society. That's why you see same systems represents them self in different ways at different places - capitalism can be nice or bad east block can be fucked up or okay(ish) just by the difference between the culture of Romania and Czechia. Capitalist Russia is still bearing the whole history of the country - economics takes it self way to important. A society can only change if it is able to be aware of its subconscious mind.
Wise words from a wise fish 💯😅
Keen is representing one (and an initial) variant under the aegis of socialism, that of the state replacing owners. This is not the only tradition within “socialism”, as Richard Wolff would remark. There is a distinct thread that looks to democracy in the workplace, which is the thread Wolff works towards. In that line, markets and competition all exist, with some elects taken out (eg health care payer) but the primary beneficiaries are the workers themselves instead of an effective aristocracy.
Here in this conversation I think the discussion of economic systems still lumps several very distinct concepts under monolith labels (capitalism and socialism) that are too laden with historical conflict and ideology to be useful.
As an example, Wolff would be more focused on how value and goods are distributed, and who decides. Instead of an authoritarian elite class making all the decisions and primarily benefitting from it, just as government once was, everyone involved has a say. Here coops or employee stock ownership embody that notion. When employees are shareholders, the meaning of shareholder value utterly changes; employees would not vote to destroy themselves (usually).
Humanity is always a tension between different interests and factions. They can be resolved by rules, and by reforming factions that change the balance of power and even the context between factional interaction (like employee ownership).
Wow, sounds brilliant. Now go name one example.
@@80teg Of the state owning everything? It wasn’t socialism, but the Inca empire. Read the wiki.
As for other kinds of socialism, think of every employee coop, there are thousands of them, or a legal, or accounting firm consisting of partners who own in common. ER doctors used to be that way, but now consolidation into traditional normal business structure and financialization has driven waiting times from 5 hrs to 15 and doctors, the most strident independents to unionize in some cases. Nobody willingly gives up their agency to serve an overlord, but that’s what a regular business is, a warmed over king and his cronies, strip mining a company for money, then cashing out.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Glasweigans do great negative - positive patter
With Aussie rules football, the lack of pads, tackles from all directions (massive field with no offsides, so players are everywhere), and tackles while kicking, makes the brutality comparable to American football, but it's not stop-start. For instance, American football rules try to protect the kicker, but AFL players get tackled while kicking frequently. Also, every AFL position requires similar skills, so you don't get drastic differences in skillsets and body types. It's *like* a much more skillful and somewhat less brutal form of rugby.
gafl
AFL is not considered a rugby sport bud !! but it is football !!
I'm sorry, but doesn't that question infer that communism actually worked somewhere?
Because it hasn`t worked anywhere & every country that gone down that path has failed miserably !
Define worked? People had jobs, healthcare, housing, education and the USSR was the first political entity of humanity in space.
They cracked some heads, no doubt about it but the bolsheviks were authoritariam and planted the seeds of their own destruction. Socialism has in many ways already won. (Labour laws, healthcare in most industrualised countries, increased share of the production (this has been laggin the last 40 years and we should take it further. Give workers a say in the management of their workplaces by giving them a larger share of the profit and representation on the board of directors).
Karl Marx is like Adam Smith, a classical economist and a political philosopher. Why would you become a dogmatic marxist? Lenin is not Marx nor did they follow his ideas to the letter (that's virtually impossible)
What Marx offered was an analysis of capitalism and he was in so many ways exactly right. He envisaged a future society where exploitation was severely reduced and the means of production were increasingly in the control of the people who work there
Not fighting for your share of the pie is silly, and what they want is you hating on socialism, barely understanding it
Communism has never been achieved anywhere.
@@xDemonTechThe USSR collapsed, an economic bubble doesn't last forever
List of top 10 successful communist countries.
Thanks for reading
Spoiler: human nature, hunger for power and dictatorship, that's why. Real communism is only possible in Utopia
Communism as a system is unsustainable
Marx would not be able to pull off the beard with an Aussie accent! Literal tears 😂 haha
Did you know that he was pen pals with Abe Lincoln?
You should see Ned Kelly, he had some Marx in him too
_I think it's not the destination, it's the jo_
I was hoping for something deeper. I don't think the question was really answered.
That is because he is sympathetic to Marx, Keynes and believes in his heart its the proper way forward.
Why communism failed in USSR? Where communism didnt fail?
where is the pure communist country?
@@durexuncensored the Great Leap Forward 1958-1962
@@ryanc6 there is a story about a winner in politic only,in every country leaders had ever done wrong,ex,USA wanna kill assange now
Exactly!
@@durexuncensored tHaTs nOt rEaL cOmmUniSM! Lol....ok commie....
Hahaha Love that as a Rugby player
He just admitted capitalism is superior to socialism, communism
If Karl Marx had an Australian accent lmao.
Ya really I too feel accent has a lot to do.
Which British accent sounds pompous or Brilliant? Me and Michael caine dont sound pompous but we are brilliant 😂👑
The West Midlands of England alone has dozens of accents. There are more British accents than there are people in Australia (Not sheep though).
@@caratacus6204 I suppose if your from up there you can tell,I can never tell the difference between them, they all sound like noddy holder to me 😂😂 I actually really like the accent though 👍
Read Grover Furr's books on the history, he explains it all.
Modern America sees no failure 🤷♂️
Thats deadly, hahhaa thats so true even for us canadiens esp a native canadian, thats a compliment
Wonder if Alex went to Ukraine.
Thanks to rugby I was diagnosed with epilepsy at 27 and onset dementia at 29 ♿
My condolences, mayne. Stay off the sugar at all costs. Seriously.
I cant belive this question is getting asked un- ironicly.
Again.
Terrifying. Total failure of the educational system.
@@justinmj6586 I graduated in 2014, never once was communism/Marxism mentioned, even skipped over The Cold War. If I ever have kids no way in Hell they'll be going to public school.
My friend, the assumptions you hold most sacred are also the most unchallenged. If theres anything I think we should respect lex for, its his desire to CHALLENGE perspectives by letting others speak what they believe, regardless of how he feels about those beliefs based on a first impression; otherwise, if we refuse to even engage with the factors which drive these ideas in the first place, we risk falling to willful ignorance and self censorship, letting others tell us who our enemies are, and for history to continue rhyming. It should not matter what you stand for, questions asked in good faith should be allowed. Here I criticize any propaganda or suppression of information, whether disseminated by a state or some other form of elite. I think you should too. Have a nice day.
“Marxists share your vocabulary but they don’t share your dictionary.” James Lindsay.
The Soviet Union COULD have produced refrigerators to meet demand, however it was in an arms race with the West due to deep fear the wealthy had in the West about a large country not allowing massive private control of production. Mr. Keen is brilliant but I don't think he had time to really consider this answer as deeply as needed. Anyone who has researched how the Soviet Union built a home for every family in the country understands that the system was incredible when focused on a goal. There still is almost no homelessness in the Eastern Bloc countries due to that massive building program and it's many decades after the Soviet Union collapsed.
Because Communism will always work NEXT time.... right?
Whereas capitalism is constantly in the process of failing, but gets a free pass for some bizarre reason. Millions dead due to capitalist exploitation, rich getting richer and poor getting poorer, capitalist nations pursuing imperialist foreign policies, resources being depleted and the climate devastated, increasing levels of mental health issues, alienation getting worse and worse, continual economic crises. But yeah, let's give it another chance, again.
Or perhaps the versions of capitalism we've had for a couple of centuries weren't _real_ capitalism, eh?
@@monkeymox2544 Capitalism has been corrupted and subverted by Globalist Neoliberalism. No doubt about that.
Long Live Stalin
Everywhere and every time it is tried it leads to pain and misery,
USA has invaded more countries and killed more people than every other country combined since 1945. Is that capitalism fault or the disgusting leaders?
@ZebraManno1 What the hell does this have to do with Peterson. The man himself states that his economic views are not the predominant ones. Most economists do not have a positive view on Marx and Marxist theories. Even the formally communist countries like China and Russia have rejected them now.
@ZebraManno1 talk about the definition of ad hominem. you know nothing of me. I stated a verifiable fact. but by your logic- we should all listen to Milton Friedman or Hayek? Two Nobel laureate economists?
@@sheedy9 Agreed, but USA did not invade in the name of Capitalism. Which is, as defined by Marx, nothing more than private ownership of the means of production. Unlike with communism which, as per marx, requires the dictatorship of the prols.. it is a ideology of force and murder until you destroy all that object. Then you will have utopia. sorry, not good. Does marx make good critiques of capital- absolutely- and open minded people should hear all sides. But facts be facts when comparing the fruits of both systems
@@SpayNeut.Always marx was a democrat, ussr wasn't. He died 80 years before ussr. He said the working class will revolt. He made observations. You need to read him, or study Richard Wolfe. You just don't know anything about it, no offence.
The difference between capitalism and communism is that communism failed once.
communism failed literally every single time and capitalism almost always won.
@@nobu1730 that's why their printing money!?
@@cristiandemirel1918 printing money is bad but nowhere near as bad as killing 10s of millions of your own people.
@@nobu1730 if we go by the same methodology, the opposition system kills 25 million every single year, in fact since its development from 15th century onwards, it has killed more people than that are alive today (more than 8 billion people).
The communists always give accuses
Mad Tankies in the comments. Love it!
Tell me you know nothing about rugby without telling me you know nothing about rugby
So Stalin saw what the USA and the rest of the world were doing and wanted to make as good of a progress as the rest of the countries
And in an idealistic kind of naive mindset, wanted to lead the country to ‘catch up’ and be as great as the others…
And it lead to the burn out of the people, he didn’t budget, he ended up having to take the private assets of its citizens and make them work in gulags and slave labour.
So this is what happens when you have an incompetent inspired dreamer…
Interesting. I’ve always heard of Stalin and socialism/communism and what it leads to but now I know. Being inspired and dreaming without competence is not a good outcome.
I love Steve Keen's take on Marxism and Economics but he's got to learn more about rugby! Terrible comments!
“Communism”, or rather the path to communism, didn’t even last 3 months.
Imagine Jordan Peterson debating this guy
@@Knucklehead4400 sowell seems to actually have read marx
@@Knucklehead4400 Sowell will crumble, definitely knows more than crack head Peterson
@@RockMacDonald23 but still deliberately misrepresents him, from what I've seen.
@@monkeymox2544 yeah true lol.
Communism sounds wonderful in theory but impossible to execute do too human nature. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
That's the sin nature, this is why before Communism can be established religion has to be done away with and the idea the people are inherently good has to be implemented "they're not evil, they were just opressed" is the common excuse, we're much of it on the west, specially American. Something to be extremely warry off cause even the news outlets, social medias and everything portrayed has begun to implement these ideologies to a certain degree. Atheism will always lead back to Communism or socialism to a certain extent.
"human nature" is not a well defined concept, & throughout history people born in a specific time period and grown accustomed to the norms of that time period rationalized those norms by assuming those must be the norms which best align with human nature; a nature which they then proceed to define based on the particular circumstances they grew up in. Slave societies made this claim, feudal societies made this claim, capitalist and socialist societies make this claim. It is meaninglessness. Additionally, if we are willing to recognize the successes of the dominant economic system in some countries like US Canada etc and not the "failures" in Congo, Mexico, Columbia, Sri Lanka, etc, then we must also be willing to recognize the successes of socialist revolutions in some places (Yugoslavia, China, USSR, Vietnam) and not others like Nicaragua. Of course, things arent so black and white that we can so arrogantly claim that one thing has absolutely and universally "succeeded" & the thing we dont like has 100% failed. As citizens of the world it is our responsibility to assume things to be more complex, lest we fall for propaganda, no matter what "side" it propagandizes for. Have a nice day
Communism isn't about absolute power..
@@philipdamian7346 word salad 🥗
No. Human nature is incredibly nebulous, and throughout history the ruling classes have always conveniently defined it as the thing that keeps them in power. In the ancient world it was believed that rather than a universal human nature, some people were naturally subservient and others natural masters. It was of course the masters who thought this.
In ancient China, it was believed that it was human nature to have a place in society, and that happiness came from knowing your place and acting in accordance with it. It was the people whose place was somewhere near the top who found this most convenient.
In Feudal Europe, it was believed that human nature was to live in accordance with the will of God, who had ordained a handy hierarchy that it was blasphemous to reject. Again, it was mainly the Lords and Kings who found this most useful.
In our modern age, we're told it's human nature to be greedy and self serving. Mainly to the benefit of that portion of the population who have most of the wealth and would like to keep it.
There is no single 'human nature'. There are human propensities, which can be fostered or discouraged. Marx believed that human nature is essentially creative, and that our creativity is stifled under capitalism. He also belived that we're naturally cooperative. Do you seriously deny either of these points? To the extent that he ignored our propensity for selfishness, he was wrong to do so. But he wasn't wrong to belive that society can be built on the basis of the better side of our nature. Its also not clear that Marx did deny that side of us, he just chose not to emphasise it. It's also never been clear to me precisely why some people think you'd have to ignore that side of humanity in order to have socialism or communism. Self-interest is perfectly compatible with a system that attempts to create maximally free individuals through collective action. You can engage in collective action for selfish reasons.
Lex Fridman - Roganesque podcast if Joe Rogan had an IQ over 110.
He needs to read the road to serfdom.
How Ussr failed when it was the 2nd superpower and defeated Nazis? Usa and West had all the technology and advanced science when Russia was very poor
It lasted just 69 years, less than one lifespan in the west. How is that not a failure?
@@tom4115 jUsT 69 yEaRs… and you failed to affirm the significance of The USSR’s poor circumstances - as articulated by OP (technology and advance science) - given their dominance over the superior Nazis.
@@cuervos69 it's an honest question, 69 years is so short. how is it not a failure? shouldn't an effective state be sustainably and resiliant?
@@tom4115 Socialism was the first attempt of an equal society and a new political system. How many times a "democracy" tried before kingdoms amd emperors established. In Italy democracy and aristocrasy chamged for 4 centuries. The France revolution happened and then kings returned. 69 years in history is very little time. History doesn t end. And we forget how the west accumulated the wealth. Colonies, slavery, neocoloniasm and the credit system now. Usa has the advantage to literally just print money and defuse the debt around the world.
@@ThePatata200 was it an equal society though? did you visit the soviet union? my parents were communists until they visited. they said it was grim and grey, and depressing, and full of poverty. And that everything they had heard about it was a lie. i live in Australia, one of, if not the most, equal country in the history of the world. And this our first go. Over 120 years now. seems alright.
The thing Steve Keen misses out on is the effects of ruthless foreign policy of the biggest economy in the world
“In the Soviet Union”?
No the question is “Why Communism is destined to fail every single time”
Every single time??
China? Cuba? Vietnam? North Korea?
The problems they face are from American imperialist's, yet they are still around.. For those that failed, an imperialist nation led coups & assassinations. Like with Thomas Sankara or Patrice Lamumba.
Example: If you work hard on repairing a car, and I continue to try to murder you AND sanction ANY car parts shop from selling you products the ENTIRE time, you probably won't finish that car.
American MSM is currently ramping up China fear mongering, as they become the world's super power.. yet ppl like you sit around saying "Communism will always fail" because you don't comprehend what Communism/Socialism/Marxism truly is. You know what America (Communism's main enemy) wants you to know.
Actually that's an easy answer - because the US government didn't allow it. I don't say it would not fail anyway but the cold war also simply had no place for experiments outside of those two blocks.
I also think communism fails to recognize human nature. It don't use the inherent drive and inventions from the people. There is a lot of other problems with pure capitalism so that is not better.
Communisms goal is also to low, a society should not only feed and keep the people alive. The people also have to live and be able to express themself and work for there own goals.
Typical, long winded and overly complex way of saying "it wasn't real Communism, wasn't real socialism."
@@AtomicMushroomz no Communism is the greatest evil in this world, its a disease that kills tens of million where ever it touches. In 100 years 150+ million have died at its hands in its name, more than any religion in the world combined.
*Much like the capitalist of today, we don't have real capitalism.* 🤣
It wasn't. If you don't believe us, try proving us wrong.
because it wasn't. Nothing in Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto is every applied to SU. "Oh the No True Scotsman Fallacy again" Do you know I defend Catholics when they say "molesting boys isn't real catholcism" because nowhere in the bible does it say touching little boys is ok. Same thing with communism; nothing the SU did was ever written in those books
@@selfreli7325 _"Much like the capitalist of today, we don't have real capitalism."_
Ha, very true! But it's easy to define real capitalism: honor of private property, and total freedom to voluntarily contract and exchange it, absent force and fraud. AND the entire theory of how this produces material prosperity is clear, precise, and sound.
Socialists, on the other hand can tell you NEITHER (1) what "real socialism is," NOR (2) how it is supposed to produce prosperity.
Steve is a great economist, and a good person
Steve has no idea about sporting codes, several years ago The AFL (Aussie Rules) & the NRL (Rugby League) had promotional boxing torment 10 matches & the Rugby boys beat the living hell out of them !!
Socialism fundamentally gives power to the top politicians who then have self interest to put forth policies to maintain their power
That's an extremely low res view of Socialism..
@@xDemonTech yes, but you have to see how high resolution conceptual theories are applied in the real world because ultimately they are practiced by ppl and ppl are messy with emotions and biases and self interests.
@@xDemonTech The universe rewards results, not intentions.
@@smdanny1 of course people are messy. Socialism is way more than the USSR, it's labour power, people power against the owning class.
Simple socialism would be a progressive tax system for example. Do you want the oligarchs to increasingly control everything? The banksters and billionaires?
Socialism is for the "commons", our shared infrastructure, public utilities and social services.
The workers produce the goods and deliver the services, but only get a small part of what they produce (this varies of course but generally is true in capitalism and was more extreme under feudalism), the bourgeoisie, the owning class, has increasingly hijacked our political system to serve the instead of the general population. Socialism is a tradition which will keep evolving, and has many empirically proven ways of reducing inequality and increasing the nations productive capacity and well being
@@LB-py9ig we wouldn't have an eight hour work week if it weren't for socialism, no saturdays of and no labour laws to make sure your employer isn't completely abusing you
I didn’t sign up to this channel to hear AFL propaganda.
I’m sorry, but hearing Lex say “bastard” in an Aussie accent is one of the sexiest things I’ve seen/heard. 🤷♂️
Throw the Biden and Obama administration in this mix.
"Stalin vs Marx" is like say The Pope vs Jesus. In both cases one would not exist without the other
You are clueless
Stalin wasn't a Marxist, lenin was. You don't know things.
@@sheedy9 pretty sure Stalin would disagree with you
@@deason2365 he literally hated Marxism. He was a literal authoritarian dictator. The opposite of what marx wanted.
@@sheedy9 Also Jesus wasn't a catholic, was the point there.
Had he listed a single communist system which was successful, we’d likely mark this man as a genius. Instead he utilized circular logic and wound up disapproving the simple socialist system simply referencing the Cuban system which relies on capitalism to survive in a socialist society.
It took a monster to kill a monster, so if not for Stalin, we'd all be speaking German!
nothing with communism,USA wanna kill Assange ,so,there is story about winner in politic only
So far the most plausible comment in this comment feed.
Not true.
@@durexuncensored US needs something to scare people from challenging the Status quo! Just like they made it either Trump or Biden, there is nobody else among 350 million Americans who are capable of running the nation! Or,Republicans and Democrats are the only two parties that have a proper handle on American politics and anything else is just undemocratic!
@@Joe-sg9ll hahaha good one! We released an Antimonster more vicious than anything we could imagine! An Army of Zombies thinking that reinventing a wheel is a revolution (because it turns)
Stalin was based
Lex Fridman is not a genius.
Whenever I hear him speak I wonder how anyone thinks he’s smart. He can barely form a coherent question.
Jelly?
@@billjohnson6863 also jelly?
But dose have something you don't have a PhD
@@josefandres55A PhD in Philosophy lol not computer science.
Karl Marx never, in ANY of his body of literary work, advocated for an authoritarian interpretation & implementation of his philosophy, i.e., the Bolsheviks and Stalinism, Fkn clowns 🤡
I always think of this when someone says communism doesn't work. It wasn't actually attempted. There is no authoritarian leader in Marxist philosophy. Capitalism is a form of slavery. People are always going to be exploited when their labor is equal to a low wage.
Of course. I'm sure the Dictatorship of the Proletariat would be all unicorns and roses in his mind.
The problem is not what he advocated for, it’s that you have to use authoritarian control to prevent free people from forming their own markets.
Communism has to be enforced because it's such a stupid idea
Neither does Marx describe how socialism/communism is supposed to produce prosperity---he simply assumes prosperity. Then, Marx forbade his followers from asking such questions. Turns out, people won't work if they won't be rewarded commensurately to their efforts. Machine guns are necessary. Of course, Marx simply assumes everyone will be happy to work within his utopian system, and didn't bother himself to trouble much further into it. THAT sounds like a clown.
Socialism is responsible for the greatest rise in quality of human life and economic development in human history-that especially includes the USSR and PRC.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Your joking right !! It`s biggest form of failure there is & the quality of human life goes down 10 fold. Your on drugs mate. All communist & Socialist countries live a second rate life I`ve experienced it close up !
Half of all humans left poverty in the three decades between now and the collapse of the Soviet Union. Capitalism did that.
Lol
With an economic bubble any country improves, after the bubble bursts everything goes downhill, like the USSR 1991
Fjb