15:07 In fact, insects do distinguish what's native and what's not - there's plenty of solitary bee species that are highly specialised and need pollen from certain native plants to raise their larvae. There are a lot of butterfly species as well that need certain native plants as food for their caterpillars. Plants and insects have co-evolved for thousands of years and a lot of insect species completely depend on certain native plant species. They'll take nectar from any flower, sure, but they can't breed without the native plants. I agree with most of what's been said in this video, but the part about insects not caring about native or non-native in simply not true.
Came here to say the same thing. If you like nesting birds, grow native plants. Most baby birds are fed on immature insects since they're soft. If you don't have the right plants for butterflies, etc. to lay eggs on, you'll have less bird food. I can count on two hands how many butterflies I saw last year so I'm very concerned about this. I'm going to be adding a lot of native plants to my yard next year. There are websites that let you look up native plants and how many/which insects rely on them to lay their eggs
Absolutely, one ‘beings’ weed is another ‘beings’ home. This is one of the worries of an unstable climate. I’ve heard people say, things do adapt and have adapted to changes in the earth climate, but they’ve taken millennia to do so not 50-100 years!
In the name of self-suffcieny I'd say anything goes, well nearly anything providing the species isn't inherently invasive. How many UK gardens have non-natives for ornamental purposes, it makes more sense having them self-suffciency. If the goal is nature restoration, or partial restoration, you almost certainly have to go native, but not always. Horsechestnut is a non-native tree which has become naturalised and works well for ecology. Always an interesting discussion. Keep up the good work!
These are some great points. What is native even - Denmark, for example, was wiped clean 20.000 years ago. Natives before and after looked completely different. I like to divide into three categories. Native plants - which is only really truly relevant for wildlife. Some butterflies NEED a certain host plant. You cant sub that. Some bees NEED certain flower types. You cant sub that. But native carrots, sod that. Every crop we grow for our own direct benefit is modified to hell and back. Then there are non natives. I have some flowering bushes that are only there for their flowers. They are not native. They BURST with bumblebees in May. Thats a good bush in my book. But then you have the invasives. Non native plants that directly outcompete your 'indigenous' plants. We have several trouble makers here. Japanese Knotweed is a prime example. If you only look once, its a perfect plant: can grow anywhere, is edible and a super tasty springtime addition to the vegetable plate. Doesnt need much looking after. Its quite pretty too. But then you start to see that it spreads, and spreads, and spreads, and that the roots go several meters underground, and that they can lie dormant there for 5 years and then come again. And they completely overshadow everything, and if left unchecked nothing could germinate underneath their closed canopy. If humans disappeared from earth today, in 200 years Denmark would be one big desert of japanese knotweed - and whichever animals could eat them. So as with everything else in life, the story is so much more complicated, and great care has to be taken not to completely smash natural ecosystems with a cool new perennial that acn suddenly grow in your climate.
Did you know that the so-called "good bush in my book" may not be of value, even though you see insects around at the moment? As you mentioned though, new varieties of flowering shrubs are on the market constantly. Unfortunately, the promoted, higher-priced double-flowering, non-native shrubs have nothing available as the proboscis of the insect may not have magically evolved at the profitable pace of new plant variety introductions at local nurseries, resulting in the extinction of that insect. World wide insect decline is 75-85 percent, and this is a huge problem for predators. Bird populations for one. If you doubt me, take the time to check how many plants the nurseries you shop at carry local native plant species.
@@asbjorgvanderveer5050 I am quite lucky that several plant nurseries in my country have entire sections dedicated to native flowers, shrubs, and trees. I also place high value on natives. The "good bush" cannot stand alone as it never the first thing that should be planted. I have planted several butterfly larvae host plants, have more coming in, and loads of native pollinator specific flowers. And then I also have my lush trumpet bush, and if the bumblebees powerforage in that bush, there's more nectar in all the specific flowers for the specific solitary bees. And I do know about the plummet of insects. Its a huge worry, and part of the reason I spend so much effort getting flowers into my garden space.
I am in U.K. ( from India) I like to grow vegetables I used to eat there and which we don’t get most of The Times. It’s good challenge, it’s weather dependent but when it works out well it’s good moral boosting.
I really appreciate this balanced discussion of native/non-native trade offs. Eucalyptus is an interesting one, that I have been wanting to plant where I live (West Coast of Canada), but with some hesitation. I lived in Ecuador for many years where eucalyptus was introduced by colonists and thrived in the Andean region. It has profoundly influenced the landscape, economy, aritability, and water retention of the country. It grows fast and straight, so it is a wonderful wood for building, (most buildings there are done with eucalyptus and brick), it also burns well. Lots to consider with plants like this. I also appreciate Dan's comments about how if we insist on keep our own land 'pristine' are we just moving the problem and load to another area or region. This is something I think about often in an endeavor to live ethically.
I'm Australian, from the state of Victoria, where bushfires happen every summer, and huge deadly fires every few years. Eucalypts are native here. There are hundreds of species, with different requirements and adaptations. Some are indigenous to the tropical north, others to the temperate south, some to the high snowy alpine areas, and others to arid desert. Even the one species can vary in it's fire risk depending on where it's planted. The Sydney Blue Gum is only moderate risk in the climate around Sydney, but planted in more temperate Victoria it sheds streamers of bark during peak fire season which become flaming torches flying ahead of a fire front. Also bear in mind that while most Eucalypts can be forced into rapid growth in plantations, in the wild they can live up to a thousand years, and unless planted too close together trees won't necessarily grow straight - they are more likely to branch and twist. You need to consider what you want to grow them for. Most are useless as a windbreak. For building timbers blue gum or mountain ash are good as they have long straight trunks. Spotted gum has beautiful timber that is often used for flooring and furniture. River red gum is THE best for firewood as it is a slow grower producing very dense timber which burns hot for hours.
I really appreciate this interview, because the conversation comes up frequently about native non-native and invasive in the gardening world everywhere. Obviously everything that's not native to your zone is not necessarily invasive. I believe " native" with climate change is a very fluid concept. We're always adapting plants to tolerate climates they're not used to so they can be grown more heat tolerant cold tolerant etc, that's not necessarily "native"but absolutely necessary in my opinion. I totally agree being mindful of what you're doing with your portion of Eden been allotted to you is clutch❤
The nicest mistranslation I´ve read a long time. Though I watch your cannel from Germany the headline was a little bit missleading in german: "Native speakers vs. non-native speakers" 😂 Thank you for your informative videos.
I do have to wonder about the logic of planting laurel, rather than starting off something like Hazel especially for the soil. Wouldn't the fall of leaves each year help to enrich the soil further? Wouldn't it provide insect habitat and nutrients for things like slugs and the like as well? Like, I can see the point, but this was a calculation I wanted to do myself. I actively chose Crab Apple, Hazel, Blackthorn, and Wild Cherry not because I was attempting to go native, but because I wanted to think a little further ahead. I mentioned in replying to someone else about Rhododendron which is according to the Woodland Trust near devastating to the recultivation of natural rainforests. Yes, the evergreen might provide shelter and habitat, but surely we need to take a balanced look at certain plants. Planting Cherry Laurel for example could well be a problem in the way Rhods are according to the RHS. So again, don't we owe a responsibility to make a judgement call and be considerate about which non-natives that we are choosing to use?
Yeah, again two of my favourite garden youtubers together! Thanks for this interesting topic! Just to let you know: I’m german and love to watch and listen to your videos in the original english language. I really love the clear way you speak and your voices, and I learned besides all the precious gardening knowledge also a lot gardening vocabulary through your channel! Thank you so much… also for that! But shortly youtube started to synchronize everything automatically! These translations are really horrible, the translation of the title of this video is ridiculous, when I translate it back it would say „Native speaker vs. non native speaker“, I was like 🤔😳… what? Also the voiceover doesn’t fit at all … it sounds so technical, sleepy and boring, that I‘d like to switch off… 😳🙈 Luckily most of the times I can switch off the voiceover, but it switches on again automatically everytime i pause the video. This time it even switched to spanish, and back to german in the middle of the sentence! Everytime I had to restart yt to change back to english… Very annoying… so at one point I didn‘t continue! So sad! I also couldn’t find how to switch back the title and video description into English… (in my settings)… I don’t know if you have many German speaking followers, but I think if they watch your videos, the CAN understand it in english… so I‘m not sure if it’s a win or more a loss if you use the automatic synch at this stage of the Ai…I would prefer, if you woulld deactivate it for your videos! 🙏🏻♥️ Have a great new year! 💫✨🌱🌻🌺
You bring up some interesting questions in this clip. I’m not sure it’s a linear y/n between native/non-native. I think you have to remember that we are seeing things from a male white western narrative of productivity. While most indigenous cultures thrive off global crops, seed markets are dominated by monopolies of all male white westerns business, which unconsciously create a deficit of interest in local species and crops, and therefore a loss in indigenous cultures. (Just ask Vandana Shiva) This has been going on for centuries, no wonder we can’t notice, we no nothing other than this. But on the other other hand you can’t be a purist and label a Cox apple an exotic fruit, it has adapted and been produced for the U.K. environment and has now become part of the ecosystem. If we think about it that way we are all exotic, so the best way to look at it is that we are indigenous when we live in harmony we our environments. Now, eucalyptus is a slippery slop, I can say it because I’m Portuguese, we are losing our native forests to eucalyptus wildfires. The problem is, that after Dan is done with his stewardship the next generations will probably neglect the eucalyptus, and this is when it becomes an issue, because it is private property and governments don’t want to regulate something that goes against ppls freedom to choose, or to make bad choices. Most eucalyptus farms in Portugal where planted by business in 3rd party land as a promise for profit, and are now non productive and are spreading due to neglect. It’s easy to favour a crop that is fast growing. We have a saying: Plant a Strawberry tree for today, an olive tree from your children and a cork tree for your grand children.
Huw, also eucalyptus or other trees can be used for a wind break, in an area that doesn’t affect sunlight in the garden., like the hedges 😊 Love their work❤
Having grown up in the UK and lived and worked in many countries around the world in quite a few industries, I agree. As a teenager I read Oliver Rackham's books on British natural history and how we saw our Islands history completely wrong. Then when I studied Arboriculture, think his name was Phil Valentine made the argument about using the best tree for that place in the urban environment. These two helped shape my view on the natural world, how unnatural just about everywhere is in the world and how we should manage it. At present I'm in the land down under, sitting here looking up towards the Snowie Mountains and theres nothing natural about the bush out there. Out in the bush we should be trying to get a near as natural environment back, including bring back extinct species, introducing some and mechanical management. Even planting deciduous trees (sterile) as fire breaks. The house is on the outskirts of a small rural village in a development on acre plots. The biggest invasive weed I have issues with is nonnative grass that spreads horrendously but people love it, even those that go on about only planting native. Most trees I've planted are for food in someway and now am starting on understory plants. Only a few of these are native, mostly just because I find them interesting rather than been a good food source, Finger Lime seems to be one of the few good ones here. Even though I started only a couple of years ago the garden is already a haven for native species and some nonnative. Most of the trees and shrubs are deciduous, allowing in light in the winter and cool shade in the summer. But also I'm very much against planting highly combustible plants near the house, which many natives are. I've experienced bush fires and have worked in forest fire prevention and I've seen the difference vegetation types can make to survival of houses and sometimes those that live there. I'm all for bringing back large natural areas into what they once were before people and as we developed in those areas. In our modern urban environment best plant for that place, if it's native great but don't be religious about it.
New Zealand also ended up with rats pigs dogs rabbits possums wallabies goats and hedgehogs and we had no mammals , with devastating effects on our ground dwelling birds.
There are plenty of introduced plants that can benefit native species and humans by extending food availability, but if a plant is already recognised as invasive or can easily jump the fence, it shouldn't be planted. Laurel is a prime example. Birds can spread laurel into the countryside from gardens. A usually do a Google search for 'potential invasive' and the plant name, before buying plants. Lots of information out there, RHS for example.
I love in Ireland and couldn't imagine seeing a kitchen garden that didn't have potatoes. I guess the only worry with some species is keeping it contained, think Japanese knotweed
There are hundreds of edible and medicinal native plants in New Zealand. But many require native forest around them to thrive and aren't easily farmable. For example we have a native pepper called horopito that is everywhere in forests (because deer don't eat it), but it's very difficult to farm or grow well at home unless you live in a native forest. Without kumara, yams, taro, wheat, barley, maize, potatoes, apples, grapes, kiwifruit etc there would be no NZ as we know it today. I still plant as many food producing and non-food producing natives as I can get away with in my garden. But I'm not hung up about planting exotics - that bridge was crossed a long time ago.
Hi, I have just received my eucalyptus seeds from Australia. After watching your a few weeks ago I have had a total rethink. What variety of banana plant is that? Do you have to protect it in the winter? Any ideas for drought loving crops that thrive in sand and aggregate?
That laurel hedge couldve been done with yew and youd have the same results with a little bit more time, less risk of it escaping and tons more of ecological worth. Where i live laurel has become a real problem in some regions where it is starting to push out natives in the undergrowth of forests. A lot of laurel hedges are too dense for birds to even nest in after only a few years of cutting, they break through rooting barriers, the flowers and fruit have little to no ecological worth... theres not many plants i hate more Agree on a lot of things said in the video but Laurel is the devil and i will die on that hill😂
Eucalyptus is my pet hate. They transform lush areas into arid, make the soil barren (they release toxins to prevent competition), are very invasive, remove 200 gallons of water from the soil per day each, are a fire hazard, etc. He has made a mistake here. If he wanted fast timber, then he should have harvested them by now - they can be coppiced, which is better.
@UllricLex ich auch nicht! Ich brauche weder Untertitel noch Ai Stimme! Aber yt entscheidet das übergriffigerweise für mich und stellt es bei einigen englischen Garten TH-camrn an. 😠 Wenn ich es manuell ausstelle, stellt er es bei nächster Gelegenheit wieder um. Manchmal mitten im Satz. 🙄 Neuerdings auch auf spanisch... Ich verliere gerade die Lust mir meine liebsten Garten TH-camr anzuschauen...
One observation I would make is that insects are capable of changing host plants over time if they are under pressure. This can lead to the development of new, slightly different species if the original species/variety is not able to adapt. That is part of how evolution happens. With climate change, this is going to be happening whether we like it or not. However, with our short life spans we are looking at things through a different lens than "nature" so to speak. For instance, monarch butterflies may go extinct eventually even if we start planting more milkweed right now, but a new, closely related species may emerge that has a different host plant - it's just, most of us or none of us will be around to see it happen. An invasive, in many cases, is bad because it eventually wipes out other life that is much more beneficial to the larger ecosystem of an area, but that is not the same as a non-native, although in some cases they do intersect. You could have a native plant (or animal/insect) that because of climate or other factors, suddenly becomes more dominant and could be considered invasive depending on where it is and what it is doing. As a scientist, I find all of this fascinating and as someone with that POV, I always try to keep an open mind about everything and base my decisions on a preponderance of evidence vs what we just don't know for sure yet. Sometimes that is a fairly easy equation to understand, but sometimes it is much more complicated. At the pace we are going with overpopulation and destroying our planet in so many different ways, I'm not sure any of it is going to matter for humans at the end of the next few generations because I'm not sure there will be any left. But we all keep plugging along as best we can.
I have built a few ecosystems (gardens), and within a few years, pretty much doubled the wildlife. The problem isnt that we have non-natives, its that vast stretches of the planet are monocultures, and that we cant wait to chop down any of the old-growth forests we have left. Next to Mr. Chainsaw, Mr. Rhododendron is trivial. If the UK was still covered with oak forests, the rhodos wouldnt be a huge problem. Concerning, sure. But not catastrophic. The problem is that we only have tiny pockets of wild forest left, and so a tiny rhodo invasion is now catastrophic to our entire wild forest inventory. Look at the Scottish Highlands - its all bare heather and grass now, where it used to be lush forests. So the solution to these problems is rewilding large areas. What people do in gardens is not a problem. What I do, is to reintroduce native species where I can, while also growing non-natives. So in the British Isles, for example, I planted (and naturalized) primroses, cowslips, bluebells, solomon's seal, ferns, wild daffodils, and whenever something new arrived by itself, I encouraged it. Was it all perfectly natural? No, but it was better than what was there before (field with docks, ragweed). Now its a mixed forest, mostly birch, but also wild cherry, oak, beech, sycamore, pine, hawthorn, blackthorn, and all sorts of stuff allowed in the background, like nettles, blackberry, dandelions, hawkweed, and so on. In essence, its about maximizing diversity, putting in birdboxes, not spraying aphids at first sight, and not killing every last weed. I put in upturned pots for the bumblebees, use a compost pile (full of life), let the grass grow long in spring (allowing the bulbs to die down naturally and generating lots of cover.. And what is a couple of miles away? hundreds of acres of monocrops. I know what the problem is, and its not non-natives, except large spruce plantations and fields of wheat. So what is the solution? We're already doing it to some degree - fallowing land, replanting hedgerows, and helping nature to recover. Spraying less. In short, adding more natives to the landscape, not rooting out every last non-native. I used laurel in places because its a great screen, also cover for wildlife. A purely deciduous garden is bare, cold and windy in winter. Having an evergreen thicket in spots helps that. Sure, holly and yew can work also (although yew is poisonous), and we had those too. I like to plant oregano and buddleia for the bees. Also, borage. Here in California, fennel is considered an invasive non-native, but its a major food source for Swallowtail butterflies. So its all about balance. In a plant gets invasive, I find that lawnmowers work well. The native bramble would overtake a garden in England until its the only thing left, if it could. Fun Fact, where I live in CA now, we have wild parrots gone native. Also, massive flocks of crows. The parrots eat the palm fruit, the crows live on garbage and begging from people eating at outside tables. Overall, I say increase wild areas, and near towns, plant more natives. In the wild areas, exterminate non-natives; it gardens and other cultivated lands, it matters not.
The most significant statement is his relating "80%" loss of crop to animals. That's incredible. I lose 50%, and that's very frustrating. I watch a lot of TH-cam gardening videos, and I've never seen a good answer to this problem.
I was banned from a native plant forum because I suggested planting almonds on a 6' high berm created to level a horse corral in a hot, dry 9a environment in northern California. MIlitancy in the 'only native' crowd is very accurate.
I'm not sure arguing that all the veg we grow can be considered in the same category as bringing in a flowering plant or tree that could become evasive. Not saying it's bad to bring in plants into your yard that are bad, I do it, I have tons that don't grow out in the wild here. But you certainly have to be careful and control those that crawl, creep and climb, there's plenty of vines and ground cover people get that take over and when your gone if the next generation knows nothing and do nothing is when they become a problem. I have a neighbor that has 2 types of vines that he didn't plant, it was planted decades ago and the whole neighborhood deals now, and actively removes it every year or it will bring down trees and bushes if left alone.
My TH-cam-interface automatically translates the title into German "Muttersprachler vs. Nicht-Muttersprachler" which means native speaker vs. non-native speaker. Naturally, I was confused when I saw that
coppiced Hasel and Doormice go together and i do wonder what Eucalyptus does to the other beneficial undergrowth given it's intensly aromatic and we know many non natives and natives too block others from growing. let's not impatiently spread any invasives just because we are in a hurry to save our planet. I planted a birch 7 years ago and took it down last year at 6+ metres high ,that seems a decent yeild as a crop tree
Just want to comment that it seems ot me that Your comments are solely thinking about what benefits us humans which I get because this is a food channel. But we wont have food if we dont have pollinators. Native bees and butterflies will eat nectar from non native plants but they wont lay their eggs unless they have their special plant, think monarch and milkweed. Birds will next anywhere but their babies need catepillars, thousands of them, to fledge. So we need mots and butterflies for the birds.
Are there really people who think they should only eat native plants? Can you imagine just hazelnuts nettles and berries with the odd tuber from the marshes! A la Ray Mears...(thanks Ray!love you)) Eucalptus trees don't seem to seed around here but if it gets warmer they might.In Madiera they're invasive- i saw a solid carpet of grey seedlings in the woods. Years ago, in a Cannington College tropical greenhouse, there was a taro plant and a fellow student, from Africa said that they ate those at home. I took a bite from a stem and it was like eating rosehips, with an extreme tingle like little spikes in my throat! No wonder the pests leave it alone! Thankyou for the films.good to see you out and about. Cheers Huw and Dan
Honestly, I think there are some people who do believe that. Think about how good a root vegetable stew feels to eat during the winter months in the UK. I think it's mistaking eating seasonally for eating native. The problem with eating seasonally is the idea that you can be bored by it. Nothing but veg stew from the carrots and parsnips, turnips and their like I can see how some folks would feel bored by it. Now I'm autistic, so I will happily eat the same thing day in and day out, and it won't ever really bother me. Locally though, I have seen how invasive some plants can be. So when establishing my garden I've actively sought out native and naturalised plants. My rationale was that, no-one understood the invasive nature of Rhodedendron back when it was first planted. Now, various organisations in the UK have to pay millions each year to remove them in order to re-establish natuve wildlands. I don't want to put something into the land that will out compete the native plants. In doing so, I've seen so many insects and birds appear in the garden. Now correlation isn't causation and I *think* people will tend to see somethign like this and assume that it's because of native stuff.
You are incorrect - insects and pollinators have developed specialized relationshiips with specific plants over thousands of years that they need for nectar but mostly for laying their eggs and not providing those native plants to the native insects in our areas is a major reason the insects , ie pollinators are declining. And, Insects rule the world so planting natives is super important for them.
That's not entirely true. The roundup ready type GMOs, yes, but there are more GMOs than Monsanto crops. For example, crops have been modified to be more drought resistant, which can literally save lives in places that don't have access to first-world irrigation systems.
@kmcalary anything gmo is patented and sterile. This means corporations own the gmo seed. This means farmers have to buy it. This means they do not save their own seeds. Which means more money and control in the hands and pockets of the large corporations. Gmo crops ars not the saviour. Naturalised crops are. Indigenous crops are. Gmo is the death of the small farmer and of healthy food. Nit yo mention that the gmo crops cross pollinate. This could spell disaster. No to GMO. The sustainable way to mitigate for a lack of water is to capture it with animal and plant organic matter and strategically placed berms and swale. Not gmo. Gmo only benefits big corporations.
15:07 In fact, insects do distinguish what's native and what's not - there's plenty of solitary bee species that are highly specialised and need pollen from certain native plants to raise their larvae. There are a lot of butterfly species as well that need certain native plants as food for their caterpillars. Plants and insects have co-evolved for thousands of years and a lot of insect species completely depend on certain native plant species. They'll take nectar from any flower, sure, but they can't breed without the native plants.
I agree with most of what's been said in this video, but the part about insects not caring about native or non-native in simply not true.
Appreciate you pointing that out thanks! Very important indeed. Absolutely vital we keep native plants obviously.
Came here to say the same thing. If you like nesting birds, grow native plants. Most baby birds are fed on immature insects since they're soft. If you don't have the right plants for butterflies, etc. to lay eggs on, you'll have less bird food. I can count on two hands how many butterflies I saw last year so I'm very concerned about this. I'm going to be adding a lot of native plants to my yard next year. There are websites that let you look up native plants and how many/which insects rely on them to lay their eggs
Then there’s the fact that some plants *need* particular pollinator species to produce fruit, such as varieties of fig tree.
Absolutely, one ‘beings’ weed is another ‘beings’ home. This is one of the worries of an unstable climate. I’ve heard people say, things do adapt and have adapted to changes in the earth climate, but they’ve taken millennia to do so not 50-100 years!
In the name of self-suffcieny I'd say anything goes, well nearly anything providing the species isn't inherently invasive. How many UK gardens have non-natives for ornamental purposes, it makes more sense having them self-suffciency. If the goal is nature restoration, or partial restoration, you almost certainly have to go native, but not always. Horsechestnut is a non-native tree which has become naturalised and works well for ecology. Always an interesting discussion. Keep up the good work!
Beneficial narrative. Good Ideas. Great living project. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
These are some great points. What is native even - Denmark, for example, was wiped clean 20.000 years ago. Natives before and after looked completely different.
I like to divide into three categories. Native plants - which is only really truly relevant for wildlife. Some butterflies NEED a certain host plant. You cant sub that. Some bees NEED certain flower types. You cant sub that. But native carrots, sod that. Every crop we grow for our own direct benefit is modified to hell and back. Then there are non natives. I have some flowering bushes that are only there for their flowers. They are not native. They BURST with bumblebees in May. Thats a good bush in my book.
But then you have the invasives. Non native plants that directly outcompete your 'indigenous' plants. We have several trouble makers here. Japanese Knotweed is a prime example. If you only look once, its a perfect plant: can grow anywhere, is edible and a super tasty springtime addition to the vegetable plate. Doesnt need much looking after. Its quite pretty too. But then you start to see that it spreads, and spreads, and spreads, and that the roots go several meters underground, and that they can lie dormant there for 5 years and then come again. And they completely overshadow everything, and if left unchecked nothing could germinate underneath their closed canopy. If humans disappeared from earth today, in 200 years Denmark would be one big desert of japanese knotweed - and whichever animals could eat them. So as with everything else in life, the story is so much more complicated, and great care has to be taken not to completely smash natural ecosystems with a cool new perennial that acn suddenly grow in your climate.
Did you know that the so-called "good bush in my book" may not be of value, even though you see insects around at the moment? As you mentioned though, new varieties of flowering shrubs are on the market constantly. Unfortunately, the promoted, higher-priced double-flowering, non-native shrubs have nothing available as the proboscis of the insect may not have magically evolved at the profitable pace of new plant variety introductions at local nurseries, resulting in the extinction of that insect. World wide insect decline is 75-85 percent, and this is a huge problem for predators. Bird populations for one. If you doubt me, take the time to check how many plants the nurseries you shop at carry local native plant species.
@@asbjorgvanderveer5050 I am quite lucky that several plant nurseries in my country have entire sections dedicated to native flowers, shrubs, and trees. I also place high value on natives. The "good bush" cannot stand alone as it never the first thing that should be planted. I have planted several butterfly larvae host plants, have more coming in, and loads of native pollinator specific flowers. And then I also have my lush trumpet bush, and if the bumblebees powerforage in that bush, there's more nectar in all the specific flowers for the specific solitary bees. And I do know about the plummet of insects. Its a huge worry, and part of the reason I spend so much effort getting flowers into my garden space.
I am in U.K. ( from India) I like to grow vegetables I used to eat there and which we don’t get most of The Times. It’s good challenge, it’s weather dependent but when it works out well it’s good moral boosting.
I really appreciate this balanced discussion of native/non-native trade offs. Eucalyptus is an interesting one, that I have been wanting to plant where I live (West Coast of Canada), but with some hesitation. I lived in Ecuador for many years where eucalyptus was introduced by colonists and thrived in the Andean region. It has profoundly influenced the landscape, economy, aritability, and water retention of the country. It grows fast and straight, so it is a wonderful wood for building, (most buildings there are done with eucalyptus and brick), it also burns well. Lots to consider with plants like this. I also appreciate Dan's comments about how if we insist on keep our own land 'pristine' are we just moving the problem and load to another area or region. This is something I think about often in an endeavor to live ethically.
Look at the content on the wildfire in Southern California and eucalyptus before planting
also in BC and a great admirer of eucalyptus, but have decided I will not plant due to fear of wildfires. Which increases yearly.
I'm Australian, from the state of Victoria, where bushfires happen every summer, and huge deadly fires every few years. Eucalypts are native here. There are hundreds of species, with different requirements and adaptations. Some are indigenous to the tropical north, others to the temperate south, some to the high snowy alpine areas, and others to arid desert. Even the one species can vary in it's fire risk depending on where it's planted. The Sydney Blue Gum is only moderate risk in the climate around Sydney, but planted in more temperate Victoria it sheds streamers of bark during peak fire season which become flaming torches flying ahead of a fire front.
Also bear in mind that while most Eucalypts can be forced into rapid growth in plantations, in the wild they can live up to a thousand years, and unless planted too close together trees won't necessarily grow straight - they are more likely to branch and twist.
You need to consider what you want to grow them for. Most are useless as a windbreak. For building timbers blue gum or mountain ash are good as they have long straight trunks. Spotted gum has beautiful timber that is often used for flooring and furniture. River red gum is THE best for firewood as it is a slow grower producing very dense timber which burns hot for hours.
I really appreciate this interview, because the conversation comes up frequently about native non-native and invasive in the gardening world everywhere. Obviously everything that's not native to your zone is not necessarily invasive. I believe " native" with climate change is a very fluid concept. We're always adapting plants to tolerate climates they're not used to so they can be grown more heat tolerant cold tolerant etc, that's not necessarily "native"but absolutely necessary in my opinion. I totally agree being mindful of what you're doing with your portion of Eden been allotted to you is clutch❤
"The duty and the gift of consciousness." Wow, well said.
Great discussion! Answered a lot of questions for me personally... thank you. Beautiful gardens. Blessings Kiddo!🌿💚🙏💕👵
The nicest mistranslation I´ve read a long time. Though I watch your cannel from Germany the headline was a little bit missleading in german: "Native speakers vs. non-native speakers" 😂 Thank you for your informative videos.
I do have to wonder about the logic of planting laurel, rather than starting off something like Hazel especially for the soil. Wouldn't the fall of leaves each year help to enrich the soil further? Wouldn't it provide insect habitat and nutrients for things like slugs and the like as well? Like, I can see the point, but this was a calculation I wanted to do myself. I actively chose Crab Apple, Hazel, Blackthorn, and Wild Cherry not because I was attempting to go native, but because I wanted to think a little further ahead. I mentioned in replying to someone else about Rhododendron which is according to the Woodland Trust near devastating to the recultivation of natural rainforests. Yes, the evergreen might provide shelter and habitat, but surely we need to take a balanced look at certain plants. Planting Cherry Laurel for example could well be a problem in the way Rhods are according to the RHS. So again, don't we owe a responsibility to make a judgement call and be considerate about which non-natives that we are choosing to use?
Thank you
Fascinating discussion, thank you!
@@lorriewatson7423 my pleasure!
Yeah, again two of my favourite garden youtubers together! Thanks for this interesting topic!
Just to let you know:
I’m german and love to watch and listen to your videos in the original english language. I really love the clear way you speak and your voices, and I learned besides all the precious gardening knowledge also a lot gardening vocabulary through your channel! Thank you so much… also for that!
But shortly youtube started to synchronize everything automatically! These translations are really horrible, the translation of the title of this video is ridiculous, when I translate it back it would say „Native speaker vs. non native speaker“, I was like 🤔😳… what?
Also the voiceover doesn’t fit at all … it sounds so technical, sleepy and boring, that I‘d like to switch off… 😳🙈
Luckily most of the times I can switch off the voiceover, but it switches on again automatically everytime i pause the video. This time it even switched to spanish, and back to german in the middle of the sentence! Everytime I had to restart yt to change back to english… Very annoying… so at one point I didn‘t continue! So sad!
I also couldn’t find how to switch back the title and video description into English… (in my settings)…
I don’t know if you have many German speaking followers, but I think if they watch your videos, the CAN understand it in english… so I‘m not sure if it’s a win or more a loss if you use the automatic synch at this stage of the Ai…I would prefer, if you woulld deactivate it for your videos! 🙏🏻♥️
Have a great new year! 💫✨🌱🌻🌺
Huw, you should plant butterfly peas 💙💙. Greetings from Indonesia
You bring up some interesting questions in this clip. I’m not sure it’s a linear y/n between native/non-native. I think you have to remember that we are seeing things from a male white western narrative of productivity. While most indigenous cultures thrive off global crops, seed markets are dominated by monopolies of all male white westerns business, which unconsciously create a deficit of interest in local species and crops, and therefore a loss in indigenous cultures. (Just ask Vandana Shiva) This has been going on for centuries, no wonder we can’t notice, we no nothing other than this. But on the other other hand you can’t be a purist and label a Cox apple an exotic fruit, it has adapted and been produced for the U.K. environment and has now become part of the ecosystem. If we think about it that way we are all exotic, so the best way to look at it is that we are indigenous when we live in harmony we our environments. Now, eucalyptus is a slippery slop, I can say it because I’m Portuguese, we are losing our native forests to eucalyptus wildfires. The problem is, that after Dan is done with his stewardship the next generations will probably neglect the eucalyptus, and this is when it becomes an issue, because it is private property and governments don’t want to regulate something that goes against ppls freedom to choose, or to make bad choices. Most eucalyptus farms in Portugal where planted by business in 3rd party land as a promise for profit, and are now non productive and are spreading due to neglect. It’s easy to favour a crop that is fast growing. We have a saying: Plant a Strawberry tree for today, an olive tree from your children and a cork tree for your grand children.
Wow amazing thank you very much ❤
You're welcome 😊
I am come from combodia ❤❤❤@@HuwRichards
Huw, also eucalyptus or other trees can be used for a wind break, in an area that doesn’t affect sunlight in the garden., like the hedges 😊
Love their work❤
Thank you for addressing this. There are so many native extremists at the moment
Hi Huw, absolutely LOVE your videos! My husband and i were watching some yesterday, watched the one you did in Shetland for about the 10th time
Having grown up in the UK and lived and worked in many countries around the world in quite a few industries, I agree. As a teenager I read Oliver Rackham's books on British natural history and how we saw our Islands history completely wrong. Then when I studied Arboriculture, think his name was Phil Valentine made the argument about using the best tree for that place in the urban environment. These two helped shape my view on the natural world, how unnatural just about everywhere is in the world and how we should manage it. At present I'm in the land down under, sitting here looking up towards the Snowie Mountains and theres nothing natural about the bush out there. Out in the bush we should be trying to get a near as natural environment back, including bring back extinct species, introducing some and mechanical management. Even planting deciduous trees (sterile) as fire breaks. The house is on the outskirts of a small rural village in a development on acre plots. The biggest invasive weed I have issues with is nonnative grass that spreads horrendously but people love it, even those that go on about only planting native. Most trees I've planted are for food in someway and now am starting on understory plants. Only a few of these are native, mostly just because I find them interesting rather than been a good food source, Finger Lime seems to be one of the few good ones here. Even though I started only a couple of years ago the garden is already a haven for native species and some nonnative. Most of the trees and shrubs are deciduous, allowing in light in the winter and cool shade in the summer. But also I'm very much against planting highly combustible plants near the house, which many natives are. I've experienced bush fires and have worked in forest fire prevention and I've seen the difference vegetation types can make to survival of houses and sometimes those that live there. I'm all for bringing back large natural areas into what they once were before people and as we developed in those areas. In our modern urban environment best plant for that place, if it's native great but don't be religious about it.
I'm intrigued by the banks of cannas in this garden and wonder what role they play. I would love to know.
Another fab one!
Thanks!
Very good ❤
New Zealand also ended up with rats pigs dogs rabbits possums wallabies goats and hedgehogs and we had no mammals , with devastating effects on our ground dwelling birds.
Thanks for this.
There are plenty of introduced plants that can benefit native species and humans by extending food availability, but if a plant is already recognised as invasive or can easily jump the fence, it shouldn't be planted.
Laurel is a prime example. Birds can spread laurel into the countryside from gardens.
A usually do a Google search for 'potential invasive' and the plant name, before buying plants. Lots of information out there, RHS for example.
Look into Carob trees and see if they suit your purpose. We love them.
Nice ❤❤❤❤
I mean ancestors were never “self sufficient”, they were communally sufficient.
I love in Ireland and couldn't imagine seeing a kitchen garden that didn't have potatoes. I guess the only worry with some species is keeping it contained, think Japanese knotweed
There are hundreds of edible and medicinal native plants in New Zealand. But many require native forest around them to thrive and aren't easily farmable. For example we have a native pepper called horopito that is everywhere in forests (because deer don't eat it), but it's very difficult to farm or grow well at home unless you live in a native forest. Without kumara, yams, taro, wheat, barley, maize, potatoes, apples, grapes, kiwifruit etc there would be no NZ as we know it today.
I still plant as many food producing and non-food producing natives as I can get away with in my garden. But I'm not hung up about planting exotics - that bridge was crossed a long time ago.
Hi, I have just received my eucalyptus seeds from Australia. After watching your a few weeks ago I have had a total rethink. What variety of banana plant is that? Do you have to protect it in the winter? Any ideas for drought loving crops that thrive in sand and aggregate?
That laurel hedge couldve been done with yew and youd have the same results with a little bit more time, less risk of it escaping and tons more of ecological worth.
Where i live laurel has become a real problem in some regions where it is starting to push out natives in the undergrowth of forests.
A lot of laurel hedges are too dense for birds to even nest in after only a few years of cutting, they break through rooting barriers, the flowers and fruit have little to no ecological worth... theres not many plants i hate more
Agree on a lot of things said in the video but Laurel is the devil and i will die on that hill😂
@@maxs.3238 depends if you want ecological worth or a much better growing microclimate in half the time
Eucalyptus is my pet hate. They transform lush areas into arid, make the soil barren (they release toxins to prevent competition), are very invasive, remove 200 gallons of water from the soil per day each, are a fire hazard, etc. He has made a mistake here. If he wanted fast timber, then he should have harvested them by now - they can be coppiced, which is better.
Native speaker vs. non native speaker is the ai translation 🤔 I was really wondering what kind of content that would be 😅
😅 was wondering too.
"heimisch gegen nicht heimisch" wäre im deutschen wohl die richtige Übersetzung.
Same here! 🙈 These Ai title translations are horrible and the german ai voices are even worse! 🙄
@@KristinGasser Ich verstehe ihn zum Glück auch so sehr gut 👍🏼 Untertitel oder irgendwas brauch ich nicht.
@UllricLex ich auch nicht! Ich brauche weder Untertitel noch Ai Stimme! Aber yt entscheidet das übergriffigerweise für mich und stellt es bei einigen englischen Garten TH-camrn an. 😠 Wenn ich es manuell ausstelle, stellt er es bei nächster Gelegenheit wieder um. Manchmal mitten im Satz. 🙄 Neuerdings auch auf spanisch... Ich verliere gerade die Lust mir meine liebsten Garten TH-camr anzuschauen...
@ Kenne ich nur zu gut.
Manchmal nervt TH-cam
Can you coppice eucalyptus? What would be the rotation? Does it grow back? How large eould the logs be at the end of that rotation?
One observation I would make is that insects are capable of changing host plants over time if they are under pressure. This can lead to the development of new, slightly different species if the original species/variety is not able to adapt. That is part of how evolution happens. With climate change, this is going to be happening whether we like it or not. However, with our short life spans we are looking at things through a different lens than "nature" so to speak. For instance, monarch butterflies may go extinct eventually even if we start planting more milkweed right now, but a new, closely related species may emerge that has a different host plant - it's just, most of us or none of us will be around to see it happen. An invasive, in many cases, is bad because it eventually wipes out other life that is much more beneficial to the larger ecosystem of an area, but that is not the same as a non-native, although in some cases they do intersect. You could have a native plant (or animal/insect) that because of climate or other factors, suddenly becomes more dominant and could be considered invasive depending on where it is and what it is doing. As a scientist, I find all of this fascinating and as someone with that POV, I always try to keep an open mind about everything and base my decisions on a preponderance of evidence vs what we just don't know for sure yet. Sometimes that is a fairly easy equation to understand, but sometimes it is much more complicated. At the pace we are going with overpopulation and destroying our planet in so many different ways, I'm not sure any of it is going to matter for humans at the end of the next few generations because I'm not sure there will be any left. But we all keep plugging along as best we can.
I have built a few ecosystems (gardens), and within a few years, pretty much doubled the wildlife. The problem isnt that we have non-natives, its that vast stretches of the planet are monocultures, and that we cant wait to chop down any of the old-growth forests we have left. Next to Mr. Chainsaw, Mr. Rhododendron is trivial. If the UK was still covered with oak forests, the rhodos wouldnt be a huge problem. Concerning, sure. But not catastrophic. The problem is that we only have tiny pockets of wild forest left, and so a tiny rhodo invasion is now catastrophic to our entire wild forest inventory. Look at the Scottish Highlands - its all bare heather and grass now, where it used to be lush forests. So the solution to these problems is rewilding large areas. What people do in gardens is not a problem. What I do, is to reintroduce native species where I can, while also growing non-natives. So in the British Isles, for example, I planted (and naturalized) primroses, cowslips, bluebells, solomon's seal, ferns, wild daffodils, and whenever something new arrived by itself, I encouraged it. Was it all perfectly natural? No, but it was better than what was there before (field with docks, ragweed). Now its a mixed forest, mostly birch, but also wild cherry, oak, beech, sycamore, pine, hawthorn, blackthorn, and all sorts of stuff allowed in the background, like nettles, blackberry, dandelions, hawkweed, and so on. In essence, its about maximizing diversity, putting in birdboxes, not spraying aphids at first sight, and not killing every last weed. I put in upturned pots for the bumblebees, use a compost pile (full of life), let the grass grow long in spring (allowing the bulbs to die down naturally and generating lots of cover.. And what is a couple of miles away? hundreds of acres of monocrops. I know what the problem is, and its not non-natives, except large spruce plantations and fields of wheat. So what is the solution? We're already doing it to some degree - fallowing land, replanting hedgerows, and helping nature to recover. Spraying less. In short, adding more natives to the landscape, not rooting out every last non-native. I used laurel in places because its a great screen, also cover for wildlife. A purely deciduous garden is bare, cold and windy in winter. Having an evergreen thicket in spots helps that. Sure, holly and yew can work also (although yew is poisonous), and we had those too. I like to plant oregano and buddleia for the bees. Also, borage. Here in California, fennel is considered an invasive non-native, but its a major food source for Swallowtail butterflies. So its all about balance. In a plant gets invasive, I find that lawnmowers work well. The native bramble would overtake a garden in England until its the only thing left, if it could. Fun Fact, where I live in CA now, we have wild parrots gone native. Also, massive flocks of crows. The parrots eat the palm fruit, the crows live on garbage and begging from people eating at outside tables. Overall, I say increase wild areas, and near towns, plant more natives. In the wild areas, exterminate non-natives; it gardens and other cultivated lands, it matters not.
The most significant statement is his relating "80%" loss of crop to animals.
That's incredible.
I lose 50%, and that's very frustrating.
I watch a lot of TH-cam gardening videos, and I've never seen a good answer to this problem.
I was banned from a native plant forum because I suggested planting almonds on a 6' high berm created to level a horse corral in a hot, dry 9a environment in northern California. MIlitancy in the 'only native' crowd is very accurate.
I'm not sure arguing that all the veg we grow can be considered in the same category as bringing in a flowering plant or tree that could become evasive. Not saying it's bad to bring in plants into your yard that are bad, I do it, I have tons that don't grow out in the wild here. But you certainly have to be careful and control those that crawl, creep and climb, there's plenty of vines and ground cover people get that take over and when your gone if the next generation knows nothing and do nothing is when they become a problem. I have a neighbor that has 2 types of vines that he didn't plant, it was planted decades ago and the whole neighborhood deals now, and actively removes it every year or it will bring down trees and bushes if left alone.
My TH-cam-interface automatically translates the title into German "Muttersprachler vs. Nicht-Muttersprachler" which means native speaker vs. non-native speaker. Naturally, I was confused when I saw that
coppiced Hasel and Doormice go together and i do wonder what Eucalyptus does to the other beneficial undergrowth given it's intensly aromatic and we know many non natives and natives too block others from growing. let's not impatiently spread any invasives just because we are in a hurry to save our planet. I planted a birch 7 years ago and took it down last year at 6+ metres high ,that seems a decent yeild as a crop tree
Waiting patiently for you to start selling Mashua tubers 😁🤫
Just want to comment that it seems ot me that Your comments are solely thinking about what benefits us humans which I get because this is a food channel. But we wont have food if we dont have pollinators. Native bees and butterflies will eat nectar from non native plants but they wont lay their eggs unless they have their special plant, think monarch and milkweed. Birds will next anywhere but their babies need catepillars, thousands of them, to fledge. So we need mots and butterflies for the birds.
Hello Huw🙂
Are there really people who think they should only eat native plants? Can you imagine just hazelnuts nettles and berries with the odd tuber from the marshes! A la Ray Mears...(thanks Ray!love you))
Eucalptus trees don't seem to seed around here but if it gets warmer they might.In Madiera they're invasive- i saw a solid carpet of grey seedlings in the woods.
Years ago, in a Cannington College tropical greenhouse, there was a taro plant and a fellow student, from Africa said that they ate those at home. I took a bite from a stem and it was like eating rosehips, with an extreme tingle like little spikes in my throat! No wonder the pests leave it alone!
Thankyou for the films.good to see you out and about. Cheers Huw and Dan
Honestly, I think there are some people who do believe that. Think about how good a root vegetable stew feels to eat during the winter months in the UK. I think it's mistaking eating seasonally for eating native. The problem with eating seasonally is the idea that you can be bored by it. Nothing but veg stew from the carrots and parsnips, turnips and their like I can see how some folks would feel bored by it. Now I'm autistic, so I will happily eat the same thing day in and day out, and it won't ever really bother me. Locally though, I have seen how invasive some plants can be. So when establishing my garden I've actively sought out native and naturalised plants. My rationale was that, no-one understood the invasive nature of Rhodedendron back when it was first planted. Now, various organisations in the UK have to pay millions each year to remove them in order to re-establish natuve wildlands. I don't want to put something into the land that will out compete the native plants. In doing so, I've seen so many insects and birds appear in the garden. Now correlation isn't causation and I *think* people will tend to see somethign like this and assume that it's because of native stuff.
Can you burn eucalyptus in a fireplace?
In my experience it burns very well and very cleanly, obviously needs to be seasoned like any wood but the small stuff seasons pretty quickly.
Apparently needs to be seasoned for 2 years.
You are incorrect - insects and pollinators have developed specialized relationshiips with specific plants over thousands of years that they need for nectar but mostly for laying their eggs and not providing those native plants to the native insects in our areas is a major reason the insects , ie pollinators are declining. And, Insects rule the world so planting natives is super important for them.
GMO isn't about growing robust crops, it's about control
That's not entirely true. The roundup ready type GMOs, yes, but there are more GMOs than Monsanto crops. For example, crops have been modified to be more drought resistant, which can literally save lives in places that don't have access to first-world irrigation systems.
@@kmcalary wait untill you hear about how drought tolerant natives are.
@@stujones26 why is it okay for birds to move seeds but not people?
@kmcalary anything gmo is patented and sterile. This means corporations own the gmo seed. This means farmers have to buy it. This means they do not save their own seeds. Which means more money and control in the hands and pockets of the large corporations. Gmo crops ars not the saviour. Naturalised crops are. Indigenous crops are. Gmo is the death of the small farmer and of healthy food. Nit yo mention that the gmo crops cross pollinate. This could spell disaster. No to GMO. The sustainable way to mitigate for a lack of water is to capture it with animal and plant organic matter and strategically placed berms and swale. Not gmo. Gmo only benefits big corporations.
its all bullshit and its bad for ye , plant whatever the shit u like xD