Junpei really got buffed in this version. I remember people saying he was low tier in previous versions. The game could really use a superboss where you can bring your party members. Just so there's something your party members have something to use these endgame tools on.
Just watched all three of your vids, man. You did a really good job with this series and it’s such a unique but very much needed take on tier lists that I’ve never seen before but I’ve sparsely mentioned. If you don’t mind, I would love to see you tackle Golden or Royal this way, especially Golden with Chie’s Black Spot hell and Yosuke learning very little physical moves overall.
Thanks! I'd like to someday do something similar for P4G since that should be pretty straightforward. P5R I would need to think about whether the jazz club would be in play and whether the run should be on Hard or Merciless.
@@24hr-Gamingoh when it comes to Magic characters in P5R people often forget that they can get Amp Accessories after the 2nd Palace via a shop next to Darts (Though it’s decently expensive).
Double Ziggurat has higher attack than either Fists of Fury or Kaiser Knuckles, so it is technically better. But if you want to save resources, you can keep him on either one of those and go with the Ekasha Gada Bracers.
There's a lot of old Nico Nico Douga videos that use text to speech for this kind of technical gameplay video. But subtitles is a good suggestion. Edit: I added subtitles incase the audio is too hard to understand.
Really good video especially that part about yukari i might not use her in my ng+ playthrough because ill be rich however it is always nice to have party wide cleanse and heal for like 30 sp
I really liked this video series! I learned quite a lot about the game through them. Right now, im finishing my first playthrough of P3R on normal difficulty, but these tier list videos are making me excited to play on of the harder difficulties where i'd actually have to try and strategize. Would love to see a similar series on P4 Golden or P5 Royal!
Im so glad to realize that nyx's avatar is level 81. I really thought I overleveled my party because of how easily he went down with only having Akihiko's ultimate weapon. Now I realize it was because I leveled up to fuse Satan with Megidoloan and Debilitate with Aigis constantly buffing the party.
She is good at the beginning, but the problem is almost all the things she's good at either stop being good or end up replaced by money, gear, or Ken. Even Sukunda gets replaced because Koromaru's trait is Auto-Masukunda. Party Concentrate is the one strength she keeps, but by the time she gets it, physical characters do a lot more than magic characters and she never moves from being the weakest in damage, even with her best gear.
Yeah people just see her characteristic and never take her out of the party or give Ken a real chance, she really isn’t that great end game. Ken is busted though, I’d say he’s the best party member but you have to learn how to play him.
@@Mikey_573 Yeah being able to use Divine Intervention every 4 turns and have his main attacking magic be 5 sp at base is really good. If he had a Pierce Boost weapon or if enemies were more tanky, he'd be in at least low S tier from my criteria.
For endgame equipment, I really like having Aigis go all in on Orgia Mode with the +1 duration armour and faster (instant) cool-down recovery legs. Her dps in Orgia Mode becomes insane along with her defensive benefits like not being able to be knocked down or inflicted with ailments and getting to use her physical skills for free. She’s not missing out on much without the Null Ailments armour since she has Insta-Heal and she doesn’t have much else in her skillset that’s really needed over it. And for Ken, I’d say just sticking with an Invigorate 3 accessory is more than enough, no need to grind for Chakra Ring. 17 SP recovery a turn is insane and if you start him a bit below half SP, that bar is basically never gonna go up or down and he just has permanent fast Theurgy charge and infinite SP. That with the +100HP/SP weapon is probably my preferred build for him.
Orgia Mode dps isn't consistent, which is why she'll do more damage spamming Myriad Arrows outside of it. On top of that at high end the initial hit of Orgia mode does 8k, but Maximum Firepower can do near 12k. So just using Aigis normally will do more damage than her using Orgia mode, especially since she does not build theurgy meter while in Orgia mode and she'll do weird things like spam moves that are blocked/resisted when she has better options or even just doing normal attack instead of skills even when she has plenty of HP for skills. The downside to insta-heal is if you're in a situation where you can be attacked more than once, you're still vulnerable to the added crit chance since you won't recover from the ailment until your next turn. For this reason, blocking ailments is better because you're at zero risk. It's true that Ken doesn't need Chakra Ring, but with just the Wizard's Mark, his healing spells will be more expensive so that means you have to balance more between Vile Assault and Mediarahan to keep his SP stable. The plus 100 sp doesn't do anything for him since you want his SP below half and he has effectively infinite SP anyway.
As I said, I like Orgia Mode not only offensively but also defensively. The defensive part is often incredibly overlooked, and not using HP to deal damage is great. I’ve also never had any issues with her AI, she always appears to use the most effective move she can in my experience and definitely reads the enemy’s resistances to strike or pierce. I had her one shot 4 phases of Nyx on merciless just with her regular attack in Orgia Mode. Obviously don’t use it when the enemy resists her moves but other than that it works very well. Yes the initial hit is weaker but I believe the stronger attacks following it plus the defensive benefits balance it out. Her Theurgy charges pretty slowly anyway so Maximum Firepower can’t really be spammed, and outside of Nyx the fight will probably be over before Orgia Mode ends at endgame, so the lack of Theurgy charge isn’t a problem. You’re right with that case of Insta-Heal but that’s very niche and rarely ever occurs, I personally have never come across that situation in actual gameplay. Plus, what is she gonna slot over it? Diarahan? Dekunda? Ehhhh… not really missing out on anything useful endgame. With Ken’s +100HP/SP spear, he gets more tanky and his half SP threshold is higher too if you’re worried about his SP. Trust me, even through the longest Nyx fight you could imagine with Invigorate 3 he will not even come close to losing his SP even starting under half. And for Tartarus he’ll likely be gaining more SP than he’s losing anyway. You don’t need Vile Assault and I honestly wouldn’t recommend it on him at all, the damage isn’t great and Ken can throw out SP all he likes. For pierce coverage in Tartarus you have his spear and Ken’s role isn’t dps anyway.
I have not only experience her spamming Myriad Arrows on bosses that are null pierce, but have also seen the same thing in other people's Let's Play. Aigis also does not need to use Orgia Mode to one shot Nyx phases. She just needs Primal Force or a not low roll of Myriad Arrows that's either charged or crit. I have already done an Aigis solo DPS run. You can check it out in the DPS ranking video I have. Furthermore, using Maximum Firepower instead of Orgia Mode lets her have it up for every phase she needs it. Without using Orgia Mode she can probably solo dps Nyx in 16-17 turns. In the run I did, she cleared in in 18. With Orgia Mode, you will burn out and be useless for several turns. For Aigis the final build I have for her is already in the video. Ken doesn't need to be tanky when he has shields and Shoes of Bane. And I bet you I can do a solo DPS run with Ken on a phys build. And I already damage tested Vile Assault both on regular enemies and Nyx and it does more damage than Kougaon if you factor in crit chance or down status. And from doing the damage testing the entire game, you're flat out wrong on Ken not being meant to do damage. The DPS ranking is 1. Junpei. 2. Akihiko 3. Aigis 4. Shinjiro 5. Koromaru 6. Ken 7. Mitsuru 8. Yukari. With Vile Assault if he crits on a downed enemy (1661 on Platinum Dice), he does more damage per turn than Mitsuru with Concentrated Diamond Dust even with her final weapon (2608/2 on Platinum Dice). And that doesn't take into account that Ken's strength stat is not high so if you take Incenses into account, the gap would be even wider. The thing needed to boost Ken to being S is pretty much a Pierce Boost weapon. He can access both Dragon Boots and Hallowed Boots, his theurgy is 230 power, and he comes with Kougaon which is 350 power. He's meant to do damage, but he doesn't quite have good enough gear or a self damage modifier like Junpei, Akihiko, and Aigis.
I have also done several runs of Nyx, and Primal Force was never enough to take out a phase without being at least charged. Are we both talking merciless? Because I can assure you even at level 99 Primal Force and Myriad Arrows alone were not enough discounting charge and crits. And yes I had both Pierce Boost and Pierce Amp. And once again, it’s not all about damage anyway. The cool-down is also instant with the legs, and the armour that gives these effects is also very good, like one tier below the highest defence/evasion ones. Did the enemies you’re talking about also null strike? Because if they null both of course it’s gonna be useless. I’ve never experienced that if the enemy is susceptible to one or the other. Ken not having rock bottom damage does not mean he’s meant for the life of a dps-er. Having more damage than Yukari and unoptimised Mitsuru is really nothing special at all, they just suck lol. His support options are just far more effective than any damage he can give most of the time. Of course I throw out Light Amp Makougaons every so often but he’s never going to shine as much as the physical attackers with way better damage. Yes Divine Retribution spam also sounds good on paper but Divine Intervention helps everyone, especially physical attackers, so much more. Ken being an enabler is incredibly effective, he can do some damage but it just isn’t near the best in the game and that doesn’t matter, he has way more important roles to fulfil.
@@Mikey_573 Yes. You can look at my run and Primal Force can take out a phase if it crits or is charged. Same for a high roll of Akasha Arts. There's 3 Nyx phases that resist or null both Strike and Pierce and Aigis will have theurgy up for all of them which means her theurgy charge speed is 4 turns in practical settings. That is pretty fast. In the time she uses Orgia and recovers from burn out, she would already have theurgy back up if she didn't use Orgia. Charged or Crit Primal Force does 2.2k-2.3k if it's neither charged or crit it'll do about 1-1.1k. Most Nyx phases only have 1.5k HP. And I've only played on Merciless. But Ken is better as support, but with Vile Assault he has the same efficiency as Mitsuru on Nyx phases, though Mitsuru is the second worst DPS but the point is if Ken can two shot Nyx phases as someone who doesn't have a full DPS kit can you say this damage is bad?
Junpei really got buffed in this version. I remember people saying he was low tier in previous versions. The game could really use a superboss where you can bring your party members. Just so there's something your party members have something to use these endgame tools on.
Just watched all three of your vids, man. You did a really good job with this series and it’s such a unique but very much needed take on tier lists that I’ve never seen before but I’ve sparsely mentioned. If you don’t mind, I would love to see you tackle Golden or Royal this way, especially Golden with Chie’s Black Spot hell and Yosuke learning very little physical moves overall.
Thanks! I'd like to someday do something similar for P4G since that should be pretty straightforward. P5R I would need to think about whether the jazz club would be in play and whether the run should be on Hard or Merciless.
@@24hr-Gamingoh when it comes to Magic characters in P5R people often forget that they can get Amp Accessories after the 2nd Palace via a shop next to Darts (Though it’s decently expensive).
Why not Ekasha Gada Bracers w/ Akihiko? Does the damage not stack correctly or just preference? I'm @ 11th Moon / January
Double Ziggurat has higher attack than either Fists of Fury or Kaiser Knuckles, so it is technically better. But if you want to save resources, you can keep him on either one of those and go with the Ekasha Gada Bracers.
@@24hr-Gaming I currently have Double Ziggurat equipped along with the Ekasha Bracers (Accessory). Just wasn’t sure the strike amp stacks
They don't stack. So you'll want to switch to Strike Bracers or Omega Drive.
Ima crit you
this ai voice over is probably the cringiest shit a youtuber could ever do i’d rather read subtitles
There's a lot of old Nico Nico Douga videos that use text to speech for this kind of technical gameplay video. But subtitles is a good suggestion. Edit: I added subtitles incase the audio is too hard to understand.
Really good video especially that part about yukari i might not use her in my ng+ playthrough because ill be rich however it is always nice to have party wide cleanse and heal for like 30 sp
I really liked this video series! I learned quite a lot about the game through them. Right now, im finishing my first playthrough of P3R on normal difficulty, but these tier list videos are making me excited to play on of the harder difficulties where i'd actually have to try and strategize.
Would love to see a similar series on P4 Golden or P5 Royal!
Thank you! I plan to one day do something similar for P4G and P5R.
Im so glad to realize that nyx's avatar is level 81. I really thought I overleveled my party because of how easily he went down with only having Akihiko's ultimate weapon. Now I realize it was because I leveled up to fuse Satan with Megidoloan and Debilitate with Aigis constantly buffing the party.
Yukari should be waaaaay up. Way too good of a healer
She is good at the beginning, but the problem is almost all the things she's good at either stop being good or end up replaced by money, gear, or Ken. Even Sukunda gets replaced because Koromaru's trait is Auto-Masukunda. Party Concentrate is the one strength she keeps, but by the time she gets it, physical characters do a lot more than magic characters and she never moves from being the weakest in damage, even with her best gear.
Yeah people just see her characteristic and never take her out of the party or give Ken a real chance, she really isn’t that great end game. Ken is busted though, I’d say he’s the best party member but you have to learn how to play him.
@@Mikey_573 Yeah being able to use Divine Intervention every 4 turns and have his main attacking magic be 5 sp at base is really good. If he had a Pierce Boost weapon or if enemies were more tanky, he'd be in at least low S tier from my criteria.
For endgame equipment, I really like having Aigis go all in on Orgia Mode with the +1 duration armour and faster (instant) cool-down recovery legs. Her dps in Orgia Mode becomes insane along with her defensive benefits like not being able to be knocked down or inflicted with ailments and getting to use her physical skills for free. She’s not missing out on much without the Null Ailments armour since she has Insta-Heal and she doesn’t have much else in her skillset that’s really needed over it.
And for Ken, I’d say just sticking with an Invigorate 3 accessory is more than enough, no need to grind for Chakra Ring. 17 SP recovery a turn is insane and if you start him a bit below half SP, that bar is basically never gonna go up or down and he just has permanent fast Theurgy charge and infinite SP. That with the +100HP/SP weapon is probably my preferred build for him.
Orgia Mode dps isn't consistent, which is why she'll do more damage spamming Myriad Arrows outside of it. On top of that at high end the initial hit of Orgia mode does 8k, but Maximum Firepower can do near 12k. So just using Aigis normally will do more damage than her using Orgia mode, especially since she does not build theurgy meter while in Orgia mode and she'll do weird things like spam moves that are blocked/resisted when she has better options or even just doing normal attack instead of skills even when she has plenty of HP for skills.
The downside to insta-heal is if you're in a situation where you can be attacked more than once, you're still vulnerable to the added crit chance since you won't recover from the ailment until your next turn. For this reason, blocking ailments is better because you're at zero risk.
It's true that Ken doesn't need Chakra Ring, but with just the Wizard's Mark, his healing spells will be more expensive so that means you have to balance more between Vile Assault and Mediarahan to keep his SP stable. The plus 100 sp doesn't do anything for him since you want his SP below half and he has effectively infinite SP anyway.
As I said, I like Orgia Mode not only offensively but also defensively. The defensive part is often incredibly overlooked, and not using HP to deal damage is great. I’ve also never had any issues with her AI, she always appears to use the most effective move she can in my experience and definitely reads the enemy’s resistances to strike or pierce. I had her one shot 4 phases of Nyx on merciless just with her regular attack in Orgia Mode. Obviously don’t use it when the enemy resists her moves but other than that it works very well. Yes the initial hit is weaker but I believe the stronger attacks following it plus the defensive benefits balance it out. Her Theurgy charges pretty slowly anyway so Maximum Firepower can’t really be spammed, and outside of Nyx the fight will probably be over before Orgia Mode ends at endgame, so the lack of Theurgy charge isn’t a problem. You’re right with that case of Insta-Heal but that’s very niche and rarely ever occurs, I personally have never come across that situation in actual gameplay. Plus, what is she gonna slot over it? Diarahan? Dekunda? Ehhhh… not really missing out on anything useful endgame.
With Ken’s +100HP/SP spear, he gets more tanky and his half SP threshold is higher too if you’re worried about his SP. Trust me, even through the longest Nyx fight you could imagine with Invigorate 3 he will not even come close to losing his SP even starting under half. And for Tartarus he’ll likely be gaining more SP than he’s losing anyway. You don’t need Vile Assault and I honestly wouldn’t recommend it on him at all, the damage isn’t great and Ken can throw out SP all he likes. For pierce coverage in Tartarus you have his spear and Ken’s role isn’t dps anyway.
I have not only experience her spamming Myriad Arrows on bosses that are null pierce, but have also seen the same thing in other people's Let's Play. Aigis also does not need to use Orgia Mode to one shot Nyx phases. She just needs Primal Force or a not low roll of Myriad Arrows that's either charged or crit. I have already done an Aigis solo DPS run. You can check it out in the DPS ranking video I have. Furthermore, using Maximum Firepower instead of Orgia Mode lets her have it up for every phase she needs it. Without using Orgia Mode she can probably solo dps Nyx in 16-17 turns. In the run I did, she cleared in in 18. With Orgia Mode, you will burn out and be useless for several turns. For Aigis the final build I have for her is already in the video.
Ken doesn't need to be tanky when he has shields and Shoes of Bane. And I bet you I can do a solo DPS run with Ken on a phys build. And I already damage tested Vile Assault both on regular enemies and Nyx and it does more damage than Kougaon if you factor in crit chance or down status. And from doing the damage testing the entire game, you're flat out wrong on Ken not being meant to do damage. The DPS ranking is 1. Junpei. 2. Akihiko 3. Aigis 4. Shinjiro 5. Koromaru 6. Ken 7. Mitsuru 8. Yukari. With Vile Assault if he crits on a downed enemy (1661 on Platinum Dice), he does more damage per turn than Mitsuru with Concentrated Diamond Dust even with her final weapon (2608/2 on Platinum Dice). And that doesn't take into account that Ken's strength stat is not high so if you take Incenses into account, the gap would be even wider. The thing needed to boost Ken to being S is pretty much a Pierce Boost weapon. He can access both Dragon Boots and Hallowed Boots, his theurgy is 230 power, and he comes with Kougaon which is 350 power. He's meant to do damage, but he doesn't quite have good enough gear or a self damage modifier like Junpei, Akihiko, and Aigis.
I have also done several runs of Nyx, and Primal Force was never enough to take out a phase without being at least charged. Are we both talking merciless? Because I can assure you even at level 99 Primal Force and Myriad Arrows alone were not enough discounting charge and crits. And yes I had both Pierce Boost and Pierce Amp. And once again, it’s not all about damage anyway. The cool-down is also instant with the legs, and the armour that gives these effects is also very good, like one tier below the highest defence/evasion ones. Did the enemies you’re talking about also null strike? Because if they null both of course it’s gonna be useless. I’ve never experienced that if the enemy is susceptible to one or the other.
Ken not having rock bottom damage does not mean he’s meant for the life of a dps-er. Having more damage than Yukari and unoptimised Mitsuru is really nothing special at all, they just suck lol. His support options are just far more effective than any damage he can give most of the time. Of course I throw out Light Amp Makougaons every so often but he’s never going to shine as much as the physical attackers with way better damage. Yes Divine Retribution spam also sounds good on paper but Divine Intervention helps everyone, especially physical attackers, so much more. Ken being an enabler is incredibly effective, he can do some damage but it just isn’t near the best in the game and that doesn’t matter, he has way more important roles to fulfil.
@@Mikey_573 Yes. You can look at my run and Primal Force can take out a phase if it crits or is charged. Same for a high roll of Akasha Arts. There's 3 Nyx phases that resist or null both Strike and Pierce and Aigis will have theurgy up for all of them which means her theurgy charge speed is 4 turns in practical settings. That is pretty fast. In the time she uses Orgia and recovers from burn out, she would already have theurgy back up if she didn't use Orgia. Charged or Crit Primal Force does 2.2k-2.3k if it's neither charged or crit it'll do about 1-1.1k. Most Nyx phases only have 1.5k HP. And I've only played on Merciless. But Ken is better as support, but with Vile Assault he has the same efficiency as Mitsuru on Nyx phases, though Mitsuru is the second worst DPS but the point is if Ken can two shot Nyx phases as someone who doesn't have a full DPS kit can you say this damage is bad?