Southern Pacific RR Air Pollution Study Train Videos 1989
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- In 1989 the Southern Pacific Railroad hired my friend Jim Jordan and me, Doug Ward to film locomotives operating in the San Bernardino area along route 10 and Cajon Pass to see which locomotives were emitting excessive exhaust from their stack. As SP was being fined by the EQMD for air pollution violations. The video will explain the circumstances and there is some cool footage of UP, SP and AT&SF freight trains. I hope you enjoy this window on 1989!
I was a conductor on the Southern Pacific (West Colton, at the time) and retired in early 1997. I knew of the fines SP was receiving and wrote a letter to Phillip Anschutz (SP/D&RGW owner) regarding the smoking units. I suggested that if he swapped the smoking units in Tucson to head Eastward with non-smoking units to California, the fines would cease. Mr. Anschutz subsequently offered me a trainmaster's position in Long Beach, CA; which I turned down. I would have accepted something in system quality control; but not as a trainmaster.
Hell that would have been a handsome raise for a conductor though wouldnt it ?
@@ogragan3492 Probably more work than it was worth. Sometimes a higher wage just doesn’t cut it imho.
did you know a Switchman later Conductor named Dennis Scott?
I was the guy AQMD hired after completing my Economics degree when I took my "buy out" who was involved as a "ringer", in a meeting where SP lawyer Lila Cox brought in the roundhouse guys to "mansplain" railroading to the AQMDS Chief Counsel. Two senior idiots from the RH proceeded to explain why they could not inspect the trains for smokkng locomotives. And, the reason given: "because we haul dangerious chemicals, and if the engineer looked back to inspect the consist, he might crash the train, and that would require the evacuation of whole cities...." Well after dumping all of that horse manue, the AQMD's lawyer asked me (Lila actually knew me from my Union job and an FELA case I testified on, but forgot what I did...): "Bob when you ran their trains did you inspect your locomotives...? "Yes", I answered, pulling out my copy of the GCOR and a copy of a FRA form 2611, requiring regulat visual inspection of my consist and train, and the place for reporting excess smoking in the 2611, "as it is required by the rules....'. The roundhouse guy started to respond, and Lila just gave him this really hard STFU dumb ass, we just got rolled, look.... The fines had been $100 per violation, AQMD raised them to $500 with no reaction from SP, then the AQMD raised them to $1000, which finally set the bells off on Market Street. This was the beginning of the crackdown on Federally exempt sources, like locomotives and diesel trucks, which EPA was later forced by the Federal Courts to clean up.
Actually not a raise in pay. I took one of the train master jobs and took a 50 percent cut in pay. Worked twice as many hours! No thanks
I just found this but thanks for sharing it. Brings back lots of memories of the SP in Northern California as a kid in the 80s-90s. Sure miss the Espee.
what a different time back then, hired for the UP in 2018 and pretty much all locomotives have a camera looking at you in the cab. would have been nice to railroad back then
Railroads in the 80s have always fascinated me. I wasn’t alive yet. But I remember seeing many fallen flags when I was a kid. I remember seeing SP and Cotton Belt engines on Union Pacific trains. They always looked filthy, like there was a thin layer of soot dusted over them. NS engines were black but still looked cleaner.
that is an actual thing. Search youtube for the Southern Pacific train that derailed in a city, then blew up a week later, again, because of a pinched leaky gas pipe line.
Hi from england what a fantastic video of my fave railroad the good ole ESPEE!!!!! thanks for posting this priceless record from those days
Amazing variety in those amazing times to be a railfan in SoCal. I was 15 in 1989 and lived in San Diego, but my parents were nice enough to drive me to Cajon Pass, Beaumont Hill, and San Gorgonio Pass a few times per year. I was a total dry sponge with untold terabytes of memory just awaiting railroading to soak up, and I did...as much as I could! In fact, the very last time I saw a Southern Pacific freight with a real working caboose on the end of it was in early 1991 just a few miles west of the location seen in this video, in San Timoteo Canyon. It was on an eastbound heading up the grade. I wish I could find those pictures that I was taking back then. And those U33C's in this video were a total surprise! I only ever saw one U33C and it was coupled to an SD45 in the scrap line at the old Colton Yard, probably 1987.
Great videos! Areas I'm so familiar with in my youth..... and my recent past! As a 44 year trucker eliminating the smoke doesn't stop the pollution!
even today those UP engines are real smoky stinkers up on Cajon Pass
Dirty engine air filters will do that
Who cares diesel engines smoke get over it
Definitely a whole different form or railroading that is long died. It was kinda funny to see the UP and ATSF units smoke like crazy compared to SP's tunnel Motors who looked right at home on the hills
I reckon SP valued their motive power and stayed on top of maintenence.
WOW on the footage👏👏👏 Before ditchlights & with some cabooses. Thanks for posting
That 3rd train. Man thats a lot of Dash 8s. SP and SSW Mix.
15:29 Wow, very rare for Southern Pacific U33Cs to survive past 1986. Would not have been a good look for SP in their court case to keep those running on the mainline. As far as I'm aware they are all gone now. Good footage.
The two U33C's shown at Colton were likely the ones used for electrical power in the yard. They were non-revenue units.
Right? They looked like they were on the dead line if it weren't for being right in the area of the ready tracks. I loved those beasts.
I look at the old box cars beside the engines. The one at 10:36 Oregon, California & Eastern Railway Co. I haven't seen one of them in years.
It wasn't smoking locomotives that did in the Southern Pacific it was poor management for at least the last 20 years of their life
I love this video and I miss the southern pacific and Rio grande railroads. Wish they would come back.
Miss my days of railroading, 2007-2022, but the Class I’s have lost their minds. Insane attendance policies, no way to plan, low pay considering the hours and time away from home. At least in the past more crew members to help out and more locals to work towards. The new changes are not good for anyone but CEO’s and people like Buffet. The public just gets hit with higher prices and less options (more mergers). Oh well I guess. It’s nice to see SP reminds me of growing up and setting the goal of becoming a locomotive engineer (which I did in 2010).
Thank you for sharing this. So much is gone from these scenes but at least the SP 7330 shown in the closing scene is still working today. CMYX 3098
Great stuff. I grew up in Indio. Live in Hesperia now. Commute along I10 almost every day. And I sure remember those short telephone poles. Not there anymore.
I really like that video of Southern Pacific 1989 time frame video and can you produce more of these Southern Pacific 1989 time frame videos or back a little early like back in the early 1980 s if you can and thanks again oh by the way I m a big Southern Pacific and Cotton Belt Fan
Great videos. I like the cabooses. The only time you see cabooses at the end of freight trains is just at the state borders for long hauls. Other places they use a caboose once in a blue moon not too often. It's mostly local runs .
Love the footage though and as you said there's a lot of fallen flags in this video, as well as some close to extinct if not totally extinct locomotive brands and models
I remember reading in a magazine or two at that time that the SP had banned their GE's (B23-7, B30-7, B36-7) from operating in SoCal, if not ALL of California because of their smoky ways. And then all of a sudden there were all of these B39-8's and B40-8's running around out there. Yet, Santa Fe and Union Pacific just kept chugging along with their GE's. I guess this kind of sheds light on why the SP and only the SP made that decision. DING $1000 fine..DING $1000 fine..DING $1000 fine..DING $1000 fine..DING $1000..etc.
For about 2 years I had the assignment as "Manager, Air Quality -- System". I wasn't aware of the video project because it was taken from a General Counsel's approach (courts, lawyers, etc.) In San Francisco. I dealt with the Operating and Mechanical Department approach.
I really need to thank the efforts of Operating crews who spotted the "smokers" while running, who reported them to the train dispatchers. The crew's efforts usually resulted in the shutdown of one or more locomotives enroute, and the notification to the next repair facility.
The design of diesel engines has practically removed the "smokers" as a modern resolution of the problem.
Teamwork approach worked.
Walter Gould, retired
😊😊😊😊😊
Great video & memories!! I agree with you: always document everything. It is a must. That era was great for railfanning.
This is great! I model 1988 and am always looking for additional footage from that time. I loved the SP back then.
I'm surprised the outcome of that court case wasn't that GE locos were banned from California because of the smoke. I remember monster sized trains on Beaumont back then belching out tons of smoke because only half the units were working and the thing was two miles long.
Thanks for the video!
I model that year on my HO Scale trains as well. 😅
I was 5-6 years old back then.
Great video! Thanks for uploading this
Not real bad considering VHS recordings. So many video recordings were a blurry mess. The best you could do back then was actual film, 16 mm being the better movie film in the days before VHS and other video formats. While I prefer caboose era SP and D&RGW, these are still decent examples of SP and D&RGW powered trains before the appearance of them began to really suffer.
Wow!
Amazing footage!
Thanks for sharing. The narration is also great.
Excellent to catch that moment in time. Many thanks.
Love this video
I remember the AT&SF in the mid 90s had brand new locomotives(Dash 8s and 9s) smoking and rolling heavy coal straight from Erie. Incredibly the newer units seemed to be smoke more than the old Dash 7s and 45s and 60s/70s Geeps.
Brilliant piece of video. Thanks for sharing. Looking at history right there
You do a good job making little documentaries, I just seen the one about the dam in Ca. Anyways good job.
33 yrs later and the Union Pacific locomotives are still smoking 😂
What a fascinating video with a neat story behind it. Very enjoyable!
Those souther pacific rio grande cotton belt unit also rare up unit also amazed rare santa fe sf unit
As it is today and was back then, GE locomotives still spew out the smoke much more than EMD. The only locomotives worse were from Alco. Of course, just being able to see the smoke doesn't automatically mean the locomotive was running dirty. It just means you could actually see it. It's like getting behind a car that is not smoking but burning gas very rich. Can't see it, but boy does it really stink and in quick fashion gives you a headache.
Great video nice sets like the all 8000 and all DRGW consists as well as Gyralite action.
Great video ,thank you
Loved this. More, more trains!!
I know there are pictures and videos of SP's and Rio Grande's tunnel motors spitting out a crap ton of smoke. Apparently, the engines were "starved" of oxygen.
Thanks for sharing !
I remember Popular Mechanics 1988-89 issue about SP trying to capture the locomotive exhaust. Something to do with a tank car. Can't find that issue present day. Anybody remember the exact issue or know what I'm talking about ?
Professional railfanning
Great video thanks for sharing.
I suspect SP got nailed for bad air due to the general outside condition of their locos. Dirty locos=dirty exhaust to the public.
Not necessarily, SP was just one of the worst railroads in terms of locomotive maintenance. By 1993 they only had 1 major shop for the entire system in Colorado.
The silly thing is it isn't the smoke that's bad*, it's the invisible CO2 and NOx that's bad. Same as Petrol/Gas. Best German study I've seen summarises it as; Diesel and Petrol are relatively equally as bad, with Diesel being slightly more NOx and Petrol being slightly more CO2. Really we need to stop focusing on Diesel vs Petrol, and instead a general transition away from internal combustion engines. But in the mean time, if all you can afford is a used car, you shouldn't be afraid to buy a Diesel for better fuel economy. It's just as bad a polluter as the equivalent petrol car.
*OK the smoke is bad for animals to inhale, it's Carbon soot. However, Carbon soot is a plant fertilizer. So once it settles on the ground it's actually good for the environment. So go ahead and coal roll in really rural areas and farm fields.
Imagine if you had the budget to shoot countless 100' (2m40) spools of 16mm. Then it could be scanned at 2K and we'd have this in 1440x1080.
I wonder if the GP9 was 3194 could almost see the number in the video we have that locomotive at the Golden gate railroad Museum now
Wonder if a comparison with trucking was made on a tons per mile basis.
Well one train can weigh thousands of tons, maybe emissions per ton mile, the train would still come out on top
? I do. The east bound would stop and separate behind the tender and pickup tanks of fresh water; connect it up for a Water Bottle; recouple and head east. West bound would bring in Water Bottles (now empty) drop them off and head to Indio. It happened on every steam era train.
Those units weren't even smoking that bad considering the enormous amount on tonnage they were toting. All it takes is one POS like they guy writing those tickets to totally ruin it for a company.
Dude EXACTLY, cant believe i had to scroll this far down to see this. I bet that POS later went on to be head of the epa which is why we have all these dumb ass Tier 4 engines and more now
Very Cool
no worse then the jets that fly into California!!
Those GE locomotives were stinkers. Polluted the air something awful. Just like their counterparts Alco's.
Cool
Wonder what grounds the suit was about because none of those locomotives were even that smoky they all appeared like they were running hard, which they were, diesels smoke when under load that’s the nature of the beast so to speak. Guess the state of California wanted mule teams pulling trains
Medium Weight rateo in the 80/90 's?
Ah yes.. the peoples republic of California... ruining everything.
1:44 why tf are there so many DPUs ☠️☠️
They were not DPU's back then. They were manned helpers. There was a crew on the units in the middle or the rear of the train. It was not until the early 2000's that DPU tech developed to the point that the crews could be removed. Unlike DPU's, Helper sets would be added to the train before climbing a mountain and remove at the other side of the mountain.
Typical government official being a power tripping Natsi 🤦
Another case of government overreach! Think how much pollution 10,000 trucks would make?
ditto that
Agree!!
Yes I agree to that one chat I read that said what did in Southern Pacific and Cotton Belt and Denver Rio Grande Western Railroads was real bad management not smoking locomotives hey I have videos of trains running thru Cajon Pass and the Tehechapi Loop and I look at both BNSF and UP locomotives and the ones that smokes more are locos from UP but BNSF locos don't smoke often as does UP the UP looks real bad when they go thru those mountain grades they look bad period