Except that once you use your kit he’s gonna heal up and box you. And if you ult he will too. Just long enough for yours to end and his to land on top of you
The first problem that surtyrs lane pressure is insane from moment one. He's stun it easy to hit and absolutely shuts down half the solo laners, he heals constantly, and dear god, ulting into a team fight with that knockup...
This sounds exactly like the Hades problem. I do agree that Surtr does need a few nerfs to round out his game but they have to be careful. I know that they have a system in Non-Conquest modes in order to nerf or buff god ability, like Ares' Ult having a longer cooldown, maybe they could use that more often so it wouldn't hurt Non-Conquest performances because I think Surtr is just fine in Arena. Honestly it sucks whenever a god gets nerfed hard because they over-preformed in only Conquest and they become unplayable in other modes where they were just fine especially when there is a system already in place for balancing Non-Conquest modes.
Conquest is the only real competitive gamemode in the game. The fact what they are making changes exclusively for it makes a lot of sense. Arena was never a competitive format, it was always just-for-fun gamemode. Devs are ok with it being broken, or whatever.
I feel surtr really isn’t an issue past first item. Rush contagion and you’re pretty much on even ground with him, maybe even winning. He’s definitely powerful early game, but the way his power wanes off as the match progresses makes him less of a problem imo.
I play a fair amount of Surtr solo and while i think there are somethings people can do to make their experience vs Surtr a little better like buying antiheal and not trying to box me when my 3 is currently up, Surtr is still strong. providing I win the punch offs, I can secure the totem and that means I just do not care about my mana. I think increasing the cost of Surtr's spells mana wise would make him a little more fair. There are also some heroes that just shut me down like Hades.
the problem with surtr is how nobody build contagion when going up against me. surtr gets rocked if your first item is contagion and if your good you can capitalize off of the contagion alone
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 that’s the main issue. People aren’t building antiheal or pen early to pressure his midgame. I guarantee if they did the bare minimum Surtr wouldn’t seem scary.
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 contaigen as a first item doesn't make much sense to me. Something like a glad shield or berserkers depending on the warrior your are. Physical defense items that give you a chance at trading seem like the best choice if you ask me..And if you're a mage you probably want a warlocks or maybe book of thoth cause you need to start instantly stacking it. Solo lane hunters tend to not have defense items and just play as a 2nd Hunter depending on the meta. And solo guardians really need something that gives a bit of power or they won't clear wave ever. Especially against surtr. Hands down you wouldn't ever want to do it on an assassin where you'll be wanting to get beat stick at some point anyways. I just feel contaigen is kinda underwhelming first item? It's kinda the issue of building defense when behind(obviously different as supp or solos. You'll always need defense at some point). Let alone first item; You have no ability to pressure or fight back against pressure. You can tank but that doesn't do anything besides keep you alive a little longer as they out secure your blue because they have enough damage.
@Hunter Goshorn your comment ignores how strong Bluestone is. Which can clear minion waves by itself in one or two abilities. Warriors aren't building power items normally because of the passive buff defense items have now
I had the strangest experience in my first ranked game with him in my lane. I played tainted Sobek (first item tablet, defense) and got first blood from him outclearing and stupidly playing on tower line. I ended up getting a couple more kills on him, but somewhere after 2nd item (I had gotten regrowth since I had a lead, I should have gotten contagion; he had bluestone, soul eater, glad) he started to really outtrade me in brawls despite being behind. I blame the bloated passive and the fact that I was consistently getting to that 15% threshold or something. Because he didn't have defense, I did. I had tainted+ my 3, and I hadn't lost trades when it was soul eater vs early tablet. Wild.
That build just sounds bad sobek is horrible at stacking tablet of destinies and it doesn't even do that much damage at that point of the game you need to build mana for it to be good I could out damage you just by standing next to you with a mystical mail ticking
You just camp your tower line bc he put pressures you then try to pluck him under your tower. That's not called winning that's just called losing and playing boring to compensate
I mean 4 damaging abilities and in solo lane. I had no trouble stacking. I'm certain I had all 50 before 20 min. And I'll take true dmg into squishies over a little magical. But maybe I'll try mystical in the future. Tablet-> defense absolutely shreds on Jorm, though (which is why I tried it on sobek)
Edit: TL:DR Sobek as an aggressive solo laner is mega bait as big poopy damage against on level warriors and bruiser guardians. No that’s just a sobek issue. Sobek is heavy bait for those who don’t know better. His kit seems perfect for outputting a fair bit of damage with obviously four damage abilities coupled with some nasty cc and some healing and absurd mana sustain. On paper he looks like a nasty solo lane guardian especially with a passive making him insanely tanky. But he simply just doesn’t have the damage to make it happen. Cuz alone after you’ve used your kit you’ve likely only done 10-15%, on the high end, of their hp and they simply walk past you back to tower because your sobek and A can’t clear waves very well and B have poopy guardian autos as your only source of damage. Sobek is just the ultimate lane staller because he’s so tanky and with a long duration cc immune Ult you can’t really lock him down so on the off chance he trolls enough for you to get him low he jsut ults back to tower.
A potential fix is to make his 1 scale more exclusively with his stacks, as it would force players to sacrifice the speed of their clear to secure stacks.
Surtr, in my experience, is really easy to stop, because he has no movement. His only escape option is his ult, which can be followed. So, who is the best counter? In my opinion, it's Horus. Now, Horus is generally considered a pretty weak solo laner, but his strong cc combo, variety of movement abilities, self and other healing, and ult that can easily chase an escaping surtr, allows him to handedly win the lane against the fire giant.
They should remove one or both of his cleave auto attacks in his hit chain he already gets enough pressure from the rest of his kit I don't know who's idea it was to give him an even easier time clearing waves 😂
Anytime I get solo since Surtr's release I've just played baron cuz I wasn't dealing with his broken ass. Barons 3 stops him from being able to W key and confirms my combo which heals any poke dmg he did and my ult stops him from ulting me under tower. Completely countered and it's still a hard matchup. If I ever miss my 3 he's definitely doing half my health in no time.
Couldn't help but notice you compared his lane pressure to other warriors, which at firs glance would be reasonable since he himself is a warrior, but i see warrior solo laners in only about 15% of my games
Controversial, but maybe re-tool his passive? The comparison you brought up between Surtr’s passive and Hercules’ 3 is a good one and maybe those kinds of effects (heal-on-hit) shouldn’t be on a passive at all. I understand Horus gets prots and a heal after taking damage, but it isn’t nearly as many as Surtr and there’s a delay on the heal so that passive seems balanced. But Surtr definitely needs an adjustment. I don’t think any god in the game should be as strong as he is currently at level 1. It’s a bit much.
I played a lot of warriors axe surtur when the year 10 patch dropped because I wanted to see if any other starter besides bluestone was going to be viable in the laning phase and I can 100% attest to the fact that his clear isn't as insane without it, which isn't a surprise or anything blue stone in most of it's year 10 forms has been nuts and almost required until the mitigation build became a problem. But the reason I bring it up is because playing with the build path of maxing the 3 first like most surtr players seem to do (i'm more of a yeet leveler myself) is that a lot of the pressure you accumulate becomes hard to capitalize on the moment you take bluestone out of the equation. The damage from ember walk becomes a lot more managable to fight into, his buff secure is questionable, and his main way of clear requires you have enough position to capitalize on the 2 explosion damage which with minion ai can be kind of jank and the problem of fighting into him can literally be mitigated by doing what you are supposed to do in those situations which is not fighting him and taking a couple of Ls to come back in the mid/late game. Don't get me wrong his numbers very much need adjustment but personally my issue is the current itemization. Change or remove bluestone, create a meta where hybird builds (not items) can be effective past 20 minutes and you'll start to notice how underwhelming surtrs kit is. Low utility/conditional utility, easily dogpiled and requires a lead to be effective in the mid to late game. that early pressure is really all the character has at the moment and I think it'd be a shame to gut a character because people just don't know how to play into early pressure. Besides you know how many people even in ranked don't know hot to capitalize on the early game pressure they get. I'd say being able to effectively rotate means you know what you are doing and are being rewarded for playing smart. But of course that's my opinion.
I hard agree with this. If you don't go *meta build* then he is a decent... like B tier God. But that Bluestone, much like Merlin with the Tablet, just boost them to another level. The problem in my opinion is the starting item
I've played a lot of Solo matches against Surtr, and yes, he is that much of a monster. But a Sylv with Death Tools will clear and push Surtr back under his tower 9 out of 10 times on early. Verdant Growth and Wisp are a dangerous combo on early stages.
Dude has so many counters, plenty of times i got recked as him, and i recked plenty of times i recked him. I have no clue why people say he's OP, when freakin' Cuchu is out there ramming you like a choochoo.
@@Patrick_The_Pure Cuchu is definitely more annoying, I run into one almost every other game. But even with Cuchu his late game seems not as reliable when he can’t change constantly
@@Patrick_The_Pure I mean just walk back to tower when he transforms. Do this and unless he’s mega cringe and holds wave it won’t matter. But he can only hold it so long as he’s transformed. As long as you play the first five minutes decently enough and don’t fall behind cu chu isn’t super hard to play into
So i was playing hades in assault, they had a surtr and 3 other physicals, and a cthulu who only built protection (and none of the damagy ones either) so i bought some physical protections, to about 200 prots. And surtr was STILL bursting me for 800-1000 damage, despite having no pen, like one item with power, and only glad shield as damage. I didnt think he was broken until recently, yeah he’s a problem lol
I feel like smite keeps trying to make everything more complex as a way to keep people interested. But that just leads to them making even more dominant and ridiculously OP gods or builds. "oh we didn't see a lot of anti-heal in SPL, so now you can have 90% anti-heal with contagion and a beatstick" If you want an example. Just look at any of the newest gods ability descriptions... And then look at Hun Batz
this is the only time i actually LIKE contagion because it just drives surtr into the dirt. however he still has a lot of abilities to make him trade well, his passive wants him to trade, his autos hit hard and he's always doing damage in an aoe, he'll probably ALSO build contagion because let's be real all solo's build contagion... it doesn't help that in general solo lane (and support) is the weakest right now after all the nerfs to it and huge buffs to others.
Personally I think he's fine as he is, his early game Prots from his protections do need to be touched on. But he's fine, as a king arthur player I find him quite easy to out pressure and kill. Given the new anti heal item changes he's not as bad as first perceived. Yeah new players can and will find him extremely oppressing. But it's easy to stick to your guns and zone him out with your ranged poke. If he has his 1 up lead him to wave so he hits the wave and you're safe from his magic damage poke. for 2 just juke it out. Yeah it'll be hard to juke out reliably against a good player, but given that it's only minions and the child that go through wave and have a slower travel time in return it's easier to avoid that. If you know you're gonna get hit alot by it. Just get Contagion For his 3 if he's trying to box you. I'd say go nuts. You can get in the way of his orbs if you constantly turn clockwise with since that's how they drop on rotation, that way you body block his orbs and prevent his sustain plus prot gain. This has worked for me and made it not exactly a breeze but bearable to box him. As for his ult given the way it's fundamentally designed, don't have jung gank. The easiest way to get it out is simply outplaying and pressuring the surtr harder than he can out pressure you. Yes he snow balls hard but if he falls behind a little, the game gets very painful for Surtr. And thus he'll always Ult to safety in lane. Then you can get Jung to gank and kill him. Again this is from my personal experience and my Elo isn't enormously high. So to those who think about replying, tell me what works for you.
what works for me, gold 3, is to ban him 100% of the time in P&Bs. otherwise instant lock him and win lane and probably the game assuming your team can avoid a forced trip to fountain. if he does, as a solo main and jungle second, I baby sit the absolute piss out of him. if he goes for blue im there waiting, if he goes for silver, im there. basically anytime a buff comes up in solo im rotating to pressure him off and back as even 2 levels behind a confident surtr can absolutely out trade most if not all the other solo laners in a 1v1.
The problem with surtur is his ability to overpower almost every warrior in solo with wave clear and it almost makes you force to play a different role in solo and if you do then you will be forced to build a certain way sense you would be very squishy early game and even if you have anti heal nothing changes much against surtur so I think the problem lies in his three again even after it was nerfed it was still ridiculous or nerf his passive to lower the amount or speed that his passive spawns of those rocks sense that's what seems to be the problem sense his 3 automatically picks them up and why he's so oppressive against other warriors
In all my experience with laning against a Surtr I don’t find it to be that bad. You just buy some anti heal, let him W key his life away, and then go do what you need to do.
Dude that’s stupid af considering he will out clear you and pressure you under tower. Then pressure blue and totem. Your “counter” to him is to be a little bitch, which doesn’t work in solo lane.
I have not had much of an issue with Surtr the times that I have faced him in lane because i have played him before and knew to counter build and play careful. Like the herc issue a lot of the issues comes down to people not understanding how the god either works or how to play against them. I remember old herc and always built anti heal against him to deal with him regardless of the role. A big factor as to why gods like Surtr get away with so much is people either picking poor match ups, not taking into account the enemy they are facing, and/or not building correctly. Though the release Surtr I think was too much with his passive. Being able to out right break the game is not okay. People do not build anti heal most of the time unless the pros include it into their build. Most people just auto buy or just follow a build and stick to it fanatically without ever being adaptable.
i wouldnt mind an auto attack chain rework like they did with daji, the cleave autos are what make him absurdly oppressive. Tyr uses a 1 handed giant sword and swings horizontally and doesnt get cleave autos, why did they give them to Surtr. if they made his attack chain like 1-0.5-1.5 dmg where he does an overhead swing, followed by a slightly faster hilt hit to reposition the sword over his shoulder, then a 2 handed downward swing that would be cool looking and balance him out. on the last swing, give him a small aoe burst if they really want him to have cleave. like +2 meters in a small circle that deals 0.25 auto damage so the cleave has to be hard committed. being so early in the chain makes it too strong when coupled with the rest of his kit. Nike has early cleave autos, but her clear can be interrupted by silences and stuns so she can be counter picked hard, plus it takes along time for her to dish all three slaps out so early cleave works for her. Osiris has late cleave so he has to commit to it and cant AA cancel to generate a ton of pressure. Mulan has late cleave but she has 2 powerful abilities for wave clear. Surtr can just cancel his last auto in the chain and repeat the early cleave twice with his 1 and his 2, while pumping poke dmg with his 3 into the enemy god in the early game, while sustaining and getting increased protections, while proccing Regrowth if he wants that item so every wave he can just rush you while his 3 kills the wave once you start pushing midgame and hes already up 2 levels. Plus regrowth has good stats on top of a great passive. side note: alot of people saying "you just dont know how to fight Surtr just do XYZ and its freelo" type remarks. seems like its mostly plat and below opinions. once you start pushing into mid upper diamonds and playing against streamers and pros then thats when Surtr just nukes the lane. ya, playing against highly skilled players is gonna have issues on any god, but when the god is clearly overtuned and the player is really good on top of that, thats when it becomes relevant. the games not balanced around mid ranks, its balanced around the top end with mid ranks being considered partially
hades kinda eat his ass in lane (faster wave clear, and has to ult hades ult to get out so he becomes gankable) so its not even the strongest laner and considering how much nerf all warriors already took this season i would prefer to see no nerf on him, instead i would like to see some buff to other warriors to make them viable
If you are solo against him just pick hades and you can bully him really hard I don’t even ban him in ranked anymore because I’m like 12-2 as hades vs him. If your going to try this you just have to let him push you until lvl 5 then you can fight back
Tbh, I don't think Surtr is broken. I know a lot of people will probably disagree. But if you build anti heal early, Surtr can't really do much against you because he can't heal. I've fought him in solo a ton pre nerf to his damage and passive heal scale. But because I always have around 90-100% anti heal as a solo laner. He can't out heal my damage. And early game he can't do enough damage to me to beat me in lane
He has the most telegraphed ult in the game, like a worse Nu Wa. It can be useful if you exhaust the enemies movement but overall it is weak. Most mages and hunters can outrange him and backpedal while peeling of his health while he slowly walks towards them - this seems like what the passive is for. He's strong but isn't on my list of OP characters.
Inters3ct not that it matters but what’s your mmr in ranked conquest? I’m hard capped in silver but it’d be cool to know what I’d need to grind until to see you in a lobby😄
He does well early-mid with bluestone and his 3. (especially if he's building ability lifesteal.) Super oppressive if you get near him. But late game he gets pooped on (in my experience) by any kind of ranged mage or hunter. I've found that kiting him with ranged poke keeps him away. If he can't get close to you, he can't hurt you. Anti-heal is also a huge help obviously.
I personally love the god now with that said. He does have the strongest early game of any warrior. With a good late game. The thing is I actually dont think surtr should be nerfed in early game I think the other warriors should get early game specific buffs as surtr clears lane quick and starts boxing fast if all the warriors could clear lane just as fast early there would be more fighting in lane witch would be more fun. Also I started earlier that surtr was strongest warrior but yamir actually destroys surtr in solo for the most part. U wait till surtr 3 is finished freezing him hit him with yamir 2 and auto the crap out of surtr Yamir also makes ganks possible against surtr as you freeze him and throw both your kits on him and he dies. I'd say if thay do nurf surtr make his ultimate take longer to cast and maybe make it so you can stun him out of it. Making him more gankable while still keeping that strong lane clear.
he’s definitely a hyper lane bully, but he doesn’t stand out that much more than most warriors late game, if you’re hitting his stun and burning beads he’s great, but junglers and hunters are hitting very hard late game even mages too so by that point if he gets caught out and has to ult he can either be burned or can be caught up to. he does very well in teams with a lot of hard cc tho, i’m definitely not saying he’s anywhere near bad late game.
I feel like there's always gonna be something someone feels the need to address when It comes to this game. Earlier in the seasons, it was Mulan. Now it's Surtr.
ya dude thats why theres things called "Patches" they do every two weeks. some characters are clearly overtuned and doing too much. Ever hear of release Guan? Maybe thats too old school, what about release Baron? Dudes were pumping out absurd damage, on top of healing half the hp pools through antiheal for the entire team, on top of being flex picks that could be played anywhere.
Keep in mind Fafnir's passive gives him up to 25 of each prot, while Surtur's is 78 at lvl 20. If we equate Fafnir's passive gold gain to be equal to Surtur's heal, and Fafnir was released today with similar stat bloat, imagine how it would be getting a free ~80 prots on a guardian.
damn i didnt realize that. 78 is so many free prots dude wtf where they thinking. 78 prots is equivalent to like a 3k gold item of a single protection type, with Proph cloak being the only item that can even hold a candle to that for double defense and you need to stack it so its not fully online for like 60-70% of the match.
@@stealthyturtles Combine that with his default lvl 20 prots and you get 167 phys and 142 mag prots, thats a 62% phys dmg reduction at over half the prot cap without a single def item to his name. He can fairly reasonably hit the prot cap with only 4 items if they all give prots of both types.
@@samgraffen9212 ya those numbers are just bloated af. that gives him prot cap + soul eater and bluestone upgrade for dmg. +an increased effective lifepool of +~10-20%, without soul eater procs, which would raise that to around +~17-25% depending on antiheal applications. if your build has you at 3300 hp, without SE, and assuming you pick up 80% of your passive orbs, thats around 4k hp pool. with SE and procing regularly, youre starting to push into 4200-4300 effective hp. this is without mitigations and defense, thats just raw HP, so you are really looking at nearly 5k hp without doing any math. and you still have max prots with ~+70-100 power. with all the penetration though you are probably looking at closer to a 4k total effective pool, but still thats Ymir lvl of HP, building a shit load of HP items too. with no lifesteal or healing passive.
I'm just a lowly gold ranked player at the moment but anytime I see a surtr get picked for solo I just go guan yu, build axe into contagion into glad shield and have never had an issue with getting out pressured by surtr. They all typically burst their 1 and 2 onto a wave to clear it but of you dash through surtr to group the wave then hit your talo assault you both end up starting at each other deciding whether to jerk each other off or go clear jungle camps and wait to do it all over again. He doesn't seem very oppressive to me you just have to pick into him
Kit wise I say his abilities could get the small tweaks to scaling like all god's, but the big thing is the stacks from his passive. If it had a more reasonable max then that would help alot to limit just how good he is. Since Surtr isn't just a conquest problem. Joust and Slash see alot of Surtr traffic as well. The other issue is people have a stigma against anti heal. Alot of people don't seem to want to build it or don't trust it will impact the game heavily. I don't know what heal meta was so bad that people think its better to just truck through with damage, but is must have been real bad to makw the community as a whole ignore anti heal.
His ultimate basically guaranteeing that at least one squishy will be out of commission for a teamfight is just crazy. They should reduce the amount of time he spends in the air, thereby nerfing his mobility.
while his laning phase is insane, his late game team fighting is average at best. Hes very easy to kill late, maybe thats just the case with any solo lane tank when you dont have sigil though.
just from reading the comments, i think surtr is fine for the most part, maybe slight reductions. everyone who is fine with him goes "yea i built anti-heal and beat him" and everyone who thinks he's too much is saying "yea i tried to rush damage/protection items to box him and lose" i think theyre are genuine problems that need to be fixed with characters sometimes, but a lot of the issues i see people bring up are just refusal to counter build because then they can't 1 v 1 whoever
I think surtr is fuckin great. He does have some weaknesses against certain gods but his sustain is so good and if you pick up deaths toll for your starter it's crazy how much early damage he does too.
I've yet to lose a lane to surtur all because of souleater. I'm a Bellona main but I've also marked him with cuchulain,vamana,Hercules, but mostly Bellona. I'm not saying I've won every game though, cuz it's hard to peel him off squishies but I dominate him in lane
His passive needs an internal cooldown, and his 3 needs to do a little bit less damage (at least at rank 1). Also buff Chaac rank 1 so that the other "laning" solo laner can compete.
I still think a late game hyper tank like lol nasus is the right approach. Nerf a lot of his early but make his late astronomically terrifying. Ragnerok is coming is his lore afterall
I'm a hardcore warrior main in most game modes actively. I love all of them and Surtr is not an exception. He's strong, yes but it's season 10's first god, the long awaited fire giant arrived. Nerfs will incoming as with Gilga and other OP warriors. Still better than the Mulan release....
Please for the love of god make a video about anti heal there isn’t a tab for it so I swear most people just don’t think it exists. Like I currently couldn’t tell you if there is a good hunter antiheal
Im gonna be honest. I dont care if hes op. For too long have I seen Cu Cu and Arthur be the top meta picks in solo lane, we NEEDED variety. Surtr is that variety that I have been desperately looking for in solo, so let the man rip and tear
I feel like surturs 2 is the most annoying part of his kit its a stun that's super easy to hit and deals a surprisingly high amount of damage and its on a low cool down
I'm not sure what the right thing to do is, but I think it would be nice if they brought down the damage numbers on his 2 and 3, but buffed the stacking damage on his 1 by either 1 magical damage or 2. It would shift his damage to be more single target as well as nerf his early clear.
Gonna be honest....don't see it every surtr in lane I just dominate. His 1 through 3 is super weak when that's the most important time in solo. Just kill him once or make him back off and if you get that level lead and abuse, keep it he isn't a threat at all. He will never die past level 5 but at this point your almost to level 7 with half a item on him.
Surtr genuinely made the game unplayable for me (as someone who mains ADCs) Basically they destroyed the way Pen funtioned making it much harder to deal with tanks as a whole, and then they added a literal walking nuclear warhead to that sticks to adcs like its nothing. Due to this i have not touched the game since roughly a week after the launch of S10 when previously I was putting upwards fo 30 hours a week into smite.
Surtr's problem is the design. It's super simple. So either they tune the damage up and make him win or its a bad god. Needs to be some kind of utility component to him that requires some nuance. Press 3 walk at enemy shouldnt be a god design lol
I think he is very similar to Jorm hood laning but bad team fight. Definitely needs early game nerfs but his late name is fine in fact a little underwhelming
I've managed to out-pressure surtr with artio and some anti heal without having to try too hard. I think if ppl would just build properly and stop holding the w key against him they'd see he's not as crazy as thought
@Inters3ct. OH GEE FUCKING WIZ IT MOST BE MY LUCKY DAY! Do you need my social? My credit card information? Please tell me how I can accept my prize! 🖕🏼
Disgn is super, just keep the passiv and reduce dmg numbers, then hes fine. Bc its same w anubis.. If they dont get antiheal, they should get punished 😊😉
Increase his mana cost per ability, remove the haste from his 1 or the slow from his 3. why does he need a haste, a slow, a stun and a knock up. the dude basically is either burn beads or get a quarter to half your health deleted/ that or sit under tower and turtle and pray to god you can try to not fall too far behind in exp and gold.
Decrease range on 2 stun and remove slow on 3 and he'd be balanced, he's an immobile god, he'ssupposed to not die in a meta where protections do nothing (ty tablet). People complain about solos doing damage when mids can break the game by just poking you with abilities.....
I think the developers should have at least 2k hours in the game and need to put in 200 hours per year. It's so bad that the devs have no clue what is good or bad for the game.
I kind of feel bad because i really like surtr and i like to play it but i was not know is so broken at pushing the lane. Maybe the nerf Hi-rez can do is the first ability is only phisycal and the third ability only magical so you need to make decision to how build surtr if he will play around team fight and wave clear whit is thirs ability or Full duelyst whit is firts abilty. I just say thats but i play other moba is a kind of way to balance an character to mae decision the player wich ability to focus or not making overpower Kit. Maybe i have the worts idea but we dont know if we dont test. So just for asking how do you idea for balance surtr can be the best?
Without watching this, no way to counter his utl feels unfun Edit: exactly he can just fly way he has too much pressure for how safe his utl makes him in lane to ganks Osiris can be pulled by awilx if he tries to jump away . Surtr is lives
I think they should nerf the his passive for sure. Level 3, you can get 27 of each protections and 3% HP healing per tick. That's already more prots than Bellona passive when that's fully stacked
Doesn’t need a nerf. He falls off late game. He literally has to walk in lol think about it unless he ults or blinks. Kill him the moment he walks in or force his ult. Antiheal second item and rotate to solo for a gank. Punish him for over-extending. He needs the extra healing and prots because his movement is lackluster.
@@aries148 He needs a nerf to his early game. His late is fine it’s his early. He essentially dominates early game against most picks in solo. There is a reason he has a high ban rate in ranked. As the video said it’s really the lead he has that makes him very strong in mid-late game team fights. So unless the entre my team has ample time to catch up in gold and exp to the surtr, his late game is fine. You are saying this as if he doesn’t have a 4 other teammates of a wide variety of god combinations possible. His teammates will make it easy for him to get in and walk up or just follow up on his set ups. Easier said than done. All because Achilles has to walk up to an enemy to actually do damage doesn’t make him any less bad or good. And as a jungler main, let me tell you, it is SO much easier said than done. Surtr can be right on our tower line, and even with anti heal he either ults out and is completely safe or is actually able to run back to tower. Sometimes I even had cases where I ganked as a late game god and he out right turned onto me and solo and boxed us both to low hp. He has a high ban rate for a reason
His circle of fire also can't be silenced. Hera turns him into an animal and the fire continues and he still does dmg while turned into a creature. Nox can't silence the flames either. It's kinda dumb there is no counter play to his bs.
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 doesn't matter if it's a bug or not, he shouldn't have the bug to begin with. Ur prob a surtr main anyway. Like I'm some weirdo who know every detail of the game 🤭
Others: "You can't match his early game lane pressure."
Hades Solo Mains: "Hold my drink"
Except that once you use your kit he’s gonna heal up and box you. And if you ult he will too. Just long enough for yours to end and his to land on top of you
Facts got wrecked by a hades
@@MrProdigy810 hades can cancel ult im pretty sure
@@ThroneUsurper and what about my point does that change? Either way he outlasted your ult and can drop it on you
@@robertness6041 every hades I play gets dumpstered
surtr is kinda in a wierd spot where he has to be oppressive or he will probably just be a bad god
He has a war kit but has no defense? Is he a warrior or b.a.b. assassin with dots?
Agreed 100%
L take
The first problem that surtyrs lane pressure is insane from moment one. He's stun it easy to hit and absolutely shuts down half the solo laners, he heals constantly, and dear god, ulting into a team fight with that knockup...
best recommendation to anyone playing ranked is get an awilix or nezha and just kill that surtur early
@@Balila_balbal_loki Watch someone in my games do this knowing damn well they have no idead how to play them
Constant heal is opressive in any other mobas
isnt this the same community wh< said surtyrs bad at being a solo and only.good as a jungler?
@@Balila_balbal_lokior just
Yah know
Ban em lol
This sounds exactly like the Hades problem. I do agree that Surtr does need a few nerfs to round out his game but they have to be careful. I know that they have a system in Non-Conquest modes in order to nerf or buff god ability, like Ares' Ult having a longer cooldown, maybe they could use that more often so it wouldn't hurt Non-Conquest performances because I think Surtr is just fine in Arena. Honestly it sucks whenever a god gets nerfed hard because they over-preformed in only Conquest and they become unplayable in other modes where they were just fine especially when there is a system already in place for balancing Non-Conquest modes.
Ask arena players about zeus.
non conq changes are forgotten by hirez. im pretty sure ao kuang has buffs despite being one of the best gods in the game
@@ajzorger93 what about him?
Conquest is the only real competitive gamemode in the game.
The fact what they are making changes exclusively for it makes a lot of sense.
Arena was never a competitive format, it was always just-for-fun gamemode.
Devs are ok with it being broken, or whatever.
@@ajzorger93 Zeus is baby food
I feel surtr really isn’t an issue past first item. Rush contagion and you’re pretty much on even ground with him, maybe even winning. He’s definitely powerful early game, but the way his power wanes off as the match progresses makes him less of a problem imo.
Exactly, kinda reminds me of chacc with his early game pressure and sustain then he kinda falls off late game
I think that's why any further nerfs should be mainly directed at his early game, while leaving his late game numbers mostly untouched.
I play a fair amount of Surtr solo and while i think there are somethings people can do to make their experience vs Surtr a little better like buying antiheal and not trying to box me when my 3 is currently up, Surtr is still strong. providing I win the punch offs, I can secure the totem and that means I just do not care about my mana. I think increasing the cost of Surtr's spells mana wise would make him a little more fair. There are also some heroes that just shut me down like Hades.
the problem with surtr is how nobody build contagion when going up against me. surtr gets rocked if your first item is contagion and if your good you can capitalize off of the contagion alone
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 that’s the main issue. People aren’t building antiheal or pen early to pressure his midgame. I guarantee if they did the bare minimum Surtr wouldn’t seem scary.
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 contaigen as a first item doesn't make much sense to me. Something like a glad shield or berserkers depending on the warrior your are. Physical defense items that give you a chance at trading seem like the best choice if you ask me..And if you're a mage you probably want a warlocks or maybe book of thoth cause you need to start instantly stacking it. Solo lane hunters tend to not have defense items and just play as a 2nd Hunter depending on the meta. And solo guardians really need something that gives a bit of power or they won't clear wave ever. Especially against surtr. Hands down you wouldn't ever want to do it on an assassin where you'll be wanting to get beat stick at some point anyways.
I just feel contaigen is kinda underwhelming first item? It's kinda the issue of building defense when behind(obviously different as supp or solos. You'll always need defense at some point). Let alone first item; You have no ability to pressure or fight back against pressure. You can tank but that doesn't do anything besides keep you alive a little longer as they out secure your blue because they have enough damage.
@Hunter Goshorn your comment ignores how strong Bluestone is. Which can clear minion waves by itself in one or two abilities. Warriors aren't building power items normally because of the passive buff defense items have now
I fought a Surtr in solo as Ymir and did decently well until early mid game and started doing well again late mid game.
I had the strangest experience in my first ranked game with him in my lane. I played tainted Sobek (first item tablet, defense) and got first blood from him outclearing and stupidly playing on tower line. I ended up getting a couple more kills on him, but somewhere after 2nd item (I had gotten regrowth since I had a lead, I should have gotten contagion; he had bluestone, soul eater, glad) he started to really outtrade me in brawls despite being behind. I blame the bloated passive and the fact that I was consistently getting to that 15% threshold or something. Because he didn't have defense, I did. I had tainted+ my 3, and I hadn't lost trades when it was soul eater vs early tablet. Wild.
That build just sounds bad sobek is horrible at stacking tablet of destinies and it doesn't even do that much damage at that point of the game you need to build mana for it to be good I could out damage you just by standing next to you with a mystical mail ticking
You just camp your tower line bc he put pressures you then try to pluck him under your tower. That's not called winning that's just called losing and playing boring to compensate
I mean 4 damaging abilities and in solo lane. I had no trouble stacking. I'm certain I had all 50 before 20 min. And I'll take true dmg into squishies over a little magical. But maybe I'll try mystical in the future. Tablet-> defense absolutely shreds on Jorm, though (which is why I tried it on sobek)
Edit: TL:DR Sobek as an aggressive solo laner is mega bait as big poopy damage against on level warriors and bruiser guardians.
No that’s just a sobek issue. Sobek is heavy bait for those who don’t know better. His kit seems perfect for outputting a fair bit of damage with obviously four damage abilities coupled with some nasty cc and some healing and absurd mana sustain. On paper he looks like a nasty solo lane guardian especially with a passive making him insanely tanky. But he simply just doesn’t have the damage to make it happen. Cuz alone after you’ve used your kit you’ve likely only done 10-15%, on the high end, of their hp and they simply walk past you back to tower because your sobek and A can’t clear waves very well and B have poopy guardian autos as your only source of damage. Sobek is just the ultimate lane staller because he’s so tanky and with a long duration cc immune Ult you can’t really lock him down so on the off chance he trolls enough for you to get him low he jsut ults back to tower.
A potential fix is to make his 1 scale more exclusively with his stacks, as it would force players to sacrifice the speed of their clear to secure stacks.
I feel like if more people just build anti-heal and maybe nerf his 3, he wouldn't feel as oppressive
He doesn’t need a nerf. He gets blown up if he’s out of position and you build anti-heal. His ult is amazing though.
@@aries148 that can be said about literally any god in the game. He 100% needs a nerf.
@@VulbyNo, get gud.
@@MagicLeFayyou don't need to with surtr his kit is very easy
@@MagicLeFay I bet you cried when Contagion got disabled
Surtr, in my experience, is really easy to stop, because he has no movement. His only escape option is his ult, which can be followed. So, who is the best counter? In my opinion, it's Horus.
Now, Horus is generally considered a pretty weak solo laner, but his strong cc combo, variety of movement abilities, self and other healing, and ult that can easily chase an escaping surtr, allows him to handedly win the lane against the fire giant.
They should remove one or both of his cleave auto attacks in his hit chain he already gets enough pressure from the rest of his kit I don't know who's idea it was to give him an even easier time clearing waves 😂
Anytime I get solo since Surtr's release I've just played baron cuz I wasn't dealing with his broken ass. Barons 3 stops him from being able to W key and confirms my combo which heals any poke dmg he did and my ult stops him from ulting me under tower. Completely countered and it's still a hard matchup. If I ever miss my 3 he's definitely doing half my health in no time.
Boring solo. Play a real solo
@@thedoomslayer5863 lmfao the fact you think barons not a real solo when he was one of the strongest solos ever on release is crazy
@@thedoomslayer5863 but nah you go ahead and play your role face on controller gods lol
Ive had great luck against surtrs with wukong. By lvl 5 two abilities is all it takes to clear that wave and the rest is an even matchup
Shh if people start playing wukong they're gonna nerf my main.
Wukong, Cu Chulainn and Guan Yu are good matchups against him, wukong is the best matchup here
also coming from someone who has him god rank 10 with nearly a star 😂😂😂
@@omarionclark1900 😂😂 u right
@@wonderboy2778 yea i agree
Couldn't help but notice you compared his lane pressure to other warriors, which at firs glance would be reasonable since he himself is a warrior, but i see warrior solo laners in only about 15% of my games
Controversial, but maybe re-tool his passive? The comparison you brought up between Surtr’s passive and Hercules’ 3 is a good one and maybe those kinds of effects (heal-on-hit) shouldn’t be on a passive at all. I understand Horus gets prots and a heal after taking damage, but it isn’t nearly as many as Surtr and there’s a delay on the heal so that passive seems balanced. But Surtr definitely needs an adjustment. I don’t think any god in the game should be as strong as he is currently at level 1. It’s a bit much.
I played a lot of warriors axe surtur when the year 10 patch dropped because I wanted to see if any other starter besides bluestone was going to be viable in the laning phase and I can 100% attest to the fact that his clear isn't as insane without it, which isn't a surprise or anything blue stone in most of it's year 10 forms has been nuts and almost required until the mitigation build became a problem. But the reason I bring it up is because playing with the build path of maxing the 3 first like most surtr players seem to do (i'm more of a yeet leveler myself) is that a lot of the pressure you accumulate becomes hard to capitalize on the moment you take bluestone out of the equation. The damage from ember walk becomes a lot more managable to fight into, his buff secure is questionable, and his main way of clear requires you have enough position to capitalize on the 2 explosion damage which with minion ai can be kind of jank and the problem of fighting into him can literally be mitigated by doing what you are supposed to do in those situations which is not fighting him and taking a couple of Ls to come back in the mid/late game.
Don't get me wrong his numbers very much need adjustment but personally my issue is the current itemization. Change or remove bluestone, create a meta where hybird builds (not items) can be effective past 20 minutes and you'll start to notice how underwhelming surtrs kit is. Low utility/conditional utility, easily dogpiled and requires a lead to be effective in the mid to late game. that early pressure is really all the character has at the moment and I think it'd be a shame to gut a character because people just don't know how to play into early pressure. Besides you know how many people even in ranked don't know hot to capitalize on the early game pressure they get. I'd say being able to effectively rotate means you know what you are doing and are being rewarded for playing smart.
But of course that's my opinion.
I hard agree with this. If you don't go *meta build* then he is a decent... like B tier God. But that Bluestone, much like Merlin with the Tablet, just boost them to another level. The problem in my opinion is the starting item
Play cuculin into him if against him you will literally farm him since he gets you in big mode so easily plus your one has built in antiheal
I've played a lot of Solo matches against Surtr, and yes, he is that much of a monster. But a Sylv with Death Tools will clear and push Surtr back under his tower 9 out of 10 times on early. Verdant Growth and Wisp are a dangerous combo on early stages.
I love Surtr, because I can finally play Ah Puch solo now! Absolutely hard-counters him
Dude has so many counters, plenty of times i got recked as him, and i recked plenty of times i recked him. I have no clue why people say he's OP, when freakin' Cuchu is out there ramming you like a choochoo.
@@Patrick_The_Pure Cuchu is definitely more annoying, I run into one almost every other game. But even with Cuchu his late game seems not as reliable when he can’t change constantly
@@Patrick_The_Pure I mean just walk back to tower when he transforms. Do this and unless he’s mega cringe and holds wave it won’t matter. But he can only hold it so long as he’s transformed. As long as you play the first five minutes decently enough and don’t fall behind cu chu isn’t super hard to play into
So i was playing hades in assault, they had a surtr and 3 other physicals, and a cthulu who only built protection (and none of the damagy ones either) so i bought some physical protections, to about 200 prots. And surtr was STILL bursting me for 800-1000 damage, despite having no pen, like one item with power, and only glad shield as damage. I didnt think he was broken until recently, yeah he’s a problem lol
I feel like smite keeps trying to make everything more complex as a way to keep people interested.
But that just leads to them making even more dominant and ridiculously OP gods or builds.
"oh we didn't see a lot of anti-heal in SPL, so now you can have 90% anti-heal with contagion and a beatstick"
If you want an example.
Just look at any of the newest gods ability descriptions... And then look at Hun Batz
It's honestly his 3. It's a very good dive ability. Especially if you have no leap
I'm a bad warrior player(I like Mages), but I have never performed so well with any god as I have with Surtr. He is absolutely ridiculous.
this is the only time i actually LIKE contagion because it just drives surtr into the dirt. however he still has a lot of abilities to make him trade well, his passive wants him to trade, his autos hit hard and he's always doing damage in an aoe, he'll probably ALSO build contagion because let's be real all solo's build contagion...
it doesn't help that in general solo lane (and support) is the weakest right now after all the nerfs to it and huge buffs to others.
Personally I think he's fine as he is, his early game Prots from his protections do need to be touched on. But he's fine, as a king arthur player I find him quite easy to out pressure and kill. Given the new anti heal item changes he's not as bad as first perceived. Yeah new players can and will find him extremely oppressing. But it's easy to stick to your guns and zone him out with your ranged poke.
If he has his 1 up lead him to wave so he hits the wave and you're safe from his magic damage poke.
for 2 just juke it out. Yeah it'll be hard to juke out reliably against a good player, but given that it's only minions and the child that go through wave and have a slower travel time in return it's easier to avoid that. If you know you're gonna get hit alot by it. Just get Contagion
For his 3 if he's trying to box you. I'd say go nuts. You can get in the way of his orbs if you constantly turn clockwise with since that's how they drop on rotation, that way you body block his orbs and prevent his sustain plus prot gain. This has worked for me and made it not exactly a breeze but bearable to box him.
As for his ult given the way it's fundamentally designed, don't have jung gank. The easiest way to get it out is simply outplaying and pressuring the surtr harder than he can out pressure you. Yes he snow balls hard but if he falls behind a little, the game gets very painful for Surtr. And thus he'll always Ult to safety in lane. Then you can get Jung to gank and kill him.
Again this is from my personal experience and my Elo isn't enormously high. So to those who think about replying, tell me what works for you.
what works for me, gold 3, is to ban him 100% of the time in P&Bs. otherwise instant lock him and win lane and probably the game assuming your team can avoid a forced trip to fountain. if he does, as a solo main and jungle second, I baby sit the absolute piss out of him. if he goes for blue im there waiting, if he goes for silver, im there. basically anytime a buff comes up in solo im rotating to pressure him off and back as even 2 levels behind a confident surtr can absolutely out trade most if not all the other solo laners in a 1v1.
The problem with surtur is his ability to overpower almost every warrior in solo with wave clear and it almost makes you force to play a different role in solo and if you do then you will be forced to build a certain way sense you would be very squishy early game and even if you have anti heal nothing changes much against surtur so I think the problem lies in his three again even after it was nerfed it was still ridiculous or nerf his passive to lower the amount or speed that his passive spawns of those rocks sense that's what seems to be the problem sense his 3 automatically picks them up and why he's so oppressive against other warriors
In all my experience with laning against a Surtr I don’t find it to be that bad. You just buy some anti heal, let him W key his life away, and then go do what you need to do.
It’s that simple.
Dude that’s stupid af considering he will out clear you and pressure you under tower. Then pressure blue and totem. Your “counter” to him is to be a little bitch, which doesn’t work in solo lane.
“when the child is being thrown” 5:29
Awh yes sutru THE CHILD THROWER!
I have not had much of an issue with Surtr the times that I have faced him in lane because i have played him before and knew to counter build and play careful. Like the herc issue a lot of the issues comes down to people not understanding how the god either works or how to play against them. I remember old herc and always built anti heal against him to deal with him regardless of the role. A big factor as to why gods like Surtr get away with so much is people either picking poor match ups, not taking into account the enemy they are facing, and/or not building correctly. Though the release Surtr I think was too much with his passive. Being able to out right break the game is not okay. People do not build anti heal most of the time unless the pros include it into their build. Most people just auto buy or just follow a build and stick to it fanatically without ever being adaptable.
whens the on buff for every hunter?
i wouldnt mind an auto attack chain rework like they did with daji, the cleave autos are what make him absurdly oppressive. Tyr uses a 1 handed giant sword and swings horizontally and doesnt get cleave autos, why did they give them to Surtr. if they made his attack chain like 1-0.5-1.5 dmg where he does an overhead swing, followed by a slightly faster hilt hit to reposition the sword over his shoulder, then a 2 handed downward swing that would be cool looking and balance him out. on the last swing, give him a small aoe burst if they really want him to have cleave. like +2 meters in a small circle that deals 0.25 auto damage so the cleave has to be hard committed. being so early in the chain makes it too strong when coupled with the rest of his kit.
Nike has early cleave autos, but her clear can be interrupted by silences and stuns so she can be counter picked hard, plus it takes along time for her to dish all three slaps out so early cleave works for her. Osiris has late cleave so he has to commit to it and cant AA cancel to generate a ton of pressure. Mulan has late cleave but she has 2 powerful abilities for wave clear.
Surtr can just cancel his last auto in the chain and repeat the early cleave twice with his 1 and his 2, while pumping poke dmg with his 3 into the enemy god in the early game, while sustaining and getting increased protections, while proccing Regrowth if he wants that item so every wave he can just rush you while his 3 kills the wave once you start pushing midgame and hes already up 2 levels. Plus regrowth has good stats on top of a great passive.
side note: alot of people saying "you just dont know how to fight Surtr just do XYZ and its freelo" type remarks. seems like its mostly plat and below opinions. once you start pushing into mid upper diamonds and playing against streamers and pros then thats when Surtr just nukes the lane. ya, playing against highly skilled players is gonna have issues on any god, but when the god is clearly overtuned and the player is really good on top of that, thats when it becomes relevant. the games not balanced around mid ranks, its balanced around the top end with mid ranks being considered partially
hades kinda eat his ass in lane (faster wave clear, and has to ult hades ult to get out so he becomes gankable) so its not even the strongest laner and considering how much nerf all warriors already took this season i would prefer to see no nerf on him, instead i would like to see some buff to other warriors to make them viable
If you are solo against him just pick hades and you can bully him really hard I don’t even ban him in ranked anymore because I’m like 12-2 as hades vs him. If your going to try this you just have to let him push you until lvl 5 then you can fight back
Everyone: "Surtr is a broken solo laner"
Cu Chullain: am I a joke to you
Hey shhhhhh
@@pestilencetheplague7646 what are you a cu chullainn abuser?
@@xVixiee_ no I try to and fail so I need to learn how to
Tbh, I don't think Surtr is broken. I know a lot of people will probably disagree. But if you build anti heal early, Surtr can't really do much against you because he can't heal. I've fought him in solo a ton pre nerf to his damage and passive heal scale. But because I always have around 90-100% anti heal as a solo laner. He can't out heal my damage. And early game he can't do enough damage to me to beat me in lane
He has the most telegraphed ult in the game, like a worse Nu Wa. It can be useful if you exhaust the enemies movement but overall it is weak. Most mages and hunters can outrange him and backpedal while peeling of his health while he slowly walks towards them - this seems like what the passive is for. He's strong but isn't on my list of OP characters.
Inters3ct not that it matters but what’s your mmr in ranked conquest? I’m hard capped in silver but it’d be cool to know what I’d need to grind until to see you in a lobby😄
He does well early-mid with bluestone and his 3. (especially if he's building ability lifesteal.) Super oppressive if you get near him. But late game he gets pooped on (in my experience) by any kind of ranged mage or hunter. I've found that kiting him with ranged poke keeps him away. If he can't get close to you, he can't hurt you. Anti-heal is also a huge help obviously.
I’ve been running Chronos jungle and it’s absolutely hilarious when I play him, I just let him chase me and whip constant stuns at him
@@joshreid1006 Yes! You know that surtr was screaming at his TV/monitor 😂😂😂
I wonder who at hi rez put better bell passive in the game and thought it would be fine
the only thing that frustrates me about surtr is the ult is undodgeable. i really wish controlling the meteor felt more “stiff”
I think its an overxageration, yeah he could get a small nerf and still be a good option as a solo laner, I dont think he needs a nerf
I personally love the god now with that said.
He does have the strongest early game of any warrior. With a good late game.
The thing is I actually dont think surtr should be nerfed in early game I think the other warriors should get early game specific buffs as surtr clears lane quick and starts boxing fast if all the warriors could clear lane just as fast early there would be more fighting in lane witch would be more fun.
Also I started earlier that surtr was strongest warrior but yamir actually destroys surtr in solo for the most part. U wait till surtr 3 is finished freezing him hit him with yamir 2 and auto the crap out of surtr Yamir also makes ganks possible against surtr as you freeze him and throw both your kits on him and he dies.
I'd say if thay do nurf surtr make his ultimate take longer to cast and maybe make it so you can stun him out of it. Making him more gankable while still keeping that strong lane clear.
Thank you!! I finally understand why he tanks the minions and still kills me!
he’s definitely a hyper lane bully, but he doesn’t stand out that much more than most warriors late game, if you’re hitting his stun and burning beads he’s great, but junglers and hunters are hitting very hard late game even mages too so by that point if he gets caught out and has to ult he can either be burned or can be caught up to. he does very well in teams with a lot of hard cc tho, i’m definitely not saying he’s anywhere near bad late game.
I feel like there's always gonna be something someone feels the need to address when It comes to this game. Earlier in the seasons, it was Mulan. Now it's Surtr.
The game gets updates. Things are broken. Things get fixed. Things get broken again. Are you new to reality?
ya dude thats why theres things called "Patches" they do every two weeks. some characters are clearly overtuned and doing too much. Ever hear of release Guan? Maybe thats too old school, what about release Baron? Dudes were pumping out absurd damage, on top of healing half the hp pools through antiheal for the entire team, on top of being flex picks that could be played anywhere.
Keep in mind Fafnir's passive gives him up to 25 of each prot, while Surtur's is 78 at lvl 20. If we equate Fafnir's passive gold gain to be equal to Surtur's heal, and Fafnir was released today with similar stat bloat, imagine how it would be getting a free ~80 prots on a guardian.
damn i didnt realize that. 78 is so many free prots dude wtf where they thinking. 78 prots is equivalent to like a 3k gold item of a single protection type, with Proph cloak being the only item that can even hold a candle to that for double defense and you need to stack it so its not fully online for like 60-70% of the match.
@@stealthyturtles Combine that with his default lvl 20 prots and you get 167 phys and 142 mag prots, thats a 62% phys dmg reduction at over half the prot cap without a single def item to his name. He can fairly reasonably hit the prot cap with only 4 items if they all give prots of both types.
@@samgraffen9212 ya those numbers are just bloated af. that gives him prot cap + soul eater and bluestone upgrade for dmg. +an increased effective lifepool of +~10-20%, without soul eater procs, which would raise that to around +~17-25% depending on antiheal applications. if your build has you at 3300 hp, without SE, and assuming you pick up 80% of your passive orbs, thats around 4k hp pool. with SE and procing regularly, youre starting to push into 4200-4300 effective hp. this is without mitigations and defense, thats just raw HP, so you are really looking at nearly 5k hp without doing any math. and you still have max prots with ~+70-100 power. with all the penetration though you are probably looking at closer to a 4k total effective pool, but still thats Ymir lvl of HP, building a shit load of HP items too. with no lifesteal or healing passive.
I'm just a lowly gold ranked player at the moment but anytime I see a surtr get picked for solo I just go guan yu, build axe into contagion into glad shield and have never had an issue with getting out pressured by surtr. They all typically burst their 1 and 2 onto a wave to clear it but of you dash through surtr to group the wave then hit your talo assault you both end up starting at each other deciding whether to jerk each other off or go clear jungle camps and wait to do it all over again. He doesn't seem very oppressive to me you just have to pick into him
Kit wise I say his abilities could get the small tweaks to scaling like all god's, but the big thing is the stacks from his passive. If it had a more reasonable max then that would help alot to limit just how good he is. Since Surtr isn't just a conquest problem. Joust and Slash see alot of Surtr traffic as well.
The other issue is people have a stigma against anti heal. Alot of people don't seem to want to build it or don't trust it will impact the game heavily. I don't know what heal meta was so bad that people think its better to just truck through with damage, but is must have been real bad to makw the community as a whole ignore anti heal.
His passive and stun are the most OP imo. A near instant ranged stun just sucks to fight into.
His ultimate basically guaranteeing that at least one squishy will be out of commission for a teamfight is just crazy. They should reduce the amount of time he spends in the air, thereby nerfing his mobility.
while his laning phase is insane, his late game team fighting is average at best. Hes very easy to kill late, maybe thats just the case with any solo lane tank when you dont have sigil though.
The second part is the answer you are looking for. Warriors keep getting nerfed because of joust.
as a casual player, havent seen him be a huge issue(though I do counter-build) but I've tried to Play him and haven't found how to make him op
just from reading the comments, i think surtr is fine for the most part, maybe slight reductions. everyone who is fine with him goes "yea i built anti-heal and beat him" and everyone who thinks he's too much is saying "yea i tried to rush damage/protection items to box him and lose"
i think theyre are genuine problems that need to be fixed with characters sometimes, but a lot of the issues i see people bring up are just refusal to counter build because then they can't 1 v 1 whoever
I think surtr is fuckin great. He does have some weaknesses against certain gods but his sustain is so good and if you pick up deaths toll for your starter it's crazy how much early damage he does too.
I’m convinced intersect doesn’t know how to play around surtr lol
I like how on release people were more quick to think 'No he's not OP. After all this waiting for FG he can't be OP'
Well....
Yea but have u played 24/7 transformed cu chulainn yet
I've yet to lose a lane to surtur all because of souleater. I'm a Bellona main but I've also marked him with cuchulain,vamana,Hercules, but mostly Bellona. I'm not saying I've won every game though, cuz it's hard to peel him off squishies but I dominate him in lane
His passive needs an internal cooldown, and his 3 needs to do a little bit less damage (at least at rank 1). Also buff Chaac rank 1 so that the other "laning" solo laner can compete.
Nice to have everything laid out like this, when he first came in the game I got pooped on with all of my good solos. Nike is great against him tho.
I still think a late game hyper tank like lol nasus is the right approach. Nerf a lot of his early but make his late astronomically terrifying. Ragnerok is coming is his lore afterall
There’s a common trend of hirez releasing op warriors… gilg, shiva, now surtr
I'm a hardcore warrior main in most game modes actively. I love all of them and Surtr is not an exception. He's strong, yes but it's season 10's first god, the long awaited fire giant arrived. Nerfs will incoming as with Gilga and other OP warriors. Still better than the Mulan release....
So he's going to be like yemoja but as a warrior? Keep throwing nerfs his way and then just give up on it?
i love your surtr gameplay just absolutely dumpstering the thana
I agree with you and find him frustrating. if the make his ultimat slower to fly away and make his clear les efficient i think he be okay
Please for the love of god make a video about anti heal there isn’t a tab for it so I swear most people just don’t think it exists. Like I currently couldn’t tell you if there is a good hunter antiheal
I of course know brawlers and toxic but did they actually remove shadow
Me: *watches video* : yeah i agree with his insane waveclear.
Also me: *only plays arena right now* :D
surtr: My early game perssure and clear are unmatched i am solo lane
hades: allow me to introduce myself
Thre are 2 problems with surtr
1. His laning is opressive
2. His ult is basically a "get out of jail free" card
Im gonna be honest. I dont care if hes op. For too long have I seen Cu Cu and Arthur be the top meta picks in solo lane, we NEEDED variety. Surtr is that variety that I have been desperately looking for in solo, so let the man rip and tear
I don't see how this is variety.
This is literally like that megamind meme
"More like under new management"
@@jas3946 hes almost always banned so i dont see how its a variety problem
CAN I GET A HOY YAH SURTR DADDY
No
Hoy yah
@@Inters3ct HOY YAH
Hou Yi
I hope y’all know herc counters surtr passive
Been waiting for this one
I think the only way to beat Surtr in lane without ganks is to not play a warrior.
I think ive only ever won against him by playing Bastet.
I've beaten him with my cu chulainn every time i got matched against one so try that and you might have better luck
I feel like surturs 2 is the most annoying part of his kit its a stun that's super easy to hit and deals a surprisingly high amount of damage and its on a low cool down
I'm not sure what the right thing to do is, but I think it would be nice if they brought down the damage numbers on his 2 and 3, but buffed the stacking damage on his 1 by either 1 magical damage or 2. It would shift his damage to be more single target as well as nerf his early clear.
Gonna be honest....don't see it every surtr in lane I just dominate. His 1 through 3 is super weak when that's the most important time in solo. Just kill him once or make him back off and if you get that level lead and abuse, keep it he isn't a threat at all. He will never die past level 5 but at this point your almost to level 7 with half a item on him.
Surtr genuinely made the game unplayable for me (as someone who mains ADCs)
Basically they destroyed the way Pen funtioned making it much harder to deal with tanks as a whole, and then they added a literal walking nuclear warhead to that sticks to adcs like its nothing. Due to this i have not touched the game since roughly a week after the launch of S10 when previously I was putting upwards fo 30 hours a week into smite.
Surtr's problem is the design. It's super simple. So either they tune the damage up and make him win or its a bad god. Needs to be some kind of utility component to him that requires some nuance. Press 3 walk at enemy shouldnt be a god design lol
I like how hi rez doesn't seem to care how broken Surtr is xd
As a surtur main there are other warriors who out clear and out punish him
I think he is very similar to Jorm hood laning but bad team fight. Definitely needs early game nerfs but his late name is fine in fact a little underwhelming
I've managed to out-pressure surtr with artio and some anti heal without having to try too hard. I think if ppl would just build properly and stop holding the w key against him they'd see he's not as crazy as thought
@Inters3ct. OH GEE FUCKING WIZ IT MOST BE MY LUCKY DAY! Do you need my social? My credit card information? Please tell me how I can accept my prize! 🖕🏼
Disgn is super, just keep the passiv and reduce dmg numbers, then hes fine.
Bc its same w anubis.. If they dont get antiheal, they should get punished 😊😉
Increase his mana cost per ability, remove the haste from his 1 or the slow from his 3. why does he need a haste, a slow, a stun and a knock up. the dude basically is either burn beads or get a quarter to half your health deleted/ that or sit under tower and turtle and pray to god you can try to not fall too far behind in exp and gold.
It would be pretty tragic to see his mid and late game get nerfed, but yeah his lvl 1-13 is broken and unbalanced.
But I like Surtr, therefore his over-poweredness is perfectly acceptable :)
Decrease range on 2 stun and remove slow on 3 and he'd be balanced, he's an immobile god, he'ssupposed to not die in a meta where protections do nothing (ty tablet).
People complain about solos doing damage when mids can break the game by just poking you with abilities.....
I think the developers should have at least 2k hours in the game and need to put in 200 hours per year. It's so bad that the devs have no clue what is good or bad for the game.
I kind of feel bad because i really like surtr and i like to play it but i was not know is so broken at pushing the lane.
Maybe the nerf Hi-rez can do is the first ability is only phisycal and the third ability only magical so you need to make decision to how build surtr if he will play around team fight and wave clear whit is thirs ability or Full duelyst whit is firts abilty.
I just say thats but i play other moba is a kind of way to balance an character to mae decision the player wich ability to focus or not making overpower Kit.
Maybe i have the worts idea but we dont know if we dont test.
So just for asking how do you idea for balance surtr can be the best?
Can you do an Assault rant for Ah Puch and Ah Muzen Cab? Could be hilarious
The Surtr tanking the phoenix shots is from PTS, not release Surtr***
Me an Ah Puch Main: I believe he’s perfectly balance.
While going anti healing on Solo Lane and winning the majority of the confrontation lol
counter him with loki?
Without watching this, no way to counter his utl feels unfun
Edit: exactly he can just fly way he has too much pressure for how safe his utl makes him in lane to ganks
Osiris can be pulled by awilx if he tries to jump away . Surtr is lives
has anyone maxed his number 1 stack? I made it to 110 but the game finished before I can
I think they should nerf the his passive for sure. Level 3, you can get 27 of each protections and 3% HP healing per tick. That's already more prots than Bellona passive when that's fully stacked
Doesn’t need a nerf. He falls off late game. He literally has to walk in lol think about it unless he ults or blinks. Kill him the moment he walks in or force his ult. Antiheal second item and rotate to solo for a gank. Punish him for over-extending. He needs the extra healing and prots because his movement is lackluster.
@@aries148 He needs a nerf to his early game. His late is fine it’s his early. He essentially dominates early game against most picks in solo. There is a reason he has a high ban rate in ranked.
As the video said it’s really the lead he has that makes him very strong in mid-late game team fights. So unless the entre my team has ample time to catch up in gold and exp to the surtr, his late game is fine.
You are saying this as if he doesn’t have a 4 other teammates of a wide variety of god combinations possible. His teammates will make it easy for him to get in and walk up or just follow up on his set ups. Easier said than done. All because Achilles has to walk up to an enemy to actually do damage doesn’t make him any less bad or good.
And as a jungler main, let me tell you, it is SO much easier said than done. Surtr can be right on our tower line, and even with anti heal he either ults out and is completely safe or is actually able to run back to tower. Sometimes I even had cases where I ganked as a late game god and he out right turned onto me and solo and boxed us both to low hp.
He has a high ban rate for a reason
His circle of fire also can't be silenced. Hera turns him into an animal and the fire continues and he still does dmg while turned into a creature. Nox can't silence the flames either. It's kinda dumb there is no counter play to his bs.
FLAMIN' BACON
He has to walk up unless he ults or blinks… the counter play is to hit him while he’s not in your face unless you want to be in his.
how do you not know this is a bug lol
@@sweetbabyrayso5262 doesn't matter if it's a bug or not, he shouldn't have the bug to begin with. Ur prob a surtr main anyway. Like I'm some weirdo who know every detail of the game 🤭
@@fishes002 dont know why your being rude but ok lmao. How do you look at something clearly wrong and mechanically broken and not think its a bug?
Oh look, this is the second game with a surtr problem.