Who Is the WORST UNIT in All of Fire Emblem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- part 2 here: • Bad Units Tier List Co...
Thanks to @MythrilZenith for joining me!
Who is actually the worst unit? We dive deep into this super complex question in part 1 of this 32 part video essay that will shake the foundation of fire emblem as we know it.
I haven't seen a comment like this, so here are the timestamps for the video:
3:51 Bantu (New Mystery of the Emblem)
6:34 Fiona (Radiant Dawn)
10:46 Sophia (Binding Blade)
14:15 Gray (Gaiden)
16:59 Setsuna (Fates: Birthright)
20:46 Robert (Thracia 776)
25:34 Wolt (Binding Blade)
30:00 Vika (Radiant Dawn)
36:15 Lucia (Path of Radiance)
42:00 Rolf (Path of Radiance)
47:13 Amelia (Sacred Stones)
49:50 Est (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light)
56:19 Bunet (Engage)
59:10 Arden (Genealogy of the Holy War)
1:00:10 Bors (Binding Blade)
1:02:09 Jubelo (New Mystery of the Emblem)
1:03:36 Flora (Fates: Conquest/Revelation)
1:04:25 Brady (Awakening)
1:10:19 Jagen (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light)
1:12:06 Nyx (Fates: Revelation)
1:13:56 Ashe (Three Houses)
1:22:03 Karla (Blazing Blade)
1:24:40 Astrid (Radiant Dawn)
1:26:56 Asaello (Genealogy of the Holy War)
1:29:11 Gunter (Fates: Revelation)
1:33:24 Mist (Radiant Dawn)
My biggest Rolf memory was playing an iron man, losing Titania, pulling Rolf off the bench, and at the end of the game, despite being missing for over half the game, Titania still had more kills than Rolf.
Based
I must've gotten really lucky with rolf in my playthrough, he actually capped str really early and was an mvp in a lot of levels lol. Specially ones with birds.
“I just eaked by” - Ashe
Counterpoint for using Setsuna: Takumi annoys me and I will never deploy him
I knew Sophia would be sent to worst of the worst. Icon!!! 💖
I love that you mentioned Fiona’s utility. I think she’s so pretty but it’s hard to make her a good fighter.
Sophia is one of the original and greatest Girlfailures I’ve ever seen and I stan her for it tbh
She also comes in at chapter 7. You can use her in the prison break map. Well. Rescue utility
I used to play Fates online all the time, in terms of building as many optimal units with capped stats for destroying enemy castles and winning battles against friends. In that specific scenario, where growths and bases are not a factor, but the cap modifiers are, Setsuna is actually just a mid-tier archer. Better than Takumi when capped, funny enough, because she has a +3 Speed, and Takumi has -2. Which means that if both players have them as the same class and the same number of statues, Setsuna will always double Takumi.
That being said, Shura is a top 5 unit in all of Gen 1, and also commonly runs a bow set, so Setsuna has stiff competition. Still a very fun unit, I’d say!
I paired Setsuna with my MU in a birthright lunatic run because funni fast archer and I wanted to try a Sniper Kana. Ended up going for Kinshi Knight early then changed back to Sniper around chapter 16 cuz crit go brrt. Needless to say it was a fun iteration of Kana I never expected to do so well.
I used her in my last BR run. I tried making her work as a combat unit, so I did a skill path where I put her into great knight with swordfaire and other damage boosting skills. she did fairly well, but still wasn't really a frontline unit into the endgame due to her poor survivability. I kinda wanna use her as a swordmaster in another run. Her dodginess is pretty good then.
The only stat difference between Ashe and Bernadetta that matters when it comes to spamming Deadeye is that Ashe has +1 base Dex. Their base Str and Str/Dex growths are identical. If both use Deadeye with the same build, Ashe has 1 whole extra Hit on Bernadetta, while she can still get herself the +5 Atk from her personal that Ashe can't. I see the point how Ashe can be useful with it, but if Bernadetta supposedly doesn't have the stats for Deadeye then neither does he, she is just as capable (and honestly better thanks to her personal) at pulling off that build than Ashe is.
Thank you, Bernie is honestly just better. Sure she has a bane in axes but she doesn't need it since she can just go falcon knight if she needs to fly.
@@cryguy0000 tbh if you want her to fly you might pick Falco over Wyvern for her anyways even if she didn't have the axe bane so Lancefaire boosts Vengeance (or the based option, Dark Flier for flying Rescue :V)
Bunet is so bad that the Fell Xenolouge joke when he talks to Evil Fogato is legitimately just "Man you were such a good unit"
LMAO
I’m glad y’all were nice to Ashe, he deserves it. He’s a good boy :3 (literally nothing further than him being a boy who is good, I think he’s a good kid with a good heart and it fucked me up to kill him on my blind playthrough of Three Houses)
FE11 Bantu is definitely a Worst of the Worst unit too. He gets one-rounded by enemies in his joining chapter on Hard 5, while he has all the problems you described he has in FE12 of nearly nonexistent growths, no reclassing nor promotion, and being stuck to using Firestones (of which you only get one of by the time he joins in FE11 from a difficult-to-reach village, and you won't get the second and only other Firestone until many chapters later from an enemy Manakete that is absurdly strong on Hard 5, so you can't even try to grind him up to make him usable even if you wanted to). He doesn't have to deal with all enemies having Vantage+ like FE12 Bantu does, but that turns him from being the worst unit in the series... to the second worst unit in the series.
(Want to talk about some of the Fates units since I do have some experience with some of them)
With Flora I do think she's otherwise worse than generic Maids on Lunatic along with no partner personal unlike Gunter, Jakob and Felicia so she's marginally worse. She can still grant Felicia Dark Mage through their support (which is a fast one) so I guess if you want Felicia as a magic user and need Odin or Leo to marry someone else, she has that (though being a backpack for arguably the worst version of Felicia since no Vantage is definitely not great)
With Setsuna she can pass on Archer to any child units or Gen 1 units that want it either through marriage or friendship, which is a plus I suppose. Marrying her to Takumi gives her Spear Fighter which you could mess around with in it's skill selection for Kinshi since Takumi wants Sniper more. Ninja reclass also worth bringing up since Mechanist lets her use bows and separate herself from Takumi to some degree but I'd argue he's still outright better. She's still definitely outclassed by Takumi but she's definitely not as bad as people make her out to be, and somewhat fun in Revelations since she gets access to classes like Berserker for crit builds or Bow Knight for utility
With Nyx you only mentioned Rev Nyx so idk if it's worth bringing up her Conquest stuff since she's more mediocre to underwhelming (outclassed by Odin, Leo, Ophelia and even to some extent Camilla as a dark mage) in Conquest compared to outright bad. Noteworthy things being she's one of few units who can get Vantage in Conquest thanks to Odin alongside Leo and Ophelia, and she has access to Archer from Mozu. Because of this she can weirdly work well with Conquest's magic weapons since she has access to every -faire skill through supports (Swords from Odin, Bows from Mozu, Axes from Arthur and Keaton and Shurikens from Kaze). This is pretty niche though but definitely could be funny to mess around with if you like her enough
With Gunter... yeah Gunter is just kinda ass in Revelations, both in regards to no supports and worse stats. He's significantly better in Conquest thanks lower internal level and higher level cap allowing him to get pretty ok skills but otherwise he's still mainly a stat backpack that can carry on his joining chapter and works as a marriage bot for female Corrin. Still if we're just talking about Revelations only, then he's pretty much worse than his Conquest counterpart in every way and a bench warmer past the early chapters
It's such a shame that archers aren't that good in Awakening. I like Virion as a character. If he were more developed, he could easily be a foil or mentor figure to Chrom ( showing the sacrifices and hardships that being a leader of a country entails, even more so when you consider that Chrom was never brought up to inherit the kingdom).
I think two simple things changes would make archers, including Virion, more viable outside of Lunatic runs due to their extra hit rate skills. One, have them learn a skill that hits at 1 range or just have their weapons hit at 1 range. It's criminal that Awakening doesn't have that and Fates does. It nerfes the potential of this class into the dirt. Second, make archers resistance tanks. Make their niche into mage killers. This would already work with Virion considering one of his reclasses is to the Mage line. It would also work with Noire since Tharja is her mother and a mage. It writes itself.
Arden is definitely up there. He's the slowest unit on your roster in a FE game that has the largest maps in the entire series. Even if you try to use him, most of the time, all the enemies will literally be dead by the time he finally catches up with the rest of your group. You have to intentionally play in a sub-optimal manner in order to even get him involved in combat, and even then he's greatly outclassed by other foot units in the game that have powerful personal weapons and skill combos.
Mist and L'Arachel don't deserve to be on this list, IMO. Sure, they are not strong combat units, but that's not why you bring them. As mounted healers, they provide a lot of non-combat utility to compensate for their poor offensive skills.
Bunet is bad relative to Engage characters but tbh he's still a better unit in Engage than like 30% of the FE6 roster
I'd put him in greatly outclassed or outclassed but still fine tbh personally
I'd definitely say outclassed but still fine.
Most of the effectiveness of engage characters are defined by what ring their using more than what the individual unit brings to the table. Even if they had no ring, Bunet could just reclass to hero and dual assist + chain attacks to contribute to the rest of the army.
I found Henry father Brady to be an amazingly good War Monk because he can get very high magic AND axefaire for bolt axe.
It's a niche, for SURE, but it's a niche that made him unique because nobody could do it quite as well as him. It still doesn't make him that useful for a regular playthrough, but it would DEFINITELY move him to "fun meme unit" for me.
maribelle get darkflyer and thus can give bradi galeforce
the problem with him is that he have no weapon mastery + staff locked
A really sneaky candidate is Lyn hard mode Wallace. He’s one of the worst units in the series and dies a very large percentage of the time on his join chapter because you gave his knights crest to Sain/Kent and now he’s trash.
you can kill wallace in lyn mode to make him join with his hector mode bases (aka as a general) so if hes a Knight on his hector mode join map, its kinda the players fault IMO
@@DaniDoyle ohhhhh. Learn something new every day I guess haha. I had no idea about this
1:13:19 Honestly, the reason I think Nyx is better than Odin is really simple:
Nyx can just get 1 level, promote then you can make her an adventurer who can use Rescue.
That requires barely any investment 'cause you get so many seals in Rev (Mainly due to having both shops) that you can have 2 seals to burn.
Odin actually has to use his awful stats, so even when he can promote right away unlike Nyx, Nyx can actually do something with her promotion that makes her low stats not matter at all.
I have a love/hate relationship with Nyx...
I love to use her as a unit and hate when I don't.
Brady can get Galeforce from Maribelle, it is a lot of grinding and usually not worth it but is broken solely on the galeforce
Where does nil from fell xenologue go on this list? I had to turn down the difficulty because protecting him was too much of a chore in ch 1
We recorded this before Fell Xenolouge came out, but he's pretty worthless yeah
to be fair, that one is intentional. he's deliberately pretending to be weak and is a liability on purpose. He's trying to screw you over.
I honestly hate how much meta-gaming for these SINGLE PLAYER games have taken over the fandom, but at least we can admit that some characters are fun to use even if they aren't the best or require some extra investment.
I'd argue that 'planned obsolescence' units like Wolt should go in 'not actually bad' personally.
Very interesting video, but I think you messed up with Alva and Robert in Thracia hahaha. The portrait is Alba's who is a lance knight while you were talking about the bow knight who is Robert. I can understand I might do that myself talking about Fates characters so it's a pass.
Yea, we mixed the portraits up 😂 we actually addressed this embarrassing mistake in the sequel (which is coming out this upcoming Friday) its funny but tragic I think Robert Alva Kain and Carion are all so similar I always mix them up
I'm looking forward to the video! They are a bit similar yes but I like them so much as a squad like a cooler Wolfguard (because despite Wolf and Sedgar, the original squad is terrible 😂) . One of the main reasons I want a remake is they get a bit of spotlight along with Glade and Selphina. Actually all of Thracia's cast is so underappreciated by the community, I feel.@@DaniDoyle
yeah, fiona can be deployed in the prison break
i've seen people boss abuse to make her usable
i've boss abused to make her "usable"
FE2 fanboy here
Gray is absolutely not the worst unit in FE2. Robin is actually monumentally worse, Clive is aggressively mediocre, Boey is unimpressive, Jesse is uninteresting, Atlas is a nothing character. There was a lot of better options for an obligatory FE2 slot.
I do not understand the Ashe and Bernadetta comparison like at all. Their bases are very similar, with Bernadettas biggest advantage being her personal is +5 damage, which is huge early game and stays relevant all t hroughout the game since their Str Base and Growth is identical. If Bernie doesnt have stats for deadeye despite +5 damage and being able to fall back on Vengeance
Ashes biggest advantage is his Axe boon where Bernie has bane, which doesnt really matter that much, inhouse Bernie gets to use her busted personal in the early game, where inhouse Ashes early game is a lot worse. As for out of house since units get bumped to class ranks when recruited out of house Bernie gets recruited with D Axes in Fighter at which point getting D or D+ for Fighter is a lot easier
As for banes and boons, Bernadetta even for Bow Knight has Riding Boon, Lance Boon and Bow Boon meaning that she gets to the class *a lot* easier than Ashe does since he is neutral in both.
Finally Bernie gets Encloser and Pass meaning she uses the mobility of Bow Knight much better than Ashe does
Bernie VS Ashe is to me the core example of "stats are irrelevant in 3 houses" because they have identical bases and nearly identical growths (with only 5% difference in a couple of stats) but Bernie is one of the best units in the game and Ashe is one of the worst. This is because what makes a 3h units good or bad is access to tools through things like boons, banes, combat arts, personal skills, and gender.
@@DaniDoyle Yup, your stats mostly matter in the very earliest of the earlygame or if they actually manage to push you over unique threshholds, like how Balthus and Dedues personals manage to stay relevant at pushing them through those defense threshholds.
There are a few exceptions to this rule imho, like Lysithea who geniuenly just has good stats but she has those stats on top of her other tools which makes it not exactly the cleanest example tho.
My understanding is that the unit who starts at matter the most is Ingrid, since she lacks powerful non-stat tools but OOH can sometimes hit doubling and one rounding thresholds just barely with a couple of stat boosters and the enemy peg growths, but Ingird is not a unit I am overly familiar with so its possible that is not accurate.
@@DaniDoyle my premiere example of this is Yuri actually. I have spent three maddening playthroughs with him and my conclusion is that he is one of the few units that actually falls off.
So in early game his stats are simply amazing if you recruit him at earliest possible moment. His bases are very good with 11 str, 10 speed and Heal at base with a very good personal. You can effortlessly reclass him to monk and start raising his reason because he learns Wind at D and Cutting Gale at C which are very good in 3H early game since they are the most accurate spells in time before you have Hit +20
Then he also has authority boon so he can hold early Paralogue Battalions while other units are still raising theirs.
The catch? He has some of the worst possible combination of banes. He has riding, lance, flying and axe bane making it very difficult to get him to relevant classes.
The classes i did for him were Dark Knight, where he struggled to do anything significant late game as he lacks strong magic or magic combat arts and had trouble doubling endgame enemies, Mortal Savant (thanks Rengor for suggestion) it was bad, and Grappler which was actually good.
So you can make Yuri into a Sniper or Grappler and he will perform lategame but you are bruteforcing a unit who's traits just dont keep up
@@DaniDoyle also yes OOH Ingrid is a lot better because she gets enemy pegasus grows and her bases otherwise are lacking
Not going to lie I had zero idea that Virion and Ashe were even considered bad units 😂
Since i was a dummy dum dum, i decided to train Amelia into a powerhouse because "hey, low class means she has great potential!". I even made "double sin" by making her general because look, i wanted axes! (plus general animations are way better, but thats personal opinion). Sure, less movement but just give her swift boots!
Look, im sure theres better options, plenty of them but it's Amelia on my team who one-shotted with a crit an undead wyvern and soloed (with healing from distance) the final boss! Some things are just priceless...
Plus like i mean her armor is orange, i love orange!
Anyone works in sacred stones, especially because of the tower, Amelia is definitely worse than most other FE8 characters though
I've used Jubelo in new mystery maddeing and it's not that bad, at the beggining was a little anoying because of the 1 base magic, but after some characters he surpassed quickly Linde and Merric in all stats, so for me Arlen is the worst mage, since he joins so late
Maddening ? Do you mean maniac or lunatic ? TBH, other than Etzel with Excalibur, all male mages kinda suck. Atleast battle wise.
No idea who suggested Lindon. He’s actually really solid given his reasonable stats and 2000 SP. Levin Crits forever.
Fiona I could see in higher tiers tbh although probably a hot take.
Fiona has earth affinity, innate imbue and savior, canto, and access to 1-2 range plus ideal caps endgame wise for cavalry units due to gender caps.
I honestly think she's at least better than most laguz units who are stuck with laguz gauge, adjacent range, little to no exp gains, and having laguz royals in the game (who tbf outclass everyone honestly).
I think Fiona can scale really well whereas units like Meg even though they're extremely easy to train, may have good growths, etc don't have the greatest tanking and engage capabilities whereas Fiona will have extremely good avoid, high bulk averages, self healing, canto, and can basically play FE Awakening with savior still enabling support bonuses after rescuing.
To train her all she really needs is like 2000 on a forged lance, an energy drop, any lighter lance since the steel lances and javelins are dummy heavy in RD, BExp, or early promoting after she gets 1-11 levels starting from 9.
I honestly don't think maps are really a problem for her tbh. The indoor map penalty is also on units like Jill who is considered one of the best units where they'll still have high movement and the swamp map is just a defend map. Her biggest problem I feel is strength in tandem with steel lances and javelins being really heavy, but I feel like this problem is common to even a lot of good rated units (Zihark, Jill, Nephenee, etc) where all you really need is BExp, stat boosters, a forged weapon, beastfoe, etc
Oh I didn't actually see Ashe there until you guys started talking about him. I find it strange he's there at all when it seems that the common consensus I've seen in the 3Hs communities I'm in that the bad units are Raphael, Ignatz, Cyril, Anna (who I do see there), and Alois
Kinda makes me wonder what your opinions on Ignatz are since he's the bow user for Golden Deer (and therefore I think its easier to compare him to Ashe, who's the obligatory bow user in Blue Lions even though the class system was entirely redone for 3H anyway lol)
Cyril was previously believed to be bad because people didn't understand a few things about his kit, but it's pretty common concensus that he's a very good unit, she's actually able 1 round every single enemy in his joint chapter and continues to be a very strong delete button throughout the entire game thanks to his access to vengeance and point blank volley
Ignatz is way better than Ashe in that he has better personal skill, he has authority boon so faster good battalion access and at D rank auth(which he starts at E+ so you can get it at chapter 2 if you want) he gets rally speed which is insane early game. He also have breakshot that's also really good. He starts in a house with Hilda who in the early game wil almost always give him +3 damage with good positioning and Ashe doesn't have that in his house.
Setsuna would prob be really really good in Conquest. In Birthright it's not even a choice, you'd just as soon run priestess Sakura as your dedicated bow user if Takumi or Reina weren't already in your sights.
Before i watch the video i want to say its sophia from fe6 but it could be/ probably is someone else.
Odin is horrifically bad in revelations, he’s arguably the worst unit in Fates.
people really dont talk about how bad Setsuna Perri Odin and Niles are in Rev enough
@@DaniDoyle fair. Been on a binge of your videos. Really enjoy the content!
@@nicholas7525 glad you like it :)
Man. I was afraid this tier list would bring up the godawful high difficulties FE players like for some reason. I had no idea FE12 had Vantage+ which sounds like absolute cancer. Lunatic modes are generally just bad because the majority of the cast is invalidated due to how insanely strong the enemies are on top of the even worse RNG you have to deal with. They just aren't fun.
Fiona being so bad makes me so sad. I did the madman thing and actually grinded her up to level 20 in Part 1 with the infamous Glare a Priest with Nailah and then have a unit stab a statue for an hour strat. She's mostly fine even after that because her early maps are just that bad but she is surprisingly tanky once she gets going. IS definitely did not want Fiona to be used unless you really like her. In the game with no support conversations.... Fantastic. At least her armor is nice sky blue color?
Also letting your units dies is so sad. I can't ever let any of them die since I'd feel so bad.
Based Nyx placement
Ashe slander. How could MythrilZenith do this to me?
Where is FE9 Mia ??
What about Coirpre and Hannibal?
They're also pretty bad
It's obviously Karla.
Fe2 Gray feels like a weird choice. I don’t think he’s as good as Tobin or Kliff, but he is fine as a Merc, and he has more strength than them, which is pretty nice early on in particular. I wouldn’t call him amazing, but Atlas has basically no good options and Jesse sucks so I don’t get why Gray would be chosen over either of them
That's why (if i recall correctly) he ended up in "outclassed but fine". Hes not "bad" so much as everyone around him is just much better, if that makes sense
@@DaniDoyle I see what you’re saying, but 1- I don’t think gray is that outclassed, especially as a merc. It’s a pretty viable option in Gaiden. 2- picking him as the FE2 rep when Atlas and Jesse exist strikes me as off.
I'm half way through the video, maybe I missed it, but was gray chosen or was this entire list was based on the fans / community?
Rolf in PoR becomes a better unit than Fiona will ever be.
Shes so tragic even a horse cant save her
Not Nino 🙏
Lol Meg is so much fun 2 use I always make her a forged sword and bring her to the tower. I’ve always wanted to to just bonus exp spam vika and bring her to the tower but I’ve never done it. I feel like I’m radiant dawn you can make anyone work besides Fiona and lyre lol. Maybe I’ll try to make them good on a challenge run one day
Brady I find is bad because he is locked to a priest but to me Virion is 10x worse. Remember Second seals are a thing. And he is one of few with the ability to inherit Galeforce.
Mirabelle needs minimum 35 levels and 2 seals to get galeforce. without significant grinding you're not realistically reaching that until ...the final map?
@@DaniDoyle I play to break the game tbh and hell sometimes in supports ignore second seals hard.
And Virion has no attacking skills something Brady is guaranteed to at least have.
I think my favorite "bad" unit has gotta be Marty in FE5. He literally comes with ZERO speed and skill, like Kaga himself is laughing at you to just try and build him. He's so bad that when he actually does get a kill its super hype. That and his awkward portrait facing the player just make him so endearing, and when you finally promote him to Warrior he's actually kind of a beast!
Just remember, it ain't a party without marty.
He captures decently well all lance units you face early on, that's what redeems him imo
If capture wasn't a thing, then i'd think he's one of THE worst, but since he can net you money this way .. I dunno, it's not the worst thing (also i like to conserve that fucking brave lance on Finn), and yeah the promotion gains are HUGE on marty, BECAUSE his base skill and speed are atrocious.
@@crysosisback7115 Yeah capture is really his redeeming factor here, his skill is so poor that his hit is basically still the same during it lol. All in all due to his availability and strong niche I'd rank him above meh units like Robert, Alva, Mareeta, Troude ect.
@@BeautifulGaston Mareeta ain't that bad tho, her join chapter is one of the easiest, full of brigands she will absolutely murder, with a busted sword, and astra (If shannam, but i always want to get shannam, because of the meme)
Not much investment to get a unit that's going to hit 20 times, murdering any boss outside of the last
Troude is just meh yeah, completely
Meanwhile Robert and Alva are utter garbage, and imo were designed to die during their join chapter, for people to manage reaching the fort if they can't tank the south armies
I think you nailed the Ashe description, he's not bad per say having both axe and bow boons means he gets super valuable death blow and hit+20 earlier than most others, but when that is your most "unique" quality in a game with Raging storm Edelgard or battalion wrath+vantage Dimitri, it pales in comparison.
So Brady is one of the better awakening kids, he can get gale force from his mom and by the point you get to him you will have plenty of seals to reclass him and rescue staff spam is a pretty good way to grind levels while helping clear maps
Also if you wanted he starts at level 10, meaning he can be promoted right off the bat. Given that awakening level is infinite, you don’t have to worry by missing levels. I would put Brady in “not actually bad”.
Kid units in awakening can be whatever you want them to be, so it must be hard to tier them. All of them have the ability to become unstoppable player-phase demigods, except for Yarne, Gerome, and Laurent.
At least berseker yarne is low key kinda crazy. But in ability to get gale force does inherently put him below all the rest unfortunately.
@EmissaryOfSmeagol dont sleep on gerome. He makes a great rally bot w access to 4 rallys res from his mom, luck and magic from priest and Sage, then I belive troubadour turns into Fighter and gives him rally strength, then have his father past down gernal for rally defence
@@arceuskiller115 that's all true but you can just download a unit for a rallybot as well. Gerome is a good backpack if he's in Berserker if you're playing Apotheosis. Otherwise, you can go nuts and do absolutely whatever you want.
I recently did a Setsuna + Corrin backpack solo of Birthright Lunatic, so yeah, I can confirm it’s possible. Of course, that doesn’t make Setsuna good, it’s just further evidence that Birthright is super easy haha
IMO good and bad units in BR don't make it easier/harder just more/less boring haha
@@DaniDoyle lmao yeah, 100%
Mr. Tree, please have mercy for Maribelle, she has just married Libra in my save file
@@diogenes26 I saw you change your answer 👀
Satsuna my beloved 🙏
I think vika is a very funny unit in this context. She’s not actually “bad” but on top of the game not letting you train her there’s only 3 playable ravens and one of them is better than half the playable cast stat wise and the other is nealuchi.
Judging radiant dawn units is so weird tbh
@@DaniDoyle Fiona is probably the best example of that because until now I thought she was pretty decent she just has horrible chapters
I’m so sad to see Mercedes on this list.
When it comes to her attack magic she has no extra range spells or effective damage and with her good but not Constance/Lysithea level magic growth she ends up being not so great offensively. When it comes to her support magic spells she can basically full restore your whole team 2 maybe 3 times a battle. And she has physic and can take off all negative effect offs your units but the sad thing is that you usually don’t end up needing to use her support spells other than physic which makes her sadly the most meh of healers. Her full restores do come in useful on the last map in Crimson Flower though! And since she does have a good magic growth, you can put her in Valkyrie and she is decent.
To be fair, I use Lysithea as a Dancer/Mortal Savant Hybrid.
also, she's the only in-house healer who can't get Physic before Chapter 2, lame
Fortify in crimson flower is often an active detriment because it ruins Bernadetta's vengeance damage. And if you aren't running vengeance on Bernadetta then you are still gonna rather use physic to top up Edelgard while she's in Timbuktu getting picks.
Instead of talking about how the units you love are bad, we're talking about how the units we all say are bad are actually good. Let's go!
Thanks for having me on, I had a great time and can't wait for part 2.
so that's why shannam and samuel weren't here
The case with Fiona is so dumb. Ingame she's portrayed as a really strong unit being the daughter of one of Daein's former four riders and as a gameplay unit she is so incredibly bad with her bases. I think it's due to some programming error that gave her level 1 base stats instead of level 9 base stats because those base stats are NOT Level 9 stats. Then add to the fact you only get to use her for TWO chapters the first part BOTH of which are INDOOR whihc gives her a -2 to movement.
Such a shame too because she has a few good things going for her. Earth affinity and TWO free skills. But her base stats... yeah you'll need some incredible babying an d cheesing to make her viable. And bsides, the Dawn Brigade is already incredibly starved for EXP to begin with. At least she gives you another Thani tome later in the game.
I remember training Fiona to Paladin. My brown Imbue queen. What a gimmick.
It's ironic as this race is usually athletically the fittest.
Brady slander when he's a part of the Maleforce :(
My mom isn't on this list. Incomplete research.
She's in part 7 actually
One thing you missed about Robert is that he has 3 PCC (x3 crit rate on follow up). Not that it makes him good, but when trained up he can become a crappy Fergus, which is pretty funny
Crappy fergus with no Beo sword? Acceptable
Fun fact about Bors utility! In chapter 4 he can survive alright vs nomads and iron sword cavaliers so if there is one of those enemy types alive (maybe even two!!) and someone defensively weak like Elen or Lugh are in range of that enemy he can rescue them without being in a lot of danger.
another thing with ashe is if you want to make him a wyvern, he isnt awful by any means. i prefer bow knight build, but if you give him a rapier as a wyvern knight he can be a flying armor shredder
Why did y’all use Alva’s portrait for Robert? Don’t disrespect my boy Alva like that! 😭
I'll disrespect the Thracia scrubs all day
Honestly it feels so weird seeing Ashe get called a "bad unit" in general because every run I've done of 3 houses with him, he's been an invaluable MVP of my team, like playing without him feels so weird for me personally because he just always ends up really well-leveled and strong
he did better than my sylvain for my first few BL runs anyways LOL
MERCEDES IS CONSIDERED BAD? she carried me singlehandedly through all 4 of my 3h runs
there's no truly awful units in 3H except Anna
Dedicated Healers in three houses aren’t really amazing where in theory everyone can be a healer, she lacks warp along with an eh reason spell list. Fortify is very situational compare her to lindhardt and he is a vast improvement
@@nightwish1453 I don't think falling short of amazing should count as being bad.
Hey I used nyx in a revelation playthrough got her to 20 in both premotes and she had 20hp by the end of the run
Ashe isn't good, but he's merely underwhelming, not outright bad. Anna... is trash.
Anna is surprisingly useful on maddening mode for a few early chapters. She gets Heal, Curved Shot, and Wrath Strike for free, as well at level 5 for free (at a point when exp is quite tight for your long term in house students), meaning she can gets full spell casts in monk. While she's not good long term, I think having all of these upsides on a single unit without needing to invest any tutoring is more than Ashe offers, as both of them in the long term are really only useful in generically good builds that anyone can run (like vantage wrath). She theoretically has rescue pass too but I'll be honest I thin rescue is overrated in 3h, you get so many other powerful movement tools it feels unnesicary.
Oh well, here we goo because I have a lot to talk about those units.
Fiona: My favorite use of her is rescue droping Yellow units in 3-13 to block the higher grounds.
Sophia: The greatest thing I've seen one person said about her is using ch14x and ch15 to baby her and promote for another staff user, good in an ironman context.
FE2 Gray: (I don't know if this is his portrait lol) A good use is sacrifice him and choosing mage as his class to chip damage for your mercenary Kliff in chapter 1.
Setsuna BR: Fine because it's BR, I used her a lot due to my girl archer bias
Setsuna Rev: like half of the cast, bad availability
Roberto: ... Can be captured to access the special Gaiden, I guess. At least scrolls can fix him
Wolt: decent filler. Can be Marcus' support partner and gives 1 defense, 5 hit, 5 avo , 5 crit evade. They start with 20 points and are +2, so 20 turns left to build C support.
The best thing about Wolt Marcus is both can be fillers, meaning that they don't wate support slot in long term units like Allance.
And Wolt can be a good bait in ch 4 because at base he is ORKO by cavs, a perfect sacrifice when someone miss 80 hit.
And yes, you can get 2 Orion's bolt in one of the Western Isle map because one of them is from a village and the other is from all Klein's NPC
Vika: for some people is "we had Jill at home(swamp map) meme", to me is must use unit in the swamp map.
Lucia: At least she is good in RD lol
I honestly think that FE9 Wolt is better than FE10 Wolt because RD isn't a game that I want to train a unit in a part that has a lot of ready to use great units
FE1 Est: Actually fun to train, specially with triangle attack set up when one of the other sisters does the chip damage to set a crit kill to Est
Bunet: I love Bunet and hate Alfred, but sadly Alfred is better. SAD
Arden: haven't used yet because I'm lazy to move him across the map except for the pursuit ring to Noish
FE12 Yubello: ... I can't think of a way that he lives after the first few turns in ch 4 lol
FE1 Jagen: He does Jagen things pretty well with iron sword. And decent bases with 10 mov
Nyx: For a moment I thought it was CQ Nyx because I think Rev Nyx is ok lol. Rev Nyx has time to grow and build supports unlike other nohr units who joins later. CQ Nyx ... her hit rate is a big problem, usually used as mother.
Ashe: good boon choices Axe and bow are what matters to him. Brigand-> Sniper and that's it, hunter's volley death blow build ready. He will never be a good option to recruit, but he works fine in AM as a weak sniper who can non tanky units with crit
karla: her recruitment is her personality, good unit
RD Astrid: Even Paragon can't save her. F
Asaelo: I like him but I usually just use him on arena and to chip damage some ch8 wyverns. F
RD Mist: I don't remember if she can promote with a normal Master crown. The last time I promoted her was in 2018
??? How on earth is Sophia good in under an Ironman context?
@@pksprite6401 she is another staffer, you need a couple, and if you somehow manage to lose most of them Sophia can be trained to 10 and promoted in 14x, so she is "good" in that sense. Not combat wise obviously
@@felicepompa938 she’s not even good in that context. She has easily the worst staff utility in the game, needing to gain a brutal 9 levels off combat just to reach E rank, which just gives you heal. If you really want an emergency E rank staff user, Raigh even joins a bit earlier. She’s good in an Ironman context in the sense that every unit is better when they might be the literal only option you have.
brady’s section is funny because it’s a random mashup between laurent and brady himself with no warning
weakest shit unit enjoyer vs strongest S tier unit enthusiast
My inner demons are fighting again
Brady's viability is really dependent on how Maribelle and her husband's stats are like. Since his base stats are Maribelle's + her husband's stats + brady's base stats /3. Him also being able to get galeforce does make him amazing for the dlc maps where they expect you to have maxed out units so having another galeforcer can come in real handy. For a normal playthrough though, I can see him being rather forgettable. He could be quite th magic powerhouse if Ricken is the father and gives him tomefaire so he can promote to sag right away. Even as a level 10 priest, his stats are just depended on his parents in the end. The same could be said for all of the Awakening kids.
I'd say Ignatz is the better deadeye user. He gets that extra 20 hit. I think Ignatz is also overrated. I think Ashe should just go sniper honestly.
Ashe is fine but Deadeye does not make him valuable. I’m doing an AM LTC where the only units I recruit outside of story recruits are Dorothea for Opera House and Lysithea for Warp and Ashe’s only niche outside of one Deadeye in Ch. 4 is Smiting in Ch. 12 which anyone can do. Even in CS Ashe is a meme.
Paragon can’t be removed from Astrid in Part 2 to pass through to the GM’s via Marcia (or maybe it’s just Geoffrey you can’t get Paragon off of) I’ve tried.
I think Lynn and Eliwood are arguably some of the worst units in the series. Because they're force deployed on some maps and are game over conditions, they are an active detriment if you don't train them. But they're such a pain in the ass to train that it's even more of a detriment if you do train them. With most bad units, even if they suck, you can just not use them and they won't hurt you. But with Lynn and Eliwood, they hurt you no matter what you do.
I know you could argue that other "bad" lords have the same dynamic going on, but I disagree. With other lords, they're force deployed on EVERY map in the game, not just some of them. This means that in almost all cases, it is worth it to train them (only possible exception is Roy, but most people would say he is still worth it to train, at least for new players).
Honestly I strongly disagree with your assessment regarding Flora. Flora at worst is a mediocre staff bot. The formula for staff accuracy in Fates is (Hit + Magic + Skill + Weapon Level Bonus). The only maids you can capture in Conquest are in chapters 18 and 26. A chapter 18 maid has 17 mag and 21 skill, while Flora (who for context can come in right before ch19) has 16 mag and 25 skill. A/B rank gives +5 hit and S rank gives +10 hit. So after adding it up, disregarding staff accuracy, the generic maid has 48 hit and Flora has 46 hit. She is technically worse but only by 2 points and for a unit you get for free. Which in the context of assessing units is always a big bonus, getting a unit for free is always a boon no matter what. So at the bare minimum Flora is doing staff work, primarily with the freeze staff, for free with no investment or capture needed. She's still low tier in the context of Conquest, but that doesn't make her worst of the worst at all, especially when a free freeze user is extremely useful. She's definitely better then FE12 Bantu whose the closest FE has come to a genuinely unuseable unit and Sophia who gets orko'd in her join map by mages and only gives a guiding ring. She for sure does more then BR Setsuna who at most can ohko fliers in chapters 11/13 and that's about it. The placement is also especially egregious considering that Izana isn't even on this list, even though he comes later with the same points you levied against Flora. Flora is definitely mediocre and a bottom 10 unit in Conquest. But she far outranks most of the units on this list, let alone being called worst of the worst.
Yeah in retrospect I'm probably a bit too mean to her just because of how she stacks up in comparison to conquests cast, the fact that the rest of the units are so strong makes me feel bad about her in comparison but she definitely doesn't belong in the same tear as absolute trash like a bantu
@@DaniDoyle Honestly that makes sense. When everyone is so consistently good, to be on par with a generic is really bad game feel. It doesn't help that Flora, even in the context of Conquest, ends up being lower tier anyway. I get why you feel that way about Flora, because it really is just "how much do you value freeze use". That reminds me how Izana is completely outclassed by a generic Onmyoji in ch22 which has shurikenbreaker and tomefaire. Having units on par/outclassed by generics in a cast as strong as Conquest just feels bad. So I do get where you were coming from.
How is Mercedes on this list for 3 houses, but not Manuella, and especially not Hanneman? These 2 join late with terrible bases, no training and have basically nothing going for them in term of exclusive aspects. At best Manuella has warp but with the most laughable range possible, and Hanneman can support with meteor equipped but has a terrible support list. Truly 2 terrible units in 3H
I made an entire video on Mercedes that explains my issues with her (as a unit) if you're curious why I think shes the worst 3h unit. I agree that Hanneman and Manuella are bad as well, but I cannot fit every bad unit on this list (it already took us like 3 hours with just the ones we have) and they're kinda boringly bad which is why I didn't include them.
Super late to the party, but Jade should have definately made the list over Lapis for the worst units from Engage. Lapis has decent prospects as a wyvern knight for the mid/ late game AND has a great personal skill. Meanwhile Jade has possibly the worst join time in the game, weak growths, bad stats, meh personal skill, and even if trained you just get another Bunet. Lindon also shouldn't be here either, I think bouch or clanne make better options.
I agree that jade is AWFUL, the reason I included lapis was this video was made at the height of "Lapis S tier" mindset and I wanted to push back because while she's workable she's still just... Really mediocre after heavy investment. We made a "revisiting" video a few months later, and I have my engage tier list if you want more specific thoughts on Lapis
@@DaniDoyle I actually do think Lapis is pretty average as well, I was just amazed that Jade was able to slip by.😂 Its interesting that Waifu hype can change how people see units though, Marisa and Lyn come to mind.
me training wolt and using him with murgleis in endgame. following my heart 💕
i agree that sophia is garbage tho and i never used any armor knights in fe6 cuz cavaliers are just bulky enough lmao
Amelia is potentially the only "Halberdier" in GBAFE which makes her extremely cool as far as I'm concerned
I do not understand why Mercedes and Lapis were on this list. Mercedes' biggest flaw is that healing magic isn't amazing in 3H and other units have healing magic second (Marianne, Lysithea, Coco, Hapi)
But lapis? I'm sorry but i just cant call a unit with enough speed and atk to double a fair few earlygame enemies, upgrades into arguably the best individual class in engage and even (barely) out classes one of the games 4 lords, who is supposed to be her but better a bad unit
What is your opinion on Diamant?
14:40 Darn, that was my opportunity to simply add the comment "hate speech", but I double checked and you did pick out the right portrait.
Edit: Apparently, all Yumi have one additional might relative their Bow equivalents, with about 10 less hit. Not noticably worse tbh.
Your co-host baffled with the statement that Bernadetta is nothing without Vengeance, it's absolute BS. Her other combat arts Encloser and Deadeye provide insane bow utility with her potential attack range and encloser just being really good for turning an enemy unit off for a turn. Has one of the easiest personals to use and get returns from. Also learns Battalion Wrath and Pass like huh? Her worst attribute is her low STR growth. Literally is like still amazing unit without vengeance. (For some reason if you used her as a magic unit she gets Rescue and Physic which is also a plus, anyone with physic excels with little to no investment. ) My guy cant deal with an axe bane for Death Blow and his whole argument on why she is a worse archer. Its literally a D+ Cert at minimum. She also has free damage from the start of CHP1 and will outclass him in the same build. I'm just so confused how you could say he is better in that build specifically. While she doesn't have a boon in axes she will for horses and gets so much more tools for Bow Knight Deadeye build.
Well at least my man Bunet is at the top of the tier list for once
Delicious
I am a massive Vander supporter, and I will say, he isn’t awful, he’s got good growths and decent build. His big problem is his awful bases and his massive internal level (Level 15), so he can’t even take advantage of his pretty good growths until later edge game
Paladin also doesn’t help him, I recommend shifting him into a different class as soon as possible
TBH I don't think you reclass Vander because in a vanilla playthrough you don't use him after chapter 8 (which is when you first get access to second seals)
Fair enough honestly. I’m a bit biased cause I’m a Vander simp so maybe that’s why I think he’s really good
I wouldn't count his growths as good either unless you're comparing it to jagen or that type.
1:16:12 This claim is absurd. Ashe and Bernadetta have identical growths in STR, DEX, and SPD and the same STR base. Ashe has slightly higher base DEX and SPD (by 1 and 2, respectivley) but this difference is negligible. Ashe's boon in axes making it easier to go into Brigand is not that substantial either when compared to an In-house Bernie or a recruited Bernie in Fighter as D+ axes is easy to get. When it comes to averages, they'll be identical in the same Classes, but Bernie has her personal skill which makes her stronger than Ashe on average which, when comparing them as Deadeye spamming Bow Knights, is the main factor of comparison. So, even without vengeance, Bernadetta would be equal, if not slightly better, than Ashe in the same role.
That is the point that I made, they have virtually identical stats, and are a good demonstration of why stats are not a defining point in three houses.
My Wolt at 13 was +1 HP/+3 Str/+0 Sk/+1 Sp/+3 Luck/+1 Def/+0 Res on his averages. Ahead or average at literally everything. Klein was still better. So like...why am I gonna bother using an Orion's Bolt on him? Especially since Shin's right there too. Deeply unfortunate cause I wanted to root for my boy. He just fell off.
That's a classic wolt moment
Journeyman 2 promotes to either Journeyman 3 or a Hero.
Recruit 2 promotes to either Recruit 3 or Paladin.
Pupil 2 promotes to either Pupil 3 or Sage.
I wanted to use jade jn engage when I got her and when I did
- 0 HIT
- Got 1 shot by most units for some fkn reason
- hits like a wet noodle
Now shes my strongest unit, this also happened with Gregor(awakening), Ignatz(3 houses) and fukin peri(fates)
Mist requires Holy Crown and cannot use the Master Crown. She can, however, just hit level 21 to promote like any other unit, and that is what was changed from Japanese to English versions. In Japanese versions you need a promo item to reach Tier 3 classes (but not Tier 2).
Derrick from Berwick Saga is the worst character in all of fire emblem, unless you don't count berwick saga as fire emblem.
- His weapon skill growth is terrible, and he uses the least accurate weapon type so he never hits anything.
- He doesn't join unless/until the Est promotes, so his availabilty is dogwater, and then he joins at level 3. THREE
- Defensive armor class units get gimped in this game because the hex grid makes blocking chokepoints not really a thing, and then the turn system incentivizes you heavily to defeat enemies rather than simply render them ineffective.
- By the time he joins all the enemies are blasting magic so his armor/def is meaningless. Daggers also ignore it.
- Large shields are expensive and he never dodges so if you want him to tank stuff he churns through your money.
- No stats besides def. No growths. His TOTAL growth rate across five stats is 70. 20/30/0/20/0
- Has less average strength than the myrmadon after level 17-ish. The myrmadon joins in chapter 2.
- No notable skills. Ironically gets Mercy, which leaves enemies with 1 hp, which is good for grinding up your bad units, but he IS the bad unit.
- 3 movement oml
- Literally unplayable in like half the maps. No, not like its hard, no, not like TAS only. Literally unplayable. His armor class makes certain terrain like cliffs and sand require 4 move to traverse. So he gets confined to the starting position. ITS JUST SAND, DERRICK
- Maps with turn limits are technically playable, but also out of the question.
- He's not even fun to use. Whiffing is annoying. Getting doubled is annoying. Taking forever to move anywhere is annoying. Grinding levels isn't rewarding you with better stats.
I'm gonna dispute Bunet being as low as he is.
Yes; he is bad. for an Engage unit. But all the units in Engage are usable. You could stick Bunet in any other game and he would be at worst passable.
He's the worst unit in his game. But he's still not awful. He should really be in the same tier as Ashe.
oh, lord. I got near the end of the video and was like, "they're only halfway through"
There's a part 2 AND a part 3!
Can't believe Jesse is in this list. He becomes the best unit after you mummy grind him and dread fighter loop him to capped stats. I will have to leave a dislike and report this video for misinformation.
I have played PoR once, and by some Miracle, I ended up using Lucia because my Mia got stat screwed, benched her, my Zihark got stat screwed, and I didn't want to use Stefan because he was blatantly broken. So - his Vague Katti was passed to Lucia, who had better stats than Zihark and filled out my supports perfectly. Gave her the PoR special of Resolve + Wrath and she became one of the best Pre-promotes I had ever used. I do acknowledge I JUICED her with those tools, and was only relevant because my other swordmastets came out bad, but probably one of my favorite units I've used.
48:42 Journeyman2 promotion options are Super Journeyman or Hero. Recruit2 promotion options are Super Recruit or Paladin. Pupil2 promotion options are Super Pupil or Sage. And they all share the same +0 Con promotion bonuses.
So there're a few things about two archers. Setsuna and Roberto are actually quite fun in their own ways
- Setsuna takes the advantage of her class. Though Yumis are inacurate, she compensates for with Certain Blow from Sniper. Her strength is not much of an issue, because of the Quick Draw(she gets Bowfaire as well from Sniper, but that's a really far way). So generally she can hit hard and thankfully she doubles rather reliably. She's still mediocre, but those things I just wanted to mention, because there're units even in Birthright who are just too weak(Rinkah, Hinata are the first who come to mind)
- Roberto is a funny unit, because he's one of the few characters in the game who can 2RKO(with the dance of course) the final boss on 0%, because of his support with Selphina and Glade, Brave Bow additional crit and his 3 FUCC. This doesn't give him any additional points to rank him higher, but this is some fun fact
lindon is very deadly +20% cri from skill, 1 extra thunder hit from rings
if u stack cri on him, he always kills ppl
I'm surprised Ashe is seen as a bad unit, he carried my Blue Lions route as a bow knight
I guess 3 houses is just one of those games that lets bad units get better, i dunno, ez-crit arrows that can hit almost anyone on that map in 1-2 turns seems pretty good
I have not played every game but not sure how you can get worse than 0 speed 0 skill Marty. Other than Shirou in TRS I guess who is worse than the generic bow knight allies you get during his chapter. Lionheart totally foisted him on Runan because he didn't want him. Man can't even use Iron Bows at base.
Lindon with dire thunder + wrath is good and funny
my fondest fe6 meory is that the gods decided bors would be a monster and by the end of my playthrough he capped speed, strenthg and defense
I too, had a speed capped bors. But in all honesty even when he don't get much speed I still use him. Uses axe and can tank anything. I don't care if he doenst double. Bors is a beast
That’s not Roberto that’s my boy Alba a very good knight, you guys have done him bad