Bf-109 k4 Vs P-51 Mustang Western Front World War 2 Dogfight | Digital Combat Simulator | DCS |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2023
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On this channel we like to do a lot of dogfighting most videos are some sort of dogfight between 2 different aircraft as we explore their different capabilities. From time to time I like to dabble in Virtual Reality, I think VR is a great new technology and I love to show that stuff off for the channel from time to time.
If you enjoy war thunder or Microsoft flight simulator 2020 or even dogfighting in Battlefield 2042, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8. - เกม
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LINK TO FIRST VIDEO: th-cam.com/video/dD2ODPqYhEU/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=GrowlingSidewinder
Thank you guys for watching and Hope you enjoyed the rematch as many of your requested, if you have any ideas for future videos please put them in the comment section below and they might just end up in the pipeline, thanks again, much Love.
Love the content, keep it up!
No surprise that the Kurfurst did so well. It was easily the best version of the 109. The 109G was a slug that would usually fairly easily lose to the P-51D. (The F model series 109 was stated to be better than the G model by Luftwaffe pilots). Now if it was the P-51H vs the Bf-109K (H model isn't in DCS to my knowledge), it would have gone differently. Nice flying GS, and to the opponent.
German 262 jet WW2 vs p51 mustang? Could be neat. Obviously you can kill new jets, so nothing you can't handle.
Tbh spitfire vs bf109 would be better. The true rivals of ww2 aviation
@@nootnoot7787and also fw 190 Vs hawker hurricane
Waiter, waiter! More WWII dogfights please!
Escusemoix gárcon!
Absolutely sir would you like it with ice?
@@shelby2561 And a side of ground attack, too, please.
& For desert, I would like some WW1 dogfights, please.
WW1 Level Bombing in VR is the most terrifying way to play. You sit in a flak cloud for 60 seconds before dropping bombs, then 60 seconds after. Pray you don't get hit by the shrapnel you hear whizzing by
Good example of how a pilot's skill with their aircraft can make all the difference. Not knowing those pros and cons can easily turn a difficult encounter to disaster or success.
The WWII content is my favorite, but I like how you rotate what you're doing so that it never gets old. Thank you and congratulations on imminently reaching 500K, I celebrate your success 🤘
Much agree! This channel never disappoints! Always something great to watch. 😁👍💪💪
Good technique of cutting the engine at the top of the hammerhead. Prevents the engine from over revving and cutting off during the dive.
fun to watch, I do wish you had switched planes and done another two. He's great at avoidance but I'm not sure he knows the P51 on a level he needs to fight you with it.
I've watched his videos for quite a while & I don't think I've ever seen him in a P-51 or F-15C. There seem to be a few aircraft he just won't fly
@@wadefarris308 well he has but not many p51 vs actual people, only missions. I dont know about the f15 tho.
@@wadefarris308 he's done it several times but it's been a while, he's even used it against the k4 successfully.
@wadefarris308 He has flown the F-15C a few times before. You can search a few videos of them
@@donakahorse and using the same tactics :-)
The advantage that the Bf-109 had in these fights was it only needed a fraction of the range that was necessary for the P-51. The P-51 had a range of 1650 miles versus 547 for the Bf-109. The fact that you could build a plane that could fly hundreds of miles of miles that still had excellent dog fighting capabilities is an amazing engineering feat. It was far easier to put a short range hot rod fighter to the skies than to build a marvel like the P-51.
Yeah, but this doent help much anymore in a merge...
That's his point. The P51 was an escort fighter. The BF109 was a intercept fighter. Yes, both fighters, but had two different roles to fill. Both were incredible aircraft.
Was that P-51 range with drop tanks included?
@@gfarrell80 of course but the Jug filled that role better than the p51 in my opinion.
@@dreaminknight I think this merge dogfight above 15000 ft goes to the P-51. I wonder if they'd try it?
Amazing fights, and a great demonstration of the 109's lethality! The tactic you describe at 3:45 is exactly why I love this plane. It's very easy to fight in the vertical with the 109 and take the energy advantage. A small piece of advice that might help - don't worry as much about getting hits with the 30mm, your 12mm MG 131 has vastly higher muzzle velocity and lots more rounds, and is plenty for wrecking an enemy fighter. Psychologically I think it's very easy to fall into trying to line up the perfect 30mm shot instead of just gunning the target down with 12mm.
my inner nerd is going 'erm is a 13mm'
@@dawae3080 whoops typo!
@@hanswolfgangmercer From personal experience, with DCS I mean, I have to slightly, just slightly disagree here. If you can line up the 30mm properly, most of the times, one hit is all that`s needed.
Granted, aiming with that damn cannon isn`t an easy thing to do. The Mk.108 has horrendous ballistics. As you correctly stated, the muzzle velocity was much less since the barrel was, in practicality, too short for an airborne cannon. The problem was the space within the engine compartment itself. If I remember correctly, the predecessor of the Mk.108 actually had a longer barrel. But then again, it had to fit within the engine of the 109 so they had to shorten it. Hence the wonky trajectory of the rounds.
That`s why the Mossie is one of my favourite go-to WWII fighters in that arena. Or the Spitfire.. Those 20mm Hispanos just wreck everything in its path. And have far superior ballistics.
The Bf 109K-4 was a plane that could keep up with a P-51 Mustang in most aspects. A reason why the _Luftwaffe_ suffered very heavy losses in the first half of 1944 was that their primary single-engined fighters were the Bf 109G-6, which only had a top speed of 386 mph (way slower than the P-47's with the "paddle" propellers and the P-51B/C models) and the Fw-190A models, which had performance fall off dramatically above 20,000 feet altitude.
Pilot skill also played a factor. There were some interesting differences in how experienced pilots where employed through both airforces.
In 1944 the Luftwaffe was vastly outnumbered. Already in 1942 over Dieppe there were around 200 german planes fighting against 1000 allied planes, a ratio of 1:5. By end of 1943 the numbers were more like 1:20..30. That was the decisive factor.
@@Feuerschaf But yet, the RAF suffered very heavy losses over Dieppe because the Spitfire Mk. V was no match for the Fw 190.
@@Feuerschaf Das darf man aber nicht in einem englischsprachigen Forum sagen. Der Sieger und dessen Derivate konstruieren nun einmal die passende Geschichte.
@@berndbrakemeier1418 Was für ein Unsinn, die numerische Überlegenheit der westlichen Alliierten in der Luft ist allgemein bekannt.
Absolute correct, the BF 109 was made for "dive, shoot, climb", the center mounted guns also alowed to shoot from bigger distances...The German Aces, Adolf Galland, Werner Mölders and Erich "Bubi" Hartmann use it to perfection. Hartmann had 352 confirmed kills. Hans Joachim Marseille, had 158 confirmed kills over north Africa.He was not the typical german "Zoom and boom" fighter. He was known as an extraordinary pilot (with lack of discipline) with "dead eye" shooting precision.
Yeah Marseille could truly get the most out of his 109's... Loved the F model, hated the G2, which is the one that eventually killed him. Would have been interesting, had he lived, what he could have done in the later G models (G10 or G14) or a K4. Or even more hypothetically, throw the engine from the K4 into an F4... That'd be in interesting, though likely impossible combination.
I love these dogfights, they're always more exciting than BVR fights for me in the sim, especially when I'm slinging missiles that aren't easy to defeat, it's not quite as much of a dance like these fights tend to be. These WW2 planes and the early jets are just excellent to fly and fight with, I'd really love to see more of them in DCS, especially some of the Japanese or Italian planes, and other older jets like the Meteor or G.91.
Just a quick word to thank you, because of you and your videos I’m flying DCS for 2 years now in VR, mostly WW2, I learned a lot watching your videos, keep it up!
Usually when I hear the term "turn fighter" I always got the impression of "rate fighter" because everyone wants to two-circle in them. That was my experience back when I would regularly play IL-2 Forgotten Battles/1946 online in a PVP server. This was especially true for the A6M Zero series. They were great at rate fights but their poor roll rates made one-circle fights a bit tricky. Now the FW-190 had an amazing roll rate which although it was not regarded as a "turn fighter" the roll rate combined with a good instantaneous turn rate made it very good at one-circle fights.
Big respect for "oldie but goldie" IL-2. The peak of fun online sim-fights.
I would really like to see him play IL-2 Sturmovik lol
YES, finally a full on ww2 video again, you dont know how much ive been waiting for this.
Also in the first round his biggest mistake was climbing, the bf 109 is an absolute beast at climbing so he had no chance there. In the second round i liked how you could really see how small the bf 109 is at compared to the p-51 (timestamp 12:12).
Been watching lots of random WW2 history content after seeing Oppenheimer. That’s has the knock-on effect of me giving WW2 DCS content a hard look recently after viewing strictly jet content for years. Would love to see some 2v2 wingman action to see how that plays out in this intimate style of dogfighting!
Thanks for all of the amazing content over the years! Question: could you do a P-38, Mediterranean or ETO dogfight?
The p38 isn't in DCS, don't know about il2 tho
@@HippoDrippo- the P38 is indeed in IL-2.
Great throw down as always. Spad vs. Albatros? Doesn’t get anymore personal than a WW1 dogfight.
As you were talking about how much you miss these WWII dogfights, a question came to my mind: when was the first time an aicraft used a missile (or the ancestor of the missile) during a dogfight?
Well both the AIM-4 Falcon and AIM-9 missiles were introduced in 1956, very likely first fired by the F-4 Phantom
@@somepolishguy8228first fired by F86s
And AiM-7's tested on Hellcats
In a dogfight ? Early IR missiles needed to be fired at the engine of the enemy, i.e. at his 6. That required more sneaking behind him than dogfighting. Missiles used against aircraft in WW2 were e.g. R4Ms against enemy bomber formations. Those were unguided missiles. Possibly a pilot used them also against fighters but then I guess to get rid of them to reduce weight in first place.
@@Feuerschaf Those R4Ms only needed to do one hit against a bomber either to outright destroy it or to make it go home. Thing was a scary weapon if it could hit.
Thank you for today's video and all your others, I really enjoy your content! Would you be open to doing a video with a P47D? I'm not a pilot and don't really know what I'm talking about, but I read Robert S. Johnson's biography (27 kills with 24 being single seat fighters in Europe). He said nothing could roll with the P47, even though it was big and heavy. I would be very interested in seeing a video on this and hearing your take. Thanks!
I generally think of the P51 as a pure energy fighter, the spitfire as a pure turn fighter, and the BF109 as a solid mix. Although I also think the different models of the 109 varied more in terms of whether it was more of an energy or a turn fighter more so than other planes.
Compared to the earlier models, the K is very much an energy fighter. It can't turn with a Spitfire anymore, but once you have an energy advantage, you'll rip pretty much any opponent.
That's what makes the 109 my favorite. Most other warbirds have one type of fight they can do and if they can't force the fight to be that fight, they lose. The 109 is an energy fighter against spitfires, a turn fighter against mustangs, and superior in every respect to the rest of the lineup.
Early models like the E's and F's were pretty handy turnfighters, while the later G's and K were purepred energy fighters with massive power-to-weight ratio's while also not being slouches in turning.
I would just say 109,spits,and yaks were light fighters the p51 and d9 were medium weight fighters that's what I say
I'd like to see more WW1 fights.
that fire and smoke trail after the first round... beautiful, cinematic.
I’ve been watching daily for years. This never gets old. Awesome fight, great vid!
Cool, some tail-dragger action :)
Really like the more rough planes. Prop planes, f-14, etc.
BF-109 K-4 is such a gorgeous plane
Your DCS videos are by far the best on yt. 500k are well deserved. Keep up the good work!
absolutely love the WWII dogfights and they keep me coming back for more! great content all around
Can’t wait to see what this entails. Love the content recently GS, keep it up bro🙌🙌🔥
I would love to see a BF-109K-4 vs the F-22, it would be an interesting fight for sure.
Here we go
Real dogfight
😍
2:00 that throttle up sound is just mad
Much like a P-39 or a MiG-15/17/19 the guns on this will not have the same point of aim. The 30mm (or 20mm in earlier versions) shooting through the prop boss was generally intended to blow up bombers with a hit or two. If you try hitting with the cowl mounted MG 131 .51 caliber that's probably a better strategy.
He was using the MG at the end of the last fight. Even so, the MG is nose-mounted. He was having issues landing the hits due to the lack of convergence.
Great video as usual GS!
Regarding the 30mm cannon embedded in the 109, the G-10/U4 and G-14/U4 was equipped with this armament. In fact, every 109G/K with very big fairings over the wings were equipped with thisMK108.
GS saw the response to the last video and delivered in ONE DAY. Keep up the great work man, so close to 500K!
This makes me miss Battle of Britain (BOB) on the Commodore Amiga 2000. Loved the WWII battles. Was playing in the early 90s.
I absolutely loved this, and the last video! Keep them coming! Great job!
Love all your WWII stuff. Your skill in these matches is a sight to behold. More please.
Yes! I’ve really been missing the WW2 content. I’d love to see some P-51 action as well. Keep up the amazing quality GS!
Well flown! Great watching WW2 dogfighting like this!
He started each fight with him having an advantage of him above his enemy.
I would watch GS do WWII stuff just as much as the modern jet scenarios. If he posted a WWII campaign bit by bit I would probably watch all those too. Learned a lot from this guy and all of the video styles he does are great, even the less serious ones. More warbirds !
Archer is a great pilot but GS does what GS does. Two great fights. Awesome work 👏🏼
Yesss! I’ve just been watching your IL2 videos last couple days! More please!
i didnt know wwii planes exist on dcs and you fly great on it.. it's breath taking rather than flying those modern birds, this is absolutely fun to watch as i dont blink my eyes👊😁
Finally! Thank you! WWII fights are so good!
Great job! Awesome video! I'd really like to see some ejection or bailing out in the end shots after you send them in. Love your channel. Keep it up! 😁👍💪💪
Saw the rematch vid come up. Had to click like button instantly!!! 🎉
Ww2 fights are the best ACM's, like you said it's down to skill! Flaps in the 109 and especially the p51 help the most in the famous overshooting scissor knife fight, I used to fly in warbirds, I learned every plane I could fly! The Ki84 is a German killer but my plane of choice was the P47...I got good at low speed flying using flaps, 4000 hp supercharged radial would pull the weight back to speed effortlessly. I miss flying! It's my passion....I was in top 5 of the world leader boards!
This reminds me so much of Combat Flight Simulator in the 90s. I used to love that as a kid!
I absolutely LOVE the sounds effects of the engines. Sound so amazing in headphones.
The knife fight in a telephone booth... Back then, you knew one of you was walking back, if you even made it back.
I enjoy the wwII fights, I do agree on the up close and personal aspect of it. Thank you for the entertainment
Glad to see you giving some WWII warbirds some TLC.
Thanks for the great rematch, Arch3r. Great flying.
Even though i don't play DCS or any other flying sim for that matter, your content is awesome. Love me aome old school dog fights. Keep up the good work
Great WW2 content. I agree with several folks that talked about start altitude...I'd be interested in this fight at 25, 000 feet, where the 109 would be trying to get at B-17s/B-24s, and the 51 is playing interceptor. Or, even better, it should be a bounce, with a 109 coming in on the six of 2-4 P-51s at 8-10, 000 as the P-51s are on a fighter sweep. Lot's of good combinations.
Thank you for the WWII fight…
I MISSED THEM
WWII fights are my favorite! Would love to see more!
You ask, you receive. Ty uploading it and great vid!
Love the JG-26 Schlageter scheme.
Dam GS, already doing the match up? You make these so dam fast!!
This will be a fun one!!
Great video and commentary!
Words cannot describe my excitement to see this in my feed
Beenhere since you were 70k subs congrats on almost reaching 500k
Many thanks for sticking around so long, I appreciate you.
Hit with fire at 10:18 was a fueltank puncture and ignition. Engine was still going strong, but I guess the DCS hits-program doesn't count a fueltank fire as devastating as the IL-2 program does. In IL-2 the fueltank would explode after a few moments.
Oh nice, I figured it would be more of a wait to get this one. Good stuff.
I didn't know the 109 had that flare launcher in the cockpit!
Great fight! Glad for the rematch! Maybe some with you flying the P-51?
Absolutely love the sound of the engines
1v1 ww2 fights have been something I’ve been waiting for for ages!
imagine if you were up against Erich Alfred Hartmann, the most successful fighter ace in the history of Ariel warfare...
Very interesting history.
Great video yet again 👏
The 30mm was also an option for some of the later G models as well.
Love the regular content, but like a lot of us, I'm very much enjoying some WWII relying on pure energy conservation and precise limited gunnery. When all else fails, pure pilot skill is everything. Every trick in the book :)
Love the WW2 birds and I've subscribed. Would love to see Battle of Britain fights with BF-109E vs Spitfire Mk1 and/or Hurricane Mk1 (updated with constant speed prop).
After seeing the latest version of Two Morons, I forgot how much I liked the WWI biplane fights- would love to see you back in a Sopwith Camel
THANK YOU! for the ww2 content! We looked forward to seeing more of it!
Yes! More WW2 fighters please! Love the videos
I was just looking in the channel
thnx !!
Good fight both !!!
More of these please.
nOICE! More WW2 fights/missions/slaps/kills please! :)))
ya'll should try the P-47 VS the 109
Thank you for this vid, I like this WW2 fighting. Please do more. :)
Great high-aspect gunnery from Arch3r in the P-51 at 6:47.
I think the reason why the P51 hit you at the start is because you went up directly vertical, giving him enough room to put his sights onto you. If he was sharper you would have been dead then and there - instead I believe you should've gone for a vertical spiral opposite the direction of which he turned (i.e. a counter-clockwise vertical spiral). That would have removed his ability to put his guns on you before stalling.
He misjudged the energy state of the P-51. He also had taken his eyes off the P-51 and when he looked back, the rounds were already inbound. If he'd have kept his eyes on the P-51, he'd have at least been able to dodge the tracers (he'd have seen them coming).
@@unixfool I think to a degree you are correct, but just because he can see them doesn't mean he's capable of fully dodging, especially near a stall state where the plane has less significantly reduced mobility. So it's no guarantee
Not sure if DCS has the F variant of the 109 but that would be a good one against an early p51. Also any 190's with the radial. Awesome vid man.
Props Hell ya this is where the good dog fights are 👍
excellent flying sir
10:40 He just indentified as a rocket powered jet, you gotta accept and tolerate that
I love these, so much fun to watch
Loving these. You in p-47 vs 109. Would love to see how you handle that.
Superb rematch with an outstanding fight. Would love to see the K4 against a Spitfire.
yessss i've been waiting for this!
Great fight Arch3r. Well flown. I'd like to see pilots swap places for best of five. I'll watch the longer videos with fights this good (I'll watch the longer videos anyway.)
The vid that GS took the (I think) worlds 1st jet fighter and fought the WWI planes. lol I think it would be very entertaining to launch a fully armed Thunderbolt against a full squadron of WWII planes. I mean full out...missiles and everything against a dozen or so enemies. I would be curious if a Spitfire could possibly dodge a Fox2 just from it very low heat signature and impressive turning rate. In any case, great vid.
Been patiently waiting for the day the WW2 content comes back, let’s goooo
9:28 is a perfect example of how just rolling does nothing when someone is sitting behind you. Unlike in most movies.
More WW2 content would be great! Love everything that you bring to us though!