Let’s Turn $6000 Tables Into Giant Science Experiments
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024
- The comments for this video are on the Fireball forum, a place to ask questions, share your thoughts, and easily search the topics that interest you:
fireball.disco...
Today, I ask the question what really makes the strongest and most durable welding table? After seeing these claims, I put the Siegmund table to the test against a welding table that was inspired by all other welding tables, the Fireball Dragon Wagon. I test to see what makes a strong and durable table surface, what makes a strong constructed frame, what makes a durable frame, and if the legs on a welding table can connect to a table with strength and durability. Join me on this shop science journey, where I do some fabrication testing, and find out how it all works!
Get the fixture table system here:
fireballtool.com
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
If anyone would like to discuss this video with me, I'll be in the Fireball forum here:
fireball.discourse.group/t/new-fireball-video-fixture-table-design-challenge/2973
Nice to see the comments turned on. I watched this video last night on your website. The dragon wagon is clearly nicer, but both tables are impressive. Always fun to watch you go mad scientist mode and strive to destroy your own creations.
This is the only TH-cam channel that I watch which is entirely dedicated to being an ad. And I just watched a 45 minute ad front to back.
Love the comments being back on. Dude makes cool products he's passionate about, and it pissed me off seeing the bullshit hate in the comments.
And i know that the complaining commenters are full of it. I'm a welding engineer. Getting good dimensional control with welds is a major challenge. The truly talented welders i know almost never say no to better methods for quick and easy fit-up.
While this is obviously an ad for the fireball table, I don't think it's unfair at all. It's nice to see people comparing their own products to the competition on a level playing field and actually showing why they're superior instead of just saying stuff. Kudos.
How much for the Fireball table you beat to death? I can still use that.
Dude was WALLOPPING the top of the table leg with a sledge, WHILE it has 1.5 tons of force pulling it, and the heads of the bolts popped off before the leg broke. This design has some friggin magic in the mix or something. Its awesome to see things like this being manufactured in North America still. This table will outlive us all. Good stuff Jason and Fireball
If you're gonna do a shake test, get the proper test equipment. Put one of those dashboard hula girls or bobble heads on the table when you shake for dramatic effect. :)
I been waiting a long time for a good classic fireball video. Thank you and keep them coming please!
The nice thing about your table is that it more or less has a fail safe in that the bolts and the top leg tube fail as opposed to the work surface.
To be honest, when you revealed the leg design you got me! I was like whaaat, he did actually got rid of rattling and wobbling!
I've never welded anything in my life yet I want me one of those dragon wagons haha
One of the most impressive things for me is the repeatability of the tests... The ratchet tie down strap test is a perfect example. I've used it in arguments with police and transport officials (the people who can't do my job - truck driving - but tell me what I'm doing wrong) when they try to write me up for having a twist in the strap between the tie rail and the vertecies of the load/s. Harmonic oscillation induced wear (see Tacoma Narrows bridge)... If there was ONE additional test I'd like to see in that video, it would be how much effect wind induce vibration cuts the fibres of these straps on fold-over points... Probably a bit difficult to set up in a fabrication workshop.
Thanks for your excellent techniques.
This is the most respectable way to point out your competition's inferiority.
Nice one. I also think it's good you've turned on your comments. Maybe get some haters, but I applaud your tools, your work and your approach. Thanks. This was a bit 'advertorial' in that I doubt you'd have uploaded if the Fireball table didn't 'win', but I think the tests were honest and your table is superior, which I thought it would be. I do think you've desigend and do build a better table(s). Your big vice is superb and peerless. More of the same, please, Jason and team! Appreciate the hard work and effort that goes into these videos.
I am not a welder, but have been watching your videos for a few years now. Great job showing a fair comparison of your products to the others on the market. It is also nice to see your tables popping up on other YT channels. Keep up the great work and please More Videos!!
I’m not sure why I watched this whole video. I already own a Dragon Wagon. Just fun seeing stuff tested. For anyone thinking about one of these, the legs and casters are what makes this table. They are so well built and steady.
Those white casters are about the cheapest garbage available. I had a similar set on an engine hoist I bought. It nearly ended in disaster when the caster folded up and tipped it over sideways when lifting a heavy load. It smashed my trailer, bent the reese hitch and narrowly missed my SUV. You should compare the sideways loads on the casters because they would likely fail before anything else.
I absolutely LOVE your way of testing and your sentiment about it during testing. No bias, no condesending remarks just observed facts.
You, sir, build STRONG welding tables👍👍
I think if you make the bolts weaker you only nee to replace de bolts and not the leg.
I bought the 4.5’x8.5 foot Fireball Tool welding table and love it. It is a great table.
I was honestly surprised the cast iron didn't crack with the hammer impacts
Gotta love that Jason is doing so much of this torture testing ON TOP of another Fireball welding table.
As a retired mechanical engineering manager, we had various projects throughout my career, mostly in the defence industry. We had tests to complete in front of the M.o.D. technician's. We used SG iron for our gearboxes as it gave us superior overall strength. Similar to your testing we had load cells, transducers, etc. Thankfully we never failed because, like your Dragon Wagon we had designed the gearboxes to withstand at least double the rated load. I have always admired Fireball as the design, material, machining and finishing are well thought out and in my opinion are superior to other similar products manufactured by other companies. The legs on the Dragon Wagon are built to withstand abuse, not to just merely support the table top. I loved the weld spatter test, you could see how much abuse the welding gun dealt to the flat stock by the large undercut the weld had. Really interesting post, thank you 👍
Just an idea, use a fixture to suspend a plum bob over a scale from both sides. Have a camera watch both and note the changes on where the bob is. This way you are away from the danger zones, I like to be safe.
The reason why the fireball failed in less hits on the leg test is because of the thicker tubing, the other table’s legs were able to crunch and absorb more energy while the thicker tubing on the fireball shot most of the energy into the bolts and flange.
I LOVE CAST IRON. But mostly bc I'm used to using it in cooking applications. Wish it was more widespread still. It has lots of great qualities.
Fireball Tools, far superior to anything else. Because big corporations cut corners, while companies like Jason’s go around the block as many times as takes to get the best product. Great job brother!
im really surprised the tacks broke, but both tables have very impressive results. Im really happy that you do all this testing, gives me alot of confidence that when i buy your tools i can trust them
My late wife loved your work. She admired metalworkers and artists and she said you were both- "that man has an *eye*". The bandsaw made her want to ask you on a date.
I cannot believe Seigmund puts such cheese ball casters on their tables… what are they thinking?
I'm glad to see the bolts, and legs bend and shear before the table, even though they are better than most competitors that's good design!
Your like the PROJECT FARMS of welding. I love it!!!
I feel like there was maybe a small amount of bias in the tests, but the rigor of the testing procedure far outshadows any bias. That's what science is, making sure your biases don't affect the results, and he did a good job of that. Damn that thing is a beast
I love your fabrications man, great job! i'll have to get some of your tools when I can afford it. at work I use an old 40"x144" cast iron milling table for fabrication. it's at least a foot thick, but it has large hollow pockets between the 2" thick surface and the 6" thick bottom. nothing sticks and it's the flattest table in the shop! it has 4 t-slots running lengthwise, and 1" holes spaced about 6"x6". if you can ever find one man they are awesome.
Holy cow. Super impressed with the dragon wagon. If I was a welder I'd definitely save up for one
Sigmund prices are out of this world. When their very nice shiny catalog comes in the mail, I walk from the mailbox straight to the dumpster, and drop it in.
Funnily enough, I was just listening to the 24th episode of the Fitzall podcast with Jason as a guest. I was kinda lamenting over how he'd not released a long-form video on youtube for some time. And I get home and check my feed, and here we are. What a coincidence.
4:05 you will never beat cast iron. I have a Joinery shop in the uk and the brand new machinery here is poor, I would rather buy and restore and old machine than buy brand new.
Jason you sold me long ago your squares,tables.fixuring are unmatched thank you for such well thought out products ( and vises )
That little piece of angle supporting the inside corner of the leg mounting plate on the Sigmund is just embarrassing. They could've put a piece of 1/2" square bar stock there but sandwiched it in between the plate and the table top and it would've still been a bit cheesy but would've been drastically stronger. That looks like something someone would do if they were just working with whatever material they had hanging around, not like something that was the result of careful consideration or that should have made it into a production article.
Its pretty clear Fireball takes the cake !! and is much better value !!
I’m currently saving up for a fireball dragon wagon and I’m super impressed. I think your test was very fair. It’s nice to see a manufacturer do this fireball could’ve failed it didn’t but it could’ve and I feel you would’ve shown any failures. Good job.👍🏻
I am more interested in the flatness, and surface durability. My application will never require a car to be dropped on it.
I wish other companies did this to their products instead of running on a name and reputation that was built decades ago but since they don’t there’s no denying or arguing over the quality of your products and people know exactly what they’re getting when they buy Fireball Tools which is why the serious and real professionals buy Fireball Tools so thank you! I greatly appreciate the practical design, testing and effort put into your products, keep the standards high!
I've got to say that I am not a huge fan of testing your own products for a video, because it will always be really difficult to show that you are being as objective as possible. But i got to say that the leg test really hit the home run on being properly designed! the bolts just snapping off without damaging the table top? Just being able to swap a leg and get back to work? That is one awesome product.
Can't believe how much slop was in the competitor's table's leg.
Nice job dude, Its pretty easy to tell who sat down and tried to make a great fixture table and who tried to make something more profitable.
Love these test vids!! If I ever get a fixture table I'll def be buying a Dragon wagon!! Incredible attention to detail, well thought out!!
I'm loving the animations! Super video, too.
Your “forklift test”, although produced a useful result, was pointless to your reasoning. I have 2 forklifts at work, one weighs 12k lbs and the other weighs almost 17k lbs. The 3000lb load you put on these legs, although testable equally, didn’t prove they could withstand a forklift accidentally backing into the tables. Forklifts would snap each table at it’s weak points with ease, especially if it’s moving at a good rate of speed.
That said, it’s good your table’s week point is the replaceable components.
Love the fireball tool tables its a shame they came out after we had bought our siegmand table would of loved a fireball one (UK).
When i can afford to build my dream shop one day I will have your products in it they are icnredible and you do an amazing job been seeing your videos off and on for years
42:24 Wow! So we will see a set of beefy new Fireball bolts soon? Let‘s rise the bar. 😉Great result and one of the best videos of your channel. Love to seeing you calling for the hammer😎👍. Stay safe and healthy. o7 Ulf
I love my Fireball Dragon Wagon table!
Well Worth the money. No regrets at all. 🍻🥰👍🏽
Moral of the story, Siegmund need to up their game.
Worst case scenario; cramped workshop, forklift doing difficult manoeuvre & crashes into the fixture table. It would be far easier & cheaper to fix a leg than buy a whole new table. If an item is important, it's worth over engineering it.
i agree with you no single tool can be everything
even Fireball tools have there issues all we can hope for are tools that do what users need as everything has trade-offs
fyi when i say Fireball tools have there issues they have good points and have bad points that they where never designed for which is fine
I think the best part of this test really isn't how strong they are, but when something bad happens its about can you get it back in service or throw it away. I would buy your table all day if all I needed to do was order a new leg or bolts and get it back in service for a few hundred bucks instead of a few thousand bucks.
The test was really unfair because you knew that the Dragon Wagon would outperform the other table. It was interesting to see what happened with each test. In one case, new leg, in the other case, new table.
I cant afford any of these tables, but I really want a fireball table
Siegmund needs to improve to stay on top, thanks for the compare
@35:03 The Fireball Tool Dragon Wagon Leg didn't fail!!!! The bolt shanks failed! that's insane!
Can’t wait to own one of your tables one day
Once that leg was hit the 1st time on the first table the table was done the mount was compromised. The Fire ball was always repairable. In a pinch the top plate could be cut off a new one installed.
I love this channel. I don’t feel like a weirdo for the way my mind works when I watch how similar we think!
clear as day Fireball wins performance and price no brainer
The leg in the Fireball table is a masterful example of designing for failure.
My heart is bleeding when i see high quality fireball tools being destroy but that's The only way to proof how good they are
6000 kg of compression in the middle of the table, or 1000 kg of tension on the flange when used as a 90 degree angle block, is indeed a lot of weight. But I'm not stacking jersey barriers on a weld table, I'm welding on it - how much force do they typically see from cooling weld stress and resisted distortion? Most tables seem likely to see the most force in plane when the weldment is shrinking around some pins, so the vertical force (or lateral force with the wagon bolted through the flange and pulling from the top) isn't incredibly representative, but weird fixtures happen at shops across the globe every day!
How much of the angle changes are from deformation of the bolts that are anchoring them?
You design and build some awesome tools
excellent design of the table leg, the bolt broke instead of the leg it self so in the event an incident happen you just have to replace the bolts instead of the entire table
Based on material choice alone, cast iron will most likely be better. Just don't make the strain rate too fast or too high a stress and that table will be much better. Cast iron has much more ceramic phase than any steel, so it's strong but at the cost of ductility. I'd rather my table exhibit a higher elastic yield point, so cast iron sounds like a good material choice!
They need to put more money into R&D and less into bs marketing. It looks like they're both good tables for the money if one was $2k cheaper.🤔
Fireball don’t play. Yall build the best stuff on the market because you care most about the end user. I always recommend your stuff.
i love your beefy caster 26:35😉
If i was buying a welding table I would buy your table no questions asked
What do you think about installing a 3/8" or so square peice of hard rubber or compsite material between the leg flange and table base? Something to deflect the tensile force. We have some hard rubber mounts on our 12K. lb, concrete breaker.
Tu mesa es impresionante
For some guys price might be a big issue as well. I would LOVE a fireball table. It just can't really afford one at the moment.
Idk what was going on and I really don't care, I like your videos. The comment section here looks censored as you should be getting more A LOT more shit for tuning off the comments.
So I am guessing this will get censored as well. I don't really care though. really I don't
Since we get to make claims out of nowhere... I'm the best person at everything ever.
Well, I hope Jason doesn't up the price after this TOTAL outmatch . lol
The other guys need to drop the cost by 1/3 to sell their table though ... Maybe half . lol
You seem to forget, that there are NO laws against this kind of claim in the US. You can even get away with saying, it is better than other brands mentioned by name. That is illegal in Denmark.
Most likely, there is not a true standard for "strongest" table, and thus it is just a remarkable claim. A remarkable stunt as well.
Don't have to be very scientific to see which is better. Firsts glance shows that the legs and design is way better on the Dragon wagon. wish I had money to spend on something just because its cool and good quality.
Well there’s no doubt in my mind what my future welding table is going to be when I’m ready to purchase it , it’s Fireball Tool for me , not that it was ever a question lol I really dig the videos and tests Jason , awesome stuff , dare I say much better then Myth Busters hehe
Get these other companies to step their game up tbh
I knew that "Starrett" two foot square looked familiar. I have the same one and it's a BROWN AND SHARPE! 🤭
Check out 18 minutes and one second. 😂û
Jason, you are a good salesman. The thing is, a good quality cast iron table is going to beat steel. It's the nature of the materials. The question I have, to which I'd like an answer, is why doesn't the Fireball table have the grid markings?
I wanna see a slo-mo of those bolt heads popping off at the end, and have a thing in background to help determine how quickly they're moving. Wow!
"I'm going to be over there" ... Yeah, do you want to witness things going wrong or witness the aftermath? Take your pick, because there's guarantee you will be around to see both.
I have a 10T capacity Autoquip Scissor Lift table with a warped steel top. I want to replace the warped top with a cast iron welding table. Have you thought about designing a cast iron table with a three-point support (like a surface plate)? That would let me mount the table atop the lift without worrying about defects in the lift geometry.
I love how fair and equal you are with the testing. Most people couldn’t do that and would favor their own product.👍👍
Pop Noice
Not nice to see quality items being destroyed like this but I accept it makes the point.
Fire ball products seem to be the panicle of what’s available.
Trump ✊🏻 🇺🇸🇬🇧😉
why would people even buy that crappy table when they can get yours, even cheaper
What if the cast iron had shattered under that 6000Kg load? Think about your own safety and that of your crew!