Sharpening a K390 Spyderco Delica 4 and Testing My Stropping Progression
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ต.ค. 2021
- Final BESS Score: 115g with a rounded over apex. Meaning very well apexed but less than ideal bite.
Progression:
Venev 240F Diamond waterstone
Venev 400F Diamond waterstone
Venev 800F Diamond waterstone
1) Venev 1200F Diamond waterstone
2) 4um CBN on leather (angle match)
3) 1um Diamond on balsa (angle match)
4) 0.5um CBN on balsa (angle match)
5) 0.5um CBN on balsa (angle match, 3 passes per side)
6) 0.5um CBN on balsa (+1degree, 2 passes per side, not recommended)
BESS Scores:
1) 138g avg (burr remains)
2) 120g avg (burr reduced but likely still there)
3) 135g avg (foil burr drawn out)
4) 123g avg (reduced burr but likely still there)
5) 128G avg (burr root drawn out into foil burr)
6) 128g avg (no change)
![[UNCUT] ที่นี่ที่แรก ปู - หาญส์ พูดถึงมหากาพย์หนี้สิ้น I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 10 ก.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KDNA9DZ0p4U/mqdefault.jpg)
K390 will take an extremely keen edge. It's toughness is better than most steels at similar hrc's. Dude, I am really enjoying your videos. Keep up the great work.
Appreciate it man! K390 is a total stud! One of the best out there IMO. 15V may take the cake though...
Interesting as always. I have difficulties at times deciding about those last steps in the stropping. I am staying posted for definitive answers! You keep making me want to get a BESS tester, but I think even more I want some sort of microscope setup.
I’ve been using a 120x magnifier a lot recently and I can just start seeing stuff. Definitely a good tool especially if you could get a little more magnification.
I don’t think I’ll have a “definitive” answer for a while but how I finish edges is my main point of interest right now so hopefully I’ll get there!
@@EngineersPerspective701 I'm curious about using the method of the higher BESS score as an indicator of burr formation. How do you know for sure that there's not some other factor at play there giving the higher score such as degradation, reduction, flattening in some form of the apex thus leading to a higher score and possibly even coinciding with reduction of the burr?
@@turing2376 there almost certainly are other factors! So far I’m looking at in the context of what I’m doing. If the score increases after stropping then that’s pretty telling for example.
But I’ve been doing some work with edge leading finishes on the stone and it gives pretty high BESS scores (150-200) and not the smoothest apex but they seem to be very free of burr and last along time in use
@@EngineersPerspective701 it seems like if the score increased after stropping then it could just be that the stropping reduced the acuity of the apex width possibly even reducing burr as well or it could be that the burr was increased leading to the higher score or maybe some other explanation even. But, I guess what you are saying is that in any event it tells you that the stropping had a negative effect of some sort?
@@turing2376 my interpretation is that yes, it can lead to a negative effect because it generates a burr that folds over right away in use.
I’m not suggesting that people should stop stropping. Just that there may be more to the story than strop=best!
The BESS tester measures sharpness of push cuts, but K390 and Maxamet seem to be able to take very 'sticky' edges that excel when making a pull cut.
For sure. But what objective measurement exists for measuring this behavior? At least the BESS test is an objective measure.
@@ZPositive I'm not aware of any tool or method either... and, will probably be buying the BESS tester shortly.
@@dandildarious4849 yep, ol' Bessy's on my list too. It's flat out sad how excited I am that tools like the BESS exist. We sharpening geeks are a rare breed.
It measures apex width and cleanliness which does translate to good push cutting yes. But a low score doesn't indicate poor edge bite and I would suggest it's pretty important to get a low score on edges with bite to confirm there is no burr left over artificially making the bite.
As Anthony mentioned, there isn't an objective test for bite. Personally I like to BESS test, 3-finger test and cut paper towel. If an edge does well in all 3 I know I've got a great edge that is very fine with bite. Still subjective though!
Being a sharpening Geek is like a niche of a niche market. But dang do I love it!
You should give Jende Nanocloth a try for stropping. I’m able to get hair whittling sharp with Gunny Juice Poly Diamond Suspension. Great stuff.
What’s kept me away from the nano cloth is I’ve heard that it’s on the softer side and I generally lean towards harder substrates.
Any issues with rounding the apex? What’s your pressure? Thoughts?
@@EngineersPerspective701 I also like balsa or leather but for 1um and higher. Sub micron is when I switch to the nano cloth. I haven’t had any problems rounding the apex. Being a softer material it’s almost like has a spongy feeling. What I like about it most is you really feel the feedback when stropping even with light pressure. Because of the spongy feeling you can apply light or more pressure depending on how aggressive you want to strop. It’s hard to describe but I would say it has like a suction feeling when you’re using the nano cloth. When you first load it though it is really thirsty and takes in a lot the first time.
@@laokast appreciate the response! I’d really like to start using some lower grit emulsions and try different substrates other than wood or leather.
You maybe should have tested balsa vs leather with the same micron compound.
Balsa is slightly harder so it could create a burr easier.
And a test that would be super interesting is how many inches of stropping gives a good BESS result and how many are time inefficient only giving diminishing returns.
I have lots of experience with Balsa, bass and paint stirrer wood. I've had really good luck with the firmer substrates as they aggressively remove burr and tend not to round over my apex if I'm sloppy. However I do feel like it get a little cleaner and more refined edge with medium-hard leather. All anecdotal of course!
My k390 was so hard, it wouldn't strop the burr off. I'm talking micro burr. Japanese k390 is my favorite steel. It's so sticky.
At times I can get that tough micro burr that won’t come off but this K390 deburrs so well on the stones that it’s not usually a problem because it’s pretty much clean prior to stroping
Is it possible you just didn't spend enough time on the 4 micron to totally remove the burr? Just because the Bess score went up doesn't actually prove it was from creating a burr does it?
I've actually tested this a decent amount outside just this sharpening and even with 30 passes per side on 4um or 1um on 0.5um (tried them all, on mostly Cruwear and LC200N) it doesn't lower the score necessarily. It feels more refined for sure but the BESS tester suggests that it's just drawing out a foil burr. I added a link below to a video I never published with me doing this on Cruwear. It's a little bit of a mess because of unexpected results which is why I didn't put it out there.
th-cam.com/video/V_LiybOSx90/w-d-xo.html
I've also noticed though that on edges finished with edge-leading strokes I will get much higher BESS scores, 150-200g, but the up front edge retention increases notably. In these I can also see microchips in the edge at 120x magnification even using the 2-3um Venev or 3K chosera.
It is my current belief that it's probably best to either take the strops down super low, 0.1um diamond, or to do it minimally after REALLY deburring on the stones, maybe 1 or 2 passes per side on the strop. I do feel like I'm missing things still though so I'm just continuing to mess with things and observe!
@@EngineersPerspective701 second paragraph seems pretty in alignment with scienceofsharp posts
Up to really high grit, edge leading doesn't "fill" the entire bevel triangle and the apex thus have an higher angle than the honing angle + bunch of chips approximately the size of the abrasive grains.
So it should be expected that it would be less sharp and more durable.
But it forms really limited burr if any
Personally instead of jointing, I prefer to do some edge leading passes to eliminate the burr, then go back to trailing till its well apexed, but I don't know if it's really enough to get rid of the chips
Usually a microbevel is only on one side, but I wonder what would be the effect of going from say naniwa pro 3k and microbevel it on both sides with a glass 16k with edge leading strokes. Like 20 degrer inclusive bevel to 30-40 microbevel
I know wood working peoples do these crazy jumps thx to the relatively low surface a microbevel will require to polish
@@user-so6fu1ir3v good stuff here! Definitely on the second paragraph but I will say whew leading can develop a big burr. But pressure and low passes leads to clean apex as I’m sure you know, just clarifying for anyone who stumbles onto this!
As for following up with edge trailing on a stone. At this point I think my preference is to go to a strop just for the softer substrate and rolling abrasion. Lots of great sharpeners do it the other way though and it has a lot to do with pressure and maintaining the same angle.
Did you manage to get one of BBB stones?
Heck yeah, picked up a 400! I've been really looking to up my low grit game and that should be perfect. I'm interested to see what kind of edge and finish I get right off of it.
@@EngineersPerspective701 sweet can't wait to see how keen you can get those edges 😍
@@EngineersPerspective701 cruwere has been very interesting, when it gets dull it microchips and becomes a macro serrated blade. Was on 12k naniwa super stone
@@adanma17 That definitely is interesting. I'm a little surprised you've bene experiencing that with Cruwear. Maybe because of the burnt factory edge? I've seen this for sure on Maxamet
@@EngineersPerspective701 its not dull by any chance if you look at the apex from above it looks good, but once you see it from the sides you can see the micro serrations. It stays sharp enough to cut paper but not sharp enough to spit hair
This is exactly the test I would perform if I owned a BESS tester. Ironically, you're making it _less_ likely for me to buy one for myself. Buuuut I'm mostly kidding. Eventually I'll take that plunge. 🙂
Realistically if you don't buy one then I saved you money and it would only be fair to share at least 50% of the savings! I take cash or check 😁
Does it shave the hair on your arm? lol.
Just caught a couple hairs here and there 😂