Inside an airline cold-plasma ozone generator cold-plasma tube.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2020
- I just thought I'd drop in the very trendy cold-plasma reference in the title just so I can casually mention that there's nothing new about it. It's just the same old electrical corona discharge method of creating ozone that's been around for hundreds of years.
Certain companies selling ozone generators seem to be implying that it's a radical new and secret technology.
This unit wasn't quite what I was expecting inside. I did guess correctly, but it's actually a bit more specialist than I was expecting. I'm not sure what plastic the end caps are made of, but I would expect them to be the most likely component to degrade in the concentrated ozone.
The most exciting thing about this unit is the horrifically spiky sounding power supply. I was expecting a reasonably loud hiss, but not the sharp rasping 50/60Hz buzz that accompanied it.
There are much nice power supplies than this, but I get the feeling they've used this type because of its cheapness and simplicity. The radio hams won't be too thrilled about the electrical noise this thing probably generates.
There's something about it that hints at a very retro Oudin coil from the violet ray era. I'm going to have to try and depot the primary side from its secretive black resin.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![Fc ครับ ขอแนะนำให้รู้จักกับ "น้องเปียโน" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HQU6Q_IYTLo/mqdefault.jpg)
"If there's any health and safety inspectors watching, it's okay, I have beer" xD never change clive haha
Beer is munificent in what it brings.
a. It short circuits the "should I, shouldn't I" pins directly to the "worst happens, it goes pop, just do it" pin
b. If the worst happens, the ensuing pain is numbed
c. It makes comprehensive note taking during experimentation null and void, if you do take notes you can guarantee they will be missing crucial steps or be illegible after the fact. This furthers the scientific approach as next time you deal with something similar you have to start from scratch and are not carrying any pre-formed bias. There may be some residual memory along the lines of "I seem to recall I had an issue with the last one of these..... but not sure what... it's a while back... hey ho".
d. Elevated risk of instant death. Better than a slow death in a care home or geriatric ward at 90+ believing all your relatives are gerbils if you remember them at all that is, while drooling profusely. (Sorry Clive, I typed that, then I remembered your Mum :( ... I'm opting to leave it in as people need to face up to the grim reality of ageing and what it may bring).
I had more, but it all got deflated in my mind after that last one.
sigh... the hangover sucks if you survive your high voltage and beer shenanigans.
thank you brit we needed that🧗♀️🧗♀️🛡
Even better: he has Belgian beer 🍻
@@chillybrit2334 we did not need that but okay
Brilliant! A literal laugh out loud moment!
I used to work in a commercial laundry where we used something like this to inject ozone into the washing machines. The ones we used were all enclosed, but the design was very similar. It used a glass tube with a port on each end, and there was a stainless steel brush electrode stuffed down the center. It looked like a giant bottle brush. I had to take them apart and clean them with denatured alcohol every year or so to keep them working efficiently. They were fed from an oxygen concentrator, similar to the machine a patient would get supplemental oxygen with, but not medical grade. Instead of the metal tube it just used capacitance to air, but they were also fed from a 12-15KV supply. They made some seriously potent ozone, and there were numerous sensors that would shut them down if the concentration in the room got too high.
Did it have a scrubber to desiccate the oxygen?
That's how they disinfect the clothes...
@@PradeepKumar-ps4cs More like that's how they remove odours from the clothes.
The dry cleaning itself should do a good job at killing microbes just on its own.
This is the great thing about the internet, no matter how obscure the subject an expert will always appear.
Hey! I use ozone for commercial and hospital laundry too (Brazil)! Glad to know...I´ve got awsome results, I hope you do as well too. pedrosvivaz@gmail.com
corona discharge
previously: air ionization
2020: someone sneezing
I was about to comment the exact same thing
Oof.
The fact that you do most of your videos in one take is extremely impressive and one of the main reasons I sub to your channel. Thanks for not cutting out seemingly uninteresting bits.
I've always been a firm believer of a "safety beer".
thought it was called the "fortication" beer...
Or fortified safety bear. grrr.
I've always been a firm believer of "hold my beer and watch this".
Beer is good, it makes you feel like nothing can touch you. :-))
What will you give people to hold when you want to do something betterer.
We have presented to you an elaborate 20 minute pun around the word "corona" during CoViD'19 lockdown. Corona discharge to kill the coronavirus. A Corona beer, although undignified, would have been the perfect safety complement.
Why, with a spark gap like that one might be able to communicate clear to the Americas!
im in the usa and i heard it so yep :}
I hear that in my head in an old timely voice.
@@gbear1005 Fun fact! That old timey voice sounds old timey because it has the TransAtlantic Accent. It was specifically designed for use over radio for clarity, so it's a non-regional accent.
Problem is nobody would be able to stand listening to the damn thing for long!🤨
Oudin coil?
- Should we do that? Yes, we should. Yes, we absolutely should!
♥Clive!♥
I'm glad you are observing proper safety precautions. Its always important to keep a safety beer at hand.
The coloring on the screen at the end most likely was from the heat when closing the tube.
Yup.
I was just gonna say that
I suspected it too and it was confirmed when the other end looked the same
I've never been that comfortable around creepy buzzy high voltage stuff - but now I understand I need more beer.
Popping up out of the ocean between crashing waves will provide the sweetest air you've ever smelled. The "mistier" the better of course.
On the bright side.... you now have a really strange looking glass and metal condom art piece.
Steam punk, LOL
@@jdhtyler A different testing method was to wrap them on tubes like these, and then dip them in electrified water (automated of course). The carbon brush method seems to help there, as no drying is needed.
with a bite !
The dildo of death!
@@peehandshihtzu You missed the S in punk
Now I want an "It's okay, I have beer" t-shirt.
yes
That would be a bad idea when going to the shops; people would think you were giving away free beer. But it's a handy slogan for a T Shirt to wear for a lockdown TH-cam video.
I watched this while having my breakfast and choked on my coffee at that! A T-shirt would be great. It would also need the bigclive logo, but I think the beer should be something Scottish. Tennents?
Sadiq Mohamed Brewdog
'Warning. May contain Stella.'
you got my cat's attention removing the ends with the channel locks
Yaaay, Clive's here again!
Thank you for another video featuring your smooth and pleasant voice; I often know nothing about what you're describing, but I totally enjoy it all the way.
Oh, Clive 🙂 "Should we do that? Yes, we should!" You are amazing 👍
We have 4 Ozone machines in our home and we're going to get a UV filter for our furnace soon also. We run an AirBnB and just love Ozone for how fast and effective it is as sanitizing EVERYTHING. We purge via smart plugs after a guest leaves, and after our cleaners are done so everyone has a germ-free environment before they enter. It also controls pests, mold, bed bugs... you name it! Best purchase we've made for the home and not that expensive anymore!
Thank you for still using the word corona where it fits.
Always interesting, Clive. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
HSE "That looks unsafe."
Clive "Hold my beer!"👍🤣⚡⚡⚡
Wait, don't! I need that beer for safety reasons!
I had to do a minor in electronics for my audio engineering degree. You've helped me understand the basics!
Thanks mate!
Squeak, squeak, squeak. "Ohh, get out!"
"that feels kinda promising"
"oh there it goes"
i guess the heat colouring of the mesh happened when they molded the glass tube shut.
Expected to see it only on one side where the wire goes in because you could make the tube sealed on one side and put in the mesh afterwards. hm.
perhaps they put in the wire, close that side, and at the same time or afterwards pull the vacuum/gas on the other side while closing it.
PSU is basically a tiny spark gap Tesla coil, same technology as that in stun guns, usually two-stage, first one is a simple solid state oscillator with a small ferrite "flyback" step-up transformer or inductor as an autotransformer, which feeds the second spark gap stage, and the high voltage transformer module. What appears to be the "choke" might be actually the first stage transformer. Either that, or both stages are inside the white resin potted module.
Masterful use of the ol' saftey Stella!
Very entertaining and informative to watch. And you have a pleasant voice.
this was really interesting, i just finished working for a company that builds and installs cold plasma systems for industrial odor control and being able to see another device pulled apart was a fun comparison.
Well done Clive , Your inquisitive mind and your knowledge is just great,but just one bit of advice stay off the beer when working with high voltage. Thank you for sharing wealth of information, takes me back to my childhood day ,taking apart any electrical equipment to see what inside and trying to find how it works, I was not popular with my father.
Good to see someone being responsible and using appropriate safety equipment ;)
Happy New Year 2022 Clive!
BigClive you have always heart warming and educational deja-vus :)
"I'm going to have to try and depot the primary side from its secretive black resin"
I would definitely like to see that...in real-time :)
Done and coming soon.
Try hot water, I have liberated many a secret from inside the potting with copius amounts of boiling hot water and patience.
@@3Dparallax If you need a lot of patience best go to a hospital, they have loads.
This is by far the most intense and suspenseful video Clive has made! (Haven't finished yet...)
... '"and put in the vicinity and see what happens". [Me, "Yes"] .. "That's a terrible idea." Me, "Noooooo!" ] Such an emotional roller coaster, glad you went on. :-)
the Vice of Knowledge goes unemployed for another day.
Or the X-ray machine!
I get the idea that this is what gets Clive all giddy and makes his day
I found a similar device inside an old kitchen extractor hood I don't use anymore. It looks similar except that the metallic grid is outside of the tube and there is another electrode inside of the tube. The internal electrode is a wire at the center of the tube so it's quite far from the grid, but the tube seems to be filled with gas because it lights up like a plasma ball. That's a very intriguing device!
You gave me a good laugh at the H&S beer comment. Gives them a scapegoat to which they can pin the bad idea on rather than you yourself.
Safety beer, nearly as good as Furze's safety tie!
Hi Clive, nice video as always! I've "gone through" a few of these tubes of this design during my research into water ozonation. A couple of them have even melted on me! The internal glass-electrode connection is tungsten, which traditionally bonds well to glass but is always very poor on these units. This is spot-welded to the stainless mesh inside. When they are new they sound very spikey and the 10Kv PSU produces a good amount of ozone but they nearly always start to fail at the solder joint between the tungsten and the external connection. The sound will die down to a buzz and after a while it arcs-out at the connection (the closest point) and eventually overheats. I'm not sure if the internal tube is meant to be under vacuum or filled with gas, I never found out because they were always broken! Sometimes I could hear the RCD in my lab humming when the units were on, which is never a good sign!
That humming is down to the sharp voltage spikes.
The title reminds me of an ebay listing...
The bit at 9:22 for around 30 seconds with my eyes closed does sound as if Clive is up to no good.
Creak, creak, creak.... "I'm just going to have to be more persistent with it." "Oh get off!"
lol
That's what I heard!
Nevermind the H&S, better worry about the Communications Act 2003...
"I would pause at this point in time [but you're all watching me now...]"
I think the burn mark on the inside of the tube is from where they flash the "Getter" with a loop and a burst of RF , it burns up any remaining oxygen after evacuating the tube. As you mentioned the connecting wire is usually of an iron alloy which matches the thermal expansion characteristics of the glass. Thanks for sharing , most interesting.
"It's OK, I have beer!"
neat, I used to build gigantic ozone generators for water cleaning.. The idea was the same. It was a 1.5ft long x 3" diameter glass tube with foil stuck to the outside, covered in a large piece of capton tape, the center of the tube had a large stainless steel bar running through it and it was sealed at both ends with an air inlet/outlet at each side, Air passed through a oxygen concentrater and then was pushed through the tube and a lot of ozone came out the other end. Usually one of these machines had 5-15 tubes depending on the size and they basically ran off large neon sign transformers. It was beautiful to look at when it was running. Also I'm sure breathing in lots of ozone over the years even though I was always safe damaged my lungs a bit, I also lost most of my ability to smell ozone unless in super high concentrations.
Also when they started to arc across the tubes due to moisture or usually an oily buildup, it put on quite the spark show.
Love this video Clive....reminds me of Blue Peter......and here's one I prepared earlier with tinned Cu wire and "sticky tape"......and then I stepped through the door, that I knew would lead to adventure. 😁 Q music
I use these in marine fish tanks. Excellent at making the water crystal clear via an ozone reactor and great to see it taken apart. While not many studies are available, I’ve found ozone might break down proteins in the water, making it easier for bacteria to break down.
I believe that AC power on airliners is at a much higher frequency than the 50/60Hz used domestically, the idea being to let transformers and the like be smaller. Might this be why the ozone generator misbehaves when connected to the domestic mains?
400hz is the typical frequency for AC power on aircraft
I'm thinking the airline in the title refers to the air line that blows air through the tube. Not a commercial air carrier.
@@mwechtal I'm thinking that you're right. Similar products on eBay say to use an airflow between 150 - 300 cubic meters an hour (which is a hell of a lot! - most of that would likely be for cooling).
www.ebay.com/itm/Ozone-Generator-Ozone-Tube-7-5g-DIY-Water-Treatment-Air-Purifier-Home-Ozone-Tube/183790060116
I used to use a corona-discharge ozone generator last century to 'sterilise' recirculating water in a tropical fish breeding system. They work best with dry air (or even better with pure oxygen). I introduced the ozone-enriched air into a 0.5 m2 sealed PVC chamber that contained a large surface area media that some of the recirculated water then trickled over. That water was then dumped back into the system (before the debris filter so any unreacted ozone in the water reacted with trapped detritus rather than the fish's gills). The idea was to kill any microscopic pathogens in the water and this maintain the overall health of the fish.
I used a belt and braces approach. On another 'loop' I also had a 1.5m long 50mm diameter stainless steel UV steriliser that contained a quartz UV tube.
Good point. IIRC, it's 400 Hz.
Yeah that hunk of junk isn’t airline quality. !
LOVE the nice noise
Great video! Thanks
That was pretty cool👍
Clive, I think you should place the glass tube back in with a couple of spacers at one end, so we can see the discharge between the glass and metal tube.
There’s a delicate balance between a level of ozone that is safe and one that can do serious harm to living organisms. You see this in urban areas in the summer, where air quality alerts are issued when ozone levels get above a certain point. It would be difficult to maintain a consistently safe level of ozone in an enclosed space without monitoring equipment.
You're not supposed to use these in truly enclosed spaces - you either run them in ventilated areas or when the area is not inhabited.
Eating grilled cheese is tasty. The recipient of the grilled cheese experiences joy.
It’s okay! He has beer ;-)
That is just like the homemade ozone maker I made many years ago. I used plastic test tubes that are actually partially formed 2 liter bottles. I used brass wool shoved in the tube, and wrapped copper mess around the outside.
I remember the ozone from our CRT TV back in the 60's
I remember it from my TV and computer monitors all the way to the 2000s. I think my last CRT TV died in 2012 or so.
Laser printers produce a lot of ozone, though they are supposed to have filters that limit what actually gets into the surroundings.
@@Cadwaladr the funny part is they're coming back in some retro fashion for gaming if some TH-cam videos are to be believed. They still do make very brilliant colors that have only recently been matched by OLED and the like.
If you have a laser printer in your home, you have a source of ozone... There's a wire that the paper passes under called a corona wire, and it is literally a corona-discharge unit like this -- only not as powerful. It is supposed to impart a negative charge to the paper, so that the positively-charged toner particles will stick to the paper better when the paper passes between the drum and the fuser (where the toner is fused onto the paper with high heat). But one of the side-effects of this corona wire is the production of a bit of ozone every time you print something.
11:10- should we do that?
11:10- Yes we should!
This is why I love watching bigclive! 😀
Brilliant for a car ignition system, I'm sure it'd make a hell of a spark
Serendipitous outcome: learned and gained a bit of insight; retained functionality; opportunity for project of yet another PS, designed for specific constraints and requirements of the genny.
Thanks for showing this!
I have been interested in how CPTs are made for a long time. I wrapped the top of a large radio vacuum tube with aluminum foil and connected a 5,000 V neon sign X-former to it to see the corona.
I was a curious science kid then and later learned that the smell it made was Ozone. I put a rubber band near it while running it and was amazed how quickly the rubber band came apart turning into flakes and writhing like a dying snake. I read somewhere that there is a Hebrew word for Ozone that translates into "The Breath of God". Great video Clive?
Is it possible that the end seal on the glass tube is no good, hence the sparking and heated end of the mesh?
I was wondering that. Sparks ain't right.
The safety beer was a nice touch. I literally cried laughing.
Its common to put a catalyst inside, they heat it up and it reacts with all the impurities in the tube after you have vacuum sealed it.
that is a 'getter', but requires a heating element to operate. Common in most vacuum tubes.
Hey Clive, Love all you stuff mate! So if you were to design an Ozone Generator PSU, what would that look like. That is a vid I would be very interested to see! Cheers
It's okay... I do have beer! - ONLY a Scotsman would say something like that to a health & safety inspector! 🤣
Interestingly those power supplies are the type sold separate as "Neon power supply" I bought a couple for lighting up old Crookes Tubes.
Cool! well done clive! can a system to regulate the amount of ambient ozone be made ? and ozone detector giving a relative output used to turn on and off (bang bang) or pwm the generation of ozone? you know what i am thinking, set the level at the ideal safe and effective concentration. Also a corona discharge must also create ion's ? would they be +ve? i am guessing they would and so flooding with -ions would be a good idea?
This is remarkably similar to an ozone generator I used to work with in a NOx Chemiluminescent gas analyser. These generators ran off the mains with a similar size discharge lamp & metal jacket arrangement. They could generate a considerable volume of O3 capable of corroding pretty much anything should a leak occur. The analysers required a large activated carbon "trap" to remove the ozone before the gasses moved onto an oil vacuum pump. This carbon became incredibly dry & oxygen rich, regularly bursting into flames when the traps were opened to replace the carbon. I recall the traps were basically a pipe bomb. One did go off in an emissions rack at a power station, blowing the cabinet sides off & causing a bit of a mess. Similarly something called a "Noxgen" was used to check the efficiency of the chemiluminescent NOx analyser internal convertors (NOx = NO+NO2) This was basically just a variable frequency ozonizer in a box. Clever stuff. I recall walking into an office in Rolls Royce, Filton one visit to the overwhelming stink of ozone in the building. Apparently people had been complaining about headaches & stinging eyes for a few weeks..
Very nice! The glass is sealed because the internal parts are not resistent to ozone, the ozone flow is outside. It is cheaper to close the glass than use stainless stell inside the tube.
A friend of a buddy of mine, has a ozone generator connected up to the input(what gets pulled into the system from inside the house) of their heater/ac system of their home & yes, it does smell a little bleachy when the heater/ac is running the fan!
Reminds me a bit of the old "Violet Ray" rigs used by beauticians and naturopaths. Corona leakage in transmitters and HV sections of CRT TVs was often accompanied by the smell of ozone. Older laser printers generally have an "ozone filter' because loose ozone causes degradation in rubber and in higher concentrations has adverse health effects (sore throat, scratchy eyes, headache).
I work on/repair industrial corona discharge systems ..amongst a lot of other stuff...used in the printing industry to etch web at 100 meters per second...they produce tons of ozone as a by product .we have to use 4" ducting and high flow extract fans to get rid of it quick enough...imagine a corona discharge with a very visible (in broad daylight) discharge area of ~ 110cm2 on each press looks fantastic.
they use long ceramic 'electrodes' filled with metal balls...no special gas just normal air in the discharge area.
cheers!!!..i love your videos
9:46 the moment you start to think about damaging and possibly breaking the tube ;-)
11:55 I think its heated at the end because how they sealed it with a blowtorch
I have a Winix HEPA air purifier that has a high voltage generator hooked to a small brush looking thing, they call the feature “plasma wave” but I think is just what you describe, a trace level ozone generator.
Neighbours dogs are going nuts after them squeeky noises.
I used to work in blown film plastic factories and they used a device called a "Treatment" box. It was between 1 and 1½ metres wide (depending on the size of the bubble when it was converted to a lay flat form) and had multiple fingers 5mm wide that were adjusted to put an arc onto the plastic to make microscopic pits that would allow printers ink to settle in and set dry. Without the pits the ink would just peel off. The voltage across the fingers was 400V (no idea of the amps) but it used to produce and awful lot of ozone and the _arcing_ gave off a very nice purple colour. We got ozone poisoning once when the extractor fan on a 750mm wide treatment box decided it would take the night off and try and kill us. The result was worse than the worst hangover you can imagine and being a pisshead at the time I did have some hangover experience.
That was 40 years ago and I still don't like being near a laser printer when it is spitting out toner covered pages because of the smell of the ozone.
Yesssssssss, "It's ok, I do have beer."
Big Clive!
It is of course worth noting that elevated levels of ozone will make you feel unwell, and particularly high levels for a few hours can lead to heart attacks and the like. Ozone is one of the probable contributing factors to office sickness/sick building syndrome, since photocopiers and fax machines output it, and in a poorly ventilated office can lead to high ambient levels.
"Its okay I do have beer" that just made my year lol
There is a good teardown of a much older one of these in one of the mikeselectricstuff gas analyzer teardowns.
16:47
Dear Clive, I was so hoping you'd reassemble the thing and point the camera down the tube while in use.
The last time I heard anything like that power supply was a mechanical buzzer designed to supply a square wave (before the days of transistors being powerful enough) to charge and discharge a high tension coil making a very high voltage pulsed DC.
I had an earlier version. It had a ceramic insulator rather than a glass tube. Didn't last very long before the power supply failed. If you're dreaming about saving on chemical treatments for your spa/hot tub, I wouldn't recommend it. The ozone only partially dissolves into the water, which enables a build-up of ozone under the cover. The cover will bleach out, and the vinyl will break down in weeks.
This is the same instrument described in school text books as the "silent electrical discharge"- silent refers to no arcing. About 0.1% of oxygen in air gets converted into ozone but there are cooled tubes that can produce about 1% or so using air. Using oxygen and a cooled tube, you can get upto 3% (I quote from memory). Corona discharge produces light and decomposes ozone.
Big Clive has "Safety Beer", Colin Furze has "Safety Tie"... I can only manage a Safety Mug of Tea 🙁.
There does look like some fairly precision manufacturing involved.
Thanks for sharing.
The soundtrack for this video is classic peak Clive
The red wire inside the glass is the same type used in an incandescent light bulb which expands with the glass to keep a percent seal I think it’s like ferrite based wire or at least ferrite coating something along those lines
To borrow a Simpsons joke; "ARE YOU SURE IT'S ON? I CAN'T HEAR A THING!!!" :P
IT'S WHISPER QUIET!
Corona discharge? Lol. Good video
Dumet- dual metal, steel with a slightly oxidized copper plating. The glass bonds to the copper oxide. I love neon.
Thanks for disassembly!
I have ozone generator with tube like this that broke, some yellowy semi transparent oily sludge leaked out of the air outlet and stopped providing ozone.
Tube is much smaller (unless you have tiny hands) and I have no idea if it's fixable.
Transformer and air pump are working fine, but never got ozone generator to work again.
And it happened right before corona craze...
Should I try to pour hot water trough it? 99% cleaning alcohol?
Funny you mentioned the electrical noise, I used one of these and it cut out my enphase solar panel inverters from communicating. Thought the solar system was broken. Turned off the ozone generator and everything was back to normal !
As I do remember most aircraft systems utilize a 400Hz AC system for their on board electronics for aircraft use. Only if the provide AC in the bathrooms for electric shavers that will be at either 50 or 60 Hz.
This could be the reason for the arcing you hear, it needs 400Hz AC.
My electrostatic air cleaner used to create a bit of ozone. I just had to replace the transformer. I can't get the original so I used a neon tube 3KV transformer that goes through a voltage doubler. The output appears to be 9KV and 10KV! (I got a used 40KV probe for my Fluke meter on Ebay). Surprisingly even though the voltage appears to be higher I am not getting ozone with this transformer (which outputs more current as well). This unit is around 40 years old. The original was a 4ma 3KV transformer. I had to replace it with an 8ma 3KV neon transformer. That is no longer made so I ended up with a 32ma 3KV neon transformer. So far so good.
I used to work in a water bottling factory that used an ozone generator to disinfect the water in a holding tank before bottling.
They would allow the bottled water to rest for 2 weeks for the ozone to dissipate before sending it out for consumption.
Ozonated water is bad for your health.
Odd that there were sparks at the tip. I can't imagine it lasting very long if there are sparks. Usually Ozone production uses a silent (or near-silent like a hiss) electrical discharge. Sparks don't seem right!
Yes - Dumet wire - low coefficient of expansion so it makes a good deal to glass
Sounded like one of my old Ford buzz coils for the car.. ( The kind with points)