Thank you for this type of advertising @7:06, rather than copping to clickbait to increase views like so many channels have done. I really appreciate this video. You've released it at a very important time for me, many thanks for the content, experience, and knowledge shared!!
Before buying this sander I would use a rotary sander th-cam.com/users/postUgkx3Pc2vLXfcgM5oIpF1iYcIWyFhHUC-G6v and didn't see the need for a belt sander. Boy was I wrong. this belt sander does the job quickly and gives a professional finish to the wood work.
I recently built my own 2x72 its life changing. It would be cool to see you do a video on how to build one since you have fancier tools than I and a deeper knowledge of belt grinders
Thanks for the video , I just acquired a washing machine motor and I plan on making a belt sander , I was looking for what features are needed so that I don't forget and the belt sander you showcased was just the thing that helped me realized how to make it , it will have interchangable bit where it can have nothing , a large round wheel or a flat surface for different bevels.
Thanks Walter this video was just what I needed to see at the right time!!! I regretfully bought the 1" by 42" Kalamazoo. Read a few of their reviews which they must write themselves because this belt grinder is not for knife making. The platen is way wider than the belt meaning I can only grind flat chisel grinds or work above the platen to do convex sharpening and taking forever. Fortunately it was only a couple hundred bucks. I will make a much more informed purchase on my next belt grinder thanks to your video. I'm so grateful that such a master at your craft is willing to offer so much advice and help to all knife makers. Thanks again. Chip
All Power, to the Grinders... Get a stronger grinder, with less Watts... Get a silent grinder, with less Watts... Hey Sorrell... Thanks for your great vids... :) You say: Get the strongest motor, you can afford... You, and others, advise, that 1 horsepoweer, is about the weakest power, you should buy... In fact: "you better buy a 1,5 or 2 HP motor"... It seems all the most experienced knifemakers, agree on this... That advice, is generally for 2-poled motors, thus running near 3.000 r/min at 50 Hz... (near 3600 on 60 Hz) But, if you mainly use HALF speed, then, you could just as well, buy a motor, running 1.500 r/min, and that, would only need to have half the Horsepower, to give about the same momentum, so the belt do not stop, under heavy use... What you really need, is the strongest momentum (Nm)... A speeding belt is of no use, if it slows down, much, when you are actually grinding... So, note this, and evaluate, your need, before you buy... A 2 pole moter, turns once, for each cycle in the mains... 50 Hz, gives 3.000 r/min, minus the slip.. A 4 pole, turns once, each second cycle, running 1.500 minus slip... And has about twice, the momentum... A 6 pole, turns once, each third cycle, running 1.000 minus slip... And has three times, the momentum... A 8 pole, turns once, each fourth cycle, running 750 minus slip... And has FOUR TIMES the momentum... The momentum, has the unit Nm, and is also called the torque... It say how much "weight", is behind the movement... A wrench, with twice as long handle, has twice the momentum... So, you can not turn the nut faster, but STRONGER... The larger the diameter of a motor, the higher the momentum... You want a "fat" motor... You could say, a 2-pole motor is geared like a racingcar, for SPEED... While a 8-pole, is geared like a truck, for POWER-pull... So, when you do not wish the belt to slow down, when pressing hard, then the 8-pole, would be the first choise... But they only give just under 750 r/min... (still, at 50 Hz mains suply) The more poles, the more expencive too, but "not that much".... It is well worth it... And on the Sites for used things, the prices are nearly the same, no matter how many poles... I am only a "hobbyist", so I must grind at home... And I do not wish my neighbours to be bothered, by the noise... For that reason, I am upgrading my belt grinder... Now, building a "real one", for 2x72... :) I went for a used motor, and found a great deal, a Lenze motor, including a Lenze Inverter, to regulate the speed... The Frequency converter/voltage controller, not only regulate the speed, but, adds to the torque, at low speeds... The motor is only ½ HP, (370W), but with 4 poles, and with three phases, it is surprisingly silent, itself... But with the inverter, It runs even more silent... When running 3 r/min, you can NOT HEAR it... But also at full speed, (1330 r/min), you can still speak normally soft, with others... In fact my microoven, makes MUCH more noise... Wow... When trying that, you feel, "all, should have one"... But they are expencive... Unless you find a used one... Using this Inverter, you can also change running direction... And decide, how slow it should accellerete, and decellerate, and that makes the bearings last longer... And you set the max current, so the motor is protected... If the motor has a thermostat, the Inverter use that to stop the motor, when aproaching 150 centigrades... My head was nearly exploding, by going though all the possible settings... This version has the Vector regulation, which gives even extra added power, adding to the torque, and saving money on the bill, at the same time... You can code it to start at the same speed as you used last or to a preset speed... After the initial coding, it is simple... Your turn it on, and regulate the speed, or regulate the speed, and turn it on, as you please... This version, plugs into the normal mains, (1 phase, 230V), and creates a 3-phase output, for 3-phase motors... The motor, can both be used, connected as star or delta connection.... Note, that on 3-phase motors, running from a mains 3 phase supply, simply change position, of two of the three leads, to change direction... And wire the motor to be in STAR configuration, in the box on the motor... The lid, usually shows how... Running a motor on three phases, gives the most silent motor... You do not hear the 50 hz hum, like from the motors fed with 1 phase... It is turned into a 150 Hz "him" (not "hum), which is just much less audible, and gives much less vibration... So, if you HAVE 3 phase outlet, already, then, NEVER buy a 1 phase motor... Fed with 1 phase, the motor makes one "jerk", per pole set, per round... The 3-phase, gives three jerks, instead... not 50, but 150 per second, per pole set... (Or, not 60, but 180) In a 4-poled (2 pole-sets), that becomes 300 "jerks per second"... In a 6 poled (3 pole-sets), 450... In an 8 poled (4 pole-sets), 600 jerks per second... With just 300 jerk/second, that frequency is far from the oscillation frequency of a 8 kg motor... So, you can hardly feel it vibrate... Additionally... 1 phase, "gives a push, and wait, and gives a push, and wait" 3 phases, has three windings which each does that, but "turned 120 degrees", so one takes over, when the former waits... In fact together, they create a rather constant push... And that means, there is nearly no vibrations... The 150 or 300 or 450 or 600 Hz is really "weak" The slower the rotation, the lower the noise... But the 8-poled, give less noise than the 2-poled, at a given speed The lower the watts, the lower the noise... As each "jerk" is simply weaker... Using a three phase motor, gives the lowest noise... And the fewest vibrations... So, if you really need to run about 3.000 r/min, using 1 HP, that is, with a certain size of drive wheel... Using a 1.500 r/min motor, also 1 HP, fitted with twice as large drivewheel, give the same beltspeed, with less noise... And it has about the same momentum, with that double sized wheel... But, using same size drive wheel, then the 8-pole, gives a 4 times stronger momentum, than the 2-poled. If you has a 3.000 R/min motor, slowed down to 750 r/min with a simple Voltage regulator, (10 dollars on ebay) then it has only less than 1/4 of the momentum, of a 750 r/min motor having the same power, in watts... That means, having only 1/4 of the horsepowers, the 8-pole, give the same or stronger pull, at 750 r/min... Ofcause also noise and vibration in the other wheels, make less noise, the slower they run... So, if you do not really need "industrial grade speed", then you can save power, and noise, and make it all last longer, by using a 6 or 8 pole motor, at one third or one quarter, of the watts... Best regards Dan...
I have a 1x42 that I use constantly, and I'm actually about to start building a new one with pneumatic belt tensioning. And I'm a full time pro. That said 99% of steel grinding is done with the 2x72. I just find the narrower slack belt much better for handle shaping than the big grinder. I'll rough handles out on the 2x72, but finish on the 1x42 after doing it for enough years you'll get a light enough touch on the slack belt that you can go from the belt sander, to a light hand sand with 600 grit for wood, or straight to the buffer for synthetics. You really need something with positive and more importantly adjustable belt tension though. I've currently got a Kalamazoo, but pneumatic tension is far superior. If I wasn't building one of my design, I'd buy a burr king 1x42 without hesitation. For a 2x72, I like the Bader style.
Great video, Walter! I'll just like to ad that If you're like me and have more time than money, making one is an option. I made mine with some features I wanted that is not seen on many grinders and those that have them cost quite a bit more. I saved about a $1500 making mine, but my time might not be worth as much as yours. It's all an individual time/money calculation... ;) Thanks for making these, I enjoy your channel a lot and your dvds btw.
Very good information, you are right about the get what you can afford. 2-4k for a sander is a bit steep for alot of us. When you can spend under 100-300 with very little modification and have something that'll work fine and last for years. Especially if you're doing it as a hobby. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks, Walter! I am not much of a knife maker but I refurbish older knives. Been thinking about a belt grinder, and had no idea where to start. Your video gave me some great answers, and also brought up some of the questions I hadn’t even thought of asking.
I’m getting a Harbor Freight 1x30 grinder ...80 some bucs. That is probably perfect for beginners who just want to try it (I’m not just trying it). I know it won’t hold up and will be tedious but I will modify it cus I have other stuff to buy before a good grinder.It will give me something workable to play around with for a couple months.
in glad you made this video. when i build things i tend to over engineer things. iv been told its a bad thing...... but now ill stick to my guns. thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge.
Good info, so thumb up. I started with a HF 1x30, worked up to an older Craftsman 1x42, now looking at bigger. I mostly sharpen, and repair broken tips, etc.
In the UK They are called linishers. I use a oscillating bobbin sander to shape the handles and a wadkin pattern makers sander. And 24" disc sander by Wadkin. I use a onsrud router system to copy handle scales. To customise scales, from alternative materials. All machines are heavy cast iron.
Mr. Sorrells, so this may be a stupid question, but hey, never said I was smart. So thinking about getting into blacksmithing. It's something I have wanted to do since I was a kid. As part of my startup I am thinking about how not to go broke buying stuff lol. Saw a great video on a guy who bought an old used hydraulic log splitter and modified it to be a hammer press. Have designed my own forge (I am a mechanical designer so this is fun for me) Now I am looking at variations in grinding and thought, why are they all using 72" belt grinders, why can't a typical hand belt sander be used? Cheap, variable speed, all the sandpapers you could ever want, easily mounted in many configurations. The closest answer I could think of was allowing the paper cooling down time.
Let me add....if you buy direct from the manufacturer that's it's a reputable guy. I purchased a Pheer 2 years ago and Jose gives fantastic after the sale service for extra wheels and other general add ons you may want. The 454 is a beast with a great value point.
Hello Mr Sorrells! ive just begun my first knife, turning out good after my standards! Or well i think im just fiercly proud that ive started with it. I did get a grinder that turned out to be to weak! So this video gave me some more knowledge on what to look for. So thanks!
I would like to hear your thoughts on building the DIY machines with treadmill motors. I am just getting into knife making and this is the rout I went just because of the cost. Now advantage I got is I once did metal fabrication so design and welding ws cake. I know not everyone has the skills to make one that works well. Total I have 30 bucks in it and I made it with the arms that can be changed much like you Bader. The motors are brushed motors so they wont last for ever but they are a dime a dozen if you take the time and look. I posted on FB that I needed a used treadmill working or not and in with 3 days I had two. You can also replace the brushes. I was wondering if you ever got the chance to use one and how the power compared. Mine is a 2 3/4 hp rated at 7800 rpm. I placed the drive on a jack shaft and reduced the speed to about 3600 though pulley set up. It seems to be more than powerful enough but I cant compare as its all I know. I doubt it is a true 2.5 hp but with the jack shaft and pulley reduction it does ok. The variable speed is nice as well. Any how I love the video it gives lots of great points. I would like to thank you as if not for you I don't think I would be doing as well as I am for a newbie. Its nice to have someone lay out does and don'ts so I can skip that painful learning curve some what. Keep up the great video and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I did the build route last year and learned a lot of useful skills in the build. Unfortunately, building it myself I probably ended up spending twice the money I could have purchased one for. Of course I just had to learn to weld and buy a welder, and stand, and have made constant improvements and upgrades to it.
Actually have a good single speed motor, three-quarter horsepower, but it’s 1720 or maybe 3450 RPM probably either is too fast for this application, or maybe usable with speed direction which adds complexity of coarse
I really appreciate these videos you put out, they are a real library of knife making knowledge that I have been utilizing for years. I've really been stepping up my knife making the last year or two and a lot of these videos have both inspired and motivated me, thank you!
Thank you for the video. I recently bought a used grinder, and I don't know if it was manufactured or built. How can I possibly find out what brand it might be, and how to get attachments for it? Thanks.
I'm a beginner, and there is a belt sander or grinder on sale for 130$(regular price was 269.99) I'm going to buy it because I have nothing to grind with right now besides an angle grinder. I know its not ideal in terms of blade making but I can't afford to spend much more right now.
Hi , Thanks in advance for any replies . I'm looking to get a belt sander to polish knife bevels . what grit do most use for this ? I've got a Tormek and a slew of fixed angle sharpener but have been thinking of getting a Ken Onion to polish because I have found 6000 grit belts for it . I have not been able to find very fine grit for 1x30 or 2x72 . I've only been able to tree top hair 1 time and it took way too much time . Thanks again
What kind of FPM is the best? I should ask what's the FPM Range you need for a grinder? What HP should be a good grinder? I have my Uncles old hand-cranked forge. It's 3' X 5' and about 1 inch thick cast iron. This is the forge I learned on. I also have a few of the tools he made. He was from Norway. I have a small CNC router, and I am making some pistol grips with it. Bet I could make some great handles and hilts with it. I was an engineer/machinist/toolmaker, for over 42 years, forced to retire from Neuropathy. Thank for sharing your knowledge, it's 11:57PM here but your videos make me want to go out and fire it up, LOL. Smiles!
I built my own 2x72 belt grinder. I couldn't figure out why a new belt grinder should cost so much. I have used a myriad of motors on my grinder so far. The best is a zippy roughly 1hp harbor freight table saw motor with a gear box. It's really fast. I have a 1hp 3ph 4pole baldor motor with a VFD that works remarkably well with an 8 inch drive wheel, but I'm currently doing an experiment using a .75 hp 8 inch bench grinder motor. It doesn't have enough start up torque to get the belt in motion, although if you give the belt a boost, the motor will pick up speed and performs ok, for less than $100US motor. I want to get a 2 pole 3ph, 2hp motor and VFD for it eventually. The 1hp 3ph VFD has the most grunt, I can really smash the material into that belt and the motor just groans and takes it. But it's about $400 for my motor/VFD combo. The 2hp will be even more expensive, and 220v so less convenient.
bader is just a bad ass machinery,love this grinder though i dont have one,here in Tanzania we dont have these machiners,i build mine and no one knows what it is for,will buy a bader in the future when i have a budget for it
This was a good video on the options and features to consider, but a 2 x 72 bench grinder is one of the more easier builds you can do yourself for way-way less. You still would need to purchase some of the parts including the motor and grinding belts but the rest can be fabricated. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Walter Maybe you have an answer for my question last year I came across a belt that has spongy back What are they made for and are they better ?? Thanks
Thanks, Walter! I've been thinking about this for a while, because I only have a cheap-o 1x30 from HF and am DYING to get a real grinder... Now to make and sell some knives to pay for it. :P
Thanks for all your help Walter I've been watching you for a couple years now never made a comment but I figured I'd thank you since you have given me a lot of valuable information.
I love this channel. I have to laugh because I made my first knife after the angle grinder video. I quickly bought a Jet 2x42 and have made several knives since. I'm laughing because tonight I talked to Bret with Esteem grinders to buy a 2x72. What a great guy. Then here comes Walter on queue with my buyers guide. The universe has spoken
ROFL you stole the exact words from my mouth, I to just bought from Brett, he really is a really nice guy, I bought mine about 3 weeks ago and did a lot of google homework, Esteem grinders kept coming up a lot from some of the older fellas on the forums so I looked into them and pulled the trigger, this is was my first 2 x72 so I hoped I made the right choice, I have had zero problems this far, Brett makes his grinders suited to a Bader style and they are super well built and very heavy duty, his machine passes the nickel vibration test easily, the only thing I would have liked to have been a little different was his tool rest which is not a deal breaker by any means... Thanks for another good video Walter, I like your style and dry humor personally keep em coming!!
Walter I really enjoyed this video but I have a question. I am 71 yoa in a wheelchair and only have limited grip in my left hand, y can lay my right hand on one end of a file for balance and some control , I have a small a 1” belt sander and an 8” disc sander that my father had when I was a boy. Do you have any suggestions to help me in starting making knives. I just would like to make some for my brothers, nephews and nieces I don’t have any children. Thanks Randy Wallis
What type of Grinding Machine would you recommend for me? I'm planing to switch from stone to belt grinding machine. And I am sharpening curve knives for fighting roaster like in my picture profile. Hope to hear from you soon.
1st thank you for all your work. I enjoy videos and your knifes. what is specifications on your bader motor. and what is Max rpm on it. what is a maximum rpm motor you can use for 2x72 belts. thank you.
Like the video and the advices in it. What you think about homemade belt grinders. I'm a fan of "do what I can by myself", so I'm planing to make one soon. I would really appriciate few tips about this. Thank you in advance.
Water cooled is not an option on most 2x72 grinders Mr. Sorrels. I have a 1x42 and 8" disc that I can use water on because the motor is far enough away so it's not a problem. Not an option for most.
You forgot a 2”x42” that’s a pretty common grinder and some good knife makers use them , I started out with harbor freight so a 2x42 buck tool was like a Cadillac for me lol
Hi Walter. Very happy I watched this because I was thinking I needed a variable speed grinder. I have a 6”x48” wood sander singe speed and it works fine for my woodworking. I’m setting up a small knife workshop to compliment my wood workshop. Just wondering what speed your grinder run at? Thanks
As a Brit, I just want to say how much I envy the US for having access to far superior engineering equipment. What is available in the UK is shite. You get the option of spending £10 on Chineseium or £10,000 on Unobtainium. Those are our options.
Hi- I am looking for a solution to be able to make grooves on sword blades. Doing it manually by hand, always lands up in irregular grooves. So, what ca you suggest
Hi Walter, thanks for the video, can you or any of your subscribers let me know if 3"x79" belts will work better than the 2"x79" size for knives making? I can choose any of the sizes for my brand new belt grinder...
If is not too much ask, but, what is the model that you use Walter?, i need to buy one and is around the model thatd you have. Thanks for all your videos, are great!
I finally tried your sponsors belts, combat Abrasives. I got some of the ceramics. Gotta say, they live up to the hype. If people are looking for a good motor, Baldor and such are good, make sure it's a TEFC, totally enclosed fan cooled. It will work well in a hostile environment for a good long time.
64t120r Baldor, WEG, Leeson, Doerr, GE, Westinghouse, all quality motors. Baldor and Leeson are probably the easiest to find though. regardless of what sort you buy though, it has to be sealed and have a continuous duty. tefc is the most economical choice. For used motors, keep an eye out for washdown duty and explosion proof. You can't kill one of those no matter how hard you try
Gregory, thanks. Haven't tried them yet. I usually go to Pop's for my belts. They did have the best product for the price. I haven't looked in a while, but I'll be sure to look into Combat since my first experience with them is good.
Presently building one per D. Comau's plans. Being retired I am trying to build it as "cheap" as possible. I need the 2x72 (or 1x72) belt length for various sanding uses around my garage shop. My question is do you think a 1/2HP single phase would be "good enough", as I have one. I have been looking for greater HP motors (3/4, 1) but all are a little more that I want to spend. Also checking into 3 phase 220v then getting a VFD unit which also add$ up fast. Note: I realize this is a question that no one can answer correctly due to many variables, but if it is useless to use the 1/2hp motor I may as well get your opinion right up front. Thanks, Tom
Thank you, great video. I know you explained some about variable speed motors but is a VFD necessary? I'm just starting out as a hobby and I plan on building my own sander. Kinda confusing on most build videos I've watched. And how about the RPMs if no VFD is needed.
which belt grinder would you recommend starting out with? looking at a Gamut 1x46....dont want to waste my money, and find that most 2x72's are dickingly overpriced.
I have a nice 3hp Leeson motor but it's from a table saw so it's 3450 rpm. Can this be used for a 2x72 sander ment for knife making? And are there kits or frames available that are meant for attaching your own motor like on some scroll saws? Any input or opinions would be appreciated.
Matthias Wandel said something about the fact that his older homemade bandsaw uses a completely sealed motor. Wouldn't the be better and would be worth replacing to one like that?
“And that smaller grinder’s going to sit in the corner collecting dust” Or in my case, have a hinge installed so it flips under the bench and keeps a leather strop installed so I can both finish knives by flipping it up, or keep the kitchen knives sharp like it does most of the time.
Great job Walter. Do you (or anyone else in the comments) have any experience with the Radius Master Grinder? One unit, no "attachments", but it has a platen, slack and like 6 diameters of wheels all at the same time. I am curious if it is worth it to have all the attachments on the unit at once, as opposed to having to change them out. I am more of a hobbyist, so I am not making a ton of knifes and wearing all the parts super fast, which I hear is a possible problem if you are a full time knife maker.
are you in australia? many of the makers i've talked to who own a radius master regret the purchase. not a very versatile machine. check out the fire ant grinder.
Thank you for this type of advertising @7:06, rather than copping to clickbait to increase views like so many channels have done.
I really appreciate this video. You've released it at a very important time for me, many thanks for the content, experience, and knowledge shared!!
Before buying this sander I would use a rotary sander th-cam.com/users/postUgkx3Pc2vLXfcgM5oIpF1iYcIWyFhHUC-G6v and didn't see the need for a belt sander. Boy was I wrong. this belt sander does the job quickly and gives a professional finish to the wood work.
I recently built my own 2x72 its life changing. It would be cool to see you do a video on how to build one since you have fancier tools than I and a deeper knowledge of belt grinders
Thanks for the video , I just acquired a washing machine motor and I plan on making a belt sander , I was looking for what features are needed so that I don't forget and the belt sander you showcased was just the thing that helped me realized how to make it , it will have interchangable bit where it can have nothing , a large round wheel or a flat surface for different bevels.
Great video, and I appreciate the fact that you keep bringing in budget and means and not saying to go into more debt.
Thanks Walter this video was just what I needed to see at the right time!!! I regretfully bought the 1" by 42" Kalamazoo. Read a few of their reviews which they must write themselves because this belt grinder is not for knife making. The platen is way wider than the belt meaning I can only grind flat chisel grinds or work above the platen to do convex sharpening and taking forever. Fortunately it was only a couple hundred bucks. I will make a much more informed purchase on my next belt grinder thanks to your video. I'm so grateful that such a master at your craft is willing to offer so much advice and help to all knife makers. Thanks again. Chip
All Power, to the Grinders...
Get a stronger grinder, with less Watts...
Get a silent grinder, with less Watts...
Hey Sorrell... Thanks for your great vids... :)
You say: Get the strongest motor, you can afford...
You, and others, advise, that 1 horsepoweer, is about the weakest power, you should buy...
In fact: "you better buy a 1,5 or 2 HP motor"...
It seems all the most experienced knifemakers, agree on this...
That advice, is generally for 2-poled motors, thus running near 3.000 r/min at 50 Hz... (near 3600 on 60 Hz)
But, if you mainly use HALF speed, then, you could just as well, buy a motor, running 1.500 r/min,
and that, would only need to have half the Horsepower, to give about the same momentum,
so the belt do not stop, under heavy use...
What you really need, is the strongest momentum (Nm)...
A speeding belt is of no use, if it slows down, much, when you are actually grinding...
So, note this, and evaluate, your need, before you buy...
A 2 pole moter, turns once, for each cycle in the mains... 50 Hz, gives 3.000 r/min, minus the slip..
A 4 pole, turns once, each second cycle, running 1.500 minus slip... And has about twice, the momentum...
A 6 pole, turns once, each third cycle, running 1.000 minus slip... And has three times, the momentum...
A 8 pole, turns once, each fourth cycle, running 750 minus slip... And has FOUR TIMES the momentum...
The momentum, has the unit Nm, and is also called the torque... It say how much "weight", is behind the movement...
A wrench, with twice as long handle, has twice the momentum...
So, you can not turn the nut faster, but STRONGER...
The larger the diameter of a motor, the higher the momentum... You want a "fat" motor...
You could say, a 2-pole motor is geared like a racingcar, for SPEED...
While a 8-pole, is geared like a truck, for POWER-pull...
So, when you do not wish the belt to slow down, when pressing hard, then the 8-pole,
would be the first choise... But they only give just under 750 r/min... (still, at 50 Hz mains suply)
The more poles, the more expencive too, but "not that much".... It is well worth it...
And on the Sites for used things, the prices are nearly the same, no matter how many poles...
I am only a "hobbyist", so I must grind at home... And I do not wish my neighbours to be bothered, by the noise...
For that reason, I am upgrading my belt grinder... Now, building a "real one", for 2x72... :)
I went for a used motor, and found a great deal, a Lenze motor, including a Lenze Inverter, to regulate the speed...
The Frequency converter/voltage controller, not only regulate the speed, but, adds to the torque, at low speeds...
The motor is only ½ HP, (370W), but with 4 poles, and with three phases, it is surprisingly silent, itself...
But with the inverter, It runs even more silent... When running 3 r/min, you can NOT HEAR it...
But also at full speed, (1330 r/min), you can still speak normally soft, with others...
In fact my microoven, makes MUCH more noise... Wow...
When trying that, you feel, "all, should have one"... But they are expencive... Unless you find a used one...
Using this Inverter, you can also change running direction...
And decide, how slow it should accellerete, and decellerate, and that makes the bearings last longer...
And you set the max current, so the motor is protected... If the motor has a thermostat, the Inverter use that to stop the motor, when aproaching 150 centigrades... My head was nearly exploding, by going though all the possible settings...
This version has the Vector regulation, which gives even extra added power, adding to the torque, and saving money on the bill, at the same time... You can code it to start at the same speed as you used last or to a preset speed... After the initial coding, it is simple... Your turn it on, and regulate the speed, or regulate the speed, and turn it on, as you please...
This version, plugs into the normal mains, (1 phase, 230V), and creates a 3-phase output, for 3-phase motors...
The motor, can both be used, connected as star or delta connection....
Note, that on 3-phase motors, running from a mains 3 phase supply, simply change position, of two of the three leads, to change direction... And wire the motor to be in STAR configuration, in the box on the motor... The lid, usually shows how...
Running a motor on three phases, gives the most silent motor...
You do not hear the 50 hz hum, like from the motors fed with 1 phase...
It is turned into a 150 Hz "him" (not "hum), which is just much less audible, and gives much less vibration...
So, if you HAVE 3 phase outlet, already, then, NEVER buy a 1 phase motor...
Fed with 1 phase, the motor makes one "jerk", per pole set, per round...
The 3-phase, gives three jerks, instead... not 50, but 150 per second, per pole set... (Or, not 60, but 180)
In a 4-poled (2 pole-sets), that becomes 300 "jerks per second"...
In a 6 poled (3 pole-sets), 450...
In an 8 poled (4 pole-sets), 600 jerks per second...
With just 300 jerk/second, that frequency is far from the oscillation frequency of a 8 kg motor...
So, you can hardly feel it vibrate...
Additionally...
1 phase, "gives a push, and wait, and gives a push, and wait"
3 phases, has three windings which each does that, but "turned 120 degrees", so one takes over, when the former waits...
In fact together, they create a rather constant push...
And that means, there is nearly no vibrations... The 150 or 300 or 450 or 600 Hz is really "weak"
The slower the rotation, the lower the noise... But the 8-poled, give less noise than the 2-poled, at a given speed
The lower the watts, the lower the noise... As each "jerk" is simply weaker...
Using a three phase motor, gives the lowest noise... And the fewest vibrations...
So, if you really need to run about 3.000 r/min, using 1 HP, that is, with a certain size of drive wheel...
Using a 1.500 r/min motor, also 1 HP, fitted with twice as large drivewheel, give the same beltspeed, with less noise...
And it has about the same momentum, with that double sized wheel...
But, using same size drive wheel, then the 8-pole, gives a 4 times stronger momentum, than the 2-poled.
If you has a 3.000 R/min motor, slowed down to 750 r/min with a simple Voltage regulator, (10 dollars on ebay)
then it has only less than 1/4 of the momentum, of a 750 r/min motor having the same power, in watts...
That means, having only 1/4 of the horsepowers, the 8-pole, give the same or stronger pull, at 750 r/min...
Ofcause also noise and vibration in the other wheels, make less noise, the slower they run...
So, if you do not really need "industrial grade speed", then you can save power, and noise,
and make it all last longer, by using a 6 or 8 pole motor, at one third or one quarter, of the watts...
Best regards Dan...
OMG! Mommy make the bad man stop!!
When did you find the time to write this!
Excellent input
I have a 1x42 that I use constantly, and I'm actually about to start building a new one with pneumatic belt tensioning. And I'm a full time pro.
That said 99% of steel grinding is done with the 2x72. I just find the narrower slack belt much better for handle shaping than the big grinder. I'll rough handles out on the 2x72, but finish on the 1x42
after doing it for enough years you'll get a light enough touch on the slack belt that you can go from the belt sander, to a light hand sand with 600 grit for wood, or straight to the buffer for synthetics.
You really need something with positive and more importantly adjustable belt tension though. I've currently got a Kalamazoo, but pneumatic tension is far superior.
If I wasn't building one of my design, I'd buy a burr king 1x42 without hesitation.
For a 2x72, I like the Bader style.
Great video, Walter! I'll just like to ad that If you're like me and have more time than money, making one is an option. I made mine with some features I wanted that is not seen on many grinders and those that have them cost quite a bit more. I saved about a $1500 making mine, but my time might not be worth as much as yours. It's all an individual time/money calculation... ;)
Thanks for making these, I enjoy your channel a lot and your dvds btw.
"That's 2 inches by 72 inches, for those of you in metric world..." Yeap, this explains a lot.
Or more common, 50x2000
Let me clear it up for you. 72 inches is 6 feet and 2 inches is 1/6 foot. 👍
@@Snugglez187 how many hands is that?
@@henrylombard1965 0.5 x 18 hands. 😁
@@henrylombard1965 18 hands 👍
Very good information, you are right about the get what you can afford. 2-4k for a sander is a bit steep for alot of us. When you can spend under 100-300 with very little modification and have something that'll work fine and last for years. Especially if you're doing it as a hobby. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks Walter! I feel like I have earned a bachelor's degree in knife-making simply by watching your extremely informative vids!
Thanks, Walter! I am not much of a knife maker but I refurbish older knives. Been thinking about a belt grinder, and had no idea where to start. Your video gave me some great answers, and also brought up some of the questions I hadn’t even thought of asking.
I’m getting a Harbor Freight 1x30 grinder ...80 some bucs. That is probably perfect for beginners who just want to try it (I’m not just trying it). I know it won’t hold up and will be tedious but I will modify it cus I have other stuff to buy before a good grinder.It will give me something workable to play around with for a couple months.
Searching for first belt grinder to explore knife making, these are great tips and were perfect to help me guage my expectations vs the price!!
in glad you made this video. when i build things i tend to over engineer things. iv been told its a bad thing...... but now ill stick to my guns.
thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge.
i was gone to say exactly what you just did. very good video. Thanks walter
Good info, so thumb up. I started with a HF 1x30, worked up to an older Craftsman 1x42, now looking at bigger. I mostly sharpen, and repair broken tips, etc.
You are the 007 of the knife making community (in more than one way)
In the UK They are called linishers. I use a oscillating bobbin sander to shape the handles and a wadkin pattern makers sander. And 24" disc sander by Wadkin. I use a onsrud router system to copy handle scales. To customise scales, from alternative materials. All machines are heavy cast iron.
I think he is the best knife guy on the internet. Thanks
Thanks, man - appreciate that!
Hi you are the real champion of blade on the fire S3 E11 in my heart. You got the most difficult material and the best production.
Lothian blade on fire. best translation error ever
"... Best ..." not "... best..."
This was exactly the type of guide I was looking for. Excellent, Walter. I like your style. Thanks.
I recently saw you on a knife making show on TV and I thought you did an awesome job. Great video.
which show was it??
This video couldn't have come at a better time.......Thanks Walter & Thumbs Up
Mr. Sorrells, so this may be a stupid question, but hey, never said I was smart. So thinking about getting into blacksmithing. It's something I have wanted to do since I was a kid. As part of my startup I am thinking about how not to go broke buying stuff lol. Saw a great video on a guy who bought an old used hydraulic log splitter and modified it to be a hammer press. Have designed my own forge (I am a mechanical designer so this is fun for me) Now I am looking at variations in grinding and thought, why are they all using 72" belt grinders, why can't a typical hand belt sander be used? Cheap, variable speed, all the sandpapers you could ever want, easily mounted in many configurations. The closest answer I could think of was allowing the paper cooling down time.
Let me add....if you buy direct from the manufacturer that's it's a reputable guy. I purchased a Pheer 2 years ago and Jose gives fantastic after the sale service for extra wheels and other general add ons you may want. The 454 is a beast with a great value point.
Thank you for being thorough and explaining everything for my newbie brain! Great video
Hello Mr Sorrells! ive just begun my first knife, turning out good after my standards! Or well i think im just fiercly proud that ive started with it. I did get a grinder that turned out to be to weak! So this video gave me some more knowledge on what to look for.
So thanks!
I would like to hear your thoughts on building the DIY machines with treadmill motors. I am just getting into knife making and this is the rout I went just because of the cost. Now advantage I got is I once did metal fabrication so design and welding ws cake. I know not everyone has the skills to make one that works well. Total I have 30 bucks in it and I made it with the arms that can be changed much like you Bader. The motors are brushed motors so they wont last for ever but they are a dime a dozen if you take the time and look. I posted on FB that I needed a used treadmill working or not and in with 3 days I had two. You can also replace the brushes. I was wondering if you ever got the chance to use one and how the power compared. Mine is a 2 3/4 hp rated at 7800 rpm. I placed the drive on a jack shaft and reduced the speed to about 3600 though pulley set up. It seems to be more than powerful enough but I cant compare as its all I know. I doubt it is a true 2.5 hp but with the jack shaft and pulley reduction it does ok. The variable speed is nice as well. Any how I love the video it gives lots of great points. I would like to thank you as if not for you I don't think I would be doing as well as I am for a newbie. Its nice to have someone lay out does and don'ts so I can skip that painful learning curve some what. Keep up the great video and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Just in time. Getting ready to buy or build one. Thanks
i'm goin to make one this summer, here in Spain this kind of grinders are very rare and expensive
Nicolas Mora I'll video the build and get back with you.
I did the build route last year and learned a lot of useful skills in the build. Unfortunately, building it myself I probably ended up spending twice the money I could have purchased one for. Of course I just had to learn to weld and buy a welder, and stand, and have made constant improvements and upgrades to it.
I built a pretty good 72 x 2 in one days time... well worth!
Actually have a good single speed motor, three-quarter horsepower, but it’s 1720 or maybe 3450 RPM probably either is too fast for this application, or maybe usable with speed direction which adds complexity of coarse
I really appreciate these videos you put out, they are a real library of knife making knowledge that I have been utilizing for years. I've really been stepping up my knife making the last year or two and a lot of these videos have both inspired and motivated me, thank you!
That was the classiest commercial plug in i've ever seen. Will definitely check'em out
Thank you for the video. I recently bought a used grinder, and I don't know if it was manufactured or built. How can I possibly find out what brand it might be, and how to get attachments for it? Thanks.
I'm a beginner, and there is a belt sander or grinder on sale for 130$(regular price was 269.99) I'm going to buy it because I have nothing to grind with right now besides an angle grinder. I know its not ideal in terms of blade making but I can't afford to spend much more right now.
Hi , Thanks in advance for any replies . I'm looking to get a belt sander to polish knife bevels . what grit do most use for this ? I've got a Tormek and a slew of fixed angle sharpener but have been thinking of getting a Ken Onion to polish because I have found 6000 grit belts for it . I have not been able to find very fine grit for 1x30 or 2x72 . I've only been able to tree top hair 1 time and it took way too much time . Thanks again
I've been using the cheapy Harbor Freight 1x30 for ages, works good but I'd love a Bader lol
same here, check out Ameribrade!
thats what got.
2hp vfd
Horror Freight sander here as well.... It sucks changing out belts :(
I took the guards off, helped marginally. But yeah, it is a pain.
I smell a Canuck! :P
I have to admit I learn the phrase from watching AVE.
However I'm in Texas not in Canada
I will be getting my first belt grinder a 2x72 grinder from a maker in county mayo Ireland 🇮🇪
What kind of FPM is the best? I should ask what's the FPM Range you need for a grinder?
What HP should be a good grinder?
I have my Uncles old hand-cranked forge. It's 3' X 5' and about 1 inch thick cast iron. This is the forge I learned on. I also have a few of the tools he made. He was from Norway.
I have a small CNC router, and I am making some pistol grips with it. Bet I could make some great handles and hilts with it.
I was an engineer/machinist/toolmaker, for over 42 years, forced to retire from Neuropathy.
Thank for sharing your knowledge, it's 11:57PM here but your videos make me want to go out and fire it up, LOL.
Smiles!
I built my own 2x72 belt grinder. I couldn't figure out why a new belt grinder should cost so much. I have used a myriad of motors on my grinder so far. The best is a zippy roughly 1hp harbor freight table saw motor with a gear box. It's really fast. I have a 1hp 3ph 4pole baldor motor with a VFD that works remarkably well with an 8 inch drive wheel, but I'm currently doing an experiment using a .75 hp 8 inch bench grinder motor. It doesn't have enough start up torque to get the belt in motion, although if you give the belt a boost, the motor will pick up speed and performs ok, for less than $100US motor. I want to get a 2 pole 3ph, 2hp motor and VFD for it eventually. The 1hp 3ph VFD has the most grunt, I can really smash the material into that belt and the motor just groans and takes it. But it's about $400 for my motor/VFD combo. The 2hp will be even more expensive, and 220v so less convenient.
?
bader is just a bad ass machinery,love this grinder though i dont have one,here in Tanzania we dont have these machiners,i build mine and no one knows what it is for,will buy a bader in the future when i have a budget for it
you have an amazing voice sir.
I think that it is a grinding medium if it can be redressed to a fresh surface, and a sander if wear leads to replacement.
Any recommendation for a non VFD controlled machine single speed machine? 1700 rpm or 3600 rpm?
This was a good video on the options and features to consider, but a 2 x 72 bench grinder is one of the more easier builds you can do yourself for way-way less. You still would need to purchase some of the parts including the motor and grinding belts but the rest can be fabricated. Thanks for sharing!
Great video great points you're always the best knife teachin person on TH-cam
Thanks Walter
Maybe you have an answer for my question
last year I came across a belt that has spongy back
What are they made for and are they better ??
Thanks
Thanks, Walter! I've been thinking about this for a while, because I only have a cheap-o 1x30 from HF and am DYING to get a real grinder... Now to make and sell some knives to pay for it. :P
Thanks for all your help Walter I've been watching you for a couple years now never made a comment but I figured I'd thank you since you have given me a lot of valuable information.
dude, thank you so much for these videos.
much thanks. a ton of information that was perfect for what I needed.
A very well done overview. Thanks so much for doing this.
Great video! Also, you have a very Nick Offerman style cadence to your speech. Entertaining.
I love this channel. I have to laugh because I made my first knife after the angle grinder video. I quickly bought a Jet 2x42 and have made several knives since. I'm laughing because tonight I talked to Bret with Esteem grinders to buy a 2x72. What a great guy. Then here comes Walter on queue with my buyers guide. The universe has spoken
ROFL you stole the exact words from my mouth, I to just bought from Brett, he really is a really nice guy, I bought mine about 3 weeks ago and did a lot of google homework, Esteem grinders kept coming up a lot from some of the older fellas on the forums so I looked into them and pulled the trigger, this is was my first 2 x72 so I hoped I made the right choice, I have had zero problems this far, Brett makes his grinders suited to a Bader style and they are super well built and very heavy duty, his machine passes the nickel vibration test easily, the only thing I would have liked to have been a little different was his tool rest which is not a deal breaker by any means... Thanks for another good video Walter, I like your style and dry humor personally keep em coming!!
how many kw is your motor and how many revolutions per minute
Id love to see a similar video about your press. That seems like a great way to not buy a power hammer.
From one Walter to another... your videos are awesome!!!
Walter I really enjoyed this video but I have a question. I am 71 yoa in a wheelchair and only have limited grip in my left hand, y can lay my right hand on one end of a file for balance and some control , I have a small a 1” belt sander and an 8” disc sander that my father had when I was a boy. Do you have any suggestions to help me in starting making knives. I just would like to make some for my brothers, nephews and nieces I don’t have any children.
Thanks
Randy Wallis
What type of Grinding Machine would you recommend for me?
I'm planing to switch from stone to belt grinding machine.
And I am sharpening curve knives for fighting roaster like in my picture profile.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Great video, I am trying to design a universal grinder and this info helps a ton!
1st thank you for all your work. I enjoy videos and your knifes. what is specifications on your bader motor. and what is Max rpm on it. what is a maximum rpm motor you can use for 2x72 belts. thank you.
Great video and info! Wish I had seen it when I was just starting out lol
i liked after the intro. as usual, very generous of you. all the best.
"Show me a knife maker with a clean belt grinder and..."
Simple Little Life
The Weird Side he has a slight obsession with cleaning though
That's true
Yeah, he is kind of the Phil Hartman of knife making.
Like the video and the advices in it. What you think about homemade belt grinders. I'm a fan of "do what I can by myself", so I'm planing to make one soon. I would really appriciate few tips about this. Thank you in advance.
Would you talk about the mask you have chosen to use? There are lots of options out there.
Mate, very informative to someone like me just starting out. Thank you.
Water cooled is not an option on most 2x72 grinders Mr. Sorrels. I have a 1x42 and 8" disc that I can use water on because the motor is far enough away so it's not a problem. Not an option for most.
You forgot a 2”x42” that’s a pretty common grinder and some good knife makers use them , I started out with harbor freight so a 2x42 buck tool was like a Cadillac for me lol
Hi Walter. Very happy I watched this because I was thinking I needed a variable speed grinder. I have a 6”x48” wood sander singe speed and it works fine for my woodworking. I’m setting up a small knife workshop to compliment my wood workshop. Just wondering what speed your grinder run at? Thanks
As a Brit, I just want to say how much I envy the US for having access to far superior engineering equipment. What is available in the UK is shite. You get the option of spending £10 on Chineseium or £10,000 on Unobtainium. Those are our options.
This is a great guide. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
And I have made quite a lot of knives with it and it is still like it was on the first day
I have 2g saved up to get into knife making. What tools would you suggest for a beginner?
Thank you for all your videos! They really come in handy
Great info sir, very valuable insight. Many thanks for your time and effort.
Hi- I am looking for a solution to be able to make grooves on sword blades. Doing it manually by hand, always lands up in irregular grooves. So, what ca you suggest
Hi Walter, thanks for the video, can you or any of your subscribers let me know if 3"x79" belts will work better than the 2"x79" size for knives making? I can choose any of the sizes for my brand new belt grinder...
Thanks for this video. It REALLY helped me make a better choice.
If is not too much ask, but, what is the model that you use Walter?, i need to buy one and is around the model thatd you have. Thanks for all your videos, are great!
I finally tried your sponsors belts, combat Abrasives. I got some of the ceramics. Gotta say, they live up to the hype.
If people are looking for a good motor, Baldor and such are good, make sure it's a TEFC, totally enclosed fan cooled. It will work well in a hostile environment for a good long time.
64t120r I like their ceramics and J flex belts as well
64t120r tefc is good, my main grinder has one. My secondary grinder has an explosion proof motor which is vastly overkill, but will never die.
64t120r Baldor, WEG, Leeson, Doerr, GE, Westinghouse, all quality motors. Baldor and Leeson are probably the easiest to find though.
regardless of what sort you buy though, it has to be sealed and have a continuous duty. tefc is the most economical choice. For used motors, keep an eye out for washdown duty and explosion proof. You can't kill one of those no matter how hard you try
Gregory, thanks. Haven't tried them yet. I usually go to Pop's for my belts. They did have the best product for the price. I haven't looked in a while, but I'll be sure to look into Combat since my first experience with them is good.
I made my grinder and I'm usually the king of overkill, but I'll gladly hand the crown to you for the explosion proof motor. Hahaha.
Hello, could you help me understand the difference between contact wheel with flat rubber and contact wheel with rubber interuppted?
You can also make one from an old treadmill. That's what I did and it works great.
How'd you do that?
Yaa how'd you do that
Repeat, pics/ video or it didn't happen.
I just saw the video on your channel, I take back my comment. Watching it now.
Presently building one per D. Comau's plans. Being retired I am trying to build it as "cheap" as possible. I need the 2x72 (or 1x72) belt length for various sanding uses around my garage shop. My question is do you think a 1/2HP single phase would be "good enough", as I have one. I have been looking for greater HP motors (3/4, 1) but all are a little more that I want to spend. Also checking into 3 phase 220v then getting a VFD unit which also add$ up fast.
Note: I realize this is a question that no one can answer correctly due to many variables, but if it is useless to use the 1/2hp motor I may as well get your opinion right up front. Thanks, Tom
I'm thinking the 1" wide belt might make it better for a 1/2 horse motor... but I don't know for sure.
Thank you, great video. I know you explained some about variable speed motors but is a VFD necessary? I'm just starting out as a hobby and I plan on building my own sander. Kinda confusing on most build videos I've watched. And how about the RPMs if no VFD is needed.
Very good, well thought out video guide! Thank you!
What name are you saying?
Mader?
Madder?
Mater?
which belt grinder would you recommend starting out with? looking at a Gamut 1x46....dont want to waste my money, and find that most 2x72's are dickingly overpriced.
I have a nice 3hp Leeson motor but it's from a table saw so it's 3450 rpm. Can this be used for a 2x72 sander ment for knife making? And are there kits or frames available that are meant for attaching your own motor like on some scroll saws? Any input or opinions would be appreciated.
for what it's worth I never regretted buying my pheer, great for the price!
Good video thanks
Thanks for this video, I'm going to be the most badass knife maker you never heard of!
This was eksacktly the video I needed. I'm going to buy a new one...
Is that a Precision Tactical shirt?
Wish I would've seen this before I picked up a 4" grinder. Didn't take long to figure out it wouldn't work!
Matthias Wandel said something about the fact that his older homemade bandsaw uses a completely sealed motor. Wouldn't the be better and would be worth replacing to one like that?
Maybe if your motor goes out but you don't fix whats not broke.
That's what I meant :)
Thanks great video lots of real good information. 👍👍👍
“And that smaller grinder’s going to sit in the corner collecting dust”
Or in my case, have a hinge installed so it flips under the bench and keeps a leather strop installed so I can both finish knives by flipping it up, or keep the kitchen knives sharp like it does most of the time.
I just looked up 2x72 belt grinders on Amazon. I think I am going to stick to hand filing for a while :/
Great job Walter. Do you (or anyone else in the comments) have any experience with the Radius Master Grinder? One unit, no "attachments", but it has a platen, slack and like 6 diameters of wheels all at the same time.
I am curious if it is worth it to have all the attachments on the unit at once, as opposed to having to change them out. I am more of a hobbyist, so I am not making a ton of knifes and wearing all the parts super fast, which I hear is a possible problem if you are a full time knife maker.
are you in australia? many of the makers i've talked to who own a radius master regret the purchase. not a very versatile machine. check out the fire ant grinder.
Super informative, man. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge on these grinders. Do you have any thoughts on the many DIY grinder builds out there?