Harris Irfan | Islamic Banking is an Oxymoron, Bitcoin for the Khilafah, Overthrowing the System
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- 🙆🏻♂️ Our investment arm, Cur8 Capital - cur8.capital
In today's episode, we get the veteran of Islamic Banking Harris Irfan for a deep dive on everything wrong with the financial system today, its alternatives and what the future holds.
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About us
We're Ibrahim & Mohsin - ex-city lawyers and authors of "Halal Investing for Beginners". We've been studying investments and the traditional Islamic sciences for 13+ years. Over the year we've been published by the Financial Times, the World Economic Forum, Foreign Policy etc.
Today we run a sharia-compliant wealth management platform that manages over $35m in assets. We make videos about investment, personal finance, careers, and entrepreneurship.
We do this to make downtrodden communities better-off. To take people of colour, Muslims, and minorities from being among the poorest in society to the richest.
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Remember, with investing, your capital is at risk. This is not financial advice. If in doubt, always talk to a financial advisor.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00:00 - What's going on?
0:00:15 - Introduction to Harris Irfan
0:01:34 - Deutsche Bank's kick off with Islamic Finance
0:05:56 - Skills gap in Islamic fin-techs
0:11:01 - Islamic finance industry: Good or Bad?
0:19:45 - Commodity Murabaha and its issues
0:23:08 - What a truly Islamic Financial System will look like?
0:29:30 - Bitcoin is the currency of the future
0:40:35 - Can Governments be trusted to look after our money?
0:47:51 - Overthrowing the system
0:49:51 - Gold vs Bitcoin: proof of work?
0:52:11 - Sharia-compliant structures
0:55:45 - Islamic Banks, Scholars and the Middle East
0:59:51 - Practicalities around banking, home-financing and pensions
1:08:27 - Final thoughts
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#islamicpodcast #islamiceconomics #bitcoin #shariacompliant #islamicfinance #islamicpodcasts #muslimpodcast #ifg #islamicrevival #caliphate #financialsystem - บันเทิง
Harris is the real Islamic Finance Guru. Always a pleasure to hear him.
Both Are😂
Incredible episode. Jazakom Allah kheir!
Fascinating ! Thank you ifg and Harris Irfan.
What amazing interview.
Well done team 🎉
Incredible conversation. As a non-finance person, I think I understood most of it, but it would be very helpful to get a similar analysis of the U.S. Islamic finance industry (which seems less developed/sophisticated relative to the U.K.'s). Nonetheless, the broader points about Islamic finance (commodity murabaha and contractum trinius) and it's history were fascinating as well as very impactful. Thank you!
Great interview!
Great one. Jazakallah khairun brother
Ma-shaa-Allah! Great interview and very well presented points. An eye-opener for many who don't know the history of Islamic Finance and very well simplified with great analogies. Well done again Harris.
Totally not insane. If we align to islamic principles holistically, then downstream effects problems can be completely resolved and transformed, God willing.
Absolutely brilliant. When Ibrahim seems ordinary in a conversation you know the other person is something else...with all due
respect to Ibrahim!
MashaAllah, I thought this too when Ibrahim was asking noob questions about BTC, that included the idea that BTC is controlled by some group of people, like the printers..
Otherwise his knowledge of banking and Islamic finance are excellent.
However, in terms of BTC vs original Bitcoin (bsv), BTC dev decisions are done by a central team, BTC core, and most changes from Satoshi version have made it more about currency trading and not sound money.
Tarek el Diwany was also an industry insider thar authored The Problem with Interest
I subscribed because of this video, it's really a very interesting and good video
Great vid
Jazakumullahkhayran for the interview.
In case it hadn't come to your attention, I think the levels on the guest's mic is a bit low and it's a bit echoey.
Not complaining.
This is the 2nd time I listened to Harris and more he talks the more he makes sense, more sense that some of the Scholars..
Yes completely agree. He's very original with his understanding of finance, more than these islamic guru guys and most scholars. I unfortunately see things from a hanafi fiqh perspective, so much more to study.
Let’s not make defamatory comments about scholars. Have you actually sat with, read about or listened to scholars that specialise in economics in Islam.
@@zafran20 yes , hence I commented.
Digital carency can act as legal tender just like paper money, but it will never be real money, like gold and silver
MashaAllah, this is one of the best videos I've ever seen! This brother has done his work and proof is what he just said. He understands both Islam and Islamic finance and the current banking system and its faults. He honest enough to have extracted himself from the system and even call out the fake Islamic banks etc. He's correct that btc can be halaal because it has inherent value from its decentralized and reliable and accessible features, and does not have riba built in like $ and £. I ask the brother respectfully to research the btc civil war and how btc is the corrupted centrally controlled version, while the original satoshi coin is bsv. Bsv doesn't need a lightning network because it's not limited in block size, bsv scales horizontally and not vertically like btc and eth. Big blocks are what satoshi gave us. JazakAllah brother, keep up the dawah! Allah can do all things! SubhanAllah!
He definitely has proof of work
I’ve never seen this guests work before but I loved his ideas and the whole conversation. He’s certainly the kind of contrarian thinker we need as the Islamic ummah in the West. The whole Islamic financial system needs to be evaluated and redesigned because the average Muslim is not financially literate much less understanding Islamic banking system. There’s also lack of trust by many of us of Islamic banks (even in the Muslim world) as I suspect they utilize conventional banking methods.
Amazing talk as always from Haaris. Every talk is a new learning
a bit off topic but this mans outfit is on point!
This is the kind of people we need....but we lack the ability to unite for a greater good
“That is because they say: Trade is just like usury; whereas Allah permitteth trading and forbiddeth usury.”
I have an issue when people say that they research contracts themselves vs taking a recommendation from a reputable scholar who has spent their whole life studying not only Islamic transaction law but also economics. Inevitably what happens is the person who does not have any grounding in either subject (the majority of Muslims) ends up thinking that the Islamic contract is the same as its conventional counterpart. Subsequently, they end up feeling validated to use the conventional contract (this usually applies to mortgages for most people).
Does Harris or IFG ever engage with respected international bodies for Islamic Finance such as IFSB or AAOIFI? Would be great to see such engagement. ❤
Is there a link to the paper the gentlemen are referencing?
Well done harris
It's astonishing !!!
I'm amazed by not only about the idea and philosophy of Islamic Financing but also with the intent and honesty reflection through the entire discussion.. Jazakallah khair looking forward to learn more on Islamic Economic System to make world more equitable to all....
Great analogy of Quran & Bitcoin on decentralization. Proof of work also creates value (beyond protecting the ledger)... Bitcoin miners increasingly use energy waste (e.g., vented methane on landfills) which is bad for the environment... and support renewables by consuming excess generation (e.g., from wind & solar), as well as such investments... Likely a must for bitcoin mining to remain profitable in the future!
Could you please suggest islamic mortgage broker in Birmingham. Thanks
Can someone provide the name or the links to the fintech that Harris mentioned
Bitcoin is constantly under hyper inflation hence the eratic price movement.
No ... the price manipulation of BTC can very easily be done by exchanges where the price of BTC is normally defined ... The amount of BTC traded in the exchanges is very small in relation to the sum amount of BTC
Can you please interview the Tarek E-Diwany
whys the audio is not ballanced, too loud on oneside to which who’s talking. Can adjust that next time
Is quotex currency trading halal
His book is not available anywhere to buy
Bitcoin is hard sound money. I don't think people understand the significance of it.
What is the name of the company that does halal home finance ?
Systems are not fixed. They are overthrown.
Nice to finally hear from somebody who actually understands Bitcoin...
Man - bought a fill bitcoin fot 2k and sold it for 2.5k because if random fatwas 😢
الله عوضني الحمد لله
@@MoFieldswell alot don't still consider crypto as maal or thaman. There is no consensus on it's permissibility.
Where did he acquire the Islamic finance or banking education from? Whatever bio is out there only states that he has BA/MA in Physics and then all of a sudden became a banker. I sometimes don't understand how one transitions from Physics to Banking and that too being well-educated in Islamic Finance. His LinkedIn as well shows only BA,MA in Physics and no other education.
From working 25 years in Banking and Finance brother
Why are you concerned with his credentials? Direct your attention and energy to the content of his arguments instead.
The worlds greatest speculators are either engineers or philosophers. Rarely do you find a king of finance that only studied finance.
@@muffin1589 Why is my concern bothering you? Focus on his lecture rather than my comment. My comment does not question the credibility of his credentials. It simply enquires how he got into banking from being a Physics graduate. In one of his videos he mentioned that he knew nothing about Islamic banking when he joined the banking industry because he was just a science graduate. In my country you would not be hired even at local banks if the only thing you knew was Physics.
@adildoloo4619 Because he has worked in the industry and had interacted with many scholars - apprenticeship. The sahabah became the greatest scholars by staying with the Prophet SAW! Apprenticeship is a very well known method of becoming an expert since time immemorial! Leonardo da Vinci (painter), Vincent Van Gogh (apprentice art dealer tonpainter), Michael Caine (actor), Stella McCartney (tailor to Fashion), Jamie Oliver (catering), Nadiya Hussain (Cookery to TV personality), Gregor Mendel (Philosophy, Physics, Monk to father of genetics), Charles Darwin (Medicine to father of natural history) etc etc!
I am an engineer by degree but banking by profession. Islam and laws of finance are self taught . You don’t need a degree
Based on his level of questioning, the IFG presenter is certainly not a finance guru. It’s a shame really, Harris could have been better utilised as the more knowledgable other by being subjected to more thoughtful questioning.
Isn't the income of a bank haram though?
Mic is not good quality , chairs also not professional. Shame
Guys, i am confused on the defination of RIBA in the context of what harris is explaining. RIBA is surplus yes but surplus in exchange of similar type of consumable item(Gold, Silver, Dates, Wheat, barley,etc). But in fractional reserve system where you are creating 10 dollar out of available 1 dollar is cheating/could be haraam but how is it RIBA? IFG?
Your assessment is correct. Fractional reserve banking is technically not riba, but the way fractional reserve banking is utilized is through the issuance of debt.
FRS is like worst than the 'normal' riba we understand, give loans charge interest blablabla.. but in banking, fractional reserve system creates new money in every new debt.. the new money is the surplus aka riba that he meant
Teaching people that bitcoin is halal when you yourself don't know what or how bitcoin really works
Is haram
First time heard Harris Irfan and seriously "wow". The man's knowledge is superb esp about Bitcoin. We need more ppl like him in Islamic FinTech. Harris would it possible for you to do youTube videos like Cathie Wood, Ray Dalio, do. Muslims needs literate people i.e. knowledge of both Islam and finance, like him to look up to
Komentator-komentator di channel ini positif semua, tidak seperti masyarakat indonesia. Semoga kalian semuanya dirahmati Allah. Aamiin.
Is it Halal to receive free sign-up bonus stock from brokers? The stock rewarded may or may not be halal. If it's not halal, then is it permissible to sell that and use the cash to buy other halal stock. I have a 1:1 margin account. The benefit of this account is that you don't have to wait for you cash to settle after selling, you can immediately buy even though cash has not settled yet. Is is haram to trade with this account?. Would it still be haram to use this type of account if I only trade with settled cash Show less
i am really so sorry , i am confused, he is promoting bitcoin.
Speaks like an angel but turns Shay**n when he later advices Bitcoin as the best option.😂
Pump and DUMP before split
This brother needs to contact the ministry of finance of Islamic Emirate or Afghanistan. They are they are only country with the freedom to actually implement this they just need to be made to understand this. From there it could spread to the rest of the world. InshaAllah
Bwhahahahaha. He prefers his head on his shoulder dude 😂
I don’t think afghans will be happy taking advice from a Pakistani, they need Hindus from India because they trust them more.
Hey ibrahim please tell us abt trading stocks online Beside all criterias of stock trading (type of stocks etc) what about the cfd issue when trading stocks ONLINE with ,can you explain? and how do you trade stocks ONLINE? cuz some peoples says when u buy stocks from brokers they will not give u the original stock share they give u the cfd of that stock so... So THAT IS TRADING STOCKS ONLINE HALAL???
As far as I’m concerned nothing is wrong with buying stocks online, brokers are just custodians of your shares, try to find good trading platform. And flow the Islamic guidelines of trading stocks
*_Most Islamic scholars don't endorse cryptocurrency as they are not backed up by tangible assets._*
What is paper money backed up with?
@@Bitcoinaire1 *_GDP_*
@@HussainFahmy no that’s incorrect. Fiat currencies are only backed by trust in governments. That’s all.
@@HussainFahmy which is largely a function of interest rates.
not tethering the value of a currency to a commodity (paired with cryptography) is a feature, not a bug.
essentially you abstract away any prospect of a unilateral expansion of the supply of currency because there isn't any entity that has such an authority.
@@HussainFahmy 🤡
Where exactly does your real money go ? when you give your real money to the casino as your casino entry fee and play with other bitcoin casino members.
Somebody has you real legal tender ,
Think about it
Nobody can build a car 😂 . Some how we are full of haram but no alternatives and we love to label everything haram and reduce our coverage.
Exactly 😂. How about our salaries/wages? Are they harem or halal 😂😂😂
Brilliant interview! Bitcoin is the solution. Tokenising gold will not work because centralising gold requires trust in humans not to issue more tokens than they have gold backing it.
Lol 😆
The real problem is with fiat money, fractional reserve banking with the deposit garantee from a central bank is the second problem. cryptocurrency is itself has no intrinsic value we should look for other alternatives
There is no such thing as intrinsic value, and don’t let any Kenysian economist tell you otherwise.
Gold has been used for speculation for thousands of years, it is only recent that it’s value is being used for industrial purposes.
Also, fractional reserve banking is conventionally something it isn’t practiced nowadays.
When a bank decides to loan out money, all of the money issued for the loan is manifested via a ledger entry.
The main constraint on the issuance of loans nowadays is not reserve requirements, but rather capital requirements.
BSV Satoshi Version is the real bitcoin
Lol
Why are you promoting "Bitcoin" which majority of Muslims don't even understand how it works and it is a fact that it is digital money with on intrinsic value, why don't you teach them to stop wasting money on things that they don't need and start saving and investing in Halal businesses.
@51:15 sweatcoin sweat wallet and aruco do this already
Yup!
Should have had a coffee table for him to put his water lol
Lol noted
Is he Harris = حارس؟
This is a good alternative to Adam 😅😅😅 Arabic name with English sounding alternative
حارث
The supply of bitcoin is unlimited,
Hence it has a valuation of zero.
Its a game of bits and chips just like in a casino , giving the casino your legal tender for funny money .
It's limited to 21m btc or bsv
@masudsaleh5155
People are made to believe that its limited to 21million bitcoin,
I don't blame them , very smart but dishonest people are running the bitcoin casino
I will put it as simply as possible
For all to understand
1 bitcoin is being divided into billions and trillions of bits
Its being sold in fraction, so its unlimited
People are being sold 0.0000000000056433466 of a bit coin
Can you imagine owning 0.00000000000087644556677
Of a bitcoin
This is why bitcoin price movement is erratic and it will always be erratic
It's simply a vehicle to speculate on price movement also known as gambling with bits and chips only its now online in everyone's phone .
1 bitcoin can be divided into infinity and sold for legal tender.
It's so obvious that it's nothing but a Global online casino .
I think our community is too judgmental and idealistic not realistic
Bitcoin...there is no second best
Gold and silver, Allah's currency for mankind. Any mode of currency that doesn't possess any utility outside the use of monetary transactions is Dajjalic in nature.
@@besthear3284 saying that Bitcoin has no utility is utterly ignorant. Bitcoin has way more utility than gold, Bitcoin not only is decentralized (not subject to RIBA) but also has way more utility than gold, it’s easier to transport and store and to trade. Plus Bitcoin is a store of value like gold
Harris tried his best to Orange pill Ibrahim Khan but he is still not convinced.... he has a great platform IFG and Cur8 capital which promotes crypto( altcpin or shotcoins) as halal as the fundamental economics is different.... Ibrahim needs to read principles of economics, fiat standard and bitcoin standard by saifdeen ammous and may be get him for a interview as Ibrahim struggles to get the point across that bitcoin is anti-riba and accept that fiat money is riba in its current form.
This guy talks like a banker I would not trust him with my money. He talks a good game with zero real life answers. Who has he helped?
13:35
Islamic interest free loans mortgage ect should naturally cost far less than a non Islamic mortgage,
If any so called Islamic mortgage cost more then a non Islamic mortgage,
Then you need to do some financial reverse engineering to find out why because it would make no sense that an Islamic mortgage somehow should cost more.
Unfortunately these islamic banks charge a higher “profit rate” than the conventional banks interest rates. In the US most islamic mortgage banks were deemed to have some haram aspects as per the AMJA fatwa board. The one company that was deemed halal, even that company charges a higher profit rate than the interest rate. It’s the nature of how they operate. Without trying to follow the market interest rate they can get away with charging whatever they want to generate profit for their “rent to own” schemes at least for house loans 😢
99% of people in the Islamic banking scene are beyond a joke but this guy is the awesome.
Bitcoin is haram , its regretful that bitcoin is being promoted here as halal , due to very bad knowledge and understanding of how bitcoin works.
How is it haram?
Bitcoin is Halal, in fact it is even more Halal than the current fiat system which is based on Ribaa. Please do more research before commenting.
Only bitcoin 😅