Zwerchhau, Basics and Counters: Longsword Lesson 9
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- The Zwerchhau is perhaps the most highly recommended technique in Liechtenauer's art. We offer here our understanding of the master cut itself and some of the counters to it. It is beyond the scope of this video series to cover every nuance of the Zwerchhau. We will cover some other related material next week, so stay tuned.
As always, we try to remain open-minded to other interpretations, and ask you to do the same. Thanks for watching!
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Learned a lot from this one. Went over some of what you showed in class. Thanks again for all your hard work.
Awesome. You're welcome
My Homework: Parry Zwerch with a lower Zwerch! The parry has to be with the tip lower than the strike. Kinda like Zwerch in Hanging point as opposed to Ox - that should create the angle you need to defeat the Zwerch then you can slip and wind into Ox on the same side and strike him in the top of the head in thumb grip if you're quicker than the attacker; otherwise, take him out on the other side as he comes around with another Zwerch with a wind into a Crocked cut or False edge parry downward, run-off, and then wind on that side to hit him on the top of the head! :)
excellent now I can prevent an enemy from zwerching off on my head.
thanks for this. this is the most difficult to learn for me as a beginner because of the footwork required to sidestep your opponent.
spaz14 awesome, man! Glad it helped.
fun fact! That play demonstrated at 7:30 is precisely what Codex Wallerstein (Bauman's) says you should do if you can't get the strike underneath his blade in time. "If he is then also quick and strikes before you can lay upon him, then let him strike freely and fall upon his sword with the short edge. Thus you bind him and strike him at the ear and go forward"
awesome videos, keep up the good zwerch!
Haha, thanks!
Thank you both (this one I always messed up on) thanks so much
+Elisa May Shanahan Glad to help!
awesome video guys helped me alot today!
If the Zwerchhau is high and horizontal, another option is to drop below it, not by ducking your head, but by releasing your knees. This way you can keep your torso strait to counter with a Zwerchhau or thrust for speed, or Unterhau ending in Ox for greater defense should he adjust his attack to meet your downward movement. This in general is why a high horizontal cut is not considered a fundamental cut. It is surprisingly easy to dodge, so its good be aware of this.
Thanks for the comment. Of course, if he is doing a Zwerch zum Pflug, and you duck, he will just hit you in the head as you strike him in the arms or the body. I personally love it when people duck, as it leaves me and my sword looking down at the top of their head. ;)
I'm curious, what is your reference for saying that the high horizontal cut is not a fundamental attack? It is one of the most described of the five master cuts. Indeed, it is referenced in multiple manuscripts as being the most useful cut of all. What is the source of your bold statement? Thanks!
Fundamental may have been a poor choice in words. It is not a basic cut. Most horizontal cuts, even if were to step outside Lichtenauer for a moment and examine other systems, tend to be lower even than the point of furthest reach, sometimes as low as the belly.
What is also great about the Zwerchhua though is, that it can be thrown at a downward angle while keeping the hands high, which is something I tend to do at close range to counter any dodge.
The duck itself must be made fast enough that your opponent cant react, and it helps if you step toward the side he is cutting from as you drop to get on the better side of his counters. By keeping your torso rigid, you're able to cut or thrust simultaneously, preferably in a way that allows you cut off his line of attack. If your opponent isn't dedicated to his movements, this wont work, so its something I do only after feeling out my opponent. You can almost think of this Nachreisen technique that gives you a greater window of opportunity to strike.
This isn't necessarily a counter to Zwerchhau specifically, but a counter to any high horizontal cut, and it has its shortcomings if you fail to land your cut or thrust. Even if you successfully defend after a failure, you're left on the bottom, which isn't great. You also have to be able to anticipate exactly what your opponent is going to do, with little room for error. A high horizontal begins the same as a oberhau, so it can be deceptive.
Now this isn't something I've come across in manuscripts yet (though I've been told Capo Ferro has a lunge that is executed like this, but I haven't studied him, so I wouldn't know). Its something I was taught prior to getting involved in HEMA that has stuck with me. If you're feeling adventurous, maybe try it out, but I understand that some want to direct their attention solely on the source material, which I can respect.
These are fantastic videos by the way. Thank you guys so much for sharing.
+Christopher Wolf-Willoughby Agreed: it is not a basic cut; it is a master cut. The Mittelhau would be the basic, but is not given the same level of effectiveness in the German manuscripts, which is our sole focus.
I'm pretty sure we are talking about the same cut between the Zwerch zum Pflug and your descending cut with the hands high. I agree, it works especially when at close range.
I am not disputing the idea that someone could duck under a Zwerch, but when people have tried on me I almost always nail them in the head following. Seems risky, but if it works for you, I won't argue with it. Perhaps you are doing something I have not seen in sparring or in competition. It's just that in a technical video like this we have to stick with techniques described in the texts themselves. Thanks!
Good work guys, really well explained. There are other options to defend 1st zwerchhau if you know your opponent likes using them. Keep up the good work!
the guy I train with love to double zwerch and like you were saying my basic defence was 90 degrees and eventually he would get through
Hope this gave you some more options. Defense has to be fast. It may not work the first time you try it, but practice. Thanks for watching.
That inquartata you made at 2:51 is something we've been training lately as a cut to the back of the head following a feint to the opposite side.
Also: Josh mentions wanting to keep the hands forward, but what are your thoughts about using a zwerchau as a very close-in cut with withdrawn hands?
Tom Farmer Yes, if you are very close in, cutting the Zwerch with withdrawn hands is fine. The idea is to keep the sword in a position to defend you. If you have flanked someone, for instance, you should finish with the sword to the side, between you and the opponent's sword.
Great video! That technique of wrapping the sword around and taking a step back with the back leg is kinda familiar to a "scanso della vita" of Capoferro, which currently is my favorite source of rapier fencing. Do you know where I can find this technique so I could look into it more deeply? Thanks!
Cool! It's great to see similarities between the different traditions. This step is described pretty well in Meyer. We incorporate it here because it works well and makes sense with the vague descriptions of steps given in Döbringer.
Marvelous.
Thank you guys!!!
Both of the counters to the Zwerchau look like they need to be fast/instinctive, what should you do if you're much slower than your opponent?
Plan, and become confident in simple parries.
Trying to react in time when something is happening live is very difficult. You need to recognise the situation incredibly fast. If you know what their next action will be, however, you can counter that much more easily.
A good first stage is to practice simple, fast parries, until you can keep yourself secure using them without needing to consciously plan. Then you are able to analyse the situation and counter at the correct time.
The other useful factor is understanding how your opponent will normally follow up to your first parry. Typically people will deliver a second zwerhaw when you've given them a strong parry - and because you know that's what's about to happen, you can execute the counter much more confidently.
Wineblood learn archery.
@@tombrown407 a war bow is a battlefield weapon. a sword is a side-arm. one is for fighting at war, the other for self-defence. i know what i'd pick.
Old comment but I'll put in my two cents.
This a very good question because although a lot of these zwerch counters can work none of them really shutdown a very competent zwerch fencer, what wasn't covered here is when the attacker adds faints to the left right zwerch combo. Many people mention parry the first normally in a slice/straight parry and then do something to the second you know is coming, if your opponent sees this and faints or just faints anyway those tactics often fail you might get a reactionary parry in but the zwerch is just as likely to hit your hand.
I've seen a lot of counters too it and all of them work and don't work, it depends on context and the people, but few work a lot and don't require great conditioning to achieve. By far the highest ratio of success is if you see a zwerch coming back step as fast and you can and cut the arms/hands and then parry the after blow in slice, if you can make distance you can take advantage of the shortened range of the zwerch but a experienced fencer will be on you and crowed you with the zwerch such that you cannot do this.
The method in the peter von danzig manual is to use slicing, you parry the first and suppress it with the slice, several ways to do this you can suppression cut it down with high cut, thrust into the slice, or just block with point up, push down with the long edge during the bind, so your sword is near his face and ontop of his, if he cuts round you slice his head on the side he's going to cut from with the long edge, the end point is similar to the last technique in this video but with long edge and you'd pass through longpoint or very close too it. the idea is you control the centre and the shortest distance, so you will get there first also you have a better chance if he faints and goes back to the other side as you don't have to move your hands as much to parry, pushing/slicing his hands/arms also becomes an option. That said its still hard to pull off the zwercher can double with you if he lifts his hands and tries to come over the top/around your slice, also its hard to take the strong centre position in his face and on his sword if he backs away and zwerchs left or right with faints he can get around your sword, you also don't have momentum on your side like when you do a counter with a cut.
The other is to rush in in some way, this has the same fundamental strategy as above, if he is going to cut round with the zwerch or faint, hes going have to come around, if you close the distance it becomes easier for you to parry the zwerch as its harder for him to come around. One way is to simply parry the first and then regardless if he comes from the left or right rush in behind the strong of your sword and try to lock up with his strong and tie up/block his arms so he cannot cut round, from here grapple or shove him off, pommel bash, slice arms or low cut to the body. Another is the rush in with a krumphaw (crooked cut) and if you miss because he faints keep rushing in as you krump the other side repeat until you pin his arms from above. The weakness with these is one the first step while you rush he can hit you if he his quick and that if the opponent is bigger than you grappling isn't advantageous.