@@tommastroianni641 I was wondering if there's yet another division among Catholics. They seem to be endless, but that's to be expected in such a time as ours.
I think an interesting question is was Pius XII incapacitated from 1954 onwards? He was suffering hallucinations and constant hiccups and fevers, he apparantly could not even control his household. Sister Pascalina controlled everything. As far as I can tell, the decree for the 1955 Holy Week changes was only signed off by the Sacred Congregation- they say that Pius Xii approved it- but he is not the signatory, Cardinal Cicognani is. Im not saying any of this is evidence, I am evenly split on this issue, just interesting information. Also I would say does your church let the laity recite the Pater Noster at mass? Because Pius xii allowed that too. Do they perform baptisms and extreme unctions in the vernacular? Piis Xii allowed that too...and much more from 1954 onwards.
So does Mario Derksen agree with this video and is now against the pre-1955 clergy? I see that his site is promoted (for lack of a better word) in this video. Is he in full agreement with you, or are you just promoting his site?
Do you really think the next Pope would keep the 1955 Holy Week, especially with the benefit of hindsight and in light of what those revisions necessarily brought about? Give your head a shake, then take this video down. It serves no legitimate purpose.
The papal approved revisions didn’t bring about V2 thats a parrot speculation on something divinely approved. RnR much? Who are you to think you know better than the Church?
Lol, relax-no need to get apoplectic and hysterical. I never said the 1955 reforms brought about Vatican II. And I certainly don’t portend to know better than the Church. Nevertheless, it is a fact that the ‘55 reforms were instrumental in the liturgical reforms that ultimately brought about the Novus Ordo missae, as detailed in Fr. Cekada’s book “Work of Human Hands” (you should give it a read). “If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." This saying is undeniably apposite here. So my (unanswered) question still stands. God bless.
Kind of jarring to see a cut of Fr. Cekada (RIP) repeatedly placed in video in what seems like mocking fashion. Can we disagree with him but let him rest?
The cut about obedience is short but it was not taken out context. It was taken for a video where he was talking about those who insist we must obey Pius XII.
@@catholiccrusaderfilms3974 I don't doubt it was in context. I'm glad at least it was! That's not my point. -What is the practical application for the laity? Do we refuse to go to Holy Week at SGG or RCI or SSPV? -Is this matter one of membership in the Church? If not, why take shots at deceased priests over it? If so, does the CMRI go about saying so? The natural inclination for sedevacantists should be, in theory, lowering temperature, and treating our priests like we would have 200 years ago. Since there is no living principle of unity, unity naturally breaks down. Are we moving the deck chairs and slowing the decay or are we doing the opposite. If we're going to treat them like the Remnant treats Bergoglio, it's a count against the whole sedevacantist thesis.
The pre 55 partisans including Fr. Cekada have made quite a number of videos and podcasts that are very critical of those who use the liturgy of Pius XII. They say things like you are using the Novus Ordo Holy Week. It is those videos that I am reacting to. I my analysis they have been far far far more divisive than I. Do you believe the pre-55 partisan should be able to criticize freely with no response? It’s not that I am being decisive you just don’t like to be shown to be wrong.
@@catholiccrusaderfilms3974I have not seen any videos criticizing those who choose to use the 1955 changes. Clergy I have spoken with who use the pre-55 changes, acknowledge that using what the last pope approved is a legitimate choice based on a Catholic principle. It seems to be those who take your position who attack those holding to the pre-55 Holy Week, leveling charges of "recognize and resist" against them. Both sides should acknowledge that the other side desires to do what is right, and that they are both applying Catholic principles to come to their conclusions.
@@danbremner3544 I went through as much of the pre-55 information as I could find and I was unable to find Catholic principles. What I found was an explanation of why they believe the pre-55 is better. Picking an old abrogated liturgy because it is your personal preference is not a Catholic principle.
@@Laultimatrincherargentina epikeya: the principle that a once-legitimate command can be ignored if the circumstances change, and the authority is absent.
@@LaultimatrincherargentinaIn fact, epikeia only applies when a legitimate authority promulgates a legitimate law. If it were not a legitimate authority or valid law, there would be no need for epikeia. It is a valid Catholic principle that can apply when the circumstances have changed, or a situation arises that was not foreseen by the lawgiver, and the legitimate authority is not available to consult. One may act according to what he believes would reasonably be the decision of the legitimate authority, if the authority were present.
This was great very honest and clear. Division would not be if they would just do what the last Pope asked.
Does Mario from NOW go to the pre 55 Holy Week, or is this against Fr Cekada and Bishop Sanborn, using Mario’s words against them?
I attend the Pius XII revised Holy Week, if it is available.
The answer to the first question isn't relevant; the answer to the second question is almost certainly yes.
@@tommastroianni641 I was wondering if there's yet another division among Catholics. They seem to be endless, but that's to be expected in such a time as ours.
I think an interesting question is was Pius XII incapacitated from 1954 onwards? He was suffering hallucinations and constant hiccups and fevers, he apparantly could not even control his household. Sister Pascalina controlled everything. As far as I can tell, the decree for the 1955 Holy Week changes was only signed off by the Sacred Congregation- they say that Pius Xii approved it- but he is not the signatory, Cardinal Cicognani is.
Im not saying any of this is evidence, I am evenly split on this issue, just interesting information. Also I would say does your church let the laity recite the Pater Noster at mass? Because Pius xii allowed that too. Do they perform baptisms and extreme unctions in the vernacular? Piis Xii allowed that too...and much more from 1954 onwards.
So does Mario Derksen agree with this video and is now against the pre-1955 clergy? I see that his site is promoted (for lack of a better word) in this video.
Is he in full agreement with you, or are you just promoting his site?
I support and recommend Novus Ordo watch but I have no affiliation with Mr. Dirksen.
Do you really think the next Pope would keep the 1955 Holy Week, especially with the benefit of hindsight and in light of what those revisions necessarily brought about? Give your head a shake, then take this video down. It serves no legitimate purpose.
That's not the point. Also the next Pope I think might keep some of the reforms while keeping it mostly pre 55 but that's just my speculation
I’m making the case for common sense. If that’s not the point, what is?
The papal approved revisions didn’t bring about V2 thats a parrot speculation on something divinely approved. RnR much? Who are you to think you know better than the Church?
Lol, relax-no need to get apoplectic and hysterical. I never said the 1955 reforms brought about Vatican II. And I certainly don’t portend to know better than the Church.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that the ‘55 reforms were instrumental in the liturgical reforms that ultimately brought about the Novus Ordo missae, as detailed in Fr. Cekada’s book “Work of Human Hands” (you should give it a read). “If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." This saying is undeniably apposite here.
So my (unanswered) question still stands. God bless.
Could we call the CMRI the Society of Pope Pius XII?
Kind of jarring to see a cut of Fr. Cekada (RIP) repeatedly placed in video in what seems like mocking fashion. Can we disagree with him but let him rest?
The cut about obedience is short but it was not taken out context. It was taken for a video where he was talking about those who insist we must obey Pius XII.
@@catholiccrusaderfilms3974
I don't doubt it was in context. I'm glad at least it was! That's not my point.
-What is the practical application for the laity? Do we refuse to go to Holy Week at SGG or RCI or SSPV?
-Is this matter one of membership in the Church? If not, why take shots at deceased priests over it? If so, does the CMRI go about saying so?
The natural inclination for sedevacantists should be, in theory, lowering temperature, and treating our priests like we would have 200 years ago. Since there is no living principle of unity, unity naturally breaks down. Are we moving the deck chairs and slowing the decay or are we doing the opposite.
If we're going to treat them like the Remnant treats Bergoglio, it's a count against the whole sedevacantist thesis.
And the video IS polemical in nature. It is not a dry academic treatment of the Holy Week reforms. The original trad cast probably was.
This video is just unnecessarily, causing more division.
The pre 55 partisans including Fr. Cekada have made quite a number of videos and podcasts that are very critical of those who use the liturgy of Pius XII. They say things like you are using the Novus Ordo Holy Week. It is those videos that I am reacting to. I my analysis they have been far far far more divisive than I. Do you believe the pre-55 partisan should be able to criticize freely with no response? It’s not that I am being decisive you just don’t like to be shown to be wrong.
@@catholiccrusaderfilms3974I have not seen any videos criticizing those who choose to use the 1955 changes. Clergy I have spoken with who use the pre-55 changes, acknowledge that using what the last pope approved is a legitimate choice based on a Catholic principle. It seems to be those who take your position who attack those holding to the pre-55 Holy Week, leveling charges of "recognize and resist" against them. Both sides should acknowledge that the other side desires to do what is right, and that they are both applying Catholic principles to come to their conclusions.
@@danbremner3544 I went through as much of the pre-55 information as I could find and I was unable to find Catholic principles. What I found was an explanation of why they believe the pre-55 is better. Picking an old abrogated liturgy because it is your personal preference is not a Catholic principle.
Pius XII is not the pope. Because he's not alive.
But he was the last Pope!! So we must obey his last will!!! Nihil innovetur!!!
@@Laultimatrincherargentina epikeya: the principle that a once-legitimate command can be ignored if the circumstances change, and the authority is absent.
@@itsOculus jajaja but that can not be used with a valid Pope when he signed a legitimate change! Stop personal preference!
@@LaultimatrincherargentinaIn fact, epikeia only applies when a legitimate authority promulgates a legitimate law. If it were not a legitimate authority or valid law, there would be no need for epikeia. It is a valid Catholic principle that can apply when the circumstances have changed, or a situation arises that was not foreseen by the lawgiver, and the legitimate authority is not available to consult. One may act according to what he believes would reasonably be the decision of the legitimate authority, if the authority were present.
@@danbremner3544 but not with a Pope! Nihil innovetur!! Why change the last will of Pius XII??? That crap is like R&R position. Don't you see??