Max dB before clipping was about 99dB at 12:30 on the gain. This video was made awhile ago and a firmware update has solved some of the early clipping issues. After the update I was able to push it up to 2:00 before clipping.
Thank, that's useful info. What was max dB before clipping? (at what Frequency or w white noise) That's in the title but not in the video from what I could find. It was mentioned as being a "musical" sub but the test track at the end was mostly an electronic drum loop on 1 note. The bass note was centered at 80Hz, sliding to 60Hz. Repeat. That's visible in Audacity. Highlight one of the drum beats > Analyze > Plot Spectrum We need a test song with music since that hit 1-2 notes. Try some music with drums, keys, bass cello or a 5 string bass with some low content. God Shuffled His Feet by Crash Test Dummies has a few unusually low notes in it. Decent subs hit those notes no problem. Some recordings online (youtube mp3) aren't adequate to have all the notes but the CD and clean recordings go quite deep. Another clean song for testing with deep notes is Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms after it gets going. How does the Bose perform with a low B0 note at 31Hz? I realize that's lower than it's rated for but just wondered. It's probably out of phase or filtered out I presume. I design my subs for a low A0 at 27HZ for use in my band and then cutoff sharply below that to save power since we play no notes below that. We sometimes build our own because nothing commercially comes anywhere near the custom designs unless it's 4x the size and weight; so the Bose was interesting if someone can do some testing on it. 37Hz at -3dB is better than most for the size. How does it sound at 35Hz or 37Hz vs the levels at 50, 60, and 80Hz? It'd be great if you could use REW (room EQ Wizard) and run a sine wave sweep from 100Hz down to 30 or so. Set to 512 or 1k samples and let it take 10-20 seconds to run the sweep. Observe your sound meter as it goes. Or connect a calibrated USB mic and it will generate a full frequency sweep for you on the PC including delay, THD, phase info and more. Very useful. It can even load or accept mic calibration files if we need it fully accurate. The program also has a sine wave generator that can do whatever note you tell it. Run a sweep up or down, set the start and stop notes and how long the sweep takes. And it's free. PA subs are typically built for max volume, often centered around 60-85Hz for punch, especially band pass designs. Finding one flat to 40Hz is hard to find. My last design was 60lbs with a 15" woofer. - 3dB at 18Hz was lower than needed or expected but the internal bracing worked really well. I re-tuned for 30Hz to use with the band and it still hits 27Hz at 0.5dB vs the higher notes (it's 24Hz at -3) so I left it there. As is, the woofer barely moves at 30Hz running at 107dB with both ports open (~ 50 watts). Tests at 118dB at 1m, half space, Z weighted was plenty and still not moving half of xmax. I wish someone built a PA sub like that for use with keys or five string bass. Something flat to 30Hz or 32Hz is almost unheard of except in home theater. I could redesign again and get it down to 45- 50lbs with a lighter woofer. The Kali Audio WS-12 combo PA/Studio subwoofer is almost interesting. That's got side handles, a durable finish and is fairly flat to 30Hz. But at 63lbs it's 12" woofer has less than half the output of the long throw 15" I have in a 600 watt 60lb custom box. Thanks for the insights and can you test with a song with a variety of notes in it?
Glad you enjoyed the video. That video was done awhile ago before a recent firmware update that has increased gain levels before clipping. I'm not as technical as you, all I can say for the size/weight of this sub it shakes the walls of the house! At 12:00 the bass is overpowering and I back it off to 11:30 for a perfect blend with tops. At this point no reason personally to do max clipping tests because I never even come near for my applications. Thanks for the song recommendations I'll try them but I am very aware of copyright issues on TH-cam. I checked out the Kali WS12. Sounds very interesting for only $600. Tuned more for studio than live sound?
@@WWeiss-nv5vz Yes, the Kali audio sub is for studio use but the design with handles, a speaker grill and a hard finish make it possible to use it in a live setting within reason. It's pretty unusual in that sense. I'd pick one up if it was a lighter just to have more options for a small venue. Those couple test songs I mentioned weren't really to put online but can be useful in your own tests. It's pretty safe to do max testing particularly with pure sine wave sources and ear plugs where you can gradually increase levels and listen for anything changing such as port air noise indicating you're getting closer to design max and can back down if it sounds funny. It's much easier to hear what's going on with the woofer if there isn't a wide spectrum song or white noise going on. You can also use Room EQ wizard and run a test at 95, then 100dB, 105 etc and observe total harmonic distortion (after getting familiar with the program). You'll know well ahead of time what the distortion is at and at some point it'll start increasing at a faster rate and you know you're near the max. That way you don't have to actually stress the speaker very much because we want to run within the linear range anyway. It's also handy to use that at medium to low volume and observe woofer movement with the speaker ports open and then closed to see how much the port is contributing to the sound (at various Hz) and see how much it's helping the woofer by limiting the excursion. Once you're below the port turning frequency the port no longer assists the woofer and that's what the subsonic filter is for since we don't want it trying to do those notes at all. A wolfer can handle a lot at higher notes and while supported by the base reflex ports at notes near the port frequency. They typically only bottom out if overdriven or running a sound below the port tuning frequency. One downside of the Bose is they often have proprietary connectors or hardware. Certainly the oval shaped woofer is proprietary and nothing else will fit. If they sold those woofers that would be interesting because you could build and tune your cabinet whatever size, shape and weight you wanted. Quality 1/2" plywood with glue joints and clever cross bracing can be very strong and light. BassBoss makes some like that but they're very expensive and still larger and heavier than my own designs. It's the compromise of physics. They can go extremely loud or deep but not both without larger size or more excursion. PA systems almost always pick loud over flat or deep notes.
Glad you liked it. I don't remember some packing material that came with something?? You can always spend, and get the "professional isolation pad" sub dude.
@@tngo54 They make two different sizes www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDudeII--auralex-subdude-ii-subwoofer-isolation-pad?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=studio&recording&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065013197418&lid=39700065013197418&ds_s_kwgid=58700007232174981&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9031179&creative=537361853706&targetid=aud-418160834130:dsa-1385849820210&campaignid=6730319008&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw29CRBhCUARIsAOboZbIfmyyjolYtSz8F70fKExMz30UKwdyafqB3-A1zfDnW8JnnvpAXx08aAhfFEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Take note of the Tonematch preset you have on all the inputs. It looks like you have it enabled on your input 1, but I can't quite tell. I would take it off and use your mixer to EQ since you are playing different things through it. Also, you can control the sub-bass with the Bluetooth app.
Thanks Justin for your input! Tonematch was not enabled on Ch.1. With the amount of bass the Sub2 puts out, no need to add bass from the App. Unfortunately Bose has decided to go with an Old School 2 band EQ. When you add bass on the App it affects the mids and highs. I do have the Treble and Mids boosted slightly on the mixer.
@@WWeiss-nv5vz I am not saying to add bass. Just making sure your tone match inputs are all off when doing baseline testing. There is also a system EQ on the L1. Is that off as well? Just want to make sure both the inputs are set to OFF, as well as the output system Eq.
Your videos are phenomenal, they’ve helped me so much. Thank you! This might be a dumb question, but…say I wanted dual subs. If I was running a jbl pxr one, would it work ok, to ad a Bose sub2? Or is it bad to mix/match subwoofers?
Thanks for that compliment! I've never heard the PRX One but I heard the bass is good. Nothing wrong with mix/matching brands because the PRX bass section isn't a real subwoofer. I'm sure the Sub2 has better bass but the second sub should be considerably stronger to hear a big difference. If weight isn't an issue I would go with an 18" sub from RCF or the QSC KS118.
Had the F1 set up ...sold it for l32 sub 2's .... what a difference 👏 f1 is muddy in my opinion ... sub 2 cleaner lower and easy to carry into club unlike 2 f1s which knackered my back with its poor grab handles
Does anyone know if its possible to make a subwoofer using Bose Sub1 into the TX312 ALTO PA speaker...just wanted to get an insight for those who are familiar with this...Thanks
No way. I've owned both subwoofers the F1 and the sub 2 are in different classes. The sub two definitely has more frequency range than the F1 subwoofer. I've read people's comments before where they think the F1 subwoofer is better but it just all depends on what you want. For my taste you can definitely hear the sub too better at deeper frequencies than the F1 subwoofer. Look at the bundles, the F1 system does not cost as much as the pro L132 with a sub 2. You think bose would make something that was more expensive but less powerful? If that were the case Bose would just recommend you buy an F1 subwoofer with a pro L132 since basically the F1 subwoofer is built off the Bose B2 subwoofer design. However the F1 subwoofer musically cannot keep up with the pro l132 hence the birth of the Bose Sub 2. Before selling my F1 system I played both subwoofer side by side and I'll tell you if you want a more detailed subwoofer the sub 2 is definitely the way to go. A speaker capable of playing more frequencies in my opinion always wins.
Bose made the sub 2 for the L1 32, they are completely different systems with different targets. the sub 2 was not created to replace the F1. The L1 pro with the sub 2 is one system and the F1 is another system, forget about that crazy idea. And another thing, the F1 sub doesn't clip earlier than the Sub 2, this so-called problem of the F1 clipping earlier has already been solved, cutting a single frequency solved the problem, my F1 subs never clipped again. Sub F1 130 db's and the sub 2 124 db's. The quality of the Sub 2 is good, but it lacks power for what I want. Now that my F1 subs don't clip anymore I'm super happy.
Using an I Pad mini in one hand and using my other hand for single drum stick or manipulating keyboard. I'll give it a try. Keep the suggestions coming. Much appreciated!
Max dB before clipping was about 99dB at 12:30 on the gain. This video was made awhile ago and a firmware update has solved some of the early clipping issues. After the update I was able to push it up to 2:00 before clipping.
how did you upgrade the firmware on the sub?? i have the same sub.
@@magicmagnificent8862 Bose Software Updater btu.bose.com/?p=-1#section=connect
@@WWeiss-nv5vzt You're a life saver. Thank you
@@TheAngelOlguin After the Firmware update the Bose Sub2 can go much louder before clipping!
I just updated base but when i connect sub to computer noting happens
Most recent test: Sub2 didn't clip until 108dB.
Thank, that's useful info.
What was max dB before clipping? (at what Frequency or w white noise)
That's in the title but not in the video from what I could find.
It was mentioned as being a "musical" sub but the test track at the end was mostly an electronic drum loop on 1 note. The bass note was centered at 80Hz, sliding to 60Hz. Repeat.
That's visible in Audacity. Highlight one of the drum beats > Analyze > Plot Spectrum
We need a test song with music since that hit 1-2 notes.
Try some music with drums, keys, bass cello or a 5 string bass with some low content.
God Shuffled His Feet by Crash Test Dummies has a few unusually low notes in it. Decent subs hit those notes no problem.
Some recordings online (youtube mp3) aren't adequate to have all the notes but the CD and clean recordings go quite deep.
Another clean song for testing with deep notes is Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms after it gets going.
How does the Bose perform with a low B0 note at 31Hz?
I realize that's lower than it's rated for but just wondered.
It's probably out of phase or filtered out I presume.
I design my subs for a low A0 at 27HZ for use in my band and then cutoff sharply below that to save power since we play no notes below that.
We sometimes build our own because nothing commercially comes anywhere near the custom designs unless it's 4x the size and weight;
so the Bose was interesting if someone can do some testing on it.
37Hz at -3dB is better than most for the size.
How does it sound at 35Hz or 37Hz vs the levels at 50, 60, and 80Hz?
It'd be great if you could use REW (room EQ Wizard) and run a sine wave sweep from 100Hz down to 30 or so.
Set to 512 or 1k samples and let it take 10-20 seconds to run the sweep. Observe your sound meter as it goes. Or connect a calibrated USB mic and it will generate a full frequency sweep for you on the PC including delay, THD, phase info and more. Very useful. It can even load or accept mic calibration files if we need it fully accurate.
The program also has a sine wave generator that can do whatever note you tell it.
Run a sweep up or down, set the start and stop notes and how long the sweep takes.
And it's free.
PA subs are typically built for max volume, often centered around 60-85Hz for punch, especially band pass designs.
Finding one flat to 40Hz is hard to find.
My last design was 60lbs with a 15" woofer.
- 3dB at 18Hz was lower than needed or expected but the internal bracing worked really well.
I re-tuned for 30Hz to use with the band and it still hits 27Hz at 0.5dB vs the higher notes (it's 24Hz at -3) so I left it there.
As is, the woofer barely moves at 30Hz running at 107dB with both ports open (~ 50 watts).
Tests at 118dB at 1m, half space, Z weighted was plenty and still not moving half of xmax.
I wish someone built a PA sub like that for use with keys or five string bass.
Something flat to 30Hz or 32Hz is almost unheard of except in home theater.
I could redesign again and get it down to 45- 50lbs with a lighter woofer.
The Kali Audio WS-12 combo PA/Studio subwoofer is almost interesting.
That's got side handles, a durable finish and is fairly flat to 30Hz.
But at 63lbs it's 12" woofer has less than half the output of the long throw 15" I have in a 600 watt 60lb custom box.
Thanks for the insights and can you test with a song with a variety of notes in it?
Glad you enjoyed the video. That video was done awhile ago before a recent firmware update that has increased gain levels before clipping. I'm not as technical as you, all I can say for the size/weight of this sub it shakes the walls of the house! At 12:00 the bass is overpowering and I back it off to 11:30 for a perfect blend with tops. At this point no reason personally to do max clipping tests because I never even come near for my applications. Thanks for the song recommendations I'll try them but I am very aware of copyright issues on TH-cam. I checked out the Kali WS12. Sounds very interesting for only $600. Tuned more for studio than live sound?
@@WWeiss-nv5vz Yes, the Kali audio sub is for studio use but the design with handles, a speaker grill and a hard finish make it possible to use it in a live setting within reason. It's pretty unusual in that sense.
I'd pick one up if it was a lighter just to have more options for a small venue.
Those couple test songs I mentioned weren't really to put online but can be useful in your own tests.
It's pretty safe to do max testing particularly with pure sine wave sources and ear plugs where you can gradually increase levels and listen for anything changing such as port air noise indicating you're getting closer to design max and can back down if it sounds funny.
It's much easier to hear what's going on with the woofer if there isn't a wide spectrum song or white noise going on.
You can also use Room EQ wizard and run a test at 95, then 100dB, 105 etc and observe total harmonic distortion (after getting familiar with the program).
You'll know well ahead of time what the distortion is at and at some point it'll start increasing at a faster rate and you know you're near the max.
That way you don't have to actually stress the speaker very much because we want to run within the linear range anyway.
It's also handy to use that at medium to low volume and observe woofer movement with the speaker ports open and then closed to see how much the port is contributing to the sound (at various Hz) and see how much it's helping the woofer by limiting the excursion.
Once you're below the port turning frequency the port no longer assists the woofer and that's what the subsonic filter is for since we don't want it trying to do those notes at all.
A wolfer can handle a lot at higher notes and while supported by the base reflex ports at notes near the port frequency.
They typically only bottom out if overdriven or running a sound below the port tuning frequency.
One downside of the Bose is they often have proprietary connectors or hardware. Certainly the oval shaped woofer is proprietary and nothing else will fit.
If they sold those woofers that would be interesting because you could build and tune your cabinet whatever size, shape and weight you wanted.
Quality 1/2" plywood with glue joints and clever cross bracing can be very strong and light.
BassBoss makes some like that but they're very expensive and still larger and heavier than my own designs.
It's the compromise of physics.
They can go extremely loud or deep but not both without larger size or more excursion.
PA systems almost always pick loud over flat or deep notes.
@@davem5403 Thanks, a studio sub that hits hard for small PA duty is KRK 10S: $450, 34lbs, 117dB max, 27Hz
Hi there. Good review. Where do you buy the foam pad that the sub is sitting on?
Glad you liked it.
I don't remember some packing material that came with something?? You can always spend, and get the "professional isolation pad" sub dude.
@@WWeiss-nv5vz thanks for the reply. Let me look into the isolation pad.
@@tngo54 They make two different sizes www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SubDudeII--auralex-subdude-ii-subwoofer-isolation-pad?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=studio&recording&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065013197418&lid=39700065013197418&ds_s_kwgid=58700007232174981&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9031179&creative=537361853706&targetid=aud-418160834130:dsa-1385849820210&campaignid=6730319008&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw29CRBhCUARIsAOboZbIfmyyjolYtSz8F70fKExMz30UKwdyafqB3-A1zfDnW8JnnvpAXx08aAhfFEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Take note of the Tonematch preset you have on all the inputs. It looks like you have it enabled on your input 1, but I can't quite tell. I would take it off and use your mixer to EQ since you are playing different things through it. Also, you can control the sub-bass with the Bluetooth app.
Thanks Justin for your input! Tonematch was not enabled on Ch.1. With the amount of bass the Sub2 puts out, no need to add bass from the App. Unfortunately Bose has decided to go with an Old School 2 band EQ. When you add bass on the App it affects the mids and highs. I do have the Treble and Mids boosted slightly on the mixer.
@@WWeiss-nv5vz I am not saying to add bass. Just making sure your tone match inputs are all off when doing baseline testing. There is also a system EQ on the L1. Is that off as well? Just want to make sure both the inputs are set to OFF, as well as the output system Eq.
@@DJJASProductions Actually main system EQ set to Music. How would that change things?
@@WWeiss-nv5vz I would run everything flat, including the inputs, and double-check again the inputs are set to OFF for the tonematch.
@@WWeiss-nv5vz the tone match its not to add bass its to give you a curve eq that fits what you are listening to.
Is there any competitor in weigh and dimension under 1300$?
I was thinking db technologies es1203
?
@@Zozo-pb6nc I mean there is a louder and cheaper column Array system.
It is dB technology es1203
do you think that with two sub 2 you can equal an 18 "?
also, remind me what mixer you are using, just curious.
Mackie ProFX16V3
Your videos are phenomenal, they’ve helped me so much. Thank you! This might be a dumb question, but…say I wanted dual subs. If I was running a jbl pxr one, would it work ok, to ad a Bose sub2? Or is it bad to mix/match subwoofers?
Thanks for that compliment! I've never heard the PRX One but I heard the bass is good. Nothing wrong with mix/matching brands because the PRX bass section isn't a real subwoofer. I'm sure the Sub2 has better bass but the second sub should be considerably stronger to hear a big difference. If weight isn't an issue I would go with an 18" sub from RCF or the QSC KS118.
You have to try adding to it the t4s it makes a big difference tone match. Omg
I've never heard the t4s but I've read many great things about it. I do play it through a Mackie ProFX16 which adds some good EQ and effects.
Had the F1 set up ...sold it for l32 sub 2's .... what a difference 👏 f1 is muddy in my opinion ... sub 2 cleaner lower and easy to carry into club unlike 2 f1s which knackered my back with its poor grab handles
Thanks, very few comparisons on the internet between the two systems.
Does anyone know if its possible to make a subwoofer using Bose Sub1 into the TX312 ALTO PA speaker...just wanted to get an insight for those who are familiar with this...Thanks
10 db is twice the volume. Doubling the power only will raise you 3db
Thanks!
F1 sub is better
That subwoofer is unreal was much better sound then my RCF twin drivers always better
No way. I've owned both subwoofers the F1 and the sub 2 are in different classes. The sub two definitely has more frequency range than the F1 subwoofer. I've read people's comments before where they think the F1 subwoofer is better but it just all depends on what you want. For my taste you can definitely hear the sub too better at deeper frequencies than the F1 subwoofer. Look at the bundles, the F1 system does not cost as much as the pro L132 with a sub 2. You think bose would make something that was more expensive but less powerful? If that were the case Bose would just recommend you buy an F1 subwoofer with a pro L132 since basically the F1 subwoofer is built off the Bose B2 subwoofer design. However the F1 subwoofer musically cannot keep up with the pro l132 hence the birth of the Bose Sub 2.
Before selling my F1 system I played both subwoofer side by side and I'll tell you if you want a more detailed subwoofer the sub 2 is definitely the way to go. A speaker capable of playing more frequencies in my opinion always wins.
Bose made the sub 2 for the L1 32, they are completely different systems with different targets. the sub 2 was not created to replace the F1. The L1 pro with the sub 2 is one system and the F1 is another system, forget about that crazy idea. And another thing, the F1 sub doesn't clip earlier than the Sub 2, this so-called problem of the F1 clipping earlier has already been solved, cutting a single frequency solved the problem, my F1 subs never clipped again. Sub F1 130 db's and the sub 2 124 db's. The quality of the Sub 2 is good, but it lacks power for what I want. Now that my F1 subs don't clip anymore I'm super happy.
Why did you say hello TH-cam. I’m pretty sure none of us work at TH-cam. You should be saying hello audio enthusiast
I'll try that next time :)
Also, for better video quality, record sidways, not vertical.
Using an I Pad mini in one hand and using my other hand for single drum stick or manipulating keyboard. I'll give it a try. Keep the suggestions coming. Much appreciated!
@@WWeiss-nv5vz That sounds tough and you bet. Maybe use your phone to take the video. Might be a lot easier.
@@DJJASProductions Phone is maxed out on storage:(
Latest Test: How many watts does the Sub2 pull at max volume? th-cam.com/video/OTVYVKeXGM0/w-d-xo.html