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The mamluk sultanate was conquered easily in our timeline because the ottomans were able to subjugate the aristocracy of egypt quite easily, something which would absolutely not happen if they were christian.
@@justinianthegreat1444 There's no way the other christians state would voluntarily make the ottomans stronger than they already were. Just because the ottomans are christians in this scenario doesn't mean europe would just let the ottomans gobble them up.
If this had occured, likelywise the Ottomans would've married the Byzantine family all the time and even the Romanovs of Russia. And they'd have a easier job on conquering some parts of Europe because after all Europe would actually recognize them as the Roman Empire and they'd get allies that support them.
@@lorath Exactly. It’s also even more trouble to the Holy Roman Empire who would have to face an prime Ottoman army while also facing multiple strong enemies like Russia. Heck, maybe the Ottomans even could conquer some parts of Italy.
Ottomans would have probably conquered some parts of Italy anyways if the objective of the empire had not changed after Mehmed II@@guywithacreativename5134
I do think that Christian Ottomans (most likely orthodox ottomans) would reshape the Roman Empire in their image. Probably they would not call their empire "Roman Empire", but roman influence would be too strong. They also would be much more hostile against Egypt and the Timurids, and I can see them launching their own holy wars against both states. Would Mehmet II conquer Constantinople? Maybe. He was a conqueror, and he would try to take the city to increase his popularity and become a defender of Orthodox Christianity. I don't think any future ottoman emperor would mend the schism.
i feel like the Ottomans wouldn't be called the Ottomans, they'd probably be called the Romans, since they're Christian and at times the strongest county in Europe
well the irl ottomans called themselves the romans but nobody referred to them as such. Therefore I believe things would be much the same in this timeline
@@micahistory in the real history it was a Muslim empire claiming to be the state most European empires claimed to be, this timeline it's a Christian state conquering much of what was once the Roman empire. People in this timeline would probably see the Ottomans as a continuation of the Roman/Byzantine Empire. Their conquest of Byzantium would likely be seen more like the way we see Nicaea.
@@cgyoboi i doubt it for the same reason the HRE was never seen as Roman. It was not a direct continuation and was not ruled by the people of Roman descent
Orthodoxy doesn`t believe in holy wars, which is why they never called for a crusade themselves, it didn`t exist for them, probably since the entire idea of orthodoxy was tied to the idea of the Eastern Roman Empire, which saw it as just rightful reconquest of past lands. But even so, the Ottomans in this timeline would claim the title of Kaysr i Rûm, so they would also not call for a crusade on which they would absolutely be the only ones fighting.
basically the ottomans are gonna be more accepted by the europeans but that wont stop ottoman expansion into europe, also north africa and the middle east will try and resist ottoman rule due to religious differences, and maybe lebanon and syria might become christian instead of muslim
@@micahistory it would be better if they weren't Muslim? As if your Christian empires did less atrocities and destruction, what a weak and antisemitic orientalist perception of the ottomans you lot have
it wont change the world at all, instead it will just convert syria and lebanon to christianity and maybe weaken other muslim countries's faith in islam (also bosnia and albania will be a majority christian country) basically ottomans will just expand christian faith into some muslim lands
We were still ruling the balkans and Iraq/Syria. And the holy land of Al-Kudus as well. Also we would be in EU and be one of the richest countries in the world. Maybe the richest. But Allah is great and we would chose nothing but Allah!
If in this world the Turks were seen as a complete part of the west and joined the the prototypes of the EU it would be interesting to see how rich they’d be turkeys massive population would give them a lot of power
I know the focus here is the Ottomans but I'd like to point out that since the crusade of Varna didn't happen Hungary and Poland would have the same Jagiellon king for longer than in out timeline. This could shake things up a bit, especially cosnidering that even the Grand Duke of Lithuania is closely related to this king.
You failed to mention that IRL the Ottomans already claiming to be the Roman Empire, would have a much easier playingground for this claim and might have in fact succeeded in uniting Europe under the "Roman Empire"
@@micahistory I mean if you look at the extent of HRE under Carl V I think it was(Spanish/King HR Emperor), it was close enough, If Ottomans were to take it down or vice versa it's already done in that case. Best chance for a succesful Ottoman Rome is in my opinion Catholic Ottomans as they already managed Orthodoxes as Muslims but being Catholic might have got them serious Papal support. But it is very far fetched so I do agree the capacity thing is there. Still Ottoman-Papal alliance could pull it off.
@@attilaseyfullah8522 well sort of but the hre and spain were nowhere close to being the roman empire and plus if the ottomans were to control it too, they would still need france and england under control.
@@micahistory I mean HRE technicaly does make a good claim for Rome, but controls no historic capital of Rome. Pluss we don't know what would a Catholic influenced Ottoman language would sound like. Turkish incorparates many Arabic words due to Islam, we might have seen a culturaly more unified Europe at least.
I agree with the points you made, and this is a unique timeline, I have not seen anyone else on TH-cam do this, however I do think that Greek and Bulgarian culture would have a stronger place in the Empire rather than Turkish culture if they were to convert, they would rely early on on their Greek Christian population and eventually Bulgarian Christian population to provide loyal manpower for their armies, as the Turks would not immediately convert and it would probably take a good 100 to 200 years to fully convert most of the Turkish population to Christianity. You also have to take into consider that the Ottomans would probably emulate the Eastern Roman identity if they were Christian, every Orthodox nation in some way attempted to emulate the Eastern Roman Empire, both for prestige and religious reasons, the Muslim Ottoman Empire in our own timeline claimed themselves to be the Roman Empire, so I think the Ottomans in this timeline would do everything they can to emulate the Eastern Roman Empire once they conquer it, especially because it would greatly benefit their state, I think they would also probably have their ruling Dynasty convert to essentially Greek culture, because that's the backbone of their loyal population early on, and the church of Constantinople, which would be the backbone of their religious support, especially after they conquer the city, was a Greek speaking Church. Overall this is a good scenario, happy late birthday, good day to you.
@@micahistory I looked it up, Prof. Halil Inalcık says the Oghuz stuff is made up but their origin is not clear. Maybe they were from another tribe but if it was, wouldn't they say it proudly? Some say they didn't in order to unify various tribes. My source is here but it is Turkish: th-cam.com/video/DpHPLo0nLac/w-d-xo.html You should also read the lineage in wikipedia. It has some sources if you are interested. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I
What if Ottomans had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
@@micahistory most of their land was inhabited by muslim peoples so they would constantly revolt like the balkans did in our timeline just on a greater scale and countries like regency of algiers wouldn’t have joined willingly
Bad topic for an "alternate history" topic especially when MILLIONS of non-muslims were slain just for being somebody else. 5+ million of my people died.
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The mamluk sultanate was conquered easily in our timeline because the ottomans were able to subjugate the aristocracy of egypt quite easily, something which would absolutely not happen if they were christian.
thanks for letting me know
Do you think the Ottomans can't kill them and replace them with Greeks?
But there won't be any crusades against the Ottomans if they were christians
@@ThatBalkanGuy. It would instead gain the support of the Christian world who could give the Ottomans weaponry, money, and manpower
@@justinianthegreat1444 There's no way the other christians state would voluntarily make the ottomans stronger than they already were. Just because the ottomans are christians in this scenario doesn't mean europe would just let the ottomans gobble them up.
Nice video.
bruh you didn't even watch it
ok its time to sleep...
wait WHAT!!! christian ottomans?!
lets watch this stupid heresy, but then sleep!
did you find it interesting?
If this had occured, likelywise the Ottomans would've married the Byzantine family all the time and even the Romanovs of Russia. And they'd have a easier job on conquering some parts of Europe because after all Europe would actually recognize them as the Roman Empire and they'd get allies that support them.
yes
I love the fact that Ottoman emperors called themselves Caesar of Rome, it would be more recognizable for Europe if they were christian.
@@lorath Exactly. It’s also even more trouble to the Holy Roman Empire who would have to face an prime Ottoman army while also facing multiple strong enemies like Russia. Heck, maybe the Ottomans even could conquer some parts of Italy.
not only that, like Russia they'd probably form an independent Turkic/Ottoman Orthodox church
Ottomans would have probably conquered some parts of Italy anyways if the objective of the empire had not changed after Mehmed II@@guywithacreativename5134
As an Turkish Christian from Turkey this is really interesting to watch. Glory to his name JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD. Selamlar kardeşlerim !!!
nice
Kanka cehenneme gideceksin sanırım bb
Vay vay vay nasıl kristiyan oldun kardeşim
@@DenizBahceci araştırarak ve okuyarak
@@darklurkerirl6101 güzel kanki bende kristiyanım
I do think that Christian Ottomans (most likely orthodox ottomans) would reshape the Roman Empire in their image. Probably they would not call their empire "Roman Empire", but roman influence would be too strong. They also would be much more hostile against Egypt and the Timurids, and I can see them launching their own holy wars against both states. Would Mehmet II conquer Constantinople? Maybe. He was a conqueror, and he would try to take the city to increase his popularity and become a defender of Orthodox Christianity. I don't think any future ottoman emperor would mend the schism.
i feel like the Ottomans wouldn't be called the Ottomans, they'd probably be called the Romans, since they're Christian and at times the strongest county in Europe
well the irl ottomans called themselves the romans but nobody referred to them as such. Therefore I believe things would be much the same in this timeline
@@micahistory in the real history it was a Muslim empire claiming to be the state most European empires claimed to be, this timeline it's a Christian state conquering much of what was once the Roman empire. People in this timeline would probably see the Ottomans as a continuation of the Roman/Byzantine Empire. Their conquest of Byzantium would likely be seen more like the way we see Nicaea.
@@cgyoboi i doubt it for the same reason the HRE was never seen as Roman. It was not a direct continuation and was not ruled by the people of Roman descent
Orthodoxy doesn`t believe in holy wars, which is why they never called for a crusade themselves, it didn`t exist for them, probably since the entire idea of orthodoxy was tied to the idea of the Eastern Roman Empire, which saw it as just rightful reconquest of past lands. But even so, the Ottomans in this timeline would claim the title of Kaysr i Rûm, so they would also not call for a crusade on which they would absolutely be the only ones fighting.
cool
Technically, they would be no different than Bulgarians and probably call their ruler Tsar instead of Sultan.
yes and no
basically the ottomans are gonna be more accepted by the europeans but that wont stop ottoman expansion into europe, also north africa and the middle east will try and resist ottoman rule due to religious differences, and maybe lebanon and syria might become christian instead of muslim
Really interesting bit of alt history that opens up so many different scenarios and happy birthday man!!! 🥳
thanks so much guys!
it would be a better world for sure
yes it would
@@micahistory antisemite detected
@@aintankha6617 what?
@@micahistory it would be better if they weren't Muslim?
As if your Christian empires did less atrocities and destruction, what a weak and antisemitic orientalist perception of the ottomans you lot have
it wont change the world at all, instead it will just convert syria and lebanon to christianity and maybe weaken other muslim countries's faith in islam (also bosnia and albania will be a majority christian country) basically ottomans will just expand christian faith into some muslim lands
A better world
We were still ruling the balkans and Iraq/Syria. And the holy land of Al-Kudus as well.
Also we would be in EU and be one of the richest countries in the world. Maybe the richest.
But Allah is great and we would chose nothing but Allah!
If in this world the Turks were seen as a complete part of the west and joined the the prototypes of the EU it would be interesting to see how rich they’d be turkeys massive population would give them a lot of power
I know the focus here is the Ottomans but I'd like to point out that since the crusade of Varna didn't happen Hungary and Poland would have the same Jagiellon king for longer than in out timeline. This could shake things up a bit, especially cosnidering that even the Grand Duke of Lithuania is closely related to this king.
good point
You failed to mention that IRL the Ottomans already claiming to be the Roman Empire, would have a much easier playingground for this claim and might have in fact succeeded in uniting Europe under the "Roman Empire"
there was no way the ottomans would have the capacity to control all the former roman empire but you bring some good points
@@micahistory I mean if you look at the extent of HRE under Carl V I think it was(Spanish/King HR Emperor), it was close enough, If Ottomans were to take it down or vice versa it's already done in that case.
Best chance for a succesful Ottoman Rome is in my opinion Catholic Ottomans as they already managed Orthodoxes as Muslims but being Catholic might have got them serious Papal support.
But it is very far fetched so I do agree the capacity thing is there. Still Ottoman-Papal alliance could pull it off.
@@attilaseyfullah8522 well sort of but the hre and spain were nowhere close to being the roman empire and plus if the ottomans were to control it too, they would still need france and england under control.
@@micahistory I mean HRE technicaly does make a good claim for Rome, but controls no historic capital of Rome. Pluss we don't know what would a Catholic influenced Ottoman language would sound like. Turkish incorparates many Arabic words due to Islam, we might have seen a culturaly more unified Europe at least.
@@attilaseyfullah8522 yes that is likely
Maybe they could form a union with the Russians via marriage
watch the rest to find out
I agree with the points you made, and this is a unique timeline, I have not seen anyone else on TH-cam do this, however I do think that Greek and Bulgarian culture would have a stronger place in the Empire rather than Turkish culture if they were to convert, they would rely early on on their Greek Christian population and eventually Bulgarian Christian population to provide loyal manpower for their armies, as the Turks would not immediately convert and it would probably take a good 100 to 200 years to fully convert most of the Turkish population to Christianity. You also have to take into consider that the Ottomans would probably emulate the Eastern Roman identity if they were Christian, every Orthodox nation in some way attempted to emulate the Eastern Roman Empire, both for prestige and religious reasons, the Muslim Ottoman Empire in our own timeline claimed themselves to be the Roman Empire, so I think the Ottomans in this timeline would do everything they can to emulate the Eastern Roman Empire once they conquer it, especially because it would greatly benefit their state, I think they would also probably have their ruling Dynasty convert to essentially Greek culture, because that's the backbone of their loyal population early on, and the church of Constantinople, which would be the backbone of their religious support, especially after they conquer the city, was a Greek speaking Church. Overall this is a good scenario, happy late birthday, good day to you.
hey thank you very much, I appreciate your thoughtful insight into this topic
@@micahistory you're welcome mate
I would be very happy
im sure u would
If the Ottomans were Christians, they'd probably create an Orthodox dual monarchy similar to Austria-Hungary
what would the oither principal nation be you think?
@@micahistory I think Greeks or Armenians
@@asdfds45 makes sense
It'll upload soon. Sorry about being late.
ok
You should also know that Osman was probably Christian origin. All the Turkic Oghuz stuff was made up much later after his death.
where is the evidence?
@@micahistory I looked it up, Prof. Halil Inalcık says the Oghuz stuff is made up but their origin is not clear. Maybe they were from another tribe but if it was, wouldn't they say it proudly? Some say they didn't in order to unify various tribes.
My source is here but it is Turkish:
th-cam.com/video/DpHPLo0nLac/w-d-xo.html
You should also read the lineage in wikipedia. It has some sources if you are interested.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I
If Ottomans were Christian - Byzantine Empire could have got the greatest army and greatest rulers for itself
the ottomans wouldn't be the byzantines even if they'd be more similar
This is a timeline where the ottomans become a Byzantine dynasty
somewhat
Well thank god it never happened.
why?
Congratulations and interesting ideas. 👍🏻👍🏻
thanks bro
Congrulations bro good video good topic :)
thanks dude
What if Ottomans had adopted the cult of Makima, Revy, Cutie Honey, Marin Kitagawa, Trixie Tang, Judy Neutron, Marge Simpson, Wendy Corduroy, Lois Griffin, Sailor Moon and Maddie Fenton instead of Abrahamic shit?
Happy birthday here too! 🎉🎉🎉
😀👍
They would be much much weaker
why?
@@micahistory most of their land was inhabited by muslim peoples so they would constantly revolt like the balkans did in our timeline just on a greater scale and countries like regency of algiers wouldn’t have joined willingly
Happy birthday bro, you are no longer a teen😂 this is a weird and quite interesting concept, but the video is great man.
thanks, always nice to see you here!
Happy B-day
over a month later but thank you
@@micahistory will you make a sequel to ep 7
@@ML-ei7gb yeah working on it
25 hits really hard GL
what?
Bad topic for an "alternate history" topic especially when MILLIONS of non-muslims were slain just for being somebody else. 5+ million of my people died.
so you're butthurt over an empire that died a century ago so I am not allowed to make alternate history?
@@micahistory dont give him what he wants just let him say his piece and keep doing good alt videos
@@eternal_riftz8801 thanks bro
Okay and millions of Muslims were slain by peaceful orthodox christians what about that? Circassians, Chechens, Tatars, Balkan Muslims and more.