Real good review and I ran across a troublesome audio preamp stage when I use to work for Gates Radio Corp. At first I thought the noise/distortion was caused by a coupling capacitor and after replacing them I decided to replace the precision resistors to find the problem and that was exactly what I found was the problem, a bad resistor. Thanks for your review!
I believe carbon comps just made and then measured afterwards to figure out the value. I know this vid is 8 yrs old, but Kiwame and a bunch of other companies made nice resistors now. Thanks for the vid.
The granules in a carbon microphone were loosely packed, and as the diaphragm vibrated from speech or music, the total resistance of the carbon granules varied as they moved back-and-forth and vibrated, alternately compressing against and moving away from each other. In a carbon resistor however the carbon particles are baked together with some sort of binder and so in theory they shouldn't move too much. However as the resistor ages, and perhaps with exposure to heat and vibration or moisture being absorbed from the air, that binder (baked clay perhaps?) might develop micro cracks and cause the carbon granules to have bigger spaces between them or to shift position with temperature and vibration.
if you still have the old resistors. put them on each one. and put them on one side of the speaker. the other side is still the new resistor. then you turn the speaker switch. to hear the difference. i did this with the first sansui2000x. and each metal film resistor added changed the sound of the sansui2000x to become thinner. even the resistor that drains to the ground or the resistor that supplies power to the circuit also affects the sound thinned by the metal film. and i was very lucky to have kept all the resistors. and after listening to each resistor i saw the difference increase as i added them. after i finished, my amp sounded better than ever. i really regret going to audiokama to see the articles about rebuilding. and they also instructed to replace the resistors in the power path, i tried. and it lost a lot of the thickness of the midrange
in my opinion carbon film resistors will still be needed in the input signal path. because i just removed the new dale resistors bought on digikey from my sansui2000a. and i put back the old pair of carbon film resistors. the warm sound is back. the sound feels more open. the mids and trebles sound clearer and thicker. no longer compressed like the dale metal film resistors. i tested them by attaching one side as metal film and one side as carbon film. and turned the balance knob. to hear the difference between the 2 speakers.. really a little noise in exchange for great sound, wider soundstage is worth it
Unless you measure and graph the sound differences with a spectrum analyzer, your stated results are purely subjective, affected by confirmation bias and useless as evidence.
@@loughkb There are things that cannot be measured and graphed. For example, in a beauty pageant. Have you ever seen judges draw a face chart and measure the size and compare 3D images to determine whether a beauty queen is beautiful or not? Beauty and sound are similar. Not every chart makes you feel good. That is the charting disease of technicians. For example, when you listen to the sound of a presenter or you listen to the sound of a girl, you feel that her voice is sweet, and I say that you should draw a sound chart of her to prove it. That her voice is sweet. You can't do that with a chart. And it doesn't take too much time. Because of the nonsense of charts and graphs. Charts and measurements. Numbers are not always used in life. for example, when you go to eat at a restaurant, have you ever brought along a scale and a liquid testing tool of the soup to say that it is determined and proven that the soup is good or bad? It is crazy to talk about measuring, weighing and drawing graphs on things that are beautiful, interesting,... about enjoying the sound or taste of something. You should find a psychiatrist to treat your graph disease. And always carry an oscilloscope with you to measure the sound of your friends talking lol
@@loughkb it is sick to always say measure and draw graphs to prove in situations about hearing or beauty or sexiness....... conclusions about the nature of things. i hate people who always measure. you can also measure to conclude that your lovemaking with your wife or lover is good. and determine whether the sound of your wife moaning is good or bad. only stupid and mentally ill people say such things. if you are talking about frequency interference then it is possible. but i am talking about the feeling when hearing. and that feeling is different for everyone. you are stupid
@@kinhthien-os3yl That's right, subjective opinion cannot be measured or graffed because it is not based in anything tangible. However the energy across the audio frequency spectrum can be graphed and plotted and measured. The only way to truly guage your subjective observation would be with a randomized double-blind A to B comparison test with multiple iterations. And as in the past when that methodology is applied, you would probably find that you really cannot perceive a difference when you don't know ahead of time which is which.
im new to electronics , im getting into building my own guitar FX pedals . ive noticed a lot of people say you have to have old Carbon Comp resistors for some FX like old Fuzz Face or old Electra distortion Circuits. could this noise your measuring here be the reason guitar players like the Carbon Comp ? how will this noise show up in a audio signal passing through a carbon comp ,would it just end up sounding like static noise on top of the audio or would it have some other effect on the audio ?
You know this is a bogus experiment. You should measure the audio / noise ratio. What you are measuring now is that a wire of resistors pick up more high frequencies from the atmosphere then a smaller antenna, made of 1 resistor. Duh.
We use carbon potentiometers because of their smoothness when turning, if we talk about efficiency, the step type using dale resistors is the best. but in return you will lose the smooth turning feeling that you love.
Hi ! thank you very much indeed for the very informative and well done video. Have you tried any low noise metal resistor maybe ? anyway ... i think that parts selection especially in critical spots in a audio circuit can pay big dividends. In terms of lower noise and distortion of course. Thanks a lot again.
Also remembering that noise goes up as resistance goes up, it might be fun to repeat this experiment with a 1M ohm resistor and 10 x 100k ohm resistors. Maybe producing an even more obvious result. Eh. Could be fun. :)
@@charonme New metal film resistors and new carbon film resistors will lose the warm sound of old carbon film resistors. If you notice. old carbon film is much larger than new carbon film. Therefore, the flux is wider. So the sound force is stronger than new types. I compared the size after scraping off the outer layer. The old 1/4w carbon film has the same size as 1w of new carbon film. I think maybe that is the difference that creates strong sound. I also tried new carbon film, but the sound seems too weak compared to old carbon.
I changed out my carbons in an stereo old amp and it changed the sound of the amp, not for the better. It was much too bright and thin afterwards. Then I installed Amtrans carbons and pure magic. No audible noise or crackle and great tone.
when a current passes through without an audio signal. it will appear as in this video. but if you pass sound through it, it will appear as a high pitch. blending into the song your amp is playing. you will hear it as if it has been boosted in treble in the tone chart. and of course when you boost treble, the bass will be pushed back. typically when you replace the low noise -40db resistors of vishay dale. you will hear less treble but in return the bass is clearer. because the bass is no longer pushed back. i really like the sound of vishay military grade resistors. you can try it and you will see how great it is
Real good review and I ran across a troublesome audio preamp stage when I use to work for Gates Radio Corp. At first I thought
the noise/distortion was caused by a coupling capacitor and after replacing them I decided to replace the precision resistors
to find the problem and that was exactly what I found was the problem, a bad resistor. Thanks for your review!
I believe carbon comps just made and then measured afterwards to figure out the value. I know this vid is 8 yrs old, but Kiwame and a bunch of other companies made nice resistors now.
Thanks for the vid.
@6:01 does anyone notice the trace looking like the resistor that’s in circuit isn’t just noisy, but maybe kinda microphonic too?
I'd like to see results with ground lead loop as small as possible.
I remember an old carbon phone mike, they had a pretty audible noise, even without amplification.
The granules in a carbon microphone were loosely packed, and as the diaphragm vibrated from speech or music, the total resistance of the carbon granules varied as they moved back-and-forth and vibrated, alternately compressing against and moving away from each other. In a carbon resistor however the carbon particles are baked together with some sort of binder and so in theory they shouldn't move too much. However as the resistor ages, and perhaps with exposure to heat and vibration or moisture being absorbed from the air, that binder (baked clay perhaps?) might develop micro cracks and cause the carbon granules to have bigger spaces between them or to shift position with temperature and vibration.
@@goodun2974 Thanks for your answer. Thats very Interesting theory.
Great information. Thanks!
Yes there noisy i replaced all out of spec ones in my amp with wire wound and metal film. But did i loose that warm sound?
if you still have the old resistors. put them on each one. and put them on one side of the speaker. the other side is still the new resistor. then you turn the speaker switch. to hear the difference. i did this with the first sansui2000x. and each metal film resistor added changed the sound of the sansui2000x to become thinner. even the resistor that drains to the ground or the resistor that supplies power to the circuit also affects the sound thinned by the metal film. and i was very lucky to have kept all the resistors. and after listening to each resistor i saw the difference increase as i added them. after i finished, my amp sounded better than ever. i really regret going to audiokama to see the articles about rebuilding. and they also instructed to replace the resistors in the power path, i tried. and it lost a lot of the thickness of the midrange
@kinhthien-os3yl great idea will maybe replace one at a time with an original type or metal film cause not a coil of wire. See if sound changes
in my opinion carbon film resistors will still be needed in the input signal path. because i just removed the new dale resistors bought on digikey from my sansui2000a. and i put back the old pair of carbon film resistors. the warm sound is back. the sound feels more open. the mids and trebles sound clearer and thicker. no longer compressed like the dale metal film resistors. i tested them by attaching one side as metal film and one side as carbon film. and turned the balance knob. to hear the difference between the 2 speakers.. really a little noise in exchange for great sound, wider soundstage is worth it
Unless you measure and graph the sound differences with a spectrum analyzer, your stated results are purely subjective, affected by confirmation bias and useless as evidence.
@@loughkb There are things that cannot be measured and graphed. For example, in a beauty pageant. Have you ever seen judges draw a face chart and measure the size and compare 3D images to determine whether a beauty queen is beautiful or not? Beauty and sound are similar. Not every chart makes you feel good. That is the charting disease of technicians. For example, when you listen to the sound of a presenter or you listen to the sound of a girl, you feel that her voice is sweet, and I say that you should draw a sound chart of her to prove it. That her voice is sweet. You can't do that with a chart. And it doesn't take too much time. Because of the nonsense of charts and graphs. Charts and measurements. Numbers are not always used in life. for example, when you go to eat at a restaurant, have you ever brought along a scale and a liquid testing tool of the soup to say that it is determined and proven that the soup is good or bad? It is crazy to talk about measuring, weighing and drawing graphs on things that are beautiful, interesting,... about enjoying the sound or taste of something. You should find a psychiatrist to treat your graph disease. And always carry an oscilloscope with you to measure the sound of your friends talking lol
@@loughkb it is sick to always say measure and draw graphs to prove in situations about hearing or beauty or sexiness....... conclusions about the nature of things. i hate people who always measure. you can also measure to conclude that your lovemaking with your wife or lover is good. and determine whether the sound of your wife moaning is good or bad. only stupid and mentally ill people say such things. if you are talking about frequency interference then it is possible. but i am talking about the feeling when hearing. and that feeling is different for everyone. you are stupid
@@kinhthien-os3yl That's right, subjective opinion cannot be measured or graffed because it is not based in anything tangible.
However the energy across the audio frequency spectrum can be graphed and plotted and measured.
The only way to truly guage your subjective observation would be with a randomized double-blind A to B comparison test with multiple iterations. And as in the past when that methodology is applied, you would probably find that you really cannot perceive a difference when you don't know ahead of time which is which.
im new to electronics , im getting into building my own guitar FX pedals . ive noticed a lot of people say you have to have old Carbon Comp resistors for some FX like old Fuzz Face or old Electra distortion Circuits. could this noise your measuring here be the reason guitar players like the Carbon Comp ? how will this noise show up in a audio signal passing through a carbon comp ,would it just end up sounding like static noise on top of the audio or would it have some other effect on the audio ?
That would’ve been good to also show a comparison to let’s say a Vishay ultra low noise metal film resistor, just to give some visual perspective.
I would have liked to see vibration or heat applied to the resistor to see what that did to the noise spectrum.
@@goodun2974 The theory is that voltage noise is proportional to the square root of the temperature (in Kelvin).
You know this is a bogus experiment. You should measure the audio / noise ratio. What you are measuring now is that a wire of resistors pick up more high frequencies from the atmosphere then a smaller antenna, made of 1 resistor.
Duh.
Might require shielding around the resistors, or a Faraday cage?
How about Potentiometer almost all made by carbon film, how to avoid noise?
We use carbon potentiometers because of their smoothness when turning, if we talk about efficiency, the step type using dale resistors is the best. but in return you will lose the smooth turning feeling that you love.
Hi ! thank you very much indeed for the very informative and well done video. Have you tried any low noise metal resistor maybe ? anyway ... i think that parts selection especially in critical spots in a audio circuit can pay big dividends. In terms of lower noise and distortion of course. Thanks a lot again.
why didn't you show a spectrogram? and use a switch to switch between the samples you compare
Also remembering that noise goes up as resistance goes up, it might be fun to repeat this experiment with a 1M ohm resistor and 10 x 100k ohm resistors. Maybe producing an even more obvious result. Eh. Could be fun. :)
Can we detect this noise from an ordinary resistor???
You can't get more ordinary than common carbon resistors. I don't understand the question.
maybe a metal film resistor or even a newly bought modern carbon resistor
@@charonme New metal film resistors and new carbon film resistors will lose the warm sound of old carbon film resistors. If you notice. old carbon film is much larger than new carbon film. Therefore, the flux is wider. So the sound force is stronger than new types. I compared the size after scraping off the outer layer. The old 1/4w carbon film has the same size as 1w of new carbon film. I think maybe that is the difference that creates strong sound. I also tried new carbon film, but the sound seems too weak compared to old carbon.
I changed out my carbons in an stereo old amp and it changed the sound of the amp, not for the better. It was much too bright and thin afterwards. Then I installed Amtrans carbons and pure magic. No audible noise or crackle and great tone.
Really? Where's the best place to buy carbon resistors these days
when a current passes through without an audio signal. it will appear as in this video. but if you pass sound through it, it will appear as a high pitch. blending into the song your amp is playing. you will hear it as if it has been boosted in treble in the tone chart. and of course when you boost treble, the bass will be pushed back. typically when you replace the low noise -40db resistors of vishay dale. you will hear less treble but in return the bass is clearer. because the bass is no longer pushed back. i really like the sound of vishay military grade resistors. you can try it and you will see how great it is
This is bogus