Interestingly, Dvorak numbered this symphony "no. 3" throughout his life. What we know as "no. 1" - in C Minor ("The Bells of Zlonice") Dvorak had sent to a competition years earlier and the manuscript was never returned. Dvorak did not bother to reconstruct it. When he died in 1904, he believed he had left the world 8 symphonies and so numbered them. (There's a big "VIII" on the title page of the "New World".). Little did he know that in 1920, sixteen years after his death, the actual "no. 1," missing for some 50 years, would turn up in a second-hand book shop and would eventually be performed and take its place in the Dvorak symphonic canon.
The second movement has very probably been influenced by Wagner's Tannhauser. At least the initial instrumentation in the winds suggests so, but not only: the harmonic language also leans in that direction.
I have much to say about this symphony, which I consider as the beginning of his great middle period, during which he wrote what is in my opinion his strongest and most substantial works. I have known this symphony a long time. I have seen three live performances of it, and I originally learned it from the recording by Vaclav Neumann, which remains my ideal. Before continuing, I should mention that one time, upon examining a score of this work, I was surprised to see it peppered with all sorts of alternate and divergent readings on virtually every page. I've been told that the score of the 3rd Symphony has the same notes of this sort. As to the Wagnerian influence, it is my understanding that it is at its peak in the two preceding symphonies. There are still such influences in this work (embarrassingly so in the trio of the scherzo movement), but they are already on the decline, as Brahms is starting to rear his influence (look at the latter portion of the slow movement as an example). The slow movement is interesting in itself, aside from the Wagnerian suggestion in its opening bars. I am referring to the structure of the movement itself. It begins as a theme and variations, and after around the third or fourth variation Dvorak entirely abandons that scheme and goes off on his own. The only example of such a structure I can bring to mind is the slow movement of Beethoven's Violin Concerto, which I am certain that Dvorak was already familiar with. It makes one suppose that the influence of Beethoven in these great middle period works is fully as strong as that of Brahms. The slow movement of Dvorak's 6th Symphony is markedly Beethovenian. By that time, any influence of Wagner was totally gone. Most people would soundly disagree with me, but I am of the opinion that following the two works that marked the climax of his great middle period - the 7th Symphony and the 3rd Piano Trio, the quality of his work considerably lessened. The only subsequent works that I consider worthy of that great period are the Piano Quintet and the Mass. Regarding the five tone poems that Dvorak wrote at the very end of his life, I can easily imagine that Brahms might well have turned in his grave if he knew what his protégé had become. All of the above is my opinion, and others are perfectly free to disagree, but they first owe it to themselves to acquaint themselves with the 4th through 7th Symphonies, the Violin Concerto, Czech Suite, Symphonic Variations, Scherzo Capriccioso, Slavonic Rhapsodies, first set of Slavonic Dances, 1st Piano Quartet and 3rd Piano Trio - all indispensable Dvorak for those seeking to really know this composer.
Capolavoro del periodo giovanile di Dvorak.Una delle sue sinfonie che ammiro di più .Eccezionale direzione del compianto Kertesz con una stupenda LSO ed una remasterizzazione Decca semplicemente sublime. Ottimo inserimento
I'm listening to each of Dvorak's symphonies in numerical order. So far I have enjoyed what I have heard, but I understand that his genius comes more to the fore in some of the higher-numbered ones. There is no doubting the quality of his Stabat Mater, or his Cello Concerto (which Brahms himself wished he had written, so the story goes).
His quality improved in 1875 with Serenade for strings. It's an excellent piece almost like the 6th symphony. 4th symphony was written in 1874....Then he made Slavonic dances that are excellent in 1878. Violin concerto in 1879 that is excenlent. Probably because he wrote it for famous violinist Joachim....And people also like symphony number 3 written in 1873 and symphony number 5 written in 1875. But He started as an Opera composer. David Hurwitz says all his Operas are great. And as 19 years old he started with dances and polka... because he often heard it in village balls..... Maybe he was more inspired by folk... because his friend Janaček introduced him to Moravian folk music and Ukrainian dumka. In 1875, 1876 1877 he made Moravian duets, Janaček arranged them for choir. They are all great pieces. Brahms liked it. So it seems he probably used the folk also in his symphonies.
I wonder whether the 4th symphony was his final score... because the 9th has also a "sketch" version, with random sketches, then he improved the themes and tunes to make it more modern.
I feel like the bass lines, especially in the strings, do sound a bit too faint. Anyone else? The first movement's tempo has great drive, even if a bit stiff sometimes, and overall an amazing recording!
Wow! It's fascinating to hear some of the ideas in the second movement, notably melodies of the horn and harmonies with woodwinds, so eerily similar to the some ideas in his 5th. Clearly he established an idea in this one, then expanded on it in the 5th. The mark of a true educated musician!
If you believe the description, it's actually the fourth he wrote after becoming familiar with Wagner. The influence may well still be clear, but less so here than in the earlier ones.
Actually, Dvorak's third symphony also shows the Wagnerian influence, and again in the second movement. Which is rather funny when you think about it, as I believe this was the piece that first ignited Brahms's enthusiasm and support of Dvorak.
@@klop4228 The point is he liked and enjoyed Wagner, as well, Everybody says only how he was influenced by him. He said I am not Wagnerian but I like his music very much. He also liked other composers such as Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert, Berlioz, Brahms, Tchaikovsky. and unknown Czech composers. He reviewed their works and congratulated them on their technique, and that he appreciates them very much, even though their music wasn't played now or they are unknown. he as a music educator wanted to know the music techniques. He also was impressed in the '90s by Charpentier Opera and said this Charpentier is such a strange composer he has false notes everywhere. When a musician asked him How he would do it better Dvořak replied, No this way it's good. Also, Janáček was impressed by Charpentier Opera and took the score and found in it techniques he also used in his works, but for Dvořak it was something new. He became friends with Tchaikovsky in 1888 when Tchaikovsky did his tour in Prague and Europe. They spoke of music. Tchaikovsky later sent him a printed score of his 3d suite and Dvořak sent him a score of his 4th symphony. Tchaikovsky was a great fan of Mozart when growing up. Then Tchaikovsky was very impressed by Rimsky-Korsakov and send him letters about how much he liked his works and even said to him that he considers him as one of the greatest composers. It seems DVořak and Tchaikovsky had very similar attitudes about music and both helped people in need.
The best beginning in the first group of 4 so far. 40 minutes for a recording at brisk tempo makes me wonder what were his ideas on length .Wagner admirer I get but the music is nothing like Mahler's even the orchestration types of figures he uses are not familiar from closer to Beeth ,Schuman not Wagner do I see . this exposition really held my attention and all the material seemed to further the argument . The string parts must have given players trouble !
3rd movement: Pirate/captain adventures in stormy sea
Interestingly, Dvorak numbered this symphony "no. 3" throughout his life. What we know as "no. 1" - in C Minor ("The Bells of Zlonice") Dvorak had sent to a competition years earlier and the manuscript was never returned. Dvorak did not bother to reconstruct it. When he died in 1904, he believed he had left the world 8 symphonies and so numbered them. (There's a big "VIII" on the title page of the "New World".). Little did he know that in 1920, sixteen years after his death, the actual "no. 1," missing for some 50 years, would turn up in a second-hand book shop and would eventually be performed and take its place in the Dvorak symphonic canon.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
@@alaalfa8839 Very interesting too! What a touching history! Thank you for sharing it!
These Decca recordings of Dvorak's symphonies to my ears rank with the best analogue recordings ever made.
24:28 and 25:17 is the BEST.
YES, YES!
19:36 is such a powerful phrase
27:52
28:01
28:18
28:46
Does anyone know if 22:55 is a reference to someone else?
Regarding the instrumentation harmony and overall sound, it reminds me of the final seven measures of the third movement of Beethoven's 9th symphony.
This 3rd movement bumps around in my head FOR DAYS!! 😀
Je suis d'accord, ce troisième mouvement est spectaculaire, et merci à ce chef extraordinaire !
It’s wonderful isn’t it ! What a difference a conductor can make. Compare this recording with Kubelik for something much more lumpy.
I too have had the third movement ear worm wandering unfettered in my head for a week now...
Great composition!
One of the most underrated works of Classical music.
The second movement has very probably been influenced by Wagner's Tannhauser. At least the initial instrumentation in the winds suggests so, but not only: the harmonic language also leans in that direction.
Y el primer movimiento está influido por el poema de la montaña de Liszt
I love the Scherzo! Best part: 25:16
That melody could also be from a Verdi opera :)
@@maniak1768 You're right - Aida triumphal march...
I agree. It is G R E A T part.
SAME HERE. Glad so many people love it.
I have much to say about this symphony, which I consider as the beginning of his great middle period, during which he wrote what is in my opinion his strongest and most substantial works.
I have known this symphony a long time. I have seen three live performances of it, and I originally learned it from the recording by Vaclav Neumann, which remains my ideal.
Before continuing, I should mention that one time, upon examining a score of this work, I was surprised to see it peppered with all sorts of alternate and divergent readings on virtually every page. I've been told that the score of the 3rd Symphony has the same notes of this sort.
As to the Wagnerian influence, it is my understanding that it is at its peak in the two preceding symphonies. There are still such influences in this work (embarrassingly so in the trio of the scherzo movement), but they are already on the decline, as Brahms is starting to rear his influence (look at the latter portion of the slow movement as an example).
The slow movement is interesting in itself, aside from the Wagnerian suggestion in its opening bars. I am referring to the structure of the movement itself.
It begins as a theme and variations, and after around the third or fourth variation Dvorak entirely abandons that scheme and goes off on his own.
The only example of such a structure I can bring to mind is the slow movement of Beethoven's Violin Concerto, which I am certain that Dvorak was already familiar with. It makes one suppose that the influence of Beethoven in these great middle period works is fully as strong as that of Brahms. The slow movement of Dvorak's 6th Symphony is markedly Beethovenian. By that time, any influence of Wagner was totally gone.
Most people would soundly disagree with me, but I am of the opinion that following the two works that marked the climax of his great middle period - the 7th Symphony and the 3rd Piano Trio, the quality of his work considerably lessened. The only subsequent works that I consider worthy of that great period are the Piano Quintet and the Mass.
Regarding the five tone poems that Dvorak wrote at the very end of his life, I can easily imagine that Brahms might well have turned in his grave if he knew what his protégé had become.
All of the above is my opinion, and others are perfectly free to disagree, but they first owe it to themselves to acquaint themselves with the 4th through 7th Symphonies, the Violin Concerto, Czech Suite, Symphonic Variations, Scherzo Capriccioso, Slavonic Rhapsodies, first set of Slavonic Dances, 1st Piano Quartet and 3rd Piano Trio - all indispensable Dvorak for those seeking to really know this composer.
Capolavoro del periodo giovanile di Dvorak.Una delle sue sinfonie che ammiro di più .Eccezionale direzione del compianto Kertesz con una stupenda LSO ed una remasterizzazione Decca semplicemente sublime.
Ottimo inserimento
I'm listening to each of Dvorak's symphonies in numerical order. So far I have enjoyed what I have heard, but I understand that his genius comes more to the fore in some of the higher-numbered ones. There is no doubting the quality of his Stabat Mater, or his Cello Concerto (which Brahms himself wished he had written, so the story goes).
His quality improved in 1875 with Serenade for strings. It's an excellent piece almost like the 6th symphony. 4th symphony was written in 1874....Then he made Slavonic dances that are excellent in 1878. Violin concerto in 1879 that is excenlent. Probably because he wrote it for famous violinist Joachim....And people also like symphony number 3 written in 1873 and symphony number 5 written in 1875. But He started as an Opera composer. David Hurwitz says all his Operas are great. And as 19 years old he started with dances and polka... because he often heard it in village balls..... Maybe he was more inspired by folk... because his friend Janaček introduced him to Moravian folk music and Ukrainian dumka. In 1875, 1876 1877 he made Moravian duets, Janaček arranged them for choir. They are all great pieces. Brahms liked it. So it seems he probably used the folk also in his symphonies.
I wonder whether the 4th symphony was his final score... because the 9th has also a "sketch" version, with random sketches, then he improved the themes and tunes to make it more modern.
They keep getting better and better, and by the third he was already writing masterworks.
I feel like the bass lines, especially in the strings, do sound a bit too faint. Anyone else? The first movement's tempo has great drive, even if a bit stiff sometimes, and overall an amazing recording!
I love 💘 this
Performance.
I can ear the 9th Symphony by Beethoven
Bad AF oh my gosh
A glorious symphony of
A glorious symphony of
A glorious symphony of...?
Wow! It's fascinating to hear some of the ideas in the second movement, notably melodies of the horn and harmonies with woodwinds, so eerily similar to the some ideas in his 5th. Clearly he established an idea in this one, then expanded on it in the 5th. The mark of a true educated musician!
This is the first symphony Dvorak wrote after becoming acquainted with Wagner and the influence is especially clear in the second movement.
yes the Tannhäuser reference is pretty blatant.
If you believe the description, it's actually the fourth he wrote after becoming familiar with Wagner. The influence may well still be clear, but less so here than in the earlier ones.
Actually, Dvorak's third symphony also shows the Wagnerian influence, and again in the second movement. Which is rather funny when you think about it, as I believe this was the piece that first ignited Brahms's enthusiasm and support of Dvorak.
@@klop4228 The point is he liked and enjoyed Wagner, as well, Everybody says only how he was influenced by him. He said I am not Wagnerian but I like his music very much. He also liked other composers such as Mozart, Beethoven, Shubert, Berlioz, Brahms, Tchaikovsky. and unknown Czech composers. He reviewed their works and congratulated them on their technique, and that he appreciates them very much, even though their music wasn't played now or they are unknown. he as a music educator wanted to know the music techniques. He also was impressed in the '90s by Charpentier Opera and said this Charpentier is such a strange composer he has false notes everywhere. When a musician asked him How he would do it better Dvořak replied, No this way it's good. Also, Janáček was impressed by Charpentier Opera and took the score and found in it techniques he also used in his works, but for Dvořak it was something new. He became friends with Tchaikovsky in 1888 when Tchaikovsky did his tour in Prague and Europe. They spoke of music. Tchaikovsky later sent him a printed score of his 3d suite and Dvořak sent him a score of his 4th symphony. Tchaikovsky was a great fan of Mozart when growing up. Then Tchaikovsky was very impressed by Rimsky-Korsakov and send him letters about how much he liked his works and even said to him that he considers him as one of the greatest composers. It seems DVořak and Tchaikovsky had very similar attitudes about music and both helped people in need.
The sheet music is fun. I found myself pulling out some music that I haven't pulled out in a while.. I wonder if the sheet music inspired it. Thanks.
34:19 is really beautiful
Arguably one of my favorite classical music pieces
My favourite 3rd movement here
This is good
The best beginning in the first group of 4 so far. 40 minutes for a recording at brisk tempo makes me wonder what were his ideas on length .Wagner admirer I get but the music is nothing like Mahler's even the orchestration types of figures he uses are not familiar from closer to Beeth ,Schuman not Wagner do I see . this exposition really held my attention and all the material seemed to further the argument . The string parts must have given players trouble !
W 0 W I can see all the
beauty of Germany.
You do know Dvorak is Czech?