Tube Amp Sag Chapter 4" Solid State vs Tube Rectifiers

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 36

  • @CarlosAndresEsparza
    @CarlosAndresEsparza 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Excellent information Chris, thanks for sharing!.

  • @philshifley4731
    @philshifley4731 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The David Attenborough of audio techs!

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hahaha! I love it! I will wear that proud title with great pride

  • @lestelie4410
    @lestelie4410 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another great video. I am learning a little more each week. Thank you!

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for your kind words, Les. Great to have you back this week.

  • @kengevers8738
    @kengevers8738 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good video again. I have had no issues with a 68uf cap for my Champ or Tweed Deluxe builds. That said, 20uf filters for the screens etc... The amps just deliver that sweet sag. They honk ...
    It's a matter of trial and error, and the RCA manual is only a suggestion. I'm looking forward to the next video. Cheers

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the comment, Ken, Are you using 5Y3s? Yes, I agree that the RCA manual is a guide of recommendations and not a law book! I’m happy to hear that your rectifiers have survived a 68uF first cap. Which rectifier brand do you use?

    • @kengevers8738
      @kengevers8738 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theguitaramptech Nichicon caps. I had the opportunity to buy 150 of them for $25 some years ago. They are radials, and 105 deg Celsius. And yes, I do use them with 5y3 tubes. I've had some negative comments from techs about the use of the caps with respect to the tube manual. I respond with I have many 5y3's. Of course, I would rethink using those caps if I had a problem. They are very useful with a 5u4, but in a Tweed Deluxe I lose too many volts in the b+, but it really doesn't matter as you likely wouldn't hear the difference. I still have more than a 100 left. The good thing is I have many 5u4's too. lol 😆

    • @kengevers8738
      @kengevers8738 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sorry, I misunderstood the question. I use the New Sensor brand 5y3's. I'm going to try JJ 5y3's next. It isn't that I haven't any 20uf caps, but I have so many of 68uf caps, I want to use them up. lol

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kengevers8738 I like higher cap values personally, and generally use them on my personal amps, but I stick closer to design or RCA values for customer amps. Thanks for that info.

  • @nevillegoddard4966
    @nevillegoddard4966 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Good explanation Chris! I was thinking the dropping resistor would go in after the rectifier, & before the first filter capacitor. But you've installed it before the rectumfrier. Fair enough! I guess pre-rect is more suitable than after huh?
    Thinkin about it, before the rect would reduce the effective AC waveform reaching the rect., so it would have more of a valve-sag sound. Is that right?

  • @MaisonGRANCIE
    @MaisonGRANCIE 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks Chris for these useful info. How about hybrid rectifier sagging?

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thank you for your question. I’m not sure I fully understand your question. Are you asking if there can be rectifier sag with a hybrid rectifier? As you know, there are many different hybrid configurations with differing performance, and different rectifier tubes have different sag, but in general, where you have tube rectification you can have sag. If you want sag but with the reliability of silicon diodes, and no 5v current demand on your PT, add a series resistance to the diode rectifier. It won’t be exactly the same as tube sag, but near enough so that you probably won’t hear the difference.

  • @medabroud9855
    @medabroud9855 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks alllot ❤️✌️

  • @matthewlapczynski5012
    @matthewlapczynski5012 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How would you wire an NTC thermistor before the primary of the power transformer? And what values? Thank you kindly.

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  ปีที่แล้ว

      I would put the Thermistor between the On/Off switch and the Active of the Primary of the PT. They are designed to get HOT so be aware of location.

  • @edwardhannigan6324
    @edwardhannigan6324 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Chris, great video and a definite brain burn for a newbie..! I'll have to go over this a few times, but I've got the general idea...I think I'll have to sit up front in the class a bit more though..Thanks for sharing..Ed..uk..😀

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You crack me up, Ed. Good to see you at the front. No sign of Mr Smartarse this week 😂

    • @edwardhannigan6324
      @edwardhannigan6324 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@theguitaramptech 🤣🤣

  • @jasonc3a
    @jasonc3a 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    24:08 Could you not put an NTC thermistor in series with the capacitor to stop it from looking like a short circuit during startup?

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sure thing, Jay. I like the idea of using an NTC . I would be inclined to put it before the primary of the power transformer. As you know a NTC is basically controlled by heat. If the NTC is not allowed sufficient time to cool after power off, its protection is reduced. I like and use NTCs on my personal amps.

  • @petertimp5416
    @petertimp5416 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks again mate. Heard you reply on 'TTAVA' podcast. Have you seen uncle Doug and psonic amps!!

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hi Peter. Thanks for your kind words. I like Skip. He’s a real down to earth repair guy who sure knows his vintage amps. I was restoring a 1960 Bassman for a customer and was about to replace the 2-prong lead with a 3-prong. Cloth-covered or PVC cord? I couldn’t find it in any of my books so I called Skip. Without missing a beat he said “PVC”.
      As far as being the best “teacher” on the Internet, it is definitely Uncle Doug. If I can be as good as his pinky finger, I would be a very happy man. I am proud to have been a Patron supporter of Uncle Doug’s for several years. Great value education.
      Lyle at Psionic has a vast depth of knowledge and has been generous to share it with me. I subscribe to Lyle’s channel, too.
      Also, check out Brad the Guitologist. I admire his honesty when he gets his arse kicked by certain repairs. God knows we’ve all been there.
      ELAMS1894 has crazy good videos with unbelievable closeup footage and explanations.
      Also check out fellow Aussie, David Jones, on EEV Blog. Excellent learning to be had there too. His video on Opamps is the best.
      That should keep you busy for a while, Peter.

    • @petertimp5416
      @petertimp5416 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The Guitar Amp Tech Yeah all above are great! Haven't heard Elams1894, will check out. Thanks again and great to see you an Aussie doing such a great job

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@petertimp5416 Thank you Peter!

  • @zamwoodbury9773
    @zamwoodbury9773 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Chris, thanks for the excellent videos! I'm curious why you prefer the indirect cathode heating rectifiers to the direct. If you're using a tube rectifier wouldn't the point be to have voltage drop for a characteristic tube sound? Why not go with diode if the aim is snappiness? Or is the idea to get the best of both worlds? Thanks again for this great content!

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That is an excellent question, Zam. It's not so much a question of SAG. Direct/Indirect cathode heating is more of a matter of “startup time” of the rectifier tube. When you first turn on an amp there are possibly TWO current surges depending on how the Standby switch is wired. The first surge is the Transformer energising and the second surge is the Filter caps charging. These surges can be quite severe and look like a short for a few milliseconds. An indirect rectifier would minimise this surge effect much the same way s a NTC thermistor.

  • @bobtuiliga8691
    @bobtuiliga8691 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video thanks! However im still a little unclear as to how the filter cap size affects sag? I understand how they affect ripple (however that will be mostly cancelled by push-pull output stages anyway) but still don't see how they can affect DC voltage sag?

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Great question Bob and good observation about push-pull stages having inherent noise/ripple cancelling, (not unlike humbucking pickups taking advantage of cancellation of same noise in opposite phases.)
      Some people call those first filter capacitors a “reservoir” and that is an excellent descriptive term. At their highest elevation (voltage), most towns have a large reservoir (filter capacitor) of water that is continually topped up by pumps (rectifier & transformer) to meet the peak demands (loud bits) of the townfolk. Without that reservoir, the town folk will experience a trickle from the tap (sag in voltage) when they all shower at the same time (that’s a kinky town).
      Whether we hear sag from a drop in DC or a farty 100Hz ripple will largely depend on the type of rectifier, ie silicon diode, or tube.

  • @volkerlange7251
    @volkerlange7251 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you say tubes for the benefit of the American audience or is it tubes rather than valves in Australia? My electronics instructor was from South Africa and he said valves, so do Brits, I figured that antidipodeans would as well.

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You are exactly correct, Matthew. “Valve” is a much more descriptive term compared to the construction of a vacuum “tube”. Aussies use valve. I use both!

  • @LeoDowney-z7m
    @LeoDowney-z7m หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    IPhone to babe sag I wanted all kind of new guitar synthesizer send my futuristic metal rock you know etherical kind of stuffand I just when I'm from listening to Debbie metal to us just lots of classic rock and a hard rock and stuff that my parents did said that it was on a class rock radio when I was working all the time really going back more into class rock and hard rock more than metal and I found That tube amplifiers and analog pedals are the best sound you can get and when I see a 2 band I don't mean all these new tube they're almost all garbage even some of the ones that say Marshall, Fender, Vox . . I went out and I found an old 1960 tube amplifier that got better reviews than some of the more expensive amps including 2 that I owned at the time which were fairly popular cheap tube amplifiers the Fender super 60 with 6l6 power tubes one of the famous red knob amps. I also had a peavey tube king 50w. This harmony h303a. One power one pre amp. One rectifier tube. . I never had sag before with those other amplifiers but this was a null1962 the parts in it were not Chinese circuit boards this was old school stuffum I've never seen anything like that the stuff that was in it very old components and a Jensen speaker made in Chicago. . I discovered that when I cranked up the amp but mainly more importantly when I cranked up all of my volume knobs on my instruments and then I had an analog overdrive pedal it was an old boss turbo overdrive totally analog ways like 20 pounds you've knows just a little boss pedal. I discovered that when I cranked up the amp but mainly more importantly when I cranked up all of my volume knobs on my instruments and then I had an analog overdrive pedal it was an old boss Turbo overdrive totally analog ways like 20 pounds even though it's just a little boss pedal . So once everything was cranked up the sag when completely f****** crazy it was like a crazy ethical sound you you don't get out of guitars anymore right go and check out the AT&T minute version of indigotta-devita by Iron butterfly. Same trick. But w a mosrite fuzz tone. . You can make all sorts of crazy sounds out of these amps creating weird landscapes if you listen to that 18 Minute version from Iron Butterfly you're Here you hear 2 Different types of guitar solos 1's got a wap puddle it's Clean it's A Little More distorted The Other does even sound like a guitar sounds like a brooding demonand it is Insane is creepy sounded and it is so Different. As there's a lot of regular parts of the song I mean it's like a bus saw not a guitar that you hear going through most of those parts I Mean It's Insane Some Of It is a technique most of it is guitar equipment you cannot Find any More Push to the maximum where it starts to Really CHANGE and Make Yourself sound Crazy and I have found that this is the song I've been looking for. Not just the sag but the many different versions of twist and turns over it and the organic weird different sounds and things you can get out of the old amplifiers that you k and not absolutely not get out of the nuclear amplifiers I know that for a long time I used to buy some Motorola harmonics pedals when I had a transistor amp I set them back as I didn't like the way they sounded come to find out those are analog puddles and owners are the best if you have a real analog tube amplifier. At the same time all those boss pedals almost all of them are digital garbage don't go with digital goal with analog anytime you can and this also includes with synthesizers I found that there's some pedals out there like that like the old EHX Microsoft that just can give you crazy psychedelic scream sounds out of those old amplifiers unfucking believable sounds come from the old amplifiers. And for my first few years of playing I avoided them because I thought I would sound like old and s***** like some of the needles really old stuff where it sounds like they're playing Plastic guitars you know. And now I know for sure without a doubt the best amps I have ever played were more tubed than anything else in all of them Have tube rectifiers other than some marshals and a few other amplifiers somehow they were able to maintain some of their tube sound but I have played all sorts of different brands over the last couple of years of all These newer tube amplifiers even ones from big name brands Sound like garbage. If people want to because they think that transistor sucks then why aren't they recognizing that you should get a 2 abrupt fire as well I mean you'll get a little bit more stability are you sure that's what you want because I found less stability and morqueos was exactly what I was needing exactly what I wanted to go for I didn't want to sound the same all the time and when you play through this kind of equipment the actual sound of your guitar your instrument comes through you can hear the real tone in your guitar if you're playing just crazy transistor amplifiers with digital boss puddles or any of these digital amplifiers it's just s***** samples I used to have 2 keyboards 1 is full of copied sounds that are basically just s***** samples and the other one is analog synthesizer and all the analog said the seizers at the first keyboard copy. It's all like absolute trash from a crossroom or over a phone you might think that it's the same sound that I would be using if I was playing keyboard part I've been playing. The song jumpgo to learn benhill and jumptry it on a digital keyboard with the synthesizer and then try on an analog synthesizer if you have eardrums and a brain you are gonna go for the analog sound every time some people get tired and bored of the old sounds they want to look into new sounds I've heard a lot of the digital cookie keyboards and the hybrid keyboards and I don't hear anything good we bought my exold lady a $1000 Roland Juno synthesizer and it said they could do all these things it sounded great when we watched the videos but when she got it she was I'm not happy with it she did not feel that the sounds were that great and I had a little tiny corg analog and she said that sounds so much better. We sent that roll and Juno back and then we looked around and we found out there was a cheaper rolling synthesize your that was like 700 bucks at they just come out. You can tell just by looking on top of the thing that it was what you're looking for as a real synthesizer even though it was only a couple 100 bucks and we got one that somebody boughtnew put not even barely a scratch on it because they only had it for a couple of weeks like 2 weeks or 3 weeks before they turned around and sold it for $400. Etc. Plus a better warranty. A must when buying electronics. Extended warranty, do it . Please be wise. . I was actually p***** because it was like $400 for a new one and let's go buy new 1 I asked several different people If they came with an adapter one guy said yeah it does next guy said no it doesn't I said yeah I think so so I sent enough money in for the synthesizer plus tax plus a few extra bucks and then just to find out that I did have to buy the adapter and so Then I didn't have enoughso Then I look around and look around and end up having to bite a used 1 from another state which I did not Want To Do I do not Want To buy a synthesizer keyboard that people have been beating on and touching on I Want To buy a new 14 a reason okay this 1's like new okay Then there's no Real great warranty because Somebody Else's own for a couple of months so I paid for an extended warranty but what p***** me off is once I got my keyboardthere was no instruction books I meanit's a Good Thing I had 1 from a previous model that keyboard I bought before my ex took it split up so I already had a book to thank God for that partbecause it's extremely complex even for a little KORG synthesizer I Mean. Synthesis true truly can be Difficult.

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks for sharing your experience, Leo

  • @ascgazz
    @ascgazz 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Any chance of a simple explanation? 😂😂😂 how many videos??

    • @theguitaramptech
      @theguitaramptech  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      HAHAHAHA! Could you imagine if I put all those parts in one video? OMG! People would be topping themselves all over the world...even me! The reason I offered so my answers, is that most people who don't know shit about amps or electronics just say its "capacitors" or "rectifiers".
      My advice? One day you will have a sleepless night, tossing and turning but sleep won't come. Grab your phone and start watching the SAG series again. I guarantee you will be asleep by the end of Part One.