Y'know, you say that, but you didn't have a cannon ball land into your living room from over a mile away. LOL! Also, you didn't have your facial hair burned off, like Adam, in one of the earliest episodes of the show.
I had no idea what you were talking about until I got the first clip. I was thinking that the producers were having nightmares of Shad and Tyranth reviewing their show lmao.
@@brentharlow3559 It's what you get if you give cameras and a budget to 3rd graders arguing on the playground over who would win. And that's what makes it fun.
You guys should do your own forged in fire where contestants from all over the world send you weapons, and then you test their weapon safely, and with tests more relevant to the purpose of the weapon.
Damn, that would be cool! I follow the Fan showdown on Major Hardware where he test PC fans designed by viewers, and a 3D printing channel I follow has an ongoing competition to create the best viewer designed part cooling nozzle. Granted, those are just 3D files that are a bit easier to send from all over the planet than swords or other weapons.. But I do have some leaf springs and an intention to make a forge, so color me interested 😅.
This reminds me of a classic internet video where an infomercial was selling some cheap ass swords. The sales man was saying that the blades were unbreakable and, upon striking the table three times, the blade snapped and cut him.
Yeah, that was the QVC late night “sword and knife” show. Scary stuff, and despite what Shad and Tyranth said about mass produced swords, that was more of a mass produced stainless steel Sword Shaped Object like almost all of what was sold on that program.
I remember watching that when it happened, it was like the first six to eight ish inches of the blade if memory serves and it stabbed right into his bicep, deep enough that the second presenter was like "we're gonna need an ambulance here." meanwhile dude that effectively stabbed himself was going on about "oh, I'm hit, I'm hit good." every time he smacked that thing on the solid maple butcher block counter I was cringing, waiting for it to snap.
"Dry bone is closer to rock, and that can REALLY mess up blades." So in medieval fantasy games where bladed weapons suck against reanimated skeletons (but not against zombies,) and you're supposed to use bludgeoning weapons against the skellies, that acutally makes a lot more scientific sense than probably even the game designers realize?
Well you're hitting a porous rock made from calcium, so yes a Hammer or an Axe is more effective (and less likely to break) than a blade. A blade is made to sever flesh muscles and vessels to stop and end your foe, neither is present on a skeleton. Don't know if the game designers had that in mind or just following established tropes, but then many enthusiastic game designers are huge nerds which tent to overthink details and go into rabbitholes for research.
The latest seasons you can notice the judges started wearing body armor and gloves for the tests where they expect the weapons to fail catastrophically. But then watching the latest latest one they reverted to not wearing safety gear. But then the seasons and episodes are recorded and shown out of order some times.
I think that most of the decisions that are made with regard to safety and the type of tests chosen are driven by the fact that the show is for entertainment first and foremost. So they try to address safety by having things like having medics on set rather than by wearing safety equipment and using barriers etc. that would interfere with the visuals. The tests are also chosen to go with the theme of the episode rather than to be the ideal test to safely evaluate the blade's performance. Also worth mentioning that many of the blade failures are due to constraints that are imposed on the smiths (time, materials, techniques etc.) to keep things interesting and up the entertainment value. Not defending their decisions, just giving what I think is their rationale.
@@dantegallardo1974 an example of ppe improving is the Attila episode (shown in this video where the sword breaks attempting to chop through a horse skull) vs the teneg takoba episode much later, where a "anti-cut sleeve" is present during the stress test on Dave Baker. I actually found an even better example, with the nimcha episode (I hope I spelled that right) showing Ben Abbott wearing a collar, and what appears to be anti cut vest and sleeves during the strength test.
Yes, and they do a visual inspection of the weapons before and after every test, there were multiple instances where they didn't test one at all because they found it too dangerous.
@@TigerJaeger131 Heck, one person got DQed... because despite inspecting it before testing... during testing the judge(J) had his hand get hurt by the weapon's grip, not even a fail, just the grip was poorly built and had a flaw in it.
Dave Baker is a historical swordsmith, Doug Marcaida is an edged weapon combat specialist and a bladesmith, J. Neilson is a Mastersmith in the American Blade Society, and Ben Abbott is a Bladesmith. They typically wear more PPE these days, usually a flak vest under a shirt, but they should be using more PPE. Dave typically smiths the weapon that they show the contestants that they will need to build.
THIS, I wanted to yell at them because they've obviously done no research on the judges or the show itself. Also they talk like they're expert bladesmiths and are experienced with metallergy. IMO Shad has had some REALLY moronic takes on stuff he feels is wrong
@@thejackofalldans786 Shad is a Brit who likes to talk.....a LOT and acts like he's an expert. I've seen their "Weapons testing" videos and I'm sorry to say but these two have no idea what they're talking about.
In fairness to the scythe episode, it was the Halloween special. And I know they didn't have barriers up in the first few seasons because I remember a knife test where the blade snapped at the tang and slid all the way across the floor to the guy who made it. I think they did have a serious injury too, I think Doug Marcaida cut his hand really badly when a hilt failed in one episode. And he still doesn't wear gloves.
Ya but If a fencer can even be stabbed though his armor having no to little armor is just "sign a waver to not sue." For the testers levels of dangerous.
They also have the footage of how the weapon is made. Unlike shad to whom every sword is a blackbox, they can see whether there might be something wrong with the heat treat, simply by seeing how they quench went.
@@loganshaw4527 And then you have that one saber test from one of the earlier shows, where the cutlass slit off the dumies west, giving both weapons the non-lethal result
You would think a show the size of Forged in Fire would have an emphasis on safety when testing things. Whoever did insurance for them would probably demand that sort of thing to help prevent injuries so the insurance company doesn't have to pay it. Someone could get seriously injured doing that sort of stuff.
Nah, insurance company is probably laughing while hoping they don't get reasonable protective gear. They probably have in the contract that FiF needs to take precautions to protect themselves and others that if they don't follow then insurance won't pay.
@@mrkeller8000 The production company would cover their asses even if the show didn't, and not let the insurance pull that scam. more likely they are just paying higher premiums and trusting the shows "experts" for safety opinions without double checking them.
That delamination was like a version of a skill-tree for Tyranth: “New fear unlocked! Lvl 10. Delam.” Also, nice haircut, Tyranth! Very knightly/noble. :)
He generally works with modern steel and Delam is so rare in modern steel that a Factory I once worked in had a half finished part hung up on the wall because the steel delaminated It was the only one that had done so in over 50 years
Still, when I see a sword test, I don't want to see a hipster knife expert take a swing, I want to see a hema trained knight in full armor take that swing. They could've easily combined safety with what looks good on camera. Shad's armor looks good on camera, though for a tv production and to appeal to a broader audience I would recommend full plate for FIF. Also I think that showing the judges take proper safety measures would make the viewer more aware that these are dangerous weapons, which could increase the show's appeal. Robot Wars for example really drove home the point how dangerous and destructive the robots are by showing off how strong that cage is.
@@BunjiKugashira42 How would someone who never fully swung a sword without gloves, know whether the handle is made well or not? It's NOT a sword test, like what Shad and co do, where you look at what the bought sword can do. It's only about what the swords can take, to see which balcksmith did the better job. In that circumstance its BETTER to have a brute, than someone who is trained to do their darndest so the weapon doesn't break.
I *wholeheartedly* agree that the lack of safety precautions in Forged in Fire in inexcusable, even if I like the show; with it being how I first found out about a lot of historical weapons that I might've never heard of otherwise.
Yes do more of these. The durability tests where most of these blades fail is after the sharpness test where the one judge says "It will kill". So you know the blade can kill but you're still not taking safety precautions.
The judges injure themselves smashing knives and swords into inappropriately hard objects. One guy broke his wrist smashing a heavy basket hilt word into ICE
Regarding the scythe test, the thing that got me was the judge swinging a not very long object towards the fixed, sharp blade. Sure, you're not likely to aim badly enough that your lop off your own hand, but what if you slip? What if the blade dislodges after the first hit and falls towards you as you're swinging with all your might? I just imagine him judging the distance wrong and slamming his hand full force into that blade 😬
According to ex-host Wil Wilson, the room is super hot due to all of the forging they are doing for hours, I wouldn't want to be in already hot armor just to do the testing for 10 minutes.
@@insiainutorrt259 Dog, that wasn't a complete sentence. but yes, they do have fans/AC running but it's not enough to keep the room cold when several forges are running at the same time for long periods.
Except in scenarios like this you actually sign away your right to sue so long as you're acting within the parameters agreed upon It's the same as signing any other liability waiver
@AllanTidgwell waivers only work when it's just negligence. Waivers by law cannot protect against gross negligence. And I don't see a world where this isn't gross negligence.
Another awesome video guys. The judges on forged in fire have been injured a few times carrying out the tests. The low collar gloves they sometimes wear look similar to the low collar ones I wear in the summer on my motorcycle and when I test out a new whip which are kangaroo leather lined with Kevlar. One thing that I do find interesting about them testing blades is why would they not even wear a box as a minimum! Surely that would be a priority 😂
All of the episodes where Doug is sporting an injury and brings his brother out to do the tests may be from testing blades in episodes that were never aired.
Shows a basic evel of professionalism of wearing safety gear aswell. If they cant follow basic, they shouldnt bother calling themselves professionals if they cant do basic safety.
I have not seen such a simple title, that some may understandably consider to be clickbait, be so fitting of a video in a bit. I haven't watched the show in a long time, so I hope that they've finally upgraded their safety protocols, but they really should have had much better protection a long time ago.
One of my favorite things about FiF is that instead of being greedy, they put the older seasons up for free on TH-cam. You can just watch full episodes on their official channel.
Mine too. Every time I watch it though I think about how, what is essentially a game show, is probably the most historically relevant show on the History channel.
@@kurokaze511 Absolutely! I miss the days when the History Channel and the Discovery Channel served primarily to educational content instead of reality tv and conspiracy theories. I want to watch Dirty Jobs, or Myth Busters. I biopic about the daily lives of crab fishermen, or a documentary about space, or history, or How It's Made. I don't care if aliens are hiring the ghost mafia to possess the Chupicabra to hunt down Bigfoot.
If I got 50¢ for every math test, I've failed. I would have $7.20 by now. What did Chuck Norris do when his parachute failed to open? Brought it back for a refund.
@@rykehuss3435 Spoke to a chap that was a parachute packer for the RAF, and they told the same basic joke with different framing. They gave the parachutes to the pilots with a guarantee and that if they didn’t work you should bring them back. Bit of gallows humour from WW2 for ya.
I've seen alot of these and i also think it's interesting to just watch a lot of the times where thye judged the weapon poorly in it's cutting potential, when the edge alignment was absolutely HORRENDOUS by the guy using it. As well as some breaks too, legit not the fault of the blade at all, just pure terrible edge alignment when using it, i've seen them hit with the flad side of the blade dead on
They do that a LOT, the judges claim to be expert weapon forgers and users, but none seem to know how to align a blade or have good grips. And some of the tests go against the very nature of the weapons they are making which directly contributes to poor weapons, I feel like they are trying to do a bad job to get failures to happen, because no one can miss 4 times in a row and hit with the side of a katana, a blade that wants to align with the strike.
One of the most common criticisms you see from the judges is poorly designed and/or executed handles (or hilts) that make it difficult to grasp and index to keep the blade properly aligned. So it may be that at least some of the problems with edge alignment are at least partially due to problems with the weapon.
The blade that almost decapitated J on Forged in Fire at 6:16 was made by a blade hobbyist, in a coal pit dug in the ground and using the most rudimentary of tools. There was also not the most ideal conditions to forge and inspect a blade. It was doomed to fail, and the judges knew this, though failed to take further necessary safety measures.
I feel like they are trying to get failures on camera, they will purposefully misalign strikes to hit the flats just to damage blades, or hit away from the percussion point, or aim for target supports in their hits. And some of the forging is done with rules or materials that just don't make sense for the object which virtually guarantees a failure.
thanks for making my blade your videos thumbnail shad if you slow it down he cut thru the horse skull and into the steel behind it ypu can see the sparks
This is actually pretty close to the truth. Basically the only thing they can't treat on site is congenital/heat issues. But there is like 5+ emergency medics on the ground with an ambulance standing by at all times.
I flinch every time I watch them test a sword on that show. I don't test swords for a living, but even I'm like: "what if the flying chunk of sharpened steel hits you in a spot other than the safety glasses? For that matter, what if it hits the safety glasses?!"
Those aren't even high end safety glasses, they would fail if you were using them on a government site. Those are for wood splinters while nailing, not for things like grinders or demolition, which is a lot closer to what they are HOPING to happen on tests.
Safety glasses are rates for ballistic shrapnel, AKA small bits of sharp metal flying very fast like hot metal slag flaking off of a piece when you are using an angle grinder and it would otherwise hit you in the eye but the glasses either bounce it off or catch it. Ask me how I know lol.
I actually know the smith that made that scythe. He’s actually a really good knife and sword smith, wonderful guy to talk to and see how he works. Our local theatre was also able to do a public viewing of the episode when it aired. Good memories that
On Forged In Fire, the judges are: a master smith, a *very* experienced smith (probably close to being able to test to master), a smith who is a historical weapons re-creation specialist, and an Air Force veteran Filipino martial artist who is a bladed weapons expert. I agree with both of you that they should definitely being wearing more protection. And yes, the show is still in production.
I can't watch "Forged in Fire" because the sheer lack of any safety measures drives me nuts. I very much prefer watching Mythbusters where they did implement any safety measures they could think of and they still had sometimes some unforseen accidents.
Knife Smith her. First ice is more like hitting a antler or stone, soft wood is quit harmless and hard wood is just a bit more stress for the blade. Second, in three days turning out a blade is extreme fast. I make 10 knives in a month and that is fast. It's honestly very impressive that not more blades brake in these tests. Third and last, normally quality control on large blades is normaly quit easy. Mainly you can see and hear it, if a sword, knive etc. has fractures. Under normal conditions, you woud make a new one if there is the hint of having a fracture in the blade. But in three days, you might not have the time to start over. So you grind it out, weld it or skip the control and shot from the hip. Oh if you never hardened a big blade bevor, you are in real dark waters. I made 10 sword blades, my first 5 didn't make it , my 6,7 had become to hard and the last two are quite good. PS: They shoud wear better protection for sure.
If you guys know Darrell Markewitz from Wareham forge in Canada, he has some good stories from when he was scouted by FIF as a potential judge for the show.
the announcer who left was a former navy seal.. he most likely had been wanting safety gear after the first knife failure, and quiet .. he left early on too.. the judges have all changed out also, the where always out for "hand/arm problems" then leave the show shortly after.. the studio probably has them sign a league or waiver before getting hired..
Left early on? He hosted the show for 7 of its 8 seasons..... Also only one of the judges have left the show which was due to a hand injury, he returned 8 episodes later. You may be thinking of the guest judge Ben Abbot who replaced the judges when they are busy shooting the "beat the judges episodes". Are you just making things up for a youtube comment?
I've always been amazed at how unsafe they are. Yes, they are still airing but sporadically with special episodes. One episode a couple weeks ago was teams building siege weapons.
Yeah, Forged In Fire seemed cool at first but lost my interest fairly quickly with some of their ridiculousness. I mean, if a layman like me can spot a bunch of mistakes it's not a good thing. Edit: It was a really cool concept for a show though. It was just the execution that sometimes left a bit to be desired.
I used to watch forged in fire before I found your channel and back then it never occurred to me the lack of safety but I remember watching your barrel destruction video and it making me want to watch an episode of forged in fire and immediately when they started testing I asked myself why aren't they using protective equipment it blew my mind that before it never crossed my mind but it just became such common knowledge for me after watching this channel that like no matter your confidence in your self or the weapon wear the proper gear
I would think as experts they wouldn't want to encourage amateurs to be unsafe. Show the danger, show the precautions, and be diligent like a professional.
Wil Willis was the host from seasons 1-7 and he's done in depth interviews on why he left. Its a good watch and helps explain why the show does some of the things it does and does not do.
From what I know about the judges, all of them are very qualified to be making these judgments. The medieval Santa Claus looking dude is a historical recreation specialist. He makes replicas for a living aside from the show
If they were qualified, they wouldn't do these tests without protection. Real experts know the danger and always advocate for protective gear. Only 'cool and tough guys', who have no clue, will do stuff like this without getting nervous.
In addition in Filipino martial arts they use swords like the Kris so Doug is well versed with how to use a sword. The thing with these tests is they are purposely testing the swords to their limit. So some of them are over the top but sometimes this is the only way to separate swords that are well-crafted from each other. Otherwise if you just cut pigs all day long you don't learn very much if both swords are well made.
@@m.h.6470 That's fair I do think that there is more protective equipment around. They just shoot it so that you can't see it. I am sure that they have glass shields for the crew. The people testing should be wearing more protective equipment though you're right
I never watched that show before, but I can see why you might want to see whether a sword can withstand a specific type of abuse, but it seems like there are purposely going at it with the intent to break them,.. and sometimes without even wearing any type of precaution or protective wear beyond a tie shirt, pants and the type of safely glass that you might use while hammering finishing nails.
I think the reason that people don't criticize Forged in Fire so much because a lot of us see it once, shake our heads, and never watch again. I think it has more appeal with a more casual audience than sword nerds like us.
@@noctisocculta4820 What fake drama, at best you get "oh no, joe's blade broke can he forge another in time"? 20 seconds of introducing the contestants?
18:08 - I have criticized Forged in Fire in the past, and I will gladly continue to do so. My criticisms mainly had to do with historical inaccuracies in their descriptions of weapons, poor edge alignment, and unfair destructive tests, that seem like it could easily break any blade, regardless of steel quality, enough to make me question whether there is any survivability. You guys talking about safety is something I had not considered and is a totally valid concern.
They probably think the safety gear detracts from the visual appeal of the show. And they also might think it makes the show more exciting but gee I'd kinda hope they aren't of that mindset.
For future knowledge, the guy with the jeans, cowboy hat, and cool beard is actually a historical weapons expert and also have made props/consulted about historical accuracy of weapons for movies.
You have to remember this is a dramatized show as well. I'm not saying the weapon fails are on purpose, but they film it so that you think everyone could be in danger, when in fact the cast, contestants and film crew probably are well protected. The judges probably decline to wear the type of gear you suggest as well.
They should be wearing a lot more protection for sure than in these clips there should also be barriers against flying pieces of broken blades. The are not complete morons though. They usually visually check the blade for any visual dangers that would deem the blade unsafe from the start. If the feel like they would get injured by swinging the weapon they give it a vote of no confidence and the blade is not tested at all. So, there are some safety precautions, just not enough of them.
Shad has a pretty major point here. Because yes they do have like full medical teams on set and stuff, but they have actually had an injury, and there were a bunch of episodes where Doug (The "It will KEEL" guy) had to watch a student of his do the tests he usually would instead because his hand got messed up during a failed test. And they really should be wearing more safety gear, yeah. I know they at least sometimes use barricades and stuff in the tests but not often and usually it's more based on the test, like launching spears out of air cannons. A chunk of me does wonder if they avoid some of the PPE they should use because in theory it could interfere with the tests or depending, cover injuries, say they wear a brigandine and don't notice a cut because the armor hides it, but all the same they should maybe find a happy compromise here.
Doug is a kali martial artist, his style focuses on weapon based combat with a broad variety of weapons. That said, it gets pretty obvious when he's using a weapon outside his wheelhouse... But he does have experience broadly with most *types* of weapons.
Both J. Neilson and Dave Baker are sword experts. J. Neilson also is a master smith in the American Bladesmith Society. Also, in the early seasons they didn't wear much protection but they did wear vests under the shirts. After about season 4 they started wearing more protective gear. And yes, they have had minor injuries, but never any serious ones. Also, they do have medics right there in the studio. Edit: I will not be responding to any idiot claiming they are not experts. You have the sum of human knowledge at your fingertips, USE IT. It is VERY simple to do some research before you open your idiotic mouth.
Yeah and I'm sure the insurance company makes them have medics on staff as that's standard procedure for a virtually any TV show with any sort of stunt work. Basically, that isn't a special consideration that what they're doing and how they're doing it is especially dangerous. These guys may technically have the credentials to be considered an expert, but I know an awful lot of PhD's who are complete morons and a lot of people with certifications in the industry that I work in that know absolutely nothing about the topic. In the end, these "experts" agreed to do this show with these conditions for money over the safety of themselves and everyone else on set. They may never have a serious injury. Even if they do, we're likely to never hear about it since that episode would likely never be aired and they would simply have different judges if the show continued. All it would take is a single shard to come back at a bad angle to the neck or face and they aren't going to have a good day.
@@tarrickmerdev2324 Oh I'm not saying it's a good idea to not have more protection. In my mind, it is never a bad idea to have as much protection as possible. But yes, they actually are sword experts, at least Dave and J. J has over 20 years of smithing experience as well. Both have tons of knowledge about the craft and about using the weapons as well. But yes, they should have more protections and they did increase the amount of protections worn around the 4th season or so.
Thank you. Context is super important. They also have a lot of cuts where you might assume things are fairly close like the smiths watching but they are actually far away. It doesn't excuse the lack of protection, but there is much less danger than what the show is generally portraying because it's standard tv with standard tv tactics which means only showing the most "Thrilling" parts.
@@sidroberts7960 Oh, that makes it even more sad. They must be deliberately doing poor alignment strikes, poor targeting, and poor grips then to encourage failures for the sake of the show instead of doing good strikes for the good of the craft.
10:00 That failure was because the blade was made from a type of chain that was forge welded, problem was, the contestant put the chain in the forge, let it heat up then set it aside allowing forge scale to build up and when they continued working on it, they left the forge scale on the metal.
The only major fail I remember seeing back when I watched the show was with claymores. They swung them at a full pig carcass. The first one bent right around it, and the second one shattered. They asked the guy with the bent sword to try to straighten it out for another test, which he did. I think that guy lost, though, by the reasoning that they hear a lot of old stories about broken blades, but never about bent ones.
apart from health and safety fails my main issue with that program was the judges obsession with breaking the blades though ridiculous tests and striking on objects excessively and bending them at extreme angles until they break. pig corpse or fish or dummy with (or without) light armor is one thing but striking on wood, dry bones and plate armor just for the sake of breaking the forged blade seems counterintuitive.
I think I can count on my left hand the amount of contestants that understand metalurgy it is kind of understandable that tempering on set is gonna be difficult, the long builds shouldn't have bad tempering.
Well keep in mind for the long builds they get sent home to their own forges and about half of them don't have the equipment to make anything bigger than a knife. So I think a lot of those fails are do to ad hoc quenching tubs and trying to heat a big chunk of steel in a tiny furnace and keep it consistent.
Bungie cord is not necessarily made to be cut resistant, more shock and impact resistant. Granted there is cut resistant bungie cord but is that what they used unknown.
Although i agree with some of the points you made, there are few points from a Smith's standpoint that I don't think got taken into your consideration, or isn't made explicitly clear by the show: 1.) The judges: Doug Marcaida is a renowned Kali martial artist, and is also well versed in the use of all manner of bladed weapons. J.Neilson is an ABS master smith, who does not exclusively do knives. David Baker is a Weapons historian and specializes in medieval European Weapon Recreation. 2.)The nature of the Show: you guys have a TH-cam channel, and are not American. Forged in Fire is an American TV show not aimed specifically at Smiths or enthusiasts, but to the layman. American TV shows are always hyped up with 2 things: drama and explosions. There are things that are purposefully exaggerated, rigged or omitted for the Drama of it all. 3.) our way vs. their way: your tests are conducted on mass manufactured swords on open air conditions, which is fine for you guys. They are more beholden to fire safety requirements and restrictions based on their location. these include metal walls, concrete flooring, industrial lighting (all of which aren't great for reducing the heat generated in a relatively small warehouse) add to that 20-50 people who exhale hot breath continuously, 4 gas forges running at about 900° c each, the residual heat from said forges and heat conducted by all the metal in their vicinity, and 3-4 spotlights used per Smith for optimal lighting of the steel and you have a pretty toasty situation. Wearing gambeson, doublet or any form of padding while swinging a bit of steel would make someone drop from heat exhaustion. Thus, the minimal protection (which still meets the minimal PPE requirements, and apparently includes a flak vest underneath the shirt). Also factor in the fact that these judges handle/make/spar with sharp edged weapons on a daily basis, and seeing as two are smiths, they both probably have the "duct tape is my Med kit" mentality most smiths have. 4).the Showrunners: as mentioned before, there are many things that are altered for the sake of drama. Some examples include: willfully warping blades for the "come from behind victory", over dramatising small errors (like the guy walking off set, wanting to quit, then miraculously fixing the problem in 5 minutes), gasoline/petrol in the quench oil for fiery explosions (this is the most irksome thing of the show for me), complete removal of tempering and heat treat processes for increased chance of breakages and blade failures, and even participant selection (notice how it's always the backyard smith, hobbyist or IT guy making knives in his spare time and never the ABS / foreign guild smith, or a smith of some renown) Anyone in the vicinity other than the tester are also required by most states laws/health and safety regulations to be behind plexiglass shielding due to the risk of shrapnel, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's also hidden from camera view for drama's sake. All and all it's entertaining and a good show to watch, but it's a far cry from technically sound Smith experience. It is heavily manufactured for the layman's entertainment.
Seriously though, the blade has to be basically falling apart, cracks everywhere, delamination's left and right for them to say "I don't feel safe testing this."
Forged in fire drives me nuts. They make a sword in 4 hours in a forge that isn't their own, while trying to do things like Damascus and then stress test it well beyond what you normally would without having dedicated the time to proper normalization and tempering that you would normally do. All on a blade that typically none of the contestants have never made before. It is a recipe for shoddy work and failure.
they do normalizing and tempering (albeit not as much as normal I'd assume) its just ALWAYS cut out in editing because that step isn't entertaining at all and its a TV show.
Funny thing is, there's *A LOT* that goes on behind the scenes, between each of the "Forge Sessions" and other such stuff. I believe you can see in episodes of Beat the Judges (I could be wrong) where they actually SHOW the normalization ovens being used. Sure, there's 4 hours of stressful competition broken into 2-hour blocks followed by ridiculous tests. But we don't see all the boring bits in the background. We don't see all the bits and bobs that go on between the 2-hour forging blocks. We BARELY get a good view of the judging process, let alone the "rigorous tests" after round 2. Unless it's included in the competition requirements, normalizing is a long and tedious process that can be done off camera in standardized ovens designed specifically for the process. TL;DR - Reality TV is EXTREMELY dramatized, far more than any other entertainment media I can think of, and they leave out an extreme amount of the actual work that goes into just the competitors making their 'product' whether it's blades or cakes.
you men show such exquisite knowledge on blade and metals dynamics in this application its ridiculous. ive got so much to learn about this topic it only encourages me to watch more and practice my edge alignment. thankyou
2:17 And still YT screws you over regarding showing uploads to people and tanking your ad revenue 😭 In case yall see this, are things any better by now regarding this? Are you more stable?
You're real people and have provided us entertainment and joy for years as well as fond memories for some members of the community.❤️🔥 They are Hollywood weirdos and therefore aren't really people so they just exist for our entertainment.😅
this is television. it's entirely possible they hide all of the crew and contestants behind barriers or whatever during the testing and just film their reactions after the fact, or have them respond to the footage via a live feed or whatever. It's not that hard to shoot and edit everything to make it appear that it's all happening at the same time in the same room. Still doesn't really excuse them setting a bad example by not really emphasizing safety onscreen, in favor of sensationalism. They just put a "don't try this at home" warning on screen and then show you a bunch of amateurs basically trying it at home. Anyway, the judges/testers do seem to genuinely know what they're doing and understand the risk involved. Probably getting paid a heck of a lot to take it.
The contestant reactions to blades and metal shards flying through the air are clearly not filmed after-the-fact and they are clearly not behind barriers of any sort. If the person actually swinging the weapon who is closest to it has absolutely no protection whatsoever, why would they ever consider giving protection to anyone else who is clearly several feet away already which is clearly their only protective measure.
@@tarrickmerdev2324 there are tons of easy answers to all of this, but basically there is no reason at all to believe that what you're seeing on a reality show is actually the reality of what happened. Reactions can be and are faked constantly, often to make things appear more dramatic and exciting. People are coached to have bigger responses than they would naturally so that it can play well on screen. Hired professionals with recurring roles are treated vastly differently from guests/contestants and crew for all kinds of contractual, legal, insurance reasons etc. There is absolutely no reason to expect that the person being paid to put themselves at risk testing weapons on camera, the job they were hired to do and that the production has cleared insurance requirements for, will be treated the same as everyone else involved. I do not know anything about the production specifically. I am just saying, they obviously want there to appear to be a lot of danger because that creates a sense of tension and excitement for television. It's highly likely and very plausible that no one besides the person performing the testing is in as much danger as it appears in the final edit. If they were to explain and film all of their safety measures, it would eat up a lot of screen time and mostly not be interesting to the casual viewer. Not that you can't make a show that emphasizes safety on screen, like Mythbusters often did for example, but if displaying safety is not a priority for a show you're just not going to see it, whether it is there or not.
Oh come now Shad! I remember your early tests where I was BEGGING you in the comment sections to wear protective gear, at the very least goggles. I'm super glad you chaps have moved into making sure to protect yourselves and hope for many more years of content!
Even though this was one of my favourite tv shows, i still wonder and question the veracity of their testings, the time limit they give on their weapon forging and, of course, their choice of not wearing any protective gear besides some flimsy protective goggles, even though some of the weapons they use could and very well would cut them in half if a catastrophic failure were to happen
Mythbusters was the gold standard in protecting their cast and crew from danger
Top gear is the copper standard
And even them failed few times. But the difference being that every fail lead to an improvement to make sure it didn't happen again.
Forged in Fire must be the Black & Gold generic standard.
And even on Mythbusters, there were serious screw-ups
Y'know, you say that, but you didn't have a cannon ball land into your living room from over a mile away. LOL!
Also, you didn't have your facial hair burned off, like Adam, in one of the earliest episodes of the show.
I like how the two of you appear as dream sequences for whoever is in the video you are reviewing.
I had no idea what you were talking about until I got the first clip. I was thinking that the producers were having nightmares of Shad and Tyranth reviewing their show lmao.
@@austinjones8964"No... No! We're sorry! We'll buy gambersons! We'll get helmets! Please! Stop!
'Forged In Fire' and 'Deadliest Warrior' were my childhood introduction to the idea of "qualified opinions".
Dude, I still love Deadliest Warrior. It's cheesedickery in all its glory.
@@brentharlow3559 It's what you get if you give cameras and a budget to 3rd graders arguing on the playground over who would win. And that's what makes it fun.
Lol deadliest warrior was peak television. I nearly always disagree with the results but I was always entertained
Have enjoyed both shows, even at their dumbest moments. Hell, even played the first Deadliest Warrior game as well.
Agreed. Deadliest warrior was just fun to watch, especially as a kid.
You guys should do your own forged in fire where contestants from all over the world send you weapons, and then you test their weapon safely, and with tests more relevant to the purpose of the weapon.
Damn, that would be cool! I follow the Fan showdown on Major Hardware where he test PC fans designed by viewers, and a 3D printing channel I follow has an ongoing competition to create the best viewer designed part cooling nozzle. Granted, those are just 3D files that are a bit easier to send from all over the planet than swords or other weapons..
But I do have some leaf springs and an intention to make a forge, so color me interested 😅.
I love the concept of that! I don't know how viable it is, but I'd be all for it!
Would be fun. I'd send one in. I'd recommend full gear though xD.
Shipping weapons internationally is complicated depending on country.
@@shadow7037932 I imagine it could be very difficult given Shad is in Australia, which has some extraordinarily strict border and customs control
This reminds me of a classic internet video where an infomercial was selling some cheap ass swords. The sales man was saying that the blades were unbreakable and, upon striking the table three times, the blade snapped and cut him.
Yeah, that was the QVC late night “sword and knife” show. Scary stuff, and despite what Shad and Tyranth said about mass produced swords, that was more of a mass produced stainless steel Sword Shaped Object like almost all of what was sold on that program.
"It got me!"
'Traces of death' video...
@@markfergerson2145 "Sword Shaped Object" is a good way to put it
I remember watching that when it happened, it was like the first six to eight ish inches of the blade if memory serves and it stabbed right into his bicep, deep enough that the second presenter was like "we're gonna need an ambulance here." meanwhile dude that effectively stabbed himself was going on about "oh, I'm hit, I'm hit good." every time he smacked that thing on the solid maple butcher block counter I was cringing, waiting for it to snap.
"Dry bone is closer to rock, and that can REALLY mess up blades." So in medieval fantasy games where bladed weapons suck against reanimated skeletons (but not against zombies,) and you're supposed to use bludgeoning weapons against the skellies, that acutally makes a lot more scientific sense than probably even the game designers realize?
Yup. Fire and ranged weapons are almost as good as a warhammer.
Well you're hitting a porous rock made from calcium, so yes a Hammer or an Axe is more effective (and less likely to break) than a blade.
A blade is made to sever flesh muscles and vessels to stop and end your foe, neither is present on a skeleton.
Don't know if the game designers had that in mind or just following established tropes, but then many enthusiastic game designers are huge nerds which tent to overthink details and go into rabbitholes for research.
I'm more surprised that their insurance company didn't force them to implement safety measures.
Their insurance company needs to fire whatever agent okay'd their contract to only require eye protection
@@Nioclas64 even then id bet my left foot the eye protection is purely a OSHA thing and has nothing to do with insurance
The latest seasons you can notice the judges started wearing body armor and gloves for the tests where they expect the weapons to fail catastrophically. But then watching the latest latest one they reverted to not wearing safety gear. But then the seasons and episodes are recorded and shown out of order some times.
I think that most of the decisions that are made with regard to safety and the type of tests chosen are driven by the fact that the show is for entertainment first and foremost. So they try to address safety by having things like having medics on set rather than by wearing safety equipment and using barriers etc. that would interfere with the visuals. The tests are also chosen to go with the theme of the episode rather than to be the ideal test to safely evaluate the blade's performance. Also worth mentioning that many of the blade failures are due to constraints that are imposed on the smiths (time, materials, techniques etc.) to keep things interesting and up the entertainment value.
Not defending their decisions, just giving what I think is their rationale.
@@kamui004 sounds like they arent professionals at all.
They just wanna die
There have been instances where a judge was injured by a test. They have increased PPE over the years
That is very true
What episode?
@@dantegallardo1974 an example of ppe improving is the Attila episode (shown in this video where the sword breaks attempting to chop through a horse skull) vs the teneg takoba episode much later, where a "anti-cut sleeve" is present during the stress test on Dave Baker.
I actually found an even better example, with the nimcha episode (I hope I spelled that right) showing Ben Abbott wearing a collar, and what appears to be anti cut vest and sleeves during the strength test.
Yes, and they do a visual inspection of the weapons before and after every test, there were multiple instances where they didn't test one at all because they found it too dangerous.
@@TigerJaeger131 Heck, one person got DQed... because despite inspecting it before testing... during testing the judge(J) had his hand get hurt by the weapon's grip, not even a fail, just the grip was poorly built and had a flaw in it.
Dave Baker is a historical swordsmith, Doug Marcaida is an edged weapon combat specialist and a bladesmith, J. Neilson is a Mastersmith in the American Blade Society, and Ben Abbott is a Bladesmith. They typically wear more PPE these days, usually a flak vest under a shirt, but they should be using more PPE. Dave typically smiths the weapon that they show the contestants that they will need to build.
Doug isn’t a bladesmith but he does design.
Ben is a multi Winner of the show
@@keiththompson9435 Oh, I thought Doug had forged knives as well as designing them.
@@Welvryn Once upon a time he and Wil Willis forged blades in J’s Forge.
THIS, I wanted to yell at them because they've obviously done no research on the judges or the show itself. Also they talk like they're expert bladesmiths and are experienced with metallergy. IMO Shad has had some REALLY moronic takes on stuff he feels is wrong
@@thejackofalldans786 Shad is a Brit who likes to talk.....a LOT and acts like he's an expert. I've seen their "Weapons testing" videos and I'm sorry to say but these two have no idea what they're talking about.
In fairness to the scythe episode, it was the Halloween special. And I know they didn't have barriers up in the first few seasons because I remember a knife test where the blade snapped at the tang and slid all the way across the floor to the guy who made it. I think they did have a serious injury too, I think Doug Marcaida cut his hand really badly when a hilt failed in one episode. And he still doesn't wear gloves.
A Darwin Award in the making then
Then he's an idiot twice
Pride over competence. A competent tester would use PPE, a prideful one cares more about looking cool or badass than doing real work.
Idiocy
He wears gloves now.
they did start to wear more PPE later on in the show and they do inspect the blades off camera before starting
They do, but for how wrong this can go it's not sufficient in the slightest, and it shouldn't have taken that long
Ya but If a fencer can even be stabbed though his armor having no to little armor is just "sign a waver to not sue." For the testers levels of dangerous.
They also have the footage of how the weapon is made.
Unlike shad to whom every sword is a blackbox, they can see whether there might be something wrong with the heat treat, simply by seeing how they quench went.
@@loganshaw4527 And then you have that one saber test from one of the earlier shows, where the cutlass slit off the dumies west, giving both weapons the non-lethal result
You would think a show the size of Forged in Fire would have an emphasis on safety when testing things.
Whoever did insurance for them would probably demand that sort of thing to help prevent injuries so the insurance company doesn't have to pay it. Someone could get seriously injured doing that sort of stuff.
Nah, insurance company is probably laughing while hoping they don't get reasonable protective gear. They probably have in the contract that FiF needs to take precautions to protect themselves and others that if they don't follow then insurance won't pay.
@@mrkeller8000 The production company would cover their asses even if the show didn't, and not let the insurance pull that scam. more likely they are just paying higher premiums and trusting the shows "experts" for safety opinions without double checking them.
That delamination was like a version of a skill-tree for Tyranth: “New fear unlocked! Lvl 10. Delam.”
Also, nice haircut, Tyranth! Very knightly/noble. :)
He generally works with modern steel
and Delam is so rare in modern steel that a Factory I once worked in had a half finished part hung up on the wall because the steel delaminated
It was the only one that had done so in over 50 years
@@drthmik Wow!
part of FIF is what shows good on camera. the ice looks amazing when they chop it
Also probably why they don't have face protection
Still, when I see a sword test, I don't want to see a hipster knife expert take a swing, I want to see a hema trained knight in full armor take that swing. They could've easily combined safety with what looks good on camera. Shad's armor looks good on camera, though for a tv production and to appeal to a broader audience I would recommend full plate for FIF.
Also I think that showing the judges take proper safety measures would make the viewer more aware that these are dangerous weapons, which could increase the show's appeal. Robot Wars for example really drove home the point how dangerous and destructive the robots are by showing off how strong that cage is.
@@BunjiKugashira42 How would someone who never fully swung a sword without gloves, know whether the handle is made well or not? It's NOT a sword test, like what Shad and co do, where you look at what the bought sword can do.
It's only about what the swords can take, to see which balcksmith did the better job. In that circumstance its BETTER to have a brute, than someone who is trained to do their darndest so the weapon doesn't break.
12:50 Can you imagine that polearm/Bec losing the blade or hammer as you pull back to swing? Ouch!
I *wholeheartedly* agree that the lack of safety precautions in Forged in Fire in inexcusable, even if I like the show; with it being how I first found out about a lot of historical weapons that I might've never heard of otherwise.
I can no longer watch this show without flinching thanks to you. Please watch more fails from it
Yes do more of these. The durability tests where most of these blades fail is after the sharpness test where the one judge says "It will kill". So you know the blade can kill but you're still not taking safety precautions.
Insanity. Good on you for calling them out. I watched for years and was oblivious to this. Please do more!
The judges injure themselves smashing knives and swords into inappropriately hard objects. One guy broke his wrist smashing a heavy basket hilt word into ICE
Regarding the scythe test, the thing that got me was the judge swinging a not very long object towards the fixed, sharp blade. Sure, you're not likely to aim badly enough that your lop off your own hand, but what if you slip? What if the blade dislodges after the first hit and falls towards you as you're swinging with all your might? I just imagine him judging the distance wrong and slamming his hand full force into that blade 😬
What's wild is the show would have more audience appeal if they had guys out there in full armor. It's literally a win win.
According to ex-host Wil Wilson, the room is super hot due to all of the forging they are doing for hours, I wouldn't want to be in already hot armor just to do the testing for 10 minutes.
@@CertifiedSunset
Doors are a thing... aswel as walk a litle...
@@insiainutorrt259 Dog, that wasn't a complete sentence. but yes, they do have fans/AC running but it's not enough to keep the room cold when several forges are running at the same time for long periods.
Given how litigious America is I’m surprised at the lack of protection… but we like our drama even more 😉
Except in scenarios like this you actually sign away your right to sue so long as you're acting within the parameters agreed upon
It's the same as signing any other liability waiver
@AllanTidgwell waivers only work when it's just negligence. Waivers by law cannot protect against gross negligence. And I don't see a world where this isn't gross negligence.
I mean the Baldwin case really shows how much film production gets a pass on safety.
Another awesome video guys. The judges on forged in fire have been injured a few times carrying out the tests. The low collar gloves they sometimes wear look similar to the low collar ones I wear in the summer on my motorcycle and when I test out a new whip which are kangaroo leather lined with Kevlar. One thing that I do find interesting about them testing blades is why would they not even wear a box as a minimum! Surely that would be a priority 😂
All of the episodes where Doug is sporting an injury and brings his brother out to do the tests may be from testing blades in episodes that were never aired.
And these are the "experts".
Remember, these will KEEL!
Ahh well, they didn't become one of the most popular TV series on the History channel to ever be made by playing it safe.
@@jong2359 It literally takes nothing away from the testing to wear a protective jacket or vest and some gloves, they've even done it before!
@@CertifiedSunset Heck, it would _ADD_ to the show to have the judges wear decent quality reproductions of historical armor
@@drthmik So much this. Wearing armor would just make the show cooler. Two birds with one stone, safety and looking good.
Shows a basic evel of professionalism of wearing safety gear aswell. If they cant follow basic, they shouldnt bother calling themselves professionals if they cant do basic safety.
I have not seen such a simple title, that some may understandably consider to be clickbait, be so fitting of a video in a bit. I haven't watched the show in a long time, so I hope that they've finally upgraded their safety protocols, but they really should have had much better protection a long time ago.
Forged in Fire is one of my favorite shows. It's cool seeing you talk about it.
One of my favorite things about FiF is that instead of being greedy, they put the older seasons up for free on TH-cam. You can just watch full episodes on their official channel.
Mine too. Every time I watch it though I think about how, what is essentially a game show, is probably the most historically relevant show on the History channel.
@@kurokaze511 Absolutely! I miss the days when the History Channel and the Discovery Channel served primarily to educational content instead of reality tv and conspiracy theories. I want to watch Dirty Jobs, or Myth Busters. I biopic about the daily lives of crab fishermen, or a documentary about space, or history, or How It's Made. I don't care if aliens are hiring the ghost mafia to possess the Chupicabra to hunt down Bigfoot.
Yeah, would love to see more Forged in Fire content! This is cool.
(Love the Rin pfp btw :D)
If I got 50¢ for every math test, I've failed.
I would have $7.20 by now.
What did Chuck Norris do when his parachute failed to open?
Brought it back for a refund.
🤣
Usually you pack your own chute for obvious reasons, so is he asking for a refund from himself?
@@rykehuss3435 Spoke to a chap that was a parachute packer for the RAF, and they told the same basic joke with different framing. They gave the parachutes to the pilots with a guarantee and that if they didn’t work you should bring them back. Bit of gallows humour from WW2 for ya.
So less then 15 failed math test? Or you got scammed of .30$ for the 15th failed math test?
@@loganshaw4527That's the joke, yes.
I've seen alot of these and i also think it's interesting to just watch a lot of the times where thye judged the weapon poorly in it's cutting potential, when the edge alignment was absolutely HORRENDOUS by the guy using it. As well as some breaks too, legit not the fault of the blade at all, just pure terrible edge alignment when using it, i've seen them hit with the flad side of the blade dead on
They do that a LOT, the judges claim to be expert weapon forgers and users, but none seem to know how to align a blade or have good grips. And some of the tests go against the very nature of the weapons they are making which directly contributes to poor weapons, I feel like they are trying to do a bad job to get failures to happen, because no one can miss 4 times in a row and hit with the side of a katana, a blade that wants to align with the strike.
Well it is ultimately ups to them to pick the winner
One of the most common criticisms you see from the judges is poorly designed and/or executed handles (or hilts) that make it difficult to grasp and index to keep the blade properly aligned. So it may be that at least some of the problems with edge alignment are at least partially due to problems with the weapon.
The worst edge alignment often comes even from the martial arts bladed weapon specialist 😂
Yes I have seen this and it bugs me
More of these reactions to Forged In Fire please. I love the show
This is a great call for a series thx guys much love
The blade that almost decapitated J on Forged in Fire at 6:16 was made by a blade hobbyist, in a coal pit dug in the ground and using the most rudimentary of tools. There was also not the most ideal conditions to forge and inspect a blade. It was doomed to fail, and the judges knew this, though failed to take further necessary safety measures.
I feel like they are trying to get failures on camera, they will purposefully misalign strikes to hit the flats just to damage blades, or hit away from the percussion point, or aim for target supports in their hits. And some of the forging is done with rules or materials that just don't make sense for the object which virtually guarantees a failure.
The blade broke and bounced back. The worst that could happen is a very light cut or poke in the eye, but not decapitation is impossible
@@Asto508 You don't detect irony too well, do you? 😂😂
@@PhantomFilmAustralia Not in current years
With such rudimentary tools, it's great that they managed to produce anything at all.
Tyranth looks like a Chad villain 😮
He looks like Bormir from LOTR
@@adamlevy1794 Boromir dies
@rykehuss3435 But am I wrong, though 🧐
More of this! You're saying what I've always been thinking!
thanks for making my blade your videos thumbnail shad if you slow it down he cut thru the horse skull and into the steel behind it ypu can see the sparks
Perhaps there is a fully equipped operating theater with vascular surgeons standing by in the next room?🤔
Femoral artery goes spurt
This is actually pretty close to the truth. Basically the only thing they can't treat on site is congenital/heat issues. But there is like 5+ emergency medics on the ground with an ambulance standing by at all times.
They do have medical staff off camera to step in at any time in case of medical emergencies, they've had to use them on several occasions.
Mythbusters took more safety precautions for their safest myths than Forged in Fire seem to take in general.
Im glad you guys are bring this up. They dont understand a blade failure can keel!
Tyranth be giving that Frenchified Rollo vibe.
I flinch every time I watch them test a sword on that show. I don't test swords for a living, but even I'm like: "what if the flying chunk of sharpened steel hits you in a spot other than the safety glasses? For that matter, what if it hits the safety glasses?!"
Tis only a flesh wound.
if it hits the safety glasses... it hits the safety glasses.
Those aren't even high end safety glasses, they would fail if you were using them on a government site. Those are for wood splinters while nailing, not for things like grinders or demolition, which is a lot closer to what they are HOPING to happen on tests.
Safety glasses are rates for ballistic shrapnel, AKA small bits of sharp metal flying very fast like hot metal slag flaking off of a piece when you are using an angle grinder and it would otherwise hit you in the eye but the glasses either bounce it off or catch it. Ask me how I know lol.
@@CertifiedSunset I'm almost afraid to. Almost. How do you know?
I find myself returning, after a while away, to _Shadiversity_ this October.
I hope to stay.
It's a big hollywood production favoring flashiness and looking good over safety.
I actually know the smith that made that scythe. He’s actually a really good knife and sword smith, wonderful guy to talk to and see how he works. Our local theatre was also able to do a public viewing of the episode when it aired. Good memories that
On Forged In Fire, the judges are: a master smith, a *very* experienced smith (probably close to being able to test to master), a smith who is a historical weapons re-creation specialist, and an Air Force veteran Filipino martial artist who is a bladed weapons expert. I agree with both of you that they should definitely being wearing more protection. And yes, the show is still in production.
Shad should be a sword episode guest judge on ‘Forged In Fire’
The scythe one, the fact that he was also striking towards the blade with absolutely no covering on his hands made me shudder hard.
I can't watch "Forged in Fire" because the sheer lack of any safety measures drives me nuts. I very much prefer watching Mythbusters where they did implement any safety measures they could think of and they still had sometimes some unforseen accidents.
More of this, cuz it was awesome to get y'all's expert opinion.
Knife Smith her. First ice is more like hitting a antler or stone, soft wood is quit harmless and hard wood is just a bit more stress for the blade. Second, in three days turning out a blade is extreme fast. I make 10 knives in a month and that is fast.
It's honestly very impressive that not more blades brake in these tests. Third and last, normally quality control on large blades is normaly quit easy. Mainly you can see and hear it, if a sword, knive etc. has fractures. Under normal conditions, you woud make a new one if there is the hint of having a fracture in the blade. But in three days, you might not have the time to start over. So you grind it out, weld it or skip the control and shot from the hip. Oh if you never hardened a big blade bevor, you are in real dark waters. I made 10 sword blades, my first 5 didn't make it , my 6,7 had become to hard and the last two are quite good.
PS: They shoud wear better protection for sure.
I wonder if the lack of safety has come from the confidence of having paramedics on standby.
If you guys know Darrell Markewitz from Wareham forge in Canada, he has some good stories from when he was scouted by FIF as a potential judge for the show.
the announcer who left was a former navy seal.. he most likely had been wanting safety gear after the first knife failure, and quiet .. he left early on too.. the judges have all changed out also, the where always out for "hand/arm problems" then leave the show shortly after.. the studio probably has them sign a league or waiver before getting hired..
Left early on? He hosted the show for 7 of its 8 seasons..... Also only one of the judges have left the show which was due to a hand injury, he returned 8 episodes later. You may be thinking of the guest judge Ben Abbot who replaced the judges when they are busy shooting the "beat the judges episodes".
Are you just making things up for a youtube comment?
@@Lowlightt I admit the I am in error.. I'll do more research and then leave my keyboard alone.. live under rock since '03..
Tyranth: "go back to the bones with the knife, that's ridiculous."
Says the man who hit a katana against blue stone!!!
Yes more Please ..There is only 2 things wrong with this vid = It's only twenty minutes long and It ended .The second to last spooked me too .
I've always been amazed at how unsafe they are. Yes, they are still airing but sporadically with special episodes. One episode a couple weeks ago was teams building siege weapons.
One of those judges (the guy with the ice chop) goes balls to the wall hitting things. He hits things like it owes him money LOL
Yeah, Forged In Fire seemed cool at first but lost my interest fairly quickly with some of their ridiculousness. I mean, if a layman like me can spot a bunch of mistakes it's not a good thing.
Edit: It was a really cool concept for a show though. It was just the execution that sometimes left a bit to be desired.
Lock n Load with R Lee Ermey tier
I used to watch forged in fire before I found your channel and back then it never occurred to me the lack of safety but I remember watching your barrel destruction video and it making me want to watch an episode of forged in fire and immediately when they started testing I asked myself why aren't they using protective equipment it blew my mind that before it never crossed my mind but it just became such common knowledge for me after watching this channel that like no matter your confidence in your self or the weapon wear the proper gear
The forged in fire folks might edit out the protective barriers but why would you like you said. Not show how dangerous this is.
I would think as experts they wouldn't want to encourage amateurs to be unsafe. Show the danger, show the precautions, and be diligent like a professional.
Wil Willis was the host from seasons 1-7 and he's done in depth interviews on why he left. Its a good watch and helps explain why the show does some of the things it does and does not do.
Well he didn't exactly leave because he wanted to lol
From what I know about the judges, all of them are very qualified to be making these judgments. The medieval Santa Claus looking dude is a historical recreation specialist. He makes replicas for a living aside from the show
If they were qualified, they wouldn't do these tests without protection. Real experts know the danger and always advocate for protective gear. Only 'cool and tough guys', who have no clue, will do stuff like this without getting nervous.
Medieval Santa Claus is the best description i've ever reas of that guy XD
In addition in Filipino martial arts they use swords like the Kris so Doug is well versed with how to use a sword.
The thing with these tests is they are purposely testing the swords to their limit. So some of them are over the top but sometimes this is the only way to separate swords that are well-crafted from each other. Otherwise if you just cut pigs all day long you don't learn very much if both swords are well made.
@@m.h.6470 That's fair
I do think that there is more protective equipment around. They just shoot it so that you can't see it. I am sure that they have glass shields for the crew. The people testing should be wearing more protective equipment though you're right
I never watched that show before, but I can see why you might want to see whether a sword can withstand a specific type of abuse, but it seems like there are purposely going at it with the intent to break them,.. and sometimes without even wearing any type of precaution or protective wear beyond a tie shirt, pants and the type of safely glass that you might use while hammering finishing nails.
Please remember, most people in the US watch FORGED IN FIRE for the failures not the successes.
I think the reason that people don't criticize Forged in Fire so much because a lot of us see it once, shake our heads, and never watch again. I think it has more appeal with a more casual audience than sword nerds like us.
I just like watching the forging part. But all the reality TV fake drama makes even the cool stuff boring and lame.
@@noctisocculta4820 What fake drama, at best you get "oh no, joe's blade broke can he forge another in time"? 20 seconds of introducing the contestants?
18:08 - I have criticized Forged in Fire in the past, and I will gladly continue to do so. My criticisms mainly had to do with historical inaccuracies in their descriptions of weapons, poor edge alignment, and unfair destructive tests, that seem like it could easily break any blade, regardless of steel quality, enough to make me question whether there is any survivability. You guys talking about safety is something I had not considered and is a totally valid concern.
They probably think the safety gear detracts from the visual appeal of the show. And they also might think it makes the show more exciting but gee I'd kinda hope they aren't of that mindset.
For future knowledge, the guy with the jeans, cowboy hat, and cool beard is actually a historical weapons expert and also have made props/consulted about historical accuracy of weapons for movies.
And Doug, the knife guy, is a Kali martial artist.
Truthfully, if you guys could swing it, I would love to see you guys at least do an interview with David Baker.
Small World Moment, my sister's boyfriend, was on Forged in Fire.
You have to remember this is a dramatized show as well. I'm not saying the weapon fails are on purpose, but they film it so that you think everyone could be in danger, when in fact the cast, contestants and film crew probably are well protected. The judges probably decline to wear the type of gear you suggest as well.
These guys are idiots for not wearing more protection. But they don't wanna mess up their hair or hide their faces cuz of the cameras.
I bet they do it for the dramatic tension too.
they have increased safety gear over the years to be fair, and do visual inspections for defects before testing
They should be wearing a lot more protection for sure than in these clips there should also be barriers against flying pieces of broken blades.
The are not complete morons though. They usually visually check the blade for any visual dangers that would deem the blade unsafe from the start. If the feel like they would get injured by swinging the weapon they give it a vote of no confidence and the blade is not tested at all. So, there are some safety precautions, just not enough of them.
Shad has a pretty major point here. Because yes they do have like full medical teams on set and stuff, but they have actually had an injury, and there were a bunch of episodes where Doug (The "It will KEEL" guy) had to watch a student of his do the tests he usually would instead because his hand got messed up during a failed test. And they really should be wearing more safety gear, yeah. I know they at least sometimes use barricades and stuff in the tests but not often and usually it's more based on the test, like launching spears out of air cannons.
A chunk of me does wonder if they avoid some of the PPE they should use because in theory it could interfere with the tests or depending, cover injuries, say they wear a brigandine and don't notice a cut because the armor hides it, but all the same they should maybe find a happy compromise here.
I think the main reason they don't use any safety is to keep their looks. I know it's a dumb reason, but maybe that's how tv works
Yeah they got to look cool when bleeding out.
TV works however they want it to work, they chose that
For a start it's how Hollywood works, never have the main character wear a helmet
Doug is a kali martial artist, his style focuses on weapon based combat with a broad variety of weapons.
That said, it gets pretty obvious when he's using a weapon outside his wheelhouse... But he does have experience broadly with most *types* of weapons.
The judges wanted to look macho. I love the show but have wondered when one was going to get injured.
It's also hot as hell being in a room with 4 forges running.
I've waited 10 years for this video, I'm just glad you're the one doing it.
Both J. Neilson and Dave Baker are sword experts. J. Neilson also is a master smith in the American Bladesmith Society. Also, in the early seasons they didn't wear much protection but they did wear vests under the shirts. After about season 4 they started wearing more protective gear. And yes, they have had minor injuries, but never any serious ones. Also, they do have medics right there in the studio.
Edit: I will not be responding to any idiot claiming they are not experts. You have the sum of human knowledge at your fingertips, USE IT. It is VERY simple to do some research before you open your idiotic mouth.
Yeah and I'm sure the insurance company makes them have medics on staff as that's standard procedure for a virtually any TV show with any sort of stunt work. Basically, that isn't a special consideration that what they're doing and how they're doing it is especially dangerous. These guys may technically have the credentials to be considered an expert, but I know an awful lot of PhD's who are complete morons and a lot of people with certifications in the industry that I work in that know absolutely nothing about the topic.
In the end, these "experts" agreed to do this show with these conditions for money over the safety of themselves and everyone else on set. They may never have a serious injury. Even if they do, we're likely to never hear about it since that episode would likely never be aired and they would simply have different judges if the show continued. All it would take is a single shard to come back at a bad angle to the neck or face and they aren't going to have a good day.
@@tarrickmerdev2324 Oh I'm not saying it's a good idea to not have more protection. In my mind, it is never a bad idea to have as much protection as possible. But yes, they actually are sword experts, at least Dave and J. J has over 20 years of smithing experience as well. Both have tons of knowledge about the craft and about using the weapons as well. But yes, they should have more protections and they did increase the amount of protections worn around the 4th season or so.
Having medics on set aren't a safety measure. They are there to stem an already serious situation from getting any worse.
Thank you. Context is super important. They also have a lot of cuts where you might assume things are fairly close like the smiths watching but they are actually far away. It doesn't excuse the lack of protection, but there is much less danger than what the show is generally portraying because it's standard tv with standard tv tactics which means only showing the most "Thrilling" parts.
@@sidroberts7960 Oh, that makes it even more sad. They must be deliberately doing poor alignment strikes, poor targeting, and poor grips then to encourage failures for the sake of the show instead of doing good strikes for the good of the craft.
Actually there are one episode, one of judges got injured. When they tested Scottish Backsword, the guard break the wrist of the judge.
Y'all gotta make the separation bar a sword like the last video had a comment on.
10:00 That failure was because the blade was made from a type of chain that was forge welded, problem was, the contestant put the chain in the forge, let it heat up then set it aside allowing forge scale to build up and when they continued working on it, they left the forge scale on the metal.
I definitely want to see more of this
I want to see more! Great video guys!
More dream sequence commentary shenanigans!
8:17 "Why aren't they wearing safety gear" - but he clearly is: he has his safety glasses and safety-squints on. And maybe even his protection-crocs.
The only major fail I remember seeing back when I watched the show was with claymores. They swung them at a full pig carcass. The first one bent right around it, and the second one shattered. They asked the guy with the bent sword to try to straighten it out for another test, which he did. I think that guy lost, though, by the reasoning that they hear a lot of old stories about broken blades, but never about bent ones.
The guy with the bent sword won. That was a wild episode lol
apart from health and safety fails my main issue with that program was the judges obsession with breaking the blades though ridiculous tests and striking on objects excessively and bending them at extreme angles until they break. pig corpse or fish or dummy with (or without) light armor is one thing but striking on wood, dry bones and plate armor just for the sake of breaking the forged blade seems counterintuitive.
I think I can count on my left hand the amount of contestants that understand metalurgy
it is kind of understandable that tempering on set is gonna be difficult, the long builds shouldn't have bad tempering.
I think they do it off set.
With the sheer number of contestants, there must have been plenty - but we remember spectacular failures more than anything else.
@@arkonwolves7192 often in home workshops of dudes who hope to be able to afford a proper forge by winning the contest.
Well keep in mind for the long builds they get sent home to their own forges and about half of them don't have the equipment to make anything bigger than a knife. So I think a lot of those fails are do to ad hoc quenching tubs and trying to heat a big chunk of steel in a tiny furnace and keep it consistent.
During the elimination rounds they get 3-4 hours to complete the build. They only get a few days for the final round.
I like Forged In Fire, but I was always concerned with their lack of safety gear - particularly around the face and neck.
The absolute worst test was the Bungie cord test. Trying to cut something that is designed to be extremely resistant the cuts is bonkers
Bungie cord is not necessarily made to be cut resistant, more shock and impact resistant. Granted there is cut resistant bungie cord but is that what they used unknown.
Although i agree with some of the points you made, there are few points from a Smith's standpoint that I don't think got taken into your consideration, or isn't made explicitly clear by the show:
1.) The judges: Doug Marcaida is a renowned Kali martial artist, and is also well versed in the use of all manner of bladed weapons.
J.Neilson is an ABS master smith, who does not exclusively do knives.
David Baker is a Weapons historian and specializes in medieval European Weapon Recreation.
2.)The nature of the Show: you guys have a TH-cam channel, and are not American. Forged in Fire is an American TV show not aimed specifically at Smiths or enthusiasts, but to the layman.
American TV shows are always hyped up with 2 things: drama and explosions.
There are things that are purposefully exaggerated, rigged or omitted for the Drama of it all.
3.) our way vs. their way: your tests are conducted on mass manufactured swords on open air conditions, which is fine for you guys. They are more beholden to fire safety requirements and restrictions based on their location. these include metal walls, concrete flooring, industrial lighting (all of which aren't great for reducing the heat generated in a relatively small warehouse) add to that 20-50 people who exhale hot breath continuously, 4 gas forges running at about 900° c each, the residual heat from said forges and heat conducted by all the metal in their vicinity, and 3-4 spotlights used per Smith for optimal lighting of the steel and you have a pretty toasty situation. Wearing gambeson, doublet or any form of padding while swinging a bit of steel would make someone drop from heat exhaustion.
Thus, the minimal protection (which still meets the minimal PPE requirements, and apparently includes a flak vest underneath the shirt).
Also factor in the fact that these judges handle/make/spar with sharp edged weapons on a daily basis, and seeing as two are smiths, they both probably have the "duct tape is my Med kit" mentality most smiths have.
4).the Showrunners: as mentioned before, there are many things that are altered for the sake of drama. Some examples include: willfully warping blades for the "come from behind victory", over dramatising small errors (like the guy walking off set, wanting to quit, then miraculously fixing the problem in 5 minutes), gasoline/petrol in the quench oil for fiery explosions (this is the most irksome thing of the show for me), complete removal of tempering and heat treat processes for increased chance of breakages and blade failures, and even participant selection (notice how it's always the backyard smith, hobbyist or IT guy making knives in his spare time and never the ABS / foreign guild smith, or a smith of some renown)
Anyone in the vicinity other than the tester are also required by most states laws/health and safety regulations to be behind plexiglass shielding due to the risk of shrapnel, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's also hidden from camera view for drama's sake.
All and all it's entertaining and a good show to watch, but it's a far cry from technically sound Smith experience.
It is heavily manufactured for the layman's entertainment.
Tyranth feels these fails so fully his face is fairly aflush
In later episodes you can see them wearing more protection. I'm surprised their insurance company doesn't tell them to be safer.
Yeah do more reactions to bad sword content!!
Seriously though, the blade has to be basically falling apart, cracks everywhere, delamination's left and right for them to say "I don't feel safe testing this."
Forged in fire drives me nuts. They make a sword in 4 hours in a forge that isn't their own, while trying to do things like Damascus and then stress test it well beyond what you normally would without having dedicated the time to proper normalization and tempering that you would normally do. All on a blade that typically none of the contestants have never made before. It is a recipe for shoddy work and failure.
they do normalizing and tempering (albeit not as much as normal I'd assume) its just ALWAYS cut out in editing because that step isn't entertaining at all and its a TV show.
Yeah, this is why Ilya from "That Works" is only in ONE episode. he doesn't like how rushed everything is.
Funny thing is, there's *A LOT* that goes on behind the scenes, between each of the "Forge Sessions" and other such stuff. I believe you can see in episodes of Beat the Judges (I could be wrong) where they actually SHOW the normalization ovens being used.
Sure, there's 4 hours of stressful competition broken into 2-hour blocks followed by ridiculous tests. But we don't see all the boring bits in the background. We don't see all the bits and bobs that go on between the 2-hour forging blocks. We BARELY get a good view of the judging process, let alone the "rigorous tests" after round 2. Unless it's included in the competition requirements, normalizing is a long and tedious process that can be done off camera in standardized ovens designed specifically for the process.
TL;DR - Reality TV is EXTREMELY dramatized, far more than any other entertainment media I can think of, and they leave out an extreme amount of the actual work that goes into just the competitors making their 'product' whether it's blades or cakes.
True. No different than making a cake in an hour, eating it before adequate cooling, and wondering why it tastes like crap and is falling apart.
@@marhawkman303 They also kind of acted like he was just some idiot the entire episode.
you men show such exquisite knowledge on blade and metals dynamics in this application its ridiculous. ive got so much to learn about this topic it only encourages me to watch more and practice my edge alignment. thankyou
2:17
And still YT screws you over regarding showing uploads to people and tanking your ad revenue 😭
In case yall see this, are things any better by now regarding this? Are you more stable?
We're stable thanks to our supporters but not through TH-cam ad revenue alone
You're real people and have provided us entertainment and joy for years as well as fond memories for some members of the community.❤️🔥
They are Hollywood weirdos and therefore aren't really people so they just exist for our entertainment.😅
this is television. it's entirely possible they hide all of the crew and contestants behind barriers or whatever during the testing and just film their reactions after the fact, or have them respond to the footage via a live feed or whatever. It's not that hard to shoot and edit everything to make it appear that it's all happening at the same time in the same room. Still doesn't really excuse them setting a bad example by not really emphasizing safety onscreen, in favor of sensationalism. They just put a "don't try this at home" warning on screen and then show you a bunch of amateurs basically trying it at home. Anyway, the judges/testers do seem to genuinely know what they're doing and understand the risk involved. Probably getting paid a heck of a lot to take it.
The contestant reactions to blades and metal shards flying through the air are clearly not filmed after-the-fact and they are clearly not behind barriers of any sort. If the person actually swinging the weapon who is closest to it has absolutely no protection whatsoever, why would they ever consider giving protection to anyone else who is clearly several feet away already which is clearly their only protective measure.
@@tarrickmerdev2324 there are tons of easy answers to all of this, but basically there is no reason at all to believe that what you're seeing on a reality show is actually the reality of what happened. Reactions can be and are faked constantly, often to make things appear more dramatic and exciting. People are coached to have bigger responses than they would naturally so that it can play well on screen. Hired professionals with recurring roles are treated vastly differently from guests/contestants and crew for all kinds of contractual, legal, insurance reasons etc. There is absolutely no reason to expect that the person being paid to put themselves at risk testing weapons on camera, the job they were hired to do and that the production has cleared insurance requirements for, will be treated the same as everyone else involved.
I do not know anything about the production specifically. I am just saying, they obviously want there to appear to be a lot of danger because that creates a sense of tension and excitement for television. It's highly likely and very plausible that no one besides the person performing the testing is in as much danger as it appears in the final edit. If they were to explain and film all of their safety measures, it would eat up a lot of screen time and mostly not be interesting to the casual viewer. Not that you can't make a show that emphasizes safety on screen, like Mythbusters often did for example, but if displaying safety is not a priority for a show you're just not going to see it, whether it is there or not.
Oh come now Shad! I remember your early tests where I was BEGGING you in the comment sections to wear protective gear, at the very least goggles.
I'm super glad you chaps have moved into making sure to protect yourselves and hope for many more years of content!
Even though this was one of my favourite tv shows, i still wonder and question the veracity of their testings, the time limit they give on their weapon forging and, of course, their choice of not wearing any protective gear besides some flimsy protective goggles, even though some of the weapons they use could and very well would cut them in half if a catastrophic failure were to happen
They're wearing the best protection of all ..... plot armor