I am the guy who started the wiki page on DRS (also the mod on r/BG3Builds). I never thought of your damage tree visualization but I absolutely love it.
Would be good to get a patch 6 update for this, as there seem to be honour mode changes: “Most of the below effects appear to instead be treated as normal damage riders for Honour mode difficulty, so the below tables should only be applied to other difficulty settings.” (From wiki)
Excellent explanation, thank you for laying this out so clearly! When I started BG3 I was coming from tabletop 5e and building based on what I new from that, but I soon started finding that things I expected to work well from tabletop didn't work well at all in 5e, while things that seemed weak based on their in-game description actually did huge damage and I couldn't understand why certain things procced on some various instances of damage but not others. Now I understand it much better!
I took a peek at the wiki and basically just nodded in confusion. Your video however explained it so much better and it only took like two minutes. Thanks for taking the time to make this!
Late to the party and you're probably never going to see this but: if you are not in teaching - the world is missing out. This is a really great explanation as to why enemies go Zap-Burn-BOOM, just because I put some jewelry on, and picked up a nice hat! Kudos!
if anyone is a magic the gathering player, the mechanic works a lot in practice like the stack order of triggers, picture a damage doubler (gratuitous violence, furnace of rath, etc.) and another trigger compounding
Thanks dude! Now i finnally understand the one shot builds out there and am sure not doing any of them, lol. This truly is unintended, but i can understand the convenience in the coding side for larian.
Yeah this is absolutely ridiculous lol. You are plenty powerful without abusing the system, but it's crazy this was allowed in the first place. They may as well increase the level cap to 16 and let players touch god hood.
thanks for the video, I will take a close look at that. However, if I'm not mistaken, many if not most DR's do not proc on DRS (caustic band, hellender gloves, ...) so there should already be a more --- balanced ... system in place that needs to be used.
It's so broken and is working so improperly that it makes it difficult to make a build using any of these elements while remaining balanced. I will not touch the Phalar Aluve until damage riders are fixed/nerfed to apply only once per Action. The game is so easy already even without abusing this.
You dont want damage riders to only proc once per action. That would mean that hunters mark or the callous glow ring wouldnt proc on multiple hits when you have extra attack. That would be a terrible fix.
@@bookablebard once per attack then. Thanks for the correction. I'm not so clear in my understanding of the interaction between what's an attack and what's an action as it relates to extra attack, since the attacks are both part of the same action.
So you're saying that if I have an L12 multi-class stealth archer using the deadshot bow I should be doing more than 16 points of damage with a successful first turn sneak attack that crits, right? I have a feeling I might have no clue what I'm doing.
@@exoethan I really need a 5e book so I can read it all in one place. I know the game differs some but the game is really bad at explaining the mechanics. For example, "If you do a thing wearing this piece of gear, you get two rounds of heat." *Hovers over Heat* Next tooltip (I don't recall what it said but it wasn't helpful at all and being heated doesn't sound very good. I don't want that I don't think. Sounds like it just makes me closer to being on fire. Also too, thank you for this video. I'll have to watch it again because I wasn't clear on some of the basics at the beginning.
one question's is have is why? everything should just proc once why did they implement it this way was it intentional? in table top you just add all the dice and throw it then u add bonuses once. Also with the latest patch did they remove all of this nonsense?
It's such a bad implementation. Riders should only apply once. Any time I make a nice build I have to throw it away because I'm suddenly doing 1000 damage based on a dagger. Like come onn, whole game gets meaningles. Excellent video and breakdown.
Really well explained. I'm not sure why it is the way it is, but atleast it lets me use ultra difficulty increasing mods to abuse all these mechanics fully. There's something satisfying about your 80 health character doing 2000+ damage a turn.
@@sx5r Nothing about Disguise Self was patched. You may confuse this with the change for the Mask of the Shapeshifter, which since Patch 4 now works exactly like the Disguise Self spell.
Do the table top 5e rules work this way as well? If not, I almost think it was just Larians inability to properly math things in the game lol. Still cool to see broken down, and probably more fun to play with
It is probably because there is some spaggetti code in game that breaks if you try to fix these DRS mechanics. Or they just didint bother to fix because it gives players option to break the game and have fun doing so.
No. Many of these things arent even supposed to trigger on multiple attacks from the same parent attck purely by raw (multiple rays of eldritch blast for example). Though many people will argue otherwise. Mainly based off their preffered choice of conflicting sage advice tweets.
seems without Phalar Aluve + Tavern Brawler + thrown weapon, build like this has no sense I tried to implement this tactics to my dual crossbow build and gain no profit :(
Great video, thanks! Saying this isn’t a powerful TB throw build feels…. A bit disingenuous lol. It’s not the best TB thrower, sure, but come on, this is still absolutely ridiculous in the grand scheme of the whole game lol.
Light cleric can use channel divinity or spirit guardians, when enemies are packed together it gives not just radiant damage, but also radiating orb effect is you are usimg certain other items. 1 spell could give an AoE that gives -10 to attack roll, effectively making them unable to hit for several turns.
I'm confused on TB being a DRS, let alone even a DR. I always thought the doubled Strength modifier was part of the initial roll. Does this mean that TB's Strength modifier counts as a separate instance of damage? That's pretty good to know.
You will understand why some procs don’t trigger if you just consider them “untagged” to source I.e not part of the tree, but the “attachment” surrounding the tree. “Attachment” damage only triggers “riders” but cannot trigger other attachment damage. Tavern brawler is one of those. “Environment” damage is phalar aluve, and it triggers on practically everything. Callus glow ring is also “environment” damage, and triggers on everything. That’s why psionic overload feedback damage to the player will also have these extra damage. Not all “riders” will cause extra feedback damage to the player, but all “environment “ damage will. Hope that helps
Just find a better blocker or check a different browser and it's options. I still have no issues from TH-cam with Ublock, Ghosterie and (for incredibly rare situations) Video Download Helper.
I mean these are all broken mechanics and incorrectly ported from 5e mechanics which is why they are broken. I use mods to fix them. They are unbalanced and overpowered.
I am the guy who started the wiki page on DRS (also the mod on r/BG3Builds). I never thought of your damage tree visualization but I absolutely love it.
the world needs more people like you, thanks
It was that page you created that brought me here, via a TH-cam search for the title of that page. Thank you!
Would be good to get a patch 6 update for this, as there seem to be honour mode changes: “Most of the below effects appear to instead be treated as normal damage riders for Honour mode difficulty, so the below tables should only be applied to other difficulty settings.” (From wiki)
Excellent explanation, thank you for laying this out so clearly! When I started BG3 I was coming from tabletop 5e and building based on what I new from that, but I soon started finding that things I expected to work well from tabletop didn't work well at all in 5e, while things that seemed weak based on their in-game description actually did huge damage and I couldn't understand why certain things procced on some various instances of damage but not others. Now I understand it much better!
I took a peek at the wiki and basically just nodded in confusion. Your video however explained it so much better and it only took like two minutes. Thanks for taking the time to make this!
"99+22d4 is an okay TB thrower build." Is a crazy thing to say. I'm not saying it isn't true, but it's a crazy thing to say out loud.
I just realized, after being halfway thru my second playthru and watching your video, that I have no idea how BG3 works 😳
I have no idea what i just watched, but I can tell you're passionate, so have a thumb up dude 👍
Finally, this is the clearest DS DR DSR explanation that I’m looking for. Those pictures and examples are well done for understanding.
Late to the party and you're probably never going to see this but: if you are not in teaching - the world is missing out. This is a really great explanation as to why enemies go Zap-Burn-BOOM, just because I put some jewelry on, and picked up a nice hat! Kudos!
doesnt work in honour mode anyway
and on normal bosses die in one turn without any abuse
so its basically no use
if anyone is a magic the gathering player, the mechanic works a lot in practice like the stack order of triggers, picture a damage doubler (gratuitous violence, furnace of rath, etc.) and another trigger compounding
This is still one of the best BG3 videos of all time
This is genuinely a top tier video. Well done 👍
Thanks dude!
Now i finnally understand the one shot builds out there and am sure not doing any of them, lol.
This truly is unintended, but i can understand the convenience in the coding side for larian.
Yeah this is absolutely ridiculous lol. You are plenty powerful without abusing the system, but it's crazy this was allowed in the first place. They may as well increase the level cap to 16 and let players touch god hood.
I already had understood drs but your video is great i had to watch
Awesome video! Thank you for doing the maths.
thanks for the video, I will take a close look at that.
However, if I'm not mistaken, many if not most DR's do not proc on DRS (caustic band, hellender gloves, ...) so there should already be a more --- balanced ... system in place that needs to be used.
It's so broken and is working so improperly that it makes it difficult to make a build using any of these elements while remaining balanced. I will not touch the Phalar Aluve until damage riders are fixed/nerfed to apply only once per Action. The game is so easy already even without abusing this.
You dont want damage riders to only proc once per action. That would mean that hunters mark or the callous glow ring wouldnt proc on multiple hits when you have extra attack. That would be a terrible fix.
@@bookablebard once per attack then. Thanks for the correction. I'm not so clear in my understanding of the interaction between what's an attack and what's an action as it relates to extra attack, since the attacks are both part of the same action.
Have you thought about visualizing DRS as a damage tree?
All I want for christmas is a playthrough with commentary when youre playing nightmare moda :D
Quick question, if Stalker Gloves procs another instance of Phalar Aluve, why doesn't Phalar Aluve proc another instance of Stalker gloves?
Good to know I'm oine of the ethical TB enjoyers ; )
So you're saying that if I have an L12 multi-class stealth archer using the deadshot bow I should be doing more than 16 points of damage with a successful first turn sneak attack that crits, right?
I have a feeling I might have no clue what I'm doing.
After careful consideration, I am inclined to agree with you on that one.
@@exoethan I really need a 5e book so I can read it all in one place. I know the game differs some but the game is really bad at explaining the mechanics.
For example, "If you do a thing wearing this piece of gear, you get two rounds of heat."
*Hovers over Heat*
Next tooltip (I don't recall what it said but it wasn't helpful at all and being heated doesn't sound very good. I don't want that I don't think. Sounds like it just makes me closer to being on fire.
Also too, thank you for this video. I'll have to watch it again because I wasn't clear on some of the basics at the beginning.
The game differs far more than "some" from 5e. It is a divinity original sin game that was attempted to be ported to 5e rules.
Wow, great video.
Id like to see this example now with the TB nerf in non-honour mode.
there isn't one - DRS mechanics are gone completely, not just the TB nerf
one question's is have is why? everything should just proc once why did they implement it this way was it intentional? in table top you just add all the dice and throw it then u add bonuses once. Also with the latest patch did they remove all of this nonsense?
Tavern brawler... thrown (sword no... lightning only)
It's such a bad implementation. Riders should only apply once.
Any time I make a nice build I have to throw it away because I'm suddenly doing 1000 damage based on a dagger. Like come onn, whole game gets meaningles.
Excellent video and breakdown.
dude just hit over 200 dmg with a crab claw
im doing BG3 wrong
Great works! I wonder Symbiotic Entity is DR or DRS?
Really well explained. I'm not sure why it is the way it is, but atleast it lets me use ultra difficulty increasing mods to abuse all these mechanics fully. There's something satisfying about your 80 health character doing 2000+ damage a turn.
Great explanation! But I seriously hope that Larian patches it out because this shit is not OK lmao
Bro, how do those guards have over 800 hp???
Dwarven Thrower also has a DRS as long as you are a Dwarf (or are disguised as a Dwarf) and it has homing, so it doesn't require EK.
imho the disguise option was patched out with the most recent update (I used that on a helper char before)
@@sx5r I've just checked and it works for me.
@@sx5r Nothing about Disguise Self was patched. You may confuse this with the change for the Mask of the Shapeshifter, which since Patch 4 now works exactly like the Disguise Self spell.
Do the table top 5e rules work this way as well? If not, I almost think it was just Larians inability to properly math things in the game lol. Still cool to see broken down, and probably more fun to play with
It is probably because there is some spaggetti code in game that breaks if you try to fix these DRS mechanics. Or they just didint bother to fix because it gives players option to break the game and have fun doing so.
No. This is just some dumb coding choices having been made.
Absolutely not lol
No. Many of these things arent even supposed to trigger on multiple attacks from the same parent attck purely by raw (multiple rays of eldritch blast for example). Though many people will argue otherwise. Mainly based off their preffered choice of conflicting sage advice tweets.
No, damage bonus in tabletop are applied on a per-attack/per-cast basis, not a per damage roll basis.
sorry, but how sneak attack works with throwing?
sneak attack can activate as a reaction anytime you attack an enemy with advantage. this includes thrown attacks.
@@exoethan thanks
thank you!!
seems without Phalar Aluve + Tavern Brawler + thrown weapon, build like this has no sense
I tried to implement this tactics to my dual crossbow build and gain no profit :(
Great video, thanks! Saying this isn’t a powerful TB throw build feels…. A bit disingenuous lol. It’s not the best TB thrower, sure, but come on, this is still absolutely ridiculous in the grand scheme of the whole game lol.
DRS ARE AWESOME!!11
Also, why use Lightning Jabber and not Nyrulna? Is Nyrulna's thowing damage bonus not able to activate all of this?
Many reasons, but generally speaking, yes, Nyrulna is not a "thrown weapon", so it doesn't proc all of the DRS in this video.
Curious to know why you rate Luminous Armour so highly. Is there a particular way/build you like to abuse it?
Light cleric can use channel divinity or spirit guardians, when enemies are packed together it gives not just radiant damage, but also radiating orb effect is you are usimg certain other items. 1 spell could give an AoE that gives -10 to attack roll, effectively making them unable to hit for several turns.
Hello Ethan,
the author of the mod Immersive AI recommend to not use Lethal AI along their mod, what do you think ?
you can use both. using one without the other makes the AI more focused on immersion, or lethality. Both together is a mix of both.
I'm confused on TB being a DRS, let alone even a DR. I always thought the doubled Strength modifier was part of the initial roll. Does this mean that TB's Strength modifier counts as a separate instance of damage? That's pretty good to know.
"TB's Strength modifier counts as a separate instance of damage" is exactly correct. And it wasn't just a separate instance, it was a source as well.
What happens when you land a critical hit?
All damage dice will be rolled twice and added to each other. I.e. the 22d4 becomes 44d4.
You will understand why some procs don’t trigger if you just consider them “untagged” to source I.e not part of the tree, but the “attachment” surrounding the tree. “Attachment” damage only triggers “riders” but cannot trigger other attachment damage. Tavern brawler is one of those. “Environment” damage is phalar aluve, and it triggers on practically everything. Callus glow ring is also “environment” damage, and triggers on everything. That’s why psionic overload feedback damage to the player will also have these extra damage. Not all “riders” will cause extra feedback damage to the player, but all “environment “ damage will. Hope that helps
I've been refering to them as generalist DRs, but untagged is actually another good way to put it.
Did this ever get patched or is this intentional?
1d4 damage is trash
not until you can trigger it 10x times in one hit :)
Written format is better because TH-cam are being douchy about adblockers now, so I'm going to stop using them.
Just find a better blocker or check a different browser and it's options. I still have no issues from TH-cam with Ublock, Ghosterie and (for incredibly rare situations) Video Download Helper.
I mean these are all broken mechanics and incorrectly ported from 5e mechanics which is why they are broken. I use mods to fix them. They are unbalanced and overpowered.
Need better thumbnail, label as damage stacking with a flow chart.
Excellent video, not needed by me because I am an expert, but others will get a lot from this.
Excellent comment, not needed by me because I am an expert, but others will get a lot from this.
Excellent expert, not needed by me because I am a master, but others will get a lot from this.
@@niklasstahl98 Excellent mastery, not need by me i am god, but humans will get a lot from this