I honestly think this is the best supplement for any rpg ever. A clean 10 out of 10 for me. I'm in awe of the scope of this book. And while it doesn't contain any ordinary scenarios, the locations have some much story potential that I don't think it is needed. In fact I think that any predefined intro-scenarios would have lessened the scope of the content. I much prefer the way the book discusses all the ways characters could end up in Moria and let you build your own epic delve (through the journey rules, the random chamber generator, the random foe generator, the list of themes and finally the spectacular locations).
Bofur is my favorite dwarf because he’s got a heart as big as his hammer, always ready to crack a joke even when the world’s crumbling around him. He’s the kind of guy who’ll share his last drink with you, singing old songs off-key, making the dark a little less terrifying, and proving that courage doesn’t always come with a sword but sometimes with a smile and a stubborn refusal to give in.
Balin. Most of the elder peoples in Tolkien are fatalistic and believe that they can never equal their ancestors, choosing not to fight against the coming of the dark. While Theoden fought, he did so as the last remnant of a dying house whose greatest days were behind it, and only after being pushed to extremes. Balin took the fight to the enemy unprompted with the full intent of equaling if not surpassing his ancestor Durin. Of course, Tolkien killed him for it. Nevertheless, Balin is one of the few characters in Middle Earth with true spirit.
Balin because he was the most friendly and amicable of the elder dwarves towards other folk. That and he was always positive and looked on the brighter side of things.
As someone who recently bought ToR 2e, I loved this page-through. I know what my next RPG purchase will be! My favorite dwarf is, unsurprisingly, Gimli. The scene with Galadriel was heart-melting even if you do not know or care about the significance of it. And come on, most of us folks enjoyed the hell out of John Rhys-Davies' performance!
Thorin Oakenshield is my favorite from the appendices of the return of the king where they fight the orcs at moria. He has to pick up an oak to protect himself. The battle being so bloody that they must take up the weapons and armor of the orcs so the cannot be used by surviving orcs.
King Azaghal, Lord of Belgost from chapter 20 of the Silmarillion. The dwarves of Belgost are always faithful and shown in a better light than the dwarves of Nogrod. They come out in metal masks and hew at Glaurung father of dragons in single combat. They cover the retreat of the other free peoples, and then suddenly form up a procession, and sing a dirge as they carry their slain king from the battle. It's just an incredibly cinematic scene and the dwarves of old locked in melee combat with the mighty wyrm is just so cool. I know it's a minor story and a minor character, but the bravery against incredible odds is pretty awesome. As far as more fleshed out dwarves, it's gotta be Balin. I love that we get the tie in in lord of the rings when they find his tomb. Sad though. But that he tired to recolonize Moria, and somewhat succeeded for a time? That combined with his adventures with Bilbo seals the deal.
Balin was such a standout being kind of a right hand man to Thorin and a good friend to Bilbo even after the Hobbit. He was well portrayed in the movies as well, which I enjoyed mainly due to the performances.
Outstanding review. Really appreciate all your gaming coverage in general, and your coverage of C7 and now FL's ToR2 in particular. Nice video intro too, I think it's new and it's a good one.
Thorin, King under the Mountain! Noble, stubborn, loyal, complex. And played by Richard Armitage in the films, so he's also Castlevania's Trevor Belmont!
Gimli is my favorite dwarf. When I first played RPGs I thought of him as depicted in Bakshi's LoTR version. Plus there is a small town named Gimli in my province.
Great review. As for the greatest Dwarf, Thorin was the 'template' dwarf for a pre-teen me, the dwarf that meant that I played dwarf characters in D&D and other fantasy games for the next 30+ years. My WoW character was a dwarf. And all that started with Thorin Oakenshield, and later years allowed me to understand his flaws and limitations. However, he was the first great dwarf, the dwarf that captured my mind, spirit, and soul all those many years ago. I'm wondering if we will get an adventure book for Moria. A Moria + ?Adventures? in a similar fashion to Ruins of the Lost Realm + Tales from the Lone-Lands quasi pairing.
This looks cool. Love that The One Ring art. As far as my favorite Dwarf? This probably makes me pretty "basic," but Gimli. Probably just because we get to spend a lot more time with him. I tend to find the Dwarves in The Hobbit blend together, where as Gimli is able to stand on his own. I'm also a big fan of stories where people overcome cultural differences to become friends, and that's a big part of Gimli's story.
Free League does just a good job with The One Ring! I liked the first edition, but the Second offer the same with streamlined rules! And, Balin, definitely the Balin! 😊
My favorite dwarf is seeing John Rhys-Davies play Gimli. Even though Gimli is different in the book and in the movie he is mostly comedic relief. I still think this is a great portrayal of the character for the movie version. It's John Rhys-Davies, he is great in everything. Great Flip through. I am also a big fan of line art in my RPGs. I finally got a copy of the One Ring during Free Leagues Summer Sale along with the starter set. i am still reading it, but like what I see.
Hi Jeff, thanks for the review. I just picked up The One Ring from Free League and was wondering about this book. My favorite Dwarf has to be Nori, as I often yell his name from my back door… because my daughters named our poodle after him! Hah. Thank you.
Awesome review. My favorite dwarf is Gimli. The scene from extended version of the Fellowship. Where it's revealed he asked Galadriel for a strain of hair. And she gave him three. Definitely made Gimli heroic with heart. Have fun at Gen Con
Hey Jeff! Love the channel. I don't know how you get through so many reviews! But I love it! My favourite dwarf has to be Gimli! His character was fantastic in the books, but John Rhys-Davies' performance made him an absolutely unforgettable character
Thorin Oakenshiled. Although heroic and a true leader, his flaw, of needing to be King Under the Mountin again - whatever the cost - gives him true depth of character. To me, this makes him far more interesting than some of the more one-dimensional characters in Tolkein's books (though, to be fair, there aren't a great deal of those).
Thorin Oakenshield. The paragon of dwarven stoicism and greed, really the perfect stereotype for adventure, especially playing off someone like Bilbo. The movies did him justice, too.
I like Gloin son of Groin, because he is noted for his stoutness and battle prowess (likes to battle with the axe). He fought in the Battle of Five Armies and after the battle, he made his home in the Lonely Mountain where Smaug the dragon lived. Gloin is also notable for being the father of Gimli. Nice review Jeff, wish you well!
Although I've not been overly tempted by The One Ring so far, this book has really got my Tolkien brain ticking again. Aaagh - Flippin' Free League! …and Gaming Gang reviews leading me into temptation 😉 My favourite Tolkien dwarf is Mim. I read about him in the Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion. Tragic character really, but a properly relatable story. He can't return home and it turns out, as a further indignity, the elves have renamed everywhere he once knew. Then his son is senselessly killed and his crappy cave is found by orcs, all because of Turin's mates. I later discovered he was named after the Nibelung, Mime, who raised Siegfried in the Ring Cycle. I recognised a fragment of one of Mime's songs, from the Siegfried opera, that my dad used to sing (Dad was a trained tenor). So Mim became my favourite. My missus favourite dwarf is definitely Kili, because of the movies, Aidan Turner, and the (totally non-Tolkien) tragic romance with the Evangeline Lilly's Tauriel. Strangely, my dearly departed mum had a least-favourite dwarf, Bofur, again because of the movies. When the Hobbit was on the telly once, she noticed it was James Nesbitt and said, 'I can't stand that man.' She'd fed him once at a wedding and, apparently, he behaved like an arrogant, over-entitled dick. Seriously uncool to have a go at young waitresses and the ladies looking after you, just because you can. Hope GenCon is awesome… and that Comic-Con left you with a little cash and not trapped in an elevator! Although, maybe, being stuck with Jennifer Garner could have had its upside 😄
I love them all since I first read the Hobbit, buuuut I really think Gimly is the greatest, and Galadriel think so too. There are some theories saying he was the only dwarf who saw the undying lands.
Gotta say it's OG Durin, Gimli's poem/song painted a hell of a picture, and when you really dig in he and all the dwarves just become to cool. It's really sad that they just 'fade' in the end :/ Really feels like they got the short end of the stick you know?
Good to know the competition is available to us this side of the pond. Gimli is favourite Dwarf in Middle Earth because he represents all that’s best in Dwarven culture
Hello Jeff! You must be on your way to Gen Con right now. Have an awesome time while you're there! It was a welcoming surprise to find your review of Moria today. I was really looking forward to watching this one and hear your thoughts. About the contest... I remember the first time I read The Hobbit and I felt a strong connection with Thorin. So, that's my favorite dwarf today :D Awesome review Jeff! Thank you!
Thanks for the review! Honestly, I'm never sure how do you conceptually run campaigns in such an established world, I think I'd make it clear to my group that anything from the point we start playing isn't guaranteed,.so there's complete agency and no need to make things fit. As to my favourite Dwarf, I believe it's a function of the time I got to spend with him, and so Gimli abd Balin are the 2 contenders for me. The heart wants to go woth Gimli, the head with Balin- for yhe sheer gull and ferocity. Even if you stumble and fall, one shouldn't stop aspiring and trying to reach and achieve the (seemingly) impossible. So I guess Balin wins
The One Ring core rulebook has some excellent advice on interacting with canon. The game being set between the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings helps too - there's lots of gaps to fill in and questions a group of PCs can help answer. For example, TOR 1e's "Darkening of Mirkwood" campaign lets the PCs answer the question "What happened to the Woodmen" as we read about them in the Hobbit but don't get much on them subsequently. Some people like to stick with canon (and the rulebook gives good advice here, noting Tolkien shifted things as he went), but I adopt the approach you suggest - the PCs actions can change subsequent events. But even if you're living various canon events fixed, there is still plenty of room for heroism or tragic failure. Middle Earth is a big place, and there are many years to tell stories in.
Like many in the comments, I really like Gimli. He is very representative of my idea of dwarf ideals; stout of heart, humor (even when he is not trying to be funny, lol) and enjoys the vices of too much ale and a bit of the ol' Toby.
Hi Jeff, would love to enter the mini competition. I like Dwalin because he is a loyal and dependable friend, has a true warrior spirit and strong moments of warmth and brotherhood in spite of his rough exterior.
Not Tolkein, but Pratchett: Glod, a very short-tempered Dwarf, but not for the usual straightforward reason - that using a term like "short-tempered dwarf" where a dwarf can hear it is likely to very shortly become a self-fulfilling prophecy. No, it's all down to a curse placed on the Klatchian Seriph of Al-Ybi by an unfortunately dyslexic deity. This particular Seriph, at least until the curse was lifted, was forced to endure a situation where everything he touched turned to Glod. Glod being a terminally bad-tempered dwarf from somewhere near the Hub, made more so by being magically transported to a desert city on the Circle Sea and magically duplicated a few thousand times... it is said that to this day, the population of one city is unusually short in stature and bad-tempered. To add to Glod's woes, towards the end of her life, legendary witch Black Aliss made the same sort of elementary spelling mistake when she tried to put the frighteners onto a minor royal family who she felt were not showing her enough respect. She duly cursed the princess into having to spin straw into Glod, which must have led to a vast surplus of short-tempered dwarfs being called into existence within the precincts of that palace. According to the memory of Nanny Ogg, she had to be given a large amount of money to go away and not make a scene.
Sleepy is my favourite dwarf. He is totally blasé about events around him and would rather take a nap. He missed the whole Hobbit expedition as he went to take a nap in one of Bilbo's cupboards and they all left without him.
I've gotta love Gimli for his tender heart. His shy crush on elves and Galadriel in the books was so heartwarming.
I honestly think this is the best supplement for any rpg ever. A clean 10 out of 10 for me. I'm in awe of the scope of this book. And while it doesn't contain any ordinary scenarios, the locations have some much story potential that I don't think it is needed. In fact I think that any predefined intro-scenarios would have lessened the scope of the content. I much prefer the way the book discusses all the ways characters could end up in Moria and let you build your own epic delve (through the journey rules, the random chamber generator, the random foe generator, the list of themes and finally the spectacular locations).
Bofur is my favorite dwarf because he’s got a heart as big as his hammer, always ready to crack a joke even when the world’s crumbling around him. He’s the kind of guy who’ll share his last drink with you, singing old songs off-key, making the dark a little less terrifying, and proving that courage doesn’t always come with a sword but sometimes with a smile and a stubborn refusal to give in.
Gimli, for he was the tolkenian paragon of friendship, overcoming the centuries of distrust between elves and dwarves.
Balin. Most of the elder peoples in Tolkien are fatalistic and believe that they can never equal their ancestors, choosing not to fight against the coming of the dark. While Theoden fought, he did so as the last remnant of a dying house whose greatest days were behind it, and only after being pushed to extremes. Balin took the fight to the enemy unprompted with the full intent of equaling if not surpassing his ancestor Durin. Of course, Tolkien killed him for it. Nevertheless, Balin is one of the few characters in Middle Earth with true spirit.
Balin because he was the most friendly and amicable of the elder dwarves towards other folk. That and he was always positive and looked on the brighter side of things.
As someone who recently bought ToR 2e, I loved this page-through. I know what my next RPG purchase will be!
My favorite dwarf is, unsurprisingly, Gimli. The scene with Galadriel was heart-melting even if you do not know or care about the significance of it. And come on, most of us folks enjoyed the hell out of John Rhys-Davies' performance!
I love Thorin. He’s always been my favorite!! He’s a complex character and I tend to like following those characters.
Gimli has to be my favorite Tolkien dwarf. I love his arc of friendship with Legolas.
Thorin Oakenshield. A great and proud leader, kicked off the entire Tolkien legendarium for me in _The Hobbit_ when I was child.
I think you sold me on adding one ring to my collection :)
It’s such a good game! Though even if you never play it, I’ve loved even reading everything they’ve put out for it
FYI--The cloth map of Moria is also pretty damn cool.
Thorin Oakenshield is my favorite from the appendices of the return of the king where they fight the orcs at moria. He has to pick up an oak to protect himself. The battle being so bloody that they must take up the weapons and armor of the orcs so the cannot be used by surviving orcs.
I'm so glad that Free League Publishing picked up and took over license from that other company.
King Azaghal, Lord of Belgost from chapter 20 of the Silmarillion. The dwarves of Belgost are always faithful and shown in a better light than the dwarves of Nogrod. They come out in metal masks and hew at Glaurung father of dragons in single combat. They cover the retreat of the other free peoples, and then suddenly form up a procession, and sing a dirge as they carry their slain king from the battle. It's just an incredibly cinematic scene and the dwarves of old locked in melee combat with the mighty wyrm is just so cool. I know it's a minor story and a minor character, but the bravery against incredible odds is pretty awesome.
As far as more fleshed out dwarves, it's gotta be Balin. I love that we get the tie in in lord of the rings when they find his tomb. Sad though. But that he tired to recolonize Moria, and somewhat succeeded for a time? That combined with his adventures with Bilbo seals the deal.
I have to say Gimli. He speaks so well to Galadriel, is the deadliest member of the fellowship, and is the only Dwarf to go to the Undying Lands.
Balin was such a standout being kind of a right hand man to Thorin and a good friend to Bilbo even after the Hobbit.
He was well portrayed in the movies as well, which I enjoyed mainly due to the performances.
Thorin Oakenshield and his touching speech to Bilbo while lying on his deathbed.
Outstanding review. Really appreciate all your gaming coverage in general, and your coverage of C7 and now FL's ToR2 in particular. Nice video intro too, I think it's new and it's a good one.
Gimli is my favorite. He inspired me to play my first ward character in Dungeons and Dragons back in the late 70s. Great memories. Great video!
Thorin, King under the Mountain! Noble, stubborn, loyal, complex. And played by Richard Armitage in the films, so he's also Castlevania's Trevor Belmont!
Gimli is my favorite dwarf. When I first played RPGs I thought of him as depicted in Bakshi's LoTR version. Plus there is a small town named Gimli in my province.
Thorin is my favourite dwarf. He is the most complex of the dwarf characters, with interesting facets and a touching character arc.
Great review. As for the greatest Dwarf, Thorin was the 'template' dwarf for a pre-teen me, the dwarf that meant that I played dwarf characters in D&D and other fantasy games for the next 30+ years. My WoW character was a dwarf. And all that started with Thorin Oakenshield, and later years allowed me to understand his flaws and limitations. However, he was the first great dwarf, the dwarf that captured my mind, spirit, and soul all those many years ago.
I'm wondering if we will get an adventure book for Moria. A Moria + ?Adventures? in a similar fashion to Ruins of the Lost Realm + Tales from the Lone-Lands quasi pairing.
This looks cool. Love that The One Ring art.
As far as my favorite Dwarf? This probably makes me pretty "basic," but Gimli. Probably just because we get to spend a lot more time with him. I tend to find the Dwarves in The Hobbit blend together, where as Gimli is able to stand on his own. I'm also a big fan of stories where people overcome cultural differences to become friends, and that's a big part of Gimli's story.
Free League does just a good job with The One Ring!
I liked the first edition, but the Second offer the same with streamlined rules!
And, Balin, definitely the Balin! 😊
My favorite dwarf is seeing John Rhys-Davies play Gimli. Even though Gimli is different in the book and in the movie he is mostly comedic relief. I still think this is a great portrayal of the character for the movie version. It's John Rhys-Davies, he is great in everything.
Great Flip through. I am also a big fan of line art in my RPGs. I finally got a copy of the One Ring during Free Leagues Summer Sale along with the starter set. i am still reading it, but like what I see.
Hi Jeff, thanks for the review. I just picked up The One Ring from Free League and was wondering about this book. My favorite Dwarf has to be Nori, as I often yell his name from my back door… because my daughters named our poodle after him! Hah. Thank you.
Awesome review.
My favorite dwarf is Gimli.
The scene from extended version of the Fellowship.
Where it's revealed he asked Galadriel for a strain of hair. And she gave him three.
Definitely made Gimli heroic with heart.
Have fun at Gen Con
"Extended version of the Fellowship..." You mean the book?
Hey Jeff! Love the channel. I don't know how you get through so many reviews! But I love it!
My favourite dwarf has to be Gimli! His character was fantastic in the books, but John Rhys-Davies' performance made him an absolutely unforgettable character
I have to say Gimli because he represents to best of the dwarves with his courage and loyalty.
Don’t tell the elf! …but toss me that book! Gimli is my favourite dwarf. He has many iconic moments brave, funny and moving.
Thorin Oakenshiled. Although heroic and a true leader, his flaw, of needing to be King Under the Mountin again - whatever the cost - gives him true depth of character. To me, this makes him far more interesting than some of the more one-dimensional characters in Tolkein's books (though, to be fair, there aren't a great deal of those).
Thorin Oakenshield. The paragon of dwarven stoicism and greed, really the perfect stereotype for adventure, especially playing off someone like Bilbo. The movies did him justice, too.
Hmm. Favorite Dwarf? Balin resonates the most with me, but I like them all.
Most people will say Gimli, but I'll go with Bombur because he likely ended up on the dwarven edition of my 600 lb Life and he deserves some love.
I like Gloin son of Groin, because he is noted for his stoutness and battle prowess (likes to battle with the axe). He fought in the Battle of Five Armies and after the battle, he made his home in the Lonely Mountain where Smaug the dragon lived. Gloin is also notable for being the father of Gimli. Nice review Jeff, wish you well!
My favorite Dwarf is the bombastic Gimli. He is faithful, devoted to the ones he loves, and very personable as a Character. Great review and advice!
Dain II (dain ironfoot) for being a total badass and slaying Azog (in the book lore).
Although I've not been overly tempted by The One Ring so far, this book has really got my Tolkien brain ticking again.
Aaagh - Flippin' Free League!
…and Gaming Gang reviews leading me into temptation 😉
My favourite Tolkien dwarf is Mim.
I read about him in the Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion.
Tragic character really, but a properly relatable story.
He can't return home and it turns out, as a further indignity, the elves have renamed everywhere he once knew. Then his son is senselessly killed and his crappy cave is found by orcs, all because of Turin's mates.
I later discovered he was named after the Nibelung, Mime, who raised Siegfried in the Ring Cycle. I recognised a fragment of one of Mime's songs, from the Siegfried opera, that my dad used to sing (Dad was a trained tenor). So Mim became my favourite.
My missus favourite dwarf is definitely Kili, because of the movies, Aidan Turner, and the (totally non-Tolkien) tragic romance with the Evangeline Lilly's Tauriel.
Strangely, my dearly departed mum had a least-favourite dwarf, Bofur, again because of the movies. When the Hobbit was on the telly once, she noticed it was James Nesbitt and said, 'I can't stand that man.'
She'd fed him once at a wedding and, apparently, he behaved like an arrogant, over-entitled dick. Seriously uncool to have a go at young waitresses and the ladies looking after you, just because you can.
Hope GenCon is awesome… and that Comic-Con left you with a little cash and not trapped in an elevator! Although, maybe, being stuck with Jennifer Garner could have had its upside 😄
Gotta be Bombur. Just an absolute unit of a dwarf.
Bombur is the best dwarf hands down.
I love them all since I first read the Hobbit, buuuut I really think Gimly is the greatest, and Galadriel think so too. There are some theories saying he was the only dwarf who saw the undying lands.
As always, excellent review. I’ve always had a fondness for Gimli. His affection for Galadriel was always fascinating to me.
Gotta say it's OG Durin, Gimli's poem/song painted a hell of a picture, and when you really dig in he and all the dwarves just become to cool. It's really sad that they just 'fade' in the end :/ Really feels like they got the short end of the stick you know?
Good to know the competition is available to us this side of the pond. Gimli is favourite Dwarf in Middle Earth because he represents all that’s best in Dwarven culture
Hello Jeff! You must be on your way to Gen Con right now. Have an awesome time while you're there! It was a welcoming surprise to find your review of Moria today. I was really looking forward to watching this one and hear your thoughts. About the contest... I remember the first time I read The Hobbit and I felt a strong connection with Thorin. So, that's my favorite dwarf today :D Awesome review Jeff! Thank you!
Thanks for the review!
Honestly, I'm never sure how do you conceptually run campaigns in such an established world, I think I'd make it clear to my group that anything from the point we start playing isn't guaranteed,.so there's complete agency and no need to make things fit.
As to my favourite Dwarf, I believe it's a function of the time I got to spend with him, and so Gimli abd Balin are the 2 contenders for me. The heart wants to go woth Gimli, the head with Balin- for yhe sheer gull and ferocity. Even if you stumble and fall, one shouldn't stop aspiring and trying to reach and achieve the (seemingly) impossible.
So I guess Balin wins
The One Ring core rulebook has some excellent advice on interacting with canon. The game being set between the Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings helps too - there's lots of gaps to fill in and questions a group of PCs can help answer. For example, TOR 1e's "Darkening of Mirkwood" campaign lets the PCs answer the question "What happened to the Woodmen" as we read about them in the Hobbit but don't get much on them subsequently.
Some people like to stick with canon (and the rulebook gives good advice here, noting Tolkien shifted things as he went), but I adopt the approach you suggest - the PCs actions can change subsequent events. But even if you're living various canon events fixed, there is still plenty of room for heroism or tragic failure. Middle Earth is a big place, and there are many years to tell stories in.
Like many in the comments, I really like Gimli. He is very representative of my idea of dwarf ideals; stout of heart, humor (even when he is not trying to be funny, lol) and enjoys the vices of too much ale and a bit of the ol' Toby.
This book looks great.
Hi Jeff, would love to enter the mini competition. I like Dwalin because he is a loyal and dependable friend, has a true warrior spirit and strong moments of warmth and brotherhood in spite of his rough exterior.
Not Tolkein, but Pratchett:
Glod, a very short-tempered Dwarf, but not for the usual straightforward reason - that using a term like "short-tempered dwarf" where a dwarf can hear it is likely to very shortly become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
No, it's all down to a curse placed on the Klatchian Seriph of Al-Ybi by an unfortunately dyslexic deity. This particular Seriph, at least until the curse was lifted, was forced to endure a situation where everything he touched turned to Glod. Glod being a terminally bad-tempered dwarf from somewhere near the Hub, made more so by being magically transported to a desert city on the Circle Sea and magically duplicated a few thousand times... it is said that to this day, the population of one city is unusually short in stature and bad-tempered.
To add to Glod's woes, towards the end of her life, legendary witch Black Aliss made the same sort of elementary spelling mistake when she tried to put the frighteners onto a minor royal family who she felt were not showing her enough respect. She duly cursed the princess into having to spin straw into Glod, which must have led to a vast surplus of short-tempered dwarfs being called into existence within the precincts of that palace. According to the memory of Nanny Ogg, she had to be given a large amount of money to go away and not make a scene.
Sleepy is my favourite dwarf. He is totally blasé about events around him and would rather take a nap. He missed the whole Hobbit expedition as he went to take a nap in one of Bilbo's cupboards and they all left without him.
Gimli!
Gimli for me. I'm not a fan of the clown version of him in the movies, but still is my prefered dwarf.
I'm only really familiar with Gimli.