I really appreciate your first six minutes. In my inhouse machining I often face the same thing - it's more efficient to cut something larger from stock to start with to make the whole part and let the inserts pay the price. Something came up today wherein I will start with a piece of 3" and have maybe 15% of the material remaining. The chip barrels fill but the part is uniform with zero potential problems from any shortcuts. I know what you are saying yet it's nice to hear someone else say it.
If you have few parts to make, machining from billet is indeed more cost efficient than dealing with the tooling and effort of setting up a more complicated process.
I don’t usually comment on anything on TH-cam. I have been machining for about 25 years. Most of what I see is people learning and trying to teach at the same time. That’s ok with me, but that has to be in context. On your page we get to learn from experience. Thank you and keep up the good work.
I normally just watch the CAM operations in your videos, but after watching this, I can now appreciate the details that have to be considered for the work flow / preparation that goes into the part even though the client provided a CAD model and dwg.
This model was simple. It takes more time usually. Some models have to be repaired before they can be used. They really should be a solid. Some models come in as a bunch of surfaces.
I think all the job shop machinists understood why it was being done that way. People, hobbyists mostly, tend to throw out ideas that they've seen on TH-cam or Instagram, without really understanding the economics of job shop work. They don't understand that, a lot of the time, you have to work with tooling and machine capabilities. Your content is great and I've followed since you had like 400 subscribers. Keep 'em coming man.
Thanks Michael, Yes I am trying to make people understand. I think many people are interested and want to comment. To participate if you will. I do appreciate all comments.
Yes, argee fully. It is the case in a lot of job shops you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want or need to do the absolute best job.
Been Machining 3 weeks straight no day off and here I am on my only day off watching Ypur maching videos I love this trade thanks for all the knowledge you share
Peter you don't have to have second thought on speaking and sharing stuff like this. people who watch your stuff really like to see how you do it. Thanks as always.
If the customer wants something a certain way you do it that way. Idk why its so hard for people to understand. And its not like we throw the chips away, they will get recycled. And the customer is paying for it.
Idk what kinda jobs you get to work on but we quote a job and of we go over the quote that's on us. How do y'all handle pricing? Do customers just send you work and have no idea what it'll cost?
@@spazzywhitebelt yea but if your doing work for a huge company like gm or ge or any large company the and the engineers want something a certain way, then you do it just how they want. Sometimes they don't sell the stock close to the size you need so you have to rough some extra off. Yea not every customer is like this but you quote work for how the customer wants it done. If you can make good money off of the job who care if you have to ruff off alot of material the customer knows that and thats what they expect.
@@DRrandomman22 yup, I haven't seen the whole video so didn't know the context of your comment. It'd sure be nice to just do time and materials instead of spending time quoting a job that you may not end up getting haha. Sometimes we make away like bandits on jobs and other times it's like a bandit made their way through our shop once all's said and done haha. Just keep chugging along and learn
Thanks Peter, outstanding level of clarity and knowledge, you have a very good way of explaining the details involved in these jobs. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Have a nice weekend.
It is a bit counterintuitive that this much roughing is the solution here. You did a really good job explaining it. I am studying to be an engineer, and your videos show me a lot of things I should consider when designing stuff.
As a welder and machinist I want to offer you some advice based on real world experience. Learn within your engineering discipline how what you design is going to be manufactured and built. Understanding how things are manufactured and the limitations and capabilities of that will help your engineering career.
If every engineer was required to spend a 6-12 month stint working on, building, or otherwise operating the equipment they design, life would be so much easier for everyone involved.
@@WilliamPayneNZ Engineer and hobby machinist here: You are absolutely right. Sadly the manufacturing side of engineering doesn`t get enough attention at the universities (my observation/opinion). I my opinion it is essential to know how things are fanufactured because otherwise you really don‘t know how to design things properly.
Mister Muster. People replying to your comment are spot on. I was told by some old engineers long ago that the best engineers were experienced machinists first. The context was manufacturing engineering but I’d bet that applies to many fields. They felt that so strongly about this that after I had tool room experience, they offered to pay my way through engineering school at a major university. I’ve had to tell engineers that what they were asking me to make would cost astronomical amounts of money, but I was usually able to offer solutions to the problem. Good luck.
very good in depth video to show people who aren't in the machining industry who thing you just draw the part in 3d cad and put the stock in the machine and it makes it. people dont think about the time and prep work it takes to set a machine up to do a job. also shows why it cost so much to only make a few parts vs the cost of 100 or 1000 of the same part. i love when people are like you have the machine and material why cant you just make me a few of these cheaper then i can buy it .....
Thank you for the video. It was fascinating to me to to follow along with you thought process here. I apprenticed under some brilliant tool makers long ago but that was all manual machining, I did a little cnc work but not much. Anyone concerned about material wasting can come shovel out your broken chip pan for you. If the customer wants a solid piece, they get it and they pay for it. I really enjoy you channel and am happy to have watched the videos you had to take down a while back.
Excellent video as usual Peter thanks. I should be starting a night school CAD/CAM course in September all being well, watching your videos got me interested in doing so
Where I work I wish they used solid bar shaft flanges for our screw conveyors. They break at the welds sometimes within days of being put in, then our guys reweld. Much stronger this way and we’d never have to change them. They are never wore out when changed just broken welds.
Learned this in 94 on a Compaq Portable 486/66c running mastercam V5. AutoCad was a dos version a few years before that. Damn that was a long time ago.
4:30 Lotta people view these things through a home-shop lens - I know I've been guilty of that many times. Time isn't accounted for and material is precious, improvising and making do are a virtue and something to be proud of. It is! But business economics are totally different. It's kinda the same as when you've talked about buying the right measuring tool for the job instead of making do with what you have.
You certainly are a wizard with Esprit CAM. It’s excellent high end CAM software. I tried using it back in 2014, but unfortunately to no avail. I went down a different path. Thanks for sharing, it was interesting watching your approach. Cheers Peter 🍻. Aaron
In the past I had some flanged parts of similar dimensions - about a hundred - but it was amazing the amount of materials we went through - old school. Not much you can do ... It is what it is. Sometimes the design has to be what it is.
Great intro. I always was taught: ‘The best weld joint is no weld joint’. Of course the part could be made out of two pieces but as you explain there are many factors driving choices. Any serious customer would not accept any deviation from the drawing, e.g. adding a weld joint. Quality is conformance to specification. The part has to match the drawing. If an alternative avenue was feasible, I’d say this is an interesting part for friction welding.
David wilks is just shaking his head. Hahaha you said tapanning. That’s right...make the tool the others will come. Always been my skool of thought over the last 32 yrs in the industry....cheers
You have a advantage over many new to CNC. You know the language the machine runs on. I see videos on TH-cam where people post cod from cam but don’t understand what it does.
@@somebodyelse6673 I mean they're two different things to think about. A hobbyist has all the time on the world to make something perfectly but a production shop doesn't.
Don't no in the tng but in regular esprit when you were making your turning profile (open chain) if you highlight your first segment answer ok, then go to end segment highlight answer ok it automatically chains it for you. Enjoy your videos!
@@andy091192 I need to work on my selection techniques in Esprit. Sometimes you just start a certain way. It works and never try other methods. I will give it a try. Thanks!
This is bloody fascinating, Peter. As someone who works in software (and a little woodworking in the garage on the weekends) and has no idea about machining, I wondered about welding (as you described). Aside from being an utter pain to prepare two pieces, send them off to be welded, then work them again into the part, is there any practical benefit to the finished part being made from a single piece? Would a welded part be just as good at doing it's job (regardless which method was easiest to make said part)? You mentioned this customer had previously had a welded part fail, but are they just being over-cautious because they've been burned before?
Thanks for sharing. I agree to always adjust drawing dimensions to the mean. I would like you to sometime show how the different modifiers also affect the initial machining process. Like GD&T maximum or least material conditions and regardless of feature size, under ASME Y-14.5 I can't believe how many QA people I've met that don't correctly even understand how to interpret a true position callout without a tolerance, but with a modifier.
I remember reading an article a few years back about how the big aerospace companies were starting to migrate away from casting, forgings, and weldments due to structural inconsistencies. I have done forging and casting work, I could almost always peel similar parts from billet in less time with better tool life, not quite on your scale though
There are always trade offs. With a straight round bar the programming is easer. This saves time if your quantity is only a few parts. Cutting thru scale and roughness of a open die forging takes more time and the material blank costs more not good for my low quantity. Fab construction of two parts welded. Higher cost for the weld prep and welding plus post heat treating. Also the quality test requirements. Again not good for my low quantity. And all of the above takes time I didn’t have. People that make these comments don’t understand what’s required in modern part production.
Spicy cat I think your right. In this case I’m only making six parts 3 sets of two with the same diameter. But even more than that what does that save. I still have to buy the same material and make the tool. It takes a type steady rest I don’t have. (More tooling to make) Very high coolant volume I also don’t have. Than I’m left with how to support a very heavy piece of tube when I part it off. (More tooling) Than what do I do with that piece of heavy wall tube I trepan/part off. I have no use (at least at this time) for it. It just isn’t worth it.
Really appreciated the response to the comments about trepanning, welding, and forging (the last of which I asked about in some detail). Understand your rationale! (Haha I still think someone should figure out how to sell you forged blanks out of a catalog though!)
Here is the quick way of explaining why to make it out of such a large piece. •Forging have to start with existing material of similar size anyway. So you are paying for the material and than forging on top of that is all added cost. •Welding is an added cost and a potential failure point also the time per hour cost. •Trepanning or cutting off excess material is an added time cost due to having to buy and it make tooling you may not have. What it comes down to is the dollar value for the customer. To make this part in a valuable manor without negativity effecting profit margins it is more cost effective to turn it out of one big solid piece. As for waste. Metal waste gets recycled to be made into other other metal products. Your stock has to be bigger than your largest diameter.
I do not understand any of it I watched all of it and whether I know it or not I learned something and there are some things that I learned that I am aware of thank you very much It will surely make things easier if I ever do venture into multi axis machining.
I, for one, asked about trepaning, not thinking about the limitations of the machine or cooling. It always seems like such a shame to turn such big pieces of expensive metal into chips, but I understand that it is not feasible unless many such parts need to be made and one has the resources for a permanent trepaning system.
Thanks for doing this for those of use who are interested. I am surprised by something I saw when you were doing the CAD changes to the model. When you changed the diameter of the shaft you didnt change the radius. I would expect you will have a small step where the old radius doesnt match to the size you changed the diameter to. I may not have described that right. Charles
I like these videos. I know it will get less views, but I appreciate you going through the effort. By the way, did you finish up the mods to your truck?
It is so easy for people who have no idea what is going on to become experts and voice there opinions. What they do not understand is as a business we do what the customer wants and how they want the job done. If we are making a part and the customer says do it they way you think is best then that is different. The bottom line is the customer pays the bill we work for the customer we do what the customer wants.
We made some big parts like these quite alot. The custemer schematic told it to be welded from a shaft and flange but we quotes them alot cheaper with just machining it from single bar. It was alot cheaper. I think thoes where also about 500 kg I never really liked cam for turning. I use fusion All the time on My mill but My turning i just finger cam it 👍
Thanks nikolaiownz! I agree. As for using cam for turning. In my garage on the small Haas lathe I don’t think I have ever used cam software for a program. But with this 5 axis mill turn there are a lot of codes to remember that aren’t necessary on the small machine (Just look at the beginning of the program when I process cod in this video). If you forget one it can be a problem. So for this machine I never manually enter a program unless it’s in the Mazatrol conversational format. But I agree with you about the material. I would rather get paid for roughing than pay a welder to save me time. It’s also easer, faster and less expensive to just machine it out of solid.
@@EdgePrecision yeah i see when you are doing alot of complex parts can is the way. Also i got a mazak mill and I havent used mazatrol once haha. Hows the 640 control when running EIA? My old m32 is terrible. You cant Even see the program and its very clunky to restart and Edit
@@EdgePrecision ok.i was looking at a mazak horisontal but I i am really not to fond of the mazatrol. But I have not used it much other than the old m32 one i got.
@@nikolaiownz the M32 control was a special Mazak control. The newer controls are PC based (run windows system). And even the newer ones than the 640 have USB ports to transfer the programs. On mine I use the network connection. This machine has a network built into it. Anyway all the PC based controls are fine running eia programs.
does your machine have mazitrol or is it strickly an EIA program the reason Im asking is if I buy one of these machines I would like to be able to run basic maching out of mazatrol Great instruction on using Esprie I am learning a lot form you I have really benifited from your thoughts on quoting thanks that is an amazing video as well
Thank You for the detailed instructions on cam side of things! I'm in the process of buying a postprocessor/ cam solution for a machine quite similar to you integrex. Would you go with esprit again or do you have any hot tips to go with that is able to go simultaneous 5 axis machining but still somehow in a decent price range? I mean don't get me wrong, price isnt the only thing to consider but I won't invest 50 grand on a software solution. Greets from Germany btw. Glad you recovered from that covid thing.
When I bought Esprit this was the best solution for the Mazak Integrex. They had worked with Mazak to get things working just right. But everyone’s needs are different. What I would do is to get all the software companies your interested in to come to your shop and demonstrate their product. They will all do that.
@@EdgePrecision thanks for the reply. Yeah that's what I got in mind, two companies are already planning their trip to my place. But today there are so many companies competing in that area, you have to set a rough filter. If you're interested in the machine, it's the top video on my channel. Have a great weekend :)
Walk a mile in another man's shoes. The jobs I have done I would like for everyone to have done them to understand why. I'm not a machinist and I watch your videos, why? because i learn. Why did this part cost me $500? Well here's my answer. Again, walk a mile in other shoes, become humble.
As a former mold builder I often would have split half’s found it much cheaper the machine 1/2 at a time and throw away the other half time is a lot more expensive than this material
I just wanted a clean square surface to start the drill. It is a longish drill so I don't want it wandering to much. But it could be done that way also. This drill isn't strictly a insert drill it has a spade tip in the middle and inserts outside. With a insert only type drill where centering doesn't matter, what you say would be fine. The little bit of low surface footage doesn't seem to be a problem for the tool.
This is a ton of information to take I but well worth it!! Have you tried doing one job in Espirit and in Fusion on the Mazak just to compare the workflow and results?
No but for simple turning like this the Mazatrol would win than possibly Fusion than Esprit. But as the work gets more complicated and add milling. You can reverse this order.
Do you run multiple cad /cam software on your laptops , or do you just stick to Space Claim / Espirit? Also have you ever tried Fusion 360 , and if you did what is your opinion on it ?
I do use Fusion for some things. Not really for work but more hobby things (I have used it in some videos on my channel). I like Fusion. I think the value even if you pay for it is very good. It is capable of doing 99.9% of everything needed in a machine shop. But it wont work for this Mazak Integrex 5 axis mill turn machine as well as Esprit. The simulation is very important for this kind of machine and Fusions isn't good enough. That being said I like the way Fusion does some of its surfacing tool path better than Esprit. The Cad side of Fusion is very good.
I do use fusion in my garage occasionally. Believe it or not it does some of its surfacing tool path easier than Esprit. But it won’t handle what’s needed for this 5 axis mill turn Mazak.
thank you sir we wanna see that you making programming on machine mill for 5 axes we want to learning from you espritcam please make a episode about milling programming
Some people just don’t understand because they are not part of the trade. It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticize, but when your in front of the machine and deadlines it’s another ball game
Pretty cool Peter, I thought the CAM programing would have been more automated I've only done some 2D programing for a plasma but it seems like you are just using the CAD model as snap points for drawing the tool paths. I read the comments, but maybe consider pinning some that keep coming up like welding and trepanning.
It can be more automated if I were to save the processes. Than I could just recall them to the features. As you saw when I did the turning profiles it would generate features instead of the geometry I selected. But than your kind of stuck with what the software does. I want to do things different. So I do it manually.
It would take a little longer than that. This also can be done in a more automated way than I’m showing. But if I did it in the video like that. It wouldn’t show any of the settings of the processes.
Because they model it to fit it’s mating part. In this case I think that may be some bearing race bores minim size. So then they tolerance the drawing for the actual tolerance. It’s a very common thing. They don’t bother to correct the model.
Next, just for fun, you ought to make a musical instrument like a kalimba or hand-pan out of a big chunk of metal. The channels LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER and Wintergaten would both help you and collaborate.
It’s 4140 steel. Once those serrated hard jaws get a grip the part won’t move. But just to be sure I don’t want a gap between the face. Did you see the video where I started with a 2000 lb blank? Same material. Two videos ago.
Just a IT focus point...you try to make sure we dont see your computer folder structure...you are 90% there...blurr out the top section as well, and we cannot make end s of anything in the future 😁
I was mainly interested in the part numbers. In reviewing the video I did miss a few spots. It’s more trying to make videos of real jobs for you guys. But I have to consider the customers. I don’t care about you seeing folder structure.
@@steinarne79 it's just a flange. It's also proprietary. The part CAD model and dimensions are useless without knowing who or what it's for. Using the nomenclature of the part number with enough time in the industry in a geographical area you can often start to discern who it's for which leads to intellectual property and privacy issues.
Have you ever considered cutting the majority of the material off with a band saw? I'd say 4 axial cuts and a few radial cuts that contour to the smaller part.
But than you would be left with roughing down the square left. Also I don’t have a saw large enough. There is a shop down the street from me that could do it easily. But you have already bought the material. Say they would do the sawing for $500 dollars. It is hard on the tool to rough down the square but it could be done. But then we come to the time issue. I have only had the material for a little over a week and am 2/3 of the way done. I would still be waiting if it were being sawed. Time is the main issue. Thanks.
@@EdgePrecision you also are at the mercy of the saw operator and his tolerances. we prefer to do everything in house for that very reason. I would prefer to do the job your way and rough the material off rather than try and turn a square part round.
@@EdgePrecision That makes sense in this context. Just for talking purposes, if you were able to saw it yourself, would you be able to use a milling tool to get the initial roughing, then switch to turning tools after that?
Sorry short of not monetizing the video. I don’t have to much control. You can thank Google. They even started a new policy this week. Their going to take 25% for taxes.
In this case I wasn’t using the tail center for support. So if it did distort after roughing. The finish cuts recut it true. It’s using the tail center that restricts the part from relieving the stress before the finish cuts.
@@mattcaesar5781 I’m not sure what you are referring to. The force of the chuck jaws are bowing the flange end? Or the stress relieving from roughing the bulk of the material away distorting the flange? As far as the roughing as long as it was relieved before the finish cuts. They would refinish it to dimension. The chuck pressure is another thing. In this case that’s not critical. But if it was I would loosen and re tighten the jaws with less pressure. Indicating the part. Or some other thing to solve that issue.
I don't get it Peter? The time it took to play with all those computers.....you coulda programmed that very simple part in mazatrol in 5min....that's what makes a mazak so awesome and the perfect job shop machine! That whole outer profile would only be 1 unit of mazatrol and you could still do all of the edge breaks. But like everything it's just personal preference I guess. All I use is mazatrol and I have macros written for large radi or angles. Although I am curious about esprit since finding correct posts for mazaks can be a pain in fusion. Lol
This is a simple part and you are correct. We have guys here that are quite good with it. But there are things that Mazatrol can’t do, that the cam software can. I knew I would get comments like this. But if I showed a complicated part it would be to long a video and to complicated. Some people would understand but most would not.
@@EdgePrecision I see your point, were I work nobody cares how you do it,,,just get it done! Haha. I work at a rare shop were each guy does his own set up, programming, tooling ,etc. We only use cam for the complex geometry otherwise it's all hand programming.
I sent you a message on Instagram a while back. Are you running into any issues with TNG on the integrex? I'm told my machine may have issues because it's two channels. (Lower turret, Mori NTX)
Why would anyone model a part with the maximum or minimum tolerance included in that feature's dimension? This does not make any sense to me, I model the nominal size I need and send a 3D model with that measurement, otherwise confusion and potentially scrap ensues.
The only mistake i noticed is at 6:08 you can see the customers company name and part file name. Not sure if you want to blank that out or not. You can delete this comment after you read it so others don't see it :D
For this simple part it would. But that wasn’t the purpose of this video. I wanted to pick a simple part to show. It will be easer to understand what I’m doing.
I got Esprit for my mill turn and coming from Fusion 360 I am vehemently displeased with Esprit as far as selecting tool paths, tools, loading the tools into the machine, loading the part. I really wish fusion could control a twin turret, steadyrest, and tailstock. The $25k pricetag of Esprit was hardly worth it.
I have used both and for this machine fusion is not as good. In fact it won’t do some things.I don’t agree. The simulation in fusion is not good enough.
@@EdgePrecision If fusion can't run my Okuma, then I doubt it can run your integrex. One advantage you is the single tool turret. It's not fun loading tools into a turret and selecting stickout. You know how when you're putting the part in the machine, and you click on the back face, then Ctrl click on the jaws and offset the shift distance. You can't do that with the tools. I'm not going to back fusions simulation, btw. But their toolpath menus are nice and neat. You don't have make features and that's probably the biggest advantage for fusion.
@@micahhunter2706 there are videos on Esprits web site that explain how to do it. But basically you define a tool/ fixture mounting plane on all you turret positions. That on the tool blocks or live tool holders you define a mounting plane. Than on them you define another tool mounting plane. This is oversimplifying it. But after you do that you can select a turret location and say a tool block or spindle. It will automatically snap to the turret at that location. Than select a tool on top it will automatically snap to the block. Look in my video at the clip where I drag the tools to the setup. Look at the tools you will see what’s called adapters. Now you can stack those up as many as you need. Than there’s a tool on the adapter. This is to complicated to completely describe in a comment. Go to Esprits web site and watch the videos on this or ask support to send you the links. Once you properly define your tool spindles blocks and tools. You will never want Fusions tool setup. You do need models of all your tool elements. They can usually be downloaded. I have also modeled my own.
I still don't get why you created new geometry in Esprit after you imported the solid model. And to the people who wonder why this wasn't done in two pieces. Peter makes parts for the oil fields. A day down costs a lot more than the extra few hundred pounds of material used. And I don't see how it would be more economical either. Now you have to make two different parts, 4 setups instead of 2, twice the amount of programming time. And then it must be sent out to be welded which means a few more days of waiting.
The reason I defined new geometry is I wanted to do the machining in a specific way and order. If I just let the software do it it may not be the way I want. Your right about the welding if I spend the time preparing the parts than send it to a welder. I would rather make the money than the welder. Yes all these ideas can save me time but all these people don’t work for free.
@@EdgePrecision Peter, don't you think it would be easier to just draw the 2d profile in Esprit instead of importing the solid file and then defining a new profile?
@@loukola5353 It’s possible but it would take more time. This demonstration is on a very simple part to give you a idea how it works. Also if as we checked the model is correct it reduces the possibility of error. To be able to compare to the model. I didn’t mention in the video. But if the tool path cuts into the model the software will detect it as well.
it's an arrow in the ass when engineers don't draw in the middle of the tolerance, I hate having to sit and do their job,, It's always you who becomes the idiot, they don't understand that you actually have to sit and draw their drawing once more and how long does it take to fix all their mistakes, I have started sending the file back or they have to pay for the time it takes and redraw it,, next time it is drawn in the middle
Not as much as you would think. It also depends. I have a video with 1.5 million views that has made less than this video already has with less than 2000 views. It’s hard to figure.
This is the thing. Some people just think you pull out your mig gun and weld it. No it has to be heated to a temp and kept there while welding. Than post heat treated. Than heat treated to bring it to the original spec. This also has to be tested with a sample to certify it. It costs more than wasting the material on turning the bar.
I really appreciate your first six minutes. In my inhouse machining I often face the same thing - it's more efficient to cut something larger from stock to start with to make the whole part and let the inserts pay the price. Something came up today wherein I will start with a piece of 3" and have maybe 15% of the material remaining. The chip barrels fill but the part is uniform with zero potential problems from any shortcuts. I know what you are saying yet it's nice to hear someone else say it.
If you have few parts to make, machining from billet is indeed more cost efficient than dealing with the tooling and effort of setting up a more complicated process.
I don’t usually comment on anything on TH-cam. I have been machining for about 25 years. Most of what I see is people learning and trying to teach at the same time. That’s ok with me, but that has to be in context. On your page we get to learn from experience. Thank you and keep up the good work.
I normally just watch the CAM operations in your videos, but after watching this, I can now appreciate the details that have to be considered for the work flow / preparation that goes into the part even though the client provided a CAD model and dwg.
This model was simple. It takes more time usually. Some models have to be repaired before they can be used. They really should be a solid. Some models come in as a bunch of surfaces.
@@EdgePrecision ryyryryryryryrry
OMG, I don't know how many times I've tried to explain that it's not always about the material you are wasting. There's more to it than that.
Use a cnmm insert rhough that down done!
it's not even being wasted because it's all recycled anyways.
Chris, Edge Precision and Metal Raymond are all craftsmen.
@@SuperAWaC the money's wasted cause now you get 5 cents a pound. unless of course you charge the customer for the 12" round.
@@muckit606 Customer always gets charged for material.
I think all the job shop machinists understood why it was being done that way. People, hobbyists mostly, tend to throw out ideas that they've seen on TH-cam or Instagram, without really understanding the economics of job shop work. They don't understand that, a lot of the time, you have to work with tooling and machine capabilities. Your content is great and I've followed since you had like 400 subscribers. Keep 'em coming man.
Thanks Michael, Yes I am trying to make people understand. I think many people are interested and want to comment. To participate if you will. I do appreciate all comments.
Yes, argee fully. It is the case in a lot of job shops you go to battle with the army you have, not the one you want or need to do the absolute best job.
Been Machining 3 weeks straight no day off and here I am on my only day off watching Ypur maching videos I love this trade thanks for all the knowledge you share
Coming from Fusion, this is different. Thank you very much for taking so much time to film, explain and edit videos!
Man, this is great stuff. I've never seen this side of things. I appreciate you putting this out there. Your videos are among the best on TH-cam.
Peter you don't have to have second thought on speaking and sharing stuff like this. people who watch your stuff really like to see how you do it. Thanks as always.
If the customer wants something a certain way you do it that way. Idk why its so hard for people to understand. And its not like we throw the chips away, they will get recycled. And the customer is paying for it.
Scrap steel is worthless here - my steel goes in the trash LOL
Idk what kinda jobs you get to work on but we quote a job and of we go over the quote that's on us.
How do y'all handle pricing? Do customers just send you work and have no idea what it'll cost?
@@rickfinsta2951 idk around were i work its not worthless and i guarentee hes not throwing his chips away its called scrap price for a reason.
@@spazzywhitebelt yea but if your doing work for a huge company like gm or ge or any large company the and the engineers want something a certain way, then you do it just how they want. Sometimes they don't sell the stock close to the size you need so you have to rough some extra off. Yea not every customer is like this but you quote work for how the customer wants it done. If you can make good money off of the job who care if you have to ruff off alot of material the customer knows that and thats what they expect.
@@DRrandomman22 yup, I haven't seen the whole video so didn't know the context of your comment. It'd sure be nice to just do time and materials instead of spending time quoting a job that you may not end up getting haha.
Sometimes we make away like bandits on jobs and other times it's like a bandit made their way through our shop once all's said and done haha. Just keep chugging along and learn
Thanks Peter, outstanding level of clarity and knowledge, you have a very good way of explaining the details involved in these jobs. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Have a nice weekend.
It is a bit counterintuitive that this much roughing is the solution here. You did a really good job explaining it. I am studying to be an engineer, and your videos show me a lot of things I should consider when designing stuff.
As a welder and machinist I want to offer you some advice based on real world experience. Learn within your engineering discipline how what you design is going to be manufactured and built. Understanding how things are manufactured and the limitations and capabilities of that will help your engineering career.
If every engineer was required to spend a 6-12 month stint working on, building, or otherwise operating the equipment they design, life would be so much easier for everyone involved.
@@WilliamPayneNZ Engineer and hobby machinist here: You are absolutely right. Sadly the manufacturing side of engineering doesn`t get enough attention at the universities (my observation/opinion). I my opinion it is essential to know how things are fanufactured because otherwise you really don‘t know how to design things properly.
Mister Muster. People replying to your comment are spot on. I was told by some old engineers long ago that the best engineers were experienced machinists first. The context was manufacturing engineering but I’d bet that applies to many fields. They felt that so strongly about this that after I had tool room experience, they offered to pay my way through engineering school at a major university. I’ve had to tell engineers that what they were asking me to make would cost astronomical amounts of money, but I was usually able to offer solutions to the problem. Good luck.
very good in depth video to show people who aren't in the machining industry who thing you just draw the part in 3d cad and put the stock in the machine and it makes it. people dont think about the time and prep work it takes to set a machine up to do a job. also shows why it cost so much to only make a few parts vs the cost of 100 or 1000 of the same part. i love when people are like you have the machine and material why cant you just make me a few of these cheaper then i can buy it .....
Enjoy your videos from a Cnc programmer and tool maker perspective. Easy to follow along and I have also learned a few nifty things. Keep it up.
Good Vid , my take is on this is what ever cam soft you use , you better know it well + experience and after that nothing can stop you.
Thank you for the video. It was fascinating to me to to follow along with you thought process here. I apprenticed under some brilliant tool makers long ago but that was all manual machining, I did a little cnc work but not much. Anyone concerned about material wasting can come shovel out your broken chip pan for you. If the customer wants a solid piece, they get it and they pay for it. I really enjoy you channel and am happy to have watched the videos you had to take down a while back.
That never ending war between engineers and bean counters…material tooling time…an age old battle that will never be won
Thanks for the reasoning why this is the best way for the job. Helps those of us interested but ignorant to solve a little bit of the ignorance.
really nice to see these steps..... want so see more :-) good job
Excellent video as usual Peter thanks. I should be starting a night school CAD/CAM course in September all being well, watching your videos got me interested in doing so
Where I work I wish they used solid bar shaft flanges for our screw conveyors. They break at the welds sometimes within days of being put in, then our guys reweld. Much stronger this way and we’d never have to change them. They are never wore out when changed just broken welds.
Learned this in 94 on a Compaq Portable 486/66c running mastercam V5. AutoCad was a dos version a few years before that. Damn that was a long time ago.
4:30 Lotta people view these things through a home-shop lens - I know I've been guilty of that many times. Time isn't accounted for and material is precious, improvising and making do are a virtue and something to be proud of. It is! But business economics are totally different. It's kinda the same as when you've talked about buying the right measuring tool for the job instead of making do with what you have.
You certainly are a wizard with Esprit CAM. It’s excellent high end CAM software. I tried using it back in 2014, but unfortunately to no avail. I went down a different path. Thanks for sharing, it was interesting watching your approach. Cheers Peter 🍻. Aaron
In the past I had some flanged parts of similar dimensions - about a hundred - but it was amazing the amount of materials we went through - old school. Not much you can do ... It is what it is. Sometimes the design has to be what it is.
Great intro. I always was taught: ‘The best weld joint is no weld joint’.
Of course the part could be made out of two pieces but as you explain there are many factors driving choices. Any serious customer would not accept any deviation from the drawing, e.g. adding a weld joint. Quality is conformance to specification. The part has to match the drawing.
If an alternative avenue was feasible, I’d say this is an interesting part for friction welding.
Not taking anything away from the others that make machining videos, but I enjoy this channel best.
Thanks Robert that means a lot.
👍 just a great video again. Thanks from the UK. 🔩🔨🔧
Thank-you for the explanation about why you went with solid vs welded or forged
David wilks is just shaking his head. Hahaha you said tapanning. That’s right...make the tool the others will come. Always been my skool of thought over the last 32 yrs in the industry....cheers
That software is incredible! Im stuck over here in the dark ages programming everything we manufacture long-hand
You have a advantage over many new to CNC. You know the language the machine runs on. I see videos on TH-cam where people post cod from cam but don’t understand what it does.
There's making parts and there's making money, and the two are separate things.
Amen dude
In a machine shop, how do you make money without making parts?
@@somebodyelse6673 I mean they're two different things to think about. A hobbyist has all the time on the world to make something perfectly but a production shop doesn't.
Don't no in the tng but in regular esprit when you were making your turning profile (open chain) if you highlight your first segment answer ok, then go to end segment highlight answer ok it automatically chains it for you. Enjoy your videos!
I need to work with TNG selection methods. I will try this thanks!
I dont know if its was mentionned, you can also use the turning feature detection and change starts and ends points for OD and ID profile. :)
@@andy091192 I need to work on my selection techniques in Esprit. Sometimes you just start a certain way. It works and never try other methods. I will give it a try. Thanks!
lovely explaining of your procedure thank you
This is bloody fascinating, Peter. As someone who works in software (and a little woodworking in the garage on the weekends) and has no idea about machining, I wondered about welding (as you described). Aside from being an utter pain to prepare two pieces, send them off to be welded, then work them again into the part, is there any practical benefit to the finished part being made from a single piece? Would a welded part be just as good at doing it's job (regardless which method was easiest to make said part)? You mentioned this customer had previously had a welded part fail, but are they just being over-cautious because they've been burned before?
Good to see the hows and whys.
Thanks for sharing. I agree to always adjust drawing dimensions to the mean. I would like you to sometime show how the different modifiers also affect the initial machining process. Like GD&T maximum or least material conditions and regardless of feature size, under ASME Y-14.5
I can't believe how many QA people I've met that don't correctly even understand how to interpret a true position callout without a tolerance, but with a modifier.
Excellent video. You sure do like to keep us guessing on those slo-mo shots. I thought something terrible was going to happen. ;)
I remember reading an article a few years back about how the big aerospace companies were starting to migrate away from casting, forgings, and weldments due to structural inconsistencies. I have done forging and casting work, I could almost always peel similar parts from billet in less time with better tool life, not quite on your scale though
There are always trade offs. With a straight round bar the programming is easer. This saves time if your quantity is only a few parts. Cutting thru scale and roughness of a open die forging takes more time and the material blank costs more not good for my low quantity. Fab construction of two parts welded. Higher cost for the weld prep and welding plus post heat treating. Also the quality test requirements. Again not good for my low quantity. And all of the above takes time I didn’t have. People that make these comments don’t understand what’s required in modern part production.
Indeed making a trepanning tool might take more time than you save. Good point.
Spicy cat I think your right. In this case I’m only making six parts 3 sets of two with the same diameter. But even more than that what does that save. I still have to buy the same material and make the tool. It takes a type steady rest I don’t have. (More tooling to make) Very high coolant volume I also don’t have. Than I’m left with how to support a very heavy piece of tube when I part it off. (More tooling) Than what do I do with that piece of heavy wall tube I trepan/part off. I have no use (at least at this time) for it. It just isn’t worth it.
Really appreciated the response to the comments about trepanning, welding, and forging (the last of which I asked about in some detail). Understand your rationale! (Haha I still think someone should figure out how to sell you forged blanks out of a catalog though!)
Here is the quick way of explaining why to make it out of such a large piece.
•Forging have to start with existing material of similar size anyway. So you are paying for the material and than forging on top of that is all added cost.
•Welding is an added cost and a potential failure point also the time per hour cost.
•Trepanning or cutting off excess material is an added time cost due to having to buy and it make tooling you may not have.
What it comes down to is the dollar value for the customer. To make this part in a valuable manor without negativity effecting profit margins it is more cost effective to turn it out of one big solid piece.
As for waste. Metal waste gets recycled to be made into other other metal products.
Your stock has to be bigger than your largest diameter.
I do not understand any of it I watched all of it and whether I know it or not I learned something and there are some things that I learned that I am aware of thank you very much
It will surely make things easier if I ever do venture into multi axis machining.
Very interesting and well explained, thanks.
Great video. I've been wanting to learn Esprit.
I, for one, asked about trepaning, not thinking about the limitations of the machine or cooling. It always seems like such a shame to turn such big pieces of expensive metal into chips, but I understand that it is not feasible unless many such parts need to be made and one has the resources for a permanent trepaning system.
Thanks for doing this for those of use who are interested. I am surprised by something I saw when you were doing the CAD changes to the model. When you changed the diameter of the shaft you didnt change the radius. I would expect you will have a small step where the old radius doesnt match to the size you changed the diameter to. I may not have described that right. Charles
No with this software it moves the radius with the change.
I like these videos. I know it will get less views, but I appreciate you going through the effort. By the way, did you finish up the mods to your truck?
It is so easy for people who have no idea what is going on to become experts and voice there opinions. What they do not understand is as a business we do what the customer wants and how they want the job done. If we are making a part and the customer says do it they way you think is best then that is different. The bottom line is the customer pays the bill we work for the customer we do what the customer wants.
Great vid
Edge precision what is the most user-friendly type of CAD/CAM for a beginner? I would like to figure out how to use it and know where to start.
I would think Fusion would be good. There are many tutorials on TH-cam on how to use it.
We made some big parts like these quite alot. The custemer schematic told it to be welded from a shaft and flange but we quotes them alot cheaper with just machining it from single bar. It was alot cheaper. I think thoes where also about 500 kg
I never really liked cam for turning. I use fusion All the time on My mill but My turning i just finger cam it 👍
Thanks nikolaiownz! I agree. As for using cam for turning. In my garage on the small Haas lathe I don’t think I have ever used cam software for a program. But with this 5 axis mill turn there are a lot of codes to remember that aren’t necessary on the small machine (Just look at the beginning of the program when I process cod in this video). If you forget one it can be a problem. So for this machine I never manually enter a program unless it’s in the Mazatrol conversational format. But I agree with you about the material. I would rather get paid for roughing than pay a welder to save me time. It’s also easer, faster and less expensive to just machine it out of solid.
@@EdgePrecision yeah i see when you are doing alot of complex parts can is the way. Also i got a mazak mill and I havent used mazatrol once haha. Hows the 640 control when running EIA? My old m32 is terrible. You cant Even see the program and its very clunky to restart and Edit
@@nikolaiownz the 640 control runs a eia program fine. In fact I pretty much only run Mazatrol to bore chuck jaws.
@@EdgePrecision ok.i was looking at a mazak horisontal but I i am really not to fond of the mazatrol. But I have not used it much other than the old m32 one i got.
@@nikolaiownz the M32 control was a special Mazak control. The newer controls are PC based (run windows system). And even the newer ones than the 640 have USB ports to transfer the programs. On mine I use the network connection. This machine has a network built into it. Anyway all the PC based controls are fine running eia programs.
does your machine have mazitrol or is it strickly an EIA program the reason Im asking is if I buy one of these machines I would like to be able to run basic maching out of mazatrol
Great instruction on using Esprie I am learning a lot form you I have really benifited from your thoughts on quoting thanks that is an amazing video as well
It has a Mazatrol. But I very seldom run Mazatrol Programs.
Thank You for the detailed instructions on cam side of things! I'm in the process of buying a postprocessor/ cam solution for a machine quite similar to you integrex. Would you go with esprit again or do you have any hot tips to go with that is able to go simultaneous 5 axis machining but still somehow in a decent price range? I mean don't get me wrong, price isnt the only thing to consider but I won't invest 50 grand on a software solution. Greets from Germany btw. Glad you recovered from that covid thing.
When I bought Esprit this was the best solution for the Mazak Integrex. They had worked with Mazak to get things working just right. But everyone’s needs are different. What I would do is to get all the software companies your interested in to come to your shop and demonstrate their product. They will all do that.
@@EdgePrecision thanks for the reply. Yeah that's what I got in mind, two companies are already planning their trip to my place. But today there are so many companies competing in that area, you have to set a rough filter. If you're interested in the machine, it's the top video on my channel. Have a great weekend :)
Walk a mile in another man's shoes. The jobs I have done I would like for everyone to have done them to understand why. I'm not a machinist and I watch your videos, why? because i learn. Why did this part cost me $500? Well here's my answer. Again, walk a mile in other shoes, become humble.
As a former mold builder I often would have split half’s found it much cheaper the machine 1/2 at a time and throw away the other half time is a lot more expensive than this material
Awesome videos! One question :why won't you drill the hole first so that the facing tool doesn't cut at 0 speed in the center?
I just wanted a clean square surface to start the drill. It is a longish drill so I don't want it wandering to much. But it could be done that way also. This drill isn't strictly a insert drill it has a spade tip in the middle and inserts outside. With a insert only type drill where centering doesn't matter, what you say would be fine. The little bit of low surface footage doesn't seem to be a problem for the tool.
espritcam 非常的棒👍🏼
This is a ton of information to take I but well worth it!! Have you tried doing one job in Espirit and in Fusion on the Mazak just to compare the workflow and results?
No but for simple turning like this the Mazatrol would win than possibly Fusion than Esprit. But as the work gets more complicated and add milling. You can reverse this order.
Its all about that the customer wants...they are paying for it
Do you run multiple cad /cam software on your laptops , or do you just stick to Space Claim / Espirit?
Also have you ever tried Fusion 360 , and if you did what is your opinion on it ?
I do use Fusion for some things. Not really for work but more hobby things (I have used it in some videos on my channel). I like Fusion. I think the value even if you pay for it is very good. It is capable of doing 99.9% of everything needed in a machine shop. But it wont work for this Mazak Integrex 5 axis mill turn machine as well as Esprit. The simulation is very important for this kind of machine and Fusions isn't good enough. That being said I like the way Fusion does some of its surfacing tool path better than Esprit. The Cad side of Fusion is very good.
@@EdgePrecision I agree with you on the value , for a complete cad/cam package you just can't beat that price
very good video, you have a very good programming method! I program with 360 fusion in my workshop 😄 have you already tested?
I do use fusion in my garage occasionally. Believe it or not it does some of its surfacing tool path easier than Esprit. But it won’t handle what’s needed for this 5 axis mill turn Mazak.
thanks a lot..
thank you sir we wanna see that you making programming on machine mill for 5 axes we want to learning from you espritcam please make a episode about milling programming
Some people just don’t understand because they are not part of the trade. It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticize, but when your in front of the machine and deadlines it’s another ball game
Even a lot of people in the trade don't understand.
Pretty cool Peter, I thought the CAM programing would have been more automated I've only done some 2D programing for a plasma but it seems like you are just using the CAD model as snap points for drawing the tool paths. I read the comments, but maybe consider pinning some that keep coming up like welding and trepanning.
It can be more automated if I were to save the processes. Than I could just recall them to the features. As you saw when I did the turning profiles it would generate features instead of the geometry I selected. But than your kind of stuck with what the software does. I want to do things different. So I do it manually.
Why don't you program such simple contours in Mazatrol?
You only need about 2 minutes for the program.
Greetings from Bavaria.
It would take a little longer than that. This also can be done in a more automated way than I’m showing. But if I did it in the video like that. It wouldn’t show any of the settings of the processes.
Pete a interesting fellow to watch his video's his name is DAVID WILLKS Trepaning .
Yes I subscribe to his channel a while back.
o yes at the end the customer knows the best way for him
Why would someone create a model at the maximum tolerance instead of the actual dimension of the part?
Because they model it to fit it’s mating part. In this case I think that may be some bearing race bores minim size. So then they tolerance the drawing for the actual tolerance. It’s a very common thing. They don’t bother to correct the model.
Next, just for fun, you ought to make a musical instrument like a kalimba or hand-pan out of a big chunk of metal. The channels LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER and Wintergaten would both help you and collaborate.
I do like Wintergaten. I have a few times offered to make some parts. But I think they like to stay closer to home for things.
The squeaky drill just had to be in the video, it just had to. haha
What about trepanning these parts? That saves lots of time and material. Then part off at the required length. Check out David Wilkes channel.
Part off a 900lb part? Are you insane?
thx
Why not use forged steel??
Did you even watch? He explained why 🤦♂️
Make sure you dont throw that blank out your chuck now damn. That doest look like almost 2 cubic feet, what kind da metal is it?
It’s 4140 steel. Once those serrated hard jaws get a grip the part won’t move. But just to be sure I don’t want a gap between the face. Did you see the video where I started with a 2000 lb blank? Same material. Two videos ago.
Just a IT focus point...you try to make sure we dont see your computer folder structure...you are 90% there...blurr out the top section as well, and we cannot make end s of anything in the future 😁
I was mainly interested in the part numbers. In reviewing the video I did miss a few spots. It’s more trying to make videos of real jobs for you guys. But I have to consider the customers. I don’t care about you seeing folder structure.
@@EdgePrecision Wow, we can see all the dimmentions..but the parts number is the issue. I learn something new every day !
@@steinarne79 it's just a flange. It's also proprietary. The part CAD model and dimensions are useless without knowing who or what it's for. Using the nomenclature of the part number with enough time in the industry in a geographical area you can often start to discern who it's for which leads to intellectual property and privacy issues.
Have you ever considered cutting the majority of the material off with a band saw? I'd say 4 axial cuts and a few radial cuts that contour to the smaller part.
But than you would be left with roughing down the square left. Also I don’t have a saw large enough. There is a shop down the street from me that could do it easily. But you have already bought the material. Say they would do the sawing for $500 dollars. It is hard on the tool to rough down the square but it could be done. But then we come to the time issue. I have only had the material for a little over a week and am 2/3 of the way done. I would still be waiting if it were being sawed. Time is the main issue. Thanks.
@@EdgePrecision you also are at the mercy of the saw operator and his tolerances. we prefer to do everything in house for that very reason. I would prefer to do the job your way and rough the material off rather than try and turn a square part round.
@@jdshqs The saw shop I speak of is very good but I really don’t see any advantage. I would rathe get paid than the saw guy.
@@EdgePrecision understood and agree. Love your channel, wish I lived over your way so I could learn from you.
@@EdgePrecision That makes sense in this context. Just for talking purposes, if you were able to saw it yourself, would you be able to use a milling tool to get the initial roughing, then switch to turning tools after that?
My only complaint is the amount of ads in this video... holy engineer batman that’s a lot of ads
Sorry short of not monetizing the video. I don’t have to much control. You can thank Google. They even started a new policy this week. Their going to take 25% for taxes.
How much do you get for the chips recycled? Locally here the recycle places pay so little my chips go out in the trash.
For steel shavings around 2-3 cents a pound.
How much did it pull after cutting all that material off. Figure it would stress relieve a little
In this case I wasn’t using the tail center for support. So if it did distort after roughing. The finish cuts recut it true. It’s using the tail center that restricts the part from relieving the stress before the finish cuts.
@@EdgePrecision i was talking about the face in the chuck. Did it bow at all just curious
@@mattcaesar5781 I’m not sure what you are referring to. The force of the chuck jaws are bowing the flange end? Or the stress relieving from roughing the bulk of the material away distorting the flange? As far as the roughing as long as it was relieved before the finish cuts. They would refinish it to dimension. The chuck pressure is another thing. In this case that’s not critical. But if it was I would loosen and re tighten the jaws with less pressure. Indicating the part. Or some other thing to solve that issue.
I don't get it Peter? The time it took to play with all those computers.....you coulda programmed that very simple part in mazatrol in 5min....that's what makes a mazak so awesome and the perfect job shop machine! That whole outer profile would only be 1 unit of mazatrol and you could still do all of the edge breaks. But like everything it's just personal preference I guess. All I use is mazatrol and I have macros written for large radi or angles. Although I am curious about esprit since finding correct posts for mazaks can be a pain in fusion. Lol
This is a simple part and you are correct. We have guys here that are quite good with it. But there are things that Mazatrol can’t do, that the cam software can. I knew I would get comments like this. But if I showed a complicated part it would be to long a video and to complicated. Some people would understand but most would not.
@@EdgePrecision I see your point, were I work nobody cares how you do it,,,just get it done! Haha. I work at a rare shop were each guy does his own set up, programming, tooling ,etc. We only use cam for the complex geometry otherwise it's all hand programming.
I sent you a message on Instagram a while back. Are you running into any issues with TNG on the integrex? I'm told my machine may have issues because it's two channels. (Lower turret, Mori NTX)
28:25
A software quirk in Esprit? You don't say! 😜
Is this comment coming from personal experience perhaps?
Don’t worry about the mule just load the wagon
Pleas make pics from the insert that are you use
I will show that in the machining part. Thanks!
on behalf of all of us that ask dumb questions...sorry!! and thanks your patience with us!!
Why would anyone model a part with the maximum or minimum tolerance included in that feature's dimension? This does not make any sense to me, I model the nominal size I need and send a 3D model with that measurement, otherwise confusion and potentially scrap ensues.
The only mistake i noticed is at 6:08 you can see the customers company name and part file name. Not sure if you want to blank that out or not. You can delete this comment after you read it so others don't see it :D
Why not just program in mazatrol? Seems like it would be faster.
For this simple part it would. But that wasn’t the purpose of this video. I wanted to pick a simple part to show. It will be easer to understand what I’m doing.
В Solid Works работаете?
Программное обеспечение САПР, которое я использую, называется SpaceClaim.
I got Esprit for my mill turn and coming from Fusion 360 I am vehemently displeased with Esprit as far as selecting tool paths, tools, loading the tools into the machine, loading the part. I really wish fusion could control a twin turret, steadyrest, and tailstock. The $25k pricetag of Esprit was hardly worth it.
I have used both and for this machine fusion is not as good. In fact it won’t do some things.I don’t agree. The simulation in fusion is not good enough.
@@EdgePrecision If fusion can't run my Okuma, then I doubt it can run your integrex. One advantage you is the single tool turret. It's not fun loading tools into a turret and selecting stickout. You know how when you're putting the part in the machine, and you click on the back face, then Ctrl click on the jaws and offset the shift distance. You can't do that with the tools. I'm not going to back fusions simulation, btw. But their toolpath menus are nice and neat. You don't have make features and that's probably the biggest advantage for fusion.
@@micahhunter2706 are you using Esprit TNG? If so you don’t have you turret and tool models properly defined.
I have TNG. How do you know I don't have my turret and tools properly defined?
@@micahhunter2706 there are videos on Esprits web site that explain how to do it. But basically you define a tool/ fixture mounting plane on all you turret positions. That on the tool blocks or live tool holders you define a mounting plane. Than on them you define another tool mounting plane. This is oversimplifying it. But after you do that you can select a turret location and say a tool block or spindle. It will automatically snap to the turret at that location. Than select a tool on top it will automatically snap to the block. Look in my video at the clip where I drag the tools to the setup. Look at the tools you will see what’s called adapters. Now you can stack those up as many as you need. Than there’s a tool on the adapter. This is to complicated to completely describe in a comment. Go to Esprits web site and watch the videos on this or ask support to send you the links. Once you properly define your tool spindles blocks and tools. You will never want Fusions tool setup. You do need models of all your tool elements. They can usually be downloaded. I have also modeled my own.
Second one here I love your videos
3rd but are you committed for the next 51 minutes lol
WHY DONT YOU MAKE IT OUT OF TWO PIECES????
haha nah just joking, glad your OK and still making videos peter.
I still don't get why you created new geometry in Esprit after you imported the solid model.
And to the people who wonder why this wasn't done in two pieces. Peter makes parts for the oil fields. A day down costs a lot more than the extra few hundred pounds of material used. And I don't see how it would be more economical either.
Now you have to make two different parts, 4 setups instead of 2, twice the amount of programming time. And then it must be sent out to be welded which means a few more days of waiting.
The reason I defined new geometry is I wanted to do the machining in a specific way and order. If I just let the software do it it may not be the way I want. Your right about the welding if I spend the time preparing the parts than send it to a welder. I would rather make the money than the welder. Yes all these ideas can save me time but all these people don’t work for free.
@@EdgePrecision Peter, don't you think it would be easier to just draw the 2d profile in Esprit instead of importing the solid file and then defining a new profile?
@@loukola5353 It’s possible but it would take more time. This demonstration is on a very simple part to give you a idea how it works. Also if as we checked the model is correct it reduces the possibility of error. To be able to compare to the model. I didn’t mention in the video. But if the tool path cuts into the model the software will detect it as well.
it's an arrow in the ass when engineers don't draw in the middle of the tolerance, I hate having to sit and do their job,, It's always you who becomes the idiot, they don't understand that you actually have to sit and draw their drawing once more and how long does it take to fix all their mistakes, I have started sending the file back or they have to pay for the time it takes and redraw it,, next time it is drawn in the middle
If that's the way the person paying wants it..... Charge for it and do it.
A million views!! Dam thats good money on yt ...
Not as much as you would think. It also depends. I have a video with 1.5 million views that has made less than this video already has with less than 2000 views. It’s hard to figure.
@@EdgePrecision ive seen people claim $1k - $4k per million views. Good job going over a million thou.
The 1000-2000 is possible if the advertisers like you video. But now TH-cam has started a new policy. They are taking 25% for taxes.
@@EdgePrecision not cool.
Getting ready for the new tax legislation lots of countries are starting to charge on social media platforms
Pass on welding 4140
This is the thing. Some people just think you pull out your mig gun and weld it. No it has to be heated to a temp and kept there while welding. Than post heat treated. Than heat treated to bring it to the original spec. This also has to be tested with a sample to certify it. It costs more than wasting the material on turning the bar.
Hiya